The Ed Show for Thursday, April 16th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Thursday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: April 16, 2015
Guest: Karen Desoto, Thomas Mesereau, Rosa Delauro, Larry Cohen, Gordon
Johnson, Mark Leno, Gregory Conley, Dan Price
ED SCHULTZ, "THE ED SHOW" HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the
Ed Show live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota.
Let`s get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Tonight, new allegations out of Tulsa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m looking for walk (inaudible) falsified.
SCHULTZ: Plus, Clinton`s stance on trade.
That is the story that will affect the most workers in this country.
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. SECRETARY OF STATE: Americans and their family need
SCHULTZ: Later, Christie`s tired old ideas.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: So it`s OK, I`m fine with exactly
what I`m right now because I haven`t change.
SCHULTZ: And, claim-broiled (ph) fiction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.
This is a story that should trouble the entire country.
We hear so much about community policing, we hear so much about there so
much pressure on budgets on the local level. Well, this is how you don`t
There was a new development tonight out of Oklahoma involving the shooting
of an unarmed black man, I`m sure you`ve seen the tape.
The Tulsa World newspaper says that the county sheriff`s office forge
training records for the 73-year-old volunteer reserve deputy. The Tulsa
World is citing multiple unnamed sources in the report. The deputy shot
and killed Eric Harris.
Retired Insurance Executive Robert Bates is charge with second degree
manslaughter for the April 2nd shooting of Harris. Bates was part of an
undercover operation which was caught on video, there it is.
Bates` claim is that, well, he made a mistake, he thought he`s handgun was
actually his Taser.
Now, the wealthy volunteers training records are being called into
question. The newspaper is reporting before the shooting supervisors were
ordered to give Robert Bates, "Credit for training, field training, he
never took and firearm certifications, he should have not received".
Well, the newspaper also reports at least three of Bates` supervisors were
transferred after refusing to sign off on his state required training.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZIVA BRANSTETTER, TULSA WORLD EDITOR: We begun hearing right away after
the shooting, actually I`ve heard it several years ago in connection with
the same individual. But we -- several reporters heard this inside and
outside the Tulsa World repeatedly. And so, we began to interview the
sources and we had -- we felt like enough sources, four to five people, you
know, after a while they`re saying the same thing. We also have documents
that corroborate this information.
So basically the information was that supervisors were told to sign off in
the training that he had not done the required number of hours and they
refuse, and we`re transferred, not necessarily disappointed but transferred
to less desirable assignments. And then a handgun instructor was also
transferred when he refuse to sign off on the handgun course (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: NBC news has not independently confirmed the Tulsa World`s
report. There was no doubt their putting their credibility on the line.
Bates` attorney sent a statement to MSNBC that a saying in part, he
received substantial training in house and at seminars, and training
sessions out-of-state, the suggestion that the training was fabricated in
The sheriff`s office told NBC news, "The media outlet that is putting that
information out is using unconfirmed sources and also relying on anonymity.
We don`t respond to rumor."
The sheriff`s office has confirmed to NBC, there is an independent internal
review of its deputy reserve program. The NBC affiliate in Tulsa confirms
Bates donated more than $2,000 to the sheriff`s reelection campaign.
The Harris family is questioning Bates` role in the sting operation
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD SMOLLEN III, HARRIS FAMILY ATTORNEY: The message the sends is as
long as you have plenty of money, you can play sheriff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Bates has turned himself into authorities on Tuesday and
immediately posted bail of $25,000. He has not yet entered a plea.
Get your cellphones out, we want to know think tonight.
Tonight`s question, "Should any police volunteer be given a handgun?" Go
to polls.msnbc.com/ed, you can cast your vote there. We`ll bring the
results later on in the show.
But this is a classic story about community policing, how far do you go
with it? It`s also the rich can pay to play in our society, that`s the new
America that we have out there.
This is about tight budgets, this is about not community policing or
protecting the community. This is a rich who donated who work his way into
a position of authority, a position of authority, authority is a hell of a
I believe the Tulsa World story, I do. Because I can envision, I can
imagine someone saying, "Hey, I`m going to give these documents, you
reporters at the newspaper, but don`t put my name to it because I don`t
want to be targeted later on but this is how it`s coming down."
So the Tulsa World, think about this, they`re putting their entire
business, and their credibility, and their future on the line, takes a lot
of guts to do this kind of reporting as I see it.
I`m joined tonight by Karen DeSoto Defense Attorney. former Prosecutor and
Professor of Political Science at New Jersey City University, also with us
tonight Thomas Mesereau who is a Criminal Defense Attorney and Dr. James
Peterson MSNBC contributor and Director of Africana Studies at Lehigh
University, great to have all of you with us tonight.
Karen. you first. Is a county sheriff`s office in an -- the internal
investigation that they say is going on, do you think that sufficient at
this point or should it be at a higher level?
KAREN DESOTO, DEFENSE ATTY. & FMR. PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all, you
always have to do your internal investigation regardless of what happens at
different agencies. But both the U.S. attorney`s office and the AG`s
office can get involve in this because if there was a falsification of
records then obviously, many agencies have jurisdiction to kind of
investigate all of what is going on there.
So the prosecutor`s office can get involve at this point. They could do
their own investigation so there`s a lot that could happen in that, will
probably happen at this point. And that`s not even -- that`s before we
even get into the civil suits that are probably going to rise out of this.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Mesereau, where does the liability stand if this report in
the Tulsa World is accurate? If there were reports that were falsified,
that he was given accreditation for things he didn`t earn through which was
a required system where does that bring us?
THOMAS MESEREAU, ATTORNEY: Well in a civil suit for wrongful death and
negligence against the police department, it`s going to be devastating
evidence against the police department.
I think the family of the gentleman who was killed are going to have a lot
stronger case because of this evidence if it`s true. As far as the
criminal case goes, it`s a question of to what extend the defendant was
involve in the coverup, and maybe that someone thought they were doing in
the favor and simply giving him some credit that he didn`t even know about.
We don`t what the answer to that. I have said that even through these
charges are very appropriate, that this is a defense lawyer`s dream, this
guy is going to get up and say I`m 73 years old, I have no criminal record,
I`ve supported our police for years in every way I could, I donated my time
and I did not set the stage for this event, this I thought was a violent
criminal, you know, keeping us on a chase, I have made mistake, I
acknowledge it right away. I`m so sorry I`m devastated. Please don`t make
me a felon on the rest of my life.
Ed, maybe a defensible criminal case but in a civil case against a police
department that this is true it`s going to be devastating.
SCHULTZ: Well, Karen, back to you for a moment. If this is a defense
attorney`s dream how about the prosecutor, how would you view this case?
DESOTO: Oh well, a prosecutor has lots of claims here. First of all, not
only as the defendant, Mr. Bates, in this case have liability, criminal
liability but also any officer who falsify them, put those documents
through. You have to remember, Ed, that it is not a defense for other
police officers to comply with an illegal order. So those police officers
that help with any falsification would be in a really bad situation to get
prosecuted for official misconduct, for conspiracy, and, you know, this is
a bad situation not just for him but this entire police department.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Peterson, what`s your reaction to Harris family alleging that
Bates was acting as a "pay to play cop" and if his records were falsified,
then that`s the only reason why he was there that we could assume is that,
he had the money to put himself on the job.
DR. JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I think the Harris family and their
attorney have the right angle on this, in the right sense about this. Ed,
you`ll notice in their statements that they repeatedly refer to
"reasonable", they use the term "reasonable" over and over again because
legally these things are going to come down to as whether or not Mr. Bates
was conduct himself as a reasonable officer, whether or not those other
officer`s were conducting themselves reasonably in that particular
situation, very complicated.
But there two other issues I want to consider here. One, Malcolm X
Grassroots Movement put out before that says every 28 hours these killings
are happening either by law enforcement or vigilantes. And it strikes me
that Mr. Bates is kind of a little bit in between because more and more our
law enforcement institutions are relying on citizens to come in and
Now, Mr. Bates had the resources to donate cars, to donate guns, to donate
the Tasers and maybe even the cameras that they were using to film this
particular case. And we have to ask ourselves, Ed, why our law enforcement
institutions having more and more to rely on these volunteers, in these
possible vigilantes, in this particular kind of cases. Their reason,
they`re underfunded, they`re systemically underfunded.
PETERSON: And so in a very moment when we`re wrestling with all of these
challenges about black life and the murder of an unarmed citizens, we have
to also consider whether or not this law enforcement institutions are
properly funded to do the work they`re suppose to do.
DESOTO: Well money and politics are always the root to all evil. I think
that we`re going to continue to see this...
PETERSON: There you go.
DESOTO: ... problems. But you see the politics that are involve here, Ed,
you see the political, there were contributions here. So again politics
this is what happen...
PETERSON: To the sheriff`s campaign.
DESOTO: . when you have sheriff, and judges, and prosecutors that campaign
and there`s a lot of corruption that`s involved in. And that`s in anything
that`s going to have, any type of money here.
Also, you know, even if the manslaughter charges don`t step, you still has
involuntary manslaughter. So he was acting in a reckless or negligent
manner, he can still be charged with involuntary manslaughter and still be
exposed to up to six years in jail.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Mr. Mesereau, from the defense attorney standpoint, if I`m
a prosecutor, I would say this, that Mr. Bates felt so confident in his
training that he though he could go for his Taser, that obviously that
there were other cops around that could have gotten the job but he felt so
embolden by his position that he felt confident enough for he could grab
for something that turned out to be a gun. He thought it was a Taser,
where does that put to defense in this regard?
MESEREAU: Well, the defense again, it`s going to say that he was chasing a
violent felon, a felon who was trying to sell illegal guns, guns that kill.
The chase was on. He did everything he could, given what he knew and given
the stress of the situation. That`s what the defense is going to say and
he is a man with no prior history of criminal conduct who has always
supported the police. He did his very best.
As I say, the case against the police department for civil damage is could
be devastating with this kind of information. But remember, the person he
was chasing was on take trying to sell illegal weapons. The man who was
MESEREAU: ... South Carolina was stopped for a busted taillight...
DESOTO: A 73-year-old man should not -- A 73-year-old man -- there`s
mandatory in minimums in almost every state. So mandatory retirement for
police officers usually at 65, you have a...
DESOTO: ... 73-year-old man here, you really need to take that into
MESEREAU: Well, but does that apply to his mental state? I doubt it. It
applies to the police for letting him do it.
I think he was trying -- he`ll say, he was trying to do his best.
DESOTO: Exactly. Yup. It sounds like they need some legislation.
SCHULTZ:... referring to.
DESOTO: Right. It sounds like Oklahoma needs some legislation.
SCHULTZ: This 73-year-old guy is in a sense taking the position of maybe
20- or 30-something who really wants to be the real peace officer, the
well-trained peace officer.
I mean, there`s a number of things that come into play here. Tight
budgets, community policing, somebody cash swifting (ph)...
SCHULTZ: ... pay yo play, election money, all of these. I mean this is
the ugliest case when it comes to community policing and what can really
happen when you give somebody the authority that they think they have and
now there`s question about whether the training was proper or not.
SCHULTZ: ... this is a perfect story.
DESOTO: I think common sense will tells us...
PETERSON: It is.
DESOTO: ... that a 73-year-old man should be chasing after a suspect, Ed.
I mean it`s pretty clear. So, you know, obviously there is so much going
MESEREAU: I agree that...
SCHULTZ: Go ahead, Tom.
MESEREAU: ... he`s shouldn`t been there. The question is, is he now a
felon because he was there trying to help the police.
MESEREAU: The defense is going to say he did the best he could in a
difficult situation that he didn`t create.
DESOTO: I`m not saying he should have been there. I think it`s a fault of
the police department. He shouldn`t have been in that position. That`s
SCHULTZ: All right.
SCHULTZ: Karen DeSoto, Thomas Mesereau...
PETERSON: That`s interesting to say because at the end of the day, he paid
his way there. Well...
SCHULTZ: That he did pay his way there.
PETERSON: Excuse me.
SCHULTZ: Yeah, no question about it.
DESOTO: Politics and money.
SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight, all of you. I appreciate it
very much. Thanks so much.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen at
polls.msnbc.com/ed, that`s where you got to go. We`ll have the results
after this break. Follow us on Facebook and watch my Facebook feature
"Give Me a Minute". You could get my video podcast at wegoted.com.
Coming up, Hillary Clinton made some defining statements of the campaign
trail this week, but she is still silent on one of the biggest economic
issues. We`re listening.
And later, no buts, California legislators pushed for new laws to stop
smoking in their state.
Stay tuned. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: Well, here where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll, "Should
any police volunteer be given a handgun?"
94 percent of you, over 90 percent of you consistently say no.
Polls.msnbc.com, "Should any police volunteer be given a handgun?" Those
are the numbers.
We`ll be right back at the Ed Show. Stay with us. We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
Well, overall and I guess been a pretty good week for Hillary Clinton on
the campaign trail in Iowa.
Now, if you keep in track of where Hillary stands on progressive issues,
it`s been interesting to say the least.
She had redefined herself in many respects. She has addressed a number of
positions people really want to hear on.
Now, Clinton immediately spoke out about income inequality at her first
CLINTON: As you look across the country, the deck is still stacked in
favor of those already at the top. And there`s something wrong with that.
There is something wrong when CEOs make 300 times more than the typical
SCHULTZ: She continued her populous tones throughout the week.
Now, let`s go down the checklist of issues that are out there.
Clinton has addressed income inequality. Bernie Sanders is saying he is
not sure that she knows how to really address it. It`s more what she does
not what she says. There is a shot over the bowl.
She spoke about Citizens United, kind of, but she did talk about big money
and politics in a constitutional amendment to address it which was
Clinton supports same-sex marriage unequivocally, very defined on that.
She wants to tackle growing student debt and do something about it.
Well, President Obama tried to do something about it. He is for free
college tuition at community colleges.
Clinton says that she will fight to protect the Obamacare. That means
preexisting conditions and all the major provisions in the bill. And I
think she`s got good credibility because she tried to get it done back in
She wants to reform rules for small businesses and to free up capital for
start ups. That means access to money. The big banks are tight with the
dollar. The entrepreneurs, the little guys, those with not many resources,
will they ever get their chance in America? It sounds to me like she wants
to change that.
And there`s one very important missing issue on the list but it`s still
early in the campaign, but it`s been such a hot issue on Capitol Hill,
trade policies in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Now, I`ll tell you why this is a huge deal. The former Secretary Of State
had to know something about the Trans-Pacific Partnership being negotiated.
Now, it`s been a good week for Hillary. But if she came out against the
TPP would be as I see, a fantastic week. We`re coming down to the wire on
fast-track in Congress for a vote.
Earlier today, tax committees where in action in the House and the Senate
and they reached an agreement on fast-track authority. The bill would give
Congress the power to vote on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the trade
deal, which will encompass 60 percent of the world economy. But it would
deny them. It would deny Congress from making changes on the trade deal
when things go bad.
Now, at this hour, it`s unclear if fast-track has the support to make it to
the President`s desk.
Now, House Democrats are standing strong against fast-track, every union in
this country, not some, not a few, not most, every single union in this
country has taken an official position against this trade deal.
How can Hillary be silent?
Now, we know, it will shift American jobs overseas. And the Democrats need
to be concerned with one thing, whoever is running for president. You want
to win the White House, you better win Ohio and you better win
Pennsylvania. And if you think you can go to Lorain, Ohio, and Akron,
Ohio, and, Toledo, Ohio, and Youngstown, Ohio and get the same workers that
reelected Jerry Brown, to get the same workers that gave President Obama
the state of Ohio, if a Democrat can turn his or her back on the TPP and
win Ohio, it will be a Charles Atlas lift, believe me.
I don`t know it it`s politically possible.
So it becomes a huge issue in the big picture for the White House because
of labors involvement on this and the pressure it will put on middle-class
It`s become big news this week after this fast-track agreement in these
committees. American`s deserved to know early on, unequivocally. Where
does Hillary Clinton stand on this deal because if she supports fast-track,
and if she supports the TPP, I would bet every dime I have in Vegas that
somebody else is going to jump into the race just because of this issue.
For more, let me bring in Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut, also
with us tonight, Larry Cohen, President of the Communication Workers of
Congresswoman, you first, great to have you with us tonight. What do you
make of these agreements that were struck in committee today? What does
this mean? Is this just a step forward?
REP. ROSA DELAURO, (D) CONNECTICUT: Let me just say this, Ed, and I think
you`ll appreciate this as well as Larry Cohen will, that I`d like to quote
really a good friend of all of ours and that was Governor Ann Richards when
she says, "You can put lipstick and earrings on a pig, call it Monique, but
it is still a pig."
This agreement today really is what fast-track was all about in 2014, and
when it arrived in Congress, it would dead-on-arrival, and it will be
continued to be opposed in this Congress as well.
We got laid out negotiating objectives that are not enforceable in any way.
You take a look at currency -- Larry will comment on this, I`m sure as
well. They`d say that we should avoid currency manipulation.
Think about that (inaudible) what does that mean? There is no prohibition,
and indeed, this treaty has been in the making for five years, and we
DELAURO: ... and we`ve been told that there will be no currency chapter in
it, and currency is directly related to lost of job, depression of wages
and the data is overwhelming and they will not address it in this...
DELAURO: ... fast-track bill.
SCHULTZ: Apparently, in the Senate Finance Committee today, Ron Wyden is
saying that they have agreed on this provision, a change in the human
rights that there will be some human rights provisions in here.
I don`t know how you`re going to enforce that, I don`t know. -- you`re
trusting other nations. Larry, what do you make of this?
LARRY COHEN, COMMUNICATIONS WORKERS OF AMERICAN: I think there`s no
enforcement. I was in Mexico last week with progressive groups including
independent unionist. They haven`t been talked to at all.
So this notion that somehow, we will wheel it through words in a chapter
when the countries involved, whether it`s Vietnam or none of that
challenging groups are involved or whether it`s Mexico where a conditions
for workers continue to get worst.
It`s impossible. And we`ve had no enforcement before. We get reports.
I was in Honduras. We got a nice report on Honduras. Three years after,
the complaints were filed. Guatemala, six years later, and then, Mr.
Frohman meets with those governments.
Meanwhile, corporations get the right to sue, and get billions of dollars.
So it`s not any better. It`s just better words in some ways but the end
result is exactly the same. Citizens get nothing.
DELAURO: Well, I would just add...
SCHULTZ: Are there enough votes...
DELAURO: Let me just.
SCHULTZ: Wait a minute. Ho, ho, ho (ph).
SCHULTZ: Well, Congresswoman, I want to know. Are there enough votes in
the House to pass fast-track because in the Senate...
DELAURO: We`re not going to pass fast-track. We are going to be defeat...
SCHULTZ: ... a lot of deals could be made?
DELAURO: We are going to defeat fast-track in the House of Representative.
There is opposition to it and with regard to the human rights issue that
you just talked about, again, those...
DELAURO: ... objectives say, we need to promote human rights.
We`re going to promote human rights. What does promote mean?
As Larry pointed out, no enforceability, there hasn`t been in the past. He
cited the cases. We are going to be engaged with the country of Brunei who
follows Sharia law which flags (ph) women, stones women, and lesbians and
Is that the kind of human rights...
DELAURO: ... that we want to promote through our trade agreements? No.
SCHULTZ: All right. Larry Cohen, does Hillary Clinton`s silence on TPP
COHEN: It does trouble me. I think she has to speak out because unlike
other policy issues that depend on the Congress like reducing student debt,
the President, the executive branch initiates the trade issues. They
initiate to negotiate in secret deals like TPP.
So the critical area in terms of action for a presidential candidate is
what will you do on trade? And we would say to candidate Clinton now,
where do you stand on things like investor state dispute settlement?
It`s easy enough for you to say, I see countries around the world coming at
against it from Germany, to Bolivia, to Brazil, I don`t believe in that
anymore, it`s a 28th century version. Let`s create a new paradigm and as
President, I will do it.
That`s why I think it`s so important. The rest of these things can be
rhetoric about what I want the Congress to do that they`ll never do. This
is what the executive branch does.
She needs to say no fast-track...
SCHULTZ: All right.
COHEN: ... no investor state.
SCHULTZ: And a lot of activism on Capitol Hill. Let`s see if it has an
Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro and also Larry Cohen, good to have you on the Ed
Show, I appreciate the conversation.
California plans to snap out smoking with the set of new laws. We`ll have
the details ahead. And is Chris Christie thinks about to run on 2016.
We`ll look at how his economic record is more of the same old story for the
Grand Old Party.
Stick around, we`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: Good to have you back with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
It seems that Chris Christie just floating this big balloon trying to
wander whether the country really wants him to run for president. He won`t
stand firm on a presidential run.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: We`re still going through the really personal part of this
decision with me, and Mary Pat, and the family. I don`t know I will tell
you this I think a governor is going to be the nominee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Christie needs to tell the country, what he thinks makes him a
good candidate. I think that`s a crucial question.
All of the declared Republican candidates I think have got a horrible
record on the economy Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, they all push for
the government shutdown that cost the treasury $24 billion. They`ve only
hurt the economy and Christie really is no different, what is he going to
Credit rating agencies downgraded the state in New Jersey eight times since
Christie went on to the governor`s office. Christie`s record for distrust
showed in the public retirement system. It was just last year that
Christie back out of his disagreement to pay $2.4 billion of promise
pension funds he never wants to pay up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: I`m tired of telling the truth, I`m tired to hear about the
minimum wage, I really am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So he wants to reform entitlements and he didn`t want to pay
Christie has disrespected workers, his cut teachers across the board to the
tune of 6,000 in education, he`s not a job creator, the numbers don`t show
that, he`s big idea is gutting entitlements?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: In a long-term it will steal our children`s future and it will
bankrupt our nation, frankly, Washington is afraid. Now, we have an honest
conversation about Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid with the people
of our country, I am not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: That`s just a special way of saying, "You know, I think we should
privatize everything we can" that`s what it is. And of course, he wants
you to believe that Social Security is the big threat to your future you
20- and 30-somethings, it certainly isn`t the billions of dollars that
we`re spending in the Middle East.
Chris Christie needs to tell the country what qualifies him to run for
president other than his bravado, and his style, and his knocking folk
around Jersey guy attitude.
Joining me tonight New Jersey Assemblyman Gordon Johnson is with us also
David Corn, Mother Jones Washington Bureau Chief and MSNBC Political
Analyst, great to have both of you us tonight.
ASSEMBLYMAN GORDON JOHNSON, (D) NEW JERSEY: Yeah. Thank you, Ed.
DAVID CORN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to be with you, Ed.
SCHULTZ: Johnson you first -- you bet. Mr. Johnson, why is Chris Christie
-- why is he waiting to announce,why does he announce right now?
JOHNSON: You know, I don`t know exactly why or what his plan is maybe he`s
waiting for more New Jerseyan to support him, about 70 percent of New
Jerseyans, his home state, said they wouldn`t vote for him as president.
And that his home state, New Jersey, 70 percent as the poll -- that I read
in the paper the other day. So maybe is what he feel like to go up or
SCHULTZ: I don`t hear any new ideas, David Corn...
SCHULTZ: . do you?
CORN: No. He is always trying to get a whole of some support that I use
to have and the Republican fund raising establishment by talking about
long-term debt and entitlements, which is (inaudible) of those support as
other Republican party.
I mean what is he waiting for you ask, Ed, I think he`s waiting for this
indictments to come down before expecting the indictments in the next week
or two not of him but of his (inaudible) in the Bridgegate business.
But really his whole rationale from a year ago why -- would make him a
credible candidate has been shut through. He was a here was a guy, a
Republican who could win and sort of Democratic blue states like New
CORN: ... well as Gordon Johnson just said, he`s can`t win his own home
state now. He`s come, you know, and at the same time he use to alienate
conservative voters because he was too close to the president, you know,
didn`t cow-tail (ph) to the right as much as the...
CORN: .... other candidates.
I think he`s left with no constituency anymore.
SCHULTZ: What about that, Mr. Johnson? I mean if he can`t get his home
state who`s going to support this guy? But -- let me focus back on this,
what does he accomplished in New Jersey? That`s, you know, you have to run
on a record what is his record as you see it?
JOHNSON: Well, let`s see as what comes in mind or the eight downgrades by
Fitch and Moddy`s when it comes to our physical stability.
Let`s look at the missed pension installment that he that he didn`t refuse
to pay but he promise to pay, actually sign -- then to the law. I mean
that`s want to pay right that now.
And our unemployment rate which is still higher than our neighbors -- which
actually tied in our neighbors, neighbor state. So I don`t know what else
he can run on when it comes to issues and his home state. We have of
course our try to transportation trust fund, he`s not addressing that. And
JOHNSON: ... almost bankrupt.
So I don`t know what is he has to run on, you know, I think American
SCHULTZ: And he`s not a job creator.
JOHNSON: Excuse me.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Johnson, has he created jobs? Are there net positive jobs in
New Jersey on his watch?
JOHNSON: Not that I`ve read, no. As matter of fact, in Today`s paper they
said that our employment rate is at 6.5 percent which is higher
(inaudible). So is actually a bit higher unemployment side, Eddy.
SCHULTZ: So David Corn, what is he running on? What is he going to say "I
did this" what is he going to say?
CORN: I don`t, you know, every governor can come up with statics that will
try to make it seem like they are, you know, their state is been miracle
state, it`s doing so well. Putting that aside, as I said earlier I don`t
think he is much of a rationale and I think he knows that in terms of the
outcomes he had in his state, which is why he`s now trying to, you know,
pivot a bit, is the tough talking.
I tell you the hard truth type of Republican guy...
CORN: ... and there always a candidate try to run that way in both sides.
You know, you had Democrats trying to do that in the past Senator Angus
(ph) was one in the Democratic side. He`s been trying to fill that space
in Republican side but I don`t think it`s going to give him a lot of lift.
SCHULTZ: All rights. Assemblyman Gordon Johnson with us tonight and also
David Corn of Mother Jones, gentlemen, thank you so much.
Stick around, Rapid Response Panel coming up next on the Ed Show, we are
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks end slightly lower, the Dow falls 6 points, the S&P is off by 1, the
Nasdaq sheds 3 points.
A big move for shares of Etsy which surge 87 percent in their first day of
training, the online seller of home made goods price to $16 a share and
close today at $30.
The number of Americans filling for jobless claims arose last week climbing
12,000 to 294,000.
And American Express shares a lower after hours following his latest
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: And we are back.
California Democrats are taking on big tobacco in a big way.
This month`s state lawmakers announced that package of bold anti-smoking
measures that would lead the country in the effort to stamp out tobacco use
Lawmakers want to raise this smoking age from 18 to 21 raised the tobacco
tax by $2 per pack and banned smokeless tobacco from all California ball
Another bill would regulate electronic cigarettes just like other tobacco
products banning their use in public places.
A new report reveals a shocking rise in e-cigarettes among teenagers.
NBC`s Erika Edwards has the latest.
ERIKA EDWARDS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Let`s start with a bit of good
Just 9 percent of high school student said they smoke cigarette last year,
a significant decline from nearly 16 percent in 2011. But it seems the
replacing conventional cigarettes with electronic cigarettes both contained
DR. DAVID TINKELMAN, NATIONAL JEWISH HEALTH: Nicotine is, we know for
sure, an addictive product. Put them to the hands of teenagers who are
more susceptible to addictive products, this is a problem.
EDWARDS: These Centers for Disease Control published findings from the
latest National Youth Tobacco survey. It has 22,000 teens whether they`ve
used tobacco within the past month.
The percentage of kids trying e-cigarettes tripled in a short period of
time from 4.5 percent in 2013 to more than 13 percent a year later.
BRIAN KING, PHD, OFFICE ON SMOKING AND HEALTH, CDC: The fact that youth
are even experimenting with these products which we know, can have lasting
effects on their developing brain can cause addiction and it can lead to
sustained tobacco use is concerning to us.
EDWARDS: Including Drug Administration has power over conventional
cigarettes but not e-cigarettes which have exploded in popularity in recent
KING: We don`t want to be playing a game of tobacco and nicotine whack-a-
mole, we`re addressing one type of tobacco product and allowing others to
EDWADS: Last year, the FDA proposed a ban on e-cigarette sales to kids
under age 18. An idea backed by the e-cigarette industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight on our Rapid Response Panel, California State
Senator Mark Leno and Gregory Conley, he is the President of the American
Vaping Association. Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
Senator, you first, your sponsored bill that would regulate e-cigarettes,
is this going to have an impact? Do you think this will curb habits of
SEN. MARK LENO, (D) CALIFORNIA: Thank you very much for the invitation,
Ed. I`m a big fan of your show.
What we`re trying to do here in California, and we do have bipartisan
support on our bill, is to protect public health and to prevent a new
generation of nicotine addicts. And all the bill doesn`t ban any vaping
establishments, it doesn`t do anything other than as you`ve said, regulate
e-cigarettes as the tobacco products, if they are and not only does the FDA
say they are in tobacco product and the Centers for Disease Control and the
World Health Organization, the California Department of Public Health.
But if you look on the packaging of some of these e-cigarette manufacturers
such as Mark Ten or you can go to the website of R.J. Reynolds, they say...
LENO: ,,, they are innovative digital tobacco products. So everyone
recognizes, they are tobacco product and as soon as the draft regulations
of the FDA go into effect in June, that will be official.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Conley, should this be regulated? Is this a danger to teens?
I mean should the regulation -- should there be regulations on e-cigarettes
as you see it?
GREGORY CONLEY, AMERICAN VAPING ASSOCIATION: Well, first of, thank you for
having me. As far as regulation goes, California law already banned the
sale of vapor products to minors. They are one of the first states to do
so and FDA regulation of vapor products could be good public health.
Unfortunately, the current system that is setup would actually benefit big
tobacco because as the FDA had submitted the requirements to keep products
on the market under the FDA`s tobacco control act, are so stringent, that
approximately 99 percent of this smoke-free, tobacco-free and often
nicotine for e-products, will literally be removed from the market
And so that is our big concern...
SCHULTZ: OK. Well...
CONLEY: ... when it comes to federal regulation.
SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Conley, is an e-cigarettes a tobacco product?
CONLEY: No. Many of them do not contain nicotine. These are technology
Yes. The nicotine is derived from tobacco but the gum, patch and lozenges,
they also contain nicotine derived from tobacco but because they are
produced by pharmaceutical companies, we have made the decision as a nation
not to label them as tobacco products. So we argue, why not create
separate classifications for innovative products that are helping people
SCHULTZ: What about that, Senator Leno?
LENO: Well, if the e-cigarette industry would like to be determined by the
Food and Drug Administration to be cessation device as Mr. Conley is
suggesting, they should submit application and if they do get the
determination as cessation device which no one other than they claim they
are. Our legislation will not impact them because our bill is not about
But no one other than Mark Ten, again, when the larger players in the
industry if you look on their packaging it says, "We are not a cessation
device nor have we been tested as such."
SCHULTZ: Mr. Conley...
CONLEY: I`m sorry.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.
CONLEY: I was going to say that is big tobacco and big tobacco, R.J.
Reynolds, they may sell e-cigarettes but 99 percent, 95 percent of their
margins are still made of traditional deadly combustible cigarettes. And
so they do see a benefit to labeling this as tobacco products and shutting
out their small business competitors from this market.
LENO: Ed, you`ll find this interesting. In 2009...
LENO: ... the industry sued the FDA claiming they were in tobacco product
not a cessation device because if they were cessation device since FDA
could have regulate them at that time. They won in court. The court ruled
they were a tobacco product.
SCHULTZ: All right...
SCHULTZ: All right. Gentlemen, we`ll have you back. State Senator...
LENO: Thanks, Ed.
SCHULTZ: ... Mark Leno and Gregory Conley, I appreciate your time tonight.
Thank you so much.
Still to come, all the pickles, all the wages, they had one of the fast
food chains speaks out against raising the minimum wage Jesus, (inaudible)
burger are going to up if you pay these kids.
We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: All right. Here we go Two-minute Drill.
He`s reinstated. Minnesota Viking Running Back Adrian Peterson was
reinstated by the NFL this afternoon. He can resume activities with teams
Peterson has been out of the game since November after pleading no contest
to an assault charge.
The NFL says Commissioner Roger Goodell informed Peterson the leagues
expectations is that Peterson must fulfill additional commitments he made
with the Commissioner in a meeting last week regarding counseling and other
The Vikings say, "Hey, we want him back." They look forward to Adrian
rejoining the team.
AP of course, Adrian Peterson, can rejoin the team when they begin off-
season workouts on Monday but whether he`ll stay with the Minnesota Vikings
is up to the air, Peterson has expressed interest in a trade during the
off-season, and I hope he stays with the Viks.
There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show. Stick around. We`ll be right
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
And finally tonight, this is the story for the folks who take a shower
after work. In fact, this is where folks want to work.
Thousands of protesters demanded a living wage on Wednesday. Low wage
workers across the country united for a day of action.
Now, demonstrations like these have really led the wage hikes at Walmart
and McDonald`s, there`s been a lot of public pressure.
The co-founder of Burger King, well, this guy won`t budge.
David Edgerton, he says higher wages mean, "Hey, $10 hamburger." He calls
the living wage code a "wild figure". He`s numbers, as I see it, are off.
Fast foods in Denmark at $20 an hour, their burgers caused less than $1
more than hours.
Now, not all business leaders think like Edgerton. The CEO of the Seattle-
based company Gravity Payments raised the wages of his entire staff by
cutting his own pay.
He`s putting workers for first and, of course, he joins us tonight. Dan
Price is the CEO of Gravity Payments. Dan, good to have you with us on the
Ed Show tonight.
I`m curious, what motivated you to do this and what did you -- what kind of
reaction did you think you`re going to get?
DAN PRICE, CEO GRAVITY PAYMENTS: Yeah. Let`s say it really comes down to
values for me. Business is all about values, and our values started by us
saying, "How do we make credit card processing fair for business because
it`s very much a big monopolistic industry that takes advantage of
But as we learn more and more about that, we decided we kind of like to
standing up for the little guy. And a big part of that is helping people
get ahead and succeed, and so we`ve been thinking about it for a while and
we came up with this idea.
SCHULTZ: Well, you know, the bottom line has to work. Is the bottom line
going to work with this move?
PRICE: You know, it`s a little bit of a risk especially in the short term.
It is a big sacrifice for us for our bottom line. But we`ve spend our
entire time in business doing the right thing and kind of letting the
bottom line take care of itself. And I think this is one more of those
moments where, you know, when you put your faith in doing the right thing
and taking care of people, you know, they tend to take care of you back.
I was sitting in the studio here, and I was watching your guys Twitter feed
go by, and there were many, many people saying, "Hey, let`s reward
companies like Gravity Payments for doing the right thing. Let`s switch
our credit card processing. Let`s do business with Gravity Payments."
And there are real tangible ways that we can join these movements in create
long-lasting social change.
SCHULTZ: You know, authority is a heck of a thing, but so as loyalty. And
loyalty in business can take companies a long way.
I mean, I don`t think you could buy this kind of P.R. I mean, I`m serious.
I mean -- you`re all over the news, people are talking about it, it`s a
real model of unselfishness. And this conversation that`s going on in this
country about income inequality, do that play at all into your decision at
PRICE: It did quite a bit but a big part of it was I really thought this
people deserved it, right? Because the -- my colleagues at Gravity,
because when I started the company, people say, "Hey, yeah, Dan, you can
take great care of your clients. You can charge them way less and do more
for them." But it`s not scalable, it`s not sustainable.
And so I continued to push on that and added more people and, you know, as
the company has gotten bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and now we have
thousands of clients all over the United States. We`ve maintained that
same ethic of putting our clients first and view in business as a chance to
serve and lead not just to make money.
And so I`m really proud that we`ve come this far and we`ve maintained that.
But to tell you the truth, everyone has to be onboard for that in my
business. And so there are people...
PRICE: ... that worked in a job where they were making, you know, prior to
our announcement on Monday $35,000 a year and they are just as essential to
that success as I am. And they were adding just as much as me, yet, I was
making 20 times as much as they were. And to me, it just kind of struck me
And then in addition to that, you know, the more I thought about in the
research, happiness, and pay, and how they relate, it was all about once
you get to a number around $70,000, $80,000, you can really focus on your
work. And so, that`s why I wanted to allow...
PRICE: ... people to do.
SCHULTZ: You have not become the company to work in Seattle. Hey, this
Dan Price guy is a really good guy.
We stay on this program. Let`s get to work. Now, you got to get to work
and make this thing work.
PRICE: I got to make it work.
SCHULTZ: Congratulations and good luck to you, Dan. Good job to your role
model for leadership in business. Way to go.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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