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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, April 18th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Saturday show

Date: April 18, 2015>
Guest: Evan McMorris-Santoro, Katie Packer Gage, L. Joy Williams, Vin
Weber, Ben White, L. Joy Williams, Evan McMorris-Santoro, Katie Packer
Gage, Sahil Kapur, Charlie Rangel



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want a coronation on our side by any stretch
of the imagination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see any coronation coming my way, trust me.


Hampshire is on.

And good morning to you. Thanks for getting UP with us this Saturday
morning. Promising to be a beautiful day outside here in New York. But in
New Hampshire, republican presidential candidates are everywhere this
weekend. They have descended on that state for the first big test in the
first in the nation primary campaign. We`ll going to have a lot more live
on the ground from New Hampshire just a minute from now. Hillary Clinton
is also on her way to the granite state after a big week for her in Iowa.
She`s been sounding a lot like Elizabeth Warren lately. So, how is that
going over with Wall Street? Is there any tension there?

And what about Mike Huckabee, the man who once won Iowa, announced that he
would be making a big announcement last night about another possible run.
So, what did he say, is he running or not? We will talk about that in a
little bit. Also President Obama voicing his frustration with the Senate
over the Loretta Lynch nomination. What he said and whether Harry Reid
will be able to force a vote on her nomination as attorney general. That
is coming up as well. There is also one democrat and one republican on
stage at the 2012 presidential debates. That`s how it usually goes. Both
major party candidates, no minor party candidates. But should a third
party candidate be allowed in 2016? We will talk to somebody who says yes
and ask him what`s he`s trying to do to make that happen next year.

Also the last time I tried cooking on this show didn`t go all that
smoothly. But this morning, Congressman Charlie Rangel is going to be here
to share his secrets in the kitchen and maybe to help try to eat some more
fruits and vegetables. We`ll explain that a little bit.

Plus, a big day on the mall in Washington, what it is that is drawing
Usher, Mary J. Blige and our friends Thomas Roberts and Will and Pharrell,
all of them together. The answer to that is ahead.

But, we begin this morning in the first in the nation primary state of New
Hampshire. It is the epicenter of the political universe this weekend.
Republican presidential candidates and possible presidential candidates
more than a dozen of them in all. Descending on the granite state for the
first big New Hampshire cattle call of the 2016 primary campaign. Next
year`s New Hampshire primary will come only days after the Iowa caucuses.
Some candidates will survive it. Most probably won`t. In this weekend, a
big early test for all of those candidates. They are calling it the first
in the nation`s summit. Hundreds of party activists` cameras from all over
the world, all of them convening on a hotel ball room in Nashua, New
Hampshire. Each candidate getting 30 minutes to make their case. Chris
Christie, Rick Perry, Jeb Bush among those speaking during the day
yesterday. Before last night`s prime time keynote speech from Marco Rubio.


RICK PERRY (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not buy into those that
say you can`t secure the border. Yes, you can. You must first have the
will. And that will has to be exhibited from the highest office in this

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: The people around the world know the
same thing that people in the United States know. That we have a weak
president who has weakened our country. And they are taking advantage of
that in every way they possibly can.

JEB BUSH (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was called Vito Corleone
because I vetoed 2,500 separate light items in the budget totaling $2

of standards set at the national level but it`s going to be eventually used
by the Department of Education, I don`t care what anybody tells you, those
standards will eventually be used to force on states policies the federal
government wants or you won`t get federal money. And that`s not the right


KORNACKI: And just hours from now, day two begins with Rand Paul, Ted
Cruz, John Kasich, Scott Walker, all of them on today`s agenda. Now the
backdrop for all this is a new poll with some surprising numbers in New
Hampshire. The leader right now, there`s a poll just out this week showing
Scott Walker in the lead with 24 percent. That`s ten points ahead of Ted
Cruz. Rand Paul right behind him. And then look at this, Jeb Bush, all
the way back in fourth place right now. In New Hampshire at just 10
percent. Rubio and Chris Christie behind all of them. This is now the
fourth straight poll to show Scott Walker leading in New Hampshire. And
Walker, as we say will be the final speaker at the summit tonight. His
speech expected to begin around 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Those poll numbers are creating some big expectations from Walker. Will he
be able to leave up to them tonight? Those numbers are also the latest
worries and sign for Bush who is struggling in the early states and
national polls as well. Does the republican base view him as too much of
an establishment figure? It is the Bush name? Bush spoke late Friday
afternoon. Did he manage the change the minds of New Hampshire primary
voters? And what about Marco Rubio, he announced his candidacy earlier
this week in Miami. This is his first trip to New Hampshire as an official
candidate. He got the best speaking slot last night. How did that go
over? As we said, there is a lot at stake in New Hampshire this weekend in
a way it`s still early. But in a way, it isn`t. A campaign is already in
full swing. And when it comes to party leaders and activists impressions,
both good and bad, are being formed right now. As we speak.

So, to make sense of what happened last night and what we can expect today,
let`s go live now to Nashua, New Hampshire to MSNBC political correspondent
Kasie Hunt. So, Kasie, Marco Rubio as we mentioned was the keynote
speaker, he got that plumb spot last night. Let`s play a clip from his
speech and I`ll ask you about it.


RUBIO: You know, tonight as I speak to you, my wife and children are in
Orlando, Florida, at a volleyball tournament. And I wish I was there, I`m
very happy to be here with you. When you make the decision to run for
president, you realize you`ll going to be away from home. There are days
that you`re not going to be there. And there are volleyball tournaments
that you`re going to miss. What allowed me to finally make the decision to
run is that I understood that this election is as much about them as it is
about anybody else. For their generation, my children`s generation is the
most important generation in American history. Because they will either be
the freest and most prosperous Americans that have ever lived or the first
to inherit a diminish country from their parents.


KORNACKI: So, Kasie so much talk this week about Marco Rubio getting into
the race. Jeb Bush is one time mentor. They`re going to have to be
running against each other. Rubio`s first big appearance in New Hampshire
as a candidate. Bush speaking a few hours before him. How did each of
them go over with the crowd last night?

say, I think Rubio`s performance might have been the strongest that we
heard yesterday. Having watched his announcement speech also earlier this
week, this speech was stronger. He was clearly very excited to be a
presidential candidate. He called it the most historic week of his life.
While he started off that announcement speech a little bit nervous, there
was no sign of that last night. And Rubio is probably the strongest
candidate in this field telling a story. He can strike emotional chords in
a way many of the others in the field haven`t been able to yet.

So, while he`s obviously back in the polls here, I think that he is
somebody really to watch here. The other thing that I would point out is,
I think that Chris Christie is somebody else to watch here. He`s also of
course been in some ways written off. But this was the weekend that he
started taking his traditional brand of town hall politics to the state of
New Hampshire. He`s done two town halls so far. And I think the
Manchester Union Leader, excuse me -- the New Hampshire Union Leader, Drew
Cline is an editorial writer there, wrote a column about how Christie is
the kind of candidate that might fit this state exactly. In part because
he`s somebody who is willing to put in the time and his slogan is
basically, you know what? I`m going to come up here and tell it like it
is. You heard a little bit of that from him on the stage last night.

KORNACKI: Yes. And Kasie, stay with us for a second. We`ll have more
also in a minute on Chris Christie and what he`s doing up there exactly
right now.

But let`s bring in for a second today`s panel. Evan McMorris Santoro, a
White House reporter with BuzzFeed. Katie Packer Gage, she`s a republican
consultant, deputy campaign manager for Mitt Romney in 2012. And L. Joy
Williams, democratic political strategist and founder of the Public Affairs
Firm LJW Community Strategies.

So, let`s just talk for a second about -- there`s two elements here. What
we saw yesterday, what we`re going to see later today. The Bush thing, is
interesting to me. The reaction that he`s generating from the republican
base. I`ve been saying for a long time. I think he`s got a real problem
there. His poll numbers when I look in the republican race, 16, 17
percent. Doesn`t seem too impressive to me. This is red state, the
conservative site reacting to Bush`s appearance in New Hampshire this
weekend, late this week, this weekend. He was asked a question about Iran,
he said I don`t know. That was his answer. So, here is red state saying,
I don`t know shows that he`s not ready for prime time and therefore can`t
be trusted as the nominee to handle the media. I mean, this is a
conservative site saying Jeb Bush not ready for prime time. Not a good
review for him, Katie.

sort of overstating things. Because somebody doesn`t have a pat answer on
every single question that they`re not ready for primetime. I think the
challenge that Jeb Bush has is that there`s a sense that you don`t really
know why people are supporting Jeb Bush other than they think that he`s,
you know, going to be a bit of a juggernaut in the primary. And that he
might be the nominee. And that`s not really a case for your candidacy.
And campaigns matter. This race is different from 2012. And even 2008 in
that you have a lot of really acceptable candidates in the race. It`s not
nearly as polarized as it was before. So, you don`t have people, you know,
putting a stake in the ground really early. There`s a lot of candidates
that voters would consider. And so, campaigns matter. And we`ll see how
it all plays out.

KORNACKI: And he was asked -- this was Friday in Manchester, this is after
an event that`s called politics and eggs. And Jeb Bush was asked basically
to defend his conservative credentials and let`s see how he handled that.


BUSH: I have a conservative record and probably, you know, the most
effective conservative governor. I would much my record with anybody
that`s thinking about running or any governor that during the last, you
know, last 20 years. It`s an I`m not kidding conservative record and it`s
one of results.


KORNACKI: Evan, I`m curious what you make of this. Because he`s running
in a climate where the republican base is so eager for purity, they like
outsiders, they don`t like the party establishment and here is somebody
trying to be the second, the third Bush president basically in a
generation. He`s sort of the face of the establishment in a lot of ways.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, BUZZFEED: Well, on the one hand, that kind of
reminds me a bit of 2012 only in the fact that, you know, Romney faced a
lot of this stuff as well. And ended up becoming the nominee. I mean,
they didn`t like him very much either and lots of these -- like him. And
new candidates were supposed to come in the whole time. He gained the
nomination. But it`s different in this field with a field that is in a
little bit more as Katie said a little bit more robust than it was in 2012.
And it`s possible that people is not going to be interested in putting
their weight behind a guy that the establishment says is the most electable
guy. That`s what his real problem. And he has to break out of being I`m
the good general election guy to I actually want to carry this values that
you care about forward.

KORNACKI: And Joy, one thing that struck me yesterday, was, we were paying
attention for this, because we thought this would be a theme that these
republicans would stress and they didn`t. We thought we would hear as much
sort of Hillary Clinton bashing as we did Barack Obama bashing as they sort
of start to turn towards 2016 away from the last eight years. Didn`t seem
to be the case yesterday. The impression I got was this candidate and this
party, this base is still really fixated on Obama as opposed to Hillary
Clinton, did not hear a lot of attacks on Hillary Clinton.

L. JOY WILLIAMS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. I think for the most part,
and as Katie mentioned that people have a lot of choices. And so they`re
looking to determine particularly who they`re going to support in the
primaries. They`re not looking ahead to the general election quite yet,
but looking to see who cannot only take our cause and fighting against this
current government right now, being in the form of the President, but who
also shares our values. And right now, it`s all about sharing values and
also who is a better campaigner. You know, sort of the individual things
that you get in the early primary states of actually talking to people.
Being able to convey your positions, your conservative values and your
positions. And so, when you`re not able to convey that in a concise way,
that becomes troubling. And then people don`t like you very much because
they`re saying you`re not ready. And we`re looking for someone who will
not only take up our cause and bear the flag for our conservative values,
but can go out and fight for us. And I don`t think for a number of the
candidates they haven`t shown that yet.

KORNACKI: Well, let`s go back to Kasie on the ground up there in Nashua.
So, Kasie, we were sort of it at halftime right now of this forum today,
Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, John Kasich who is suddenly the Ohio governor, Sunday
shows, some very public interest in this race. This is sort of his New
Hampshire debut. And then tonight, you know, of course Scott Walker. What
are you looking forward to today? What are you expecting?

HUNT: Well, Steve, a couple of things here. I think first and foremost
you were just talking a minute ago about Hillary Clinton. I think on that
front the person to watch is Carly Fiorina. And as we talked about on this
show before, she is somebody who has really gone after Hillary Clinton in a
pretty personal way. She said Hillary Clinton can`t campaign only on her
gender. I would argue that that`s something that`s more difficult for many
of the male candidates in the field to attack Hillary Clinton on. I asked
Jeb Bush yesterday to respond to the idea of whether he thought it was time
for a woman president. And he absolutely refused to engage with the
question. So I think that`s one thing. I think, you know, we have Mike
Huckabee coming up here today too. We`re expecting an announcement from
him. I will say, this is not really his turf. His turf is going to be in
Iowa. So, it will be interesting to see how he`s received in this group.

And then finally, Scott Walker who has the keynote tonight and who is
somebody who as you said has been leading in the polls. I think the
question is whether or not he can replicate the kind of performance that he
put in when he was in Iowa that sort of launched what we`re seeing from him
now. That cast him as functionally the front runner in this race if we do
have one at this point. But I do think that the question is whether he can
perform overall. He stopped taking questions from reporters largely impart
because he got himself into a little bit of trouble on a couple of
different issues. So, I think it will be interesting to see whether or not
he can navigate that. Whether or not he is open with the voters here in
this Q&A.

KORNACKI: This is an interesting thing about Scott Walker. Because right
now, I mean, the dynamic in this race I think is going to ultimately shake
out. The question is, who is going to play what role, but it`s going to be
Jeb Bush is sort of the quote-unquote, "the establishment candidate." And
then is there a consensus non-Jeb candidate who emerged as the main
challenger. What we`ve seen in the last few months is Scott Walker in the
early going has taken that role. And you seen him in the polls there in
New Hampshire, as Kasie says. It`s a question of whether he can sustain
that. I have talked to people who have expressed doubt that, you know,
he`s ready for this moment. That maybe this moment came too soon, came
earlier than they were expecting. And now they`re sort of scrambling to
sort of meet the expectations. They weren`t necessarily ready to meet at
this point.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: You know, Scott Walker has one of the best sort of
electoral records coming into this race. I mean, it`s unlike the last
primary campaign where sort of everybody got a chance to be the leader.
Before unknown reasons. I mean, Herman Cain will briefly the frontrunner
to make much sense. Scott Walker, I mean, he`s beaten democrats a bunch of
times. And every time the conversations happen about him like he is
strong, and I think you`re robust enough, can he really hold it together
long enough. He can point back and say, look, they came at me with
everything that they could in Wisconsin. I beat them every time. So, I
mean, I think he actually has a record and actually has some standing to
say that like, I deserve to be here and I can stay here for a while.

KORNACKI: Katie, I`m curious, because your role with the Romney campaign
in 2012. I hear so many people who look at past republican races and they
say, well, in the end the establishment candidate always wins. That`s what
happened with Romney. That`s what happened with McCain. That`s what
happened with Bush. And I`ve looked at 2012, and I`ve said, how different
would that have been if Mitt Romney had to run against somebody like Scott
Walker, somebody with a track record Evan was just talking about, as
opposed to Newt Gingrich who had been disgraced as, you know, as the House
Speaker or Herman Cain who had, sexual harassment allegations come up. If
he had to run against somebody who had a little bit more electoral
credibility, do you think the outcome might have been different?

GAGE: Well, sure. And that`s why very early on, you know, we set out to
try to, you know, get Tim Pawlenty out of the race because he would have
been a very formidable candidate. But that`s my point, campaigns matter.
And that`s part of a campaign strategy. And I would just sort of challenge
the notion anymore that Jeb Bush is somehow, you know, the leader of the
field and the establishment guy. I think the establishment is now very
divided. And I don`t think that there is sort of a favorite. Early on,
you know, back in January, you know, a lot of folks in D.C. and the east
coast were kind of lining up behind Jeb Bush. I didn`t hear a lot of that
enthusiasm outside of the eastern seaboard.

Now even in those places, you know, that has been diluted a fair amount.
You know, Marco had a very, very strong week. Scott Walker has said a lot
of things that people are excited about. And you know, Mike Huckabee is
going to be formidable. And I think we`ll, you know, potentially have the
effect of driving out of the race people like Rick Santorum who won`t find
a lane with Mike Huckabee in the race. So, all of these things are going
to change the field dramatically over the next couple of months. And it`s
going to be a really exciting situation to watch.

KORNACKI: Kasie, let me just get you back in here, at the end, that point
about Bush and where sort of expectations were for him when he got in this
race a few months ago. We heard about shock and awe. Hundred 100 million
dollars. Comparisons to his brother in 1999. Clearing out half the field.
What are the Bush people saying right now about the position they`re in?

HUNT: Well, Steve, I think that they maintain that this is always what
they expected. They always knew that this field was going to be this large
and this competitive. And Bush himself was on stage yesterday. And he
joked that he was asked by someone in the hall whether, you know, she said
to him we don`t want a coronation on our side. Like what the democrats are
doing. And he said, rather wryly I know that this isn`t going to be a
coronation. So, it`s clear that this is very much on their mind. And I
would also say that I think Marco Rubio has impacted this race in a fairly
significant way. Especially as it relates to Jeb Bush. He obviously
hasn`t been engaging on questions about Rubio.

They are friends, they text with each other. They`ve known each other for
years. He`s somebody who`s nurtured, Rubio`s career. But when I asked him
about it, I asked him whether or not Rubio should have waited his turn.
And if you just watched the body language, it was very much, hey, Mark is a
great guy but fine. But I think it shows you that there is a little bit of
concern there right underneath the surface.

KORNACKI: Yes. I mean, if this thing is six months from now, one-two in
the polls, Bush-Rubio, I don`t think we`ll going to see much outward love
between two of them. But anyway, Kasie Hunt live in New Hampshire, a big
day ahead up there. Good luck with that. We`ll obviously be keeping close
tabs on it. Thank you very much.

HUNT: Thanks, Steve.

KORNACKI: All right. And still ahead, we will also be taking a look at
Hillary Clinton`s big week out in Iowa. What she said and why she sounded
a lot like Elizabeth Warren?

But first, the big event bringing Mary J. Blige, Gwen Stefani and our own
Thomas Roberts together this morning in Washington. Tom is standing by to
tell us all about it. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: It`s a big day in Washington, D.C. for reasons that have nothing
to do with the capitol or the White House. Thousands expected to converge
on the National Mall today in celebration of Earth Day. Not your average
climate change awareness rally but an event that will future performances
by artist like, no doubt Usher and Mary J. Blige. It is the global citizen
2015 earth day rally.

And MSNBC`s Thomas Roberts is live on the mall getting ready for the
program to begin. Tom, it sounds like a big day ahead there. Tell us
what`s in store.

THOMAS ROBERTS, MSNBC REPORTER: It is going to be a big day and a
beautiful day here, Steve. It`s absolutely fantastic. As you were talking
about thousands, will be here. They`re estimating about 250,000 plus
people are going to turn out for this free and incredible event that is a
combination between the global poverty project and the earth day network.
Now, our buddy over at the Global Poverty Project, the CEO Hugh Evans, he
said all he wanted was the Sunday to shine. And boy oh boy, do we have the
sun shining today for Mother Nature? It`s going to be about 80 degrees
here in Washington, D.C. And as you see behind me, they`re just putting
the finishing touches on the stage. It was just Monday at 12:01 a.m. when
the Cherry Blossom Festival ended, that they started the framework to load
in everything that they needed to put this concert on.

And coming up later today, we have fallout boy, Mary J. Blige. Usher, no
doubt to start the list that they will be playing behind me. You can watch
all of this streaming at Also Soledad O`Brien is going to be
here. (INAUDIBLE) is going to be here. And it all kicks off. And we
invite everybody to come down and check it out. Because it is free. So,
come see us.

KORNACKI: Well, a quarter million people. I say, go ahead and see him but
be careful in the subway it`s going to be a little crowded on there. But
anyway, thank you Thomas Roberts, good luck, have fun there today.

ROBERTS: Yes. Absolutely.

KORNACKI: All right. This programming note that you can start -- excuse
me starting at 11:00 a.m. as Thomas was saying. You can catch the entire
event live on the web. It will be streaming at The address is now on your screen. Still
ahead in the show. Could another moment like this be in store in the 2016
presidential debate?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you don`t care about anything but making money,
there will be a giant sucking sound going south. So if the people -- the
first thing I`ll do is study that 2,000 page agreement and make sure it`s a
two way street.


KORNACKI: Every four years it seems third party candidates locked out of
presidential debates. Sometimes when they get in like Ross Perot they can
steal the show. We will talk about the effort to get a third party
candidate in the debate in 2016.


KORNACKI: All right. There`s a lot going on this morning. Let`s get
caught up with some of the other headlines making news with our panel.
Let`s see what`s in Politico this morning. The headline is Judge Carville.
I hope you saw this yesterday, it leaked out on to the internet that
political consultant James Carville, the Ragin Cajun. He actually filmed
the pilot for a Judge Judy style courtroom show, it`s going to be called
Carville`s court. We actually have one of those clip. Let`s play it.


JAMES CARVILLE, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: My name is James Carville, I`ve been
a teacher, I`ve been an attorney, I`ve been a political consultant. These
are going to be real people with real cases, real decisions. I`ve done
deciding. This courtroom is unlike anything you`ve ever seen on TV and so
am I.


KORNACKI: Now, I reached out for comment about this on Friday, Carville
confirmed that they had filmed the pilot. He said though it`s not a go
right now. We shot a pilot for something we thought we might want to try.
There is nothing more complicated to it. It was decided not to bring it to
TV. Maybe this will change that though. I don`t know.

WILLIAMS: Two things about this story. One, how many more things will we
find out from this? We`ve not read all of it right now. And then, two,
this just proves that we still want to see court TV.


So many different ones on the show but we still want to watch this.

KORNACKI: And I would, I would watch James Carville.

GAGE: I`d like to see him and Mary Matalin doing it together.



KORNACKI: Go pitch that one.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: This show I think is terrible, don`t do the show. But I
will say, I`m done deciding -- from now on.


KORNACKI: Judge Judy as I`m ready to roll.

WILLIAMS: Rolls right off your tongue.

KORNACKI: What else do we have in the news? This is from "USA Today," the
headline countdown to royal baby number two calmer than the first.
Princess William and Duchess Kate, they`re awaiting any minute now I guess
the second royal child, the barricades and no parking signs are up around
St. Mary`s Hospital in London. Observers say, it is not as crazy as last
time when the first royal baby whose name is? Anybody? First royal baby?
Prince George. George.


He was born in July 2013. He made his debut in a blaze of camera. It can
be a boy or girl, everyone I guess?

GAGE: Girl.

KORNACKI: It`s going to be a girl. Princess -- what are we going to call


KORNACKI: Princess Georgina. We are all experts on the royal family here.

GAGE: I`m -- for Catherine Elizabeth, that`s my name and I think that
sounds --

KORNACKI: That sounds more real. Yes. So, Arkansas online. Another
headline this morning. It says that Huckabee circled May 5th in hope as
decision day. This is the former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee
announcing yesterday that he will return to his hometown of Hope, Arkansas
on May 5th to announce then whether he`ll run for president. So, this was
caused all sorts of confusion yesterday. There was word that Mike Huckabee
had an announcement. The announcement was he`ll have an announcement
about what he`ll might announce --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: This is so old-school, like I mean, Ted Cruz did it
right. I`m running for president everybody and he walked off the stage and
he starts running for president. This like I got an exploratory committee,
I got a committee to think about exploring. I mean, this is just seems
like at this point, in this day and age of Twitter and all this stuff, it
takes too long. Just say you`re doing it and get in it.

KORNACKI: Is he going to run? Do you think? Is he in?

GAGE: I think he is going to run.


GAGE: I mean, I think he gave up a pretty nice gig, you know, over at FOX
News. And I think he`s going to run. I think, you know, these guys once
they decide they should be president, they don`t give it up just because
they lose.


KORNACKI: Keep an eye on that. What else do we have? This is from "The
Washington Post," the headline Ted Cruz loves the Simpsons but he botched
his favorite quote. So, Ted Cruz was giving an interview on a conservative
radio show this week. He talked about he`s a big fan of the Simpsons. And
he talked about how his favorite quote was from treehouse of horror seven.
This is an adversary to the show. Which an alien possessed Bill Clinton
says in a stilted campaign speech, tonight I say we must move forward and
not backward, upward not forward and always twirling, twirling, twirling
towards freedom. And Cruz reciting the line but instead of saying,
twirling towards freedom, he said twirling into the future.

GAGE: Boy, what a slip.


MCMORRIS-SANTORO: One of the election parodies ever made, this episode of
the Simpsons. I`m a huge Simpson fan. I think it`s awesome that Ted Cruz
likes it. But, you know, you got to get the quote right. This is one of
the most important quotes of all Simpson`s --

GAGE: Here`s my free tips for candidates --


GAGE: If you`re not cool, don`t try to pretend you`re cool.

KORNACKI: There you go.


MCMORRIS-SANTORO: I really love that popular show. That Cardinals court.
I really --

KORNACKI: Well, he got -- I feel like he should get some credit. I`m one
of these people, it`s like, I know people who quote movies or quote, TV
shows and they get it line for line, word for word. I always botch it.
Even when I`ve seen it a thousand times. I always end up botching it, so.

WILLIAMS: He`s just like us.

KORNACKI: There you go. That`s his way of connecting. Let`s get one more
in here, this is a headline from NBC 4 in Southern California. Where it`s
about 5:30 in the morning. A lot of people I`m sure are watching it out
there right now. The headline, Ben and Jerry`s Craft Brewer team up for
ice cream flavored beer. So, the Vermont base, Ben and Jerry`s ice cream
maker teaming up with Colorado`s new Belgium brewing. And a special
release beer that`s going to be called, get this, "Salted Caramel Brownie
Brown Ale." It`s described as a brown ale laded with chocolatey salted
caramel vanilla goodness. It`s going to come in a 22 ounce bottle, 6.3
percent alcohol. You want to buy L. Joy?

WILLIAMS: I don`t want any of this. It does not sound appetizing. I
would just like another free scoop day.

KORNACKI: There you go.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: One of this time to put the time capsule together. It
was like when America started flirting with legalized pot.


Everyone will know what it was.

GAGE: I would like them to figure out how to make lettuce taste like ice
cream. That is --

KORNACKI: I`m with you on that. And for right now, I`m going to stick
with the bud light. We`ll see. Maybe something else, we`re going to try

Anyway, still ahead, does Wall Street have a problem with Hillary Clinton`s
populist message? We`re going to try to find out but first, President
Obama ran his 2008 campaign on change you can believe in. Will that same
desire for change prompt voters to put a republican in the White House in


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Change we need doesn`t come from
Washington, change comes to Washington.





still stacked in favor of those at the top. And we need to reshuffle the
cards and begin to play a different hand.


KORNACKI: That was Hillary Clinton out on the campaign trail in Iowa this
week. Her first week as an official presidential candidate for 2016.
Clinton making economic equality one of the central focuses of her early
campaign. If you look at the early national polls, the message seems to be
one that is working for her. Let`s call up the big word and you can see,
these are potential matchups between Hillary Clinton and the sort of most
likely republican nominees or the biggest names on the republican side at
least. And you`ve got her ahead there pretty steadily in the high single
digits. But a lot of these likely republican opponents. So, in a way
she`s starting off with an advantage in this race. This is a good place to
be, obviously as we get into another presidential race.

So, we wanted to look at this though and say, what is the one biggest
obstacle for Hillary Clinton. If she does get the democratic nomination,
if she is the party`s candidate against one of these republicans or maybe
one of the other ones. What`s the biggest obstacle she`s going to face?
And what we came up with was the biggest obstacle is history. It`s a very
interesting pattern that`s emerged in this country since World War II.
Excuse me, I got to unselect that first. Since World War II. Let`s take a
closer -- all right, this is actually going to actually work here.

Here we go. Since World War II. So, we`re calling this the two term itch.
And basically what you found is since World War II there`s been a pretty
much unbreakable pattern where one party controls the White House for two
terms, for eight years, then the other party controls it two terms or for
eight years. It almost seems as if voters after eight years they just get
a little tired of the same party running Washington and it turns the other
one. You can see it Eisenhower at eight years replaced by Kennedy, Johnson
replaced by Nixon in `68. Gerald Ford replaced by Jimmy Carter. Six times
since World War II that pattern has happen. Only one time was it broken.
That was when Ronald Reagan, two term republican president was replaced by
a candidate from his own party, his own vice president, George H.W. Bush.

To give you a closer idea of how this works, take a look at the 2000
presidential election. So, this is after eight years of democratic rule.
This is after eight years of Bill Clinton. The country was in great shape
economically. The unemployment rate was under four percent on Election
Day. This had been the longest sustained period of economic growth in
American history. The country was at peace. Peace, prosperity and
approval rating of nearly 60 percent for the incumbent president. And yet,
the vice president to Bill Clinton, Al Gore, he won the popular vote by a
very narrow margin. He lost in the Electoral College. That`s how strong
the appetite for change was. In the face of all of that good news, this
country was still eager or open to having a president from the other party.
Take a look at 1988 now.

This is the one that the Clinton people will tell you they have in mind.
This is the one exception to that pattern when George H.W. Bush, the vice
president under Ronald Reagan -- him. And you can see what was the climate
like would allow that? Well, again, Reagan`s approval rating at the end of
those two terms. Nearly 60 percent. The unemployment rate down about 5.3
percent. And Bush did win that election handily. He really sort of handed
it to Dukakis in terms of the attack he runs against in that fall. But it
is worth noting in the middle of that campaign. There were polls that
showed Dukakis 17 points ahead of Bush. So, again after eight years
despite a strong approval rating for Reagan, there was in that campaign a
strong appetite for change.

So, again, that`s something Hillary Clinton is going to be coming up
against. After eight years, how much is that appetite there just for the
idea of giving the other party a chance? You look at the climate right
now, to put it some context, the Obama`s approval rating sitting here at 48
percent right now. Not as high as Clintons was, not as high or Reagans was
in 1988. But the bottom hasn`t fallen out either. We`re not talking
about George W. Bush in 2008 here. The unemployment rate has fallen of
course down to 5.5 percent right now. So, the possibility, there`s some
decent economic news for Hillary Clinton to be running. And you look at
this as a model though and he could go either way. This could be just
strong enough to give Hillary Clinton that third term or it may not be
strong enough when you look at the historical pattern. So, we were saying,
what is the biggest obstacle for Hillary Clinton as she looks ahead? And I
really think the biggest obstacle is, after eight years of one party in
control, history says this country starts to flirt with the other party.
Will that pattern be broken?

We`ll find out. Still ahead. Wall Street`s surprising reaction to
comments like this from Hillary Clinton.


CLINTON: And there is something wrong when hedge fund managers pay lower
tax rates than nurses or the truckers that I saw on I-80 as I was driving
here over the last two days.


KORNACKI: And next, witnesses say it looked like a scene from a movie.
What was happening moments before a natural gas pipe line exploded in
California? Stay with us.


KORNACKI: This morning. State and federal investigators are trying to
figure out what caused a natural gas pipeline to explode last night in
Central California. Shooting flames into the air more than 100 feet
according to witnesses. It happened at the Fresno County sheriff`s gun
range where investigators say an equipment manager there was using a front
loader to build a dirt embankment when the blast occurred. That operator
and ten prisoners who were doing road work on a nearby highway were
injured. Three of them remain in critical condition.

When we come back, could this famous presidential debate moment have gone
differently, had there been a third candidate on stage?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not like what`s your philosophy and what`s your
position on issues? But can you get things done? And I believe I can.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your opening statement, please, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who am I? Why am I here?



KORNACKI: Remember that? That was Ross Perot`s running mate, retired Navy
Vice Admiral James Stockdale stealing the show in the 1992 vice
presidential debate with Dan Quayle and Al Gore. In that election, 1992
was actually the last time that anyone other than the democratic and
republican candidates was allowed into the debates. For decades now,
control over presidential debates, including who can participate, has been
in the hands of the two major parties, which run the bipartisan commission
on presidential debates. That commission has set some very high entry
barriers for third party candidates. In 2012, the rules stated that any
potential debate participant had to qualify for the ballot in states with
the total of at least 270 electoral votes, in others words at least a
theoretical shot to win the White House.

But the much tougher requirement was this, candidates had to have 15
percent of support in the national polls after Labor Day. Of course, the
argument that third party candidates make as they can only get to 15
percent or more if they`re given a place in the debates and if voters get a
chance to hear them. But now as the 2016 campaign begins, an unlikely
bipartisan alliance is coming together to demand that the rules be changed
to insure that next fall when it comes times for those presidential
debates, a third candidate will be on stage. With the democratic and
republican nominees. That group is called change the rule.

And here to tell us what they are asking for is former Minnesota
Congressman Vin Weber. He`s advised multiple republican presidential
campaigns, he`s currently an advisor to possible, probably presidential
candidate Jeb Bush. He joins us now. Thank you for taking a few minutes
this morning. And we should note you wrote an op-ed this week with former
democratic Congressman Lee Hamilton from Indiana. So, a bipartisan push
you`re making here. So, the basic argument you`re making is, two is not
enough, you need a third candidate up there. From the debates, why?

FMR. REP. VIN WEBER (R), MINNESOTA: Good morning, Steve. The main point
we`re making is that this is not about either political party or about any
candidate. This is about the very health and integrity of our political
and democratic system. We see -- we saw the Gallup poll last year, the
largest number of people in history or the American history identify
themselves as independents. And we find a remarkable 80 plus percent of
the people think that our political system is broken. The national
commission of president debates has done a good job of institutionalizing
debates. It`s almost unthinkable anymore that we would not have the
candidates for present debates and that`s a tribute to what the commission
has done.

But in doing that, they also made it much more difficult for the
traditional role of an independent or third party candidate to emerge.
Because they are not likely to be in those debates. Hence are not looked
upon as credible candidates by people in the media, by donors or by average
voters. So we are suggesting that there needs to be an avenue for an
independent or third party voice to get into those debates. And we have
suggested a mechanism to the commission we`d like to discuss it with them.
Thus far they have not been willing to talk to us.

KORNACKI: The basic idea here as I understand it, is you`re saying whoever
gets the most petition signatures should get the third slot. So, you go
around the country, you have to have petitions to get on the ballot.
Whoever collects the most, it could be four, five, six million signatures
would get in? Is that right?

WEBER: Well, essentially. I mean, when you go around the country,
petitioning to get on the ballot is probably one of the most tried and true
traditional ways. Most states allow you to petition, to get on to a
primary ballot or even a general election ballot. So, we`re suggesting
that a well-regulated and controlled and validated petition drive would
allow one candidate to emerge as having genuine popular support. But let
me also emphasize, Steve, we`re not insistent that`s the only way that this
can happen. What we would really like to have is an open dialogue with the
members of the commission on presidential debates. And if they`ve got
another idea, we`d like to hear what it is. We think this is the best
idea. And as you pointed out, the signatories on the letter to the
commission are not a bunch of rogues. They are people that used to be
active or currently active in the two political parties. They`re people
that I think have proudly define good reputations. We`re doing this
because we think that the political system needs this change.

KORNACKI: Here`s the part -- the problem I see with the idea of
guaranteeing a third slot there. Generally these third parties, take for
instance this, the libertarian party probably ultimately would draw more
republican votes than democratic votes. The green party would probably
draw more democratic votes than republican votes. Basically you create a
competition there where there`s an incentive for the two major parties to
get the one that would draw from the other party into that third slot. So,
if you`re a democrat you`re saying, I want to make sure there`s a
libertarian on that stage. Because that libertarians is going to take
three percent from Bush or whoever.

WEBER: Yes. I understand that argument. I don`t think it would emerge
that way, Steve. I think that the so-called mischief vote that we always
worry about people actually trying to vote for in this case sign a petition
for someone that they`re not actually supporting is really an overstated
phenomenon in American politics. Most people aren`t going to vote for
somebody they don`t believe in and they`re not likely to sign a petition
for someone they don`t believe in. I don`t know who or what kind of
candidate would emerge from this process. But when, as I`ve said, you have
more independents than republicans or democrats. And 80 percent of the
country, they think the system is broken. You ought to at least have a
mechanism to see who would emerge from such a process.

KORNACKI: Let me ask you, L. Joy, as a democratic strategist, and Katie,
as a republican, is this something you would like to see?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it`s also creating another process in which you
have defined in someone deciding who are the people. And so, here we are
deciding who is the one person, you know, that will emerge to represent the
third party candidate or to represent someone other than the two major
parties. And though I identify as a democrat, I really do believe that our
party structure, our two party structure has too much of a hold on our
political system in general. But I would also like to see some variation
in the debate process as well in terms of topics that are cover. Who also
participants in terms of hosting. Even when the voters used to run the
debate at some point as well. And so, there was some variation of the
topics that are covered. I think, you know now people aren`t watching it
that much anymore. Those of us who cover politics daily. Sort of live for
it. You know, like the gain to us. But for the average American they want
to see some variation and difference between the candidates and determine
why they want to support someone. And I don`t think the current structure
allows for that to happen.

KORNACKI: And Katie, quickly, do you think -- would you guys have gone for
this in 2012?

GAGE: I just think that the problems that we`re dealing with have nothing
to do with manufacturing a slot for somebody that has no hope of being
anything but a spoiler. That`s not the problem. I mean, I think, you
know, to your point, the issue is that these debates aren`t interesting.
They`re not, you know, capturing issues that voters care about. You know,
I think what we saw last where, you know, Candy Crowley like inserted
herself and actually may have affected the outcome of the perception of a
debate. To me that`s a bigger problem.

KORNACKI: I still hear that from republicans plenty of times. Vin Weber
we`re out of time here. But I`m glad you`re doing this. Because I agree.
I think back to those `92 debates with Ross Perot. And those certainly
were the most interesting debates that I can remember, a presidential
debates. And obviously, the James Stockdale moment aside. But we`re
having Ross Perot in the stage there, I do think it made very interesting,
it was great discussion we`re having. Vin Weber, former congressman for
Minnesota, thank you for joining us this morning. I appreciate it.

WEBER: Thanks, Steve.

KORNACKI: All right. Another full hour of news and politics is ahead.
Stay with us.


KORNACKI: Is Wall Street ready for Hillary?


KORNACKI: All right. And thanks for staying with us this Saturday

A lot more to get to this hour, including Hillary Clinton`s crazy week in
Iowa. More important than the Scooby van is what the Democratic front
runner said while she was out there. She sounded a lot like Elizabeth

Is Wall Street going to go crazy about that? We`re going to try to find
out in just a minute.

Also, President Obama thinks it`s crazy it`s been more than five months now
since he nominated Loretta Lynch to be his attorney general. And still,
there has been no confirmation. Will Harry Reid be able to force a vote?
We`re going to try to find out.

Speaking of long wait, how long can you wait these days to decide whether
you`re running for president and still have a chance of winning? We`ll
talk about what Chris Christie is doing.

And the host of next weekend`s White House Correspondents dinner, "Saturday
Night Live`s" Cecily Strong is speaking of what she fears most about her
upcoming gig. More on what that is ahead.

Plus, I`m in danger of having to go back into the kitchen on the show this
morning. Congressman Charlie Rangel has convinced me that it`s worth if I
want to eat healthier and lose weight. He will be here to share the
secrets of his own weight loss in a very fun UP kitchen segment that you`re
not going to mess -- miss.

The best assignment of the day has gone to Ronan Farrell who is staking out
Mary J. Blige and Gwen Stefani, all for a really good cause. He will be
along to tell us how it`s going.

But we begin this hour with Hillary Clinton`s campaign, now officially in
its seventh day. The next stop in her slow motion rolled out two days from
today, on Monday, in the first in the nation primary state of New

Now, the first leg of that announcement tour was this week in Iowa. It`s
where Clinton began presenting the teams that she will campaign on for the
next year and a half. One major point of emphasis: income inequality, an
issue now animating much of the left and one that has keyed the rise of one
of the left`s favorite leaders, Elizabeth Warren.


is still stacked in favor of those at the top. And we need to reshuffle
the cards and begin to play a different hand -- a hand that includes
everybody who is willing to work hard and do their part.


KORNACKI: And Clinton also this week writing a glowing tribute to
Elizabeth Warren, as part of "Time" magazine`s new list of 100 most
influential people.

Now, there is no indication that Elizabeth Warren is going to change her
mind and run for president. But Hillary`s actions suggest she doesn`t want
to leave anything to chance when it comes to her party`s liberal base.
She`s made it clear she`ll be reaching out to the Democratic Party`s
progressive wing.

She also this week hired Gary Gensler as her campaign`s chief financial
officer. Now, Gensler is a former financial regulator who pushed for
tougher rules against Wall Street, right alongside Elizabeth Warren.

You might think that this embrace of economic populism by Clinton might
threaten her relationship with Wall Street. Wall Street, after all, has
been a major source of campaign cash for both Hillary and her husband.

But that may not be the case. One Wall Street Democrat telling "Politico"
this week that Hillary`s populist message is, quote, "just politics", that
it can be a good strategy without also being an attack on the rich.


CLINTON: I`m running for president because I think that Americans and
their families need a champion. And I want to be that champion. I want to
stand up and fight for people so that they cannot just get by. But they
can get ahead and they can stay ahead.


KORNACKI: All right. To dissect the role of Wall Street and the Hillary
Clinton campaign, we are joined now, Ben White, chief economic
correspondent for "Politico" and a CNBC contributor. He joins our panel
which also includes Democratic strategic L. Joy Williams, Evan McMorris-
Santoro with BuzzFeed", and Republican consultant Katie Packer Gage.

So, Ben, let me start with you. You`re reporting this week, Hillary
Clinton is talking about income inequality, sounding a lot like Elizabeth
Warren in terms of her themes, and Wall Street`s reaction is no big deal.

BEN WHITE, POLITICO: Yes, they weren`t terribly surprised by it. They
don`t love it, let`s say that, first of all. Nobody in the Wall Street
world loves to get singled out. But they understand she needs to appeal to
the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party, that she`s got a problem
on her left, got to talk about economic inequality.

And the one thing she said, hedge fund managers pay this lower rate than
truckers -- a lot of, particularly Democrats on Wall Street, but almost
everybody on Wall Street realizes the thing she`s talking about, the
carried interest loophole that allows these people to pay the capital gains
rate on much of their income has to go away if you`re going to deal with
income inequality. She`s been in favor in that in the past. That didn`t
come as a surprise.

Gensler, which you mentioned, is a little bit more surprising, and a little
bit --

KORNACKI: Did that change --

WHITE: It changed it a bit.

KORNACKI: Explain the significance of that for a second.


KORNACKI: If nobody knows the name Gary Gensler, what does mean?

WHITE: He`s not a household name, but he`s very well-known on Wall Street.
He was a Goldman Sachs executive for many years, a disciple of Robert Rubin
in the Democratic Party, a deregulator for a long time, and then he came to
Washington as the CFTC chair regulating a lot of Wall Street derivatives,
that sort of thing. He was key in implementing the Dodd-Frank regulatory
reform rule.

He drove Wall Street crazy by very tough on regulatory reform, by saying a
lot of banks wanted to be able to do derivates trades overseas. He said,
look, the U.S. is going to regulate all the stuff whether you do it in the
United States or overseas if you`re U.S.-based bank.

Wall Street didn`t like that. They`re not going to love fact he`s on this

KORNACKI: Do you think -- do you have a sense that his role on this
campaign, is this somebody that Hillary just wants to be able to point to,
to tell the left, hey, look, I`m surrounded by somebody you like? Or this
somebody who`s going to have her ear?

WHITE: Yes, this is the big question. What kind of role does he play?

I talked to a lot of reformers this week who said, great, he`s on board.
We trust him. Elizabeth Warren likes him. But the big question is, does
he have a seat at the table? I mean, he`s on the campaign to deal with
finance, to keep the spending in line on the Hillary Clinton campaign. But
does he advise here on financial reform, taxation, a number of other
issues? Is he a senior advisor?

And the thing with Gensler is, if he`s not, if he doesn`t have a seat at
the table, we`re going to find out. He`s got sharp elbows. He`s either
leave the campaign or start leaking to journalists that, look, she`s not
listening to me.

So, they`re going to have to listen to him. Wall Street does not love
that. They don`t care about the rhetoric. The rhetoric stuff they

KORNACKI: Well, let`s get the panel in. We mentioned Bernie Sanders, he`s
not technically a Democrat, I always point that out. He is flirting with
running as a Democrat in the primaries against Hillary Clinton.

He was asked about Hillary and her rhetoric this week. This was in
Bloomberg. He said, "Is Hillary Clinton or other candidates prepared to
take on the billionaire class? Based on her record, I don`t think so."
That`s Bernie Sanders talking about Hillary Clinton.

Now, Bernie Sanders is not going to defeat Hillary Clinton for the
Democratic nomination. But how worried should -- in 2008, the big
vulnerability for Hillary Clinton among her base was the Iraq war vote.
What I hear now is, it`s Wall Street. It`s her ties to Wall Street, his
husband`s ties to Wall Street.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, BUZZFEED: It`s interesting -- I was actually -- I
have a story up on right now, that I actually talk
today Howard Dean yesterday at an event here in New York, with a lot of
high level progressives in the city. He said the same thing that the guy
told Ben here, but from the other side. He said look, Hillary`s rhetoric
she can`t be as Elizabeth Warren as she want. But trust me, she`s with us
all the way on this stuff. She totally believes --


MCMORRIS-SANTORO: He explained to a voter that because of the way Iowa is,
you can`t say things the way people would want her to say it. So, it`s
interesting both sides of this --

KORNACKI: She`s got both saying --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: The rhetoric --


GAGE: Really, Howard Dean and Bernie Sanders both sides?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Howard Dean isn`t Wall Street.

L. JOY WILLIAMS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Let me interject here and short of
challenge this thought she`s sounding like Elizabeth Warren. I think what
she`s doing is responding to her base and actually all of Americans over 60
percent of Americans who believe that income inequality is a major problem
and it should be a front and center issue in this next election.

Everyone is concern said about their wages. Everyone is concerned about
their income over all. So, this has a -- this is a real problem that
threatens our economy. It`s something that should be front and center in
the presidential election. And so, more than her sounding like Elizabeth
Warren, it sounds like she is listening to her base and the American

GAGE: I don`t think her hedge fund manager son and her daughter -- son-in-
law and her daughter who lives in a $10 million Manhattan apartment are
worried about wages. And so, this notion that she`s coming after the rich
-- I mean, I think she`s still got a pretty cozy position with wealthy
people connected to Wall Street.

WHITE: Right. But a lot of these people on Wall Street are also concerned
about economic inequality. You might not believe it but they are worried
about --

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

WHITE: -- you know, they see as at some point, they`re going to come for
us, and they`re going for us with much higher tax rates. They`re going to
come for us, you know, in ways that we`re not going to like.

KORNACKI: Get a good deal now, before --


WHITE: Exactly. We`re going to get a higher rate on our interest. We
might get a higher marginal tax rate, but let`s not -- you know --


KORNACKI: If Wall Street is not nervous right now about what Hillary
Clinton is saying and they can accept this one tax change you`re talking
about, what would make them nervous? What could she be other saying that
would make them nervous?

WHITE: Well, I see one thing that makes them nervous is her position on
trade. Like, right now, TPP, she came out with this comment that she`s
going to wait and see what`s in that deal for labor and for others. Wall
Street very much wants a trade deal with the Asia Pacific Rim, see that as
a way to, you know, pump up corporate profits and do a lot more trade.

If she were to come out against that, that would cause a lot of angst on
Wall Street. If she were to come out with a higher marginal rate, that
would be a problem. If she were not in favor of corporate tax reform, that
would be a problem.

KORNACKI: More much higher or anything higher than we have right now?

WHITE: Well, anything higher than 39.5, the top rate now, which is
unlikely that she would that. I don`t see her proposing a higher rate. A
higher capital gains rate would be problematic for them, not the carried
interest, but the overall capital gains, which they like to keep where it

But trade, I think is a big issue for them right now. If she decides
ultimately she`s against both trade promotion authority and the
transpacific partnership, that would cause a lot of angst.

KORNACKI: I don`t know much credibility do you think -- I mean, there was
this -- Elizabeth Warren had written a book where she said Hillary Clinton
as a senator, as a senator representing New York was in the clutches of
Wall Street. It was under Bill Clinton, the Glass-Steagall happened. That
was when Democrats and Republicans both voted for.

But can she credibly pull off the message that she`s starting to promote
this week?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Oh, I mean, the liberals who are running against her
don`t think that she can. Martin O`Malley gave a speech this week and the
inspire purpose of the speech was to talk about Glass-Steagall and talk
about raising minimum wage to a very, very level and opposing the trade
deals. They think there is room to get her on this.

But like -- as I was saying, on the other hand, there are progressives who
are supporting her say, you know, this is pretty good. So, the question
is, sort of how it can shake out. But this is definitely where the left
still think they can still get her.

WHITE: And it`s not like unilaterally Hillary Clinton got rid of Glass-
Steagall. I mean, she was not really involved.

KORNACKI: No. It was the name Clinton that was attached to it.

WHITE: It`s something that`s evoked by the left to say Clintnomics in
general is responsible for lowering the wall between investment and
commercial banking that helped create the financial crisis.

But she -- I`ve seen her speak about Glass Steagall a couple of times.
She`s backed off on that. She realizes it`s an important thing for the
left to look at. I think she wants to rebuild some walls between
investment and commercial banking.

But if she were to jump on the rhetoric of break up the big banks that
Elizabeth Warren talks about a lot, then you would have, you know, hedge
fund managers going crazy in the streets and saying --

KORNACKI: Well, it`s interesting, because -- I mean, I think one thing
we`re seeing in this first week with Hillary Clinton is there is a real
sensitivity. She`s not a serious threat right now to lose the Democratic
nomination. But there`s a real sensitivity, hey, the base got us in 2008.
We won`t give an inch this time.

WHITE: This early.

GAGE: She`s going to say just enough to keep any real opposition from
emerging in the primary.

KORNACKI: This is a good example, especially based on what happens
(INAUDIBLE) for that, that reaction from the left.

Anyway, "Politico`s" Ben White, thanks for joining us. I appreciate that.

WHITE: Thank you.

KORNACKI: Still ahead, a veteran U.S. congressman is here to help me with
weight loss tips and eating more fruits and vegetables. We`re getting the
kitchen set up. He has a blender. He`s ready to use it and give some tips
while he`s at it.

But, first, why did President Obama say enough is enough? That`s next.

Stay with us.



Senate unanimously confirmed her to be the head of the U.S. attorney`s
office in two separate occasions, once under President Clinton and once
under my administration. And it`s my hope that the Senate will confirm her
a third time without delay.


KORNACKI: It has been 161 days since that morning back in November. Since
President Obama urged the Senate to confirm Loretta Lynch`s nomination as
attorney general. That is the longest delay to confirm an attorney general
in three decades.

Yesterday afternoon, President Obama said the holdup has gone on long


OBAMA: There are times where the dysfunction is in the Senate just goes
too far. This is an example of it. It`s gone too far.

Enough. Enough. Call Loretta Lynch for a vote. Get her confirmed. Put
her in place. Let her do her job.

This is embarrassing, a process like this.


KORNACKI: The president making those comments with the knowledge the
Democratic leader in the Senate has his back.

On Thursday, Senator Harry Reid telling our own Rachel Maddow that he is
prepared to force a vote.


SEN. HARRY REID (D), NEVADA: We`ve put up for this too long. We need to
have a vote on her that`s created by Mitch McConnell or I`ll create one. I
can still do that. I know -- I know parliamentary procedure around here.
And we`re going to put with this for a little while longer, but not much.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: You have a way that you think you can force a
vote even if McConnell --

REID: Absolutely, I`m going to force the vote. If we don`t get something
done soon, I will force a vote.


KORNACKI: The White House getting an unexpected assist from Jeb Bush, who
on Thursday called on his fellow Republicans to confirm Lynch.

And "The New York Times" reporting today, that Senate Republicans face a
quandary on this issue. On the one hand, they don`t want to reject the
first African-American woman to be nominated to be attorney general. But
they also don`t want to approve a nominee who has voiced support for
Obama`s executive action on immigration, what Republicans claimed is

So, is Loretta Lynch any closer to being confirmed as attorney general?

We are joined by Sahil Kapur, congressional reporter with Talking Points

So, Sahil, that idea that Harry Reid was floating on Rachel Maddow`s show
about himself as the Democratic leader in the Senate forcing this vote --
NBC News has been told by the offices of Jeff Flake and Lindsey Graham, two
key Republican supporters of Lynch, if Reid goes ahead and does that, they
are not with him. So, it doesn`t look like that maneuver could get her
confirmed, what could?

SAHIL KAPUR, TALKING POINTS MEMO: Steve, that`s true. It`s highly
unlikely to succeed, because technically what Reid is saying is true. It
would be unprecedented in modern times for a minority leader to attempt to
basically bypass the majority. But, yes, he can force a procedural vote to
move to the executive calendar where she`s pending. And in order to do
that, he would need 51 votes in the Senate.

Now, the five Republican senators who support Lynch on the merits have been
loyal to McConnell on procedures, and they`re not going to support Reid in
the blatant attempt to undercut McConnell.

The only way she gets confirmed if McConnell decides to put her on the
floor, to have the cloture vote, which needs 51, and the in the final vote,
which needs 51. But he said he`s not going to do that until Democrats drop
their objections a human trafficking bill which has been stalled for about
a month because of some anti-abortion language in there.

The question being whether victims of human trafficking can use
compensation funds collected from perpetrators to get an abortion.
Republicans say that this -- you know, there are long-standing on public
funds being used on abortion. Democrats say this is an expansion of that
existing restriction because these are not taxpayer funds. These are funds
collected from perpetrators. In other words, private money.

So, it`s unclear when or if that dispute is going to get resolved. And
McConnell doesn`t really face any pressure to put Lynch on the floor from
his own -- I`m sorry, from his own base.


KORNACKI: So this is now -- all this like, highly technical Washington
stuff, this is now tied up, as you`re saying with human trafficking bill,
which itself has gotten side tracked by the anti-abortion stuff. Is there
a path for lynch to be confirmed if the human trafficking issue is not

KAPUR: It`s possible. It would require Mitch McConnell to back down in a
major way, because he`s insisted for a month now that he`s not going to
move to Loretta Lynch unless and until the human trafficking bill is
passed. So, it`s an open question. I don`t see him backing down on this.

I think the way this happens is you put the top negotiators, John Cornyn on
the Republican side, probably Patty Murray on the Democratic side and find
a way to slice this in a way that satisfies Democratic concerns, satisfies
Republican concerns.

One way to do this would be to route the money to the appropriations
process, so it technically becomes government money, and that way the
Democrats can save face and say these funds technically the government and
we`re not expanding the Hyde Amendment, abortion restrictions. That would
be one way to do it, but, you know, they`ve been trading offers and the
sparks have been flying for month now and there`s no clear end game at this
point on trafficking.

KORNACKI: Let me bring the panel in.

Katie, let me ask you -- Jeb Bush, coming out and saying to Republicans, a
president should be able to pick his or her own team and say, hey, you
know, if you want an incentive, the sooner your confirm her, the sooner
Eric Holder gets out. What do you think they should be doing?

GAGE: Well, I think Jeb, you know, saw dysfunction happening when his
brother was president. The Democrats weren`t calling for big change on
this front when, you know, they were controlling the Senate, and there was
a Republican in the White House. You know, I think President Obama is
frustrated by this dysfunction on Capitol Hill, he should look nor further
than Harry Reid. Harry Reid soared this up while he was majority leader
and now --


KORNACKI: What should Republicans do right now, because this is where
we`re basically setting a record here for a delay on this?

GAGE: I think the Republicans control the U.S. Senate. And there`s a
system of checks and balances, and they have a right to use the tools that
are at their disposal.

I think ultimately it should come up for a vote. But Mitch McConnell is
the Senate majority leader, and he does have the right to run the Senate
the way he was elected to do. And if he feels the Democrats are playing
hard ball on the other side, he has the right to try to push forward that
agenda as well. It`s going to continue to be a frustrating process.

WILLIAMS: This is completely --


KORNACKI: Hang on a second, Sahil, I want to get Joy in.

WILLIAMS: This is completely ridiculous because not only does the
confirmation -- it doesn`t have anything to do with this bill at this
point. And bring it up for a vote. Let her do her job. This is
completely embarrassing to move this and to tie this, this way. You know,
if it was somehow related --

GAGE: Why is this embarrassing and it wasn`t embarrassing with President
Bush was in the White House?

WILLIAMS: You have a continued pattern of obstructionist behavior in
Congress. It`s a difference between let`s have a discussion and agreement
about her qualifications, let`s have a discussion her --

GAGE: It`s exactly how the Democrats handled it when President Bush was in
the White House.

WILLIAMS: At this point, McConnell needs to either bring it up for a vote,
or say he`s not going --

KORNACKI: We should say he will bring it up to a vote, but again, it`s
tied up with a human trafficking thing.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: I think the problem that we`re having here -- if I
called you up on the day after the election 2014 and said, Steve, the
result of the election will be job security for Eric Holder to have
Republicans on the Senate, you would have said I was crazy, and we`re on
the show again.

The Republicans, what are they winning with this? Like Eric Holder, they
don`t like him. They want him out of -- they want of the Justice
Department for years. This isn`t like, really a political struggle as much
as it is everybody is in a catch-22 situation.

Democrats embarrassed themselves early on with this human trafficking
thing. Their heels are dug in. They made some mistakes on that end. And
now, Republicans are stuck where they will keep Eric Holder, who they held
in contempt of Congress. I mean, enemy number one is going to stay in his
job because they can`t do this to vote. It`s a weird political moment.


KORNACKI: I wonder about, Sahil, is because the Republican objection is
that at her confirmation hearings, she said she supports, believes the
president was justified within his legal rights as president to do his
executive action on immigration. And apparently, because of that, if I`m
understanding this right, that`s where the opposition comes from. What was
he going to do to appoint somebody who said he violated the Constitution?
I mean, that`s what presidents do, they put people who agree with them.

KAPUR: Right, Steve. This is the awkward part for Mitch McConnell,
because there are no strikes against her on the merits. Nobody has
questioned her qualifications. Nobody has questioned her record.

She`s very strong on all those fronts and the Republicans haven`t been able
to find anything against her. The only strike against her is that she
agrees with the president`s policies and it`s a fantasy to think that
you`re going to get someone who doesn`t.

Now, Evan`s point is interesting the longer she waits, the longer Eric
Holder stays -- the problem with that is that conservatives are not
convinced by the argument because they have convinced themselves she`s not
going to be different than holder. As far as Jeb Bush coming out for this,
I think that`s very interesting and it`s very notable, because potential
presidents should be nervous about the idea of, you know, an opposition
party in the Senate holding up their nominees, making them twist in the
wind for five months, even when there are no strikes against her on

So, this is a pretty interesting dynamic. We`ll see what happens. I don`t
think Mitch McConnell can eventually hold out too much longer regardless of
what happens. But I also think this sets a bad tone for the rest of
President Obama`s term in terms of confirming judges and other nominees.

KORNACKI: You`re right, and it`s the idea the precedent for the future,
for future presidents of either party. A nomination was made in November
here we are sitting in late April, less than two years left in the
president`s term, getting to close a year to half.

Anyway, thanks to Sahil Kapur of "Talking Points Memo", appreciate the time
this morning.

And still ahead, is this man running for president? He certainly sounded
like it. He was already campaigning this week. That is coming up.

But first, the new fault line for Democrats.

Stay with us.


KORNACKI: All right. A lot going on this morning. Let`s get caught up
with headlines making news, with our panel.

Let`s turn to "The Hill" newspaper. Headline: Cecily Strong shares biggest
fear ahead of WHCA gig. That would be the White House Correspondents
Association, that big dinner in Washington next week. She is the comedian
who has been hired for that. She says that, quote, "Mainly, I don`t want
anything that`s more hurtful than it is funny. I wouldn`t want to go after
anyone`s children and I don`t want to bum anyone out." She also said that,
"Hopefully, I can skewer myself a little bit, definitely President Obama,
because he`s there."

So, that`s Cecily Strong. We should say that next Saturday, we`ll have
complete primetime coverage of that night on MSNBC, of the president`s
speech, of her act as well.

Let`s see what else we have here? This is from --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: What do you think?

KORNACKI: I think -- yes, it will be tough. Sometimes they pick the wrong
one. But I think she`s going to do a pretty good job.

"The Guardian" this morning tells us Oklahoma governor signs foolproof
nitrogen gas execution method." So, Friday`s signature from Governor Mary
Fallin makes Oklahoma the first state to approve an alternative if lethal
injections aren`t possible either because of a court ruling or a drug
shortage. Of course, drug shortages have been a big problem lately. A lot
of states that have executions, they`re not able to get these drugs from
Europe anymore. They`re looking for alternatives. So, this is a new law
that says the use of a nitrogen in a human is painless. It is a painless
method of execution that requires no medical expertise and to perform.

WILLIAMS: They don`t know, they`ve never tested it. In someone -- I don`t
believe in the death penalty. This is completely disturbing to me, just
that we have to find new ways as human beings to figure out how to kill

KORNACKI: The story we did a few weeks ago. Utah is talking about
bringing back firing squads.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: We`re in a weird startup market for executions because
of those drugs. It`s a weird.

KORNACKI: What can you do and can it not be classified as cruel and

Here`s one from "Politico", Democrats civil war over free trade. We were
getting into this a little bit earlier in that Wall Street segment. The
transpacific partnership, the bill that give the president a fast track
authority to negotiate that, 12-country free trade deal. It`s creating
riffs among Democrats.

A lot of Republicans support the president on this. But the debate has
pitted Reid against he White House, labor unions are against the White
House. Many Democrats still feeling the burn 20 years after NAFTA.

I know you wrote about this at --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Yes, I did a really big story about this with Kate
Nocera, my colleague, my congressional colleague. What`s interesting is
the White House will tell you we`ve always thought Republicans are going to
pass trade. They point out in history, it`s Republicans that drive trade

But we did some reporting and dug in, that they`re actually fighting really
hard against the progressives who are trying to push back on this bill.
Our story opens up with the unprecedented phone call the White House makes
to a state level labor guy, telling them to kind like back off and stop
pressuring his members to vote against this trade deal.

So, it`s an interesting battle because on the one hand, they say
Republicans are what`s going to get this done for them. On the other hand,
they really are having this warfare.

KORNACKI: It`s within their own party, we don`t see that too often.

We have a footage to what other interesting piece of news. Jeb Bush was
confronted with pie in New Hampshire. He`s on the paleo diet. I think you
can see what happened here. He was offered pie in Concord, New Hampshire,
this week and this is what happened?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a special night for the governor. This is
trade night.

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: December? A hard winner in a lot
of ways.

To hell with the diet.



WILLIAMS: Well, two things, one, as a -- you advise your candidate never -
- don`t refuse anything that someone gives you.


WILLIAMS: That`s number one. Two, this is why I don`t believe in diets.
Just eat what you want in moderation.

KORNACKI: I did the paleo diet once for 12 hours. And I can tell you,
when I finally broke it, it was the best feeling in the world.

GAGE: You can`t do it on a bus tour in Ohio and New Hampshire.

KORNACKI: No, it is not compatible with running for president.

Anyway, still ahead, Chris Christie brings some Garden State character to
the Granite State.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Whatever your question is and your
comment is, let me hear it. And I`ll give you my response. In New Jersey
at times, they tend to get a little colorful.



KORNACKI: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie spent three days in New
Hampshire. No, he`s still not ready to say he`s going to run. The likely
presidential candidate says he is confident about his chances.


HUGH HEWITTH: Let me ask you about Mrs. Clinton`s campaign. Can you beat
her, Chris Christie?

CHRISTIE: If I run, I will beat her.


KORNACKI: Christie went on to claim that unlike 2012 Republican nominee
Mitt Romney, he can compete in blue states like Pennsylvania, New Mexico,
Colorado, and New Hampshire. Christie also sharpening his rhetoric against
the possible primary opponent, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

This is what he told Laura Ingraham when asked about the Bush foreign
policy record on Tuesday.


CHRISTIE: He certainly got a father and brother who have a record. I
don`t know what Jeb Bush is going to say about foreign policy. The one
speech he has given so far I thought was rather general and didn`t any
great insight into what he wanted to do. So let`s see what he`s got to say
for himself.


KORNACKI: And this is how Christie responded on Thursday to a question
about Jeb Bush from Matt Lauer.


MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: When you look at a potential run, is he your biggest

CHRISTIE: Well, I don`t know. You would thought when he announced in
December that he would be. But it seems to me that train has slowed down
pretty significantly from what I`ve seen.


KORNACKI: Now, Christie says he may not make an announcement on whether
he`ll run until early summer. Will that be enough time to catch up to the
rest of the field?

MSNBC producer Anthony Terrell was with the governor for his trip in New
Hampshire this week. He joins us from Nashville where that big Republican
presidential forum is going to be picking up any hour now.

So, Anthony, start with Chris Christie, we had Kasie Hunt on earlier on the
show, and she was saying, you know, all things being equal, this was
probably a good trip for him up in New Hampshire.

He got a good pretty response from the Republicans up there. Is that your
sense of it?

ANTHONY TERRELL, MSNBC PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right. That`s right, Steve.
Governor Christie has been at least at eight public events this week, plus
the speech. Everywhere we went supporters would come up and say you have
my vote.

Now, this is a pre-campaign tour of the state. He hasn`t declared.

You know, at that media avail yesterday, after that export tour when
supporters came up to him and said he`s going to get their vote. He asked
about the Jeb Bush comments and he said it wasn`t an attack on Jeb. He
said he has great respect for Jeb. He was a great governor. But we`ll see
what kind of candidate he was.

He also pointed out something about Hillary Clinton, when asked how he
would contrast himself with her, and he said they`re not different
generations. Now, Chris Christie is 52, Hillary Clinton is 67. So, he`s
casting this generational difference as well.

This is part of the straight talk express tour that we saw from `07 from
John McCain. His people are calling it, you know, the Tell It Like It Is

You know, remember, McCain was behind in the polls in 2008, but this state
loves giving people a second chance. And they were -- Governor Chris
Christie was telling it like he was. He was telling jokes about the
Sopranos, about the bridge. One elderly woman asked him about her Social
Security plan and even invited him to come and talk at her rotary club.

KORNACKI: Well, let`s play it. We have a clip here. This was Christie
being asked in New Hampshire, all these Republicans running for president,
if you`re a Republican voter, why Christie and why not the others. What
differentiates you?

Let`s play that.


CHRISTIE: I deal with a difficult Democratic legislature every day for the
last five and a half years, and have worked with them to forge compromise
and to get things done. That looks much more like Washington, D.C. than a
single party state.


KORNACKI: So, Anthony, I know before we got to the whole bridge scandal of
the last year, year and a half, this was supposed to be the Christie
message. It was that he had governed in a blue state. He had won in the
blue state, very big, he would change the map for Republicans. They
wouldn`t have to worry about red and blue states. They could win over the
blue states.

Is that message -- does that still resonate with all baggage he`s taken on
in the last year?

TERRELL: Yes, Steve. Some of the supporters here, some of the attendees
here in the audience have asked Chris Christie how he would govern with
Democrats. That`s something he alludes to, it`s pretty difficult to be
elected Republican in a blue state like New Jersey.

So, he`s using his conservative credentials in a blue state like New Jersey
to give forward that he can govern in Washington, D.C. with Democrats.

Now, they -- Frank Luntz had a focus group, and one of the things kept
coming up, folks saying he has street smarts to fix the problem in
Washington. So, whatever he`s doing in New Jersey is kind of resonating
here in New Hampshire.

KORNACKI: All right. As we`ve been covering on the show, the big cloud
hanging over all this is those indictments on bridge gate. We`ve been
saying them for a while. They with expected in the next week or so. So,
let`s see what happens there. But thanks to MSNBC`s Anthony Terrell in New
Hampshire, appreciate that.

TERRELL: Thanks.

KORNACKI: And next, you might have seen the video of him burning the
calories in spin class. And now you will learn even more about Charlie
Rangel`s tips for losing weight. He is here, the kitchen is fired up and
ready to go.

Be back right after this.


KORNACKI: One of the big surprises of the 2014 elections took place on the
night of the New York congressional primary. Right under a candidate`s
feet. The place was East Harlem. It was a few minutes after Congressman
Charlie Rangel took the stage.


REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: And if you can just have the cameras to
sweep over -- whoa. I was advised some of the heavier people on the stage,
some of the heavier people that don`t need the television cameras to take
safety of ego.


KORNACKI: Now, happily, that stage which almost collapsed did not actually
collapse on election night. And five months later, Congressman Rangel has
more advice for his heavier friends and for himself in his new ebook "The
Rangel Resolution: Smoothies, Oatmeal, Crab Cakes and More." The diet
follows rules. Replace all sugary beverages with water. Eat breakfast
every single and add at least an additional serving of fruits and
vegetables to your daily routine.

Now, that seems easy enough if you happen to like fruits and vegetables.
Joining me to talk me into eating better and maybe to make one of his
recipes, too, we have veteran Congressman Charlie Rangel from New York.

Congressman, welcome to the UP kitchen. It`s good to see you.

I`m looking at your three guidelines there. And I`m 0-3 right now. I have
to say.

RANGEL: Well, first of all, anyone will tell you that having a meal gets
you started. And in addition, I fought weight loss for the last 30, 40
years. I never found anything that I enjoyed like I do smoothies. You
will and everyone will to.

One thing about having breakfast is you don`t starve yourself and panic
during lunchtime. And that`s the big thing.

KORNACKI: Then you overeat.

RANGEL: Exactly.

KORNACKI: And that`s the thing and I`ll be in the convenience store, oh,
these peanut things look delicious. So, let me ask you this, though, what
got you -- what got you interested in writing this? Were you playing
around in the kitchen and you found something?

RANGEL: No, I heard about smoothies, I wanted to change to it. As I kid,
I really loved malted milkshakes. You don`t get them today. They used to
come in a container like this. You put them in, ice cream, malt and sugar.
Everything was there.

But when you get finished with fresh fruit, you`ll find out that it tastes
just like a malted.

KORNACKI: Let`s find out. You`re going to show us how to make this
Charlie Rangel`s tropical smoothie. Take us through what we have to do.

RANGEL: First of all, you should know ahead of time, when you go to the
store and you see brown bananas and something like it, a day old banana,
buy it. If it gets too brown throw it in the freezer because when it gets
in here, it doesn`t make any difference.


RANGEL: When you go to the store you find two big baskets for five bucks.


RANGEL: And you can look and these things cost about $3 a piece.

KORNACKI: We got pineapple here. Strawberries. Let`s put some of these
stuff in the blender

RANGEL: Now, always remember, that you got to have liquid for these things
if you want to pulverize the ice.

KORNACKI: You got to have what?

RANGEL: Liquid. You got to put some liquid in here.


RANGEL: That`s the most important thing. Water, this is ginger tea, which
you get the flavor of ginger.

KORNACKI: OK. Got to put some ice in there?

RANGEL: No, not until you get ready to go to business.

KORNACKI: Still a lot of order here.

RANGEL: No, it doesn`t -- you don`t need any order. We`re going to have -

KORNACKI: All right. So, we got ginger tea, strawberries.

RANGEL: There`s no recipe at all. Whatever you got. Grapes, whatever you
got. This is just quick and easy.

KORNACKI: Bananas.

RANGEL: The bananas, remember, you get them frozen, you get day old
bananas whatever it s. You made it easy for me.

KORNACKI: Put some of these -- can I throw these pineapples in there?

RANGEL: My God, yes, that make as difference. Easy.

KORNACKI: Is that too much? That`s too many? I`d take them out, is that


KORNACKI: All right.



KORNACKI: Put some ice in.

RANGEL: You probably need some more ice. This is --

KORNACKI: Here we go. All right.

RANGEL: Let`s put it down.

KORNACKI: That looks -- it`s getting smoother.

RANGEL: We probably need more ice.

KORNACKI: More ice?

RANGEL: That`s good. This is great. This is going to be so good.

KORNACKI: I don`t think there`s enough pineapple. That my fear.

RANGEL: There is too much or something in here.

KORNACKI: Think we got it?

RANGEL: Just take some of it out.

KORNACKI: Let`s see what we got.

RANGEL: Put more ice in there. You got to make it.

KORNACKI: Let`s test it. We`re running out of time.

RANGEL: Shoot.

KORNACKI: You want me to? Yes.

We`ll share the cup. Why not?

RANGEL: It is delicious.

KORNACKI: You know, it`s not bad? You tell me this is healthy?

RANGEL: More ice will make it even better because it makes it like a
malted milk.

KORNACKI: How about kale or spinach. Ever put that in there?

RANGEL: Yes, yes.

OK. This is goes to be even better. You put yourself in and don`t even
taste these -- side effects. This is absolutely great.

KORNACKI: What was it, put in tea?

RANGEL: Listen, you don`t have -- you can put in a shot of soy milk, you
can put in water, you put a shot of milk. You just need something to make
it easier to liquefy the ice.

But if you like ginger, why not do it? But this is going to be so much

KORNACKI: Let`s pour some or our guest here today. Let`s bring them up

RANGEL: They`re going to love it. OK.

KORNACKI: They`re we go.

RANGEL: You`re going to love it.

KORNACKI: You can wash it down with that.

RANGEL: And you know you guys had a whole bunch of donuts as temptation
for me.

KORNACKI: Can reporters accept gifts from congressmen?

RANGEL: It doesn`t work with donuts. It doesn`t work --


KORNACKI: We`re going to drink this and we`re going to tell you how it is
when we come back.

RANGEL: Talk about it. Is this it?


KORNACKI: All right. Oh, hey there.

Welcome back. We`ve been cooking up a store while you`re gone. I loaded
all the pineapple in here.

So, guys, what do you think?

Katie, what`s the verdict?

GAGE: It`s pretty tasty. I had never thought of adding tea to my
smoothie. I think that`s a great tip.

RANGEL: Ginger. Anything that you like you can throw in here.

And I wrote the book for people who follow my recipe. They`re spending
more time tell me what they`re doing this. You know?

It really means what you like. What you did on the break is throw in more

KORNACKI: I like a lot of pineapple.

RANGEL: And for those who like the pineapple, go for it. You don`t need
all this stuff.

GAGE: Can you add a donut?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: What about a cup of rum? Does it still work with a cup
of rum?

RANGEL: I haven`t tried it. I`m not doing to knock it. I mean, I`m not
going to knock it.

KORNACKI: OK. Does this completely defeat the purpose of the smoothie?

RANGEL: I know what happened. What happened is you guys thought I was
going to come on here and you are going to throw the donuts on me and I`m
going to go for the donuts and blow my whole political career. But it
didn`t work. I saw those donuts.

KORNACKI: Do you want a donut?

RANGEL: No. Don`t need it.

KORNACKI: Can we throw in donut?


GAGE: I think Steve is playing with the blender.

RANGEL: If you don`t like smoothies, you don`t like kale and broccoli, I
don`t like any of them. Throw it in here and drink it and you won`t even
taste it.


RANGEL: Throw it right in here and the fruit juices and all of that just
overcomes the taste of it and it`s healthy. And made for kids. They don`t
even know you`re giving it to them.

KORNACKI: Your book here, is it all smoothie or do you have some food in
here, too? Smoothie guy?

RANGEL: My wife really, her recipe and it`s worked for her all of her life
is moderation.


RANGEL: I don`t care what it is you do in life, you can do anything you
want if you do it in moderation. She does it.

So, she has a baked crab cake in here that`s not going to hurt anybody.
It`s in the book and I cook it and it is absolutely delicious.

The worst thing in the world is a bad crab cake. But a whole lot of
filling and all that stuff. But you need that lump crab.

KORNACKI: I don`t know if I ever had a bad crab cake, actually.

RANGEL: You`ve been in better places.


KORNACKI: No, but in moderation thing, too. That`s my biggest problem.
As I say, I don`t do breakfast and then I just sort of -- well, here`s a
slice of pizza, that was good. Let me have six more. That`s sort of --

RANGEL: Listen, I go to a lot of banquet and food is all around. You have
one of these before you go to a banquet, you`re not hungry. And the best
thing about moderation is don`t be hungry. So, I can run around and shake
hands and, no, I`m OK. The other danger is before you go to bed, for God`s
sake, don`t go for the sandwich.

KORNACKI: Here we go.

RANGEL: One of these are healthy.

KORNACKI: Congressman Charlie Rangel, we`re going to keep the blender
going and we`re going to thank you all for joining us. Thanks for joining

Melissa Harris-Perry, she is next. Turn this on.


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