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The Ed Show for Tuesday, April 21st, 2015

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Date: April 21, 2015
Guest: Richard Trumka, Larry Cohen, Tammy Baldwin, Bob Casey, Karen
Finney, Bob Shrum, Mercedes Schlapp



GOV. SCOTT WALKER, (R) WISCONSIN: They want a new fresh face...

Particular we`re going to support and going to take out Hillary Clinton.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American warships including an aircraft carrier are
sailing off the coast of Yemen...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And looking at the ground zero of the oil spill...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nation, the world didn`t understand how bad this
oil spill was.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

We`re coming down to the wire here on the nation`s capital on the Trans-
Pacific Partnership but of course, it is the TPA, the Trans-Promotional
Authority. This is the linchpin of it all.

Earlier today, President Obama sat dawn with MNSBC`s Chris Matthews and
spoke about the TPP and trade in general. You can watch the full interview
and 7:00 P.M. Eastern on "Hardball" tonight here on MSNBC.

Now the President, out and about selling harder than ever on the TPP.


CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Mr. President, obviously the hot question.
U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren is out there saying things like this about
the trade agreement -- we`re going to talk about today -- it`s going to
help the rich get richer and leave everyone else behind. She also says it
challenges U.S. sovereignty.


MATTHEWS: They`re throwing the kitchen sink at this trade agreement which
will involve 11 nations and ourselves on the Pacific Rim.

OBAMA: Yeah.

MATTHEWS: Why are they saying these things?

OBAMA: Well I guess they don`t want it to happen and I love Elizabeth,
we`re allies on a whole host of issues but she`s wrong on this.

Chris, think about it, I`ve spent the last six and a half years yanking
this economy out of the worst recession since the great depression. Every
single thing I`ve done from the Affordable Care Act, to pushing to raise
the minimum wage, to making sure that young people are able to go to
college and get good job training, to what we`re pushing now in terms of
sick paid leave. Everything I do has been focused on, how do we make sure
the middle class is getting a fair deal?

Now, I would not be doing this trade deal if I did not think it was good
for the middle class. And when you hear folks make a lot of suggestions
about how bad this trade deal is when you dig into the facts, they are


SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. President respectfully, I think that we need a little
bit more devil in the detail and that`s something your administration has
not given this country.

Simply to say that Elizabeth Warren and some others in the Senate are wrong
on something just isn`t enough meat on the bone.

This isn`t about President Obama`s resume. This isn`t about what he`s
done. This is about what the President is about to do. And if he has this
authority, if he goes along with the TPP, it`s irreversible in its damage
to the economy and the President doesn`t answer those direct questions.

Can you guarantee that this will create jobs? Can you guarantee that there
will be no pressure on wages in this country?

Now, I have supported President Obama immensely on many issues but not this
one. The Trans-Pacific Partnership is going to wipe out a lot of good this
President has done if it goes down that road.

President Obama should not have fast-track authority. This Congress needs
to engage and deny it. Just because other President`s have had it doesn`t
mean the conditions are the same. President Obama is siding with the
Chamber of Commerce who fought like hell to make sure that he did get
elected and also siding with people like this.


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: I agree with every word he said in the
speech with respect to trade in Asia and getting in there and helping write
the rules instead of China writing the rules.

The President is in the middle of negotiating a trade agreement with Asian
nations, representing 40 percent of global GDP. This means more jobs for
America. This means more exports for us. This is something we have to get
on top of and I agree with him on that.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: Trade promotion authority allows
the administration to negotiate with our colleagues and allies around the
world to expand trade.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: So I emphatically support the TPA. I support
with TPP. I think we need to be opening markets everywhere.


SCHULTZ: So that`s who the President is hanging out with on this deal.
Now on the other side, you have Elizabeth Warren and every single union in
this country.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMOUNT: I do not believe that continuing a set
of bad policies, policies that have failed, makes any sense at all. We
need a new direction in trade policy and the TPP is not that direction.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: Millions of jobs paying good wages in cities
and in suburbs and in rural America, they simply disappeared. Some of them
lost to technology, far too many have been lost to unfair trade practices
as jobs are moved overseas.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NEVADA: So the answer is, not only no, but hell no.

But no, I`m not going to be doing any single-handed trying to defeat it.
I`ve told everybody how I feel, and that`s the way it is.


SCHULTZ: So the President`s challenge here is to prove that this will not
shift jobs overseas and he can`t do that.

Meanwhile, history tells us, U.S. trade agreements are bad for American
workers and the economy. There was a ledger. There is a history here.

Earlier today, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka testified during the Senate
Finance Committee hearing on trade.

Trumka said, "This is about the TPP and jobs."


RICHARD TRUMKA, AFL-CIO PRESIDENT: On Climate, without a border
adjustment, TPP will not stop manufacturing from closing up shops in the
United States, moving to TPP countries with no carbon reductions scheme.
In fact, we don`t encourage China, not a member of this agreement to move
during manufacturing plants to countries that are partners to this and be
able to send dirty products back here to the disadvantage of American


SCHULTZ: Trumka and other union leaders have a number of other concerns
with the TPP. The deal doesn`t address currency manipulation. The deals
investors` state dispute settlement would allow multi-national corporations
to undermine American law.

Now, think about that. Does that sound good? Does it sound good that the
people that work in this building behind me would really have no say over
authorities from another country that want to do business in America and
because they`re not making the kind of profit they want to make. They can
stick to us legally and we can`t do anything about it?

Let me ask you a question; let`s play to the common sense of the American
jury here? Does that sound good?

Sen. Elizabeth Warren said, this provision would "allow foreign companies
to challenge U.S. laws and potentially to pick up huge payouts from
taxpayers", that would be your dollars folks, "without ever stepping foot
in the United States Court".

So we`re talking about due process here and circumventing American law. I
ask you the question again tonight, does that sound good?

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said, the TPP could gut state

There are still concerns with labor practices, environmental regulations
and transparency in the whole deal. Why is it that people on Capitol Hill
haven`t been a part of this?

As we`ve heard from Labor Union Leaders on this show on the past,
enforcement is going to be next to impossible.

This country doesn`t have a history of telling other countries how to
handle their workforce. So how are we going to do that? Just because
Barack Obama has trade promotional authority?

This deal will high-jack 40 percent of the global economy. There won`t
have to be in the other trade deals after this and there is nothing we`re
going to be able to do about it if it`s bad, which it is.

Fast-track would prohibit Congress from making any changes to the trade
deal. Now, Congress should have the right to make changes. I mean, what
the heck, it`s a massive trade agreement that`s what you elect them for,

Now, on the flipside, President Obama is making the arguments like this.


OBAMA: What we are doing is negotiating the highest-level, highest-
standard trade agreement in our history, with strong enforceable labor
provisions, strong enforceable environmental provisions. And I will be
able to show when the final agreement is presented that this is absolutely
good for not just American businesses, but for Americans workers.


SCHULTZ: Strong enforceable. Interesting. The President is saying trust
me. Trust me across the board. I know that all the unions in America are
wrong because they are against the just on principle and the President said
that. That`s still lack of meat on the bone. So he`s saying trust me.

Key words there, when the final agreement is presented, by that time folks,
it`s going to be too late.

President Obama and opponents of this trade deal need to prove right now
this deal is good for American workers in the economy. So far, they
haven`t done that. They can`t do it.

And you know there`s a focus on unions in this but it`s just not unions,
it`s every worker in America that works anywhere for a wage, because your
wage is going to be challenged by multi-national corporations that will not
invest in the American economy. They`re going to go where someone is going
to work for nothing and I haven`t heard the President answer that question.
I hope he does tonight.

Get your cell phones. I want to know what you think and this is about the
American public tonight.

Ask yourself the question, "Do you feel you know enough about the TPP and
Trade Promotional Authority?"

You need to go to to cast your vote and I`ll bring you
the results later on this shoe. That`s the profound question. Do you
think you as an American taxpayer know enough about the TPP and Trade
Promotional Authority?

Let me bring in Richard Trumka President of the AFL-CIO and Larry Cohen
President of the Communication Workers of America. Gentlemen, great to
have both of you with us tonight.

TRUMKA: Ed, thanks for having us on.

SCHULTZ: OK. Mr. Trumka, you first.

Enforceable, I need you to explain where this is enforceable as opposed to
other trade deals because the President says it is.

TRUMKA: This is no different than the same agreement that George Bush
negotiated on May 10th. It`s called the May 10th agreement.

It gives us no enforceable rights and additional rights. And we were told
by the general council of USTR, one of the labor advisors that violation --
murdering a trade unionist or having violence against unionist does not
violate these trade agreements.

There`s no rights to be enforced here. It is what it`s always been, and
that`s a lot of talk.

Employers, companies can use this ISDS system to file cases themselves.

SCHULTZ: Investor-state trade dispute.

TRUMKA: Correct.

SCHULTZ: So, in another words if someone doesn`t like what`s going on, and
they challenge it what`s the recourse?

TRUMKA: Well, they can go through the courts, and if they lose to the
courts, they go to a private secret tribunal, and they can do -- they can
overturn it, and give them profits. With us, we have to wait for a
government to do this.

Now, we did it with Guatemala. It`s going six years right now. We did it
in Columbia. And since the labor chapter is written there, now we -- they
were told us it was strong, it was enforceable, it was protectable. Since
that has happened, 105 trade unionists had been killed in Columbia, and
there`s no recourse.

SCHULTZ: Is this a race to the bottom? I don`t want to overstate the fact
that this is an attack on wages, and investment won`t be in America. It
will be where the cheap labor is.

TRUMKA: Look...

SCHULTZ: Is that correct?

TRUMKA: This agreement covers 40 percent of the world`s GDP. It is
designed to expand so that any other country can come in to this, into this

It`s probably the last agreement, or could be the last trade agreement we
will negotiate. It is flawed, it will result in outsourced jobs. It will
result in people losing work.

SCHULTZ: Now, the President said in an interview last week that these
outsourced jobs have -- that`s already taking place. I mean...

TRUMKA: That`s true. We`ve lost 60,000 -- factories have closed under
these trade agreements.

That`s true. There`s a lot that has taken place but there`s still a lot of
them out there that we want to save, and we want to bring back.

It doesn`t address currency manipulation, Ed.

EPI says that if they address currency manipulation, we could get 5.8
million jobs back that are wrongfully stolen from us because our trading
partners are cheating on us. This doesn`t even address that.

SCHULTZ: That`s one of the things, Mr. Cohen, is -- what we`ve seen in the
past is to get restitution on bad trade deals.

We have flawed laws of the past, don`t we?

absolutely. And as Rich said, we get reports, very long reports on
Honduras, on Guatemala on our own situation. They get reparations.

And I was encouraged to see that in Hillary Clinton`s new book. You have
to read (ph) through it, on page 509, she questions investor-state dispute
settlement, and says we need to look at equalizing the kinds of protections
citizens have and businesses have.

So, I would agree with Secretary Clinton, Senator Warren, and 85 percent of
House Democrats who say to this President. Mr. President, we say no to
fast track. Why should we be the only democracy in the world that has fast

The other 12 countries, eight of them are democracies, they don`t have fast
track. Their parliament gets to take it apart, look at it, and decide
whether they`ll agree with it, or want to change it.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Cohen, what`s your response to the sound bite that we just
played from the Chris Matthews interview with the President where he says
"basically trust me"?

He says if I didn`t think it was good, I wouldn`t go down this road. And
then, he talked by his ledger, and his resume about how he`s fought for the
middle class his entire presidency. What about that?

COHEN: I have said to him, we have said to him, it`s not about trust, it`s
about participation, and it`s about results.

We know how to read the language, all 1,200 pages although we haven`t seen
much of it, and we know what enforceable means about the environment as

I mean our coalition is millions of environmentalists, students, every
immigrant rights group, it`s not just the labor and none of us agree with
him and 85 percent of House Democrats say no to fast track.

SCHULTZ: All right. Mr. Trumka, the Chamber of Commerce tweeted out
today, nearly 40 million American jobs depend on trade.

TRUMKA: Well, that`s true, but you`re going the wrong direction.

He also said that we had a positive trade surplus today when in fact we`ve
had $500 billion trade deficit year after year after year after year.

Ed, for every $1 billion in trade deficit, you lost 12,000 to 13,000 jobs.
You do the math. Multiply 12 to 13 by 500 and you`ll get how many jobs are
lost on a yearly basis.

SCHULTZ: So our trade deficit with South Korea has also skyrocketed.

COHEN: Doubled since we signed that agreement.

TRUMKA: 60,000 jobs lost to South Korea just since we`ve signed that

SCHULTZ: All right. Now, let me talk about the politics to this. Let me
ask you this. If Barrack Obama had been talking about this on the campaign
trail, what would have that done to middle class families? What would that
have done to union support? And I think, we can make the case that had he
not had union support in Ohio and Pennsylvania and some other areas in the
country -- Michigan, he might not have been reelected or elected to beat
John McCain to start with.

Would that have change the equation on your support and either with your

TRUMKA: It would have changed the equation with our members because they
know -- they felt the sting of bad trade deals.

And, let me just make one point, Ed. They tried to make the case that this
is either TPP or nothing. It isn`t that at all. You can have trade with
the company that have good trade rules with that country.

Our members have felt the sting, 60,000 factories have closed in this
country since the year 2000. That`s hurt our membership, and if this
position has been brought out, it would have made it far more difficult for
us to mobilize our members, and to get them out to the polls. They may
have not voted for the other candidate but they would not have voted.

COHEN: And since the entire base of the Democratic Party -- I wanted to
just say that again -- all the environmental groups, immigrant rights, the
whole base, and 85 percent of House Democrats say no to fast track. That`s
where we are as well. It`s all of us.

SCHULTZ: All right. Richard Trumka and Larry Cohen, gentlemen thanks for
being here tonight.

TRUMKA: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: The battle continues here in Washington. No doubt.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at We`ll have
the results for you after break. Follow us on Facebook. And watch my
Facebook feature, "Give me a Minute". And you can get my video podcast

We`ll have more on the trade deal, and what it means for the backbone of
American manufacturing. Hillary Clinton is weighing in. Senator Bob Casey
and Senator Tammy Baldwin join me live.

Plus, big money and the race for the White House.

Keep in here. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Here we -- here`s where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll.
Do you feel you know enough for about the TPP and trade promotion

Well, 89 percent of you -- 90 percent of you say "No".

We`re coming right back from the nation`s capital here on the Ed Show.
Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we are back. If the Trans-Pacific Partnership is approved,
it will impact every aspect of the American economy, technology, the
pharmaceutical industry, manufacturing, media, agriculture, steel
production, electronics. Wall Street loves it and even mining is going to
be affected. When 40 percent of the global economy is involved everyone
has a stake in the deal.

For more, let bring in Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, also with us
tonight Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, great to have both of you with
us tonight. Senator Baldwin you first, do your residence and your
constituents in Wisconsin know what trade promotional authority is, has
there been a lack of knowledge amongst the American public as to the
severity and the impact of this decision.

SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN, (D) WISCONSIN: Well I think my constituents have vivid
recollections of the last go around of this. They remember very vividly
NAFTA and the, you know, the fast track authority that went before that.
So, those recollections are vivid, they`re very curious about whether this
has changed at all in the year since. And I`m going to be sad to tell them
that I really don`t think it has change.

And not only is it frustrating that the fast track hasn`t kept up with the
times, but in terms of trying to understand what`s in the TPP, what`s in
the trade agreement that`s being negotiated with the European Union that is
next to impossible even for senators, let alone the constituents that I
represent Wisconsin.

SCHULTZ: Senator Casey if it`s hard for senators understand because of
lack of access to exactly what`s in the deal your going to be trusting the
president of the United States with the real leap of faith if people in the
senate go along with this.

SEN. BOB CASEY, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: I think people in Pennsylvania just like
in Wisconsin or anywhere else expects us to make sure that they have the
information they need. Unfortunate the process has been so rushed of late
that you can`t often get the kind of information out do you want to. We`ve
got to use this time that`s why your shows is so important to make sure
that people know this is really in the end, whether it`s a trade promotion
authority debate or the agreement itself, the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

That it`s really comes down to a couple of words, jobs and wages. And I
think once people have the facts, then they`ll understand our point of

SCHULTZ: What do you think of the President`s sales pitch saying -- his
interview with Chris Matthews, he`s basically saying trust me because I`m
always been for the middle class, my whole presidency. I won`t do this if
I didn`t think it was good. Is that enough?

CASEY: Well, no it`s not enough and nor would be enough (inaudible), but
here`s what this is, this is a very, very important debate about this
issues, about what will happen at the end of this with regard to jobs and
wages. I`ve seen what happened just as Tammy has it in her state in
Pennsylvania after NAFTA and all the agreement since then. The job loss
and the job loss are results not just from trade and trade negotiations.

What happens when China joins the WTO as they did years ago? The impact on
our state in the six figure job loss meaning over 122,000 jobs lost. So,
this is very important, a very important debate even when we have
disagreements within the Democratic Party. We`re supposed to have debates
like this.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Senator Baldwin taking a look at what the President is
saying, there`s not much detail in his answers. I mean he`s very coy, he`s
saying trust me, you know, look at my presidency. Is that enough? I`ll
ask you the same thing, is that enough? Because that seems to be the
primary sales pitch at this point.

BALDWIN: Right, and that`s what the President is saying, we now have
legislation to review. And I would say, you can`t even trust that. They
talk a lot about the objectives in the negotiations. Those are just
objectives, those are instructions to the negotiators but there`s no
guarantee that TPP or successor trade agreements will actually contain
provisions that makes those objectives real.

Also on enforcement, and you just had a great discussion about the lack of
enforcement. How can you trust if there`s not tools and teeth to be able
to make sure that commitments made, our commitments going to be intact

SCHULTZ: OK, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, two very important states of the
Democrats in 2016. This is the President addressing the TPP and the threat
of outsourcing of jobs, here it is.


OBAMA: Companies that are looking for just low-cost labor, they`ve already
left. We`re already at a disadvantage, right now. And the trade agreement
I`m proposing would actually strengthen our ability to force other markets
open and strengthen our position compared to where we are right now.


SCHULTZ: And will workers in your states buy that? And that`s the
fundamental point isn`t it Senator?

BALDWIN: Well it`s not about buying the rhetoric it`s about living with
the consequences of what we do here. And I`m very concerned that if we
eventually see an agreement like TPP come to fruition that we are going to
see a significant job loss in a manufacturing state like Wisconsin, where a
significant sector of our economy still makes things.

I think we`ll see an unleveling of the playing field. And frankly
provisions like "Buy American" where we use taxpayer dollar just for
American jobs, will be very weakened by this type of trade.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on that Senator Casey...

CASEY: What...

SCHULTZ: ... "Buy American", would this really be the end of an effort to
make sure that that happens?

CASEY: One thing I (inaudible) by America in the finance committee, we
have this debate about trade promotion authority. I think Ed, the bottom
line here in terms of jobs and the impact on wages, we would be having a
different discussion today if we had confidence to this process would lead
to a level of the playing field. In other words, our workers can
outcompete anybody in the world if given that level playing field, these
agreements don`t do that.

SCHULTZ: OK, Senator Bob Casey, Senator Tammy Baldwin, great to have you
with us tonight, I appreciate it so much.

Coming up, why U.S. warships are heading to the coast of Yemen.

And later, a billionaire backer gives us the real scoop behind reports and
he`s endorsing Scott Walker for president.

Keep it here, we`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed show. Unrest is mounting in Yemen civil
war. Now a U.S. warship is heading to the region, the possible showdown
comes at a sensitive time of American-Iranian relations.

NBC`s Brian Moore has more.


BRIAN MOORE, NBC CORRESPONDENT: With Yemen descending into civil war.


President Obama ordered the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt and guided-
missile destroyer Normandy to join an international blockade.

The goal, preventing Iranian armed shipments. But the White House still
negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran is playing down in unwritten

specific mission of the Roosevelt, is to ensure the free flow of commerce
and the freedom of navigation in this region of the world.

MOORE: The humanitarian crisis in Yemen is escalating as Houthi rebels
backed by their fellow fire their fellow Shiites in Iran battle the
government, Sunni supported by Saudi Arabia.

our forces offshore, not allowing for more weapons to come into the fight.
Hopefully, we`re sending a pretty strong signal that ultimately the best
fast forward here is talks and diplomacy rather than escalation of this
proxy war.

MOORE: But it`s not without risk.

of chicken. Will the Iranians in affect continue their arms role (ph)?
Will they try to break this blockade and will in effect the United States
carry out its threats?

MOORE: A military show of force and yet restoring peace in Yemen.

SCHULTZ: Steve Clemons, MSNBC Contributor and Editor-at-Large for "The
Atlantic" joins us tonight.

Steve, how can this not affect or have some kind of profound effect on the
nuclear talks? Your thoughts?

STEVE CLEMONS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Ed, I know it will color the environment
and I know it`s hard for some people to understand why this wouldn`t
possibly derail the talks. But the fact is, even with the Soviet Union, at
the worst of our relationship we were still negotiating arms deal.

We`ll put this into different boxes because securing a strategic deal with
Iran has a certain place high in a hierarchy of our national security
interest. This also matters but it will be offset by the informal working
together that we`ve been doing with Iran against the ISIS in Iraq.

So, I know it seems like it should be related but we`ll keep this in
different boxes and we have a legacy of having done that with other
geostrategic challenges, particularly the Soviet Union.

SCHULTZ: All right, Steve Clemons with us tonight. Thanks so much for

CLEMONS: Thanks Ed.

SCHULTZ: Stick around. Rapid Response panel is next here on the Ed Show.

We`ll be right back.

JULIA BOORSTIN: I`m Julia Boorstin with your CNBC Market Wrap.

Stock end mixed, the Dow falls 85 points, the S&P 500 is down 3 and the
NASDAQ adds 19.5 points.

Chipotle (inaudible) earning the beat estimates but revenue in same store
sales fell short. Shares are sharply lower after hours.

Yahoo reported revenue and profits that miss target. The stock has also
been taking a hit in late trading.

And unemployment fell in 23 states last month. 12 states got increases and
levels were unchanged in the remaining 15.

That`s it from CNBC, First in Business Worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Hillary Clinton is facing new
questions about her time as Secretary of the State.

A soon-to-be published by a conservative writer is accusing Clinton of pay-
for-play tactics, the books says foreign governments received favors from
the state department if they donated to the Clinton Foundation or higher if
(ph) Bill Clinton as a speaker.

Here`s where Karl Rove said about the book.

Schweizer is a very meticulous detail oriented person, he`s got a good
reputation as a conscientious researcher, and a careful writer, and my
suspicion is that when this book is fully revealed on May 5th, this is
going to cause a lot of image (inaudible) Clinton...


SCHULTZ: Hillary Clinton responded when she was asked specifically about
the pay-for-play allegations.


HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SEC. OF STATE: It is the -- I think worth
noting that the Republican seem to be talking only about me.


SCHULTZ: Meanwhile on the Republicans side, big donors are choosing their

The New York Times is reporting the Billionaire Koch Brothers are ready to
back Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

We reached out to David Koch, he sent back this statement.

"While I think Governor Walker is terrific, let me be clear, I am not
endorsing or supporting any candidate for president and this point in

Joining me tonight Karen Finney, Seniors Spokesperson for "Hillary for
America", great to have you with us Karen.

with you.

SCHULTZ: This book. Is it going to cause consternation within the Clinton
camp and a problem on a campaign trail, what do you think?

FINNEY: I don`t think so. And look, we paint it clear, we`re going to
fight back but we`re going to also try to make sure that our campaign and
Hillary stay focused as she talked about, talking about issues, talking
about people`s concerns.

I mean, you raise some of the concerns and some of the questions that have
already been raised about Schweizer and his accuracy, shall we say. So,
you know, and he even admitted, and this is one of the things I think is
very important. He A, has admitted he has no proof and he -- B, makes
these sort of insinuations out of this kind of partisan-fueled fiction and,
you know, for example he tries to insinuate something with regard to the
Columbia Free Trade Agreement. Well, that was an agreement that a priority
of the administration.

Secretary -- when she was Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton was not the
person sort of making the decision, yes or no.

So there are a lot of things, it`s my understanding like that in the book
where he tried to make this insinuations and I think --while it maybe a
flash in a pan I just don`t see this, you know, cut -- being what they are

SCHULTZ: Well, is Hillary Clinton going to get into the habit of
constantly answering a question about this book in these allegations,
connection between pay-for-play? Or, is she going to be done with it at
some point?

FINNEY: Well, you know, I think that`s part of what the campaign is for.
I mean she addressed it as you pointed out earlier this week. And again, I
think that the issue here is, you know, this seem to be accusations that
are not actually based in fact.

You know, again it sort of partisan fiction. And so, we`re going to try to
make sure she is able to stay focused on -- I mean she made the best point,


FINNEY: While the Republicans want to talk about her, she wants to about
ideas. Why don`t they talk about some ideas? Why don`t they talk about
small businesses and education and their ideas for this country?

SCHULTZ: Lots of conversation about trade in this town right now and --
weighing in for or against the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Hillary Clinton
commented earlier today. Here`s what she have to say and what your



CLINTON: Any trade deal has to produce jobs and raise wages, and increase
prosperity, and protect our security. And we have to do our part.

We need to make, being middle class mean something again. We need to
elevate work that is meaningful, that can be done to further our economy,
our manufacturing sector. We need to...


SCHULTZ: Karen, what is Hillary Clinton`s position on Trade Promotional
Authority and the TPP? I mean it sounds like she`s favorable to the middle
class there.


SCHULTZ: But, it -- where`s the absolute? Is she for or against it?

FINNEY: Well, I think, the absolute, Ed, is because we don`t have final
language, and I think she believes that let`s see what actually ends up in
the deal, but I think, we`re -- what the absolute is that the conditions
that you heard her just talking about right now, in terms of protecting
wages, protecting labor, their are environmental concerns, their are
concerns about currency manipulation, and then, she talks about...

SCHULTZ: OK. So, is she for or against it? I mean, she doesn`t have
enough information at this point to make a decision. I mean, you know...

FINNEY: Well, I think, she`s...

SCHULTZ: ... there`s a lot of people that are wondering, where is she is
going to come down on this?

FINNEY: Well, I hear you, but again, I think, the point that she is made
is any trade agreement has to meet these two conditions. And I -- and, you
know, your guests even pointed out. Let`s see what`s in the final
agreement. What is the language, because that`s what really matters, and
that is the point that she has made.

SCHULTZ: All right. Karen Finney, great to have you with us.

Joining me tonight on Rapid Response panel Bob Shrum, Professor of Politics
at USC, Democratic Strategist, also with us Mercedes Schlapp who is a
Republican Strategist and Former Spokesperson for President George W. Bush.

Mercedes, is this going to be a problem, this Clinton Connection Foundation
to be campaigned?

distraction for the campaign. I`ve been on a presidential campaign before,
and anytime, when you`re not a candidate, is not able to talk about the
issues, and really the messages that they want to push through to the
American people. It becomes a bigger issue.

What we know about Peter is that he called cause havoc with his former
books of extortion, and throw them all out in Capitol Hill. So, I can
right now that the campaign, the Clinton campaign is panicking.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, how does she manage this at this point?

don`t think she`s panicking. Secondly, this is the phoniest scandal of
all. It`s funded by Rupert Murdoch, flocked by Rupert Murdoch, published
by Rupert Murdoch.

I think that there is absolutely no evidence of any quid pro quo from the
state department in return for money given to the Clinton Global

There are -- people have raised the question of disclosure which was agreed
to and she became Secretary of State. So, take the example of Algeria.
Gave $500,000 to the Global Initiative to help the victims of the
earthquake in Haiti, inadvertently not reported to the State Department,
but it was right up there on the Clinton Global Initiative website.

SCHULTZ: What about that, Mercedes?

SHRUM: No one was trying to hide it.

SCHULTZ: What about that?

SCHLAPP: Well, they did determine that there was a violation of the ethics
agreements. So, here is just...

SHRUM: Was it disclosed? Mercedes, was it disclosed?

SCHLAPP: But at the end, well, I think...

SHRUM: Was it disclosed and what was the quid pro quo Algeria got? Name
one quid pro quo Algeria got.

SCHLAPP: No. That`s, I mean, that`s a good point but we got to go back to

SHRUM: It is a very good point.

SCHLAPP: ... of the point -- of the fact that, you know, you`re talking
about -- that the fact that this focus going to just be a distraction for
the Hillary campaign.

SHRUM: I don`t think they`re going to get...

SCHLAPP: At the end...

SHRUM: They`re not going to get distracted.

SCHLAPP: At the end, then, you have a New York Times.

SHRUM: They`re going to keep going straight ahead.

SCHLAPP: Bob, when you have the New York Times and the Washington Post
that have these agreements with this author, and with the publisher,
basically, saying, let`s look into it. Let`s see if we can focus (ph) into
his research. I think that`s going to determine a lot in terms of what`s
going to becoming out.

SHRUM: You know, this...


SHRUM: Yeah. This guy has a long record of retractions and bad stories.
He had this story about the French recruiting a spy from inside the British

The London Times looked at it. It completely collapsed but this will be
the pattern of the attacks against Clinton. It always has been the

And you know what, Ed? Ever since the e-mail scandal, CNN went out and
polled, and Hillary Clinton is leading every Republican by at least 14

SCHLAPP: That`s coming from Florida, Colorado.

SHRUM: ... leading Jeb Bush by 17, and leading some of them by 20.

SCHLAPP: That`s not true.

SCHULTZ: All right, we have to it there. Bob Shrum and also Mercedes
Schlapp, great to have both of you with us tonight.

BP has done a great job promoting its recovery efforts to the Gulf coming
up. We`ll bring you the real stories.

Stay with us. We`ll be back on the Ed Show.



H. ROSS PEROT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE 1992: If you`re paying $12, $13, $14
an hour as a factory worker, and you can move your factory south of the
border, pay $1 an hour for labor, hire a young -- let`s assume you`ve been
in business for a long time. You`ve got a mature workforce.

Pay $1 an hour for your labor, have no health care -- that`s the most
expensive single element in making the car. Have no environmental
controls, no pollution controls, and no retirement.

And you don`t care about anything but making money. There will be a job-
sucking sound going south.


SCHULTZ: Ross Perot sounded the alarm on NAFTA`s economic impact more than
two decades ago.

Now, a new trade deal that will impact 40 percent of the world`s economy is
up for congressional approval.

Tonight, President Obama will make the case for the Trans-Pacific
Partnership. We`ll hear it first here on MSNBC.

The President sits down exclusively with my colleague Chris Matthews
tonight at 7:00 P.M. Eastern to discuss the trade deal, and a host of other

Stick around. There`s a lot more coming up at the Ed Show after this.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight. Five years after the Deepwater disaster
sent millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, BP says it is
still committed to the region`s recovery.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I grew up in Louisiana so I care deeply about the gulf.
Five years ago we made two commitments to help the gulf recover and become
a safer company. BP has spent nearly $28 billion so far to help the gulf
economy and environment. And we toughen safety standards too including
enhanced training and 24/7 onshore monitoring of our wells in the gulf.
I`m proud of the partners be made both in the gulf and inside BP.


SCHULTZ: While BP has pledged billions of dollars for recovery efforts,
the damaging affects of the spills still linger. Earlier this year I
visited what remains of Cat Island, a barrier island that felt the full
impact of the spill. Locals are fighting to save this critical piece of
the gulf`s ecosystem.


PJ HAHN, PELICAN COAST CONSULTING: The nation the world didn`t understand
how bad this oil spill was.

SCHULTZ: The images were iconic Louisiana`s state bird covered in oil as
symbol of the gulf disaster. PJ Hahn was there to document it.

HAHN: Immediate we get out there before the workers would get out there
and once they started seeing these poor birds covered in oil gasping for
air and those pictures came back we said, yeah we`re going to get some

SCHULTZ: Authority`s did not want the media to see that did they?

HAHN: They absolutely didn`t want us to see that and as an amateur
photographer, so to speak, I was out there photographing taking photographs
and I had a lot of the media with me and we happen to catch some birds in
oil that were trap in the oil, covered in oil.

SCHULTZ: So if that story had got out, there may have been war of
intensity to save Cat Island?

HAHN: I believe that more intensity to get more equipment down here
because we were being told there`s a lot of equipment. The problem is,
they would leave land load up there boats and by time they got on the water
it was 11:00 in the afternoon the morning, and then they only work `till
4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon. By time it got dark they we`re coming as
back off. Now the locals, the people that were locally hired, those guys
worked `till middle of the night, they wore lamps on their head just to go
out and collect the oil.

SCHULTZ: Off the coast of Louisiana barrier islands provide a sanctuary
for wildlife.

HAHN: Little groups of islands, they were anywhere between four to six
acres in size and, it was pelican and various other types of birds, even
some of endangered species that were using those islands to nest. The
birds use those islands because they are far away from any type of
predators. Now they had seven to eight foot mangrove trees on this
islands, they were so thick as a matter of fact you couldn`t get on to the
island, you can only drive around the islands, you couldn`t actually get on
the islands and it was covered with birds.

SCHULTZ: Cat Island was one of the barrier islands off the coast of
Louisiana that saw the most damage from the oil spill.

HAHN: Cat Island is ground zero to the oil spill that there`s a series of
barrier islands that prolong (ph)Louisiana coast, what happened was the oil
came along the west side of Mississippi river came through what they call
(inaudible) came in there and just as it came through these little islands

Not there`s ever good time for an oil spill but it was a worst time because
the birds were nesting at that time. So you had the pelicans and shore
birds and a variety of other birds that were using those islands at that
time to nest and unfortunately the oil was coming in so thick that as it
cover the mangroves, it would kill the mangrove trees and yes, the
vegetation that we`re on those islands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the root system dies of any plants out here the
gulf, what happens is the lands start to fall apart, there`s nothing to
keep -- the root system ...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... keep those lands (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: And then the erosion takes place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The island that constant way back in erode in different
storms or just a natural wind and way back that`s could be (inaudible)
start to break them apart.

SCHULTZ: Can you believe what you`re looking at right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m shocked, I mean it`s just -- it`s really gut

SCHULTZ: This is all it`s left of Cat Island.


SCHULTZ: This is it.


SCHULTZ: Right off these islands when you get in the shallow water and
prop starts to roll the ground a little bit it kicks of this the ground and
this is what comes to the surface you can actually smell the oil, it`s
literarily amazing. You see our prop went through there with a two engines
kick up the surface and there`s your oil it comes right to the surface and
it stinks. Birds are still on this islands coming in here feeding, so you
can imagine the contamination that takes place within the wildlife.

As the island slowly disappears so might the migratory birds that have made
the island their breeding ground.

HAHN: We`ve lost the pelican which is our state bird back in 60s due the
DTT, Louisiana only got 6 bird islands left and they`re all disappearing.
U.S. wildlife and fisheries did studies on the birds and discovered that,
what happens is, when these birds are born on this islands they imprint to
those islands and they`ll come back every year, year after year to those
same islands.

DAVID MUTH, NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION: They`re going to move where they
have to move is just that, you know, we`re running out of places for them
to go to.

HAHN: If we don`t start rebuilding this islands and its small little
habitat fro them, we`re not going to we`re going to lose the pelican again
because of habitat.

SCHULTZ: There`s a massive effort now being put forth to restore this, to
bring it back to its nature position.

So your goal is to rebuild Cat Island?

HAHN: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Which is going to take how much?

HAHN: $6 million, we`ve been enable to raise $3 million and we`ve got a
great cooperation, our new parish president (inaudible) he`s decided to
step up the pace and help as well by using some of the funding that the
parish has. So we`ve got money that we cobble (ph) together from

I know we can bring it back we got to bring it back and the birds are
depending on these things it`s going to be a beautiful bird sanctuary once
it gets completed.

SCHULTZ: And they`re getting support from some unlikely sources.

HAHN: Shell Oil put up a million dollars to help rebuild this island,
they`re not all bad, you know, that not all bad...


HAHN: ... there`s actually, at one time belong to Apache Oil and Apache
Oil approached them to donate to the parish and they did.

SCHULTZ: What is BP done to restore?

HAHN: Nothing.

SCHULTZ: Nothing?


SCHULTZ: Not a dime for Cat Island?

HAHN: Not a dime. It`s a shame that we have to pay for something we had -
- that we had no responsibility of committing this.


SCHULTZ: We`ve reached out to BP and invited representatives to join us
here on the Ed Show, they declined our invitation. You can see their full
statement on our website at

That`s the Ed show, I`m Ed Schultz.

"PoliticsNation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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