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PoliticsNation, Monday, April 20th, 2015

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Date: April 20, 2015
Guest: Joan Walsh; Bernie Sanders, Dan Smolen, Alyona Minkovski, John
Fugelsang, Stephanie Miller

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you for
tuning in.

We start tonight with breaking news from Baltimore. About the death of 25-
year-old Freddie Gray from a spinal cord injury that his lawyer says
happened in police custody. City officials just wrapped up a press
conference, highlighting the central mystery of the case.


very tragic injury to his spinal cord which resulted in his death. What we
don`t know and what we need to get to is how that injury occurred. I know
that when Mr. Gray was placed inside that van, he was able to talk. He was
upset. And when Mr. Gray was taken out of that van, he could not talk and
he could not breathe.


SHARPTON: Police released this surveillance video today from the incident
itself. But it is witness` cell phone video that is really raising the
questions tonight.

Here is NBC`s Pete Williams on that.


PETE WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This cell phone video provided to
NBC News by the lawyer for 25-year-old Freddie Gray shows the arrest. The
lawyer says Gray suffered a broken neck last Sunday when police arrested
and restrained him. The police have be given a cause for Gray`s injuries
or specified why he was arrested saying there is an investigation into the

The lawyer for Gray`s family said he died Sunday from his injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we know is t that while in police custody for
committing no crime, for which they had no justification for making an
arrest exempt he was a black man running. His spine was virtually severed.

WILLIAMS: Official say Gray`s arrest came after ran from four officers on
bicycles. According to a police time line, at 8:42 a.m. April 12, officers
called for a police van and says Gray was conscious and talking when
officers put him into the police vehicle.

Another video apparently shot by a witness shows the van stopped at a
second location at 8:54. Gray appears to be taken out of the vehicle. Put
on the pavement and confined by more restraints. At 9:24, police say, they
called paramedics to the precinct to take Gray to the hospital.


SHARPTON: Freddie Gray spent a week in the hospital and he died yesterday.
City officials said an internal investigation is underway. There will also
be an independent review. Six officers have been suspended and an autopsy
on Mr. Gray was performed today.

Joining me now is MSNBC law enforcement analyst Jim Cavanaugh and criminal
defense attorney Eric Guster. Thank you both for being here this evening.


JIM CAVANAUGH, MSNBC ANALYST: Jim, what questions do you have about this
case right now?

CAVANAUGH: Well, Rev., you know, when you look at the video that you just
played, when the young man is picked up. He is in pain. He grimaces. His
face grimaces and you can see, he doesn`t seem to have the power to use his
legs. So it seems to me, and I don`t mean to question doctors here if I
was investigating this case. Does he have a spinal injury at this point?
Because, you know, when someone is lifted up like that, the shackle behind

And I`ve lifted up many arrested people. You know, there is a natural
tendency to stand unless you`re doing some sort of peaceful protest and you
purposefully don`t use your leg to stand. Most people when you lift them
up, they will use their legs to stand. He is grimacing in painful. His
legs seem to be not powered as he is dragged to the van. So was there some
injury at that point? You know, the doctors need to answer those questions
for the mayor and the commissioner.

SHARPTON: Eric, obviously I agree. Obviously he looked like he was in
painful. He look to be grimacing. And he certainly wasn`t doing a
peaceful protest. Not only does it raise a question about had there been a
spinal injury. Why would the police have call for medical back-up then?

GUSTER: Right. And that`s part of the problem. Because this young man,
Freddie Gray, didn`t appear that he did anything wrong. And just like Jim
just said. It looks like his legs were weak. But the question I have,
Reverend Al, the one thing that sticks out in this case is, there was a 30-
minute gap between 8:54 and 9:24 where are question is, what happened in
that 30 minutes? Because I`m sure within the city limits of Baltimore,
they can get him to the precinct by then. Why did they stop? Because they
stop to put more restraints on him?

But if he is in police custody in the back of the van, the question is why.
And we`ve had so many cases of police brutality across the nation that, I`m
so happy that people are starting to use their cell phones. We have two
sets of cell phone videos to show the timeline that the police officers may
not have wanted to be known.

SHARPTON: Now, we don`t know, Jim, what happened before the video was
shot. So clearly we don`t know if something happened to cause the injury
or whether there was some kind of confrontation. We don`t know anything
about before the video.

But let`s go to the time line of the events police released. At 8:39 a.m.,
officers approached Gray. Gray flees. 8:40, Gray was taken into custody.
8:42, officers request a transport wagon. 8:54, the wagon stops. More
restraints were added to Mr. Gray. 30 minutes later, 9:24, paramedics were
requested for hospital transport for Mr. Gray. So there are gaps in time
that are unexplained and unrecorded. What can the time line tell us, Jim?

CAVANAUGH: Well, here`s a big thing, Reverend Al. When someone is injured
during a police arrest, it is usually because they are actively resisting
arrest comes in two forms. Resisting arrest without violence and resisting
arrest with violence. Usually with violence is a felony. The police
report said there was no force. Mr. Gray didn`t resist with violence. He
was not charged with resisting violence. Where is the violence from the
person that shows that this injury is required or even this rough handling?
And once someone is shackled and their hands are cuffed, you know, there
are witnesses reporting that he was tossed on the floor of the paddy wagon.
Thrown on the floor of the wagon and feet tied behind him.

Now, sometime people in custody, you know, I`ve had them kick out the
windows of my radio car. They get very violent sometimes when they are in
the back of a police vehicle. That happens. But this person didn`t seem
to resist with violence or create violence. He seemed more he was
captured. He tried to run. He was captured and then he was in pain for
some reason and that seems like Eric said not have been taken seriously.
Not to have been regarded as really important and needed medical attention.
And whatever injury might have happened was exacerbated by him laying on
the floor of the police transport vehicle which then made a couple stops.
Maybe even picked up another prisoner.

So there`s a lot to be found out here for mayor and commissioner to find
out what happened to this young man, 27 years old. He should be alive.

SHARPTON: Eric, police officials today noted that Freddie Gray requested
medical attention more than once, including asking for his inhaler. How
would that play into the investigation?

GUSTER: Well, that would it play in because on the civil side of the
investigation because if this man asked for medical help, then he possibly
knew that he absolute that was in trouble. And as we`ve been talking about
this, Reverend Al, 8:54, the police officers said they added restraints
which means to me that if they added restraints, his legs must have been
moving just fine. His article must be moving just fine. Because the only
reason that a police officer would add more restraints is if someone is
resisting or fighting someone else or something of that nature. So if is
so many gaps in between these time lines, the big 30-minute gaps that there
is so much information that is missing. But one thing is sure. He was
walking before the police officers had him in custody and he can`t and he
is dead now. So the police have a lot of questions to be answered.

SHARPTON: The police commissioner went through what officials would be for
with the autopsy. Take a listen.


kicking, punching, strikes of any type upon his body? Was there any
evidence of the voice box being crushed or any damage done to the neck
area? Was there any internal trawl to the organs at all? Was there any
vertebra broken in a manner that would cause the severe issues we are
dealing with today.


SHARPTON: Jim, what can the autopsy tell us? What should we be looking

CAVANAUGH: Well, you want to know from the medical examiner, you know,
where is this spinal injury? At the back of the neck? In other words, was
his neck broken? You know, is it a scenario where an officer could have
his knee on his head or his neck and other officer tried to turn him over,
not purposely trying to cause an injury that severe but, you know, just
happened through rough handling. Is that possible?

I still say, he didn`t walk to that van under his own power. So there is
some injury there affecting his legs. And one of the citizens who took
some of the cell phone video is screaming at the officers. His legs are
broke. He can`t move his legs. That when you see his legs, they look
distorted. They look out of place.

So he has some injury that might have been exacerbated. And you know, he
could have been screaming and writhing in pain in the back of the wagon.
And you know, maybe they didn`t read that right and thought he was, you
know, fighting his restraints, when actually he might have been in pain.

So there are so many questions and so many things the mayor and
commissioner and the commanders have to get to the bottom of. The medical
examiner, if you`re investigating this case, I would move in his house. I
want to know everything that`s going because I want to know what this
injury tell me so I can get to the bottom of it.

SHARPTON: Well, we are going to be finding out those answers. We are
going to be following this story and see where the investigation goes.

Jim Cavanaugh, Eric Guster, thank you for your time this evening.

Straight ahead, it`s been 163 days, 163 days since Loretta Lynch was
nominated to be attorney general. Why are we still waiting for a vote?
Senator Bernie Sanders is here.

Plus we`re learning more about the Tulsa deputy charged after fatally
shooting a man. What his training records and the gun he used revealed.

And could Mitt Romney be making a comeback? It is making headlines today.
Conversation nation is ahead.


SHARPTON: Breaking news on our major search and rescue operation for
survivors aboard a migrant ship. Hundreds are feared dead after a ship
carrying as many as 950 passengers overturned off Libya`s coast last night.
Italian ships set out to locate the passengers aboard the tiny fishing
vessel. Only 28 survivors have been found. It is believed as many as 300
people were locked below deck. This tragedy has forced European leaders to
consider the humanitarian efforts toward the immigration issue. The
Mediterranean Sea has long been a channel for those fleeing war and poverty
in Africa and the Middle East. This latest tragedy shedding much needed
light on a pressing global issue.


SHARPTON: After 163 days, Senate Republicans finally expected to vote this
week on Loretta Lynch`s attorney general nomination. But before they do,
we`re hearing more of the same excuses for the delay. Here`s Senator Mike


SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: There are a lot of concerns with Loretta Lynch
that focus a lot on what President Obama did with our immigration code back
in November. He basically --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loretta Lynch didn`t do this.

LEE: No, she didn`t. But when questioned in front of the Senate Judiciary
Committee on which I sit, she refused to acknowledge that there are limits
to prosecutorial discretion.


SHARPTON: They are blocking Loretta Lynch nomination over immigration,
even though the senator admitted she had nothing to do with changing the
rules. It`s a despicable game of politics and it has gone on way too long.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think six months is reasonable? I mean, do you
think this has been a little ridiculous?

LEE: I`m not going to say that it is ridiculous.


SHARPTON: He won`t say it is ridiculous but I will. It is ridiculous.
And as President Obama said, it is embarrassing too.


dysfunction in the Senate just goes too far. This is an example of it.
It`s gone too far. Enough. Enough. Call Loretta Lynch for a vote. Let
her do her job. This is embarrassing. A process like this.


SHARPTON: Maybe they`re finally getting embarrassed because now Senate
Republicans say we`ll have a vote early this week.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we have a couple things happening on the floor.
And I think this that will be resolved in the early part of this week. My
sense is over the next 72 to 48 hours that is going to be resolved.


SHARPTON: It will be resolved but this has become a pattern. Republicans
playing politics instead of governing. They`ve held up voting on our next
attorney general, they have threatened funding for our homeland security
and even shut down our government. All for no good reason and wasting

It`s been 163 days since President Obama nominated Miss Lynch and in the
same time since the Senate has held her hostage, they`ve managed to confirm
several judges and even a new secretary of defense. She is supremely
qualified ask already been confirmed to the Senate twice. I hope Lynch`s
vote is held this week but Republicans should be embarrassed. They should
be embarrassed that it has taken more than 163 days for them to do their

Joining me now is Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent of Vermont. Thank
you for being here.


SHARPTON: One of your Republican colleagues say he expects this vote early
this week. When do you think you`ll finally get a chance to vote on
Loretta Lynch?

SANDERS: Well, I hope we will have the vote this week as you`ve indicated.
This is the longest time that I believe that any attorney general nominee
has had to wait. And it is, the president is right, it is embarrassing.
It is a disgrace and it really gets back to the level of Republican
obstructionism for anything that President Obama wants. Same old story.
If he wants it, it is bad.

The idea to attack her or to hold her up because she actually believes in
the policy that`s the guy who nominated her has presented is a little bit
crazy. That`s what she is supposed to do. I`ve not heard one Republican,
Al, say that she is not qualified for the job.

SHARPTON: Now Senator, these delays having a real effect on the justice
department because the "L.A. Times" says the department is in, quote,
"partial limbo," and quote, "promotions and policy decisions at the justice
department have been put off. Announcements have slowed to a trickle.
Congress is waiting for input on the agency`s budget policies."

Attorney general Eric Holder is still doing a great job but isn`t the
department forced to put up long term planning because of this, Senator?

SANDERS: Absolutely. Eric Holder is trying to get out of there. He has
announced that he wants to leave. She has announced that she wants the
job. She is raring to go. And obviously, it is very hard for a large
department like the department of justice to do its work when they don`t
have the leader- who is supposed to be leading them.

SHARPTON: Now, what is the buzz around the Senate? You`re there. Are you
expecting a vote this week? I mean, I know you hope there will be one.
Are you having any indication that there will be a vote this week?

SANDERS: I`m hearing mixed signals, Al, but I hope very much that there
will be. I think it will be a close vote. I mean, despite Jeb Bush, for
example, coming out and saying that it is important that she become, get
the vote, it is going to be very close. I think we have the votes to put
her in, but it is going to be close.

SHARPTON: With all that this country is facing from terrorism all the way
to the need to deal with voting laws and police reform, how at this vital
time can anyone elected to the Senate play partisan politics with something
as sensitive as the head of the justice department?

SANDERS: Well, Al, you know, you`re absolutely right, but it goes further.
Look, we have so many serious problems facing our country with a middle
class in decline with huge income and wealth inequality, with high
unemployment, 11 percent. You know, with climate change, for goodness
sakes, which the scientists tell us is the major environmental crisis
facing the planet.

Republicans have nothing to say. They`re not allowing serious legislation
or serious debate on any of these issues. Their agenda is minimal. And
they can`t even allow us to vote for an attorney general for the United
States of America.

SHARPTON: And "Politico" has a story today, Senator, that is not just
Loretta Lynch`s nomination being held up, as important as that is. Quote,
"there are 18 nominations waiting for a vote on the Senate floor, including
Loretta Lynch`s nomination to the attorney general. And more than 130
idling in committees."

And they say senator McCain said, quote, "it`s payback for the Democrats
using the so-called nuclear option to push through scores of nominations in
the previous Congress." So they`re punishing the American people because
Democrats approved a lot of nominees, Senator?

SANDERS: It is really quite crazy. The reason that Reid finally, and many
of us pushed them hard on this, reduced the number of votes we needed from
60 to 50 for nominations, is because the Republicans obstructed time and
time again on judges and presidential nominees. And finally, Reid said
enough is enough. So now what McCain and others are saying is because Reid
stood up to their obstructionism, now they are going to obstruct even more.
That is quite a weird line of thought.

SHARPTON: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time tonight.

SANDERS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Now let me bring in Joan Walsh of . Thank you for
being here tonight, Joan.

JOAN WALSH, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, SALON.COM: Thanks, Rev., you for having me.

SHARPTON: What message does it send to the American people that it has
taken 163 days to vote on Loretta Lynch?

WALSH: Well, it is the justice department. Maybe they just don`t care
about justice. That`s kind of what I get to, Reverend Al, you know. I
mean, Senator Sanders is right. This is an unprecedented level of
obstruction. And I really lay it at the feet of Mitch McConnell who
started off saying we are going to run things differently. We are going to
have up and down votes.

The truth is it really does look like Loretta Lynch has the votes to
confirm her. She has at least five Republican supporters. The question
is, will Mitch McConnell bring it to a vote.


SHARPTON: I`m glad you brought that up, Joan. Because when Mitch
McConnell became majority leader, he made a huge big deal. A huge deal
about how well the Senate would function. Listen to this.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: I heard a lot of discussion
about dysfunction in Washington. I think there are a lot of people who
believe that just because you have divided government, that doesn`t mean
you don`t accomplish anything. The Senate in the last few years basically
doesn`t do anything. We don`t even vote. We`re going back to work and
actually, pass legislation.


SHARPTON: He made this big deal about progress and votes and passing
legislation. If he can`t hold a vote on the attorney general, I mean, what
does he do?

WALSH: And he can hold a vote. He can hold a vote. He has the power to
hold a vote. He just won`t hold the vote. But I think, really, OK, that
is incredibly disingenuous. The prize for disingenuous goes to Senator
Chuck Grassley. Because he is now blaming Harry Reid for not bringing this
up back when the Democrats had the majority in December.

Now, you and I talked about this at the time, Rev. Both of us had some
questions about that. In fact, the reason senator Reid and the White House
didn`t push it, is because they wanted to start fresh with the Republican
majority. They wanted -- it was an olive branch. It was a show of good
faith. We are not going to force this too.

SHARPTON: And it was said at the time.

WALSH: It was said openly at the time, this wasn`t a big secret. Now
Senator Grassley is blaming senator Reid for doing what they perceive is
the right thing to work with the Republicans and how the process work. It
is just mind blowing what this woman has been through.

SHARPTON: There are also, and I wrote this in my piece today, there are
also some level of dog whistling here. Because they did confirm the
secretary of defense and others, but the fact that it is a woman and an
African-American also plays to some empties on the far right to want to
send messages to overly qualified women and blacks. I mean, it just seems
to be somewhat singled out here that we`ll make an example out of lynch.

WALSH: I agree. And at best, it is insensitive to the message it is
showing. At worst it is really sending that message. And you know,
Senator Dick Durbin who happens to be white, compared her to Rosa Parks.
Senator McCain got really angry about that.

But if they thought about resemblance, you know, these things, that the
people who cared about it really thought about it and work through it, they
wouldn`t do stuff like this.

SHARPTON: Well, the signal is their intension on the matter and they
didn`t get angry enough to call the vote.

SHARPTON: Joan Walsh, thank you for your time tonight.

WALSH: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, dramatic video of a rookie police officer who
refused to shoot a man apparently trying to commit suicide by cop.
Tonight, he is being praised as a hero.

Also, we`re learning more about the deputy who fatally shot a man. More on
his training record and the gun he used.


SHARPTON: Developing news in the shooting that lead to the arrest of an
Oklahoma reserve deputy. Roberts Bates said he accidentally used his gun
instead of his taser when he shot Eric Harris earlier this month. Harris
died later at the hospital. And now the Tulsa county sheriff says he
reassigned two other deputies, who were at the scene because they received
threats. One pinned Harris` head to the ground with his knee. The others
swore at Harris when he said he was losing his breath.


SHERIFF STANLEY GLANZ, TULSA, OKLAHOMA: They`ve been re-assigned. But
they haven`t been suspended but we will take action on that once some of
the court cases are resolved with Mr. Bates. I`m not sure if we`ll go
ahead and do an internal review or not.


SHARPTON: Also tonight, new questions about whether Bates had the proper
training for the job. The "Tulsa World" newspaper reports, quote,
"Training records do not show that Tulsa county Reserve Deputy Robert Bates
qualified on a revolver he carried during a fatal shooting." And his gun
was not on the list of firearms deputies can carry on duty. Today the
sheriff said the use of that gun was a simple mistake. Offering this


GLANZ: Bob did mistake a gun for a taser. He mistook having a gun in his
hand and thought it was a taser. He did a transition from a gun to a


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Dan Smolen, the family attorney, the Harris
family attorney. Thank you for being here, first of all.

DAN SMOLEN, HARRIS FAMILY ATTORNEY: Thank you, Reverend. I appreciate the

SHARPTON: Let me ask you, what was your reaction to the sheriff`s comments

SMOLEN: Well, it`s not surprising to me. Because I`ve worked really
against this organization almost for a decade now. And it is very
consistent with some of the systemic issues that I`ve seen coming out of
the Tulsa County Sheriff`s Office.

SHARPTON: Well, it seems like they`ve gone from saying where Mr. Bates
himself said he reach for the wrong object to now the sheriff saying he had
the gun in his hand.

SMOLEN: I`m cutting out. I can`t hear. I can`t hear you.

SHARPTON: All right. I think we`re having a little technical difficulty
on the -- let`s try to get that straight. But what I`m raising is as I
just played the contradiction between the what the sheriff is saying today
and what Mr. Bates originally says is a very glaring difference in stories.
Because as I showed you, when Matt Lauer interviewed Mr. Bates, he
demonstrated that the taser was in one place and the gun, another. Now,
the sheriff is saying, the gun was actually in his hand. Which is a total
different story. Let me go to -- the sheriff spoke to the Harris family
from the podium today. Listen to this.


GLANZ: I want to speak directly to the Harris family. We are sorry Eric
was taken from you. For this I`m sorry that we were all involved and my
sympathy goes out to that family.


SHARPTON: We`re having technical difficulties to get the response from the
attorney so let`s take a break.


SHARPTON: We apologize for the technical difficulties in talking with the
family`s attorney for Eric Harris and we thank Mr. Smolen for coming in.
And we will certainly stay on top of that story and continue to give you
updates as it unravels in coming days. With so many stories about policing
in the news, it is important to note that the vast majority of officers are
committed to doing the right thing. To doing their jobs the right way.
And the latest example of that comes from Ohio. Watch this body cam video
from a rookie police officer who has been praised as a hero for how he
handled a murder suspect apparently trying to commit suicide by cop.



UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Get your hand out of your pocket now!


UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: No, man, I`m not going to do it!

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Shoot me! Shoot me! Shoot me!

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE) Back it up now! Back up! (bleep) Back
the (bleep) up! Get down on the ground!


SHARPTON: That suspect is now behind bars, facing the criminal justice
system. Officer Jesse Kidder later explained what he was thinking as he
handled this dangerous situation.


OFFICER JESSE KIDDER, NEW RICHMOND, OHIO: The law enforcement officers all
across the nation with split seconds decisions. I want to be absolutely
sure before I used deadly forceful.


SHARPTON: Officer Kidder is a former marine with a Purple Heart from his
two tours in Iraq. He deserves a lot of credit for how he handled this
life and death issue here at home. Great work, Officer Kidder. And I feel
that those of us that question police cases, that question bad policing are
obligated to show the Officer Kidders of the world that do the right thing.
The objective must be good policing and standing with the police. Not just
nitpicking and creating an atmosphere that would not lead to a constructive
society that is accountable to all. I have no problem. I am happy to
salute Officer Kidder just like I feel obligated if there is something to
be questioned to raise those questions.


SHARPTON: Time now for "Conversation Nation." Joining me tonight,
HuffPost Live host Alyona Minkovski, political comedian and radio host John
Fugelsang, and radio host Stephanie Miller, thank you all for being here.



SHARPTON: Hillary Clinton was in New Hampshire today. And in a quick
press conference, she bashed the GOP for attacking her instead of talking
about the issues.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`re back into the political
season. And therefore, we will be subjected to all kinds of distraction
and attacks and I am ready for that. I know that that comes unfortunately
with the territory. It is, I think, worth noting that the republicans seem
to be talking only about me. I don`t know what they would talk about if I
weren`t in the race.

SHARPTON: Stephanie, Hillary slamming the GOP contenders. Are we going to
see more of this soon?

MILLER: I mean, I think she`s right. What happens if she`s not in the
race? I just picture them all being like Albert Brooks in network news
just like staring into the camera and then starting to sweat profusely.
Because they literally have no ideas Rev except Hillary bad. It has been
Obama bad for how many years and it`s just Hillary bad. What is the new
idea there?


JOHN FUGELSANG, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, I think Stephanie Miller is
absolutely right as she tends to be. But I will say that there is no
legislative agenda. And that`s why they`re going to have to make this
about personality and pant suits and Chipotle. And you have to remember,
if the news here are watching every talks about what Hillary Clinton is
eating or wearing, you are not actually watching news.

SHARPTON: You are Alyona trying to convince people to trust with you being
the leader of the free world. And you would think that all of them in New
Hampshire this weekend, that they would do more than just try to get best
sound bite against Hillary Clinton.

MINKOVSKI: You would think so. But can we say we`re really surprised?
This is how campaigns work and unfortunately this is the position that
Hillary Clinton is going to be in as the lead democratic contender at this
point. I think there are too many republicans that are thinking about
throwing their hat into the ring. Too many options and varieties there.
And so, they just have to zero in. And the one planning attack they have
is going after Hillary Clinton. Because it is the easiest thing to do.

SHARPTON: But Stephanie, you would think that one or two would try to
break from the pack and try to say I`m not going to just do this. Here are
my policies, here are my ideas. Especially since it is not even working.
Look at this new poll where Hillary Clinton is double digits against every
one of them. Up by 14. By 17 against Jeb Bush. About 14 against Rubio.
On and on and on. It is not even working.

MILLER: Well, yes. I mean, I think, what I like as a woman, Rev is keep
playing this age card and this sexist card. We`re going to have like 100
percent turnout of everyone in the country with a vagina. I`m telling you
what, this is not working for them. You know, Marco Rubio and others are
saying, oh, it`s the leader from yesterday with yesterday`s ideas. And
that`s not true. His ideas are from yesterday. And if hers are, please
take a spec to a third Clinton term, please.

SHARPTON: You know, John, a good friend of mine said similar to that, what
Stephanie said today. Rubio talks about being the younger guy. But he is
talking the old ideas. I mean, he doesn`t support same sex marriage. I
mean, the fact that you`re a young guy with old ideas. I would rather have
an older guy or lady with young ideas. At least 21st Century ideas.

FUGELSANG: You got Bernie Sanders, he`s in his 70s, and he has got a bunch
of ideas that haven`t been tried yet. At least not since Eisenhower when
they worked for our economy. But you`re exactly right. You know, they
want to go off on Hillary Clinton`s age which will backfire from the party
that gave us Bob look ma, I`m twerking Dole. John McCain and Ronald
Reagan. Still our oldest president ever. Ageism doesn`t work. In this
case you have Hillary Clinton running against 85-year-old Herbert Hoover
economics. So, she`s always going to be younger than anything else. And
keep in mind, every single one of these guys running in for the GOP field
is running on doing exactly what George W. Bush did but calling it
something different.

SHARPTON: Alyona, brace yourself. Because they said there may be more in
the race. Where is someone else getting in? Maybe you didn`t see this one
coming. The "Washington Post" road house New Hampshire could make or break
Jeb Bush`s potential presidential campaign. And it brought up this idea.
Floated by democratic strategist James Carville.


It is a must win. It is a must win. Because he will lose Iowa. I`ll go
further and say if Jeb Bush loses New Hampshire, they`ll get Mitt Romney
back in the race.

SHARPTON: The Romney may return story is getting headlines but he is long
denied a third repeat or three-peat.


planning on running.

I`m not running. I`m not planning on running.

I`m not running for president.

I`m not doing it again.

I`m not running for president. I`ve said that so many times.


SHARPTON: Alyona, can you see any chance Romney gets in?

MINKOVSKI: No. I think if the world is done with Mitt Romney running for
president and that became --

SHARPTON: But is Romney done with it?

MINKOVSKI: Well, I think that he should have gotten the message the first
two times that running for president didn`t work out for him. You know,
"The New York Times" has reported earlier this afternoon too that the Koch
Brothers seemed to have picked their new favorite and that`s Governor Scott
Walker. Ad that`s who they want to throw their support behind and throw
their money behind. And I think that, you know, that just shows you that
people are ready for some fresh blood.

SHARPTON: But John, we`d better make sure that it is really the Koch
Brothers on the phone will walk at this time.

FUGELSANG: Yes. Well, look, I`m a comedian. I`m the guy praying Mitt
Romney gets back in the race. I want him on that wall, Rev. I need him on
that wall. I have a box full of old Mitt Romney jokes in my closet that
are rustling that want to come out and breathe again.

SHARPTON: You have buying this fall of jokes --

FUGELSANG: None about his wife. I love Ann Romney. Great stay at five
home`s mom. But yes, I`d love to get Mitt Romney back in the race.

SHARPTON: Stephanie?

MILLER: Yes. There is a new idea. I mean, this is party of fresh ideas.
How about Romney? A Bush? No? How about zombie Reagan? Seriously.
There is a party out of ideas, Rev.

SHARPTON: All right. Now to the gyrocopter pilot breaking his silence.
We all saw Doug Hughes land on the lawn of the U.S. Capitol last week, he
was protesting money in politics. Now he is speaking out saying he
expected to be stopped along the way. And this.


DOUG HUGHES, GYROCOPTER PILOT: At the time that I was flying at the
capitol mall and it was a huge thrill. I wasn`t worried about getting shot
down. I was worried about getting shut down, I was worried about my flying
and I was getting focused on making my landing. And I think that`s the
same thing every pilot does when they`re making a final approach.


SHARPTON: Many people are standing up for Hughes. Praising him for
bringing attention to money in politics, including Bill Maher.


BILL MAHER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Nobody talked about why he did it.
Which was to bring attention to a very important issue. Maybe the most
important issue. Is that elections are bought and sold now by
billionaires. This guy is a hero to me. I`m not going to make fun of him.


SHARPTON: John, I agree with the pilot on the issue. And I`m a Bill Maher
fun. But is he a hero?

FUGELSANG: He`s a hero to me. And I mean, he can pay the fine. He broke
the law, he is a big boy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, at some
point the bad guys aren`t even the republicans anymore, Rev. Hate is going
to hate. And the Democrats are neck deep in money as they are in some
cases. But in this case, you know, the bad guy is the media I think.
Because this guy goes and flies a gyrocopter on to the capitol lawn to
protest that our Congress is bought is paid for. And the media finds that
a bigger story than the fact that we have a Congress that is bought and
paid for. So this guy is doing the media`s job. And as a political
comedian, I kind of resent that. Because it is our job to do the media`s
job for them.

SHARPTON: Alyona, is he a hero?

MINKOVSKI: Yes. I think this is an incredibly important issue. I think
that he should be landing gyrocopters at a bunch of campaign events too.
Maybe the next one that Hillary Clinton holds. Or the next one that some
republican contender for the presidency holds. Because the grip that money
has on our political system right now is absolutely insane. And John
brings up a great point. The media is always too quick to call something a
political stunt without really diving into why it is that someone pulled

SHARPTON: Stephanie, you have the last word. Hero or not.

MILLER: Well, you know, I think so. And it is not a whacky idea, what you
guys are saying is true. The vast majority of American people agree with
him. That being said, I am a little concerned about security. It is a bad
day for the Secret Service when someone goes, oh, they weren`t driving
drunk with some hackers, it was just the guy with the gyrocopter. It`s not
a good day.

SHARPTON: All right. Alyona, John and Stephanie, thank you for your time

MINKOVSKI: Thank you.

MILLER: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: So, it is Patriots Day in Boston. The great tradition of the
Boston marathon. Thousands ran. And thousands came out to cheer on their
heroes. One of the runners? Our very own POLITICS NATION producer Miriam
Lablans (ph). Lablans finished in three hours and 25 minutes.
Congratulations, Miriam. And coming up, the city shows the world again,
what it means to be Boston strong.


SHARPTON: It`s the classic younger sibling problem. Who would ever want
to be overshadowed by their big brother? Definitely not Jeb Bush.
Especially when it comes to foreign policy. This likely 2016 candidate is
doing everything he can to make people forget. He is more than a little
related to our 43rd president. And our 41st president. First, he is like,
I won`t talk about the past. Then he is all, I am my own man. But for
some reason, that`s not quite cutting it with reporters up in New


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Are this any other problems you have with your
brother`s foreign policy? Any place he made mistakes?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m not going to get into that.
Look, that`s not particularly relevant in a world of deep insecurity,
focusing on the past is just not really relevant.


SHARPTON: You know what? Maybe Jeb Bush has a point. After all, he is
not the one who got us into a disastrous decade long war in Iraq on false
pretenses. There`s just one tiny thing he left out. Nineteen of the 21
people advising Jeb on foreign policy worked for his father, his brother or
both. He is making the past relevant by taking advice from people from the
past. Did Jeb Bush think we wouldn`t notice that he is avoiding the
irrelevant in the room? Nice try but this is very relevant. Because we
got you.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight work the years later and still Boston strong.
Today a field of 30,000 from all over the world came together to run the
Boston marathon. It`s the city`s greatest tradition. Patriots Day in
Massachusetts. This was the second marathon since the bomb went off at the
finish line in 2013. And since then, the city has shown the country and
the world how to be resilient.


MARTY WALSH, MAYOR OF BOSTON: The marathon is certainly a symbol of hope
and joy and now more than ever, strength and resilience. It`s a symbol of
how great our city is and everything that we love about our city. This
year`s banner reflects the pride that we feel. There is only one Boston.


SHARPTON: That strength and that resilience is epitomized by Rebecca
Gregory who is near the finish line when the bomb went off. She lost her
leg and nearly her life. And today, she was at the finish line again.
Only this time she crossed it as a runner. In four hours and 18 minutes.
That is Boston strong.


think I`ve ever had to do. When I got started in the race, the PTSD came
back from just the marathon in general. And so it was my nerves. And it
was also just physically the rain and everything preventing me from doing
this. But I crossed the finish line. I took my life back today.


SHARPTON: And it is worth noting just two weeks ago, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was
found guilty of the bombing. He could face the death penalty. But the
people of Boston are showing grace and dignity. A couple who lost limbs in
bombings opposes the death penalty. Saying a life sentence is the best
route to healing. And then the parents of the youngest victim, 8-year-old
Martin Richard. They`re asking the government not to pursue the death
penalty. Two years later showing the world what Boston strong is really
all about. That day that the world saw humanity at its worst, victims that
should have never been victimized can now see resilience at its best.
Crises come in life. It is how we respond that shows who we are. Boston
has taught world a lesson. Again today.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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