Skip navigation

The Ed Show for Wednesday, April 29th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

  Most Popular
Most viewed

Date: April 29, 2015
Guest: Catherine Pugh, Dayvon Love, Caroline Heldman


ED SCHULTZ, THE ED SHOW HOST: Tonight, the latest from Baltimore.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN, (R) MARYLAND: We`re trying to return the normal seen in
Baltimore City.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the first in U.S. sport history, the teams
will play to a close empty stadium, no fans allowed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the difference between the plays back them,
(inaudible) does not work.

SCHULTZ: Later, it`s almost official.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I) VERMONT: I am thinking about for running

It`s not because I wake up in the morning and said, "Boy, I really have
this burning desire to be president of the United States".

SCHULTZ: Plus, divided court.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basic issues of equality and family are before the
United States reenforce.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have changed the idea of that marriage.

difficult for the court to say, "Oh well, we know better.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.
We start this evening with the latest out of Baltimore.

Peace and calm is being restored in the city following Monday night`s
riots. Schools have reopened and the residents are continuing to clean up.

Moments ago, Baltimore police provided an update.


there will be a group of protesters later this evening around 5:30 P.M. to
6:00 at Penn Station which is our train station, just north of where we are
now. We anticipate that will be a large group that will march, from what
we understand right now, they will march through the city to city hall. We
are asking that they remain peaceful.


SCHULTZ: We`ll be monitoring the situation closely is that, protest
expected to include a lot of college students. A number of protest held
today in Baltimore were peaceful. Police said, no new arrests were made
today, demonstrators are still demanding answers in the death of Freddie

Last night, there were a few small confrontations between police and
protesters, 35 people were arrested on Tuesday night. A lot of different
from Monday night were 235 arrests were made over 3,000 National Guard
troops are on the streets enforcing the 10:00 P.M. to 5:00 A.M. curfew.
The curfew will start again tonight at 10:00 P.M.

Earlier today, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan gave an update on the


LOGAN: Businesses were open, the state government is open. We want to get
people out there today and then be going about their business. We think --
there`s no question on my mind, the city is now safe. There`s an
overwhelming presence so we got people protecting you all over the city.
There`s no shouldn`t be any concern but tonight we`re going to still be out
there to make sure we enforce the curfew and make sure we don`t have
anymore unrest.


SCHULTZ: And the game must go on for. So many ways, the Baltimore Orioles
play at home today against the Chicago White Sox. The game was close to
the public but it was televise. The 46,000 seat Camden Yards Stadium was
completely empty. It was the first Major League Baseball game played
without a crowd in over 100 years.

The Orioles management made the move and an effort to keep fans safe.

Get your cellphones out, we want to know what you think tonight on this
issue. The question is, "Is Baltimore starting to return to normal?" Go
to, you can cast your vote. We`ll bringing you the
results late on the show.

I`m joined tonight by Thomas Roberts, MSNBC anchor who anchored the last
night, I appreciate that, Trymaine Lee, MSNBC National Reporter and Joy
Reid MSNBC National Correspondent. Great to have all of you with us
tonight, Yeoman`s work no question about it.

Thomas, you first. This upcoming protest that is going to happen in this
hour is expected to be large and sounded at the press conference that the
police were a little bit concern. They`re trying to get out in front of
it, now there`s calm in the city, do you anticipate that that calm is going
to continue? Your thoughts.

THOMAS ROBERTS, MSNBC ANCHOR: I think that the protesters that we saw,
college (student) anyway, especially if the Baltimore Police Department is
communicating that they believe it`s a lot of college kids. The ones we
saw here yesterday at this intersection of Pennsylvania and North were
peaceful and they wanted to be part of a justice process to have their
voices heard, because they are not wanting to be a part of the riot or the
looting, and the distractions. They want to be a part of the justice that
is seeking answers into the death of Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old who was
taken the custody on April 12th by the police and then died a week later.
And I do think that this should be an interesting progression of a protest,

Just to give you a lay out for Baltimore, for those people that are
familiar with where Penn Station is, that`s going to be on Charles Street
which is just north of the city and in the Inner Harbor. But it is a
direct artery that those protest marchers did walk street down into the
city and get the city hall and the police station pretty easily. It`s also
right by I-83. I-83 is the main artery of the highway that`s going to take
you in and out of the city and out to Baltimore County. There`s a main
entrance right by Penn Station that can get you on the highway.

So it maybe a little bit of traffic at 5:00 P.M. rush hour, if they decide
to start walking down Charles Street which is, again, this main artery that
force (ph) people out of the city and to get on I-83 which would take those
people to work in the city after the county. But it`ll remains to be seen
exactly which direction they want to go if they`re using Penn Station as
their landmark for arrival where they depart from to get to city hall, to
be anybody`s guest.

SCHULTZ: OK. Joy Reid, what`s the conversation on the street? It seems
that all of this is taking on a life of its own almost beyond Freddie Gray.
But I understand that there`s a lot of people on the street that are
talking about, "Hey, this is about justice about something that happened to
Freddie Gray and what his family has had to go through".

JOY REID, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Ed. And we talked to a lot of young
black men this afternoon, we just walk around this area near with the
(inaudible) Penn-North intersection which are is like a five-way street
stop here not too far from where Thomas is. And I think it`s pretty
unanimous that people felt that Freddie Gray was just one in many, many,
many injustices that people there inflicted on African-Americans by the
local police department, at the least (inaudible) to the people we talked

All the time, people had either personal story of having dealt with the
police in a negative or story that people that knew or loved. And there`s
also a sense I think of the bigger picture being the failure to address
some of the economic injustices, the economic problems that really play
this part of Baltimore, where in West Baltimore right now, but there`s also
the far east side of Baltimore.

If you walk not far from here, not far from where they are, you know, a
subway sandwich shop, when you go a little bit farther down, there`s a lot
of blight (ph), there are a lot of abandoned buildings there are lot
building with windows missing or boarder up windows. There`s a lot of
poverty and very visible poverty in this city and I think that those are
some of the things that people really wanted to see addressed, they want to
see them addressed very soon.

And another thing really quickly if can say, Ed. People were really
anticipating getting more information specifically about what happened to
Freddie Gray. And I know that there`s now some question and confirmation
about the fact the police are not going to relieve that information. I did
just get off the phone before we came on the air with our Reverend Ron
Owens. He`s one of the local pastors here who met with the about 15
different clergy who met with the Mayor, with Stephanie Rawlings-Blake,
this afternoon at New Shiloh Baptist Church, who was essentially saying
that the Mayor brief them on the process and say, there really never was
supposed to be a released to the public, that is a released to the state
attorney, that she walk them through that process and gained there support,
and they`re essentially trying to play down Friday at an important data. I
think, you`re going to start to see some of those pastors and a few
business leaders going out and try to sell that idea to the community.

I can tell you base on the people we talk to today, that is going to be a
very tough sell, Ed.

SCHULTZ: OK. That is great information. Now, there`s been quite a
conversation that it is broken out over the word "thug". And earlier
today, within the last hour, Mayor Blake talked about that here it is.


generations building up this city for to be destroyed, by thugs.


SCHULTZ: What about that, Trymaine? Is this the backdrop conversation of
a lot of protester that are going on and do you hear a lot of conversation
on the street about that?

TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, that`s part of the
broader discussion the idea that people that are described as thugs for
breaking property but they will precipitated by a police officer or
officers seeing in, perhaps, being involve in death of a black man. A
black man died while in custody of the police.

And so the idea of the characterizations of this young people as thugs
involved in this oppressing or to say their basis is just more way on top
of their shoulders. Now, I spoke with the young woman yesterday who is
fiery, and angry, and use language that won`t be safe for televisions. And
what she said is, we`re here neglected, we`re here forgotten, and nobody
cares about us until something bad happens and then you want to come down
here with your cameras. And that the politicians have abandoned them and
the education is abandoned them.

She talk in this terms and said with top of all that with thugs, you know,
is the people rob, and steal, and come here in our community sell so we
can`t afford anything else.

This is that feeling. You mention in your intro the idea that East
Baltimore coming back to some sense of normalcy and then set back this for
many people what is normal is terrible. Almost have 50 percent of the
people in the city of don`t have a job far a few -- so many people have
barely in high school. This are the conditions when you drive around and
you see this, the blight (ph) and the abandoned buildings.

People are growing up in this communities, feeling so detached from any
sense that there`s a latter to anything else. And then, here we are with
the up rising after the Freddie Gray incident. Here we have pins from what
we can assume would be the smoke or pepper bombs used in this community.
And so people are still upset from so many (inaudible), the institutional
issues, the fact that there seem to be state section violence against
African-American men in particular with no accountability. And then on top
of that again, this characterization that these people are just running a
mock (ph) and thugs, though clearly some folks who are engage in some
criminal activities still, it`s stinks nonetheless.

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, we`ve heard a lot of conversation about changing
the culture of the police department and their tactics, changing certain
things and making new provisions when it comes to law enforcement in this
country. But the fact is, as I see it, these kids were out on the street
the first night doing what they were doing because in their world they got
nothing better do to. I mean they are so down on their look, in their
future, they`re furious about what is on unfolded obviously with the police
brutality that`s taking place over time. But this is about a job isn`t it?

Thomas Roberts, I mean, isn`t that the core of the conversation is to
occupy the folks that live in this city of Baltimore with some hope and
some income, and I know that there`s a lot of politicians that are talking
about, well, it`s the destruction of the family. Well, the number one
cause of divorce in this country and families breaking up is financial
instability what about that, Thomas? I mean this is really what it is at
the core of the issue, isn`t it?

ROBERTS: I think its part of the issue. There are separate categories
that we need to look at what has made this situation a powder cake (ph).
Obviously, the Freddie Gray situation, the tragedy of his death and the
facts around it have brought it all of our eyes to the city of Baltimore
that is brought us to investigate deeper issues in a city that has systemic
problems and has for decades.

I grew up just outside of the city. My dad lives in the city, I grew up in
the county. But there has been an issue with problems of poverty and
empowers communities and unreserved communities in Baltimore City for a

I did see hope yesterday in Sandtown. I went to Freddie Gray`s
neighborhood and I saw people not armed with bricks, not armed with anger
but armed with brakes and trash bags and wanting to clean up what a few bad


ROBERTS: ... had done. But you reap what you saw. And unfortunately, in
the city of Baltimore there was a long ago planted seed for what were
seeing now and it`s a problem that needs to be.


ROBERTS: . address, not only on the empowers community level but also from
the police policy level, and how this community, and the policing system
respond to one another.

SCHULTZ: The pictures that our audience is looking at right now, is a live
shot, the streets of Baltimore. These are high school students who are now
out of school and they are marching and protesting. This is a possibly
part of the large march that is going to take place later on from Union
Station which we are told us going to be consisting mostly of college kids.
These are high school kids that you`re looking at right now who are going
through the streets of Baltimore.

What kind of police presence, Trymaine, are we going to see tonight? Is it
going to be equal what was done last night as far as the National Guard is

LEE: From all accounts, the city will continue to use a thousand of
officers from the National Guard in area, police divisions and law
enforcement planning to get them on the streets tonight. They see what
happen last night as working by enlarge people adhere to the curfew, you
can see many people out an hour so after the curfew again.

But if you talk to activist, organizers and others, they say there still
law enforcement issues here. I spoke to the deputy director of the public
defender`s office just an hour or so ago. She said there are 111 people
currently in custody who don`t have their any charges. The police have
filled out there probable cause documents. And that means they can get a
bail hearing until they get those documents.

And so their concern is.


LEE: . what happens tonight if they are more arrests, Ed, so the 200 plus
are they going to be stuck in there.

I spoke to a retired NYFD lieutenant who said he`s daughter, Andrea Ross
(ph) has been arrested. She -- only just now he is getting phone calls,
she`s in a one-person cell with five other people. She doesn`t have any
charges. She doesn`t know what to do. She was apparently arrested
watching her boyfriend standing from a SWAT team vehicle. She got rope
(ph) into it. He said he talk to her the first time today and she was
(inaudible) and crying.

He said (inaudible) there`s no information coming in or out of that place.
And so this is kind of a picture and that she just one of perhaps 200
people that are arrested, let alone with the 111 without any charges yet.

And so, this is state of blight (ph)...


LEE: ... in Baltimore right now.

SCHULTZ: All right. Well, this is part of the police reform they got to
take care of the paperwork if they`re going to howl all these people
downtown. Thomas Roberts, Trymaine Lee and Joy Reid stay with us, great to
have you here on the Ed Show tonight, great reporting.

Let me bring in Maryland State Senator Catherine Pugh.

Catherine Pugh, State Senator, great to have you with us tonight, what are
your expectations of these protests that are starting to gear up late this
afternoon and then to the evening?

SEN. CATHERINE PUGH, (D) MARYLAND: Thank you for the invite. I just saw a
group of students who were marching past city hall, very peacefully. They
had stop and they had conversations with individuals who had talk about
what they`re looking for in terms of justice, and wanting the city to
remain very peaceful. And so I would expect that the city will remain
peaceful. I was there in my community from 8:00 A.M. to close to about
11:00 P.M. on yesterday as the folks, I think quietly demonstrated and had
there, you know, let out some of their own frustrations. And was
interesting because I had opportunity to talk to some of there reporters
that were out there and they were saying, this looks more like a festival
than a protest.

But I believe that some of the frustration that people are having they were
expressing the way that they felt like expressing them. So I expect them


PUGH: . be peace in the streets in Baltimore tonight.

SCHULTZ: Well, a couple of issues. Number one, obviously economic
development, you occupy somebody with the good job their life certainly

PUGH: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: . thinking of change, Senator, -- do you think the police
department in Baltimore has got the message, that they can`t operate the
way they`ve operated in the past and there has to be a shift in their
culture. What about that?

PUGH: Well, obviously, there needs to be change in the shift or the
culture, there needs to be more diversity in the police department, and I
think everybody has been saying all day long, and all evening, and
yesterday, that most of our police know how to function, but there is a
issue in our community of disrespect, you know.

We pay our police officers to protect and serve, and not serve and attack.
No one should be taken into police custody and end up dead, you know,
there`s something wrong with that picture and we`ve had it happen just too
many times. And so we are not only asking.


PUGH: . for cultural change, we`re asking for them to understand that
they`ve got to respect our communities and not -- I heard Hillary Clinton
earlier today say something that I said on yesterday. There needs to be a
discussion in this country around race and race relations, and how we begin
to work together and look at how we create more economic development and
somebody`s urban areas that are very depressed, and what about how do we
look at spreading the wealth, more fairly in this community, and in this


PUGH: . and being more just in our distribution of wealth, and the
creation opportunities in our communities. It`s absolutely important and
because one if things are also continue to say is, please don`t look at
though African-American community is being in monolithic. Everybody -- in
our communities, so there are people who have jobs, there are people who
know how to create businesses and expand their businesses. But, you know,
they also need the opportunity to be able to do that and I by no means, by
no means condone any of the activity that was negatively taken.


PUGH: . on Monday. But they were some misguided individuals and they were
some opportunities who took advantage of the situation. But for the most
part, I think people were expressing their frustrations but I ask Baltimore
to continue to be patient as many of us have already been. You know for
most of us, is just been too long in terms of how do we bring about justice
not just for Mr. Freddie Gray but for all the African-American males and
all of anyone, everyone who`s been incarcerated, who ends up being killed,
who ends up being treated unjustly. When police walk to your communities
and don`t understand how to respect them, we want justice for everyone.
Everyone in this country...


PUGH: ... who has a police department or police force deserves people who
want to serve their communities and know how to do it.

SCHULTZ: All right. Senator Catherine Pugh, I appreciate your time
tonight here on the Ed show. And of course, it is paramount that this
protest remained peaceful, so there will not be negative judgments made
about what is unfolding in Baltimore and progress can be made.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at, we`ll have the
results after the break. You can follow us on Facebook, you can watch my
Facebook feature "Give Me a Minute" and get my video podcast at

Coming up, the Baltimore protests just aren`t about Freddie Gray. We`ll
look at the underlying issues facing the city. And later, Vermont Senator
Bernie Sanders is ready to make his 2016 campaign, official. We`ll look at
what it means for the Democratic Party.

Stay with us, lots more coming up in the Ed show. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Here is where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. The
question, "Is Baltimore starting to return to normal?" 58 percent of you
responding say, no. 42 percent of you say, yes. The Bing Pulse Poll here
on the Ed Show on MSNBC. Those are the number early on.

We`ll be right back, keeping an eye on Baltimore. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We`ll continue to monitor the
situation in Baltimore as more peaceful protests are under way.

The unrest in the city of Baltimore is more than just about Freddie Gray.
Residents of the Sandtown neighborhood we`re pushing back against the
weight of poverty.

The unemployment in what neighborhood was over 50 percent between 2008 and
2012 with the height of the recession. Baltimore`s industrial base is
really going to through it. It has been shattered when American jobs were
shipped overseas. The city has lost 100,000 manufacturing jobs between the
years 1950 and 1995. Working families were left destitute. It changed the
entire community.

Maryland has the highest median household income in the nation. Although
in Sandtown, the income level is below the poverty level. The median
income is $24,000.

One resident said young people in Sandtown have nowhere to turn.


TERRELL, SANDTOWN RESIDENT: And we don`t have outlets for these kids (ph)
but the gems even our more (inaudible), like we said more playground, more
-- Like I said, we -- it`s like a war. If you think an outlet out of war
where are you going to plug anything? They have no electricity. These
kids have no electricity. No energy running through that city (inaudible)
to say I want to be this. I want to do this.


SCHULTZ: No electricity and no energy. How does that sound?

Economic conditions have failed. Baltimore`s young men and women, there is
no doubt about it. Over 60 percent of the Sandtown population has no high
school diploma.

Freddie Gray`s eulogy gave a broader picture of the citywide frustration.
Pastor Jamal Bryant said, "Gray had to feel at age 25 like the walls were
closing in on him". Baltimore`s youth needs a way to pushback, no question
about it and maybe this time, they`ve got the attention of the country.

Joining me tonight, Dr. James Peterson, MSNBC Contributor and Professor at
Lehigh University, also with us tonight Dayvon Love from the group Leaders
of a Beautiful Struggle, great to have both of you, gentlemen, with us

Dr. Peterson, how do we reverse the hopes and dreams of a neighborhood that
has been disseminated by economic conditions and no one has really said
that they are going to step up and invest in the economic job training or
the infrastructure that`s going to be needed to turn this around. I know
we`re early in this process but now that the light has been shown on this
community, what`s next?

JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, again, first step, Ed, is to do
what you just said which is first acknowledge the history acknowledge the
post industrial conditions of a city like Baltimore.

Secondly, is to -- if we want to sort of start to identify the resources
that need to be generated or channeled towards communities like West
Baltimore, North Baltimore is to better understand that Baltimore is a tale
of two cities.

It`s a city where there great institutions like Johns Hopkins University,
some interesting and some proper businesses there, great neighborhood like
a Baltimore Harbor neighborhood. And we`ve got to figure out a way, first,
for corporations to make sure they`re paying taxes and paying their fair
share and make sure that tax-based is distributed more equitably across the
city. But we`re not -- we don`t want to ultimately rely on the charity of
corporations or the charity of anyone. We`ve got to figure out how to
address these things systematically which means that is going to be...


PETERSON: ... in municipal governments, state governments that are working
together to rebuild education systems, rebuild communities.

But again, I`m not sure Ed, if everyone has acknowledged that first step.
And there are absolutely structure posts, industrial conditions that are
the predicate for this kind of situation that we`re seeing in Baltimore

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, you talk about changing law enforcement and their
culture, that`s just one piece of the pie. It`s occupying people`s times
and given them a hope in the future and in some economic stability is going
to change the community as much as a police activity as I see it.

Now, Mr. Love, let me ask you. Do you think that a lot of young people in
Baltimore identified with what happened to Freddie Gray and still have him
as the focal point of all of this?

Gray represents what has been happening to many young black people and
young people of color in Baltimore for decades where -- and really the only
viable solution, the substantive way of investment and the people in the
communities that are most directly affected about things like mass
incarceration, police brutality, poverty, homelessness. It`s only the kind
of investment in those communities that are actually makes a difference.

And I think the relationship between law enforcement and black people in
these neighborhoods is symbolic of the large structure of society. We live
in a society structure on races and the white supremacy, that`s a
fundamental lack of respect and regard for the humanity of black people.
And until we address the systemic issues, as Dr. Peterson said, everything
else is just going to be a bande (ph) and this demonstrations represent the
fact that no longer were people going to tolerate piecemeal solutions.

Until, there is a substantive way of investing in the neighborhoods and
changing the public policies that give license to police brutality, then
these issues have continued to be an issue.

SCHULTZ: Dayvon Love, do you think the worst is over? Do you think that
these protests have gotten the message across, they are going to remain
peaceful and how critical do you think it is that that`s the way it unfolds
moving forward?

LOVE: Well, so unfortunately, I think the question is where we actually
get justice. Because I think the decades long of neglects and abuse by the
public policies that have levy by a fail leadership, you know, all these
different things have already taken its tow (ph). And so really the
question that we have to be asking is, you know, are we going to get

And one of the refrains that, you know, I`m hearing a lot is, you know, we
need to come together and find a solution and that`s important. But it`s
important that in the coming together that we understand the importance of
change in a power differential. Because there are those who are in


LOVE: ... those are the power that have contributed to this problem and
until we acknowledge that, then all we going to get is bade (ph) solutions
that are continue to produce, reproduce what we`re saying over the past few

SCHULTZ: Well, I don`t want to get you critical of elected officials and
of people of authority in the city of Baltimore. But yesterday, on a lot
of the coverage, there were people saying that this isn`t our city. That
this doesn`t represent Baltimore, well, what does?

If you got high unemployment, if you got low economic development taking
place, and you got people who are -- have a lot of time on their hands,
then what is this city?

I mean, I think that there was a little bit of denial going on yesterday,
James Peterson.


SCHULTZ: I mean that was Baltimore, we were looking and it was frustrated
Americans who don`t feel like, you know, the wind is at their back for a
better future and the question now is, OK, what are we going to do about it
as a country?

I also think that there is a lot of Baltimores across this country.

PETERSON: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: And I think this is a really fundamental issue that has to be
addressed as a country or we`re going to have more Baltimores, and that`s
what I think is potentially damaging right here. Your thoughts on that,
Dr. Peterson.

PETERSON: Ed, you`re exactly right.

Now, listen, politicians are doing what politicians have to do which is
they`re trying to manage the situation and they are trying to direct their
rhetoric towards the management of that situation.

Maybe we can quibble with the words they use but your point here is much
more important which is -- not only as Baltimore, Baltimore, Ed, Baltimore
is America. It is a city that is municipally indicative of the income
gaps, the extreme wealth desperadoes across this nation.


PETERSON: So addressing those things at the federal or national level is
just as important as addressing indirectly and structurally in the city of

SCHULTZ: I agree, totally. James Peterson...

LOVE: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... Dayvon Love, stay with us more coming up here on the Ed Show.

Still to come, the challenger, we`ll take a look at what Bernie Sanders
campaign means for Hillary Clinton, the challenge. And we`ll have the
latest on the devastating earthquake in Nepal. Our guest Caroline Heldman
shares her personal connections to the disaster and, of course, we`re
watching the protest says, the "unfold peacefully" in Baltimore. We`ll be
right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.

It`s been five days since a massive earthquake rot Nepal.

At least 5,000 people were killed and thousands of others were injured.
The quake triggered this devastating scene on Mt. Everest.



SCHULTZ: The avalanche shut a based camp killing at least 18 people
including two Americans.

NBC`s Richard Engle has the latest from Mt. Everest.


RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We spoke to three rescue pilots,
all of them have told us that they do not believe that there are any
climbers who are still trapped or stranded on Mt. Everest. That most have
made their way down through the base camp, the place where we visited today
and are making their way off of the island, off of the base camp or they
have already been evacuated.

The base camp is where the main avalanche occurred and when we were able to
visit it today, we got a real sense of what happened.

On Saturday around noon when the earthquake struck, a large piece of ice,
and snow, and some rock broke off of mountain overlooking base camp. It
fell with incredible speed that avalanche swept through the middle section
of the base camp taking away tense, sending some climbers a hundreds of
feet in the air. It also wiped out the only medical facility on the base
camp, killing at least 15 maybe 17 people, maybe more.

They haven`t been able to go through all of the snow banks and there still
some efforts underway to locate the remains of climbers or Sherpas who are
in the area to assist them.

We did see some bodies coming out and it was one body mark in a body bag,
it said, unknown body. So clearly the identification process must go on.

But it was really only when we were there today that we actually understood
what happened. How these long base camp which is at 17,600 feet was cut in
half by a falling glacier.

SCHULTZ: Richard Engle reporting tonight from NBC News.

As the death toll in the poll rises, families are desperate for information
about their love ones. There are some Americans among the people still
unaccounted for.

Caroline Heldman`s sister, Kathleen was in a mountainous region a few hours
from Katmandu when the quake hit. Kathleen and her husband, Kevin, and two
of their friends have been rescued. They were about to begin a month-long
climbing trek before the quake hit.

Caroline Heldman, Professor of Politics at Occidental College who often
appears on this show, joins us tonight.

Certainly, congratulations is in order, Caroline, this must have been a
very gut-retching time for you and your family, tell us about it.

if they were alive for two days which a lot of families are going to
through right now and I feel for them. They were trapped above an
avalanche that wiped out the village of Langtang and the rural region of
Langtang which is closer to the epicenter than Everest or Katmandu. And a
lot of the rural areas simply didn`t have communications so they were
overlooked in the first rescue effort so we, you know, we waited with a lot
of families to find out about the well-being of our loved ones. And
thankfully, you know, we`re lucky, we`re really lucky.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. And I understand within the last 24 hours, you have spoken
with your sister. Tell us about that conversation, what did she go
through? How hair raising was that and life threatening?

HELDMAN: Well, the first day after the ravel covered the city or the
village of Langtang, people were climbing up of the ravel and of their crew
Brigitte Martinez (ph) is a registered nurse. She was the only medical
personnel in town up above of about 300 people and as people climb up of
the ravel, they were doing their best to patch them up. But they didn`t
have medical supplies and the temperature was, you know, rapidly dropping
and they run out of food.

So we were very thankful when they were picked up along with some villagers
and some Sherpas, some guides and taken to an army base at the base of
Gauri Sankar Mountain.

SCHULTZ: That is just unbelievable. This is something that she certainly
will never forget and, of course, those people that she was helping that
they`re lucky that there was a nurse on the scene. But did she describe in
anyway what the coming days are going to be like?

HELDMAN: Well, we`re not out of the woods yet. We haven`t heard from her
for seven hours, they are still in a rural area. They just had another
earthquake, 4.5. We hear word of mudslides and roads being wiped out, and
so we`re a long way off from being safe but we`re just so happy that she
got rescued from the above the avalanche.

SCHULTZ: Caroline Heldman, our prayers are with you all the best to you
and you family and your sister.

HELDMAN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

We`ll have an update from our reporters in Baltimore right after this as
the marches continue. Stay tune. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

We are monitoring the situation in Baltimore. You`re looking live at
marches that are unfolding in the city. Peaceful to this point and that is
the expectation.

Officers today in their press conference said that this is going to much
different day, the crowds have been very calm and there are two marches
that are unfolding today. One is going to start forming at the Penn
Station which we are told is going to be made up of mostly college
students, high school students have been marching in the streets

Let`s go live now Toure who is in the crowd. The demeanor, Toure what do
you hearing? What do they saying tonight?

TOURE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Ed, right now, they`re saying "No justice, no
peace" and Black Lives Matter. This is a fairly large crowd of college
students mostly, to some folks who are older, some folks little younger.
It`s very peaceful vibe, they`ve already spoken to the cops about there
won`t be any problem. So that`s it.

"All night, all day, we will fight for Freddie Gray", they`re saying.
There`s a lot of signs, there`s a lot of action, there`s lot of the
enthusiasm here. So very (inaudible) because about 500 people here, I
think mostly women a lot of freshmen and sophomores so lot of that youthful

Folks are extremely passion out here we`re talking to them before they
march, and they are filled with energy and wanting to be out here. This is
about a two-mile march if they`re going to do today, Ed. So it`s going to
be a while that we`re going to be out here and march over Penn Station,
over the city hall, Ed, back to you.

SCHULTZ: All right. That is one of the marches that is happening at this
moment in Baltimore.

For more, let`s go to Joy Reid and also Dayvon Love with us tonight, who is
from the group leaders in a Beautiful Struggles and, of course, MSNBC
National Reporter Joy Reid.

Joy, how important is it for this protest to come off peaceful to really
make the statement that needs to be made? Your thoughts.

REID: Well, Ed, I have to say I think that if you talk to the people in,
particularly, West Baltimore, East Baltimore and these communities. They
repeatedly make the point that whenever these marches happen, even the
initial marches, they are peaceful. That is the intent, these are peaceful
marches the fact that a small number of people broke away and decided to
use the opportunity as -- people have been using the word opportunist a

But people who also have their own struggles and their own sort of reasons
and pathologies for why they wanted to target, let say a CVS or target the
check cashing store that charging you 20 percent to cash or check, whatever
the endemic sort of problems that were happening in the cause maybe 100 out
of 10,000 people to behave badly. I think that there really is a fair
amount of anger at us, at the media, for characterizing every subsequent
march, every subsequent part of this movement which is not just here in
Baltimore but which is national, and the fact that the media sort of first
instinct is to then question every subsequent march for violent intent.

I think its part of the problem and people here have been reporting that
over and over. We have a mixed reaction, there are people who love MSNBC,
love to talk to us and are happy we`re here. Though we do have people also
saying but tell the honest story. There are deep seated problems here of

You don`t throw rocks at the police that you like entrust the police.
Police who are in the neighborhood and no people that are part of the
neighborhood don`t have to walk around and buy here (ph). They no people,
they have a relationship and there`s a sense that the police are almost
sort of an alien force here. They don`t live in Baltimore in many cases
they live over the state line, they live outside the community.

So what I have been hearing people say, and we talk to a lot of young black
men, is fix the problems, the poverty, the joblessness and get -- at least
to treat people with respect. Don`t worry about the marches, the marches
are intended to be peaceful always were intended to be, Black Lives Matter
movement is nothing but peaceful marches.

SCHULTZ: Thank you Joy. Dayvon Love, what`s the first thing that has to
happen? I mean, obviously, jobs aren`t going to take place overnight, it
probably starts with law enforcement, doesn`t it?

LOVE: Yes. I mean, so I think that lead to be systemic changes to the
institution of law enforcement that has an exist part of the problem and
Baltimore is that, in the state of Maryland, we have the Law Enforcement
Officer Bill of Rights. And what it does it that undermines the ability
for communities that have a substantive and formal method of readdress when
police abuse us.

And so for instance, only when law enforcement can investigate other law
enforcement and an allegation of excessive force, or the police job was to
determine disparity action on police officers and made up of just police

Those are the example of the kinds of institutional changes and need to be
made in order for the community feel safe, because that was a part of the
problem with the information about Freddie Gray. When the Mayor said a few
days ago that she didn`t know we know all the details, you know, she wasn`t
lying. I guess, a part of the problem with the law enforcement officer
bill of rights is that increase a context -- will increase insularity for
law enforcement that undermines the ability to hold them accountable. So
that`s the first step.

And I think the next part and I think this part is the most substantive is
that, we have to address the power differential like I mentioned earlier.
You know, there a lot of people that hustle in the miseries of black people
and poor people in general. And a part of the machinery in our city, is a
city that has veneer of looking like he cares about black people and its
citizens. But institutionally, it doesn`t provide resources to those and
who are most directly affected biases and racist and white supremacy and
all the different ails that it causes.

And so until we`re able to have honest leadership that will invest directly
in the hands of those who are in the communities who are who can build up
there owns institutions, to protect their own interest, then we`re going to
continue to have this problem. And this is why the power differential so
important and this why we have to address the leadership of the city.

SCHULTZ: Dayvon Love with us, live in Baltimore. And you`re looking at
live pictures here on MSNBC as the march is taking place in Baltimore, some
500 mostly college students, marching from Penn Station.

Our coverage continues here on MSNBC. We got more coming up on the Ed
show. Stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All night all, day, we will fight for Freddie Gray.
All night, all day, we will fight for Freddie Gray



SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Hillary Clinton is about to get her first official challenger from the

NBC News has confirmed Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders will announce his
candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination on Thursday. Ed Show
viewers, of course, know him as a champion of progressive issues like
income inequality, campaign finance reform, climate change, jobs, health
care, and Wall Street reform.

Tomorrow, I`ll sit down with Senator Sanders whereas for his first
interview as a Democratic candidate for president. Be sure to tune here on
the Ed Show. You won`t want to miss it.

We`ll be right back on the Ed Show. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, welcome back to the Ed Show. We`re
following the march taking place in Baltimore.

Let`s go back to Trymaine Lee, MSNBC National Reporter who was in the march
tonight. Trymaine, describe the crowd. They seem to be pretty

LEE: And I`ll tell you, Ed, there are several hundred people out here
right now. We`re marching down the same crossing from Penn Station to city

Now, there`s a huge vibrate crowd. You see it`s very diverse high school
students, college students. So you might expect a little diversity there.
And what one march (inaudible), she wants an ends to police brutality.

But again, you hear "All night, All day, we`ll fight for Freddie Gray",
their signs "Black Lives Matter".

But if you hear the crowd, they`re just getting started.

Now, once they get to city hall, there is huge area that people to gather
and that`s where (inaudible) a little perimeter right in front of the city

We`ll see how large this crowd swells and then see a response from the
National Guard and police but so far, it`s been peaceful, vibrating,
exuberant, but I think they are just getting started.

Above the sounds of the chant still here, there were of police helicopters.
They`ve been trailing the march the entire time. And so we`re not terribly
far from the city hall now. But as you can tell, the excitement is still

SCHULTZ: Is there a big police presence? I don`t see many police officers
going along with the protesters. What about that?

LEE: Ed, I`ll tell you what. So we begun the march right at Penn Station
and you could see a line of police cars in either side of the streets and
some police officer is milling about.

I don`t see a single police officer along the route and I haven`t the
entire time. But one thing I did see, when I first got to Penn Station,
there were two (inaudible) officers and kind of (inaudible) with their
shields and their helmets.

They would go in the officer direction and, so again, this is going to be
in a cat and mouse game moving ahead of the protesters and how to contain
folks. We have assumed that this part of the strategy, especially they
were -- so they`re aware of this march, hours early. They mention their
press conference so I`ve assumed its part of the plan but as of right now,
I don`t see any police anywhere.

SCHULTZ: All right. Too large marches taking place in Baltimore at this
hour. Trymaine Lee reporting live for us tonight here on the Ed Show right
in the middle of the crowd and that is the Ed Show.

This broadcast will originate from the nations capital tomorrow night.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening


<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>

The Ed Show Section Front
Add The Ed Show headlines to your news reader:

Sponsored links

Resource guide