Date: April 29, 2015
Guest: Rev. Jamal Bryant, Mark Puente, Donte Hickman, April Ryan, Charles
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: No end to the trouble.
Let`s play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.
There`s more trouble brewing in Baltimore tonight. For days now, people in
the rowhouses and streets have been expecting a report on the death of
Freddie Gray. It was supposed to be out this Friday. If there was
misconduct, a miscarriage of justice in the death of the 25-year-old,
police officers would be held accountable. Justice would be coming. In
the streets of west Baltimore, that belief has been sacrosanct. People
were told the truth was on the way this week.
Well, it`s not coming this week. That report is not going to be released
publicly this Friday. It`s headed to the Baltimore prosecutor`s office.
And what will happen there is up in the air.
And what will be the impact when the news of delayed action reaches those
in the streets? As the news slowly hits home in west Baltimore, what will
happen tonight? And tonight, there is a march on City Hall and more
demonstrations scheduled through Saturday. Some organizers say they`re
expecting 10,000 people on the streets this weekend.
A 10:00 PM city-wide curfew, of course, goes into effect again tonight.
Last night, 2,000 members of the National Guard were fanned out across
Baltimore, and tonight less than 300, although hundreds of additional law
enforcement officials from Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Washington, D.C.,
remain on the streets with the Baltimore police.
MSNBC`s Trymaine Lee is among a large crowd of protesters who`ve marched
from Baltimore`s Penn Station to City Hall, and he joins us now.
Trymaine, do the people around you know that there`ll be no public report
or accounting this week, that the Friday deadline is not going to be
honored? At least the expectations everybody`s has had will not be met?
TRYMAINE LEE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`ll tell you what, Chris. I`m not
sure what the folks know about that as of yet. It`s a huge, diverse crowd
of several hundred people. Now, we did march from Penn Station down to
City Hall. Now the crowd around us are marching back towards Penn Station.
As you see, it`s a largely peaceful, very diverse crowd. And I`m not sure
if you can hear them, but they`re saying, "All day, all night, we`re going
fight for Freddie Gray." And so the particulars may or may not be lost.
Some folks will come out here for different agendas, different motivations.
Some, it`s about police brutality. Some, they`re looking for direct
answers to the Freddie Gray killing. But again, it`s a large, diverse
And one other thing to note -- very scant police presence. We haven`t seen
many. Now, all the way from Penn Station originally, there were no police
officers lining the blocks. Only a few streets are blocked off by National
Guard. But a large, diverse crowd, largely peaceful. And surprisingly,
but for the whir of a police helicopter above us, no real police presence.
MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you. Hold on there, Trymaine.
MSNBC`s Toure is also with the protesters now at City Hall. Toure, are you
TOURE, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, I`m here. We`re marching back to
Penn Station, as Trymaine referenced. We were at City Hall. This actually
started at Johns Hopkins University, and then went to Penn Station, then
went to City Hall, and now we`re marching the two miles back to Penn
This has been students mostly, but we see a lot of parents with their small
children. You see right there, this has been multi-racial. It`s been
peaceful. Folks have wanted to get their frustrations out, get their
sentiments out, but do it peacefully.
This is a sanctioned rally that the police knew all about, so they`ve been
letting the people do what they want to do, move mostly wherever they want
I`m here with Allie Wood (ph), who`s a sophomore at the Maryland Institute
College of Art, indicative of how this is a rally mostly of students, a lot
of young women.
Allie, why are you out here today?
ALLIE WOOD, STUDENT: I wanted to show the community and all the people of
the nation, basically, that Baltimore isn`t all riots and anger all the
time. We want peace. We want justice. But we don`t want it in a way
that`s going to cause harm to anyone else.
TOURE: Yes, this is something we`ve been hearing over and over, Chris,
from Baltimoreans, that they want the nation to see another side of them,
that, We`re not all riots. We want to show --
MATTHEWS: All right, what does -- what does --
TOURE: -- the nation that we know how to protest peacefully.
MATTHEWS: What does that young lady to your left want to see this week
from the authorities?
TOURE: What is it that you want to see this week from the authorities?
WOOD: I want to see an active attempt to change and make a real change.
TOURE: But in terms of what happened with Freddie Gray, is there something
you want to hear the police or the district attorney say or the attorney
general say about what happened, about what they`re going to say or do with
WOOD: I want them to take accountability with the autopsy report, or at
least to have a truthful response to what actually went down.
TOURE: I mean, do you think that if there was not an arrest or that sort
of thing, or an indictment, would you be unhappy?
WOOD: Not necessarily an arrest, but maybe someone definitely taking
responsibility for it, and active changes happening within the Baltimore
TOURE: Yes, Chris, I think a lot of people out here want to see some sort
of action. And if they don`t see it, they`ll be displeased.
MATTHEWS: Well, what amazes me is the calm out there. I don`t think it`s
going to last, myself, because when people realize the report that they
expected this Friday is not going to be forthwith (ph), I think there`s
going to be a change in the temperature in that crowd. What do you think?
TOURE: I think that`s right. I mean, I think we saw something similar in
Ferguson. We something similar in New York around Eric Garner, that when
folks realize that they don`t get the sort of accountability that they`ve
been expecting --
TOURE: -- then they`re going to be a little upset. I talked to a man
the other day who said, We`re always asked to be calm and let justice play
its way out. But then, he said, We never get justice. That`s what
(INAUDIBLE) said to me.
MATTHEWS: Toure, great report. Thanks to that young lady next to you.
NBC`s Peter Alexander`s with the protesters at City Hall in Baltimore.
Peter, your -- let me go to you, Peter. You know, last night, we talked
for an hour on this program at 7:00 o`clock Eastern about how there was
going to be a report this Friday coming from the police commission, and it
was going to give us some information as to what went wrong, how that young
man -- or that man had his spinal cord broken and killed, led to his death.
We were going to get some facts, perhaps some accountability.
Now we`re getting the word -- "clarified" is the new term at City Hall in
this city, "clarify" is the favorite word now -- that it`s not going to be
for another week. It`s going to go to the DA, and we don`t know if it`ll
ever get public.
So is that going to be a problem this weekend? I would think so.
PETER ALEXANDER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you make a really good
point. We spent much of our day in west Baltimore. I sat down on the
stoop outside a property of Tracey (ph) and John Williams (ph). They`re
grandparents. They were holding their little granddaughter, Neveah (ph),
in their hands. Neveah -- "heaven" spelled backwards, they said to me.
And they said, We`re worried about her. They`re worried about their young
grandchild and about their own children in this community.
They said they had the day, Friday, circled on their calendar because
that`s when they anticipate that things could go well or could go very
poorly. They feared violence returning to that neighborhood as a result of
the investigation being released. But what they wanted most was justice.
ALEXANDER: They wanted transparency, and they wanted accountability. And
their frustration tonight -- and frankly, to be clear with you, those
protesters that marched by -- we joined them for a period of time. A lot
of the people, Chris, I spoke to in the crowd had not yet heard this news.
It hasn`t filtered through the community yet.
MATTHEWS: I would say it`s going to be a problem --
MATTHEWS: And I -- the people in the news division down here I`ve talked
to covering local events up there, they didn`t hear until today that
there`s not going to be a report on Friday. Everybody has been expecting
this report. And this is going to be a thunderclap, I predict, when it
gets out that they are sitting on this thing. It`s not going to have any
kind of public reality. And whatever calm there`s been since Monday I
don`t think`s going to continue. Just a thought.
ALEXANDER: I think you`re right. And one of the individuals I spoke to
within the last five minutes said to me right now, he said these officers
should be outraged that the cops, these six individuals, in his eyes, that
were responsible for the death of Freddie Gray have not yet been
prosecuted, have not yet been indicted or arrested. They said, That`s our
frustration. This entire city, not just us, this whole city, including law
enforcement, should be furious about this, as well.
And I anticipate that`s the type of fury and the anger -- and we hope it
remains peaceful, but certainly, what we think we will be seeing in the
days ahead, ultimately, when that news trickles down, and ultimately, when
the information is released.
MATTHEWS: Thanks so much. Thanks so much, Peter Alexander.
Let`s go right now to Ron Allen of NBC News. He`s also with the march of
protesters. Ron, what`s happening in your area?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, it`s our job as citizens of the city to
make sure that the police are held accountable for --
MATTHEWS: Ron? Hey, Ron?
RON ALLEN, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, I hear you. I`m sorry. I was
involved with a conversation with a professor from a local university.
Again, it`s -- why are you out here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m out here because my students are marching. I
want to show solidarity with my students. I want to show solidarity with
the citizens of Baltimore. What`s happening to the black community is not
right. And as a white (INAUDIBLE) I want to show my support.
ALLEN: But there`s a process in place. There`s an investigation going on.
Why not -- (INAUDIBLE) you seem to have little faith in that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my dad is a police officer in the city of
Chicago, and I grew up thinking I was going to be a police officer. So for
me, it`s really, really important that I hold the police to the highest
level of accountability. And the government is not holding them
accountable. The city`s not holding them accountable.
So I want to be out here and show my support and make sure that the city is
holding them accountable.
ALLEN: You know, the nation is involved in this very contentious,
emotional discussion about all these issues. What stops this? What brings
everybody together? What gets people like you off the streets? I know.
It`s a tough question. There may be no answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think that there`s -- I moved here three
years ago, and I was shocked to see that there are neighborhoods that have
just been systematically cut off from all the -- everything that`s going on
in Baltimore. You know, they`re really hard neighborhoods to live in, and
the city has sort of forgotten them.
And I think that we really need to give a lot more opportunities to the
people of the city because there are such disenfranchised populations. And
without education and without outreach, there`s a large group of people
that don`t have an outlet for their frustrations and for the energy of
being a young person in the city.
So I think addressing the education and focusing on getting those
communities the services that they need to thrive is what I would like to
ALLEN: Obviously, this is about more than Freddie Gray and Michael Brown.
It`s about education. It`s about jobs. It`s about so many things.
Chris, I even heard one woman say that this is about the circumstances of
black people around the world beyond America and Africa -- a lot of depth
to the passion, anger, yes, anger, frustration that we`re seeing here on
the streets. Back to you.
MATTHEWS: Thanks, Ron Allen of NBC News.
Let`s go right now to Pastor Jamal Bryant. He spoke at Freddie Gray`s
funeral the other day. His church, the Empowerment Temple, held an
emergency town hall meeting just last night in Baltimore. Pastor Bryant
joins us now.
Pastor Bryant, I`ve been so impressed by your wisdom and your prudence in
the way you`re looking at this incredible event. Weren`t you under the
impression we were going to get a report from the police commission this
REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE: I was. That`s what the
commissioner announced initially, that it would be May 1st. And so
everybody has always -- has been on edge the last 11 days, somewhere
between Christmas Eve and doomsday, considering what the report is when it
MATTHEWS: Well, now we`re hearing there isn`t going to be a public report
this Friday. It`s going to be sent over -- whatever they`ve come up with
at the commission for the police department is going to be sent privately,
secretly, if you will. Let`s put it this way, not publicly -- to the DA`s
office, and that we won`t even know for another week at least, if then,
what`s going to be done, if anything, about what happened to Freddie Gray.
BRYANT: My hope is that the powers that be will stop announcing dates
because it`s almost like milk. It`s fresh as long as that date doesn`t
come. But past it, things can get sour. And you can see that things have
been mounting, the ebb and tide. And so if they would just stop releasing
dates and just tell us that there`s going to be some answer, simply, how
did Mr. Gray die, it`d give all of a sigh of relief.
MATTHEWS: Besides you and the mother that had to cuff her kid and whack
him out of his mood that day, with the hood on, and took him out of the
action there that day, that everybody`s been talking about, is any public
official doing anything that impresses you right now, any elected official
worthy of their office right now?
I haven`t seen much greatness lately in Baltimore. Your thoughts.
BRYANT: Oh, there`s --
MATTHEWS: Statewide or in Baltimore.
BRYANT: Oh, yes. I think there`s a Purple Heart due to Congressman Elijah
Cummings, who`s been in the streets every day --
BRYANT: -- meeting with the young people. And he`s become a hero. And
our former congressman, Kwesi Mfume, has operated exemplary valor (ph) in
the midst of this trying time.
MATTHEWS: Well, thank you. Let me ask you -- I got a bunch of questions
here. I`m going to throw them all at you, Reverend, because you know what
you`re talking about.
BRYANT: All right.
MATTHEWS: What are you doing to improve the situation?
BRYANT: We had, as you just aforementioned, a town hall meeting. And
we`re training even now groups of men who are going to go out at night to
get all of these young people out of the street so that we can, in fact,
resume the main fact (ph), that breaking up of glass at CVS and turning
cars into fire does not get us justice.
And so we`re trying to keep everybody focused that what we want is complete
police reform. We want a revision of the Officers` Bill of Rights. And we
want answers and closure for Freddie Gray`s family.
MATTHEWS: OK. It`s great having you on. We hope to have you back again,
Reverend Bryant. Thank you. Here in -- Jamal Bryant --
BRYANT: It`s my pleasure. Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Here in Washington, I`m joined by Charles Ellison of "The Root,"
April Ryan -- of course, we have here on all the time, and lucky to have
her -- the White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks.
And Howard Dean, of course, was governor of Vermont and chairman of the
Let me start with you, Charles. And I get all these questions because I`m
tired of just people complaining. One of them is the economic piece here.
CHARLES ELLISON, "THE ROOT": Right.
MATTHEWS: I mean, the fact that these kids are available because the only
job is the drug trade -- as somebody said about an hour ago on this
network, all the cops do is commit a deal (ph) and try to shut down the
drug trade, which is the only business going on, the only economic
activity, which means there`s always going to be a war --
MATTHEWS: -- between the cops trying to stop the only way these kids
have of making money, which is totally destructive of the community,
ELLISON: It is. It is. I mean --
MATTHEWS: I mean, the drug trade --
ELLISON: You can take a -- you can take a casual drive through Baltimore,
and you can see that there`s a lit match that was always, like, halfway to
the gas puddle, right? And so there`s this sort of outrage is a shock (ph)
that this is went down in Baltimore, that we have the social unrest here,
but it`s been something that`s been boiling for quite some time.
You`ve got a poverty rate, a city-wide poverty rate, combined poverty rate
of about 25 percent in Baltimore. The black poverty rate by itself is 24
percent in Baltimore in a state, Maryland, which is about 32 percent black.
So you`ve got these -- these huge social -- these gaping socio-economic
disparities that have been there for quite some time, and then they bubbled
over. So now you`ve got this crisis of racial and socio-economic
dimensions. You`ve got this public safety crisis that`s there in
But it doesn`t help that you`ve also got this -- this -- this instance of
management malfeasance on the part of City Hall. And just -- it`s a crisis
of crisis management and not being able to just handle what`s happening
there in Baltimore right now so they can move on to the next -- the next
sort of important piece is trying to not only get answers about Freddie
Gray`s death, but where does Baltimore go from here. What`s the next
level? What`s the next --
MATTHEWS: You know, I`ve been watching this situation since I was 5, I
think. And what goes on here is, it seems if you live in the community and
you`re having a tough life raising a family and surviving, April, that you
got to blame somebody nearby. It used to be the grocers or the business
guys that come in there to make a buck in the neighborhood. They got
blamed, right? We`ve been through all that. And then they`re called
usurpers, outsiders, whatever.
Now you blame the police. And the reality is, the cops are in there with a
terrible job. Their job is to go in there in their cars and stop people
from breaking the law. That`s the only job they got. And that`s not going
to create lot of happiness when the only way you make a living is breaking
APRIL RYAN, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Yes. Chris --
MATTHEWS: And that`s the horror of it.
RYAN: Yes, that is the horror of it. And as we talk, I am getting tears
in my eyes because I am from Baltimore, very much from Baltimore, grew up
in the city, born in the city, and I still live outside of the city. And
MATTHEWS: Did you live in west Baltimore, the really tough neighborhood?
RYAN: I lived at one point in northeast Baltimore and northwest Baltimore.
I did. And I live in -- outside within the suburbs now. But Baltimore
MATTHEWS: How`d you get out?
RYAN: How did I get out? We just worked. And that`s the interesting
thing. And you hit on something. You try to work as hard as you can to
stay away from what is anticipated or expected for you as a black person in
this country, unfortunately. And it`s hard work that gets you out of that.
But I`m going to tell you this. I go into that community. My hairdresser
is just blocks from Penn and North. I mean,you know, when I was a kid,
there was a nightclub that we used to frequent on that street called
Odell`s (ph). The school headquarters for Baltimore city is on North
Avenue, just blocks down the street.
And you also have this wonderful community called Bolton (ph) Hill, a rich
enclave of brownstones just blocks from Penn and North. And then you also
MATTHEWS: Is that an African-American neighborhood?
RYAN: No. No it`s not. No, it`s not. But --
MATTHEWS: It was gentrified.
RYAN: No, it`s not. No, it`s not. But there is regentrification in
Baltimore, particularly when it comes to the harbor area. When Governor
MATTHEWS: Oh, I know that. Yes.
RYAN: Yes, when Governor William Donald Schaefer was mayor, he bought
those houses for $1 around the harbor when Rash Field -- when it was Rash
Field, nothing but dirt, and built up the beautiful harbor and built up
these magnificent million-dollar homes.
And the black people who were living in those dilapidated houses that he
turned into beautiful homes -- that they turned into beautiful homes, could
not come back, could not afford it.
So there is a problem within the black community in Baltimore, particularly
that area. They don`t have arts in the schools. They don`t have physical
education. Many of the children are overweight. Then you see a lot of
people that have nothing to do. They`re on the corner.
And I did talk to some people today on that corner on Penn and North, and I
asked them about the report. They`re waiting for the report. And there`s
a level of expectation that`s --
MATTHEWS: Yes, I know.
RYAN: -- not going to be met. People are going to be very upset by it.
MATTHEWS: I think they got a real problem with this simple fact. Don`t
promise something you`re not going to deliver, and don`t let it simmer out
RYAN: Exactly. Exactly.
MATTHEWS: It`s brewing. Governor, thoughts quickly.
HOWARD DEAN (D-VT), FMR. GOVERNOR, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it`s -
- really, I look back at the `60s, there are some things here that we can
have some hope for. It`s nice to see some white people in the street
protesting this. You never would have seen that during the riots in `68.
This is not as violent as it was in the `60s.
But I think April has hit it right on the head. This is about -- this is
not just about Freddie Gray, at this point. This is about economics. If
you go to Baltimore, it`s like north Philadelphia. It`s one of the cities
that has not come back, like New York or some of these other places.
Washington, D.C., is another one.
We have a big economic problem in this country, and a lot of it has to do
with race. And we are not doing a good job in our inner city schools. And
that`s the pass out.
So we still have a lot of stuff to discuss that`s an echo of 1968, and we
ought to be using this to discuss that and get something done. And I hope
it isn`t just papered over with an autopsy report and all this stuff. It`s
not just about Freddie Gray.
MATTHEWS: First thing we need is the autopsy.
Still ahead, the pastor who helped fund and develop that senior citizen
center that was burned down on Monday night. What he thinks about what`s
been happening. He`ll be with us in just a minute.
And we are awaiting, of course, a news conference by Baltimore police
coming out in just a few moments. That`s be interesting when they tell us
they won`t have a report on Friday for us.
And we continue to watch protesters taking to the streets of Baltimore
This is HARDBALL, the place for politics.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. We`re back with you.
We`re told the police investigation into the circumstances of Freddie
Gray`s death would conclude this Friday, May 1. It`s a date the police
announced as their deadline over a week ago. And that`s what we were told.
We were told that. We were told that.
The results of that investigation are, of course, highly anticipated and
will be used to determine if any of the six officers involved with Freddie
Gray on the day of his arrest will be charged in connection with his death.
This is the heart of the story right now, the timing issue.
But, as a Baltimore police spokesman now says, Friday is the deadline to
turn their findings over to the state prosecutor. That doesn`t mean there
will be any public announcement this Friday about what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. ERIC KOWALCZYK, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: What we are going to
do, which is unique, is turn over all of our findings, all of our
investigative efforts to the state`s attorney`s office.
We cannot release all of the information from this investigation to the
public, because, if there is a decision to charge in any event by the
state`s attorney`s office, the integrity of that investigation has to be
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, as I said a few moments ago, we`re expecting a news
conference by the police in just a few minutes. And we will be covering
it, of course, the second it happens.
I`m joined right now by Mark Puente, who is an investigative reporter with
"The Baltimore Sun."
Mark, what is going on here with the timing of the release of this report
by the police? When is it going to be publicized? Ever?
MARK PUENTE, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": Well, it will become public, I think,
once the charges are announced or there is no wrongdoing concluded by the
The commissioner initially announced a week ago Monday that everything will
be turned over on May 1. But, last Friday, at his press conference, he
said that would happen, but there`s an investigation still would be
ongoing, and then the state`s attorney would undergo her investigation.
So now everybody has kind of cautioned everybody that -- not to read too
much into that, because nothing will likely come out of that Friday.
MATTHEWS: But isn`t the people in the -- well, look, we did a whole
program. And everybody on our network and every other network has been
talking to people on the streets of Baltimore, West Baltimore.
And everybody is talking about they can`t wait until Friday, which is just
two days from now. So, they got a report. We just heard somebody had
their calendar circled for that day, like it`s the big day. It`s like a
most important day. And now we`re told, don`t rely on that, because
nothing public could come out.
This is going to be very frustrating over the weekend, if this is the way
they handle this thing.
PUENTE: Well, there`s a lot of people who still haven`t heard that message
that the information is not going to be revealed.
And that`s why officials now, including Freddie Gray`s attorney -- family`s
attorney, Billy Murphy, is telling people not to read too much into that,
and to lower the expectations within the community. They want a thorough
investigation. They want the findings to remain secret.
MATTHEWS: Well, that`s not going to come over too well.
Anyway, thanks, Mark Puente, for your great reporting for "The Sun."
PUENTE: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: MSNBC`s Joy Reid has more now on the disconnect over the Friday
Joy, I`m waiting to hear from you. What went wrong in the reporting, the
press releases, the statements by the police that led everybody in the
streets that you have been covering so well to believe Friday was
deliverance day? Now there is going to be no delivery of information or
JOY REID, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Well, absolutely, Chris.
And I have to say, I went back and started looking over some of the reports
to find out if maybe all of the media had a mass hallucination, because we
all were led to believe that Friday was the day that there was going to be
a release of information. And just ordinary people on the street believed
the same thing.
And you could simply say, well, they were getting it from the media, who
was getting it wrong in the first place. I will tell you that I spoke with
a pastor who was one of 15 members of the clergy and a couple of business
leaders who met with Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake earlier today for the
first of a couple of meetings. There is going to be another one tomorrow.
And what this pastor told me was that she briefed them and explained to
them that it was always a misunderstanding, that the process is that there
is a date certain when the police turn over their information to the state
authority, which is the state prosecutor.
But I can tell you that the earlier statements that were coming out of the
police department here in the city of Baltimore did make it appear that
they were going to make a release of information on the 1st, not turning it
over to the prosecutor, because, as we have seen in other cases, like the
Walter Scott case in South Carolina, once it goes to the state prosecutor,
it`s almost never then -- there is almost never a public release, because
then it`s a state investigation.
MATTHEWS: And you said that earlier.
REID: But then that allows the local authorities, when we`re --
MATTHEWS: I think you said that well.
REID: Well, what ends up happening is that --
MATTHEWS: Yes, go ahead, go ahead.
REID: No, no, no, I`m sorry. I didn`t mean to interrupt you, Chris.
But, I mean, the thing is that what we have seen in the past is that, once
a state prosecutor has hold of a case, then they almost never release
information. But it then allows the local authority, when you then go and
ask them questions, when people like you and I go to the PIO, the public
information officer, they just refer us to the state.
So it creates this feedback loop where there is no information to the
public. But I can tell you, there are -- these ministers that met with the
mayor, at least according to the one I spoke with, said that they were
convinced by what she said. They felt she was being transparent.
But now what they want them to do is to go back to the community and have
these ministers try to explain that to the people here in this community.
Based on the people I have been talking, to Chris, that is not going to go
over very well at all.
MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, Joy Reid. You`re on target here.
The three-alarm fire, by the way, that destroyed a senior housing center at
the Southern Baptist Church in Northeastern Baltimore was one of the most
vivid scenes of devastation this Monday night, of course. The construction
of that center, which was to offer 60 affordable housing units, was viewed
as a symbol of progress, of course, in the community.
And it was only nine months away from being finished. But now an Indiana
architecture firm has offered to help actually rebuild it. Here is how
they delivered that news to the church`s pastor, Donte Hickman, last night
on ABC`s Baltimore`s affiliate, WMAR.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE (D), MAYOR OF BALTIMORE, MARYLAND: The police
department chose Friday as their goal, their deadline to be able to give
the information over to the state`s attorney, understanding that she is
conducting her own -- her own investigation right now.
And she will use the information that the police give her to further her
investigation. So there won`t be any -- she certainly won`t be able to in
the same day that she gets that information to supplement what she is doing
in the investigation make a determination about whether or not there are
going to be charges. And I certainly don`t want to give people the
impression that the -- that our state`s attorney will have made a decision
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, that was the wrong tape. We will get to that.
I`m joined right now, however, by the man we want to talk to, Pastor Donte
Hickman of Baltimore`s Southern Baptist Church.
So, this has been a roller coaster of emotions and reality for you, Pastor,
losing your senior center and now being told you have a chance to rebuild
PASTOR DONTE HICKMAN, SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH: Absolutely, Chris.
We are excited about what we believed by faith would take place, that, as
we have sown in tears, that we would reap in joy. And what was negative is
being turned into a positive. We were already told by our developers and
general contractors that we would be able to restart the building. We
already had an architect in place.
But to hear the news coming from HCO just helps us to continue to further
the development that we were doing down the street from the church,
building 75 more affordable townhomes in the community.
MATTHEWS: I want to show you this tape for your benefit and the audience`s
right now, Pastor Hickman. Here is that emotional moment of you on the
local ABC affiliate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe in miracles?
HICKMAN: I believe in miracles. I believe by faith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to experience one right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going take you live to Indianapolis.
We have Michael Bluitt standing by. Michael is an architect, and he too,
like everybody else, has a broken heart over what you have experienced.
MICHAEL BLUITT, HCO, INC.: God makes no mistakes. He wants you to have
better than what you had initially anticipated. And we want to be an
instrument in providing the necessary services to get you to where you want
to go, my brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, I don`t know if you can see him, but he is
very emotional right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, it`s all on tape. Commitments have been made, Pastor.
It`s all there for you.
You know the situation as well as anybody will ever know it. It`s
happening. You`re going to get that senior citizen -- tell me, who is
going to -- who is going to live there when you do get it built? People
from that area?
HICKMAN: People from that area are going to benefit from that senior
housing facility. And it`s just a catalyst development for what we have
been doing in East Baltimore.
We have been restoring people and rebuilding properties simultaneously.
And I think Freddie Gray`s death is not in vain, because it`s really
shining a light on the depravity and the lack of investment that has been
taking place in East Baltimore. And now people from all over the world are
seeing that someone is trying to do something that the city has not done.
And now we`re getting ready to revitalize East Baltimore. And we hope that
that helps Ferguson and Detroit and everyone to realize that if we can
rebuild Iraq, we ought to be able to rebuild our urban cities in America.
MATTHEWS: That`s a popular thought, what you just said there. Start --
you know, charity begins at home.
Let me ask you about younger people. Mayor Barry, who was mayor of D.C.,
and had his problems, but one of them wasn`t that -- one problem he didn`t
know is, he knew where the people`s needs were. And he had a summer jobs
program here for the young men in this city, especially young men in their
teen years, when they could get into trouble. He got them jobs in the
And that got them used to going to work. It`s a great training program for
a kid to know what work is and what showing up means. And what do you
think the politicians ought to be doing? This isn`t a left-wing argument.
What do you think politicians ought to be doing and learning from this
lesson about young people and how they have to have opportunities or
they`re going to think of their own?
HICKMAN: I think the politicians need to get into the trenches. This is a
moment of reality and crystal clarity.
We have known this in Baltimore for decades, that there has been
disinvestment and no care for the people who are in the urban communities.
Our mayor has put forth a great summer works program, in which our church
is involved with the interviewing process of students. But it`s not
I think they have a communication problem that is being even evidenced with
this justice call that is supposed to be happening on Friday.
HICKMAN: They are just not -- they are reactive, rather than being
proactive. And they have good news, even just like the Obama
administration. But nobody knows how to tell the good news. They allow
the bad news to get all over the place.
MATTHEWS: Well, Reverend Hickman, let`s hope there is a good news on a
Friday report that apparently is vanishing as we speak.
Anyway, thanks for joining us, Reverend Hickman.
Demonstrators are now taking place -- demonstrations -- around the country
in solidarity with the people in Baltimore. And in New York right now,
hundreds of people have gathered in Union Square. That`s a famous place to
demonstrate. And demonstrations have gotten a bit ugly up there.
NBC`s Amanda Sakuma joins us now. She reports that police are -- no, she
is not joining us -- are clashing with protesters. And police have made
several arrests. We will continue to watch what is happening up there.
Let me go right -- go right back to the panel.
You have been with bated breath here, Governor. And I would -- you know, I
would like to say, I was there in `68. I wasn`t standing on the corner of
14th and U., but everybody saw the city burning. And here we are again,
all these years later. This is 32 plus 15, 47 years later. This is --
this is late in the game.
HOWARD DEAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: The reverend put his finger exactly
This is economic disinvestment. Instead of arguing about cutting taxes for
people who make a million and $2 million, $3 million a year, we ought to
put that same amount of money into tax credits for people who are
redeveloping that housing. Everybody wins that.
DEAN: Everybody wins that. You -- then people get a decent place to live.
You also got to do something about --
MATTHEWS: Where is the Democratic Party agenda we don`t hear? Where`s
summer jobs? Where`s --
MATTHEWS: -- programs? I don`t hear it.
DEAN: Well, actually, Hillary -- there needs to be more ofit.
I thought Hillary got it off to a pretty good start today, talking what
Michelle Alexander wrote her book about, "The New Jim Crow," which is
reform of the prison system.
DEAN: This is ridiculous, warehousing a third of all black men at some
point in their lifetime. This is crazy.
And we -- we have not come to grips with the same issues that were raised
CHARLES ELLISON, THE ROOT: It`s not like that summer jobs model that you
had mentioned that Marion Barry put forth in D.C., it`s not like it is not
It is proven, because it`s actually credited with actually creating a --
sort of an era of affluency in D.C., not just in Washington, D.C., black
affluency, not just in Washington, D.C., but it`s credited with creating a
black, a vibrant black middle class in neighboring Prince George`s County,
ELLISON: It`s actually credited with partly building up the black middle
class throughout the state of Maryland. And that`s one of the reasons why
Maryland is such an affluent state as it is.
MATTHEWS: Yes. OK.
ELLISON: So, you can do the same thing in Baltimore.
MATTHEWS: Let`s go to Amanda Sakuma. We`re right back, April.
Amanda Sakuma, Amanda is there at the -- what is happening right now at
AMANDA SAKUMA, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Hello. We`re just on 17th Street
right off Union Square. And about five minutes into the protest here, we
saw about -- the police were in a line, and there was a major clash with
the protesters here.
And there have been several arrests made. We have seen several people
hauled into the ground. I was trampled on the ground while we were in the
middle of the street. Police made clear that they did want to see anyone
blocking major roadways. They did not want to see anyone blocking the
They have been pushing people out on to the sidewalk. But, for right now,
there -- things are starting to calm down. But I did see a police officer
who was trampled on the ground. Many officers came to save him. He got
trampled, though. And there have been other protesters that have been
trampled on the ground.
And this is what we`re seeing here so far.
MATTHEWS: Amanda, can you tell whether the people causing trouble or
acting violently toward the police were among the actual organized
protesters, or were they opportunists? Could you tell?
SAKUMA: I wouldn`t necessarily say that the protesters were actively being
violent against the police officers here.
They made clear that they wanted to have a peaceful march. The police
officers did make clear to the protesters that they did not want to see
them in the middle of the roadway, in the middle of the streets. And the
protesters made that clear. The leaders made that clear to the groups who
are wanting to come out.
So, remember, these are many of the same groups that were able to block the
Brooklyn Bridge in the past. They have done these protests in the past and
were able to do so without much difficulty. And so it was a bit surprising
to see so much -- such a hard line from the police officers here.
They basically stood in a straight line and blocked the roadways. And so,
when there were so many people following suit, it kind of brushed up into
one another. And that`s basically how the clashes began.
MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, Amanda Sakuma, who is at Union Square in New
York. And we will be back to you if there is more trouble.
Let me go to April on this. Everybody -- I mean, Hillary Clinton has dived
into the deep end of the pool. I understand why she has to do it. She is
expected to speak out.
But this idea about reducing incarceration -- obviously, incarceration is a
function of a number of things. Perhaps it`s an injustice of the justice
system. Perhaps there`s a lot of crime in the black community. Perhaps --
there`s -- a lot of factors lead to this thing.
But when people say, what do you do, so let`s go to cases now. You pick up
somebody on the corner who is dealing. He has got enough drugs on him to
be dealing. He clearly is dealing. He is making money off other people`s
Now, do you slap his wrist and say, don`t do that again? You`re on --
because that doesn`t work. That doesn`t work. Do you pin him with a 20-
year sentence? Obviously, that`s a disaster. By the time he is out in 20
years, he is worse than he went in. What is it? Some people say a quick,
hard slap of a couple of years, then let them out. You have to find --
what is the secret to -- punishment to end the crime? How does it work?
APRIL RYAN, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Do you do tough love or do you
a holistic approach?
And I know several judges in Baltimore. And we have been talking about
this. They try to look at it as a social worker almost. And that`s what
they think. Sometimes, that`s what they are.
MATTHEWS: Does that teach a young man not to commit the crime again? Does
RYAN: But they`re -- one judge told me that she told a young man who was
dealing drugs, I expect more from you. And he came back and he told her, I
have got a job now.
You have to find the line. I`m not in that position.
MATTHEWS: How many people would that work with, that approach?
RYAN: I don`t know, but she had at least one. But you have to figure out
which way to go.
DEAN: And every case is different.
MATTHEWS: Some kid will walk out of there and laugh at you.
RYAN: Exactly. Exactly, and do it again.
DEAN: So, here is the deal, though. And this is where you can experiment,
which we haven`t done with this.
So the average person that you just described is addicted to drugs
themselves, is why they`re selling.
MATTHEWS: Well, that is -- that is a leap.
RYAN: You don`t take your own product. You don`t smoke up or shoot your
DEAN: No, the higher you go, the less likely that is. But the average
person is feeding their own habit.
DEAN: Those people ought to be sentenced, but they ought to be sentenced
to drug rehab.
MATTHEWS: Yes, but I think there is a lot of people out in the streets
making money on it. That`s the great -- look at this. We`re looking at
the arrests now in New York City.
RYAN: They`re still hurting from Eric Garner. They`re still hurting from
DEAN: That`s true.
ELLISON: Eric Garner, Akai Gurley.
MATTHEWS: Apparently, this was a demonstration on the issue of Freddie
Gray down in Baltimore.
RYAN: But they`re still hurting from -- from Eric Garner.
MATTHEWS: And -- OK, the Garner -- you`re right. The Garner family is
going to speak at this protest.
ELLISON: Garner, Akai Gurley.
MATTHEWS: So they`re going to get -- these are all getting intertangled
RYAN: This is a real issue in this country. The spotlight is on it.
MATTHEWS: OK. Let me ask you. You cover this. You, Charles, when this
thing started, before Ferguson, down in Florida with Zimmerman, and the
vigilante case, and then it led to a lot of police cases. But it had the
same kind of look to it, a white guy killing a black guy, right, and
totally unjust situation, with no real justification.
MATTHEWS: And the court system got into it where you have cameras. It`s
been different, clearly. And you go to Ferguson, you go to Garner, you go
to Cleveland with the kid getting killed in schoolyard. On the cop that
arrived there`s two seconds before and the kid is dead.
RYAN: Toy gun.
RYAN: That`s toy gun.
MATTHEWS: Put the factors together. Tough neighborhood.
MATTHEWS: No opportunities. Kids perhaps not disciplined enough, and
police officers think they can get away with anything, but also, scared to
death in some cases.
MATTHEWS: All these factors.
RYAN: You`re already presumed guilty.
ELLISON: You know, another factor too that has been overlooked is you have
a lot of police officers who were involved in these situations that don`t
live in those communities. And you have even a lot of state legislators.
I talked to legislators in places like Missouri, places like Ohio --
MATTHEWS: Do you think it`s that simple?
ELLISON: It`s not that simple. But it makes a big difference.
ELLISON: Not so much that they live there, but that they have some sort of
understanding of the socio-economic realities in those communities. Maybe
Eric Garner wouldn`t have died if those police officers had some basic
understanding of why he was selling loose cigarettes in the first place,
you know? You know, there is --
MATTHEWS: You`re being kind. He wasn`t a drug addict. He was doing it
for a living.
RYAN: He was trying to survive.
MATTHEWS: He was doing it for a living. But the chokehold was caught on
ELLISON: But you have these armed white cops primarily, and they`re coming
from the suburban counties. They`re coming from places where they don`t
live in the city. They don`t live within those communities. And so they
have a very confrontational dynamic or relationship with people that
they`re patrolling every day. That`s a problem.
MATTHEWS: Where did they learn that from? Where did they learn from that
MATTHEWS: They learn what they thought was respect on the spot. Yes.
RYAN: Presumed guilty a lot times because you come from that life of
survival by any means necessary. You know, yes, some of these people had
rap sheets eight feet long. Eric Garner was a big man, and I have a
brother. I`m the sister of a black man, a daughter of a black man.
I have a brother. I`m 5`5". My brother is 6`5". I don`t know where he
came from. But he is a gentle giant.
But I told my brother, if ever you get in that situation, they`re going to
try to take you down right away because you`re a black man who is tall.
And that`s the unfortunate thing.
MATTHEWS: Look at the other way, the white cop who goes in a neighborhood
they know what the crime rate, they know what the situation is and they
know there is crime in the area. And they got to establish in their hearts
an assumption of innocence. Every night they go out and patrol.
RYAN: It`s called community policing, knowing who these people are.
MATTHEWS: That`s a hell of a rigorous standard for a guy.
RYAN: But you know what? In Baltimore, they used to have community police
and it really worked. They knew the people in the community.
MATTHEWS: I think we`re in trouble in area there was community policing.
We`ll see. We`ll see. We thought we were going to find out on Friday what
was happening. We don`t know yet.
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: No, this is -- I just want to back up
April. If you`re in the community and people know you, that actually
begins to transcend race.
RYAN: It does.
DEAN: It really does. If you are known as a decent person who cares about
the kids. And what will happen is if a bad guy does cause trouble, the
community rallies around the cop.
RYAN: And there is that holistic approach.
MATTHEWS: The other idea, better than the guy in the foot than in the car.
DEAN: That`s absolutely right.
MATTHEWS: OK, let`s get back to Toure. He is on the streets right now
talking with people about their expectations of getting information this
Friday. Apparently, they`re not going to get it on the Freddie Gray death
and how it happened.
TOURE, THE CYCLE: Chris, I`ve been talking to people about your question
in the hour -- how are they going to feel when they don`t get a report on
TOURE: This is Mikhail Porter (ph). He grew up with the mayor in his
How are you going to feel on Friday if you don`t get some sort of
reckoning, some sort of accounting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel myself as well as the entire city will feel
quite disappointed, will feel quite let down. We know that we can find a
solution to this problem. Right now, we`re doing a peaceful protest.
Everyone is out here all together. There is lots of great energy. We know
something good can come of this. From Friday if we get nothing, well --
TOURE: You said you grew up with the mayor. Are you going to feel
disappointed in her if you don`t get something on Friday?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that the mayor is trying her best. I know she
is trying her hardest. I know this isn`t the easiest situation.
But guess what? Life is difficult. This is proven to be a difficult
situation over the past couple of weeks. Now it`s time to bite the bullet.
Now it`s time to find a great solution, something that will stick and
something that will be beneficial for everyone.
TOURE: Chris, you`re absolutely right. People are going to be very
disappointed if they don`t get something on Friday.
MATTHEWS: Well, Toure, thank you, sir, as well the gentleman with you.
Thank you, both.
We`re going to go back to Union Square. But, by the way, what we`re doing
right now is waiting for a press conference by the police. The people are
going to be right on target here in terms of giving us the information that
was promised to the people in the streets. They expect it. However, this
miscommunication occurred, it`s rampant.
In the media, people thought were going to get a report on Friday. I was
checking it again right before we went on the air tonight. I`ve never seen
something as cockeyed as this thing has become. Everybody was told Friday
we`re going to know what happened. Now you`re told we`re not going to know
We`re back with the panel. I think it`s going to be a problem for the
weekend. Luckily, it`s not 95 degrees out.
RYAN: It`s going to be a huge problem. I was there again on Penn and
North again this afternoon. And people were saying, I just can`t wait, I
want justice to be served. I can`t wait for the report on Friday.
What happens when you`re already here and you`re not that tall and you`re
waiting for something that is not going to happen? It`s a tinderbox in
ELLISON: The mayor and the police chief are going to have to figure out a
way to operationalize this. I mean, crisis management 101. Don`t
understand estimate the passions and the intellect and the intelligence of
your constituencies. And they have done that in a very miserable fashion.
But I get the feeling like there is this sort of -- I noticed in that
earlier press conference with the Baltimore commander where we`re going to
do the unique thing of passing this along to the state prosecutor. And I
feel like some of those optical tensions that we`ve been seeing between the
mayor, who is Democrat, and also the Republican Larry Hogan who is a
Republican, I think that internally, there is some sort of pass the buck
thing going on here. It`s playing out.
MATTHEWS: You can say that, but people are judged by how they behave in
crises. That`s just a fact.
DEAN: Let me just touch on this for a second, because you touched on
something that is a real problem. And it happens in all these cases. The
state`s attorney should not be investigating police misconduct in these
kind of situations. Why? Because they work with the police every day.
That`s their job. They bring cases together.
And Eric Schneiderman, the attorney general of New York, has a solution
that came out of the horrible case up there, the chokehold, the Eric Garner
case which is that in a situation where somebody dies in the hands of the
police that needs to be prosecuted by the attorney general or somebody who
does not have that personal day to day working relationship, because even
with the best state`s attorney in the country, the results are going to be
MATTHEWS: Yes. I`m sorry. Go ahead?
RYAN: Maryland State Senator Cathy Pugh just told me the transparency
needs to start with the Baltimore police department. So --
MATTHEWS: We`re going to continue to watch what is going on in New York.
You see these people, there is arrest going on in New York, in Union
Let`s bring in Rehema Ellis who is at Baltimore City Hall, because we have
two cities recovering tonight.
Rehema, thank you for coming on. We`re talking. All afternoon I kept
saying how can there be this disconnect between what people expect in the
streets and the row houses of West Baltimore and everywhere else in the
country of some big police report on that commission on what happened to
Freddie Gray this Friday. Now we`re told gradually and very
unsuccessfully, you`re not going to get a report publicized this Friday.
REHEMA ELLIS, NBC NEWS: Well, what I`m hearing, Chris, from people out
here who are gathered, I want you to get a sense of what the scene look
As you can see, you`ve got law enforcement authorities here behind the
bicycle grates. And my cameraman is going to turn a little bit. It`s not
a pretty shot, but we`re going to turn.
I`m going to show you, there are people who have gather heard in front of
city hall. And that is very, very peaceful. They`re out talking about,
remember Freddie Gray. Remember why we came out. Remember all the other
Freddie Grays, not just here in Baltimore, but throughout the country.
And so are they looking for answers? Yes, they are. Are they impatient?
Yes, they are. But these people are peaceful. I talked to people who came
here from Philadelphia, from other parts of the country.
And I hope you can see, but this is not just a black crowd. There are
white people, there are old people, young people. I should tell you there
are college students here. People have been giving out food, free pizza.
This crowd does not say that they want to go and riot if they don`t get the
information that they want. They are saying that they want information.
They`re standing here at city hall and demanding information. I know that
police are going to be ready because they tell us they are. You can see
behind me that they are.
But folks here tonight, Chris, are saying to me, don`t expect me to riot.
Don`t expect --
MATTHEWS: Got you.
ELLIS: But, they have to -- police have to be ready, as you know, because
there are some agitators who end up messing up what peaceful protesters are
trying to do.
MATTHEWS: Well said. Thank you so much, Rehema Ellis, out there at
Baltimore at city hall.
We`re now waiting for the news conference from Baltimore police. This is
going to be a hot news conference. It`s coming up here any minute now.
We`re also going to take a look at this extraordinary scene today at
Baltimore`s Camden Yards, one of the most baseball fields in the country,
empty today. Empty because they didn`t trust the people to come in and
have a reasonable time watching a ball game. This is pretty scary.
First time in the history of organized baseball since it began in the 19th
century they haven`t had a time where they played a game with nobody
allowed to watch. By the way, incidental news, the Os won 8-2.
And we`ll be right back after this.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
We`re watching right now, two different scenes in two cities -- two
different cities. On the left you see police in New York in Union Square.
They`ve been making arrests at a protests there in Union Square, arrests at
an occasion which is a combination of what happened with Garner and what`s
happened with Freddie Gray, both dead.
On the right, you see protesters in Baltimore. They`ve been taking to the
streets as peaceful marches near city hall. By the way, again, we`re
awaiting that news conference from the Baltimore police in just a few
minutes which everybody`s waiting for.
Let`s listen to that now. Here it is.
COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: -- officers in the head, hit
in the face. So when we talk about people just throwing rocks, and this is
one of the small ones that were coming at my officers that were out there.
I just want to share that because I think they`re extremely courageous and
I think they`ve been standing tall.
And I`d like to thank you guys, because I`ve been listening to the news, as
your commentators have reported that the organization has been very
professional. We`ve been very deliberate in what we`ve done and I think
organization as a whole, I agree with you guys, has done a good job. So,
thank you and I think the officers have been very courageous.
Today, we have had no officers injuries so far. We`ve had no major
incidents. We`ve had the large crowd that came down to city hall. I had
resources stationed in front of city hall. I`ve placed resources down in
our inner harbor all day.
I`ve shifted resources from state as well as National Guard, as well as
Baltimore Police Department in a multitude of multi-agencies up at the
Mondawmin Mall. We had a huge presence there opening up bus routes for
school. I`ve also placed resources at North and Pennsylvania.
We have no major incidents, no major events at this point. We`re getting
ready for curfew. I`ve directed automatic resources to start paying
attention. That curfew is going into effect within less than two hours.
I believe now the governor and the mayor are getting ready for a full
briefing that most likely will take place about 8:30. So we`re preparing
for that. Other than that, we have had 16 adult arrests throughout the day
and two juveniles. I can`t tell you what the 16 arrests are for.
Is there any questions I can answer?
REPORTER: I have a question, Commissioner. Just so we`re clear, because
I`ve heard a lot of people talking about information that will or won`t be
turned over on Friday. Just so the public has a clear expectation, what
can they expect to know about the Freddie Gray investigation and that
report that`s being --
BATTS: Much like I said last Friday, when we did the news conference, what
we`re going to be turning over is pre-investigative work that we have
placed -- put together, the same thing that we shared. We will be turning
that over to the state`s attorney.
No actions -- if you`re anticipating actions, the action will be turning
the investigation over the state`s attorney. And from there, they will
take the ball.
REPORTER: So, you won`t turn over any -- you won`t be releasing any
information to the public on Friday?
BATTS: We will be turning over all information to the state`s attorney.
They then take the lead.
REPORTER: What about the public? So, no information will be coming from
the police department regarding this investigation to the public? Because
you`ve said in the past -- you said last week that --
BATTS: I said last week what we`ll be doing is turning over information
much like I`m saying tonight to the state`s attorney and then they take the
lead from that point.
Also what I said is we can`t put out too much information that may
jeopardize the case itself, if anyone needs to be prosecuted. So we`re
limiting what information that goes out there for the purpose of
prosecution if that`s an issue.
REPORTER: The public defender`s office says that over 100 people who have
been arrested are being released without any charges. Can you tell us what
happened there? Was it something that just couldn`t process them in time,
in 48 hours? What time?
BATTS: We`ve come up on a time line. We are still releasing them with
future prosecution in mind.
REPORTER: Commissioner, (INAUDIBLE)
BATTS: One more time.
REPORTER: Are there any spots in the city tonight as we approach curfew
that concern you like last night?
BATTS: I was pleased with what took place in the city last night. For the
most part, I think the curfew looked pretty well, much like the mayor
predicted. We got people off the street. There wasn`t a lot moving. Much
like will happen now.
Much like this large protest, extremely peaceful, but people are going home
in enough time before curfew, which is about two hours out.
So, right now, I think we`ll be OK. I anticipate no major issue. I`ve
placed resources in multiple places around the city to anticipate any
issues, but I don`t think there`s going to be.
BATTS: One more time. I can`t hear you.
BATTS: We had a device that looks like it was a homemade device. It was
inert. We found it on I believe it was North and Pennsylvania. And we
have to pay attention not only to rocks. We have to pay attention to
bottles, inert devices, too, at this point in time. It`s nothing over-
alarming for us but we make sure officers are paying attention.
REPORTER: There`s a photo of you on Twitter grabbing or attacking a
person. Can you just tell us what was happening there?
BATTS: Up at the Mondawmin Mall, as officers were taking rocks prior to
them advancing across the street, I saw probably about four or five or six
young people picking up rock, throwing them at officers as a whole. I went
over to apprehend one or two of them and the picture that you see the one
of them that I was grabbing as I was trying to grab the second one.
BATTS: We had officer -- I believe a female officer with an injury to the
leg and everybody has been released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have time for two more questions.
BATTS: I`m sorry? How was it injured? Flying rocks. Kind of like that
rock that I showed you. They were coming and taking rocks.
REPORTER: Can you provide any more details on these 101 people that were
released? Do you expect some of them, most, all to be charged?
BATTS: We`re not giving up on them. We`re just going to follow up. I
think the system right now is trying to catch up.
But Eric Kowalczyk will give you further information if you need it. I
have to meet with the governor and the mayor.
REPORTER: Thank you, sir.
MATTHEWS: You just heard there our worst conclusion has come to through,
come to pass here. Apparently, the police are will not issue any
information in this Friday at all. The city of Baltimore has been
expecting there will be no report from the police commissioner to the
public. Nothing for the people in the row houses and the streets of
Baltimore to know what will happen in this case.
So, it`s going to be a very frustrating weekend I think for the people of
That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being with us.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES", of course, starts right now right live from
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