The Ed Show for Friday, May 1st, 2015
Read the transcript to the Friday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: May 1, 2015
Guest: Daryl Parks, Catherine Pugh, Joe Madison, Michael Steele, Chris Van
ED SCHULTZ, "THE ED SHOW" HOST: Good evening Americans Welcome to the Ed
Show live from Washington, D.C. We are awaiting a press conference just
moments away from Freddie Gray`s family. This comes after we got details
today in Gray`s death. Six Baltimore police officers are facing various
charges, including second-degree murder and illegally arresting Mr. Gray.
Earlier today, State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby gave all the details in a
blockbuster news conference. She named name and laid out the charges.
The press conference is starting right now. We`ll go right to it live in
This is the Gray family responding to the charges that have been brought
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon. First, we will hear from the
representative of the Gray family who has brief remarks to make. Then I`ll
make brief remarks. And then we`ll take a handful of questions.
RICHARD SHIPLEY, FREDDIE GRAY`S STEPFATHER: My name is Richard. I`m one
of Freddie`s two fathers. We are satisfied with today`s charges. These
charges are an important step in getting justice for Freddie. And we ask
that whoever come to our city, a city that we love, a city that we live in,
come in peace. And if you are not coming in peace, please don`t come at
all, because this city needs to get back to work. The last thing that
Freddie would want is to see the hard-working people of Baltimore lose
their jobs and businesses because of his death.
You all know that would totally defeat the purpose of what we are trying to
work towards. Remember, without justice there is no peace. But let us
have peace in the pursuit of justice. Thank you.
WILLIAM MURPHY JR., GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Today is a momentous step on the
road to justice for Freddie. In losing Freddie, the gray family has been
put through real hell. One can only imagine the tremendous pain and
suffering that this family has endured. For the parents, loss of a son and
the sister`s loss of a brother.
Freddie was taken too early and too horrifically. And the worst of the
Grays` family days, in the history of this family, have been the last three
weeks. Today has given the Gray family a measure of hope. We thank the
state`s attorney and her team for their unprecedented courage and their
measured and professional response to this crisis. They have our gratitude
in their pursuit of justice.
However, we must be mindful that this is a first step, not the last. But
why the state`s attorney`s office continues to do its work, the community,
this community, and other communities like it all over the country have
much work to do of their own.
The overwhelming number of people who have protested over these many days
did not know Freddie personally, but they and the people of Philadelphia,
New York, Cincinnati and numerous other cities, numerous other towns, and
numerous rural areas, are expressing their outrage that there are too many
Freddie Grays. And if Freddie Gray is not to die in vain, we must seize
this opportunity to reform police departments throughout this country, so
that there are no more days and times like this.
It is now time for every city, including our own, to make all citizens of
this country treated with human dignity, unaffected by color, religion,
gender, income, or of the other irrelevant differences that wrongly exclude
them from the human family. Let us make this the overarching meaning of
justice for Freddie.
Freddie`s family is gratified that the ministers, elected officials and
others have stepped into the streets to counsel peace. But the family is
especially gratified that the young people of America are showing us the
way. They are firm, strong and bound together in a mission for change.
Young people have friends, classmates, relatives, spouses, and coworkers
from all races, all colors, all sexual orientations, all religions, and all
incomes, who have enabled them to see with unmistakable and unprecedented
clarity that we are all members of one race, the human race.
With every ounce of their being, they expressed this universal desire for
one country, one people. And they will fight peacefully until that goal is
realized. But with all these unprecedented experiences comes enormous
responsibility, because most of us have never been in a place like this
Our young people must show us the way thoughtfully, creatively, and
peacefully. As three of the greatest leaders in recent history, Gandhi,
Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela have taught us, the only lasting
response to evil is love.
Freddie Gray`s family thanks you for the love you have shown them. Now,
let us all show them the fruits of that love, real and lasting progress.
The lasting changes we make will be Freddie`s legacy. And the changes we
make in Baltimore can set the example for this nation.
We can start with body cameras. We can continue with tough and enforceable
regulations for the on switch, never to be turned to the off switch
inappropriately. We shall demand better hiring, better training, better
oversight and a new culture of policing. Yes, a new culture of policing.
Where good policing is rewarded and bad policing is punished, where bad
policemen fear committing misconduct because good policemen no longer fear
preventing it, correcting it, reporting it or prosecuting it.
The blue wall of silence which makes policemen wrongfully conspire to
conceal evil, must come down.
In the days ahead, we will be inviting police experts, community leaders,
rank and file officers, and others who have seriously studied what must be
done, to join us in what we hope will be a new Baltimore, to create and
implement these reforms so that they will be a model for the nation. We
must seize this moment.
Only, this kind of lasting progress, a truly lasting progress, a permanent
lasting progress can assure Freddie Gray`s family and the rest of us that
Freddie`s death was not in vain. Let us pray for Freddie`s family and let
us pray that God will guide us to do his will, or her will, in the pursuit
of justice, so that this country will truly be and surely be a place where
everyone, regardless of the color, or whatever difference maybe
superficially apparent, can get liberty and justice for all.
Thank you very much. And we`ll take your questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your reaction (inaudible)?
MURPHY: Man, you`re fast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the reaction to the order of policing that
officers are not responsible?
MURPHY: Well, you know, that`s a premature statement, obviously. If they
too are interested in a full, thorough and fair investigation and to follow
the fact where is they lead us, they won`t say stuff like that. We haven`t
said stuff like that. We haven`t said we believe...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You`re watching a family press conference. That is the family
attorney for the Gray family, Billy Murphy answering just a couple of
questions. He did call for body cameras with a regulated on switch, a
better hiring and training procedure for the Baltimore police, and starting
new culture of policing in the city.
Previously to the press conference, the step dad, Richard Shipley, said
that the family is satisfied with the charges. We`ll continue our
Earlier today, State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby gave all the details in a
blockbuster news conference of those who were arrested. She named names
and laid out the charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE`S ATTORNEY: Well, each of these
officers are presumed innocent until proven guilty, we are brought the
following charges. Officer Caesar Goodson is being charged with second-
degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second degree
negligent assault, manslaughter by vehicle by means of gross negligence,
manslaughter by vehicle by means of criminal negligence, misconduct in
office for failure to secure a prisoner, failure to render aid.
Officer William Porter is being charged with involuntary manslaughter,
assault in the second degree, misconduct in office.
Lieutenant Brian Rice is being charged with involuntary manslaughter,
assault in the second-degree, misconduct in office, false imprisonment.
Officer Edward Nero is being charged with assault in the second degree
intentional, assault in the second-degree negligent, misconduct in office,
Officer Garrett Miller is being charged with intentional assault in the
second-degree, assault in the second-degree negligent, misconduct in office
and false imprisonment.
Sergeant Alicia White is being charged with manslaughter, involuntary
manslaughter, second degree assault, misconduct in office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: That was State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby announcing the charges
earlier today. And of course, the Associated Press is now reporting that
all six officers have been taken into custody.
Moments ago, the Baltimore Police Union responded to the charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL DAVEY, BALTIMORE POLICE UNION ATTORNEY: I have never seen such a
hurried rush to file criminal charges, which I believe are driven by forces
which are separate and apart from the application of law and the facts of
this case as we know them.
No one condones police misconduct. This is especially true of the entire
FOP membership, including my client, who was a 17-year veteran of this
department, who has dedicated his life to serving the public.
Let me state in no uncertain terms that Lieutenant Rice and all of the
officers involved at all times acted reasonably and in accordance with
their training as Baltimore Police Officers.
No officer injured Mr. Gray, caused harm to Mr. Gray and they are truly
saddened by his death. These officer did nothing wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The police union is calling for State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby to
appoint a special prosecutor. Tonight, people are gathering in the streets
all across America. We`ll be monitoring the protests and marches
throughout the hour.
Let`s go live now to Baltimore, Craig Melvin, MSNBC Anchor and Reporter,
and also with us tonight, Joy Reid, MSNBC National Correspondent.
Craig, you first. The family says that they are satisfied with the
charges. They had a real message of nonviolence. What is the reaction of
the crowd in the wake of these officers being charged today?
CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Ed, first of all. Ed, let me
take you inside this crowd behind me. This was a crowd of roughly 300.
They are dispersing from here in front of city hall. They`re -- moving out
again now. I`m not exactly sure where they`re marching to now.
But I had the opportunity to talk to a number of the folks in this crowd,
two things. First of all, a lot of folks are very upset about the curfew
that continues to remain in place here in Baltimore. Of course, as you
know, 10:00 P.M. until 5:00 A.M. they have said that that is going to be
the case, at least -- through Sunday.
A lot of the folks who are marching here are very upset about that. The
folks that I talk to also in this crowd, in terms of the charges that were
presented today, they seem pleased. And they also seem pleasantly
surprised as well. A number of folks said, they did not expect the special
prosecutor -- excuse me, they did not expect the state`s attorney to come
out today, and not just talk about the charges but to really sort of lay
out the case to a certain extent against the officers as well.
One gentleman said that`s the kind of -- that was the kind of insight that
they were looking for a couple of days ago. Ed, there`s something else
that worth noting here.
Few weeks ago, we`re in North Charleston, the Walter Scott case, that was -
- the situation again caught on camera. Local officials reacted fairly
quickly. This is another instance where a lot of folks are saying that by
enlarge, the local officials here acted quicker than they have in years
past with similar situations, Ed.
SCHULTZ: OK. Craig Melvin in Baltimore, reporting for us tonight.
Let`s go now to Joy Reid who is also on the scene. Joy, there is some
ominous news with this, the charges of these six officers. And the State`s
Attorney Marilyn Mosby saying that there was no reason for the stop, and it
was an illegal arrest. What`s the response on the ground to this news?
JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, absolutely. People,
as Craig said, were pleasantly surprised by these charges. I think that
one of the big problems that the officers had in their story. And we talk
about this being a very quick resolution in a case where we were told by
city officials not to expect Friday to be a big day, but what a big day it
turns out to be.
Well, if you go back and look at the charging documents that were going to
be filed, and the case that was going to be filed against Freddie Gray, all
the charge that he was being charged with, the statute he was charged with
breaking was possession of a switchblade, possession of a knife with a
Marilyn Mosby, the prosecutor today saying the knife that they took out of
the inside pants pocket of Freddie Gray was not a spring-loaded knife, it
was not a switchblade. So if the knife is not a switchblade, that means he
committed no crime. And if he committed no crime then there was no
probable cause for the stop.
I think the fact that the underlying case against Freddie Gray had he lived
has completely seem to fall apart. I think the second issue is that in the
narrative, in the charging documents, they didn`t mention any of the stops.
It was said that he was placed without incident into the van and then he
was taken to the precinct at some point had some sort of medical emergency.
I think you heard the prosecutor laid that case out very specifically.
Lots of support not just for Marilyn Mosby, but for Nick Mosby, her husband
who was just walking around through this crowd just a little while ago and
getting high fives and hugs from people.
We spoke earlier with some members of the community who work in community
development here, who talked about how both of the Mosbys are very involved
in the community, very well-known to this West Baltimore community. Not
just as people who are public servants now, but going back for many years
were doing things like "Friday Night Peace Walks". There`s a lot of drug
crime and a lot of general crime in this area. They were two people who
were great advocates for the people who live here, who are residents here
and who are going to still be here after all of that, and all of this sort
of circus of media has gone home. Ed.
SCHULTZ: All right. Joy Reid reporting tonight from Baltimore. Thanks,
Let me bring in Daryl Parks, attorney for, and partner, in Parks & Crump.
He was currently represents the family of Michael Brown.
Mr. Parks, interesting development here and the state`s attorney very
aggressively coming out with charges today. Some say it was early and
unexpected, and of course, the reaction from the police union is that they
want a special prosecutor. Why all officers involve charge, what`s your
take on that?
DARYL PARKS, PARKS & CRUMP LLC: Well, I think when you think about, one,
the fact that Freddie Gray had not committed a crime whatsoever and I think
the prosecutor emphasized the fact that there was no probable cause for a
crime. But also, two, I think she was very appalled by the reckless
disregard they had for his condition and failed to come to his aid,
although they had multiple chances to do it didn`t help him.
Those facts alone set off a very eerie death that he suffered over that
time period. And when they finally call for help for him, it was too late.
And so, I think that given all the facts and (what she saw) and laid out
the timeline (ph), you said, then she went through all the facts, Ed, she
went through all of the things that they could have done and did not do.
PARKS: Each one of them -- she was very offended in found that there was
at least probable cause to charge them.
SCHULTZ: Well, it certainly looks as if she has the mindset behind the
charges that negligence led to the result of the death of Freddie Gray.
Your reaction to the prosecution having a solid case at this point from
what you know.
PARKS: Well, I think it`s hard to say. I think if you listen to her
words, she said at least there was probable cause. And so I think that he
difference that you see here in this case, Ed, is that, she decided to make
her decision based on probable cause, unlike some prosecutors we have seen
in this country who have made the decision based on whether or not they
could get a conviction.
PARKS: So there may be a difference there, but we`ll see as time goes on.
SCHULTZ: And what kind of uphill battle legally do you think these
officers are facing?
PARLS: Well, they`re certainly facing an uphill battle. Number one, this
case will have to be tried in Baltimore City, tough jury there. We`ve seen
different jury pools around the country of maybe what have done, you know,
may seen this a little different. But given where they are, it`s a tough
venue. But also the officers...
SCHULTZ: Well, isn`t the toughness of that, Mr. Parks, I got to ask you.
Isn`t the toughness of that them justifying an illegal arrest? I mean,
that`s really what is going to come down to. If he had not been arrested,
he`d still be alive today.
PARKS: He really would. He really would but also we don`t know what
they`re going to say about the neighborhood and other things that may have
been going on in the general area. Even though it was 8:00 in the morning,
we don`t know what they`re going to say in terms of what was going on in
that general area. So there are some factor we`ll learn once we get into
the litigation aspect of this case.
SCHULTZ: All right. Daryl Parks, good to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time. Thank you so much for that.
I want to bring in now State Senator Catherine Pugh is with us as well.
Senator, your response to the charges today and the family saying that they
are satisfied with the charges.
STATE SENATOR CATHERINE PUGH, (D) MARYLAND: Well, I think I`m satisfied
with the charges as you can well see with the celebration that`s going on
behind me. The people of Baltimore certainly satisfied with the charges.
And I think what`s you still going to see is continuous, peaceful
demonstrations, not just hear, but in cities across the country.
Unfortunately, what Mr. Gray will represent for America is the issue of
police profiling and the injustices that have occurred to so many across
this country in the hands of police. And that certainly is not to say that
most of our police know what to do when they come into our communities that
we pay to serve.
PUGH: But again, we find situations like this.
SCHULTZ: Catherine, what`s your reaction to the state attorney saying that
he should have never been stopped, never been arrested, never put in
PUGH: Well, I think that`s the question that most of us raise from the
very beginning. Because this is a man walking around in his own
neighborhood and he should not have been profiled.
And so, what is happening in cities across this country, people really
become very fearful of the police. And so when he ran and he was -- they
caught up with him, and then they went through his pockets and claimed that
he had a weapon that was illegal. I mean, this man was frightened to
death. And we heard the screams, we heard him crying for help, we heard
him asking for medication. And to not have even gotten that service, I was
really pained by what I saw, what I heard from the state`s attorney, and
more importantly, what this man must have gone through. So I can`t imagine
what his family is feeling today, but I`m grateful that we finally got at
least from our state`s attorney some information that allows us to believe
that justice will be served and we`ll move forward in this.
SCHULTZ: OK. The family attorney, Billy Murphy, stepped to the microphone
just 15 minutes ago and said that they are pushing for change when it comes
to body cameras that would have a legislated on switch, as to when it would
be on and off. Also the hiring and training of personnel in the Baltimore
Police Department, they also want a new culture of policing in the city.
It`s very clear that the Gray family is using the tragedy that happened to
their family as an opportunity to push some change and to push for change
and for reform. Is this going to happen...
PUGH: And it could be.
SCHULTZ: Is this going to happen?
PUGH: Oh, look, that is as it should be. When we force for example
Baltimore has already been given the permission by the state to continue to
move forward with its body camera law. And so, we need to make sure that
that moves very quickly. And when we go back to Annapolis in January, one
of the issues that we`re going to be grappling with is should police, in
fact, be systematically given psychological evaluations to see if they
still have the propensity to do the job that they suppose to do in our
neighborhoods without profiling people who walk, live and earn their lives
in our neighborhoods.
We don`t want to ever see what happened to Freddie Gray, happen to any
other individual, not just in Baltimore but in Philadelphia, in New York
and in any other city across this country. So yes, I believe change will
SCHULTZ: OK. Thank you, Senator Pugh. I appreciate your time. The A.P.
reporting that all six officers are currently in custody, and of course, we
will continue our coverage here on MSNBC.
You can follow us on Facebook and watch my Facebook feature "Give Me a
Minute" and you can get my video podcast at wegoted.com.
Coming up, we`ll have more reaction from the Baltimore community to charges
filed against the officers in the death of Freddie Gray.
Stay with us. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show from Washington, D.C.
Baltimore residents are pouring into the street at this hour after Maryland
ruled Freddie Gray`s death a homicide.
Joining me live now in Baltimore is Ron Allen, reporting for NBC News.
Ron, what are you hearing from the community? This is a huge legal move
today to arrest and charge six officers. What`s the response on the
ground? What are you hearing?
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS REPORTER: Well, Ed, I think it`s relief, I think it`s
surprise. I don`t think most people ever thought this would happen because
these things tend not to happen. Police officers tend not to get arrested
and certainly not charged with murder as was the case, one of the officers.
I think people are surprised how swiftly this happened. In this case, this
man died in police custody just a couple of weeks ago. And we`re so used
to these cases dragging on for weeks and weeks, if not months and months,
or longer, and so all of that is just very stunning.
I think you also hear a lot of other grievances coming forward. A lot of
people now feel like their voice might be heard. And certainly some of
those cases are probably not legitimate, but I imagine that some of them
are, so you`re hearing that as well.
And I think you`re also hearing a lot of people who, you know, there`s a
lot of hyperbole and excitement on how this is historic and how it`s a
profound moment. But I think there are other people who are also being
more realistic about this. And while this one case is going to be
prosecuted, there are many others that won`t be, people are saying.
But it`s a moment, it`s a moment that people are going to focus on, try to
seize on the reformers in the community are certainly going to try to take
advantage of this, to try to push practical, tough reforms for police
departments, not just here but in other departments across the country.
You hear the police departments pushing back as well. The union here
saying these offices did nothing wrong. You know, policing is a very, very
difficult job, you know. And that`s something that`s -- it`s quite a
balance that has to be struck.
But something changed here. I hear so many people say that it feels like
something really happened here today that`s different. And may never be
the same going, you know, going forward because these officers are going to
be held accountable to some extent. They`re innocent until proven guilty
but there`s going to be a process. And I think most people you talk to
here just are surprised that this ever happened. They`re just not used to
seeing the sort of justice move forward in this kind of community. Ed.
SCHULTZ: Well, this is also a signal to the community that their protests
from a legal perspective have been successful. And I think that message
seems to be conveyed by the Freddie Gray family us that Richard Shipley who
was the step dad of Freddie Gray stepped out and said it`s got to be
nonviolent. We bear the responsibility to go down and what we`re trying to
achieve with nonviolent protests and marches.
The next 24 hours I think, I mean, you say the word surprised, that people
are surprised, but they also have to feel some sort of gratification that
the city is moving forward. Do you hear any of that?
ALLEN: Oh, there`s a lot of vindication, there`s a lot of feeling of -- I
say surprised is actually shocked, I think that most people feel. This is
a huge, emotional thing that`s happened here. And I think people are
shocked, and I think they feel very vindicated because this is the kind of
thing that people have been complaining about for many, many years for
generations here I say. Not just here in Baltimore but in so many other
places. And I don`t think that this is necessarily a response to the
Yes, the protest certainly put this on the agenda to some extent, but you
have a prosecutor here who I think would argue that she looked at this
case, and the facts of the case. I would think that she would argue that
she`s not persuaded by the passion of the community, she`s persuaded by the
facts that she saw through a professional investigation.
ALLEN: ... is the reason why she`s bringing this, because I don`t think
she would say that this is mob rule or this is the, you know, this is the
community demanding this. That she`s responding to the community, she`s
working for the community, but she`s following the facts what I think she
would say, Ed.
SCHULTZ: All right. Ron Allen on the ground in Baltimore, and you`re
looking live at the marches and protests of the people who are out in the
streets expressing their views in the city of Baltimore.
I want to bring in Michael Steele, former RNC Chair, and Lieutenant
Governor of Maryland also with us tonight is Joe Madison, SiriusXM talk
show host who with his listeners clearly have a pulse on the community of
And Joe, there`s no doubt that there`s been a lot of reaction on your show
in recent days. Now, you haven`t done a show since these charges were
brought this afternoon. What do you think the reaction is going to be?
What do you anticipate? What have you heard?
JOE MADISON, SIRIUSXM TALK SHOW HOST: Well, what I`ve heard is that you
have relief. We anticipated -- and I had said on the show earlier that if
there was anything short of what this prosecutor came up with, the leaders
in that community -- and I don`t care if it was Elijah Cummings or the
Mayor or the ministers, they were going to have a tough time keeping the
lid on. That is what I heard.
So what you have here now are people who have, as you said, they feel
they`ve been vindicated, and I agree with Ron. I don`t think this
prosecutor was influenced at all by the protesters because she kept her
head down. We didn`t know anything about her. She`s only been in office a
SCHULTZ: Four months.
MADISON: A few months, most people didn`t even know what she looked like.
And the great thing was -- is the way -- you know, Ed, here`s what she
apparently did. She threw everything at them but the kitchen sink.
SCHULTZ: Well, people so far can say that Freddie Gray should never been
MADISON: That`s right.
SCHULTZ: Should have never been apprehended. I mean...
MADISON: So there`s relief at least initial.
SCHULTZ: So she`s making a legal statement there with the charges that
really have to be the basis of the case. I would think the police are
going to have to comeback, whether they got representation or not, it`s
going to be why did you stop the kid...
SCHULTZ: ... and why did you treat him like this and what happened and why
are there discrepancies?
Elijah Cummings is saying this is a new day for our city. Mr. Steele, your
thoughts on that?
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER RNC CHAIR: I like the words. Now, let`s see the
You know, when I served as lieutenant governor, our administration, the
(inaudible) administration working with city leaders and others in the
community tried to put some things in place. And there always seems to be
a roadblock, there`s always a reason not to move forward, there`s always an
excuse not to get it done.
If Elijah, the Mayor and others are serious about actually taking Baltimore
to the next level and returning some of that glory that it once had, that
the people know it was there, and we saw a little bit of that this week in
how the community came together. Then I began to see and a lot of people
will begin to believe that this is a step forward.
SCHULTZ: OK, a step forward. Had it not been for Marilyn Mosby`s actions
today, maybe in previous administrations, maybe this wouldn`t have
happened? What about that?
STEELE: You know, that`s a good point. I don`t know. I don`t know how
the previous state`s attorney would have handled the speed with which it
would have gotten done. But certainly the new state`s attorney, Ms. Mosby,
bringing a new kind of energy that I think is reflective of where the city
wants to go. I think it`s an honest, being an honest broker on behalf of
the people to make sure that justice, however it is done, it is done fair.
MADISON: Well, you can also call, you know, I know they`re calling for a
special prosecutor, here would be my line. And that is she is a special
prosecutor with a small s.
SCHULTZ: Well, what`s the responsibility of the community now? Now, that
this -- this has never happened before...
SCHULTZ: ... if this is a new day, if you got community leaders and
elected officials saying that this is different for Baltimore, what`s the
responsible of the community in response to all of this?
STELE: I think the responsibility is to take control of your city, take
control of your community, no longer make excuses and rely exclusively on
public officials, on elected officials, because they are the ones, quite
honestly, who let you down. They are the ones who allowed this to fester
and grow to the extent that it has.
You know, I love seeing politicians get in front of the bank with
microphones and start talking about what we`re going to do, but it never
MADISON: Can I add to what Michael said? And what we`ve seen and I`ve
been very critical of two politicians in particular. The governor, he
walks down the street that was part of this riot that took place. He walks
down that neighborhood without the Mayor. He walks down that neighborhood
without the city council that represents the district.
This is where, I think we agree on this, this is where a Democratic Mayor,
a Republican Governor needs to come together.
I`m from the old school. I grew up in -- with Coleman Young and Milliken
who was a Republican by the way, not this kind of Republican we have today.
But William Milliken used to say as Detroit goes, so goes the state of
Michigan. As Baltimore goes, so goes the state of Maryland in a big way.
That`s why you had this type of concern and influence.
If it`s a new day, then you need the Republican Governor, who`s got to put
together a budget, who`s got to work with the governor, I mean, the mayor,
and you`ve got a mayor...
MADISON: ... who has to work with the governor.
SCHULTZ: All right.
MADISON: And they need to be seen together.
SCHULTZ: Joe Madison, Michael Steele, gentlemen, thanks for your time
tonight and I appreciate it so much.
Still to come, the president weighs in on the latest developments out of
Stay with us. You`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show, coming to you live from Washington,
We`re monitoring marches happening all across the country.
Earlier today, President Obama asked for the demonstrations to remain
peaceful and calm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I`m gratified that we`ve
seen the constructive, thoughtful protests that have been taking place
peaceful, but clear calls for accountability that those have been managed
over the last couple of days in a way that`s ultimately positive for
Baltimore and positive for the country. And I hope that approach to
nonviolent protests and community engagement continues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland joins me tonight.
Congressman, the White House making a big effort talking to high profile
athletes, to talk to kids in communities across the country, is this a big
step forward? How do you see this? This is your state.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) MARYLAND: Well, that`s right. And first, I
want to commend State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby for acting quickly and
deliberately to seek justice in this case. For Freddie Gray and his
family, but as you said, really for all Marylanders.
And now, we also need to begin a conversation and more importantly urgent
action to begin to address some of the underlying systemic issues that led
to the tragedy in Baltimore and tragedies we`ve seen around the country. I
think the president has begun to speak about that important conversation
need for action.
I just got off a conference call with the head of the Congressional Black
Caucus as well as Barbara Lee who serves with me on the Budget Committee.
To talk about how we really need now to roll up our sleeves and attack this
issue of poverty, rather than this failed war on drugs, which has led to so
many people being locked up for nonviolent drug offenses.
SCHULTZ: Some of the systemic problems you`re talking about, is it police
culture? I mean, I think one of the biggest pieces of information today is
Marilyn Mosby saying he should have never been stopped, should have never
been arrested, should have never been, you know, put in custody. I mean,
doesn`t that speak to the police operations, that they`re heavy handed and
how do you reel that in from your perspective?
HOLLEN: Well, look, there`s no doubt that you need a restructuring of the
relationship between police in many places around the country and the
communities that they`re sworn to serve there.
Even before this awful situation with Freddie Gray, there`s been an ongoing
U.S. Justice Department investigation into brutal police tactics in
Baltimore City. So absolutely, we need the body cameras, we need to make
sure we have the truth in this case and in these cases, and other reforms.
But I`m speaking about deeper changes that we need to be made in terms of
attacking poverty and ending this failed war on drugs.
SCHULTZ: Well, this town is tight with the dollar unless you`re talking
about the defense budget.
SCHULTZ: I mean, we`re talking in an era where there`s not a whole lot of
money or anything, OK, especially when it comes to rebuilding inner cities.
This is an inner city issue, an inner city problem that has not gotten the
proper resources in funding. Isn`t that the congressional discussion?
HOLLEN: That is exactly right. And we just wrapped up debate on the
Republican budget conference report yesterday. And making the point that
we need to put resources into creating more job opportunities in these
areas of chronic unemployment, providing for more opportunity, beginning an
You`ve got a budget that are colleagues put forward, that actually makes it
harder for working people. They scaled back the child tax credit, at the
same time that they`re providing the tax break on the states, over $10
million, something you`ve talked about.
So it`s exactly backwards in terms of the budget being proposed here. We
need to attack this with a real urgency.
SCHULTZ: OK. I want to ask you on a federal level, all right? Richard
Shipley, the step dad, came out previously in this hour in a press
conference and said that the family is happy with the charges, but he put a
big emphasis on nonviolence. But then he went so far as to say this is
what we need and he named a couple things. One of them body cameras and
that was the attorney Billy Murphy who said that.
What`s going to push this discussion forward on a federal level when it
comes to body cameras, or do you view that as a state issue and a community
issue? And how would -- is that something that you would fund?
HOLLEN: Yes. And I`d see this as a city issue, a state issue, and a
SCHULTZ: So the decision should be made in a building you work in about
whether we`re going to do body cameras?
HOLLEN: What we proposed and there`s legislation that I support to do this
is that, the federal government will provide resources to these communities
as an incentive for them to move forward. In other words, we want to say
yes, you should be moving forward with these body cameras so that we always
get the truth, and we will provide resources available to you.
In the city of Baltimore, they passed legislation to create a pilot
program. I think that they should expand that very quickly in the city of
Baltimore. But absolutely, this is one piece of the reforms that need to
take place in terms of the criminal justice system.
Beyond that, again, we got to get away from this policy of locking people
up for nonviolent drug offenses, rather than treating it as a health issue.
As you know, on college campuses, when kids get busted for drugs, they
don`t end up in jail. They usually end up getting help in terms of the
health care, mental health, substance abuse.
SCHULTZ: Not the case in the inner city.
HOLLEN: ... whereas in places like Baltimore, it`s the opposite. You get
SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman Chris Van Hollen, good to have you with us on
the Ed Show tonight.
HOLLEN: Good to be with you.
SCHULTZ: Thank you so much.
We`ll have more from Baltimore after this.
Stay with us right here on MSNBC.
SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show. And I`m joined tonight by
Investigative Reporter Jayne Miller of NBC affiliate WBAL whose report and
interview with the prisoner who was also in the van with Freddie Gray
really did a big part of breaking this story wide open.
Jayne, your response now to the statement today by the state`s attorney,
what are you hearing about the stop should never have been made?
JAYNE MILLER, WBAL INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Ed, I said that that was
really the most startling, almost startling charge in this case, is that
two of those officers, the two officers that were involved in the initial
arrest of Freddie Gray on the morning of April 12th, they have been charged
with false imprisonment. Why? Because in the view of the state`s attorney
that little knife that they picked off of Freddie Gray that ended up being
the charge against him, they say that that knife was, in fact, lawful to
possess, not unlawful to possess. And therefore, in the view of the
state`s attorney the arrest was illegal so those two officers have been
charged with false imprisonment amongst some misconduct, et cetera, et
I have said that that is a legal shot across the bow on this whole issue of
the -- of arrests for these minor crimes, of questionable arrests, for
where`s the probable cause? I mean, that`s a very interesting element of a
very serious case.
I mean, we`ve got, you know, a police officer charged with second-degree
depraved-heart murder, we`ve involuntary manslaughter charges but that`s
one of the most fascinating elements of this case are those particular two
SCHULTZ: I totally agree with you because they are going to have to
justify their actions and do it legally. And we`re also hearing tonight,
Jayne Miller, that Baltimore police are now going to be traveling in pairs.
How big a change is this for the city you think, as far as police
MILLER: I don`t know much different about that. I`ve actually seen them
over the past week because of all the unrest there in like threes. And the
police, you know, I think, if you`re talking about, you know, patrol, et
cetera, et cetera, I mean they are kind of accustomed to traveling in pairs
Now, that could be -- I don`t know if that`s related to the ongoing
protest, et cetera, or if that`s going to become a more permanent policy.
Everybody in the community hopes that at the end of the day this case leads
to really substantial changes in policy.
SCHULTZ: OK. Investigative reporter for WBAL, Jayne Miller with us
tonight whose reporting has been nothing but spot on. Thank you, Jayne,
appreciate it tonight.
We`ll have another update from our reporters on the ground right after this
on the Ed Show, stay with us.
SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show, our continuing coverage here on
Let me bring in for the latest on the ground in Baltimore, Toure, the co-
host of MSNBC`s "The Cycle" and also with us tonight here Joy Reid, MSNBC
Well, previously we heard Ron Allen them say that the community was shocked
and certainly surprised of these charges have come forward and especially
the fact that the state`s attorney said that he should have never been
stopped, Freddie Gray. What are both of you hearing on the ground? Toure,
TOURE, "THE CYCLE" CO-HOST: Well, we`re at the corner of North and Penn
near the CVS that got burned out. It`s a fairly jubilant scene here right
now so I think a lot of people are feeling happy. Some people have told me
that they were shocked that these charges came down. But some people told
me that they weren`t shocked because in Baltimore, the leadership, the
political leadership, is so black that they are not surprised that things
went down this way. What have you heard, Joy?
REID: Well, you know, first of all, a lot of confidence in Prosecutor
Mosby and her husband Nick Mosby who is the city council person
representing this district. I think the people have a lot of faith in
I`ve heard basically a lot of the same thing that you`ve heard, Toure.
People either saying they were completely surprised that there were
charges, or that they thought charges would come but that they were still
surprised at the timing that it would happen today.
City officials have been pulling people back from thinking today was an
important day, but obviously it was very important. There`s been a sort of
carnival atmosphere here, people honking at the cars going by, honking and
waving. Lot of jubilation, I think you can sum it up with that word,
SCHULTZ: So where do the protests go from here? I mean, clearly the
protests have had an impact to the point where there`s been some movement
clearly today with the charges being brought. What`s next? What do you
think the crowd`s going to do?
TOURE: Well, a couple of things, Ed. I mean, there`s a big march
tomorrow, I believe that the lawyers are putting together, that should be
one of the larger marches of the week. So that will be a place for people
to vent and blow off steam.
But, you know, other people are talking about the larger issues around
education, around employment, around the large number of abandoned homes
and empty lots on this side of town as opposed to the beautiful homes on
the other side of town, and if we don`t make those structural institutional
changes, Joy, then...
TOURE: ... we`re going to continue to see these sort of problems.
REID: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of people talking to us today about saying
that it was kind of ironic that we saw so many police, just a super
abundance of law enforcement here when you can go two blocks down, and
there was drug activity happening today. And so, people were saying that
essentially they want to see the police in this community in a positive
way, not in the way that we saw with Freddie Gray.
SCHULTZ: All right. Toure and Joy Reid, great reporting on the ground
from Baltimore. Thank you so much for helping us out on the Ed Show.
And that is the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz. PoliticsNation with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now.
Good evening, Rev.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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