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PoliticsNation, Friday, May 1st, 2015

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Date: May 1, 2015
Guest: Paul Henderson, Areva Martin, Neil Franklin, Lawrence Kobilinsky,
Donte Hickman, Lisa Gladden

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed. And thanks to you
for tuning in.

We begin with the breaking news, moments ago the family of Freddie Gray
responded to the charges against six Baltimore police officers accused in
his death.


charges. These charges are an important step in getting justice for
Freddie. Remember, without justice, there`s no peace, but let us have
peace in the pursuit of justice.


SHARPTON: Those comments just hours after this announcement from Baltimore
state attorney Marilyn Mosby.


comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation coupled with the
medical examiner`s determination that Mr. Gray`s death was a homicide,
which we received today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause
to file criminal charges.


SHARPTON: Today Mosby stressed that her office had done an independent
investigation. She laid out in devastating detail how officers allegedly
illegally arrested Freddie Gray, failed to put a seat belt on him and
neglected to get him medical attention even when it was obvious he needed


MOSBY: Upon arrival in the transport wagon driven by officer Caesar
Goodson Lieutenant Rice, Officer Nero and officer Miller loaded Mr. Gray
into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seat belt while in the
wagon, contrary to a BPD general order. Following transport from baker
street, Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of
being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD
wagon. By the time officer Zachary Novak, Sergeant White and an unknown
officer attempted to remove Mr. Gray from the wagon, Mr. Gray was no longer
breathing at all. A medic was finally called to the scene whereupon
arrival the medic determined that Mr. Gray was now in cardiac arrest and
was critically and severely injured.


SHARPTON: The six officers face different charges, ranging from second-
degree murder to involuntary manslaughter, to assault. They are facing
from 20 years to 63 years in jail.

The "Associated Press" is reporting that all six officers are in custody,
and state`s attorney Mosby spoke directly to all of those who have marched
and protested since Freddie Gray`s death.


MOSBY: To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America, I
heard your call for no justice, no peace. Your peace is sincerely needed
as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.


SHARPTON: And tonight there are people marching again through the streets
of Baltimore and other cities. The challenge now to take the movement with
a message, a specific purpose, marching towards specific goals to improve
the community.

Joining me now is congressman Elijah Cummings, Democrat from Maryland. And
I want to say I feel he`s shown extraordinary leadership throughout this
crisis in Baltimore. He`s been out there at curfews, calling for peace and
for people to go home.

Congressman, thank you for being here.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: I`m glad to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: So what`s your reaction to these charges?

CUMMINGS: Reverend, I was surprised that the charges came out today. I
had said at 7:00 this morning on another show that I believe in Marilyn
Mosby. She is a person who lives in my community. She is a friend and
somebody I think highly of. She`s a distinguished lawyer, by the way, a
graduate of Tuskegee University, and her integrity is impeccable. Her
pursuit of excellence and everybody is aware of it. We elected her in
Baltimore to do the job that she`s doing, and she`s doing it extremely well
and that I have full faith.

I said this, this morning before I knew anything, that I had full faith and
confidence that she would look at all the evidence that she then presented,
I determined whether or not she need additional information. She knew she
had the full weight of the FBI and the Boston city police department behind
her and that she would take the law, size it up with the facts and make the
determination that was right, just, appropriate. And I said that no matter
what she decided, because I believe in her, that she would make the right
decision, and that`s even before I knew what she was going to decide.

SHARPTON: I think you said, and I`ve been down there with other civil
rights leaders and our chapters and all, one of the things, though, that I
think is important that you touched on, I -- I hear people who are giving
credit to this and that and even the marches, civil rights people, but the
first credit goes to the people that voted and elected a state prosecutor
who would look at the evidence fair. I don`t think we can forget she was
elected by the people there, and she --

CUMMINGS: That`s right.

SHARPTON: -- did her job there.

CUMMINGS: That`s exactly right, Reverend. A lot of the young people that
you see protesting peacefully hear in Baltimore. They were the ones that
came out and elected her, and, of course, she had a wide cross-section of
the city electing her. And the thing about it, Rev., is that she clearly
knows who Freddie is.


CUMMINGS: In other words, she -- she looked at him as a human being, and I
said today that -- that -- by the way, at his funeral I said did you see
him? Did anybody ever see this young man as a young fellow trying to be
somebody, trying to go forward in life? And today, Reverend, she saw him,
and she did what she thought to be appropriate.

SHARPTON: Now, you hear the -- the police unions saying she has a conflict
and she should step aside, they want a special prosecutor. How do you
respond to that?

CUMMINGS: I say to them that they obviously don`t know Marilyn Mosby.
They don`t know about her integrity. They don`t know that if she had
thought otherwise she would not have charged them. For her to do this, she
had to truly believe that this was -- that it was appropriate. And keep in
mind, Reverend, I have practiced criminal law for many years.


CUMMINGS: And I have not seen a prosecutor lay out their case like she
did. I mean, she took it from "a" to "z" to show why she was doing what
she was do, and she was completely transparent. She had already done her
own investigation.


CUMMINGS: So, I mean, I -- I think they should be confident that they will
receive justice and that`s part of our system. That`s the way the American
system works. And for so many people, the system of justice never seems to
begin. At least it`s gotten started in this case.

SHARPTON: Now, what is the mood in the streets? You`ve been out there
every day you`ve been out on the barricades at curfew time. What`s the
mood there tonight, Congressman?

CUMMINGS: I think people feel relieved, and they appear to be pleased,
that they finally see that, you know, like I said, somebody told me a few
minutes ago, one young person said, Mr. Cummings, when we were
demonstrating, we never believed that the things that we were doing might
result in something that was appropriate and right. And they said, well,
you know, we`re just glad to see that justice is moving forward, period.
And so I think people are relieved.

SHARPTON: I think you`re right.

Congressman Elijah Cummings, thank you for your time tonight and for your

CUMMINGS: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Now I want to bring in MSNBC`s Joy Reid.

Joy, you`ve been talking to people all day. What are they saying?

REID: Well, I can tell you, Rev, first of all, not what they are saying is
what they are doing. There have been people behind and cross the street,
chanting, literally all day since we got out here this morning, cars going
by honking, people waving, waving out of the cars, putting up their fists
out of the cars, waving bandanas, waving t-shirts and just a really
jubilant atmosphere.

I can tell you there`s more little kids out here than I`ve seen at any time
in the four days that we`ve been here. People are out here with their
children. Very happy mood. The men of Omega five just did a parade
basically walking by. And the people that we are talking to are all say
this is the beginning of justice. They know that there is a process, that
it is not finished. That these officers still have to be tried. Not all
of them are confident in the ultimate outcome, but they feel really
gratified to see justice move forward. They believe that they have been
heard by their elected officials, including Miss Mosby. Nick Mosby, her
husband, was walking around here and people were giving him hugs, the
handshake. And they feel like both of them really responded to this --
really respond to this community going back the years. And I think that is
important. They feel like they were a part of this community, as is Elijah
Cummings whose also got a lot of love out here. People feeling that their
congressman responded to them. That Katherine Pugh, the state senator
responded to them. So I think you saw a lot of democracy in action. There
were a lot of tough conversation that Elijah Cummings was having with
people last night. But I think that we saw the Democratic process really
taking place and people are glad to see it.

SHARPTON: Joy Reid, thank you so much.

REID: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Now, let me brick in our panel, veteran prosecutor Paul
Henderson and legal analyst Ariva Martin. And I want to thank you all for
being here, first of all.


SHARPTON: Major Franklin, what struck you most about the announcement of
charges? Let me start there.

think this is a great announcement. I think it`s a great opportunity for
coming together. But, you know, the FOP, the fraternal order of police,
have said that this is a -- can you hear me OK?

SHARPTON: Yes, go ahead. I hear you.

FRANKLIN: Yes. OK. The fraternal order of police says that this is a
rush to judgment. First of all, this is not judgment. This is in no way
judgment. This is enough evidence for charges to be placed, probable
cause. This is what we do every day in law enforcement when we`re working
cases. The police officers are citizens first, so just like we do with any
other case. Probable cause is established while the investigation


SHARPTON: All you need to move forward with a prosecution, and we saw this
-- in North Charleston not long ago in a police shooting is probably cause.
This is not to conclude the case when it goes to trial. Just enough for
probable cause.

FRANKLIN: Probable cause. The officers will get their day in court just
like any other citizens who have been charged with a crime. State`s
attorney Mosby has that probable cause. You know. There was no probable
cause to arrest Freddie Gray. That`s false arrest, you know. And there`s
probable cause, you know, regarding the due care. He wasn`t seat belted
in. There were many opportunities to render aid to Mr. Gray, and his calls
for service went ignored.

SHARPTON: Paul, isn`t that critical, Paul, that not only did the
prosecutor deal with what she says did and did not occur in the actual
vehicle, but she said that the actual arrest and taken into custody of Mr.
Gray was illegal. They had no -- they had no grounds to arrest him or take
him into custody in the first place.

HENDERSON: That`s absolutely relevant. And, you know, as I have been
saying since day one, that is the linchpin in analyzing this case. And it
goes beyond what we`ve been hearing from the police officers union talking
about the detention. We`re not talking about justifiable detention. We`re
talking about probable cause for arrest. And as we`ve talked about, and I
pointed out in the past, if the arrest is unjustifiable, there is no
justification for what happens beyond that point, and that is a legal
distinction that I`m so glad that she made initially as she laid out what
the charges would be, and the basis for that, which is because there was
never probable cause for the arrest in the first place, even though there
may have been a small knife on Mr. Gray. That is going to be really

And that`s also why you`ve seen the expansion beyond not just the review of
the officers that made the detention, but an examination of the officers
that were involved in the arrest and then in the transportation of Mr.


HENDERSON: Because that`s where all the charges are flowing from because
everything that happened based on that arrest, that`s the problem. That`s
the real problem.

SHARPTON: Let me show the state attorney saying that there is no probable
cause for Freddie Gray`s arrest. Let me play that actual statement she



MOSBY: Officers Miller and Nero then placed Mr. Gray in a seated position
and subsequently found a knife clipped to the inside of his pants pocket.
The blade of the knife was folded into the handle. The knife was not a
switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law. No crime had been committed
by Mr. Gray. Accordingly, Lieutenant Rice, Officer Miller and Officer Nero
illegally arrested Mr. Gray.


SHARPTON: Now, Areva, in their charging documents, the officers wrote that
Freddie Gray had a switchblade. Now, what explains this? Did the officer
just make a mistake?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Unfortunately, rev, they did make a mistake. They
made a purposeful misrepresentation trying to give justification for the
arrest that was made. And I think it`s important to -- to distinguish.
The Supreme Court has been clear that in certain high crime areas police
officers can chase, they can cause a suspect to stop, have a conversation
with them, even perhaps search that individual. But if there`s nothing
there that gives rise to probable cause, they have to say good-bye to that
individual, let them go on their merry way. They cannot arrest them.

In this case what officer Miller tried to do was to give justification for
arresting Mr. Gray, therefore, giving justification for everything that
happened to him during the transportation. And thank goodness that the
state`s attorney debunked that statement and showed that statement to be
untrue. And, unfortunately, in this case we found so many of the
statements made by the police to be blatantly untrue.

SHARPTON: Now, major Franklin, I want to play you something else the
state`s attorney said about Freddie Gray`s arrest. Listen to this.



MOSBY: These officers subsequently removed the knife and place it had on
the sidewalk. Mr. Gray was then placed back down on his stomach at which
time Mr. Gray began to flail his legs and scream as officer Miller placed
Mr. Gray in a restraining technique known as a leg lace. While Officer
Nero physically held him down against his will until a BPD wagon arrived to
transport Mr. Gray.


SHARPTON: Major, what is a leg lace, and is that normal to be used?

FRANKLIN: Well, it`s normal to be -- first of all, leg lace is when
someone is laying on their belly, and you bring their legs up behind them
and cross them and apply pressure forcing those legs down to the buttocks
area, and that`s how you control their legs. And that`s only used when
someone is combative.

But, again, you know, you have to have a reason for restraining him. You
have to have a reason for placing cuffs on him and arresting him in the
first place, and like it has been stated over and over again, there was no
probable cause for that arrested. The knife had been removed, and I want
to say something about that knife. There is no mistake. You can`t
misidentify a knife as being a switchblade if you`re a police officer
because are you taught to know what a spring-loaded knife is, and it was
obvious that that was not a spring-loaded knife, therefore, not an illegal
switchblade. So there`s no mistake about what was recorded in that report.
That has to be intentional.

I just want to make a quick comment about the fraternal order of police and
an opportunity missed here and not just in the community of Baltimore needs
a time of coming together and healing, but, you know, the whole country
does surrounding this type of behavior in policing.

They missed an opportunity to say to the citizens of this entire country is
that we`re willing to work with you, yes. We do support officers and their
families, but we also support you, the sit sense, and we want to come
together with you. We want to work with you on doing what is right. They
missed that opportunity.

SHARPTON: Well, I agree with you. I think that is the responsible thing
to do when members in any community and our community are wrong to say
we`re wrong here, but that doesn`t just everyone. I think they had the
opportunity to say the same that you said today. We all need to come
together, and if police are wrong, that doesn`t represent all police, but
to just have an almost knee-jerk reaction does not lead towards healing and
does not lead towards bringing people together.

Major Neil Franklin, Paul Henderson and Areva Martin, let me thank all of
you for your time tonight.

HENDERSON: Thanks so much for having us.

SHARPTON: Coming up, a medical experts weighs in on the Freddie Gray
autopsy, and today`s big news about what happened at the end of that ride
in the police van.

Also, keeping our focus, when the TV cameras go away. We`ll talk to a
preacher who is fighting to rebuild.


SHARPTON: Tonight we`re learning more about Baltimore`s state attorney
Marilyn Mosby, the prosecutor in the Freddie Gray case. She just sat down
with NBC News and talked about her family`s rich history in law


MOSBY: I come from four generations, five generations of police officers.
I know and I understand the sacrifice and the commitment, the level of
commitment that police officers make day in and day out to not only take
time away from their families but to sacrifice their lives for the
betterment of our communities.


SHARPTON: Mosby was elected in November. She`s been on the job for just
four months, and shy`s the youngest chief prosecutor of any major U.S.
city. She made quite an impression today, quite the impression.

We`ll be right back with more news from Baltimore.



engage in brutality, misconduct, racism and corruption, let me be clear.
There is no place in the Baltimore city police department for you.


SHARPTON: That`s the Baltimore mayor talking directly to the city police
department after the state charged six officers in the death of Freddie
Gray. That announcement prompted an immediate reaction to the streets --
in the streets after days of protests calling for justice.


SHARPTON: Joining mow now is Baltimore city councilman Brandon Scott.
Thank you for being here, councilman.


SHARPTON: What`s your reaction to these charges?

SCOTT: It`s a reaction of what I knew that the state`s attorney would do.
The state`s attorney is young but is very capable, and we knew that she
would look at fact and will make a decision on the facts and that`s what
she has done. She`s done the job she said she was going to do when she
campaigned. She campaigned on this issue. She said she would take this
issue very seriously and she`s just making us all proud by doing what she
said she was going to do.

I think also it`s important, Rev., that we have folks to understand that
this isn`t justice or end of justice. This is just the beginning of this
process and folks are still a lot today, they have to -- they can celebrate
be and be happy but they have to understand that this isn`t over. Folks
that are angry shouldn`t be angry, folks that are excited shouldn`t be as
excited and they should be. They should be calm and level-headed and they
have to stay in the middle or today you can celebrate, but you have to
understand that this issue is far from over.

SHARPTON: No, I think that you`re right, and -- but I think that people
are happy that at least we have an opportunity to see all of the evidence
and -- but this is far from over. We saw charges in Shaun Bell. We saw
charges in Trayvon Martin. It doesn`t conclude the case, but at least
there is a case.

SCOTT: Yes, sir, at least you have a chance.

SHARPTON: The state`s attorney, Marilyn Mosby, also had a warning for
anyone who may be leaking information about the investigation. Watch this,


MOSBY: And I strongly condemn anyone in law enforcement with access to
trial evidence who had leaked information prior to the resolution of this
case. You are only damaging our ability to conduct a fair and impartial
process for all parties involved.


SHARPTON: How hard will it be to keep information under wraps in this
case, councilman?

SCOTT: We know things leak all the time. I said all week long folks have
to stop leaking information and I said something to the media. Like
listen, just because you get it, you note sensitivity of the situation, you
know the level of anxiety in our community, you know the issues that is
going on in our community right now, we have to be very careful about
leaking information. And it`s very hard in a case like this because
everyone wants the headline and everyone wants the exclusive, but the
people have to think about being a human first and think about this family,
this city, this town and the police department and the state`s attorney.
Everyone that is going to be impacted, especially this young man`s family
by this incident.

SHARPTON: Now, the "Associated Press" reports, councilman, quote, "Gray is
at least the fifth black man to die after police encounters since police
commissioner Anthony Batts took office or has been in charge. There is a
distrust between many in the community and police on both sides. How do we
repair that relationship?

SCOTT: We`re going to have to start at basics. It is going to have to
start with training. It is going to have to start with policies. Some of
the policies and laws are outside of the city of Baltimore. There are
state laws, but also we`ll do some basic stuff, and even before this,
Reverend, my local commander and myself have been talking about doing
(INAUDIBLE) initiatives where cops are the focus for the young people.
Basic things like that.

Getting some of our young people in our community, in our city to become
police officers. They want to see change in the police department, we
always say be the change that you want to see in the world. Those are the
kinds of things we`ll have to do. We also, we are going to have to have an
understanding and an understanding that communication is going to be key.
I know I`m going to be taking officers to meet with young people, just
meeting them and letting them get everything out on both sides so that we
can move forward. The only way we`re going to move forward with these
things, if we talk these issues out. Yes, we are going to have body
cameras , yes, we are going to have all that policy change but we also have
to a culture change and a mindset change.

SHARPTON: Councilman Brandon Scott, thank you for your time tonight.

SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, today the state medical examiner ruled Freddie
Gray`s death a homicide. How did they come to that conclusion? A forensic
scientist joins us.

And how a community is coming together to rebuild after a week that
residents say won`t define their great city.


AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST, "POLITICS NATION": We`re back with the breaking
news. Six Baltimore police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray.
Today the medical examiner handed over Gray`s autopsy report to the state`s
attorney. The findings are not public, but she talked about how Gray was


homicide by the Maryland state medical examiner is believed to be the
result of a fatal injury that occurred while Mr. Gray was unrestrained by a
seat belt in the custody of the Baltimore Police Department wagon.


SHARPTON: A fatal injury that occurred in the Police Department wagon, so
how did the medical examiner determine this was a homicide?

Well, joining me now is Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist and
professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Thank you for being


SHARPTON: The medical examiner handed over the autopsy report today. What
medical evidence are you looking for that could prove a homicide, Doc?

KOBILINSKY: Well, first of all, medical examiner performs an autopsy and
tries to determine the cause of death and manner of death. Cause of death
is a medical explanation for the death. In other words, respiratory
failure, secondary to the severance of the spinal cord. The manner of
death can be one of five categories, one of which is accident. Another is
homicide, another is we don`t know, in-determined, so the medical examiner
basically examining the body and listening to the police reports, the
police investigation puts it all together and has decided that there is
reason to believe it is a homicide. That`s not a charge of murder because
you can have a justified homicide, but it just means death at the hands of

SHARPTON: Now, here`s what the state`s attorney said today about how Mr.
Gray was transported in that wagon. He was handcuffed. His legs were put
into shackles. He was put into the wagon on his stomach with no seatbelt.
Now, what does this tell you about what might have helped cause the fatal
injury, Doctor?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it seems to me that when you`re a prisoner in police
custody there`s an absolute obligation to protect that person. By failing
to seat belt him that was negligent, and I think the police understand and
recognize that. On the other hand, the question is what happened to Mr.
Gray? When did it happen and how did it happen? There were these reports
that there was some trauma to the head.


KOBILINSKY: That seemed to be a result of him being thrown into the back
of the van and hitting a bolt, and so that could have been, you know, the
beginning of the damage to the neck.

SHARPTON: Or there could be something else because the day after Freddie
Gray died police held a press conference to talk about his injuries.
Listen to what they said.


was no physical bodily injury that we saw nor was it evident in the autopsy
of Mr. Gray. None of his limbs were broken. He did suffer a very tragic
injury to his spinal cord.


SHARPTON: Now, is it possible he could have had other injuries or bruises
and they cleared up in the week that he was in a coma?

KOBILINSKY: I -- I really don`t think so. When a person is injured and
there`s bleeding, there`s hemorrhage. It takes on a course of recovery.
The color changes, for example. It would have still been observable,
especially in an autopsy. They look for that sort of thing.

SHARPTON: So it`s not possible he had any other bumps or bruises?

KOBILINSKY: I don`t think so. I think the outstanding information is the
trauma to the head, the fractures of the vertebrae, the three vertebrae,
and the severance of the spinal cord.

SHARPTON: Now, in the cell phone video of the arrest, a woman screams that
there`s something wrong with Freddie Gray`s leg, that it looks like it`s
broken, and he`s dragged into the van. Does this video tell you anything
about what might have happened, doctor?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think based on that I had come to the conclusion that
there was some traumatic event that happened during the takedown. In fact,
would I like to see the autopsy so I can get a better understanding of why
that was ruled out? The question is where did the injury to the vertebrae
take place? Was it during the takedown that struggle, or was it in the
van? Mean, either one is possible, but apparently the medical examiner
ruled out first and said the injury took place in the van.

SHARPTON: Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, thank you very much for your time.

KOBILINSKY: Sure, pleasure.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, marches in Baltimore now, but the challenge now
to make that movement with a message, a specific purpose. Marching towards
a specific goal. We`ll talk to a preacher who is fighting to rebuild his
church and his city.



SHARPTON: It broke our hearts to see what happened at the center being
built by Reverend Donte Hickman. Reverend Donte Hickman, whatever we have
to do, we`ll going to help you rebuild that center. You are a national
project now.


SHARPTON: It was a heartbreaking loss, a senior center being built in East
Baltimore that burned down in the riots Monday night. It was supposed to
be the new heart of the neighborhood. It`s now gone. At a summit
yesterday in Baltimore faith leaders and civil rights leaders promised to
help the pastor behind this project to rebuild.

Joining me now is that pastor, Reverend Donte Hickman of Southern Baptist
Church. Thank you for being here, first of all.

Sharpton, for having me.

SHARPTON: Pastor, there`s been an incredible outpouring of support. What
does that mean to you and your congregation, and tell people what it was
that you were doing with this center.

HICKMAN: We were having a center built for 60 senior housing facilities,
for low-income seniors with a transformation center and with workforce
development and initiatives for teenagers. Behavioral counseling -- and
mortgage lending services to really rebuild and empower the residents that
were forgotten about by the city and other planners. It was faith that
said on Monday night while it was in the fire that this was going to be
rebuilt, and throughout the course of that week we received so much love
from around the world and from our faith leaders and even from you,
Reverend Sharpton, that has helped us to get our footing. We`re delayed
but not ultimately destroyed. Our development team has told us we`ll be
about four months behind, and before the summer of 2016 we`ll have that

SHARPTON: Now, had you told me earlier on my radio show that this area had
nothing like this coming up for a long time, that you were really -- it`s
not as if in some cities you were one block and there was another center a
couple blocks away. You were really going to be the anchor of that kind of
service in that area.

HICKMAN: Absolutely. This area had experienced disinvestment and
dilapidation for over three decades. Nobody wanted to invest. Johns
Hopkins University cut their development off at the train tracks, and they
had caused displacement of thousands of residents and gentrification, and
nobody had a plan for this area. The Southern Baptist Church being in the
community for 80 years said the church can`t just build a mega church
building without having affordable housing and mixed use property
development so we made it our business to invest and find partners that
would do what was need to transform the community.

SHARPTON: Now, I understand you were out in the community working, trying
to deal with the protest and the violence on Monday night when you got word
that your center itself was being burned down. Tell us what happened and
how you reacted.

HICKMAN: When the riots came and I saw it on the news after the funeral, I
went quickly to New Shiloh, and in the office of pastors I told them that
we have to get out into the streets to rally for peace, to be a ministry of
presence. And while we were out there coordinating that effort, marching
and actually having success, I got a call that there was a fire at Gay and
Chester, and I rushed right over to see it engulfed in flames, and
immediately I thought this couldn`t be someone in the community because
they knew the heart of Southern Baptist Church and the only church that
would invest in that area, and so it had to be somebody that was
insensitive to the relationship, but we didn`t focus on the negative. We
turned it around, and we said we would be positive and rebuild for the
kingdom of God and the benefit of that community.

SHARPTON: So now as people are seemingly very happy that at least the
process of justice is starting, there`s also the effort to rebuild and not
forget the damage that was done Monday night with those that got violent,
and I think that building on parallel tracks or rebuilding is almost
symbolic and very hopeful, and the attitude you`ve displayed has been
nothing short of inspiring.

HICKMAN: We -- we have to change the narrative. After the riots of 1968,
we were able to gain our rights, but we forgot about rebuilding in our
urban centers, and these riots in 2015, our testament has we have to rise
from the ashes. If we can rebuild Iraq, then we ought to be able to
rebuild the urban centers in America, and we want East Baltimore to be a
pilot case for what can happen in Detroit, in Ferguson and in every city in

SHARPTON: Those viewers that want to get in touch with your church and see
the efforts and be helpful, how do they do that, Pastor?

HICKMAN: and they can scroll to the Mary Harvin
Transformation Center Development Initiatives and they can sow not only to
this building but to the revitalization of the entire community, we`re
going to take it back one block at a time.

SHARPTON: Pastor Donte Hickman, thank you for your time tonight.

HICKMAN: Thank, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the family of Freddie Gray, they have been calling
for peace from the start. Today they responded to the new charges.

Also, the stories you maybe haven`t heard about from this historic week in


SHARPTON: Tonight in Baltimore we must not forget Freddie Gray and his
family. Freddie Gray was just 25 years old. He had a twin sister.
Friends had described him as friendly and funny, but at 25 he was trying to
figure his life out. We also need to remember his family. Since his
death, his mother and others of his loved ones have had to stay strong in
the face of public scrutiny. They participated in a peaceful march,
leading a group of protesters to where Freddie was initially picked up.
They grieved at his funeral while the whole world watched and while there
was still no answers on what happened to their son. His family repeatedly
condemned the rioting that broke out in Baltimore on Monday and called for
an end to the violence.


FREDERICKA GRAY, TWIN SISTER: Can you all please, please stop the
violence? Freddie Gray would not want this. Freddie`s father and mother
does not want violence. Violence does not get justice.

RICHARD SHIPLEY, STEPFATHER: All the violence and destruction, I am really

GLORIA DARDEN, MOTHER: I want you all to get justice for my son but don`t
do it like this year. Don`t tear up the whole city, just for him, it`s


SHARPTON: So as we close out the week, think about Freddie Gray and his

Joining me now is Maryland State Senator Lisa Gladden. Thank you for being


SHARPTON: What has Freddie Gray`s family meant to the community this week?

GLADDEN: I think that what`s happened with Freddie Gray`s family is that
we now have a mission and a purpose to make Baltimore better, and I think
that we can do that because the family has spoken and the family has lost
and so has the city of Baltimore. I think that we have an ability to do
great things, and we can do that now that we are organized and we know what
our mission is.

SHARPTON: You know, Senator, as I spent the days there talking with the
mayor, talking with activists and talking about the family, and I`ve been
in these cases for decades. Regular people show an extraordinary strength.
These people didn`t plan on a public career like you or me or whoever, and
they showed extraordinary strength. I think people see themselves and
their families which also gives them further energy and passion to fight.

GLADDEN: That`s correct. I mean, I think you`re exactly right. Ordinary
people are doing extraordinary things, and they are doing it because they
love not just their families but they love the city and they love the city
of Baltimore. I believe that we will see incredible changes in urban areas
but particularly in Baltimore city.

SHARPTON: I think it also shows the great strength to many of us. It`s an
issue, it`s a cause. To them it`s their son, it`s their brother. It`s
their loved one, and they have got to carry that pain.


SHARPTON: And still rise above it and say let`s do this in the right way.

GLADDEN: And they will, and that`s exactly right because every time you
saw Freddie Gray or you saw his picture, you said that`s my cousin. That`s
my uncle. That`s my brother, and we knew that and because we saw the --
not just association of who -- who he was, but we also saw the mission and
what the cause might be and we knew that that cause I think would be
something to treasure and that would be something to make our city stronger
and better.

SHARPTON: And -- and now it`s up to those that are going to court to go
the next lap. This is the beginning. State Senator Lisa Gladden, thank
you for your time tonight. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: It`s been a tumultuous week in Baltimore, but you might not have
seen the outpouring of love and community that defines that city. Images
like this police officer hugging a young protester during a march, or this
street performer taking tips to donate to Freddie Gray`s family. There was
the Baltimore symphony orchestra who thought we could all use a little
music in our lives and brought their free show to the street.


SHARPTON: Images from across the city showed neighbors coming out to help
clean up in the aftermath of riots, including this 2-year-old little girl
with a broom in her hand. There was this young man handing out bottles of
water to police officers and a police officer fist bumping a young man
riding his bike. These images are what Baltimore is truly all about. The
vast majority of both protesters and police officers are good and just
want what`s best for the community, and despite setbacks the mayor told me
this week the people of Baltimore will not let this define them.


Baltimore that I know and love, the rioting and the looting and the damage
that was done, and we`re working very hard use all of the resources that we
have, including the tool of the curfew, to get things back to normal. They
say you rise like a Phoenix, but it`s Baltimore so I say we`re going to
soar like a raven.


SHARPTON: Soar like a raven, the mayor told us. Well, I hope that
Baltimore does. I hope the nation does because out of struggles, yes,
there comes pain. Yes, there comes inconvenience, but you go through
whatever inconvenience and pain to make gain and progress. You don`t
become obsessed with the pain and start glorifying the discomfort, and we
must take all that we`ve had to deal with in the last several months and
transform this country with it and make it a better place. We must not
become part of the hostilities that we fight. On either sides of the
debate and either sides of the argument.

Let us not forget that in this particular case an African-American young
woman, 35-years-old, made charges today, announced them as the elected
state attorney in a city where an African-American woman is the mayor. It
was people that fought that made their holding office possible. That`s why
I cannot give way to pessimism and dismay because every day I`m seeing
results of people that fought before us, and if we keep fighting, progress
is within reach. It`s in our hands if we are mature enough to grasp it.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. Have a great weekend. "HARDBALL"
starts right now.


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