The Ed Show for Monday, May 18th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Monday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: May 18, 2015
Guest: Freddie Haynes, Ryan Reilly, Michael O`Hanlon, Sheldon Whitehouse,
John Fugelsang, Barry Lynn
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody was doing anything and they went start
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most violent crime scene that I have ever been
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And climate catastrophe.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You do not have time to deny
the effects of climate change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are sleep walking our way toward a climate
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, THE ED SHOW HOST: We start tonight with President
Obama`s new effort to improve police community relationships.
Earlier today, the White House announced that it will ban federal transfers
of military style gear to local police departments. The President is
responding to dramatic scenes like this that played out in Ferguson,
Missouri last year.
The banned items include armored truck vehicles, bayonets, grenade
launchers, guns and ammunition .50-caliber or larger, certain types of
camouflage uniforms and weaponized aircraft.
President Obama visited Camden, New Jersey today where he spoke today where
he spoke about the policy shift.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We`re also releasing new policies on the military-style equipment
that the federal government has in the past provided the state and local
law enforcement agencies. And we`ve seen how militarized gear can
sometimes give people a feeling like there`s an occupying force as opposed
to a force that`s part of the community that`s protecting them and serving
them. It can alienate and intimidate local residents, and send the wrong
message. So we`re going to prohibit some equipment made for the
battlefield that is not appropriate for local police departments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Other equipment can still be acquired with vigorous oversight.
This list includes armored vehicles, tactical vehicles, riot gear and
The equipment will be transfer only if local police provided additional
certification and assurances that the gear will be use responsibly. The
militarization of police has taking place through the defense department
excess property program. It`s transferred more than $4.3 billion and
equipment since 1997. In 2013 alone, roughly $500 million worth military
equipment was transferred to local police department.
Today`s announcement is part of a larger White House initiative to improve
community policing. The President visited Camden today because the city is
taking great strives to make police officers part of their community.
Camden`s new policing strategy comes as crime rates are falling in the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: They cut desk jobs in favor of getting more officers out into the
streets. Not just to walk to the beat but to actually get to know the
residents, to setup basketball games, to volunteer in schools, to
participate in reading programs, to get to know the small businesses in the
Now, to be a police officer takes a special kind of courage. And I talked
about this on Friday at a memorial for 131 officers who gave their lives to
protect communities like this one. It takes a special kind of courage to
run towards danger, to be a person that resident`s turn to when they`re
most desperate. And when you match courage with compassion, with care and
understanding of the community, like we`ve seen here in Camden, some really
outstanding things can begin to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Camden is one of 21 police departments taking part in the White
House police data initiative, this departments will upgrade technology to
better provide data on police activity.
By having reliable data on things like police stops and use of force, it
will help police fix problem area. It will also help community`s knowledge
about police citizen encounters giving them insight into those often
dramatic and sometimes dangerous and lethal engagements.
Get your cellphones out, I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, "Will demilitarizing the police make America safer?"
Go to polls.msnbc.com/ed to cast your vote. I`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.
Let me bring in Political Strategist, Angela Rye and the Reverend Dr.
Freddie Haynes, Senior Pastor of the Friendship West Baptist Church and
Ryan Reilly, Justice Reporter for the Huffington Post.
Angela, will these new police strategies really impact community police
relationships and will they help dramatically reduce the tensions we`ve
seen in those communities?
ANGELA RYE, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Doc, I think that it`s a
start, right? I think that part of this is, you know, really understanding
how to engage with people, and the way that you do that is to begin a
relationship. I think this is a rocket science, right?
And so part of this is, you know, the President and I know we`re just kind
of talk about this. He has the pernicious words in way that makes what
he`s trying to do digestible to police union, and also to people who have
never had the types of interaction with law enforcement that many of us
RYE: So he has a very delicate line to walk and I think that it is a good
first step but I think a whole lot more has to be done.
More resources have to be put towards this initiative. People have to
continue to tell the truth and officer friendly can no longer be an
anomaly. It has to be the norm. People have to engage and have
relationships with their police department.
DYSON: And somebody`s preferably from that neighborhood.
Dr. Haynes, are people hopeful that some of this reforms will work because
we know the tensions there when we talked about tensions between police
departments and citizens, they ain`t equal. Because if you got a revolver,
and a badge, and a shield to protect your actions that`s not equal to a
person who is intimidated by the show of force. Do you think this will
DR. FREDDIE HAYNES, SENIOR PASTOR, FRIENDSHIP WEST BAPTIST CHURCH: Again
as Angela so well said, we`re moving in the right direction. It is a good
first step because we want to move away from the declared war that so many
communities have felt victimize by to go through the streets of Ferguson in
the aftermath of Michael Brown`s killing, was to see as it were Bull
Connor`s (ph) policing on steroids, to see the militarize response. It`s
almost as if your own government has declared war on you.
And so I think that to move away from persecution and surveillance to
protection and service is what the step, is helping us to move toward.
So I think it`s a wonderful first step, I think the President is on point
when he talks about the importance of engaging the community because we
want to move from feeling occupation to cooperation and that`s when law
enforcement brings about justice and of course on the wills of that will be
DYSON: Right. Ryan, how our police departments reacting to the Obama
administration demilitarizing police today?
RYAN REILLY, JUSTICE REPORTER, HUFFINGTON POST: You know, I think it`s
tough to say because, you know, it`s like today but I -- it is a important
to note that, you know, law enforcement officers was very involved in this
process, and spoke out and support of a lot of this programs very early on.
And, you know, overall the list of items that are actually explicitly
banned and won`t be set out anymore is it extraordinarily long and there`s
not too many people defending say handing bayonet for haven`t heard that
bayonet lobby (ph) come out and strong support of the same. That`s
absolutely necessary for the police to have at the cost of the federal
But, you know, overall, you know, I think there is just more of (inaudible)
and on how this items will be use that`s probably going to have the most
impact. But the list of actual if things that are being explicitly remove
isn`t extraordinarily large. And I think that`s probably a result of the
lobbying that the law enforcement (inaudible).
DYSON: Yeah. Angela, do you think this new bliss that program will work
because people have said, we don`t know how many staffs (inaudible) are
occurring. We don`t know what ends up happening when they are interactions
that are hostile between police people and citizens do you think this is
going to help?
RYE: It has to help. And I think part of this is, again, if there`s no
data, we can`t really understand how severe the problem is. One thing that
was done I think as you know it, the end of last Congress is, Bobby Scott
finally got over the threshold (ph) with his Death in Custody Act -- that
is another data collection point that is so very important to seeing how
these things will pan out and how relationships will be strengthen with law
Part of it is they can no longer be us versus them. If it going to be
about community engagement and involving people in crime prevention and
ensuring that people aren`t just targeted because of their colors because
the color, because of their skin, that has to be huge part of that.
We`re seeing that even in industries with there is an under representation
of people of color, then we know that we have a problem to fix. If there`s
an over representation of people of colors that are dying and who are being
arrested or stop-and-frisk like what we saw in New York, you have to do
something about, the only way to fix that is through Data (ph).
DYSON: Yeah, that gives meaning to Big Data (ph) for sure.
Dr. Haynes, what`s the biggest thing police can do right now to improve
community relationships in these, especially, communities of color where
the hostilities have taken just epic proportion.
HAYNES: Well, again, I think it`s important that we move from occupation
to cooperation and that the police are seen as partners, not only in law
enforcement but ensuring that there is a presence of justice. And so, one
of the things I`ve seen police departments that are putting together
basketball leagues in these communities where there is high crime. I think
the President was on point talking about engaging in service so that
children engage police officers as they receive tutoring and reading.
Things of that nature that emphasize service and protection will help to
recreate and redefine what policing looks like in the 21st century. So the
kinds of service activities that engage the community with the police are a
part of the community partnering with the community, those are the kinds of
things that will turn this around and again redefine law enforcement in the
DYSON: And before I turn to Ryan again, I going to ask both Angela and Dr.
Haynes while you`re here, in light of a storm, we`re going to talk about
later of course which we know what the way call (ph) situation where police
people are involved in a gun battle and 9 people were killed in rival
gangs. We didn`t hear the language of thug.
DYSON: We didn`t hear the criminalization of the community. We didn`t
talk about white on white crime.
DYSON: Do you think that that context provides an interpretive analysis
for us to make hear about how we approach these communities and if we are
already pre-criminalize them, we`re going to tend to have the more hostile
and more -- therefore, those communities are going to be more vulnerable
when we bring the militarized, if you will, weaponry to bear upon them.
Can you all talk a bit about that?
RYE: Yeah. I think as an answer right here. I think the real issue is
media has a role to play too. This really is 360-degree relationship. If
law enforcement thinks that that you know, black people are more likely to
commit crimes because that is how the media continues to portray them. And
there is no one to combat those stereotypes.
You can`t just say in racism by ending police brutality. Racism has to be
ended at someplace else. Stereotypes have to be killed someplace else.
And so I think and we all have a responsibility too with our bearing
platforms to ensure that that type of language has no place and of course,
Doc, you are very effective in doing that.
DYSON: Bless you. So, Dr. Haynes, what do you think?
HAYNES: Well, I agree with her wholeheartedly. As a matter of fact, we
cannot lay all of these on policing.
In a real sense, the long legacy of racism in this country, often times
policing was symptomatic as opposed to the root cause. And so until, we
deal with the presuppositions that have been (feed) into many of the
police officer who come into the community with a certain notion as it
relates to what this community is like. And so I see this person as a
I am only a little 5th grader, they are Hulk Hogan. All of that is a
presupposition that has been (feed) by the media, by this nation`s refusal
to deal with. It`s lingering like sea of racism as we still in the 51st
state, the state of denial.
So this is one way of delivering us from that so that we can begin again to
create communities of opportunity.
DYSON: All right. So Ryan, if military equipment wasn`t present in
Ferguson, do you think it would have played out differently without the
kind of dramatic confrontation (ph) we saw down there?
REILLEY: I mean. I do. Yeah. And I definitely think it was not only
about you know, the presence of the equipment but it was used. There are
just times where it changed the entire dynamic of how the crowd was acting
when the sort of equipment sheared up. I mean on the 13th for example of
August, you have a very calm situation and there is a church done playing
(ph), (inaudible), you know, happy which still playing on the radio. And
all that happened was a state center, a couple of their people, blocking a
road, that wasn`t even that busy of a road, and because of that and nothing
else, they brought in these vehicles.
So which really, you know, stirred up the crowd and creates a
confrontational situation because people were sort of (ph) outrage that
they did feel like they were being occupied.
There is no necessary -- I mean there is nothing present that would have
possibly, you know, excuse the present of these vehicles and even the St.
Luis County Police Chief later acknowledge that, "Yeah, we probably
shouldn`t been using rifle scopes to check out the crowd and maybe wasn`t
the best idea.
So I mean, you know, this is just the way this was handled. I think it`s
something that`s also going to be subject of a report out of the Justice
Department and after action report looking at what they did and what they
could have done better. Because they -- I don`t think like a lot of other
cities were able to prepare for a plan event. So when something pops up
like this, that something that they need to figure out how to take care
DYSON: So Angela, it wasn`t the fact what went down in Ferguson is what
brought to the attention of most of Americans, the fact that we have over
militarize our police departments and that laid directly to the President`s
RYE: I think that`s only a part of it. Like over militarization is one
thing but the attitude behind that is another. When you`re in your own
backyard and you feel like you`re the enemy because that is when that
(inaudible) equipment is used and in that attitude if it make that even
worse or compound that fact, I think that would make anyone tensed and
I think we`re living in days (ph) now where there are people that look like
us who are highly intimidated anytime they encounter a police officer and
that have to change.
DYSON: Right. Angela Rye, Reverend Freddie Haynes and Ryan Reilly, Thank
you so much for your time tonight.
Remember to answer tonight`s question at polls.msnbc.com/ed. We`ll have
the results later in the show.
Coming up, a biker brawl in Texas has left state law enforcement on the
edge. We`ll have an update from the scene ahead. And later, Antarctica
ice is disappearing at alarming rate. We look at what these ice loss means
for our planet.
DYSON: Welcome back.
Nine people are dead and 18 injured after a huge a biker brawl in Waco,
Texas on Sunday. We`ll have more on that next.
In the meantime, we`re keeping our eyes on a possible development here.
We`re following a possible heavy landing of a Hawaiian Airlines flight at
Los Angeles International Airport. Sources say the plane may have a fuel
problem and might not be able to dump fuel if needed.
We`ll bring you any major updates as developments come in.
Stay tuned. We`ll be right back.
Welcome back to the Ed Show.
As we reported, nine people are dead and 18 injured after a huge biker
brawl in Waco, Texas on Sunday.
At least a 170 people were arrested and will be charged with engaging an
organized crime. Fighting spilled out of the Twin Peaks Restaurant and
escalated from chains, clubs and knives to gunfire.
In fact, biker gangs were involved in the melee and exchanged gunfire with
NBC`s Jay Gray has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY GRAY, NBC NEWS REPORTER: Even veteran law officer say they`re stunned
by the brace and attack in the carnage left behind.
SGT. W. PATRICK SWANTON: We have wounded inside. We had people stabbed.
We had people shot and we had people beat.
GRAY: Nine gang members killed, at least 18 wounded during a full on
recruiting and turf war between five outlaw biker groups.
SWANTON: We have five known gangs. They were involved here. I am not
about to give them the respect of mentioning their names.
GRAY: Police say it started in the bathroom at the Twin Peaks Restaurants
billing (ph) into the bar and then the parking lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were the people who have pull guns out, start
shooting people asked what they did in there.
GRAY: That`s when officers already stitch (ph) in the area rushed in.
SWANTON: We`ve been here for the past two months knowing that there issue.
GRAY: And police say they approach the manager of Twin Peaks about gang
activity before the shootout. We`ve encouraged them to work with us to
eliminate some of that activity to keep it from happening but that was to
GRAY: This morning, Twin Peaks corporate headquarters revoke the Waco
Restaurant franchise saying in a written statement that the management team
chose to ignore the warnings and advice from both the police and our
And as the investigation continues here, there is now a new concern.
SWANTON: They are threatening to kill the uniformed officers and we`re
aware of that...
GRAY: Aware and local state and federal officer still on alert across the
area say, "Ready, if it comes to that."
DYSON: For more on this melee, let`s bring in Olivia Messer Police
Reporter for the Waco Tribune Herald
Olivia, give us the latest about what`s going on there?
OLIVIA MESSER, POLICE REPORTER WACO TRIBUNE HERALD: I think that the
development today, the main ones are that bans has been set for most of the
170 that were arrested yesterday. Now, that they`ve been moved into jail,
we`ve had the chance to see, you know, some of their names and some of
their mugshots and $1 million bond which set on each of them. So, it looks
like, you know, they`re, probably, going to be in jail for a little while.
The other development is we`re kind of keeping track of how many other
biker gang members are coming into the city. Police are saying that that
number is slowing and they haven`t had any other major incidents but that`s
really what kind of they`re focusing on right now, I think.
DYSON: So, the restaurant in question here, the Twin Peak, is it going to
allowed to reopen because there`s been a quite a bit of consternation about
the fact that they were pre-warned, they were asked to be a bit more
vigorous than they were, and it seems that they were -- those concerns were
ignored by the restaurant.
MESSER: Yeah. I think local management is really what police are focusing
on right now. That corporate revokes their franchise agreement, so I think
that`s going to be a pretty big hurdle for them to overcome if they would
like to reopen. The TABC put a seven-day suspension on their alcohol and
liquor license. So, if they are open for the next seven days, they will
not be able to serve alcohol.
But I also think that in general, it seems like people in Waco are
frustrated at the picture that police are painting of the management and,
you know, I don`t know how well their business would do after this.
DYSON: Well, let`s ask a broader a question there, how is the community
itself feeling? Are they on edge because, you know, I`ve talked earlier
about the fact that when they were, you know, uprising is going on in
Baltimore, people were criminalized called thugs, seen as wayward people.
But here, we have an incidence where a lot of people have been killed and
there`s been a tremendous hostility between the police and them. Is their
similar reaction, first of all, to them being criminalizes thugs and then,
secondly is the community itself on edge?
MESSER: I definitely think that the community is on edge, maybe less or so
(ph) than last night. Yesterday, a lot of streets were closed and the
entire convention center was being used to detain, you know, some 200
suspects. And we don`t normally have something that big happened here. So
that was concerning to a lot of people. But, you know, I think that word
"thug", I`ve seen it used by people in Waco to describe some of the people
who were involved in yesterday`s melee.
And I think that there`s generally concern about bikers coming into town
yesterday`s, you couldn`t walk by feet without seeing a police officer in
the city. And -- but I think today with business is reopening, there`s a
little bit less of our concern. I think people are kind of moving back to
DYSON: All right. Olivia Messer, thank you so much for joining us.
MESSER: Thank you.
DYSON: Still ahead, Senator Sherrod and White House prepares for a major
milestone on Capitol Hill. And a major setback in Iraq as ISIS forces take
control of a major city. We have the latest on the takeover of Ramadi,
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
There were two major updates in the fight against ISIS this weekend.
The Obama administration announced on Saturday that a Senior ISIS Official
was killed in special operation`s ground raid in Syria. Abu Sayyaf was
reported to be in-charged of the terror group`s oil gas and financial
But as an ISIS leader falls in Syria, the group is claiming a victory in
Iraq. They have captured the city of Ramadi.
The NBC News Keir Simmons has more.
KEIR SIMMONS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Iraqi security forces appear to flee
Ramadi escaping the ISIS advance.
Video unverified by NBC News shows Humvee packed with Iraqi military in
full retreat leaving a crucial city scene in deserted (ph).
A propaganda video released by an ISIS affiliates Saturday reports to show
ISIS fighter`s walking Ramadi`s empty streets, a hospital ransack video
(inaudible) that has intense fighting.
The Secretary of State insisting this morning, ISIS remains on the
SECRETARY JOHN KERRY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: It is possible to have the
kind of attack we`ve seen in Ramadi but I am absolutely confident in the
days ahead that will be reversed.
SIMMONS: There had been an intense air campaign to save Ramadi, a city
just about 80 miles west of Baghdad. The U.S. has sent weapons and is
MUHANNAD HAIMOUR, ANBAR GOVERNOR SPOKESMAN: We`re getting reports minute
by minute but we believe that there are 500 people have been executed or
died in battle.
SIMMONS: Eight thousand civilians have fled in recent days. Behind them,
ISIS controls much of the city and the military base packed with weapons.
And the Anbar region is of course a place where so many Americans died
during the Iraq war. But an Iraqi official tells me he believes that the
city of Ramadi fell to an ISIS force numbering just hundreds.
Meanwhile, thousands of Shia militia has said to be gathering to try to
liberate the city which is largely Sunni.
DYSON: For more, let`s turn to Michael O`Hanlon, Senior Fellow and
Director of Research of the Brookings Institution.
Michael, is this a major setback in the fight against ISIS?
MICHAEL O`HANLON, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: You know, I think, it is
significant. I think that people were hoping few months ago that by this
point in the mid-spring, we would see the Iraqi forces liberating Mosul
which is the biggest city in the north and west. The biggest city they
took, that ISIL took last year but we`re nowhere near that.
There was a modest success in Tekrit and now this major setback in Ramadi.
And I hope Secretary Kerry is right to say that it may only last a few days
or weeks but I`m not sure I`m quite as confident as he is about
deliberation and more over, if we have to depend on the Shia militias to do
it or if the Iraqi government does.
That maybe saw in siege (ph) for further travel. So, I see this as a
fairly significant and bad development.
DYSON: Well, beyond Ramadi, will other key cities in Iraq be at risk?
O`HANLEN: You know, it`s not that far from Baghdad as your correspondent
just pointed out. And I don`t mean to suggest that forces are going to
march out of Ramadi and take Baghdad.
Again you folks, accurately described the size of the ISIL forces not very
big but you could have suicide bombers going from Ramadi into Baghdad.
They already do and they have other ways of getting there but, you know,
that`s one reason why this is significant.
Also, we have some major tribal allies that we would like to see working
with the Iraqi government and with us, are going to be either broken apart
or many of the members killed. And you`ve already know that maybe several
hundred had been executed since ISIL took over.
And so, you know, Ramadi doesn`t have a lot of oil. It`s not really on the
way, there are too many places except to other cities in Anbar province.
So I`m not sure that I see it as significant in any greater sense than
that, but it has some proximity to Baghdad, it`s symbolic. It`s one of
Iraq -- its 8 or 10 largest cities. A lot of our allies are there and
they`re probably being a dispersed or killed.
This is not a good week in Iraq, it`s a much better week as you point out
DYSON: Sure, is the death of Abu Sayyaf a blow to ISIS and their
operations or similar to what happened with al-Qaeda, they`d already been
franchise to such a broad degree that killing a few operatives of the ranks
did not discourage them at the lower rank so to speak.
O`HANLON: Well that`s exactly the right question. And you put the
question better than I can give any answer, because we usually just can`t
say in this sort of situations. Regrettably, ISIL is big enough now but
I`d be surprise if it`s number 3, or 4, or 5 guy, you know, the killing of
him made a huge difference.
On the other hand, it`s got to create a little bit of doubt among the
followers that they could be next, that the United States has now broken an
important threshold and is willing to use its special forces in its way.
And so you could start to see the beginning of a shift to momentum
especially if we are willing to go beyond that one raid and do other things
And then of itself, it`s it makes for a better week of news in Syria that
we`ve had in a long time but I`m not sure it`s going to be a major turning
DYSON: All right. Michael O`Hanlon, thank you for joining us here
O`HANLON: My pleasure, thank you.
DYSON: Still ahead, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse joins me on his climate
change crusade and more.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks gained ground, the Dow climbs 26 points to close in a new high, the
S&P add 6 that finished in another record as well, the NASDAQ is up by 30
Apple ended higher after billionaire investor Carl Icahn said the value of
the stock had $240 a share. They also called that the company to buy more
And Home Builder Sentiments fell this month and what`s typically a busy
time for the real estate market. Economist are expecting more optimism to
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
DYSON: A mass of section of Antarctica`s ice shelf is hanging on by a
According to a new study from NASA, the ice called Larsen B could
disintegrate completely by 2020. Scientists say the collapse will
undoubtedly contribute to the global sea level rise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-thirds of it collapsed in less than six weeks. In
the intervening period between 2002 and now, the remaining part of Larsen B
has also been weakening very, very quickly. We expect it will not last for
more than a few years to come
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: The Larsen B ice shelf lasted for 10,000 years but beginning to
shatter 13 years ago. In some areas, glaciers on the shelf have already
thin by 72 feet.
The science is clear, climate change is altering our environment at an
alarming rate. Over the next few years, an entire ice shelf will collapse
before scientist eyes, but lawmakers are still dragging their feet on
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: The government can`t change the weather. I
said that in the speech. You know, we can pass a bunch of laws that will
destroy our economy, but it isn`t going to change the weather.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: Today, the global warming alarmists are the
equivalent of the flat-earthers.
SEN. JIM INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: Global warming is not taking place. It`s
kind of laughable right now with all the records that are being sent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: One Senator is trying to wake his colleagues up, no matter how long
it takes. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse is led the chart on climate
intervention since 2012, when it began his "Time to Wake Up" series.
Today will mark his 100 floor speech.
Joining me now is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. We`re
catching him just before he sets off the marked his 100th speech. Thanks
for joining us, Senator, here today.
SEN SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D) RHODE ISLAND: Thank you Michael. Good to be
DYSON: What is your response to this news about the mammoth ice shelf
WHITEHOUSE: It`s just yet another signal that the earth is sending us
whether you go to the Tide Gauge and Naval Station Newport, or go out to
the forests that have been desamidated by pine beetles in Idaho, in
Montana, or you go to the droughts in Arizona in California. You can go
virtually every place in the country, you see these changes beginning to
This big ice move is significant because it may accelerate the face of land
base ice moving into the ocean which will raise sea levels even more
DYSON: So, Senator, did you imagine when you began your series that your
"wake up" series would go on this long, 100 speeches now?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, with a pretty dark time when we started that, there were
-- it`s really not a lot action of climate, not a lot of talk about climate
change or either. So yeah, I figured out it`s going to be at this awhile.
DYSON: Well, has the conversation change since you started these series.
Do you think you have an ally higher up so to speak and do you think you
have more allies among your fellow Senators?
WHITEHOUSE: Yeah. I think I have a big ally higher up and the President
Obama, the White House is completely revived on this issue, the work that
they were doing internationally, the work that they are doing on the power
plant rule has been really significant and really made a big difference.
What I`m hearing what`s interesting is that, a lot of my colleagues, my
Republican colleagues in the senate are starting to say, "Hey, Sheldon, I
got to get right on this issue or, you know, our party has to get right on
this issue. We can`t keep doing this denial non-sense or even our country
has to lead. We can`t be drag back by the fossil fuel industry".
None of them want to say it publicly because the fossil fuel industry has
some really big political artillery. Thanks to Citizens United and they`ve
made very clear that they`re going to punish anybody who crosses them. But
the pressure is building among Republican Senators for a jailbreak out from
the control the fossil fuel industry on this issue and when it happens, it
will happen very fast I think.
DYSON: Well, here`s one notable resistor. What`s your response to Senator
Ted Cruz saying so-called global warming alarmists are flat-earthers?
WHITEHOUSE: It`s a wonderful technique of rhetoric were you accused your
opponent of being exactly who you are. So that the conversation looks like
a tie and people tune it out. But surely, every single major American
scientific society says that this is real. The scientists at NASA say that
this is real. Every single one of our military services says that this is
real. I`d say that flat-earth shoe is on the other foot.
DYSON: Right. . So do you think we need another natural disaster on the
scale of Katrina before this nation wakes up and understand that something
is a miss here and that we`ve got to take dramatic action?
WHITEHOUSE: I think there is enough going on locally in small places
around the country whether it`s ski resort owner who is worried about
whether there will be snow or a fisherman who is watching us touched move
away from where it always was or a farmer who is kicking at a parch field
and wants to know where the rain went.
A lot of people are starting to have a second look at this. And so I think
optimistically perhaps but I think that we`re going to see a big move on
the Republican Party between now and November of 2016.
I don`t think they can send a presidential candidate before a general
election electorate in November of 2016 who isn`t serious about climate
change. And once the presidential candidate has made that move then, I
think the party is going to follow and a lot of Senators will want to jump
at the point too.
DYSON: Wow. Well, from your mouth too, at least the voters ears if not
WHITEHOUSE: Yeah. I know.
DYSON: So with climate issues and Keystone pipeline debate play a big
role, do you think in the 2016 election because you see if they can`t stand
there, in honesty, without having addressed this issue, will those be the
instruments that they use?
WHITEHOUSE: Yeah. I think that they will. I`m not sure the Keystone
would still be a big deal then but climate I think will be. Because if
you`re a local voter and you`re seeing a real change in your state whether
it`s on the farms or along the coast, and you`re seeing a Representative or
a Senator who refuses to address at any kind of sensible way. And at the
same time, you`re seeing that Senator or Representative taking buckets of
money from the big fossil fuel industry and all their front organizations,
that`s a tough combination.
Now, you got somebody who is ignoring the folks at home because out of
state money and politics as usual. Even a climate change isn`t your
personal tough issue, you expect your Representatives to listen to your
state, and if they are not listening any longer because they`re tied up in
the fossil fuel denial machine, I think that`s a real danger for
Republicans who haven`t gotten right by 2016.
DYSON: All right. Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you so much, my friend.
WHITEHOUSE: Thank you.
DYSON: Still to come, Jeb Bush commits to his stand against same-sex
marriage. We`ll have the details ahead.
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
In tonight`s Two-minute Drill, Beanball.
During Saturday`s Pac-12 matchup between Washington State and Arizona
State, Washington pitcher Layne Bruner`s pitch got a little too close for
Arizona outfielder John Seawall got beaned, but still managed to make a
great play. He caught the ball with his arm and flipped it back to Bruner
before heading off the first base. Arizona could go on to win the game in
extra innings and he did.
And stakes are getting higher on the hard court.
The conference final matchups are set. The Houston Rockets battled back
from a three games to one deficit in their series against the L.A Clippers?
They kept off their run last night with 113-100 win over L.A. to move on to
the Western Conference Finals. Now, they face the Golden State Warriors
who went off for a regular season matchups against the Rockets. That
series tips-off on Tuesday.
The Eastern Conference Finals kick-off on Wednesday as the Atlanta Hawks
which beat my Washington Wizards, we should have won a John Wall been
healthy, we would have prevailed I`m sure.
The Hawks take on the Cleveland Cavaliers. It`s the Hawks first trip to
the Conference Finals since 1971.
Stick around. There is lot more coming up on the Ed Show after this.
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
The Supreme Court is expected to rule next month on the constitutionality
of same-sex marriage.
Court observers and justices have handed that the court is likely to expand
marriage rights, which has left evangelical conservatives desperate a
champion of traditional marriage.
One likely 2016 Republican hopeful has come out to say faith-based
opposition to same-sex marriage should continue regardless of how the
Supreme Court rules.
On Sunday, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush hardened his stands against
same-sex marriage in an interview with the Christian broadcasting network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE 2016: I think, traditional marriage is a
sacrament. It`s talking about being formed by one`s faith, it`s at the
core of the Catholic faith and to imagine how we are going to succeed in
our country unless we have committed family life, a child-centered family
system is hard to imagine.
So, irrespective of the Supreme Court ruling because they are going to
decide whatever they decide, I don`t know what they are going to do, we
need to be stalwart supporters of traditional marriage.
A big country, a tolerant country ought to be able to figure out the
difference between discriminating against someone because of their sexual
orientation and not forcing someone to participate in a wedding that they
find goes against their moral beliefs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Joining me now is Sirius XM Radio Host John Fugelsang and Reverend
Barry Lynn, Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church
Reverend Lynn, what do you make of Jeb Bush`s comments here? It seems that
he is kind of doing do-si-do and (inaudible) around -- in a back and forth
row on this question. He had one opinion a couple of three months ago, now
he`s got another one.
REVEREND BARRY LYNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICANS UNITED: I think all of
these candidates in the Republican ticket are looking desperately to find a
way to out conservative their other candidates. In other words, we have
three candidates in the race now, Michael, who have already said God told
them to run. I mean, it started with Ted Cruz and then, Ben Carson, and
then, we also learned that Mike Huckabee is saying -- he said God can in
fact be the person who overturns Supreme Court decision.
What`s happening today with Jeb Bush, I think, is interesting. He says,
traditional marriage is a sacrament. He is using a very religious word.
What most of the folks that are interested in having marriage ceremonies
who are same-sex couples want is sometimes they want a religious ceremony,
sometimes they want to appear secular service. Anyway you look at it,
there -- the principle participants in these weddings. When somebody says
I`m not going to cater pizza as the people at Memories Pizza in Indiana
said a few weeks ago, "We`re not catering slices of pizza to a gay
Let`s get over the fact that most people would not have pizza at their
wedding but what in the world, what in the world would possibly make them
participants in a wedding. A guy who sets up chairs is not a participant.
I officiated two or three weddings every year, I`m a participant. The
bride and a bride, the bride and a groom, they`re participants. A guy who
delivers food, I`m sorry, he or she is not a participant in any meaningful
way in that ceremony.
Jeb Bush apparently thinks they are.
DYSON: Especially, if they don`t bring the pepperoni. So, Bush
essentially says that tolerant country would allow people of faith, John
Fugelsang, to discriminate against same-sex couples. How do you figure
that logic out?
JOHN FUGELSANG, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, I mean, Reverend Barry is
correct, Mike, as usually he is. Jeb Bush has flipped like a crack house
mattress (ph) yet again. And, you know, at this point, he is now to the
right of Mike Pence on this because Mike Pence already said that his
state`s law in Indiana needed to be fixed.
By the way, Reverend Barry, I don`t know any self-respecting gay couple
that wants pizza catering their wedding but to which is own. What`s most
troubling about this is not a Jeb Bush is telling, an evangelical based,
what he thinks they want to hear. Although I think most conservative
Christians don`t have these bigoted hang-ups against gay marriage. I think
some of them that might be uncomfortable with it, but most of them follow
the teachings of Christ.
What really bothers me is not the bigots, haters going to hate and it`s not
politicians like Jeb Bush, they`re going to create (inaudible) anywhere
they can. It`s the media.
I`m really sick and tired of the media, not stepping up and challenging
this notion that homophobia is the de facto Christian position. Jesus
never said a thing about gay people. He said, you`re suppose to love
everyone and if you are Christian, then, you`re suppose to celebrate love
and support people not do this sort of very unchrist-like (ph), nasty
discrimination towards them.
And really, I`m getting sick and tired of my culture assuming that if
you`re a Christian, you must be a homophobe and that`s OK. Its one thing
if you are opposing, say go into war, it`s a consciences objector for
religious reasons. That something Jesus actually talked about.
But if you`re going to use religious camouflage to cover up your own hang-
ups then you got to prove your religion actually states that. And let me
tell you, Jeb Bush doesn`t follow the book of Leviticus and Hebrews as (ph)
LYNN: Yup. And you don`t...
DYSON: You go on -- you have to go on, Reverend Lynn.
LYNN: Yeah. I mean, the point is the right-wing in this country
particularly tries to prove text everything from selectively reading of the
Bible. You know, the book, John`s right, there`s nothing about gay
marriage in the Christian Bible. There`s nothing about abortion in the
Christian Bible or any Hebrew scriptures. There`s no question about that
But when it comes to a lot of other moral issues, the right is not willing
ever to accept the possibility that Christians can have differing view
points. Most Bible scholars today would tell you there is no literal
reading of the Bible that can in fact be proven to be correct. But these
guys come out and say everything possible.
And they are speaking in apocalyptic terms about this decision likely to
come on June 30th. And then they think if marriage equality will be up --
they`re going to find new ways. They`re going to try to get the federal
courts out of the business of considering anything about marriage.
LYNN: They are going to try to pass more and more refusal laws allowing
this, the caterer or the photographer not to service any same-sex wedding.
That`s what they`re going to try to do. They want to hurt the gay
FUGELSANG: Well, I don`t think it sort of malice (ph) Reverend Barry
respectfully. I think, they`re doing it just to raise money off of
gullible mean Christians who think that the talking snake was literal but
Jesus is saying love your enemies so just can be in all metaphorical.
DYSON: Well, look, John, to give backing on that...
DYSON: ... so to speak. This kind of rhetoric appeals to evangelical
conservatives who already vote Republican. So how is this going to play
with independence because it certainly not going to game the many more
followers on the far right?
FUGELSANG: Not in general but, you know, the clown car of the campaign is
become a clown win of bagel (ph). Lindsey Graham is going to run?
I mean, they got to get attention anyway they can. Jeb already knows he
has no shot at winning Iowa because the Tea Party`s never going to accept
him. And I think a lot of mainstream Republicans who don`t suffer from
amnesia won`t be accepting them neither, so this is a pondering guy,
pondering for a presidential election that is never going to go anywhere.
DYSON: Sure, so very briefly, in a minute we have left, what should we
expect on the campaign trail for Republicans like Jeb Bush if the Supreme
Court rules to expand marriage rights, Reverend Lynn?
LYNN: Yeah. I think, what`s going to happen is legislative solution that
may or may not even be constitutional. The idea that you can take an
entire topic and say, "Oh, the courts, the federal courts have no
jurisdiction over this", I think, that`s unconstitutional. It`s been tried
before about matters like school prayer. It`s never gained any traction.
I don`t think it will gain any traction but you can better believe that
this is what they`re going to force, Republicans and Democrats to talk
DYSON: All right. Reverend Barry Lynn, Bishop John Fugelsang, thanks for
your time tonight.
FUGELSANG: Thank you.
DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton, starts right now.
He ain`t no false prophet. He`s the real deal.
Good evening, Rev.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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