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PoliticsNation, Monday, May 18th, 2015

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Date: May 18, 2015
Guest: Jay Dobyns, Joan Walsh, Dana Milbank, Emanuel Cleaver, Marq
Claxton, Mika Brzezinski

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Dr. Dyson. Thanks to you
for tuning in.

Developing news tonight, the intensifying fight against ISIS and renewed
political questions over the Iraq war. This weekend, ISIS fighters
captured the city of Ramadi, the capital of Iraq`s largest province.
Likely killing up to 500 people and delivering a serious blow to the
Iraqi government.

The fall of Ramadi coming just days after U.S. special forces conducted
a ground raid in Syria, killing a senior ISIS leader. The rise of ISIS
is a very real consequence from the U.S. invasion of Iraq. But 12 years
later, Republicans are still scrambling to answer questions about the
war, the latest, Senator Marco Rubio.


CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Six weeks ago, it made sense to invade
Iraq in 2003. Now you say it was a mistake.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Two different questions. It was not a
mistake. The president based on, this is way the real world works. The
president, based on the information that was provided --

WALLACE: But you were saying based on the information --

RUBIO: Look.

WALLACE: He was saying based on what we know now.

RUBIO: Well, based on what we know now, a lot of things. Based on what
we know now I wouldn`t have thought Manny Pacquiao would beat -- in

WALLACE: Was it a mistake?

RUBIO: It was not a mistake for the president to go in because at the
time, he was --


WALLACE: I`m asking you --

RUBIO: In height sight (ph). Yes, the world is a better place because
Saddam Hussein is not there. But I don`t understand the question you`re

WALLACE: I`m asking you, knowing, as we sit here in 2015.

RUBIO: But that`s not the way a president talks. A president cannot
make decision on what someone might know in the future.

WALLACE: Was it a mistake? On a judge, what I am asking you. Was it a

RUBIO: It was not a mistake for the president to go in to Iraq based on
the information he was provided as president.


SHARPTON: I didn`t think anyone could struggle with those questions
more than Jeb Bush. But Senator Rubio is giving him a run for his
money. And he wasn`t the only 2016 hopeful defending former President
Bush this weekend.


GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: I did stand up and defend the
president, President Bush (INAUDIBLE). I think any president,
regardless of party, probably would have made a similar decision at what
President Bush did at the time with the information he had available.


SHARPTON: Actually, we`ve got a president right now who said he
wouldn`t have made that decision. But if Republicans are having a hard
time figuring out what they would have done about the Middle East a
decade ago, how will they deal with the situation there today? The
GOP`s supposed front runner is struggling to explain where he would
break from his brother`s legacy on Iraq or anywhere else.


JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Some of you may know that W is
my brother. I`m proud of that too whether people don`t like that or
not, they`re just going to have to get used to it.


SHARPTON: We`re getting used to it. But that may not be a good thing
for Jeb Bush or the GOP.

Joining me now is Dana Milbank of the "Washington Post" and Joan Walsh
of Thank you both for being here.

DANA MILBANK, WASHINGTON POST: Good evening, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Dana, the challenges in the Middle East are not hypothetical.
So how concerning is that it these presidential hopefuls seem to be
lost? And by the way, you at the "Washington Post," you all do fact
collection. You might want to tell the Senator, Pacquiao didn`t win the
fight but that`s an aside.

MILBANK: And he couldn`t remember who was in the fight either. But
look, I think knowing what we know now, to coin a phrase, I think all
the Republican candidates would have brushed up on this answer a long
time ago and had something ready to go which for what is a very obvious
question. And there is an obvious answer.

Of course in retro perfect it was a mistake. That doesn`t mean that
given what they knew at the time it was a mistake. But it certainly
means in retrospect it was a mistake. Lindsey Graham, the most hawkish
one in the field this morning was saying, yes, knowing what we know now,
if he were president, he would have done things differently. Any
rational person would have done things differently in that circumstance.

But it sort of shows, I think, the way the conservatives are competing
for the party base. They`re afraid to do anything that might move them
even a millimeter to the left of some other guy. And that includes not
acknowledging an obvious mistake that was made.

SHARPTON: Joan, you wrote today that a lot of the attention has been on
how badly prepared Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio were for these questions.
You went on to say, quote, "the problems for the two are deeper than
performance. Neither can say clearly that the war was a mistake because
they remain close to the neo cons in their world view and the neo cons
don`t believe it was a mistake." Is this a place the Republicans want
to be, I mean, defending the Iraq war in 2016?

JOAN WALSH, SLON.COM: Yes, some of them. They don`t want to be there
because it is indefensible but some of them have to be someplace around
there. That is where the neo cons are. I mean, Marco Rubio got four
Pinocchios from Dana`s paper today from claiming that President George
Bush said it was a mistake. He did not. He said it was a noble goal.
Yes, mistakes were made. Everybody loves that, mistakes were made.

But when we say, when we clod in this is amnesia and say the only reason
they went to war is because they really thought he had WMD but he
didn`t, we are colluding in a falsehood. That`s not why a lot of the
leading architect of the war decided to go to war, Reverend Al. They
were fixing the intelligence to lead to a policy outcome they had
already chosen.

So I am very uncomfortable. It is great we can dance around and say
they`re terrible politicians which they are. But there is a terrible
falsehood at the heart of this whole conference (ph).

SHARPTON: And you know, it is interesting that, Dana, so few candidates
want to criticize the decision to go to war. Because a recent poll
found among Republicans, among Republicans, 76 percent said history will
judge the Iraq war as a failure, 76 percent for Senate Republican
voters. So why is it so hard for Jeb Bush and the others to say it?

MILBANK: Well, it is a little bit hard to understand because it is not
necessarily your typical vote or your typical Republican. It is the
most extreme within the party who are going to be driving the
conversation here.

But, you know, look. It is a very fragmented party. You certainly have
Rand Paul who is a viable candidate saying very plainly up front that
the reason we`re having so much chaos in that region today is because of
the decision to go to war in Iraq a dozen years ago, so, you know.

And I think Joan is right about the circumstances at the time in 2003.
There was plenty of reason to have doubts back then. And I and others
at my paper and other journalists were writing questions about the
intelligence way back then. That doesn`t mean it was a slam-dunk not to
go to war.

SHARPTON: I mean, I remember we were marching in 2003. I ran for
president in the early stages of 2003 against that.

But Joan, the drive home of your point, because I think it is a very,
very important point. It is not that Jeb Bush and Rubio are not good
politicians. They`re very good politicians. They make blunders. Is
there in this the type because of the world view of the neo cons
controlling it. And I think if we have missed the point that could
define Republican party 2016, if we just act like they can`t answer
questions. They`re very good politicians.

WALSH: Well, reasonably good. But this is not about that.

SHARPTON: Well, I mean, they are skillful, let`s face it.

WALSH: They are skillful. They could master this question if it was
really as easy as we`re all acting like it is. But it is not easy for
them because of what they truly believe about what went on in the Middle
East and Iraq.

SHARPTON: Yes, I think you`re right. And in an interview today, Dana,
with MSNBC`s Patrick Murphy, house democratic leader Nancy Pelosi talked
about the vote authorizing force in Iraq. Watch this.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MAJORITY LEADER: At the time when we were taking
vote, I was a senior democrat. I had been the senior democrat on the
intelligence committee. My statement at the time was, the intelligence
does not support the threat. So the terminology, knowing what we know
now --no, knowing what we knew then, there was no -- the intelligence
did not support the threat.


SHARPTON: So Dana, Hillary Clinton has been criticized for not taking
questions from the press. At this point, is that helping her or hurting

MILBANK: Well, on this issue perhaps it is helping her because, you
know, she was on a different side of the issue from where you were and
where Nancy Pelosi was and where the democratic base wants her to be
right now.

So I think Hillary Clinton`s reluctance to open up the questions in
general is a problem for her and for the Democrats. But on this one, it
is a very obvious decision to make because she can`t say what you just
said that you were --.

SHARPTON: That`s why I raised Hillary Clinton.

MILBANK: Right. Knowing what we know now, Reverend, we should have
elected you president, we would not be in this mess.

SHARPTON: I second that nomination. But Joan, I think that the reason
I raise this, this inevitably would have come up to Hillary if she had
to ask a question.

WALSH: Yes. But I think she could answer it. I mean, she has said
that her vote was a mistake even at the time. So, you know, I don`t
think she would stumble the way these guys are stumbling.

SHARPTON: Yes. And John Kerry too for that matter.

WALSH: Right.

SHARPTON: You can see the full interview with speaker Nancy Pelosi. It
will air Sunday at 1:00 p.m. right here on MSNBC. Hillary Clinton`s
Iraq vote was a huge issue in 2008. How could she do better in some of
the things we`re going to see.

Joan Walsh, Dana Milbank, thank you for your time tonight.

WALSH: Thank you.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, big news from President Obama on the road in
Camden, New Jersey, talking police reform and banning some military
style equipment for police forces.


can sometimes give people a feeling like there`s an occupying force as
opposed to a force that`s part of the community that`s protecting them
and serving them.


SHARPTON: Also, tonight, blood bath in Waco. A Texas crime scene that
looks more like a Hollywood crime scene, up to 170 face murder-related
charges after a biker gang shootout.

And can a plane be hacked in the air? A computer expert tells the FBI,
he did it from his seat and made the plane fly sideways. It is all
coming up ahead. Please stay with us.


SHARPTON: Guess who is now on twitter? President Obama. He joined
this morning with the handle at Potus. And his first tweet post a
little funny, his late arrival to the twitter first. Hello, twitter.
It`s Barack. Really. Six years in, they`re finally giving me my own

And take a look at his back ground image. That`s the president marching
with John Lewis, me and other civil rights leaders in Selma for the 50th
anniversary. The White House released this video of his fist tweet
earlier today.


OBAMA: There you go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks good. It`s out there.

OBAMA: It`s out there, baby, all the tweets.


SHARPTON: The first lady`s response? It`s about time, Potus. Former
President Clinton tweeted that at the president, too. Welcome to
twitter, Potus. One question, does that user name stay with the office?
#askingforafriend. The president responded, good question, Bill
Clinton. The handle comes with the house. Know anyone interested in in

It`s no secret President Obama knows his way around technology. After
all, he is the first president to use a blackberry. But if I may, I
have a recommendation. Mr. President, I took a look at the people
you`re following and I think there`s an account missing. You can follow
us too @politicsnation or like us on facebook.


SHARPTON: Developing tonight, police are working right now to collect
all the evidence they can find from a Texas biker gang blood bath. Cell
phone video captured the all-out brawl Sunday afternoon in Waco that
killed nine people. It started inside a bar bathroom and spilled into
the parking lot putting an entire community in danger. Panicked
employees and customers had to hide in the restaurant`s freezer. The
whole thing ended with a shoot-out between five biker gangs and police.

Now officers have 170 people in jail, charged with engaging in organized
crime in this capital murder case. They`re each being held on $1
million bond and Waco police warn this could happen anywhere.


today. This could happen in any state, any town across our United
States. There`s a criminal element across our world, unfortunately.
Unfortunately for us, they chose to be here on a Sunday in Waco, Texas.
And involve their self in criminal activity and obviously murder with
nine individuals being killed.


SHARPTON: Joining me now are MSNBC law enforcement analyst Jim
Cavanaugh and Jay Dobyns, former ATF agent who was the first ever law
enforcement officer to infiltrate the hell`s angels biker gang. He also
is the author of "No Angel, my harrowing undercover journey to the inner
circle of the hell`s angels. Thank you for being here.



SHARPTON: Jay, you`ve been on the inside. What can you tell us about
the culture of these biker gangs?

DOBYNS: Biker gangs are no different than any other gang. They
represent their colors. They represent their territory. They`re about
hate. They`re about money. They`re about violence. And whether it
biker gangs or traditional street gangs, they held to same things dear.

SHARPTON: Now what do you think happened here? I mean, what actually
do you think is someone that knows their culture really made this
happen? I mean, this seems like such a big, just the size of the crime
is so big.

DOBYNS: Well, I think what is not being reported is that this was a
coalition meeting. It was a meeting of biker gangs, clubs in the Waco
area. The meeting was being run or organized, administered by the
bandidos who claim Texas as their sovereign territory. And other gangs
are there with their gang colors, formatted in a way that the bandidos
didn`t like. And you know what? With Crips and bloods, red and blue,
the same thing happens in biker gangs. With the way look and the way
you dress is sometimes all it takes to set off a riot.

SHARPTON: You mention the bandidos. Tell us about the bandidos. What
can you tell us about the bandidos gangs?

DOBYNS: They`re an international crime syndicate, very violent, very
vicious in their violence worldwide. They`re a very powerful nasty
rough group of boys.

SHARPTON: Jim, the sheer size as I said of this crime and the
investigation is mind boggling. So many people are under arrest. The
latest number from police is 170. The crime scene spans an entire
parking lot. And that parking lot has more than 100 motorcycles and at
least 50 other vehicles officers have to check out. If you`re in charge
here, how do you go about processing that much evidence?

CAVANAUGH: Well, Rev., it is going to be very difficult. And let me
say hello to Jay who I haven`t seen in many years and we`re old
colleagues. You know, Jay infiltrated the hell`s angels which is no
small feat. Let me tell you. And I started working on the biker gangs
in 1974. He got into the hell`s angels. Very few agents and law
enforcement officers have penetrated these groups like he did. It is
very dangerous work.

Now, back to the crime scene. It is a huge scene. And what is going to
happen, ATF, the state troopers, the Waco police, they`re going to
forensically map it. They`re going to photograph it, they are going to
get it so they can re-create in it court. Key is going to be video from
the building, from the twin peaks or nearby restaurant so they can see
who the trigger pullers are because they have 170 people charged with
organized criminal activity related to capital murder.

And Jay can tell you, the bandidos are going to roll out some high
priced attorneys. They are going to fight this vigorously. It is going
to be hard to keep these charges intact without good solid proof. And
don`t be surprised if at least the top echelons and ranking members of
the bandidos are making that million-dollar bail. I would predict that
these gang members are already consolidating money to get some of the
top ranking bandido leaders if they are captured out of jail pretty

SHARPTON: They have that much money, Jay?

DOBYNS: They do. You know, that kind of money to these international
crime syndicates, it is the equivalent of a lost French fry in the
bottom of a happy meal bag. They have money. They will fund their way
out of this.

SHARPTON: Now, police say they have heavy security around the
restaurant and the city. Listen to this.


SWANTON: What are we doing to protect everybody here? Layers of
protection. Numerous officers here. Yes, there was a grown light put
out on law enforcement as our understanding from last night. We`re
aware of that threat and we have the appropriate response if we have to
fight them.


SHARPTON: Jay, what do you expect to see in the aftermath of all of

DOBYNS: I think it will get worse before it gets better. I think these
gangs are high on testosterone. They`re not akin to backing down from
each other. And the funerals for these dead gang members, highly
volatile situations, very high emotions, and not only emotions for the
morning gang members, but also, prime locations to attack again. It has
been done before. It will be done again.

SHARPTON: So is that what you mean when you say that it can get worse?
Define what you mean when you say it can get worse.

DOBYNS: These gangs won`t lay down after this event. You are not going
to spill that much blood and then have people shake hands or turn their
backs and walk away. They`re going to be looking for payback. These
guys specialize in violence and intimidation. And they don`t like to be
intimidated. It is going to get worse.

SHARPTON: Wow, that`s scary, but we certainly pray for peace.

Jim, let me ask you this quickly. The bar where this happened, Twin
Peaks, is a franchise. Police say it is not cooperating and its
corporate office released this statement. Unfortunately the management
team of the franchised restaurant in Waco chose to ignore the warnings
and advice from both the police and our company. We will not tolerate
the actions of this relatively new franchise and are immediately
revoking their franchise agreement.

Jim, how do you handle a business like this when you`re in the field?

CAVANAUGH: Well, you know, the police went to the management and they
warned them. They asked them not to let people in the club who they
thought were, you know, are going harm others, who were known to the
police. And then operators can do that. They can prohibit people from
wearing their colors, flying their colors, their insignia on the back.
That`s how it happens mostly at, you know, bike rallies, or they are
throwing a bike week where certain bars and restaurants can say you
can`t fly the colors inside the bar. And they try to keep their
conflict were trying to work with the restaurant. The state liquor
board revoked their license. One comment to build on what he was
saying. The traditional outlaw motorcycle gang funeral has hundreds of
bikers gathered together who are at the gravesite, pull out their guns
and shoot in the air. It is standard practice. It has been that way
for 40 years and it really can be a very violent and volatile beginning
of something that happened.

SHARPTON: Jim Cavanagh, Jay Dobyns, thank you both for your time

Straight ahead, a computer expert`s chilling complaint that he hacked a
plane`s controls. Is that really possible?

Plus, the militarization of police in America. The pictures we`ve seen
sparked a national debate. And today, President Obama announced may
just have to roll it back. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Now, to developing news on a major policing issue. The
military equipment used by departments around the country. Today in
Camden, New Jersey, President Obama announced the federal government
will no longer provide some types of military style equipment to local
police department. It is an issue that attracted national attention in
Ferguson, igniting calls for change.


militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there`s an
occupying force as opposed to a force that is part of the community
that`s protecting them and serving them, can alienate and intimidate
local residents and send the wrong message. So we are going to prohibit
some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for
local police departments.


SHARPTON: It`s a recommendation that comes straight from the
president`s 21st century policing task force report which was also
released today. Among the items the federal government will no longer
help police fund, tracked armored vehicles, high-caliber firearms and
ammunition, powerful grenade launchers and camouflage uniforms. Some of
those tools were on display in Ferguson, given to the local police
through federal programs. Today`s announcement won`t erase these images
but could help the beginning of healing between police and the
communities they serve.

Joining me now is Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, a democrat for Missouri
who pushed for the demilitarization of local police departments and Marq
Claxton, former New York police officer and director of Black Law
Enforcement Alliance. Thank you both for being here.

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: Good to be here, Reverend.


SHARPTON: Congressman, what is your reaction to the President`s
announcement today?

CLEAVER: I`m thrilled. And you used the operative word healing, I
can`t tell you, well, you would understand as perhaps better than most.
That the young people in Ferguson needed some signs that their
complaints were receiving an ear. And the President did just that. He
said, we hear you. And I`ve been on the streets when that kind of thing
happened. It was ugly. It looked un-American. And I think the
President has taken some great steps here. We probably need to codify
it so that a future president can`t change it. It is an executive
order. It is the right thing to do. Chuck Hagel before he left, the
congressman -- I met with him, he said that he thought the program had
gotten out of control. This 1033 program. That`s a day, it`s a day
that we can point to with young African-Americans and Latinos saying
people do in fact listen to you.

SHARPTON: And I think Marq that that was something that definitely came
out of Ferguson. All of us that were involved were trying to say these
young people were raising concerns and everybody had when they started
seeing this kind of ammunition and kind of militarized kind of

CLAXTON: Yes. Definitely. I mean, it is a substance that have move on
the part of the President. This administration because it accomplish
just two things. One thing it does is instill some public confidence in
law enforcement by really hearing as Congress indicated, by responding
to the death which has been expressed by the community, by the
individuals like yourself who has been advocating on reform ideas, et
cetera. And that`s promoting good community based policing clerk.
Because perception is reality and the people feel somewhat intimidated
or questioned the need for these types of weapons, it is significant to
respond to it. And then the second and significant part of it for a
special law enforcement is, this action increases. It heightens the
standards of professional standards in law enforcement. So, it is
important to benefit both the community and in policing. Because it
increases professional standards and accountability for the equipment
that they use.

SHARPTON: The federal government, Congressman, spent $18 billion on
programs that provided police military grade tools. Including over
92,000 small arms. Over 44,000 night vision devices. Over 5,000
Humvees. Six hundred and seventeen mine resistant vehicles. And 616
aircraft. These kinds of tools aren`t going to be so readily available
anymore. How much will that change policing?

CLEAVER: Oh, I think it will change it significantly because you won`t
have the small police departments without the financial resources to
train the officers in using the equipment. Using them as the President
said, as an occupying force, patrolling the land that they`ve conquered.
And at the same time, and I think this is extremely important. Cities
like New York, New Jersey, across the state line over in Newark, for
example, they can make special application to get equipment that they
will need because they are the center of a terrorist attack. If
terrorists strike, they probably will want to hit New York. So they`ll
be able to get equipment that they need and deserve that maybe a smaller
community should not even think about getting.

SHARPTON: Now, Marq, the President was in Camden, New Jersey today and
I`m familiar with Camden who has had its issues with police. Still has
some. But they`ve made real effort to make headway and bridging the
divide in the community. Listen to what the President said.


OBAMA: Perhaps most significantly is that the police and residents are
building trust. The approach that the chief has taken in getting them
out of their squad cars into the communities, getting them familiar with
the people that they`re serving. They`re enjoying their jobs more.
Because they feel as if over time, they can have more of an impact and
they`re getting more help from the community. Because the community has
seen them and knows them. Before there`s a crisis. We`re here all the
time and hopefully we can prevent those shootings from happening in the
first place.


SHARPTON: Marq, it sounds simple. But I know growing up here in New
York to know the neighborhood police, they`re out of the car, they
relate to you. I remember the police in my high school, Ralph, he used
to counsel me through my parents` separation and all. I mean, when you
had that kind of what seems simple but it is really a big deal when it
is not there. It is really about building trust between how the
community and police see each other.

CLAXTON: Yes. Absolutely. And you know, what`s fascinating is that,
nowadays we talk about that building these relationships and increasing
community policing and it seems somewhat innovative. You know, I mean,
community policing, community based policing has really been, you know,
the model that everybody should have subscribed to and stayed with
throughout all these years. I think the fact that we have gone away
from that, and moved towards more heavily headed enforcement and
militarized policing. It`s part of the problem. So that which is done
in Camden, and they`re openness to be innovative. In thinking about new
ways to increase community police participation is hugely significant
and perhaps could be modeled elsewhere along with some federal funding
support that they`re receiving.

SHARPTON: Congressman Emanuel Cleaver and Marq Claxton. Thank you for
your time this evening.

CLEAVER: Good to be with you, Reverend.

CLAXTON: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, could a hacker take over a plane`s controls
in the air? The FBI is investigating a chilling claim. And later, who
needs Mayweather and Pacquiao when you have Mitt Romney and Evander
Holyfield? Yes, it really happened. Really? We`ll break it down


SHARPTON: Now to a terrifying claim from a computer security expert.
He is telling the FBI he`s hacked into planes in the air through the
inflight entertainment system, and even took over one of the engines
making the plane fly sideways. Is that even possible? Here`s NBC`s
Kerry Sanders.


CHRIS ROBERTS, HACKER: We`re trying to make the system safe, better and
more secure.

KERRY SANDERS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris Roberts is either a hacker
who has uncovered a dangerous back door that could allow a passenger to
take control of a plane.

ROBERTS: It is definitely possible to manipulate the electronics
through the infield entertainment system.

SANDERS: Or an exaggerator, needlessly scaring the flying public. The
FBI says in a newly public affidavit, Robert claims that he hacked into
a plane`s entertainment system. Up to 20 times. In one case caused one
of the airplane engines to climb resulting in lateral or sideways
movement of the plane. While agents continue to look for evidence of
that, the FBI issued a statement to NBC News late Sunday. There is no
credible information to suggest an airplane`s flight control system can
be accessed or manipulated from its inflight entertainment system.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Jay Rollins, a retired American Airlines
captain and a former U.S. Naval aviator. Jay, United Airlines responded
today, quote, "We will continue to cooperate with the FBI on its
investigation. But our internal review with our aircraft manufacturer
partners makes us confident that these claim are unfounded." So, Jay,
do you think this is possible? Is it possible?

JAY ROLLINS, RETIRED AIRLINE CAPTAIN: I think there is concern that it
may be possible. But there isn`t anything that has occurred to this
point that I`m aware of that proves that it can be done. There is a
little bit of worry because a newer aircraft use as fly by wire system
which is all electronic. So if someone were able to hack into the
electronics, presumably they could then fly the plane. But older
aircraft when you disconnect the auto pilot have a totally manual
control so that isn`t really feasible.

SHARPTON: What kind of security do planes have to keep something like
this from happening?

ROLLINS: Well, Boeing has been very quiet about exactly the situation
is. Whether they have totally different electronics that are not
interconnected or if they`re using some sort of an electronic software,
a fire wall if you will that keeps them apart. And that could be
important. But the FAA has been worried enough about it that they
actually did put out an air worthiness directive some year or two ago
that addressed this very issue.

SHARPTON: I`m out of time. But how long do you think it will take on
investigate this, Jay?

ROLLINS: I think once the FBI goes back and reconstructs what this
individual said and checks that electronic, they`ll be able to debunk it
fairly soon. But it is not something going away either.

SHARPTON: Jay Rollins, thank you for your time tonight.

ROLLINS: You bet. Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the thriller in Salt Lake City. Mitt Romney
versus Evander Holyfield. We`ll break it all down, ahead.


SHARPTON: The fight over equal pay is a huge political pay. It`s an
issue we need to talk about. At the front of that conversation is
MSNBC`S Mika Brzezinski. She`s helping women find their voices in the
workplace. Her know your value conferences are bringing together
everyone from U.S. senators to Hollywood celebrities.


transform themselves from the inside out and really drive this message

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Knowing your value to me
means knowing when to stand up. Knowing when to speak out and knowing
when to fight for yourself and to fight for the people you love.

BROOKE SHIELDS, ACTRESS: People always say, how do you do it? How do
you balance? And I really don`t ever feel like it is balanced.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: Being ambitious is ladylike.
Being strong and strategic is ladylike.


SHARPTON: Along with the conferences, Mika is out with a new book,
"Grow Your Value." Leaving and working to your full potential. I sat
down with her to talk about it earlier today. First, thank you for
being here.

BRZEZINSKI: Thank you for doing this.

SHARPTON: Well, I`m so excited. Because my daughters, everybody is so
excited about the book, grow your value. Now, I remember your last
book, knowing your value. So this is a logical next step.

BRZEZINSKI: This is the sequel. This is the next step. And this is
part of the conversation. We`ve taken this book and we`re adding events
to go with it. We just had our last one in Washington, D.C. on Friday.
And what you get in the book in black and white that you`re to read on
your own to sort of solidify some of these instincts that you should
already have in you mind. We`re also showing to women across America on
stage. We had a fantastic time in Washington on Friday.


BRZEZINSKI: We now have three cities ahead of us. At least three.
Boston, Chicago and Orlando in the fall. We try to keep them intimate.
Five hundred women and really interact. We have to move the room open
to 700. The joy in the room was incredible. We had so much fun with
some great speakers. But my favorite part every time is the grow your
value bonus competition. Where we pick three women who put submissions
in online and you still can for Boston, Chicago and Orlando. Pitching
me. On the iPhone video, on the computer for a minute, why they deserve
a bonus. And it is a very weird experience for most women. We don`t
feel comfortable talking about money for ourselves.


BRZEZINSKI: So, this exercise that`s making this pitch online. I
advocate everybody does. Whether they become a finalist or not. That
act will make you think, how do I put my value into words and how do I
grow it?

SHARPTON: That I think is the most captivating. Because you have four
key pieces of advice. Know your brand --


SHARPTON: Quit people pleasing, learn to press reset, and stop

BRZEZINSKI: And everybody goody. Yep.

SHARPTON: Does that advice come from the experiences, because I know
you talked to a lot of very great women. Does that come from your
interviewing and having dialogue from them?

BRZEZINSKI: It has come from my whole sort of experience with the know
your value process in writing this book and looking for the best advice
for all women. Not just women who are in the marketing industry. What
is your brand? Can you say in 20 seconds or less or a minute or less
what it is that you bring to the table? No matter what you do. Can you
put it into words? Most women, if you asked some of your friends, who
are you? What do you do? What value do you bring to the table? They
have nothing to say. It is not because they don`t bring value to the
table. They feel weird saying it.


BRZEZINSKI: So, we have got to get used to saying it. And so know your
brand. Be able to say, I can certainly tell you my brand in 20 seconds
or less and I do it without missing a beat.

SHARPTON: Out of all the women that you interviewed, I referred some
great famous or whatever. Was there any story that struck you, anything
that stood out in your mind?

BRZEZINSKI: Yes. Well, there are so many. You know, we have a chapter
on relationships. We interviewed the CEO of Topsy (ph), Andrea Newey


BRZEZINSKI: She is an incredibly powerful woman, an incredibly lovely
woman as well. Graceful, articulate, unbelievably intelligent. And
what she`s done with that company. Back in the late 80s, being able to
see the future for it and moving toward healthy food before, you know,
America sort of asking for it. She`s an incredible business woman
obviously. She talks about navigating her family. She said she leaves
her crown in the garage every day. She goes home, she takes the CEO
crown off and she is, I don`t want to use the word subservient because
that has a bad connotation but she changes her role.


BRZEZINSKI: Her power shift when she goes home. And that`s how she`s
made a 35-year marriage work.


BRZEZINSKI: I found that to be really honest, raw and interesting.

SHARPTON: Now, you did a whole chapter on millennial women.

BRZEZINSKI: Yes. They`re different.

SHARPTON: And what specifically do you want millennial women to take
away from the book?

BRZEZINSKI: Well, I think that we often have sold them, you know,
oversold them on our ability to break the glass ceiling. Slow down.
Enjoy the moment, first of all. Your career is going to be long.
Unlike mine which I always felt like it had a shelf life. I was wrong
about that. There`s going to last as long as they want it to. And
therefore work on excellence. And whether you`re bringing coffee or
making copies or doing very low level work or maybe you hate your job.
Learn to do it excellently. Don`t sort of try to jump and ahead just
because a lot of other millennials may have, you know, hit the jackpot
or cracked the code and made millions of dollars. Most of us need to
learn how to do small things right. And that actually can really be a
part of building your brand. Being really good at everything that you

SHARPTON: Mika Brzezinski, thank you for your time. And be sure to
pick up your copy of grow your value in stores now. And meet her on the

BRZEZINSKI: Thank you, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Thank you, Mika.

Straight ahead, Mitt Romney and Evander Holyfield walked into a boxing
ring. No, really, they did. The recap of the thriller in Salt Lake
City is next.


SHARPTON: It was billed as the million-dollar fight. The unlikely duo
of Mitt Romney and five-time Champ Evander Holyfield, squaring off in
the ring for charity. What could possibly go wrong? Inside the ring,
Mitt made it interesting from the start. He connected a left jab. He
has Holyfield going backwards. End of round one. Check it out. Romney
has Holyfield on the ropes. What a combination. Then in round two, the
unexpected. A knockdown.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: And now the former presidential candidate will try to
beat up the body.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Down goes Holyfield!

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Not happy about this at all. The standing eight


SHARPTON: But in the end, the five-time champ was victorious. The two
good sports hugged it out and the real winner was Charity Vision. An
organization that fights blindness worldwide. They raise more than $1
million with this fight. Great job to both men.


SHARPTON: And finally, celebrating 50 years of opportunity. The head
start program is 50 today. Head start has given 32 million low income
children early childhood education, health screenings the nutrition
services. Today the White House released a presidential proclamation to
honor the anniversary. But over the years, it has become a political
football. In their latest budget, republicans threatened to cut funding
and 35,000 children would be cut. And while we celebrate this
milestone, it is fitting we celebrate red nose day on Thursday. You do
something fun to raise money for charities that lift children and young
people out of poverty.

And to honor that effort, the "Today Show" Matt Lauer is currently on a
225 mile bike ride from Boston to New York by bike, to help change
lives. And you can make a difference by supporting Matt on his donation
page. We have linked this donation page to our website. Life is about trying to do for more than
yourself. Your character is measured by if you invest in things and
people and children with no direct benefit insight for yourself.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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