The Ed Show for Thursday, May 21st, 2015
Read the transcript to the Thursday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: May 21, 2015
Guest: Paul Henderson, Jon Tester, Lori Wallach, Larry Cohen, Karen
Desoto, Matt Schlapp, Bob Shrum, Peter Barca, Ruth Conniff
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on tray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We make decisions here to throw people out of work.
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: The D.C. Murder mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manhunt for that suspect in a chilling murder
case in the nation`s capital that has captivated the country.
CHIEF CATHY L. LANIER, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: If anyone sees
this person to assume he`s maybe armed and dangerous.
SCHULTZ: Later, the Clinton e-mails are out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The New York Times has just published 349 pages of e-
mails from Hillary Clinton`s private e-mail account.
HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR 2016: I did not e-mail any
SCHULTZ: And trouble for Scott Walker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Possible corruption going on in Governor Walker`s
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUTLZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.
We are waiting a press conference from Baltimore State`s Attorney Marilyn
Mosby as you`re getting that live shot right now. We`re expecting new
information in the case of Freddie Gray. When it happens we`ll bring it to
But first, movement on Fast-Track and the Trans-Pacific Partnership in the
Senate today. Earlier today the Senate passed a key procedural vote to
move forward of Fast-Track. Authority for the President of United States,
and a vote could come as early as tomorrow.
Fast-Track will then head to the House where its future is more uncertain.
South Dakota Senator John Thune thinks some Republicans are split on the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R) SOUTH DAKOTA: I think we`re going to have most
Republicans voting for it. I think it`s a bigger problem in the House. We
get people -- some in the House, some in the Senate who don`t want to give
this President that authority. We got some how represents states where
trade is still problematic for them politically. So, it`s a combination of
things but overall I think you`ll see a pretty big vote among Republicans.
And I think you`ll see a good number of Democrats who support this as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Thune is right. There are several different camps on the
Republican sides, several different schools of thought. You have those who
support Fast-Tracking TTP and Republicans who are actually opposed to the
issue for all the right reasons. That would jobs.
Then you Republicans who will apposed just about anything just to obstruct
the President of the United States. So this combination could mean a quick
death for Fast-Track in the House.
Meanwhile NAFTA, remember that? NAFTA is causing major problems for Beef
franchisers, and producers, and consumers here in America. Canada and
Mexico are threatening $2 billion in retaliatory tariffs over a country of
origin labeling. Beef currently sold in the United States much have a
label showing where the beef was produced.
The World Trade Organization ruled on Monday, the requirement violates
NAFTA. Now, this has caused an uproar from Democrats and food activist
around the country who say that this demonstrates how free trade deals can
override U.S. law.
On the flip side, House Republicans are working quickly to repeal the
labeling law. That means you could be buying beef from Brazil or Argentina
or Southeast Asia and have no idea where it came from. As Montana Senator
John Tester pointed out, the consumers he says, "They`re going to be seeing
that USDA seal that implies that it`s American meat, and it`s not".
This mess comes at a very bad time for President Obama as he`s pushing the
TPP. Senator Elisabeth Warren has been citing examples after examples,
such origin or labeling suit in her fight against the TTP. She released a
report this week showing United States has a terrible track record on
enforcing labor laws.
Let`s go live now to Baltimore where State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby is
giving us an update on the Freddie Gray new video and death.
MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE`S ATTORNEY: ... these circumstances
surrounding the tragic incident with the death of Freddie Gray. On May 1st
our investigation revealed that we had sufficient probable cost to bring
charges against six police officers.
As our investigation has continued, additional information has been
discovered and as is often the case, during an ongoing investigation
charges can and should be revised based upon the evidence. These past two
weeks my team has been presenting evidence to a grand jury that just today
returned indictments against all six offices for the following offenses.
Officer Caesar Goodson, Jr, second degree depraved heart murder,
involuntary manslaughter, second degree negligent assault manslaughter by
vehicle and gross negligence, manslaughter by vehicle criminal negligence,
misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding safety of a
prisoner, reckless endangerment.
Officer William Porter, involuntary manslaughter, second degree negligent
assault, misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding the
safety of a prisoner and reckless endangerment.
Lt. Brian Rice, involuntary manslaughter, second degree negligent assault,
misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding safety of a
prisoner and in illegal arrest, reckless engagement.
Officer Edward Nero, second degree intentional assault, misconduct in
office for an illegal arrest, misconduct in office for failure to perform a
duty regarding safety of a prisoner and reckless endangerment.
Officer Garrett Miller, second degree intentional assault, misconduct in
office for an illegal arrest, misconduct in office for failure to perform a
duty regarding the safety of a prisoner and reckless endangerment.
Sgt. Alicia White, involuntary manslaughter, second degree negligent
assault, misconduct in office for failure to perform a duty regarding
safety of a prisoner and reckless endangerment.
Now the grand jury has also some probable cause to charge the four
mentioned officers based upon the evidence. These officers who I presumed
innocent until proving guilty are now scheduled to be arraigned on July
2nd. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you all.
SCHULTZ: State`s Attorney Marilyn Mosby at a press conference live in
Joining me now is Joy Reid National Correspondent for MSNBC. So,
sufficient probable cause as the investigation has continued and she`s
announcing that all six officers have been indicted.
JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
SCHULTZ: Let start at the top Joy how did Maryland criminal justice system
works. Is it the grand jury is convened and then the charges come, which
is much different than most states.
REID: Right, you know, every state has their owned process. So, in the
state of Maryland it`s a two-step process. First you have the charges that
were preferred against officers by the prosecutors which we saw on May 1st.
Once those charges are put forward, a grand jury automatically convened,
then the grand jury actually produces the indictment against the officers.
And over the course of that process sometimes as prosecutor Mosby just
said. The charges can actually change somewhat. So we have a set of
charges on what we would need to now look at the charges that we`re put
forward on May 1st and see if there were any differences.
But we have now sees the grand jury largely returned indictment that pretty
much mirror what the officers were charged with by this prosecutor
including the most serious charge which is against Officer Goodson who was
the driver of the van, which is second degree depraved-heart murderer.
That obviously the most serious charged.
The second most serious charge would be against Brian Rice who was the head
of the bike patrol unit, those guys in yellow that we`re seeing on the
screen. The person who was the supervisor of that unit has the second most
serious charges involuntary manslaughter and second degree negligent
assault. And then the charges proceeds from there against the two sets of
First, the bike patrol team, the three officers that you`re seeing on your
screen that actually arrested Freddie Gray and you heard illegal arrest is
now a misconduct charge against those officers. And the second set of
officers who were the ones in the van who interacted with Freddie Gray when
he was on the van.
SCHULTZ: So these charges have been revised and of course Marilyn Mosby
who took some criticizing -- some criticism for being very aggressive when
these arrests were made. All six have been indicted, everything from
assault to misconduct and office who involuntary manslaughter. I mean this
is really serious stuff. Now there`s new video of the arrest.
SCHULTZ: And this is been all part of the investigation that has taken
place. But we haven`t really see -- she didn`t referenced that new video.
She just said new information.
REID: Yeah. And I think that tells us is that the new video and the new
things that have emerged have not altered the fundamental fact that this
prosecutor believes that these officers either by indifference to Freddie
Gray suffering or by arresting him illegally in the first place caused the
death of Freddie Gray, that has not change. There`s been a lot of rumors
that have been flying around. A lot of it I think coming from within the
police department questioning whether or not the charges were appropriate.
And whether or not the prosecutor believes she had sufficient efficient
evidence to prove it because remember a prosecutor is not suppose to bring
charges in a case like this, unless they believe -- have a good faith
believe that they can actually proved and convict on those charges. And
what you`ve essentially heard Marilyn Mosby say is that there was
sufficient evidence. Anything new that`s come forward may have altered a
charge here or there. And just my quick reading and doing notes on it. It
sounds like some of the charges were slightly altered. But the fundamental
SCHULTZ: If I may used the word "Forceful" in her announcement at the
podium just moments ago.
Let`s go to attorney Paul Henderson. Paul, your thoughts on what you heard
from the podium just moments ago from the State`s Attorney of Baltimore
PAUL HENDERSON, LEGAL ANALYST: Ed, one of the things that said out to me,
in addition to the statements that she made and then watching the video on
trying to discern what the distinction it made between what the original
charges are and how they change it.
Here are my thoughts, so the video in of itself as it relates to what she
charge is, charged the individuals, raised actually more question that it
provided answer. So at one level it clarified that the injury didn`t take
place at the initial detention because we saw that, we saw he was disable
to at least to stand up even though he was crying out and yelling.
But we also the information from the autopsy report indicating that there
was a singular injury. So something happened in the van that we still
don`t and the reason that we know that is we`re looking at the charges that
were amended now to address the involuntary manslaughter with a vehicle,
right? So that indicates that the car was used in some way addressing the
most serious charges in all of these officers.
What I think -- I want people to know and understand is all of it still
steaming from, what she still qualifying as an illegal arrest, that he
should not have been arrested anyway. But if he was in the custody of the
officers which we know that he was, they did have a duty of care that
extended to them and that`s why who have those charges about safeguarding a
HENDERSON: Because that was not taking care off either and obviously she
believe that beyond a reasonable doubt that she can proved that they are
some criminal liabilities that their behavior when they have him in the van
and whatever they did with him.
SCHUTLZ: All right, legal analyst Paul Henderson with us tonight. Joy,
how`s the community going to respond to this?
REID: Well, I mean I think that the first instance on May 1st when Marilyn
Mosby announced these charges, an incredible coming effect. I can tell you
being on the streets of Baltimore at that time. People were euphoric at
that charges but people were also tempering that euphoria by saying, "Well
now we actually have to see the process go forward". There`s been a lot of
rumor mongering in the air that these charges won`t stand up to an
indictment, that a grand jury might essentially throw them out. And that
can happen in this process.
But I think these changes being reaffirmed by a grand jury is going to
continue to I think soak the hope of people in the City of Baltimore that
this process may exactly resulted what they see as justice for Freddie
SCHULTZ: Well, Mosby was criticized for being heavy-handed for rush to
judgment. "Overboard" was the word that was used. This somewhat
vindicates her position.
REID: I think it does because what you saw, the medical examiner did
return a report saying this was a homicide. And the prosecutor proceeded
from there. There was some criticism that she had the report for a very
short time, but you have to remember that prosecutor`s office was
conducting a parallel investigation at the same time that the police
department was conducting its own internal probe.
And if you look at just the ordinary citizen, typically if someone is
arrested they are charged with a crime, the police actually put forward a
police report then there are charges. And you can proceed to indictment
very quickly it`s just that when you`re talking about police officers it`s
normally not as quick as it is for a civilian citizen.
SCHULTZ: OK, national correspondent Joy-Ann Reid with us tonight. Thanks
REID: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, we`ll continue our conversation on Fast-Track of the
TTP and later, a new twist of the murder mystery in the nation`s capital.
We`ll explain how a pizza plays into the search for a suspect who is
reportedly in the New York area.
We`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, on the Ed Show Senator Jon Tester Montana join the
conversation as we continue talking about Fast-Track and the TTP.
Stay with us we`ll be right back.
SCHULTZ: And we`re back. Fast-Track scored a victory today in the Senate
as they passed a key procedural vote to move forward on the legislation
which would give the President authority to rubber stamp trade deals
without any debate in Congress. It would be an up or down vote. A final
vote on Fast-Track should come tomorrow in the Senate.
For more let me bring in Senator John Tester of Montana. Senator, good to
have you with us tonight. What has unfolded with NAFTA has gone in front
of the World Trade Organization. They`re saying that a country origin or
labeling isn`t going to make it.
And now you`ve got the Ag Secretary Tom Vilsack who was saying that
Congress has to chance this law so the United States can adhere to this
trade rule. I know this is big with ranchers and farmers and of course the
food industry in this country. Where do you stand on this Senator?
SEN. JON TESTER, (D) MONTANA: Well, I mean this is crazy Ed. I mean this
is why you need fair trade not free trade. Listen I heard the previous
statement where you talked about food being labeled coming from the United
States. And they found that to be illegal. What is wrong with that?
It`s amazing to me that we`re going to let an organization outside of the
United States, the World Trade Organization tell us that a law that
Congress passed, that was signed by our Republican president in 2008 is
illegal. That`s crazy and it`s what wrong with this trade agreements, they
don`t allow for countries to be able to do what`s right by their consumers,
and what`s right by the American consumer, is tell them where their foods
TESTER: And it`s as simple as that. It`s not that big a deal. It`s
pretty common sense to me.
SCHULTZ: So, Senator this really in unfolding to be a perfect example as
to how international trade deals can circumvent a representative government
here in America.
SCHULTZ: Where you vote on something, it get signed but it`s really not
law if there`s a trade deal internationally where other countries can come
in and dictate to America. What do you this is going to the debate?
TESTER: Well, I don`t know I didn`t seem to affect the debate much in the
Senate. What I heard from many of the folks that I served with that this
trade agreement wasn`t going to impact our laws in this country at all and
then presto chango. Two days ago the WTO comes in and says Country of
Origin Labeling is no longer legal and we`re going to throw on $2 billion
with the terrorist if you keep it. It`s crazy and I just -- I can`t
believe, I mean...
TESTER: ... you know, I tell folks that the family farms and ranches in
this country are the backbone of this country. And its decisions like this
that aren`t even made by the United States of America or it`s people that
end up working against us and working against family farms and ranchers in
SCHULTZ: Now, country origin labeling is been on the Farm Bill since 2008.
And this of course is big for food security, food protection. And now --
where is going to go, is this going to get ripped out of the Farm Bill, or
do you think that the -- Vilsack the Ag Secretary says you got to reverse
the law so it will fit the trade deal...
SCHUTLZ: ... this would bring a big fight. 92 percent of the American
people wanted COOL, Country OF Origin Labeling.
TESTER: And I`m part of that 92 percent. I think it`s very, very
important. What we`ve seen happening in the House already is a bill kick
out of the committee to repeal Country of Original Labeling. I just can`t
express my dismay with having to live by rules created by somebody outside
this country. It doesn`t make any sense.
And really it doesn`t make any common sense, now people are going to
grocery stores, there`s going to be no labeling on where the country came
from. They`ll see that USDA inspected seal. The meat may come from
Southeast Asia or Argentina or anywhere and they`ll assume its American
Look, we raise the best beef in the world. The best pork in the world,
right here in this country we got to able to label it.
SCHULTZ: Senator Jon Tester of Montana. Good to have with us tonight. I
appreciate you time.
TESTER: Thanks to you Ed.
SCHULTZ: Let me bring in Lori Wallach, Director of Public Citizens Trade
Watch Trade Watch, also with us tonight Larry Cohen, President of
Communication Workers of America.
Lori, you first, this is exactly what you have been talking about? Is this
the perfect example of what could happen under TPP?
LORI WALLACH, PUBLIC CITIZENS TRADE WATCH: Unfortunately it is. And it`s
not the first time. It`s just the latest time that we`ve seen a trade
agreement undermine a U.S. environmental or consumer law.
So in this instance, we`ve got unelected tribunalist in Geneva Switzerland
telling us the law that Congress passed, a Republican signed U.S. courts
reviewed and said it was just fine, has to go or else we get slammed with
And that comes on the string of these rulings. We have thrown out the ban
in tuna fish that caught killing dolphin. That was after a different trade
ruling. We rolled back Clean Air Act regulations. We`ve rolled back
Endangered Species Act regulations. Heck, we added three years of monopoly
to the patents on medicines that jacked up medicines prices because the WTO
told us to.
And that`s why it`s so important for folks to make sure the Senate was
going to support Fast-Track. The fight is in the House.
SCHULTZ: It is. OK.
WALLACH: And we couldn`t stop it.
SCHULTZ: Well, right now, there is a mixed bag there of opinion as to how
the House vote would go, but to stay on the trade agreement for a moment.
Mr. Cohen, how are we going to the enforced labor laws overseas? This is
the second part of the story. We keep being -- or we`re told by the
administration and the President that there are new enforcement provisions
in here that will be unlike any other trade agreement we`ve got in the
past, your thoughts on that?
LARRY COHEN, COMMUNICATIONS WORKERS OF AMERICA: Sadly it`s not true.
There is no evidence that Human Rights Organizations, anywhere in the TPP
universe had been talked to it all. We spend a lot of time working with
allies in Mexico. I was there recently. No conversations at all about TPP
and human rights in Mexico. While I saw the picture of 43 dead young men -
- on Reforma and people camping up from their families, demanding to know
what`s happened to them.
Human Rights is worst than ever in Mexico and yet the White House tells us
that some secret trade deals going to improve it. It doesn`t work whether
it`s in the United States, in Mexico, in Vietnam or any of the other
SCHULTZ: So Lori, how do you see these enforcement provision that would
WALLACH: Ed, the problem is not just, hasn`t the Obama administration not
enforced but there`s a question about enforceability.
So as you`ve pointed out the investor-state tribunals, the private attorney
tribunals where the corporations can go and enforce their TPP rights, they
can go there and basically, boom, suddenly the U.S. government has to pay
them cash dollars from all those taxpayers because they all want to meet
our loss (ph).
But under the rules, even the ones that we know the Obama administration is
putting into the TPP which are based on rules that we`re in the Bush
administration`s last four trade agreements, we have just at the end of
last year a government accountability office study where they actual
reviewed for one of those agreements five year
WALLACH: In practice hasn`t made a darn difference.
SCHULTZ: OK. And finally, Mr. Cohen, the vote in the House. Will those
who oppose this hold their ground or is the pressure going to be too great
on some of them?
COHEN: Right now we`re getting grounds but millions of citizens across the
country, labor, environmental, immigrants, faith-based groups, students, I
was in Iowa state Saturday, I was amazed, the breath of this coalition
across the country is not only holding firm, it`s growing.
COHEN: And so they are on a rush job and we`re mobilizing everywhere.
We`re going to win in the House. I`m confident today`s Senate vote
SCHULTZ: Lori Wallach, Larry Cohen, great to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.
Still ahead of the Ed Show, Hillary Clinton`s Benghazi e-mails, they go
And next, new information on the lead up to this week`s oils spill on the
Stay with us. We`ll be right back on the Ed Show.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
More on the cleanup efforts off the coast of Santa Barbara, California
where the oil spill took place on Tuesday, an estimated 105,000 gallons of
oil leaked from a pipeline on Tuesday. So far roughly 8,000 gallons of
crude has been raked or skimmed off the surface of the water.
NBCs Kirk Hawkins has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK HAWKINS, NBC CORRESPONDENT: As state of emergency along the scenic
Southern California Coast is now worst than expected. The U.S. Coast Guard
says, as much as 105,000 gallons of oil may shipped to the ocean near Santa
Barbara. The slick is stretching nine miles.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cleanup doesn`t occur overnight. It`s a long
HAWKINS: California Gov. Jerry Brown declaring that state of emergency to
free up additional resources after an on shore pipeline broke Tuesday
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will do everything necessary to protect California
HAWKINS: The investigators are now looking into the possibility of
criminal charges, environmentalist say, it`s too soon to tell how badly the
spill is hurting birds and other animals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I know everybody said there`s no good place
for an oil spill but this is going the worst places to have an oil spill.
HAWKINS: Federal records should Plains All American Pipeline. The Texas
Company responsible for the ruptured pipe has had 175 safety and
maintenance infractions since 2006. More than three times the national
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re committed to continuously improve our safety and
excellence program across all of Plains.
HAWKINS: Tuesday beaches are now closed for Memorial Day weekend as cruise
raise to cleaning the coast that makes this area a popular vacation
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Stay with us here on the Ed Show. We`ll have new clues about the
D.C. murder mystery and the suspect`s connection to New York City after
We`ll be right back.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC
Stocks end mostly flat. The DOW is up a fraction. The S&P adds 5 points.
The NASDAQ climbs by 19 points.
Filings for new jobless claims jumped last week, climbing by 10,000 to
274,000. Even with the big gain, claims are still near multiyear low.
Home re-sales were unexpectedly weak last month, existing on sales dropping
more of the 3 percent missing expectations for a 1 percent increase.
And shares of Hewlett Packard are rallying after its latest earning report.
That`s it from CNBC first in Business Worldwide.
SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed show. The search continues for a man
suspected of killing three members of a Washington D.C. family and their
housekeeper. The house was set of fire. Authorities are looking for a 34-
year-old Daron Dylon Wint in the murder of three members of the Savopoulos
family and their housekeeper.
Police were able to identify Wint after matching DNA was found on a pizza
crust in the house. A pizza had been delivered to the house on May 13th
the day before the victims were discovered. Authorities say Wint may now
be in the Brooklyn, New York area. They consider him armed and very
NBC`s Brian Moore has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN MOORE, NBC CORRESPONDENT: A week after a wealthy Washington family
and their housekeeper were found dead in a burning home near the vice
presidential mansion police announce a break in a case that shaken the
MAYOR MURIEL BROWSER, (D) WASHINGTON D.C.: The Metropolitan Police
Department seeks Darren Dylan Wint, black male, 5 foot 7 inches in height,
weighing approximately 155 pounds.
MOORE: Police say Wint`s last known location was Brooklyn, New York.
LANIER: Right now, you have just about every law enforcement officer
across the country that is aware of his open warrant and are looking for
MOORE: Police sources say the big break came from DNA found on a piece of
pizza delivered to the mansion where Savvas Savopoulos, his wife, son and
housekeeper were all killed.
LANIER: Right now does not appear that this was just a random crime but
there is a connection through the business of the suspect and the
Savopoulos family business.
MOORE: Savopoulos was CEO of a successful construction company. He
mysteriously asked that $40,000 be delivered to his home and the hours
before he died. Investigators believed that the family was bound and
threaten for a day before their lives were taken in what one patient calls
and act of evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me now from Brooklyn, New York is NBC`s Rehema Ellis,
Rehema what is the latest on the search and why that they believed he is in
the New York area?
REHEMA ELLIS, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ed I should tell you that I`m
standing just across the street from the 69th precinct and we believed
inside that precinct is a girlfriend of the suspect. And that`s why they
believed his in this area. There was a reportedly a siding of Wint in the
Brooklyn area last night, authorities believed he may haven take a bus to
this area that he may have even spend the night with his girlfriend and
that`s why authorities are questioning him.
There are some talked that she was trying to convinced him to turn himself
in that his family in Maryland would like very much for him to turn himself
in. And that`s what has brought us here to this section of Brooklyn, you
know, because Brooklyn is a very large part of New York city, it`s a couple
of million people live here and were not for the connection of having a
girlfriend here would be a very wide area for authorities to search, but
that is what is led us here.
Again a connection with the girlfriend someone apparently who knows him and
now police are questioning her. We should point out that authorities say
she is not under arrest, but she is just someone that they`re hoping to get
information from that could lead them to the suspect.
SCHULTZ: NBC`s Rehema Ellis reporting tonight from Brooklyn. Thank you
Rehema I appreciate it. Now let`s turn to Karen Desoto defense Attorney,
former prosecutor and professor of political science at New Jersey City
University. The pizza crust the DNA put.
KAREN DESOTO, PROFESSOR, NEW JERSEY CITY UNIVERSITY: The pizza crust.
SCHULTZ: . it all together for us.
DESOTO: Well, this is amazing Ed because touch DNA which is a relatively
new technique. Actually it`s been used in high profile cases before which
JonBenet Ramsey for one. It`s very interesting because usually in regular
DNA testing and since the mid 1990`s we`ve gone a few generations of DNA
But touch DNA is that they can actually analyze one or two cells of shaded
skin or cells whereas you would need 15 to 20 in the regular kind of DNA.
So this technique which I`m assuming that they used on the saliva in this
case is extraordinary. The technology is amazing the fact that they were
able to do that that they had the sample that it wasn`t burned in the fire
is really quite a good thing for.
SCHULTZ: So this is a big break for investigators?
DESOTO: It`s a huge break for investigators because that DNA obviously, if
his in a database which apparently he was. Now in many states and under
federal law since 1999, if you are incarcerated in a federal prison or if
your in a state that collects database, you go into the system and
therefore if you ever do anything and there`s a sample they can simply run
it through that system which in fact they did here.
I know that it was reported that he was arrested for a burglary, there was
a second degree assault charge so he was in the system and now this is DNA
tracking is a very controversial area of the law.
SCHULTZ: Karen, what do you make of the fact that authorities have not
ruled out there maybe other people involved?
DESOTO: Well, because usually in home invasions is usually not just one
person usually there`s one or two people especially when you have multiple
people that are in the house to begin with one person couldn`t over power a
dad and mom against the son. So usually there are two or three people
involved in these home invasions and I`m thinking because this was a
mansion, because it was a wealthy family I`m sure that he has partners in
crime and it`s unfortunate. But now that we know who possibly one suspect
is then you could start going through the investigation see who he did time
with in the jail cell and the other little indicators that give you that
SCHULTZ: Right now the DNA back to that from moment certainly a big break
as you say but someone had to deliver the pizza?
DESOTO: Yeah, of course.
SCHULTZ: I mean there`s an eye witnesses.
SCHULTZ: . who can we assume that?
DESOTO: Well, no. Not necessarily if there were instructions saying well
I`m going to take a shower and leave it at the front door.
DESOTO: OK, but the other piece of evidence of is very interesting is
that, you know, where they dead already, how long where in they in the
house, who paid did. They lead money on the front porch and say I`ll leave
you 20 in the front porch and leave the pizza. So, you know, there could
be lots of additional clues.
DESOTO: .. correlated to that as well.
SCHULTZ: Karen Desoto thanks for your time tonight, I appreciate it.
Still to come Scott Walker`s riding high in the polls in Iowa. But new
details about his economic record in Washington continued to hunt him. And
it could be derail his presidential ambitions. Stay with us we`re right
SCHULTZ: Back to the Ed Show. Hundreds of pages of Hillary Clinton`s e-
mails were released today. We`ll talk about that next with Democratic
Strategist Bob Shrum and Schlapp from the American Conservative Union.
We`ll be back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
This morning, the New York Times released 349 pages of Hillary Clinton`s
private e-mails from her time as Secretary of State. The first batch of e-
mails offer a glimpse into the exchange of information surrounding the 2012
attack in Benghazi.
The document show Clinton`s personal e-mail account contained information
the government calls sensitive but not classified. Sensitive information
included the location of state department officials in Libya. Clinton also
received and passed along numerous memos about the situation in Libya from
Sidney Blumenthal, a long time friend of the Clintons and employee of the
Clinton Foundation. Blumenthal was barred from serving in the State
Department by the Obama White House.
The New York Times reported earlier this week much of the intelligence
passed on by Blumenthal appears to have come from a group of business
associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the Libyan
While these e-mails don`t support Republicans wider Benghazi conspiracy
theories, they certainly raised questions about Blumenthal`s involvement.
I`m joined tonight by Democratic Strategist Bob Shrum and Matt Schlapp,
Chairman of the American Conservative Union.
Mr. Schalpp, you first tonight. Clearly, Blumenthal has been a friend of
the Clinton`s for years. There`s been a long association there. She took
information from Blumenthal who is a trusted friend but not a public or
should I say government official. How do you see that?
MATT SCHLAPP, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Well, I think look, elected
officials and their advisers get information from wide array of people. I
think the problem with Mr. Blumenthal is obviously he`s always been a
political adviser to Hillary Clinton. He was clearly advising her on
politics and he had business before the State Department.
He wanted to get approval for the deal that had to get some kind of States
Department approval over in Libya. Now that deal eventually did not occur,
it did not happened for him but once again, with the Clinton`s, when we
talk about the Clinton`s in office, it always comes down to business deals
as well for the wide array of people that come with them. And I think this
is more troublesome news for Hillary Clinton.
SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, how do you read it?
BOB SHRUM, WARSCHAW PROFESSOR OF POLITICS USC: Well, three things, first
of all, these e-mails indicate when you look at the New York Times story
that what the administration was saying and what Secretary of State Clinton
was saying is true. There was a fraud of war. People didn`t know quite
what that happened originally.
Was it spontaneous demonstration? Was it an al-Qaeda or al-Qaeda connected
plot, which is what Sidney wrote the second day he wrote e-mails?
Secondly, Sidney is a very subtenant (ph) person. I mean, Matt, I got to
tell you, he is not just a political adviser, he`s a very smart guy and he
knows a lot about policy.
Number three, I think, if this is what Trey Gowdy and the Republicans have
and they go down this road, they`re not going to get anywhere. We`ve been
going through this for a month and a half and at this point, Hillary
Clinton hasn`t been heard at all. She still leads all these Republicans
and by pretty good margins. You know, they`ve been doing this for 23 years
to the Clintons.
SCHLAPP: What -- how`s it worked out?
SCHULTZ: Well, Matt Schlapp, is this a smoking gun today?
SCHLAPP: No, I don`t think so. And I do agree with Bob. I think, what
he`s basically is saying is that in the 30,000 e-mails she deleted, there`s
probably wasn`t really interesting information and we`re never going to
read it. So, there`s most likely the state have -- where the state --
we`re not going to learn something that`s dramatic or smoking gun.
But it goes down to the main facts, Congress investigated these two, three,
four times and we never knew about an e-mail server. Then, on this
investigation with Trey Gowdy, we found out about a server, we found out
there are lots of e-mails and then, we found that she deleted a lot of
Until Hillary Clinton puts all of these on the table and I think she said
she wanted it on the table, it actually beats her interest to put it on the
table and answers all the questions of all the reporters, she is not going
to get beyond this.
SCHULTZ: So, Bob Shrum, you don`t think that Blumenthal`s involvement who
is a businessman trying to do government contracts with a transitional
government changes that dynamic at all?
SCHULTZ: When you think that the Republicans want a subpoena of Blumenthal
and get him in front of the committee and find out exactly what he knew,
when he knew and what he communicated?
SHRUM: Sure. They`re going to subpoena him and just as he was subpoenaed
during the investigation of the Monica Lewinsky scandal and I don`t think
it`s going to get them anywhere.
That look, Matt contradicts himself. At one level, he wants to say, "Oh,
gee. This is really embarrassing. This is really bad for Clinton. This
shows that there was all this business staff going on and by the way,
there`s no evidence that the business was connected with anything that he
wrote to Hillary Clinton. And at the same time...
SCHLAPP: It was in Libya. The business was in Libya.
SHRUM: ... she don`t, yeah-- she deleted everything. She deleted
everything that would have been embarrassing. Why didn`t she delete these?
I think, she`s telling the truth. She deleted personal e-mails, turned all
the stuff over to the State Department, it`s not gone to the committee and,
obviously, it`s gone in the New York Times.
SCHLAPP: It only went to the committee after Congress has looked at it a
couple of times already. She looks like she stonewalling, Bob. I`m not
yelling. I`m just laughing at the idea that Sidney Blumenthal was just
doing this and had no interest in Libya. He had a business proposal...
SHRUM: No, no.
SCHLAPP: ... I didn`t deny that.
SHRUM: I think he had interest in Libya. I said there is no connection
between him writing these e-mails to her which I think they are old friends
and he does give her advice.
SCHLAPP: Let me jump in there. Let me jump...
SHRUM: ... There`s no evidence in this -- connection to that in any
business deals in Libya.
SCHLAPP: Well, let me jump in there. I`ll give you the fact that when you
are in office, you should get advice from a wide array of sources including
your friends but his sources in these e-mails were his business associates
who he was putting in front of the State Department as legitimate folks in
Libya. He was credentializing (ph) them in the business side by trying to
act like they have the right information on...
SHRUM: And he did.
SCHLAPP: ... and did they saw what happened in Libya and that`s the fact.
SHRUM: By the way, they turned out they did the second day. He sent her a
memo saying that his sources told him that this was a pre-planned attack.
Not spontaneous demonstration and she send that to her.
SCHLAPP: But she been up with that e-mail alone and said we got to look at
SCHULTZ: All right. We`ll have to leave it there, gentlemen. This is
only a third of the 850 e-mails that are expected to be released.
Bob Shrum, Matt Schlapp, great to have you with us tonight.
SCHULTZ: Up next, Scott Walkers broken promise on jobs in Wisconsin could
have a big impact on his future job prospects. That`s next
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER, WISCONSIN: 250,000 new jobs that`s my goal, 250,000
new jobs by the end of our first term in office.
KENT WAINSCOTT, WISN 12 NEWS REPORTER: Is this a campaign promise?
Something you want to be held to?
WALKER: Absolutely. The 250,000 is my floor not my ceiling. I need to
release 250,000 jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good goal but he came up short. Wisconsin added under 128,000
jobs during Scott Walker`s first term as governor. He`s developed in
corporation had control of millions of taxpayer dollars. The Wisconsin
economic development incorporation lost track of their finance as quickly.
The deal at the center of the inquiry is a $500,000 loan to a construction
company issued by the WEDC. No jobs were created and no money was paid
The loan came after the owner of the construction company dropped $10,000
into Walker`s 2010 campaign. The Governor said he had no knowledge of the
loan although at 2011, a letter that Walker received says otherwise.
Walker pulled the plug on the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation
after the state audit determined his agency was basically not producing.
Now, Walker must answer serious questions about the privatization disaster
and allege political favors.
Joining me tonight, Wisconsin State Representative Peter Barca also with us
tonight is Ruth Conniff, Editor-in-Chief of the Progressive Magazine.
Great to have both of you with us.
Mr Barca was there not any over side of the WEDC what happened here?
STATE REP. PETER BARCA, (D) WISCONSIN: Well, we`re trying to find out Ed
in fact they`ve been stonewalling us on providing records. Senator Larson
and I who seat on the board as democratic legislators and board members
have requested the copy of all the records connected with this group. In
fact the other part that so incredible is that this loan documents are
missing and, you know, it`s maximum (ph) sort of a coverup or perhaps
equally worst maybe they never did do any other like that.
SCHULTZ: You mean they tell me there`s.
BARCA: . they say $0.5 million.
SCHULTZ: There`s a $0.5 million loan out there and there`s no records of
BARCA: They indicated they cannot find the records and the documentation.
Now we`ve asked for that we`ve also asked Ed what are the liabilities can
be there, how many other unsecured loans do they give and how many other
loans that are under writers raise issues about did they still give and
they won`t turn over the records.
SCHULTZ: OK. Ruth Conniff, how much were a problem is this what`s his
response to the inquiry?
RUTH CONNIFF, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, PROGRESSIVE MAGAZINE: Well, Walker has been
trying to stay a step ahead of this disaster so this agency that he created
privatizing job creation Wisconsin making himself the chair of this board
this flagship economic development agency. It`s been a disaster he planned
it hasn`t created the jobs that was suppose to infect us as soon as they
created. A little bit less than 8,000 jobs we lost 13,000 outsourcing
during that same time period so it`s a net lost giving money to Cronies who
gave, you know, campaign contributors spending money willing nearly not
tracking loans, not tracking job creation.
What he`s saying now is it was -- he doesn`t want anymore of this loans to
go out, he said that because this news was about to break set of Friday the
news broke on a Sunday and then he`s also said it was a mistake when he
proposed that this agency be exempt from disclosure so this agency which is
sort of the last agency you can imagine you would want to keep things
secret was under Walker`s proposal not going to have to disclose any of the
information that we now know that Peter Barca is talking about, about the
financial situations along recipients.
SCHULTZ: Mr. Barca is it clear do the government know about the loan?
BARCA: Well, it`s not clear what he knew and what he knew at. He used
chairman the board though so he obviously has far more access to records on
the rest of it. I was assumed Mr. Chairman he knew of every loan that was
send out and in fact he was secede (ph) on a loan document or a form that
indicated this loan was made. Now he his office is claiming he never
received that letter.
BARCA: . despite the fact that he secede
SCHULTZ: So Mr. Barca, tell me about what your request a federal
investigation by whom?
BARCA: Well, we`ve asked the attorney general and our U.S. attorney`s in
Wisconsin to have an independent investigation I mean clearly the borrower
defrauded the WEDC agency because they did not checked of the box
indicating they have legal in conferences. And that`s required and
secondly the agency itself should have caught this I mean the cursory
review of looking at CCAP or other federal legal services would have follow
himself because he was in deeply legal trouble.
And had issue in Oklahoma where he had indicated he used going to use the
Wisconsin money to pay off this deal in Oklahoma, which of course that`s
not what the Wisconsin taxpayers want their money to be used for they want
to create jobs in Wisconsin.
So we`ve asked U.S. attorney to look at this issues analyze the fact that
we have missing documentation and find out is there perhaps even corruption
going on that you have paid for play because it`s all suspicious that he
gets the maximum contribution which at that time nearly at 32 people max
out to him for governor.
BARCA: . he`s first raise and just a short time their efforts campaign
manager and his top aid met with the secretary of WEDC and in he indicated
the secretary, he thought it was a fairly.
BARCA: . safety deal, but because the secretary pushed them it appears
that`s why he made it.
SCHULTZ: Ruth, are the republicans having the back of Walker right now in
CONNIFF: You know the republicans have had it with Walker in Wisconsin and
they will say this privately though now publicly Walker is running for
president and he`s leaving a big mess behind him in the state of Wisconsin
so he is taken an acts to our flagship university system tremendous
university system he`s vulturizing (ph) the entirely public school system
in Wisconsin channeling out of public schools. We are second only to
Alabama and per pupil student cuts to our school system which has been top
year school system channeling that money to private schools and, you know,
this job creation is agency is a corrupting us.
CONNIFF: So, people have had it they`re ready to say goodbye.
SCHULTZ: So we can get Hillary`s e-mails but we can`t get the long papers
from Governor Walker interesting dynamic plan out. Great to have both of
you with us tonight, Wisconsin State Rep. Peter Barca and Ruth Conniff with
us here tonight.
That`s the Ed show, I`m Ed Schultz.
PolitcsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton, starts right now.
Good evening rev.
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