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All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, May 22nd, 2015

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Date: May 22, 2015
Guest: Jason Bailey, Benjamin Crump, Christopher John Farley, Dan Savage,
Janet Taylor, David Feige, Tim Carney


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

JOSH DUGGAR, REALITY STAR: I would submit to you that every single
issue is moral.

HAYES: The scandal around America`s cable culture warriors continues
to erupt. Guess which presidential candidate is standing by their Duggar?
Dan Savage is here with reaction.

Then, the unbelievable way this politician just announced a love
child with his former receptionist.

RADIO HOST: Have you ever admitted that, publicly, your son?

JOE MORRISSEY, FORMER VA. DELEGATE: Everybody knows that Chase is my

HAYES: Plus, the 12-year-old shot and killed by Cleveland police.
Tonight, why six months later there are no charges in the case of Tamir

And all in at the movies --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have not been -- we are not (INAUDIBLE)!

HAYES: Why is there is more consensus on "Mad Max" than there is on
global warming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is she taking them?

HAYES: ALL IN starts now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Big news coming out of the cross-section of the conservative cultural
wars and reality TV. Tonight, Josh Duggar, the eldest featured on the hit
TLC reality show "19 Kids and Counting", finds himself at the center of a
sexual abuse scandal that has forced him to resign from his position at a
conservative Christian lobbying group.

Allegations involving Duggar were first revealed by "In Touch"
magazine, which obtained a 2006 police report. The report says that Josh
Duggar was accused of repeatedly sexually molesting five underage girls,
some while they slept in 2002 and 2003 when Duggar was a teenager.

The now 27-year-old married father of three does not deny these
allegations. He issued a statement on Thursday that reads in part, "Twelve
years ago as a young teenager, I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely
sorry and deeply regret. I confessed this to my parents who took several
steps to help me address the situation. We spoke with the authorities
where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those
affected by my action to receive counseling."

If you know Josh Duggar, the reality TV star, you know him from the
TLC show "19 Kids and Counting," a program chronicling the lives of a
prolific conservative Christian family in northwest Arkansas.

Parents Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have since issued their own
statement that reads, in part, "When Josh was a young teenager, he made
some bad mistakes, and we were shocked. That dark and difficult time
caused us to seek God like never before."

Today, TLC announced it was pulling the show from its schedule, but
was not clear about long-term plans. "We`re deeply saddened and troubled
by this heartbreaking situation. Our thoughts and prayers are with the
family and victims at this point in time."

But the fallout over this story extends far beyond the world of basic
cable because the Duggar family placed themselves at the forefront of
America`s culture wars. They have been prominent advocates on a variety of
fronts, championing anti-choice legislation, speaking out against marriage
equality, and positioning themselves as outspoken critics of the LGBT

Up until yesterday, Josh Duggar worked for the Family Research
Council, a stridently anti-gay organization, and in that position, he once
argued that an LGBT non-discrimination measure in Arkansas would jeopardize
the safety of children.


JOSH DUGGAR: Enacting additional laws that are trying to protect one
group of people over another is not really the solution. In fact, it has
often the inverse effect on others. We have to make sure that we`re
standing up to t right of privacy and protecting the well being of women
and children in our cities.


HAYES: Yesterday, Duggar resigned from his position as the head of
the Research Family Council`s political arm. That group posting this
statement, "Josh believes the situation will make it difficult for him to
be effective in his current work." Yes. "We believe this is the best
decision for Josh and his family at this time."

Yet before these allegations came to light, Duggar`s TV celebrity and
political activism placed him in contact with plenty of high profile
Republican presidential hopefuls. His Twitter offering the evidence.
Texas Senator Ted Cruz, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, former Florida
Governor Jeb Bush, former Senator Rick Santorum who was endorsed by the
Duggar family in 2012 and Mike Huckabee, a Duggar family friend who has
gotten the Duggar seal of approval this election cycle.

Today, the former Arkansas governor posting a message on Facebook
confirming his support for the family. Reading, "Josh`s action when he was
an underage teen are, as he described them himself, inexcusable, but that
doesn`t mean unforgiveable."

Perhaps. But the details released were pretty horrific. According
to report, family patriarch Jim Bob Duggar learned of the allegations of
sexual abuse in 2002. He reportedly sought help from church elders
following an incident in 2003, did not call police. According to report,
Jim Bob Duggar told authorities that Josh Duggar was sent away for months
of hard physical work and counseling. Investigation into the allegations
was finally open in 2006 when someone, we don`t know who, e-mailed the
Oprah Winfrey show, the Oprah Winfrey Show then passed along the
information to authorities. The statute of limitations had run out and no
charges were filed.

Yesterday, a judge in Arkansas ordered the case documents expunged at
the request of one of the alleged victims who still a minor.

Joining me now, the host of "Savage Lovecast," author and advocate,
Dan Savage.

All right. There is a lot here. There is a lot of different
complicated ways I feel about this entire story. Your reaction to this,
particularly given the political role, the Duggar family, Josh Duggar in
particular, have played on issues like particularly marriage equality.

DAN SAVAGE, SAVAGE LOVECAST: Not so much marriage equality. The
Duggars are very vocally and actively opposed an LGBT actively civil rights
ordinance in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where they live, and back their
referendum to repeal that law. And Michelle Duggar, Josh Duggar`s mom
argued that this law presented a danger to little girls particularly,
because it would allow trans women to use bathrooms. And it was in the
best interest of children to repeal this LGBT civil rights law.

And just the hypocrisy of Michelle Duggar out there, demagoguing and
demonizing LGBT people, while at the same time, having covered up for and
protected her son who had actually molested at least five little girls that
we know of is just staggering. It`s galling.

And the other thing I think to remember, I`ve been following this
some Twitter and online, there`s I believe it`s a discomforting expression,
almost amyloid delight on the part of some people I agree with,
politically. People on the left, I`m on the left.

We have to remember as we talk about this that five little girls --
at least five little girls -- were abused and molested, and there`s nothing
here to take delight in or to celebrate.

HAYES: Yes, I 100 percent agree. And I also have seen that tone
creep in in some places and found it pretty gross.

The other thought I keep thinking about is we have conversations
constantly about family values. I just can`t -- I`m a parent, OK? I`ve
got two kids. You`re a parent. The thought of this horrible thing that
has happened in your family with your kids, horrible thing, OK? Horrible
obviously to the kids who have been victims, also horrible, the 14-year-old
boy who has done that who you have to hope, Jesus, what could we do to make
sure this doesn`t happen again, and to choose to put yourself out as a
national television product knowing that your family is keeping this secret
and the weight that is bearing down on everyone in your family, just as
parent, it just gob smacks me. It gobsmacks me to do this to your kids.

SAVAGE: And to the other kids.

One of the other things I think that is so creepy about this whole
situation is the Duggars with their 19 children are very vocal on
television about the fact that the older children are really placed in a
parental role, that they play a role in parenting their younger children.

So, this abuse may not have been experienced by the children who were
abused in quite the same way if it was interfamily. Not sibling on
sibling, but parent on child almost, which is more potentially damaging.
And as far as we know, no counseling, really, of any sort was made
available to these kids as far as we know at this time. It`s still
unfolding, still coming out.

HAYES: You know, there`s also to me, the point you made about the
sort of language we use about danger to children, danger to children is a
language that`s used in politics, particularly in all sorts of ways, to
pass all kinds of policies, sometimes danger to children is used as an
excuse to beat back marriage equality or LGBT rights, sometimes to pass
certain laws or increase sentences.

And this is a stark reminder. I`ve done a lot of reporting on the
Catholic Church, actually, where danger to children comes from. The vast
majority of these incidents are happening among people that are invited
into the home for whatever reason. That`s the hardest truth to come
across, and it`s not the one that`s politically convenient when we create
the idea of the sort of foreign invader that we have to barricade against.

SAVAGE: Right. It doesn`t jibe with the whole stranger danger
concept. We want to put this risk and threat outside our families. We
want to pretend that is some creepy horrible others, some LGBT boogeyman
that`s going to perpetrate this kind of abuse, when actual studies
demonstrate that people are likely to be sexually abuse -- even sexually
assaulted by someone close to them, someone that they know.

You know, what we see from the religious right constantly is this
projection, this shifting of responsibility, marry -- gay couples who want
to marry present a threat to the institution of marriage. It`s not
straight couples who are committing adultery or telling themselves lies
about adultery like it cannot be something that a marriage can survive, or
divorcing that they`re a threat to the institution of marriage. It`s same-
sex couples that wish to marry that are a threat, and it absolves straight
couples or straight people, straight religion, straight churches,
evangelicals are more likely to divorce than none evangelicals,
responsibility for what they`re doing to marriage.

And in the same way, we see most abuse, most sexual molestation
happens within families. And yet when we talk about it, when religious
conservatives talk about it, they want to point a finger at nonfamily, they
want to point a finger at people that they define as the enemies of family,
or not from were having families of their own, LGBT people, particularly
trans people increasingly, with this anti-trans bathroom bills.

And that is what the Duggars have dug in on, is attacking transpeople
and opposing this LGBT rights bill in Fayetteville where they were out
there arguing that the threat to little girls in Fayetteville were
transwomen when they knew -- when they were covering for someone who
demonstrated that he, at least at that age, was a threat to little girls

HAYES: Dan Savage, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

Joining me now, psychiatrist Dr. Janet Taylor, and former public
defender, David Feige, author of "Indefensible".

Dr. Taylor, let me start with you. You had strong reaction to the
Mike Huckabee statement. You know, there`s part of me that agrees with the
Mike Huckabee statement. In fact, all of me agrees that inexcusable is not
the same as unforgiveable.

I guess my point is that I would like for that equanimity in large
part of this to be extended past the circle of ultra Christian
conservatives who happen to be family friends of the Huckabees.

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Yes. Well, my issue is sexual abuse
is a criminal act and is not a mistake. And a 14-year-old who presumably
knows right from wrong should not be in a position to be excused. He
should be in a position to be charged and held accountable.

HAYES: But isn`t -- David, do you agree with that?

DAVID FEIGE, FMR. PUBLIC DEFENDER: Not in the slightest. I mean,
look, make no mistake about it, I don`t want to be an apology for -- an
apologist for their views. But at the same time, there is politics of
personal destruction that really concerns me.

And from everything I`ve seen, OK, they haven`t come forward.
There`s no indication that anything happened again. He was contrite, he
apologized, he was forthright with his family and I know I sound like --

HAYES: You do sound like an apologist. You watch my jaw dropping.

FEIGE: I know. But here`s the thing, at some point, really, what
would punishment have done? What exactly would punishment have done?

HAYES: Well, we don`t -- well, Janet?

TAYLOR: Punishment would give justice to the victims. No one is
talking about these incident victims that presumably we don`t know if they
got treatment, we don`t know if they had justice, we don`t know if they had
an apology.

FEIGE: We don`t know any of it. We don`t know what they would have
wanted. We don`t know what they do want. It occurs to me --

TAYLOR: What this would have wanted was not to be forcibly touched
against their will. That`s what they would have wanted.

FEIGE: But you know what? I reject the idea that every single
victim wants nothing but vengeance, wants nothing but incarceration. I
don`t know if this was interfamily or not, but I can certainly imagine a
situation in which siblings forgive siblings, and it does seem to me that
at that point, the government might be wrong to step in and insist on

And, by the way, people do go to prison for a very long time and have
their lives ruined for this sort of thing.

HAYES: Well, let me interrupt --

TAYLOR: Do you understand that victims lives are ruined because of
the stigma of silence and people fought being held accountable?

FEIGE: But I don`t understand where you get the idea that they have
been silenced. We don`t know one way or another.

HAYES: Let me intervene and touch on two things, OK? One is there`s
a question about whether this should have been handled by the authorities.

Dr. Taylor, it sounds to me like you think they should have. And in
fact --

TAYLOR: It`s -- there is no question. There are people and
teenagers who are in jail right now for sexual assault and sexual abuse.
Teenagers account for 20 percent of the rapes in this country. Why should
he be excused?

HAYES: So, there`s a question of whether the authorities should be
called in. And my strong feeling is the answer to that is yet, that there
are mandatory reporting requirements among every institution for a reason,
and a reason is, what ends up happening is not reporting leaves to serial,
habitual instances.

FEIGE: Absolutely.

HAYES: So, that I think, let`s just be clear you have to report this

FEIGE: Agree.

HAYES: It`s not cool or forgiving or all in the family to just go to
the pastor or whoever.

FEIGE: Agreed completely. I think that is perfectly fine to report.


HAYES: It`s more than perfectly fine, required for a reason.

FEIGE: Well, it`s legally required.


FEIGE: And, got it.

HAYES: Now, the question --

TAYLOR: And ethically required.

HAYES: And ethically required. Now, the more complicated question
to me is the question of prison, right, or punishment. It does seem to me
complicating in this instance. We are talking about a person who himself
is a minor, 14 years old at the time this was done.

FEIGE: Exactly.

HAYES: Dr. Taylor, my understanding is that doesn`t -- you think
that that is not sufficiently mitigating.

TAYLOR: If age was an excuse for wrong behavior, we would have a lot
of people who are not in jails or incarcerated right now.


HAYES: We probably should have a lot people who are not in jail or
incarcerated right now, right?

TAYLOR: Sexual abuse a crime. It`s a crime. It`s a criminal act.

HAYES: Right. But let me just push on this for a little bit. That
itself is not a substantive defense. There are people who are serving
incredibly long terms who are charged as adults as 14-year-olds who I don`t
think should be in there, right? I mean, it`s unclear that the juvenile
justice system in particular handles this stuff well. Would you agree?

TAYLOR: They do, but we have a justice system. In this case, he was
fought entered it into as far as we know and that`s where the problem is.

HAYES: Let me ask you this, David.

FEIGE: Sure.

HAYES: This is an important question, I think. I think we
understand this crime as necessarily habitual and in some fundamental way
as essential to the person committing it, right?

FEIGE: Right.

HAYES: That this is -- that people are child molesters, pedophiles
who are not and if they are, they will keep doing this if you let them.
What do we know about the -- what the research says about whether that`s
true or not?

FEIGE: Well, the research certainly suggests that if you are a
pedophile, that is a -- that that is a choice and also a fact.


FEIGE: That said, as we know with all kinds of disfavored behaviors,
the fact that you want to do something doesn`t mean you do it. Alcoholics
don`t always drink. Smokers quit smoking.

And I`m just saying -- by the way, there is no evidence whatsoever in
this case that he`s done anything other than what he`s alleged to have done
back then.

HAYES: But that, of course, is the horrifying shoe that we are all
hoping doesn`t drop because I`ve covered enough of this -- and, again, I
know nothing, but I`ve covered enough of this and particularly in the
context of the church where behaviors did not suddenly go away, even when
people cross their fingers and hope that after father had a little time
away or got a little bit of counseling or went for hard labor, I`ve read
all those things before, I`ve read them in church files, that the person
would come back cured. And guess what?

FEIGE: They weren`t cured.

HAYES: They were very much not cured.

FEIGE: And it is perfectly plausible and I would hazard to suggest
that if there`s anybody else out there, given the firestorm that is
surrounding this whole thing, we`ll know about it soon enough.

HAYES: Right.

And Dr. Taylor, the other point to me here, what you talked about in
terms of taboo and keeping the victims in mind, I mean, the secrecy and
taboo around this is both morally appropriate and also it appears to me the
kind of thing that keeps the cycle going in which people won`t report,
won`t come out about it.

FEIGE: Well, it keeps it going. But trauma is a major public health
concern because we have victims of trauma -- of sexual abuse and trauma who
have long-term sequela. They have emotional incidents. They have physical
incidents. Their functioning over the long time can be severely impacted
by one incident.

And the reality is 10 percent of childhood and teenage sexual
offenders -- 10 percent of people do not -- 90 percent do not reoffend.
But you don`t know that until you do the right examination, which means
looking at their underlying psychological structure, substance abuse,
conflict in the family. There is so much we don`t know. We cannot excuse
this behavior.

HAYES: And I don`t think anyone is excusing -- I think that point,
to me, is the one that sticks out here, which is like proper care was not
taken in this instance in a way that is sort of horrifying to me.

At the same time, I do think the fact that he was 14 and that
presumably this was sealed for a reason, it was under wraps for a reason
complicates things a little bit.

Dr. Janet Taylor and David Feige, thank you very much. I really
appreciate that.

FEIGE: Glad to be here.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

HAYES: Still ahead, the incredibly strange behavior of a Virginia

Plus, the phenomenon of "Mad Max" and why it has been embraced by

And up and next, the age of liberalism has dawned in America, but it
might not be what we were expecting. I`ll explain.


HAYES: I saw a photo yesterday that`s been kind of sitting with me
all day. It`s been sitting with me for 24 hours. When we came to the
office today, I said we have to put this photo on air tonight. It is the
weirdest, most unsettling photo I`ve ever seen.

It`s a family portrait. It features a politician. And I would
explain the context of the said photo and show you that photo so you can
take in all its glory, ahead.


HAYES: All right. Right at this moment, they`re counting the votes
in Ireland where something incredible happened today. For the first time
in human history on this planet, a nation went to the polls to vote in a
national referendum on marriage equality. It would amend the Constitution
to allow same-sex couples to marry before the state. Organizers believe
the turnout will be historic, massive numbers of people just in the last
few days signing up.

And the fact that this could even take place in the fiercely Catholic
country of Ireland says something about the direction this issue is going,
not just here in the U.S., but across the world, particularly in Europe.

Now, here in the U.S., we`ve seen a polling reversal unlike anything
I`ve ever seen in my life.

Let me show you what polling on same-sex marriage looks like. Should
same-sex marriage be legal? In 1996, 27 percent said yes, and 68 percent
said no.

Here we are in 2015 and those numbers have almost completely
reversed: 60 percent now saying yes, that is an absolute record in that
polling, 37 percent saying no.

But while that gets a lot of attention, there`s another polling
result that might be more indicative of where the nation is in terms of its
general feeling on social issues. And that`s this poll.

This is views on social issues. It asks people to classify
themselves as very conservative, conservative, very liberal or liberal.
And for the very first time in that history, the 16-year history of that
poll, for the very first time, liberals and conservatives are tied.
They`ve never been tied before.

Back in 1999, you can see there, liberals are facing an 18 point
deficit. For the last 16 years, liberals in America, the left, and the
Democratic Party by extension, have been rolling a rock uphill on social
issues, always on the wrong side of the so-called wedge issues, always
trying to convince the skeptical public they share their values. We may be
at a tipping point and I really think that is the most profound result in
politics that no one is quite grappling with.

Joining me now to talk about this from Oklahoma, where he`s covering
the Southern Republican Leadership Conference is Tim Carney, senior
political columnist at "The Washington Examiner."

All right. Tim, let`s sort of stipulate for a moment, there is no
connection between popularity and rightness of view, right? So, I have
lots of views that are correct and unpopular. And so, let`s just separate
those for a second about the actual -- whether the views are correct.

Do you think this -- tell me how you feel the conservative right,
people who consider themselves socially conservative understand this
trajectory, particularly starting on marriage equality, but extending

TIM CARNEY, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, first, it`s important to
-- if you were to put up the Gallup chart about abortion numbers, there
from the `90s until now, it`s mostly flat, but actually slightly moved in
the pro-life direction. So, for someone like me who cares about that issue
and doesn`t make marriage a real issue, that`s a place where I see on the
social issues that matter, the country is becoming more conservative.

But another is -- I mean, today, the main guy who talked at the
Oklahoma Southern Republican Leadership Conservative about social issues
was Bobby Jindal. He put it all in the context of religious freedom.

And that`s what I would say is, yes. These trend lines continue.
Soon, we social conservatives will be a minority. And I hope that you,
Chris, as a liberal will look out for the civil rights of this minority and
their conscience rights and their freedom of association and the right to
live their lives and conduct their private business according to the way
that they want.

I think that that is certainly the case, like Christians, social
conservatives are looking around saying, all right, we just want to be able
to live our own lives according to our conscience. That is a view that is
growing on the right. That is an emphasis that is growing on the right.

HAYES: This is really key and it`s key to understanding how the
trajectory of this because there`s a number of issues having to do with
what I think social conservatives would say conscience issues, right? It
would have to do with Supreme Court cases around birth control and the
Affordable Care Act, the waiver that Notre Dame has to sign to get their
religious exemption which they are contesting is an infringement of their
religious liberty.

And these RFRA laws, right, religious freedom, we have seen those
rights rally around those the way that, say, five, ten years ago they were
rallying around gay marriage issues in the United States. It`s almost like
they kind of -- this is like a political retreat this bulkhead. Is that a
fair assessment?

CARNEY: I think it`s exactly that religious freedom protection is
the way that social conservatives, especially Christians, see sort of the
terms of their surrenders. OK. The idea that marriage would be defined --


CARNEY: -- the way that marriage would be defined according to a
Christian teaching on state by state levels, that`s the fight that we`re
losing, mostly because of the courts, but now as you`re saying because of
the polls, the public opinion that`s following it.

So fine, get married, do whatever you want. Live and let live.

But maybe if you`re a wedding photographer, you should be allowed to
decide which photograph you shoot. Maybe if you own a store, you employ an
employee, you should describe what sort of prescription drugs you`re going
to pay for of her.

HAYES: It also -- I think it also points from sort of descriptively
why those issues are going to have tremendous salience in the campaign
because that`s the place that I think Republican candidates are going to
feel like they`re on more solid ground, because they have stronger public
support and they can kind of create a kind of coalition between social
conservatives and libertarians on those sort of more narrow issues, on sort
of RFRA laws, right? You`re going to see them dig in on that.


HAYES: I think even someone like Jeb Bush who isn`t identifying
himself as a real crusader on social issues necessarily right now.

CARNEY: Well, yes. And I consider myself a conservative and
libertarian at the same time. And some people think that`s a

But I was telling me my libertarian friends 10 years ago, I said, in
the culture wars, pretty soon, you`re going to be on our side because there
are countries where the cultural right is trying to impose its morality.
There are times in the U.S. history where the cultural right is trying to
impose its morality.

But the way it looks now is it`s that you`re not allowed to run your
own wedding photography business according to your own morality if you`re
conservative. And you get -- as they move more and more into the minority

HAYES: I am judiciously -- I am judiciously not engaging the
substance of that argument which I think is flawed or at least the framing
of it is.

But let me ask you this, how do you think people understand that
question when they`re asking socially liberal and socially conservative? I
think one of the things that changes is a basket of issues has changed. So
I actually think they`re thinking primarily -- I think what people tend to
think about now at this point, LGBT and marijuana, I think are these sort
of signifiers --

CARNEY: Exactly. And those are issues that if you`re primarily
thinking about, say, abortion, then I think you would get different
answers. But I do think a lot of time, the term socially liberal, that
does that mean? If it means live and let live, people say, you know,
should gay people be allowed to get married? Should you be cool with
people being gay? Should people be allowed to smoke pot? Or maybe even
other harder drugs?

And on those issues, that`s -- I think that increasingly if you could
pull that, when you say you`re sociologically liberal, what do you mean?
Because some questions, I`m a socially liberal guy, but obviously -- yes?

HAYES: The key factor I think that is key in this is that the
psychological turn from being a majority to being a minority on some of
these issues, I think it`s going to have huge resonance on the campaign.

CARNEY: And on the flip side, when the left is going from the
minority to the majority, how will they behave?

HAYES: Yes. Tim Carney, thank you very much.

Up next, it`s bad enough when a politician impregnates his underage
receptionist, even worse when he decides somehow to take one of those weird
photos of his newly formed family as a way of breaking the news.


HAYES: All right. I`m going to tell you a few things that you need to
know about former Virginia delegate Joe Morrissey. One, he is running for
state senate as an independent after the Democratic Party rejected him from
their ticket.

Another is that this is the picture of the 57-year-old Morrissey with 19-
year-old Myrna Pride, a former receptionist at his law office, taken on
Mother`s Day. They`re joined by their 9-week-old son, Chase. They appear
to be dressed in antebellum style in the South.

You should also know that in December of last year, Morrissey pleaded
guilty to a misdemeanor count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor
in connection with an alleged relationship with pride when she was 17 years

Both Morrissey and Pride have consistently denied their relationship began
when she was under 18. Police said they found naked pictures of pride on
Morrisey`s phone as well as a text message she sent to a third party that
read, quote, OMG, I just f`ed my boss.

Morrissey explained the texts charging that both his and Pride`s phones had
been hacked.

Following his plea to the lesser charge, Morrissey resigned from office as
a Virginia delegate and was sentenced to six months in jail, spurring a
special election for his seat. But thanks to a work release program, he
was able to campaign in same said special election and was, drum roll
please, re-elected to his seat, this time as an independent.

He served in that role until March when he left to run for the state senate
and decided to open up about his relationship with pride. And that is
where the picture comes in. Morrisey, apropos of nothing, personally
handed this picture of himself and Pride with the baby to a local reporter.
When asked if the picture was confirmation that Chase is, indeed, his son,
he said no.

But this week, Morrissey decided to come clean.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people like you in one regard, but they don`t
like the fact -- and let me get through this and say it with as respectful
as I can. That you come to the community and you have an affair with a
young lady, produce a baby, and you walk away from it, never apologize,
never say anything, no regrets. That`s Joe Morrissey.



MORRISEEY: Where, Jack, in this universe do you say walk away from it?


MORRISSEY: Walk away from it?

I got up in this morning and the first person I kissed was chase.




MORRISSEY: My son. I don`t walk away from anything. I have...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe, have you ever admitted that publicly, your son?

MORRISSEY: Everybody knows that Chase is my boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, but have you ever admitted it, Joe?

MORRISSEY: Yes. Did it 30 seconds ago.


MORRISSEY: I said I`d wake up in the morning...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: so, ladies and gentlemen, I think I may have a coup
here, Joe Morrissey, for the first time that I know publicly admitted the
boy is his son.


HAYES: All right, Morrissey again maintains he did not have sex with Pride
until she was 18. And it turns out the two have big plans, which they
which they announced yesterday at a press conference.


MORRISSEY: Shortly after Chase was born, Myrna let me know that she would
like two and three and the fourth one. So, yes, we`ll get married.



I guess I wish them all the best, but also maybe don`t vote for this dude.


HAYES: Tonight we know what 12-year-old Tamir Rice might have been charged
with if he was not shot and killed by police. Rice was shot and killed
while playing with a replica pellet gun in November, just seconds after
police arrived on the scene. He was pronounced dead hours later.

More than six months into the investigation of his death, no charges have
been filed, nothing. And now an explosive document has surfaced, first
published in the Daily Kos that gives more details on the police version of

An incident report filed a week after Tamir Rice was shot and killed
classifies Rice as a suspect and lists two charges 12-year-old Rice could
have faced had he not been shot and killed.

The first charge is aggravated menacing, and the second inducing panic.

The report also lists the state of Ohio Officer Loehmann who shot and
killed rice, and Officer Garmback as victims.

In a statement, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson`s offices reiterated Rice was
never charged with the crimes listed in the report saying the document was
being referred to as an incident report from that night, it is not an
official charge scene.

The previously unreleased document does, however, give a clue as to what
officers might have charged Rice with had the case not been, quote, abated
by death.

Yesterday, I asked Benjamin Crump, attorney for the family of Tamir Rice
for his response to the incident report.


BENJAMIN CRUMP, RICE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Chris, it`s just outrageous. The
family of Tamir Rice can`t believe it when you look at that videotape that
somebody would put in black and white in a police report that Tamir was at
fault for his death, it just flies in the face of all common sense and,
really, humanity.

When you think about this child was, in less than one second, shot by the
police. There was no deescalation or anything like that. If anything, the
escalated the situation.

And I will tell you, Chris, it goes right in line with the answer from the
city attorneys when we filed the complaint in the civil matter. You
remember their response was Tamir Rice was at fault for his own death
because he should have been more careful.

HAYES: We are past six months since the death of Tamir Rice. The family
was only recently granted custody of his body. There seems to be
remarkably little progress on any kind of investigation, particularly when
you compare to Baltimore where Freddie Gray, the officers that arrested
Freddie Gray were charged within three weeks.

What are you hearing from the sheriff`s department there about what the
status of this investigation is?

CRUMP: Well, the only thing we know is that they are investigating.
That`s what they have continued to tell the family and the public. And it
really doesn`t make sense when you compare it to Freddie Gray where they
don`t have a video of the entire incident with the tragedy of Tamir Rice
you have a video that captures the entire tragedy.

And so you -- there`s no justification why it`s taken so long to make a
decision in Tamir Rice`s case, other than if you believe they are
intentionally just delaying so they can try to sweep his death under the

HAYES: Do you think that`s the case?

CRUMP: Well, that`s normally the case. The standard operating procedure
that I`ve found in cases I`ve done all over America. You just continue to
sense an investigation going on, it`s an ongoing investigation, and you
just keep reporting the same line until people stop asking.

But people are not going to forget about Tamir Rice. This was a 12-year-
old child that was killed on video and it breaks your heart every time you
watch that video.

HAYES: There have been reports, I believe it was about two weeks back,
that Tamir Rice`s mother was in fairly dire economic straits, that she
actually had
found herself in a shelter. Can you give an update on the financial status
of the Rice family?

CRUMP: Well, there`s been an outpouring of donations and support for
Tamir`s family. His mother -- you have to remember, Chris, Tamir was
killed a block away from his house. Every time they walked out of their
front door, they got a vivid reminder of where this tragedy took place,
where she lost her baby boy. And so psychologically, it had a great effect
on her and she put in for new housing and, you know, sometimes bureaucracy
can take a long time to actually have her moved.

And it just became too much where she said she had to get out of there and
so she went to a homeless shelter. And now she`s into another apartment.
And she`s trying to make it the best she can, her and her other children.

But it`s extremely difficult when you have to deal with this ongoing
investigation and you are still trying to greet the loss of a 12-year-old

HAYES: All right, Benjamin Crump thank you so much for joining me. I
really appreciate it.

CRUMP: Thank you.


HAYES: Still ahead, the sprawling summer movie season has been kicked off
by a feminist friendly nonstop action film Mad Max, but is there a dearth
of originality in Hollywood? all In the movies up next.


HAYES: Hollywood has never gotten particularly high marks on its
relationship with women: how seldom good leading roles are written for
women, how
they are sometimes treated by the studio system, how their pay compares to
that of
men, but Oscar-nominated actress Maggie Gyllenhaal has shared a doozie,
telling The Wrap, quote, "there are things that are really disappointing
about being an actress in Hollywood that surprise me all the time. I`m 37.
I was told recently I was too
old to play the lover of a man who was 55. It was astonishing to me. It
made me feel bad, then it made me feel angry and then it made me laugh."
Which brings to mind a scene from Inside Amy Schumer, in which A-list
actresses explain signs the media sees them as too old.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know how Sally Field was Tom Hank`s love interest
in Punchline and then like 20 minutes later she was his mom in Forrest
Gump, or you go to a movie set, you go to wardrobe and the only thing they
have for you to wear are long sweaters, like cover you up head to toe kind
of thing.

UNIDENITFIED FEMALE: I didn`t get this commercial last week for AARP
because the director said I was too old to play Larry King`s wife.


HAYES: All In the movies, next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Max. My woman is fire and blood.



HAYES: There`s more consensus on Mad Max: Fury Road than there is on
global warming. Mad Max: Fury Road currently has a 98 percent rating on
Rotten Tomatoes, a website that surveys hundreds of film critics. That is
just one percentage point higher than the percentage of actively published
climate scientists who agree that humans are causing global climate change.

The movie is post Apocalyptic madness Tom Hardy taking over the role of
Max from Mel Gibson due to, as Grandland suggests, Mel Gibson`s
age/schedule/lingering radioactive.

And Charlize Theron, who according to NRP thanked director George Miller
for creating such a strong character saying, quote, "I always have this
little voice in my head of George going, well now I`m going to show you a
real woman."

As excited as folks are for Mad Max, there are probably just as many people
out there who will wait in line this holiday weekend for the remake of
Poltergeist and a blockbuster starring George Clooney based on an
attraction at Disneyland.

Two of our favorite movie reviewers will joins me to talk about why a good
original idea seems to be a scary thing for Hollywood next.


HAYES: All right, joining me now, Jason Bailey, film editor at FlavorWire,
and and Christopher John Farley, senior editorial director at Wall Street

All right, Mad Max, you guys have both seen?

Are you in the Rotten Tomatoes 98 percent?


HAYES: No, I mean in the consensus, like the thumbs up?

BAILEY: Definitely.

HAYES: OK. People -- I have a theory about Mad Max. I think Mad Max in
the last week has filled the void left by Mad Men in like among the like
chattering critical class.

BAILEY: Absolutely.

HAYES: It has like -- all the stuff being written about Mad Men has now
turn to go Mad Max because people who write criticism who write on the
internet love this g-d movie so much. Why?

BAILEY: Well, it`s a classic opportunity of an example -- you know, of a
chance to see what is on the face of it pop entertainment, what is a big,
expensive, blow em up action summer movie, but yet there`s all of this
interesting subtext, there`s all of this stuff to dig out of it. There are
so many interesting ways to look at this movie and so many things that it`s
doing that you don`t expect to see when you go to the multiplex.

related theory. You know, like Don Draper says, nostalgia can be difficult
but potent. And I think it`s what we`re seeing, it`s nostalgia for the old
Mad Max back when Mel Gibson starred in it.

We don`t want Mel Gibson to star in anything else anymore, so we now have
Charlize Theron. She`s really the star of this film. It`s really about
her. It`s really her story turned into a feminist tale.

And I think this summer at the movies, women are really getting more of a
chance than usual. Because look at what the number one movie has been for
a while:
Pitch Perfect 2.

HAYES: Pitch Perfect 2 and Mad Max were the huge winners last weekend.
Everyone is describing Mad Max as a feminist action movie, a feminist
summer action movie. And my favorite detail is that Eve Ensler, author of
-- the writer of the Vagina Monologues was a consultant on it.

Why is it -- explain the feminism to me.

BAILEY: I mean, basically, the journey of the film, as he said, you know,
the title is what the title is. But Charlize Theron is the star of the
movie. It is her story. And it a story of a woman who is helping to
empower other women.

HAYES: Who are basically oppressed, enslaved...

BAILEY: Yeah, who are basically sex slaves. And the Eve Ensler detail
seems totally weird until you see the movie when it makes absolute sense.

She was brought on to consult to the manner with which they were treating
victims of sexual violence. So there`s...

HAYES: That is amazing. Like, someone also -- also a director actually
caring in the context of like a big -- like the film, like how are we
treating, you
know, victims of sexual...

FARLEY; I`m going to pass on explaining the feminism in it, because I
of the three guys around the table, my 9-year-old daughter can explain
feminism (inaudible) she`ll probably leap through to TV and stop me.

HAYES: So, the other thing about this film that I saw a number of people
note, which I thought was fascinating was there`s a bunch of people talking
about the effects and how non-CGI it was. And I read an interview with
someone that worked on the film -- I don`t know if the director -- talking
about they built all that stuff, right? There`s a guy -- there`s like a
guitar player. He`s got like a fire shooting guitar, and they actually
rigged up a guitar that shoots fire.

These vehicles you seeing are actual vehicles that got built. And I do
really think there`s something, too, like I think we have grown weary of
the almost kind of like the flattening marginal returns of insane CGI

And that there`s -- like now there`s this incredible pop to actual physical

FARLEY: I think we do long for real danger. We know to know that stunt
men and stunt women actually did something worthy of their names.

If you go back and watch the original Mad Max, I mean the second one...

HAYES: Someone died.

FARLEY: Right -- we don`t want to see that happen.

HAYES: I`d choose CGI over that.

FARLEY: We don`t want to spoil anything that happens here. But it is
impressive to see real things happen, because after a while, the crazy over
the top CGI effects, because they risk so much, we know they`re not real.
We know that can`t happen.

HAYES: That`s right. That can`t happen, right.

BAILEY: And we`re really seeing it I think amongst fans especially of
genre films along for the return of practical effects, one of the key
points that we`re in advance about the new Star Wars movie is that JJ
Abrams is making a big deal of the fact that they`re using...

They`re building the little robots, they`re sort of retreating from the
entirely green screen world that George Lucas created in the prequels.

FARLEY: But the true special effect in Mad Max really is Charlize Theron.
I mean, her acting. She draws. She makes it real. She grounds it. If
she`s not there, we don`t care what`s around her.

HAYES: Other stuff. There`s this Tomorrowland movie that`s opening. This
is a movie about a ride at Disneyland with George Clooney? Is that the
(inaudible) version?

BAILEY: It`s sort of vaguely inspired by the spirit of that ride, but it`s
not about people going to Disneyland and getting on the ride if that`s

HAYES: Is it any good?

FARLEY: Well, here`s the thing, again, women are at the center of this.
Brit Robertson, a fine young actress. She`s at the center of the film.
George Clooney may be billed at the top, but it`s really her story and the
story of another young actress, Raferty Cassidy who plays -- I don`t want
to give it away, but she plays Athena in the movie. And she`s also quite

So, it`s good movie to take girls to, to take your daughters to, for women
to go see. It`s something different at the movie houses than we usually
see over the Memorial Day weekend.

HAYES: And Poltergeist, quickly?

BAILEY: You`ve seen it. It`s got the...

HAYES: I saw it when I Poltergeist is what you`re saying?

BAILEY: Exactly. It has got the essential problem of why did they bother
remake, which is they don`t bring -- it`s always going to suffer in

FARLEY: Horror movies have moved on since Poltergeist was first released
in 1982. This movie is still mired in 1982. People won`t care that much.

HAYES: Let me say this, I haven`t seen Pitch Perfect 2, but I saw Pitch
Perfect 1 on a plane, and man was that a good movie. That was a really
good movie. So I want to see Pitch Perfect 2.

BAILEY: It`s a huge achievement that it made that kind of return on that

HAYES: All right, Jason Bailey, Christopher John Farley, thanks for
joining us. Have a great weekend. That is All In for this evening.


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