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The Ed Show for Thursday, May 28th, 2015

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Date: May 28, 2015
Guest: Mark Pocan, Scott Paul, Lanny Davis, Dan Holler, Caroline Heldman,
Heidi Harris, Nina Turner


HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: ... being negotiated yet.
I do have concern.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Hillary Clinton can be for the trade
agreement. She`d be against the trade agreement. And they don`t have an

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Plus, the horse race.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The GOP race has at least 19 candidates who have
declared or signal they might run.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very crowded field.

SCHULTZ: Later, the Duggar dilemma.

you had the support of Duggar family.

FMR. SEN RICK SANTORUM, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: We had that revelation last
week. I was just wondering what reaction. I was sickened by it.

SCHULTZ: And viral video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not often use your head and it goes we saw at the end.
Everybody can play together, everybody compose this together man.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.

We start tonight with the Bernie bump. Bernie Sanders has been on the
campaign trail for only two days and he`s already giving Hillary Clinton`s
campaign some real headaches. During a campaign event in New Hampshire,
his first stop since his official announcement. Senator Sanders spoke with
clarity on the Trans-Pacific Partnership.


SANDERS: I am helping right now as we speak to lead the opposition to this
Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement.

Now, Hillary Clinton can be for the trade agreement -- the president is.
She can be against the trade agreement. I am, Elizabeth Warren and many
others of us are.

But I just don`t know how you don`t have an opinion on this enormously
important issue.


SCHULTZ: This is the only sound bite that America wants to hear right now
because this is the depressing issue. Now, that is speaking with clarity
and that what campaigns are supposed to be about, to let people know
exactly where you`re on key issues. Senator Sanders is leading the
opposition against the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Meanwhile, we have no idea where Hillary stands on trade. We get a lot of
parameters, but we don`t get absolutes. Clinton has said that she has some
concerns about the TTP. But overall let be serious, this is her main
taking point.


CLINTON: I have said that I`m going to, you know, make up my mind. I`ve
been for trade agreements, I`ve been against trade agreements, voted for
some, voted against others. So, I want to judge this when I see what`s
exactly is in it and whether or not I think it meets my standards.


SCHULTZ: Well, respectfully Mrs. Clinton. You were in the United States
Senate. The United States Senate has already voted on the trade agreement.
They`ve voted last week, and it was passing. No, question about it. Now,
it`s up to the House and there`s a lot of Democrats in the House right now
that want to know where the leading candidates stands on what is going to
be a massive trade deal for this country.

Now, Hillary`s position on trade I think is anything but clear. She`s
outlined what she wants in a deal. She`s outline what she wants in a trade
deal. But she wants to see exactly what`s in it. Well, hasn`t the Senate
seen what`s in it? She want`s to see it before she makes a decision. Give
me break.

Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State when this deal was being negotiated.
I find it hard to believe that the Secretary of State is so in the dark
about the TTP. I agree with Senator Sanders. I find it hard to believe
that Hillary Clinton can`t come to the some kind of conclusion on this an
absolute, not a parameter of what she`s looking for.

The Clinton campaign is hoping that the House will vote on Fast-Track A-S-
A-P so they don`t have to deal with this trade issue anymore. Clinton
refusal to take a stand on certain issues starting to chip away at her lead
in the polls as well, over the past month I know we`re long way away. But
she`s going on the wrong direction. Hillary Clinton lost three points on
her lead. Bernie Sanders has jumped 7 points. He`s now at 15 percent. Is
this a trend of a bump?

Now with the eight months to go until the first primarily Hillary Clinton
shouldn`t be taking anything for granted. We`ve been down this road

POLITICO reported today that Hillary Clinton`s campaign is "Frightened of
Sanders. Not that he would win the nomination, but he could damage her
with the activist base by challenge her on core progressive positions in
debates and make her look like a centrist of corporatist".

Is that what campaigns were all about? Frightened, frightened about the
truth. I find that hard to believe. It`s not just trade. Hillary Clinton
has been silent on other issue like the Keystone XL pipeline. It`s
important to point out Hillary Clinton`s campaign website. It does not
have an issues page. I saw that today, you know, I just found that

Senator Sanders`s website has had an issues tab from the start. So, when
do Democrats get to play fair with one another and say "OK, enough is
enough, the House is getting ready to vote on this. The Senate is already
voted on it. Let`s get an answer".

We`re coming down to the 11th hour on trade in this Congress. Democratic
voters deserve to know where Hillary Clinton`s stands on trade and the
Trans-Pacific Partnership. It`s time for an absolute. We`ve got an
absolute from Bernie Sanders. We have not in fairness, we have not got an
absolute from Hillary Clinton and there`s a lot of people that want to
know, if she was still on the Senate, how would you voted Mrs. Clinton.

Is this Bill Clinton`s influence on his wife? He was a free trader. He
was for NAFTA. So, what`s going on here? Why can`t we get the absolute
answer from Hillary Clinton? Is this loyalty to her former boss, President
Obama? That`s a question in itself. When President Obama was in the
United States Senate, he said that he was going to do something about
currency manipulation.

Well, guess what. This trade deal doesn`t have anything in it about
currency manipulation. It doesn`t have anything about investor`s state
trade dispute or circumventing American law. Why the hell that we even
have representatives in Washington, if we`re going to let International
Tribunals tell us how we have to do trade. It`s wrong. This should be a
slam dunk from Hillary Clinton. It is going to be very hard for her and
there`s going to be a lot of people who were going to remember that she
didn`t take a complete stand on trade before the House voted.

Now, if this is causing political problems for Hillary Clinton. Why in the
world would John Boehner bring it to the floor for a vote? Why not make
sure Hillary Clinton takes a stand on this. I would venture to say that
maybe the Republicans would rather go against Bernie Sanders than Hillary
Clinton. So there`s a lot of political calculations taking place right

There`s only one sound bite that this broadcaster wants to hear from
Hillary Clinton right now and that is where she stands absolutely, just
like every union worker in this country stands absolutely oppose to the
Trans-Pacific Partnership. This should not be that hard.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Is the TTP going to cause political problems for Hillary

Go to to cast your vote. We`ll bring you the result
later on in the show.

So, what are they saying in the middle of county. Let bring in Wisconsin
Congressman Mark Pocan who sits on the House Budget Committee, also with us
tonight Scott Paul President of the Alliance for American Manufacturing,
gentlemen great to have you with us tonight.

Congressman, I want to know what your constituents are saying in Wisconsin
in the middle of the country. Are they even aware of Fast-Track and TPP,
and are they paying attention to it?

REP. MARK POCAN, (D) WISCONSIN: Ed, they`re very aware of it, just a
couple weeks ago I had listing sessions in six counties. I think every
single listing session. This came up as an issue. In fact in Lafayette
County, the biggest town in Lafayette County is 2,400 people. They just
lost a company with 36 jobs that`s going to Mexico and they`ve applied for
trade adjustment assistance. So we`re still seeing that. If you think
about that, that 36 jobs in Darlington is like losing 3,600 jobs in Madison
also in my district.

So, this is a big issue people talk about everyone Democrats or Republican
should be standing against a trade deal that we don`t know enough about and
doesn`t have protections for labor environment had this tribunals, doesn`t
have currency manipulation go on and list. There`s many reason to oppose

SCHULTZ: Congressman. Do your constituents in Wisconsin in the middle of
country. Are they curious about President Obama`s reversal on this? Are
they talking about it?

POCAN: I`ve got several times while we do the listing session again as an
example, why does the White House support this? And, you know, I think
this question was asked of the gentleman who did trade for President Reagan
who now opposes these trade deals. He said everything they`re promised
back then didn`t come to fruition. And now, he think this is a bad route
for American and he`s analysis was that the White House, no matter who`s
President, often looks at this for geopolitical reasons and we have allies
in the region and how do you give something to your allies in a region
especially where China is such a dominate economic force?

The problem is that ignores what I care about most which is that we`re
going to lose more jobs here in the United States and we`re going to have
wages depress right here at home. To me that is exactly what happens every
time we have a trade deal that doesn`t have the proper protections and
that`s why anyone should oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership...


POCAN: ... if it doesn`t have those things. And I can tell you it doesn`t
right now.

SCHULTZ: You know, this isn`t about playing political favorites. I want
the audience watching the Ed Show tonight to know. This isn`t about Bernie
Sanders. It`s not about Hillary Clinton. It`s not about President Obama.
It`s about those folks out there across American who are in this American
economy and their future and their stability. That`s what this issue
about. It`s not about choosing of sides. This is an issue and it`s not a
cheap shot nor is it negative to step up and say "OK, where does this
candidate stand on something that is going to be so huge to our global
economy. Where is American going with this?"

Now Scott Paul, you have recently written an op-ed and you wrote about
President Obama when he was a Senator running for the White House.
President Obama, Barack Obama said he didn`t get -- that he`d get tough on
currency. But now with an opportunity to do something about it as
President he`s change his tune. What do you make of that Mr. Paul?

more of the Barack Obama of 2007 and a little less of what we`re seeing
today. If he was true to his words in 2007 and I would add if Senator
Clinton is true to the words that she spoke back in 2007 as well. Could be
no doubt that this process the TPA, the Fast-Track authority and the
agreement the Trans-Pacific Partnership would look a lot different than
they are today and that they would represent the interest of working

The challenge has been that -- and I think Rep. Pocan pointed this out that
this is become about geopolitics. I think that`s a flawed argument. It`s
become about Wall Street. And it`s losing touch with working people across

Ed, I would just add that -- the clarity is simple to happen. I mean Rick
Santorum who announce for president yesterday penned an op-ed.

POCAN: Yeah.

PAUL: In March calling for -- dealing with currency manipulation and trade
deals a very specifically. There`s an amended that narrowly passed last
week that could have a game changer on this. Ed, I would like to hear
Senator Clinton talk in the way that she did during the 2007 campaign about
this with greater clarity. And I`ll just say this...


PAUL: ... I think voters in Iowa and New Hampshire expect an answer. I
think they`ll be asking her consistently and I hope they receive one.

SCHULTZ: Well, the Clinton campaign, I`m getting a sense if they want this
vote in the House to take place ASAP so they get say "Well, it`s already
passed and this is the way it is so we`ll have to deal with it moving
forward". No, I mean this is not a slam dunk in the House right now. And
Congressman the votes aren`t there right now. And this is a huge vacation
or should I say working vacation or recess that the Congress is taking
right now because they`re getting input from folks back home and this is
building. The votes aren`t there or are they Congressman?

POCAN: No, in fact they will pull a vote when the White House and the
Republican leadership and Paul Ryan think they have the votes lined up.
But I could tell on the House Democratic side, there are only maybe 20
people right now who`re at the yes and all of the rest of us are right no
with a...


POCAN: ... small number of undecided. And I can tell you that this is
something that on the Republican side we think we might have at least 60
votes and growing who don`t want to give up our sovereignty through some of
the provision. You talk about the tribunals and other issue. So, this is
not a slam dunk. We`re going to fight this to the last breathe we have.
And I hope that are successful because we`re hearing it from our districts
if people don`t want this. There are simply not real constituents who say
"I think you should pass this".

SCHULTZ: OK. Now back to currency manipulation for a moment. China and
Japan are big players in this deal. Scott Paul, be very clear. They have
a record of currency manipulation, correct? And also that Hillary Clinton
has said that currency manipulation has to be address.

Well, in this trade deal it is not addressed. So, how much more
information does Hillary Clinton have to have to take a definitive stance
on this issue, your thought?

PAUL: Ed, it`s very clear and again this is the Democrats and Republicans
largely agree on. We have American businesses and labor that agree on this
point as well. And even if you don`t think that China and/or Japan are
manipulating their currencies today, just as some smart people say "You
don`t throw away you umbrella when it`s sunny outside because it`s going to
rain again". They have a pattern on this, they have a history. We have
sky high trade deficits with China and Japan. They cause American jobs all
across Wisconsin and Iowa and New Hampshire there are factories that have
shuttered form these unfair trade practices.

And if we truly want a trade agreement that represents 21st century
interest in the interest of working people. It`s got to deal with currency
manipulation. Right now in this country if you`re a hardworking business,
if you`re worker and through no fault of your own you lost your job because
of unfair trade practice like currency manipulation. You have...


PAUL: ... absolutely no recourse, it just happens that`s why we need to
this in trade deals and I would love to hear President Obama to use his
position on this back to what it was on 2007. More importantly I think
it`s important for Senator Clinton to speak out on this, very forcefully
and also very specifically about what she expect.

SCHULTZ: OK, Congressman Mark Pocan, Scott Paul, President Alliance
American Manufacturing, great to have both of you with us tonight.

You know folks this is what a campaign is about, to take a tough issue and
yes, it is a hard choice. But there are absolutes. American jobs and the
American economy is going to be injured if we go down this road. And if
history be your guide there`s not one trade agreement that this country can
turn to even under the Obama years that can say that it hasn`t added to our
trade deficit and that`s American jobs.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at We`ll have
the results right after this break. Follow us on Facebook and you could
watch my Facebook featured "Give me a minute" and of course you can get my
video Podcast at

Coming up, another Republican throws his hat into race. We`ll look at how
the crowded conservative field fairs against the frontrunner Hillary

And later, allegations against Josh Duggar are putting conservatives in a
Duggar dilemma. Rapid Response Panel joins me on the political fallout
from the Duggar scandal. Where do they all stand?

We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And the votes are coming in. Here is where we stand on tonight`s
Bing Pulse poll. Tonight question, "Is the TPP Trans-Pacific Partnership
going to cause political problems for Hillary Clinton?"

There are the numbers. Two-third of you says "Yes". 66 percent say "Yes,
it will". 35 now percent say "No".

We`re coming right back on the Ed Show. Lots more, stay with us.



Exeter, New Hampshire, birthplace of the Republican Party. Abraham
Lincoln`s Party, who saved the Union and who brought the promise of freedom
to all Americans, it is to preserve and protect that freedom that this
morning, I announce I am a candidate for the Republican nomination for
president of the United States.


SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show.

Another dreamer has entered the Republican presidential race. Former New
York Governor George Pataki is officially thrown in his hat into the ring.
And he and the rest of the Republican bunch, I think they got a whole lot
of work to do. There is no strong Republican candidate out there right
now. A new Quinnipiac poll shows Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Mike
Huckabee and Ben Carson all tied for first place at 10 percent. Rand Paul
at 7 percent, Ted Cruz at 6 percent, Donald Trump is at 5 percent.

And the scandal-plagued governor of New Jersey Chris Christie is at 4
percent but of course he hasn`t officially announced. The polling shows
Hillary Clinton is leading against all of these Republicans, Clinton is
leading Rand Paul and Marco Rubio by 4 points she`s up on Huckabee by 7
points, Walker by 8, Christie by 9 and Jeb Bush by 10 points. At this
point in the game the Republican presidential bench is looking pretty weak
nobody is off to a great start.

For more let me bring in Lanny Davis, former White House Special Council
and Vice President of Levick, also with us tonight Dan Holler who is a
Heritage Action for America member, gentlemen great to have you with us


SCHULTZ: Lanny, yes I`m sure you have a heart attack after that last block
but we`re all fair here. I know your big Clinton supporter, I am too I
just want some answers. Dan I want you to ask you first, why is no one
Republican candidate surging here? Is it just too early or we`re excepting
too much what do making this numbers?

DAN HOLLER, HERITAGE ACTION FOR AMERICA: I think it`s really early in the
process, Ed. I mean, what the Republican Party is doing right now is
undergoing a thorough process. It`s something that the Democrats are not
doing yet, Hillary Clinton running away from all these questions. But
republicans are taking their time there`s no sense of urgency, there`s no
rush at the end of the nomination process a good candidate is going to
emerge and I think that candidate is going to be very competitive with
Hillary Clinton.

SCHULTZ: OK, so you don`t make anything about the numbers early on and
nobody is jumping out, what`s going to separate this candidates on the
right as you see it right now Dan?

HOLLER: Yeah, we`re going to start to see that and I think over the course
the next several months. And one of the things it could separate it is a
point that you made about Hillary Clinton Ed, Hillary is very much of a
corporatist Democrat and the Republican candidate that can step out
articulate a clear coherent vision about why Hillary Clinton is bad for
hard working Americans. I think that candidate will emerge and be very
tough and head to head polling with Hillary Clinton by the end of the

SCHULTZ: Do you think that she has a Bernie Sanders problem Dan?

HOLLER: She has a Hillary Clinton problem. If you look at those poll
numbers that you just popped on the screen, she is an average of 46 percent
against these Republicans not of whom are really gaining a traction at the
national level. She is defined, everybody knows what they`re getting with
her and it`s very apparent they don`t really like it.

SCHULTZ: Lanny Davis, what do you make it this Republican feel, why is
there no early front run at all what familiar names like Bush why, why
there`s nobody doing better in 10 percent?

DAVIS: So, I sympathize with Dan. Here`s what`s he`s looking at. The
Republicans are loosing in every poll to Hillary Clinton and he just try to
make that good news. The Republicans are using the expression corporatist
about a party that opposes raising the minimum wages, has uniformly had
stance against working people. And it don`t exactly rejected corporate
wealth and tax policies that they talked about (ph). And he`s going to now
make the Republican Party into the party of the populous worker. This is a
real challenge and I admire his effort to take very bad news and turn it
into good news.

SCHULTZ: All right, Lanny is Hillary losing a little bit of ground to
Bernie Sanders in the recent poll, is the Clinton camp worried about all
the trade talked that is going on and being clear on this. What do you
make a bit?

DAVIS: Well, first of all Bernie Sanders inspires me, he`s a great
progressive Democrat if he`s starts from a small number and goes to a
double digit number it shows that he take stands that people admire and I
think that Hillary Clinton will be strengthen by having progressives to
debate but their difference of opinion will be narrow compared to the
Republicans. We have so many different opinions among the Republicans that
we actually have Donald Trump getting 5 percent.

I would love to make that 5 percent or for Donald Trump for president. So
really the answer to your question, Bernie Sanders is going to do very
well, I think Governor O`Malley and we have a big progressive umbrella in
our party, but we`re all progressive Democrats. We may have some
differences but they`re minor compared to the Republicans.

SCHULTZ: Lanny, what about this story in the POLITICO that the Clinton
camp is frightened about Bernie Sanders not that he would the nomination,
but because of the strong positions he`s taking with progressives and that
would somewhat possibly put Hillary in a position that might not be
advantageous to her against the Republicans. What do you make to that?

DAVIS: Well, first of all I read that story carefully to see what where
the story is for the Clinton camp. If you actually...


DAVIS: ... look at who they`re quoting, there two or three people who say
"I`m worry about Bernie Sanders" and of course worrying means respecting
and I respect Bernie Sanders. But there`s no worry we want vigorous debate
in the Democratic Party and I have no idea who knows people are, but they
don`t represent the majority the people that I associate with who want a
vigorous debate on the Democratic side...


DAVIS: ... among a people who had differences on issues. That`s good for
us not bad for us.

SCHULTZ: Dan, what about 53 percent of Americans saying that Hillary
Clinton is not honest and trustworthy. Is this a hard numbers that you
believe in, or is this just the conservative media blitz that has just been
relentless on Hillary since she is announced? What do you make to that

HOLLER: Yeah, I think there`s a whole lot more to this number and I think
if that number is going to continue to get worst for her. The challenge
she`s going to have let say I know politician aren`t not trustworthy at all
but, looking my leadership quality that`s going to be called the question
too. But I think going back to your point out Bernie Sanders is important.
This debate is going to flash out Hillary Clinton for who she is. She went
out her way last week to defend the Boeing and G.E. and the Chamber of
Commerce on the export import bank.

This is Hillary Clinton the progressive Democrat going out and siding with
Boeing and G.E. in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. There`s going to be a
Republican nominee who slats her down for taking corporate welfare or
showing for corporate welfare and your going to twist the whole entire
debate around on it`s head and I`m not sure what Lanny`s is going to do
with that point.

SCHULTZ: OK. Lanny, what about that?

DAVIS: What I`m going to do is absolutely comical to hear a Republican
conservative talked about the Chamber of Commerce. The last time I looked
there weren`t very many progressive Democrats that the Chamber of Commerce
was supporting. So, let`s at least stick on making issues.

HOLLER: They may support Hillary next time at this rate. You never know.

DAVIS: Well, I tried not to interrupt you I was really tempted so let me
finish. The trustworthy issue is no question that when you`re pounded over
and over again that you`re going to be hit on those kinds of issues. But
if you compare her trust numbers to any of the Republicans you`ll find
their comparable or better, so...


DAVIS: ... this general distrust. Take a look at the data my friend
there`s general distrust...

SCHULTZ: All right.

DAVIS: ... the politicians in Washington. There`s no question that
Hillary Clinton has taken a hit because of all these media and yet she is
still beating despite everything every Republican which my friend...

SCHULTZ: All right.

DAVIS: ... hasn`t able to explain other than "Oh well, it`s just for now
and I agree polls are much to early to judge but it is...


DAVIS: ... comical to hear bad news being made into goodness.

SCHULTZ: And we will leave at there, Lanny Davis, Dan Holler.

DAVIS: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight. Appreciate the conversations.

Still to come, the Duggar`s family close ties the conservatives put
Republican candidates on the hot seat

And next, the clean up continues after flooding devastates Texas again.
We`ll have an update from the ground.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show.

At least 23 people are confirmed dead after days of heavy downpours and
massive flooding in Texas and Oklahoma. Many people are still missing.

MSNBC`s Craig Melvin has the latest on the devastating effects in the power
of water.



CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: The video captures what words cannot, the
sheer power of water.

It`s a sight that even surprised a veteran of storm like at "Today Show`s"
Al Roker.

AL ROKER, TODAY`S SHOW HOST: When we found this video that is just it
gives you a sense of the power of the water. It`s at Blanco River
exploding into this woman house. Just listen to this.


ROKER: Can you imagine? You`re on the upper level of your home looking at


ROKER: Unbelievable.


MELVIN: Littered around the hardest hit areas reminders of the strength of
Mother Nature`s fury, massive trees pulled right from the ground. Houses
torn off their foundations and those homes not swept away left ripped apart
from the inside out. And then there were the cars, all those cars left
abandoned after the flood waters trapped hundreds of people on the roads.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. Stop. Stop. Now, he needs to get out.

MELVIN: How can this happen? Well, just six inches of flowing water can
knock a person off their feet. Two feet of water moving at about four
miles per hour can float a car and damage your home. At the height of the
storms over the past few days, the Blanco River crested above 40 feet.
More than tripled the flood stage of 13 feet, to put that added water in
perspective, it`s enough to bury Rhode Island under 10 feet of water,
enough to meet New York City`s water needs for seven years.

That amount of water in that small amount of time in an area that has seen
a large population growth in flood prone areas made for a perfect storm.
But the numbers cannot capture the human toll.

A father`s words captured that, Tomas Ramirez describing the final
conversation with his daughter Alyssa as she was trapped in her car.

TOMAS RAMIREZ, FATHER OF FLOOD VICTIM: As said honey what`s going on she`s
said "Dad, what I do then, my car has been hit the water. What I do, what
I do?" I said "We`ll back the car up, back to car up". She goes, "I can`t
daddy the car is tipping."

And I said "I`m on my way" and that`s the last I got to speak to her.


SCHULTZ: Absolutely devastating, our thoughts and prayers with all of
those folks, down in Texas and Oklahoma who are going through that.

We`ll have more on the Ed Show right after this.

Market Wrap.

Stocks end lower. The DOW sinks 36 points, the S&P off by 2, the NASDAQ
falls by 8 points.

The number of Americans filing for jobless benefits rose last week, claims
increased by 7,000 to 282, 000. Economists expected a decline.

Pending home sales jump more than 3 percent in April to hit a 9-year high.

And COSTCO shares finished lower after its latest earnings report. The
company`s profit came in better than expected, but the revenue fell short.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.

Just one day after officially announcing his second presidential campaign.
Former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum was asked about the allegations
against his former supporter Josh Duggar.


STEPHANOPOULOS: This last time around when you ran, you had the support of
the Duggar family.

JOSH DUGGAR: Senator Rick Santorum will fight for small businesses and
bring American jobs back home.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We had that revelation last week. I was just wondering
what your reaction.

SANTORUM: I was sickened by it. I was just sickened by it. I pray for
those girls in particular. To have gone through that is -- just hard to
think about.


SCHULTZ: It`s a stark contrast. The former Arkansas Governor Mike
Huckabee`s response last week, when he reaffirmed his support for the
Duggar family saying "Good people make mistakes and do regrettable and even
discussing things". Huckabee and Santorum aren`t the only Republicans who
have a robbed the elbows with the "19 Kids and Counting" star in an attempt
to court social conservatives.

In fact nearly every 2016 Republican presidential candidate has post for a
photo with Duggar at various conservative events.

Over the years, Josh Duggar conservative, Christian, ultraconservative
brand became a photo op for some of the Republican Party`s most prominent
leaders to signal their allegiance to the religious right. So, where is
the outrage? Aside from Huckabee and Santorum, there`s a calculated
silence coming from the crowd of GOP hopefuls who once cozied up to the
Duggar`s for votes.

Joining me tonight in our Rapid Response Panel Caroline Heldman, Professor
of Politics in Occidental College, and also with us tonight Radio Talk Show
Host Heidi Harris, great to have both of you with us.

Heidi what`s going on here? I mean, it seem to me that Rick Santorum was
very clear in his position but their silence from those who used Duggar as
a photo op, to cozy up to Christian conservatives in the past. Is this a

HEIDI HARRIS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I`m not sure if they know what
to say. Let me go on record to saying that when you look at the hierarchy
of what I consider horrible, anytime you lay a hand on a child, that`s the
top of my list. So you`re never going to catch me defending anybody who
laid hand on the child.

I`ve read the complaint of the investigator report. I`m sure you have too.
It`s pretty reprehensible. Everybody knows that and I don`t know why they
had the people in the GOP, even really have an obligation to say anything
one way or the other. They distance themselves from to him. I don`t know
what else to do. It`s not their fault that he did this. They didn`t know
about it.

It wasn`t as if they`ve known about it? They covered for him and yet they
cozied up for him. They didn`t know anything about it.

SCHULTZ: What about that Caroline? Do they have an obligation to their
constituents to make sure they are crystal clear on this after using
Duggar`s image and the family`s image in the past as family values?

they have a moral obligation to do so, but I think that there are some very
clear electoral disincentives for them coming forward. Mostly because
we`re talking about evangelicals who comprise 26 percent of the electorate,
but more importantly about half of primary Republican voters are
evangelicals. And unfortunately, Mike Huckabee stance on this is very
consistent with evangelical voter`s position.

The idea that you can simply deal with things within the family that you
can pray about things, you can ask for forgiveness and that that is enough.
I of course, do not think that is enough. I`m proud of Rick Santorum for
at least coming out and speaking about the girls who are harmed. I wish he
had gone further and really condemn Josh Duggar`s actions here. But I`m
not at all surprise if the Republican candidates are quiet about this
because they`re afraid of losing votes.

SCHULTZ: Mike Huckabee told People Magazine back in January, he said,
"I`ve pointed the Duggar`s out as an example of something that`s wholesome
and wonderful." Is that going to come back to hunt him in his presidential
campaign Heidi, what do you think?

HARRIS: Well, you know, the thing is you can`t really hold anybody up this
perfect. I don`t care what family you are in and by the way, they`ve got
19 kids, so far one is in trouble. That`s a pretty good ration. Most
people I know, it`s a lot lower than that. And I`m not defending them once

HELDMAN: There are fewer rapists. There are fewer sexual assault there`s

HARRIS: No, no, no.

HELDMAN: ... is that what you`re saying?

HARRIS: No, that`s not what I`m saying. My point is that every family has
stuff and for anybody to hold the Duggar`s up is any kind of symbol of

HELDMAN: This is felony offense.

HARRIS: ... is a mistake.

HARRIS: This is a serial sex offender.

HARRIS: I understand that. I`m saying they shouldn`t withheld the
Duggar`s up is a perfect family to begin with. Every family has stuff.
Big shock, he`s got problems. OK, I know that. I`m not defending it for
one second. But the point is...

HELDMAN: Well, what point in family problems in because we`re talking
about a felony offense not "Family problems." That is a really problematic
thing (inaudible) with this issue.

HARRIS: I understand that, then he should have been prosecuted and he
hasn`t been and that`s not a question that GOP has to answer. That`s a
question for the authorities where the Duggars live. Why are you blaming
the GOP for that? That`s not their fault.

HELDMAN: Because they embrace Josh Duggar.

SCHULTZ: Well, the GOP is using his as a prop in the past.

HARRIS: Wrong. Wrong. They did not embrace him when they knew this.
They did not embrace him after they knew these charges. None of them have
done that. That is a lie.

HELDMAN: I didn`t say that.


HELDMAN: I said that they embraced him for years.

HARRIS: Well, they didn`t know what he was up to.

SCHULTZ: Heidi, you don`t think that they have to distance themselves. I
mean even after the father kind of rejected (ph) under the rug until a
statute of limitations went out when he knew about it. And then was out
doing all the Christian conservative tight platform in advocacy that was
going on, when he knew what was going on. And now the Republican
candidates aren`t -- they`re silent on it. That`s the amazing.

They`re maybe, you know, you`ve got Huckabee saying what he`s saying. You
got Santorum saying what he`s saying. Santorum had to say it because he
was in front of a national news man in George Stephanopoulos. And the rest
of them, I think, have an obligation to make sure that what they understand
about the brand of family values, your take.

HARRIS: Well, listen you`ve got people like Lena Dunham who admitted she
molested her own sister in her book. And you`ve got people on the left
like President Obama and Mrs. Obama who have taken pictures with her and
when they found out what she did to her little sister, they didn`t distance
themselves. Where is the elect (ph) on that and I`m not equating the two,
I`m merely saying there are people who going to come...


HARRIS: ... into contact within your life who do bad things and you`re not
responsible for them. You step away if you decide that what they`re doing
is not what you want. But you can`t go back and force everybody to
apologize that they ever knew you. How can you do that?

SCHULTZ: Well, they could say right now that they certainly aren`t going
to have a picture with him anymore. That would probably be a good starter,
great to have both of you with us tonight. Caroline Heldman and Heidi
Harris, I appreciate your time.

Still to come, video of Community Policing Done Right, it goes viral.
We`ll look at the challenges other cities faced to bridge the gap between
the community and law enforcement, the cops,

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we have some Breaking News at this moment to report. Former
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert has just been indicted on federal
charges related to illegally transferring funds in an effort to avoid being
detected by the Internal Revenue Service and for lying to the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. The indictment alleges Hastert withdrew large
sums of money in order to "Compensate for and conceal his prior misconduct
against an individual, someone he allegedly promised to pay $3.5 million."

Hastert who spent 20 years in the House as Republican from Illinois was
elected speaker in 1999.

Stay tuned. MSNBC continues with the Ed Show, right after this.


SCHULTZ: And in tonight`s two-minute drill, double trouble. Ray
McDonald`s trouble with law continues. The former NFL defensive lineman
was arrested Wednesday on suspicion of violating a restraining order.

The restraining order was issued following his arrest on Monday for
domestic violence and child endangerment charges following an alleged
incident with his former fiance and her child. His attorney says McDonald
did not know about the restraining order.

McDonald was released by the Chicago Bears earlier this week on Monday.
The team signed him in March after he was released by the San Francisco
49ers following separate domestic violence allegations.

In the Minnesota Vikings kicked off their organized team activities this
week. One man who was not on the field an in for (ph) Minnesota was
running back Adrian Peterson. Peterson was reinstated to the NFL last
month and given permission to participate in all team activities, but the
running back has been vocal about wanting to play for another team in 2015.
Vikings Head Coach Mike Zimmer isn`t willing to let Peterson go.


choices. He can either play for us or he cannot play. So, he`s not going
to play for anybody else and that`s just the way it`s going to be.


SCHULTZ: Adrian Peterson responded saying that he`s absence is "Business
not personal and it`s about securing his future with the team." He ended
his statement, "Go Vikings." He`s looking for a better contract.

Stick around. There`s a lot more coming up of the Ed Show. We`ll be right


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Clashes between police officers and people in urban communities has really
been dominating the news and the headlines as of late. And it`s pretty
rare to hear stories of police doing good lately.

One of those rare moments was caught on camera. The gentleman`s name is
Bruce Shields, Jr. He shared a video of the Fargo, North Dakota police
joining a pick-up basketball game while they were training on the bike

So, these officers assigned to the bike patrol were out doing some training
and all of a sudden, this happened.

The officers were driving by the hard court. And they said, you know,
let`s do some community policing. Let`s get into a basketball game with
the fellows. And the next thing, you know, a pick-up game broke out. And
the cops took on the local kids. Bicycle cops.

Not, I don`t know exactly what community policing is all about but maybe
there`s some kind of message here, that if the cop stop and do what the
kids are doing and show some interest in them, who cares who wins. There`s
a lot of folks winning under the bucket on that one.

In Cleveland, Ohio, issues caused by over-policing have led the Department
of Justice to mandate some changes. The DOJ`s 110 page settlement is one
of the most extensive sets of restrictions ever place on a law enforcement
agency. The agreement requires Cleveland`s police to adopt hundreds of new
policies to fix what the federal government called "a pattern of systemic
abuses and unconstitutional practices."

Leadership of the city`s police union is not on board with all the changes.
Cleveland Police Patrolmen Association President Steve Loomis told the
report, "It`s going to get somebody killed, there`s going to be a time when
someone isn`t going to want to do that paperwork. So he`s going to keep
that gun in its holster."

I`m joined tonight by Nina Turner, former Ohio State Senator who has been
stalwart supporter of trying to get positive change taken place in
communities when it comes to law enforcement interacting with communities.
Senator, good to have you with us tonight, what`s your response...


SCHULTZ: ... to Loomis saying that more paper work is going to get
somebody killed. What about that?

TURNER: Well, I`m shaking my head hard Ed, you know, we need -- this is
the time we need to build in relationships between police and the community
and you cannot have the president of the police union in Cleveland said
things like that. Police -- and that`s one of the reasons why the citizens
are so upset right now because there seems to be unwillingness among the
police union that they don`t want to admit when police officers are wrong.
And we have to begin to be able to admit that so that the healing can
begin. So I`m very -- I know I know Mr. Loomis and I`m very disappointed
that he would say something like that.

SCHULTZ: What`s the best part of these new measures as you can see it
moving forward?

TURNER: I think the building of the community review board that`s going to
be set up, the mandate that the community and police have to come together
bringing accounting to the community to build in a mutual trust.

Ed, I think the strongest words in that report happen in the introduction
when they said that this is about mutual trust, and that mutual trust has
to be in enduring. And that really is what this situation is about. This
is bigger than 137 shots, Ed. This goes into the DNA of not only the city
of Cleveland the state of Ohio but in this nation, and Americas chocolate
citizens are crying out for justice yet again. We can get there. This is
a very real and wonderful start to what I believe is a healing journey and

SCHULTZ: Nina, heal the black community for us tonight. What has to
happen in these neighborhoods that have got economic issues where there`s a
lot of unemployment, there`s a lot of frustration, schools are being in
shut, budgets are being cut down, and such stuff as that. It makes law
enforcement`s job doubly tough. How do you reverse all these?

TURNER: It does, Ed. Well, by public policy and so we need that to happen
on the local regionals state and federal levels of government. This didn`t
begin with the police and you`re absolutely right, we need to do something
about poverty in communities of color and there are poor white communities
as well in Appalachia.

We need to make sure that we put people back to work and that means that
again Ed, everything starts at the ballot box and we got to put people in
office really, really did, the education is the pathway, making sure that
we put folks who are in the prime time of the working years back to work.
We cannot continue to sustain a society when the majority of folks, we are
squeezing the middle class and the working poor. My god here should not be
such a thing in America so we do have lots of work to do beyond the police,
but we can get there Ed, and we must get there together. Lots of work is
still needed to be done.

SCHULTZ: Well, reading from what Mr. Loomis said with the Policemen
Association in Cleveland. Its sounds like he believes that the Department
of Justice is being pretty heavy handed and not taking all the facts about
what they`re dealing with, does he have...

TURNER: Heavy handed.

SCHULTZ: ... any merit -- does he have any merit at all in that point?

TURNER: No, not at all Ed. Heavy handed, they came in at the request of
the mayor in 2013 and found that the Cleveland police department uses
excessive force that is a fact. 137 shots against Ms. Williams and Mr.
Russell, no citizen in this country should have to endure something like
that. They were unarmed, they evaded the police, no doubt about that, but
invasion doesn`t mean that they deserve to be dead.

The shooting of young Tamir Rice on the playground that young boy, little
boy did not deserve to be dead to Tanisha Anderson did not deserve to die.
Handcuffed victims being hit -- hit by police with their weapon that cannot
and should not happened. This is about the community and the police coming
together everybody...

SCHULTZ: I understand.

TURNER: ... understands how difficult it is to be a police officer. My
son is a police officer. My husband was a police officer. We did it Ed.
But we have to do this together and Mr. Loomis statement is do not help
this and I`m hoping that the rank and file that we will begin to turn this
around and let the healing...


TURNER: ... begin in Cleveland and all across this nation Ed. We have to
do this.

SCHULTZ: All right, Nina Turner from Ohio with us tonight here on the Ed
show. I appreciate your activism and your interest thanks so much.

That`s the Ed Show.


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