Skip navigation

The Ed Show for Monday, June 8th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Monday show

  Most Popular
Most viewed

Date: June 8, 2015
Guest: Reverend William Barber, John Nichols, Bob Shrum, John Fugeslang,
Rob Boston


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, shocking video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video shows in the McKinney, Texas police office
throwing down a 14-year-old girl in a bikini and pulling as service
(inaudible) on two boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later going whole hard (ph) racing toward front attack
on his Harley and in the polls.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R) WISCONSIN: Governors are well tested leaders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And holier than doubt.

FRM. SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R) PENNSYLVANIA: The church has gotten it wrong a
few times on science. And I think that we probably are better off leaving
science to the scientist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he`s not a scientist and in fact he does have degree
in chemistry. Neither are you.


MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: We start tonight shocking news of a major
prison break in Upstate New York on Saturday. At this hour a massive
manhood is underway for convicted murderers David Sweat and Richard Matt.
Both men are considered extremely dangerous. Authorities are now searching
in the U.S., Canada and Mexico. The State of New York is offering $100,000
reward for information leading to their arrest.

This was a truly elaborate escape from the Clinton Correctional Facility.
The prison lies just 25 miles south of the Canadian boarder. It was the
first time in history anyone escaped from the maximum security section.
Their escape reads like a movie script. The inmates put makeshift dummies
in their beds. They use power tools to cut through steel walls. They walk
into these catwalk six stories up before sliding down a tunnel. The
inmates busted through a brick wall that was two feet tick. They cut holes
into and out of a 24 inch steam pipe they crawl through, before exiting a
manhole one block away from the prison. They even left taunting note that
read "Have a nice day".

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo who where (ph) the escape route this
weekend, earlier today he said the inmates probably have help from somebody
inside with their prison escape.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D) NEW YORK: I think they had help. I don`t believe
they could have acquired the equipment that they needed to do this without
help. And we have separate investigation that`s going through exactly that

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help from the inside or the outside?

CUOMO: You know three types of employees in a prison. What we`re looking
at everything but primarily from the inside. You have three types of
employees in the prison, you have the guards, you have civilian employees
and then you have private contractors who come into do work. And we`re
going to these civilian employees and the private contractors first. I`d
be shock if a correction guard was involved in this, but they definitely
had help otherwise they couldn`t have this on their own, even from the
equipment point of view.

And also it took a number of days to accomplish what they accomplish. I
mean this really could have been a movie script. And if you saw it movie
scrip it would have been unbelievable frankly. What they accomplished.


DYSON: At this hour authorities say the dangerous killers could be

For more let me bring in NBC News correspondent John Yang. John, give us
the latest.

JOHN YANG, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michael the search continues
they`ve got about 250 federal in the state investigators across New York
State. They tell us at midday they told us they had about 300 leads, 300
tips as to whereabouts of these two killers. But so far they really don`t
have any specific idea of where they`re. They don`t know if they`re still
together. Well, if their partnership ended when they came up out that
manhole and their each on their own. They`ve alerted authorities in Canada
because of the proximity of that boarder. The U.S. custom of board patrol
has step up.

Inspections are actually -- they have inspections on the U.S. side as
people go from United States into Canada. Usually if you do that trip the
first person you would see it would be on the Canadian side because they`re
now checking cars on this side of the boarder. They say that there is
heighten awareness on the boarder.

They`ve also notify the authorities in Mexico because one of the escape
prisoner spend some time in Mexico before he was caught there and extra
indicted for this trial, that ended him up here in the prison. They`re
also looking into how this all happen. They`re interviewing civilian
workers, they`re interviewing private contractors doing construction work
in the prison, trying to figure out how these two men got these power tools
and were able to do all this work, how they were able to navigate the
elaborate of tunnels and types of this 150 year old building and make their
way out.

So, they`re trying to find out where they`re. They`re trying to find out
how they got out and that investigation on both fronts still very much
underway, Michael.

DYSON: Sure, it`s like shocking (ph) redemption mets mission impossible.

YANG: Exactly.

DYSON: What are you hearing from members of the local community?

YANG: I think that there`s a fair amount of both concern but also there is
a -- you know this is the first escape from the maximum security portion of
this prison. So, people hadn`t thought about it, hadn`t worried about an
escape because one had never happened.

I think that you talk to people and they say that living in the shadow of
this prison and start to get use to it. It should have blends into the
background after awhile, that this certainly brought it out in the sharp
relief over this past weekend. They have been they were concern of by
parents, from parent the fact that school was going to be open today. And
officials search and secured all the school over the weekend and today they
had New York State police at all the school. And so far they went to
school came home without any incident.

DYSON: All right.

YANG: But I also think that there`s a fair amount of feeling around here
that these guys aren`t here anymore. They think that they got out and
probably moved on.

DYSON: Excellent report John Yang. Thanks for your time.

YANG: Thanks Michael.

DYSON: Let me bring in Jim Cavanaugh an MSNBC law enforcement analyst. So
Jim, what do we know about these inmates background? They seem pretty
gruesome indeed.

Matt, you know, he`s killed two people. I mean he killed and dismembered
his boss. He`s killed a man (ph) in bar fight in Mexico. And the younger
fellow he killed a deputy sheriff, shot him multiple times.

So these guys are ruthless killers. They`re out and, you know, we use the
term desperado. These guys are in desperate straight now. They`re not
going to want to go back, because they`re going to spend their rest of
their life in the joint (ph). They`re going to want to hurt people to get
a car. Want to carjacked somebody. They want to get away. They want to
lay low.

So they`re extremely dangerous. And, you know, we don`t know if they`re
together or they have associates, if they split up. But their be the kind
of people that would kill you and take your car and, you know, dump your
body in the woods just to get 10 hours ahead of the police. So they`re
very, very dangerous.

DYSON: Well, a couple of things. First of all are they likely to commit
those kinds of crimes in light of the fact that it might draw attention to
them. And then secondly do you think they`re still in the immediate area
or have they flown the coop so to speak.

CAVANAUGH: Right. Well, we can`t tell if they`re hiding out nearby of
left. I mean nobody really has that answer, that`s the search on. But
these are the guys that are likely to kill you for your car. And keep your
body in the trunk just so you can`t` report the car stolen for a day. And
then dump -- yeah, so they`re very likely to do that. Where some other
carjacker who want to sell your cars, steal your cars, steal the purse or
radios or content of the car, just want to drive away and needs a really
quick item. These guys need the car for transportation to be able to get
some distance.

And do that they can`t let the person leave so they`re extremely dangerous.
They`re also the kind of people Michael that would get into their house and
harm the occupants, you know, to get money, food, their car. And hope the
crime wouldn`t be discovered for awhile. So they`re extremely dangerous,
extremely dangerous convicts. So, we hope their caught soon.

DYSON: Yeah, I was going to say I know you don`t have crystal ball, but
there`s no kind of, you know, prediction about when they maybe caught. But
are the kinds of things that people should be doing in light of the fact
that this manhunt is going on in the local area there.

CAVANAUGH: Right. Well, I think in local area they`re toned to it, you
know, this the convicts can get away from there that they can get a little
relief from the pressure. So in local area everybody, you know, locking
their doors, pay attention to the state police, you know, in doing the
right things. If they`re there in the barn or an abandon building or
something, there likely be found.

But if they can get away, if they can get out of the area, that tempo of
alertness by everybody goes down. And that`s where you have to hold
someone on the news see something that they can report it. You know, don`t
approach these guys or try to apprehend them because these guys are going
to kill somebody if they have to get away. They`ve already killed the
police officer the one guy did. The other fellow Matt killed two people.
They`re not afraid to murdering you to get away. They murdered you and get
10 minutes.

DYSON: Yeah.

CAVANAUGH: And so, the planning Michael, you made the point, the planning
now whether getting out, if they used that level of planning to be
fugitives, another word a plan for the outside fugitive trail. They`re
maybe a little hard to catch for awhile.

DYSON: Yeah, no doubt. So, you know, we often say truth as stranger than
fiction. But this seems to be pretty extravagant. Have you seen a prison
break like this before?

CAVANAUGH: Well, you know, we all know The Shawshank Redemption. You
mentioned we all know the historic escape from Alcatraz. You know, all
those historic stories, you know, John Dillinger a bar saw (ph) in the
Crown Point, Indiana jail in the 30s and covered it with shoe polish and
carved into a gun and he escape. So there`s very many historical prison
escapes and with ingenuity guys just want to get out. But I spend time
around jails, you know, as young officer a lot of time in jails with
inmates. And I`ll tell you they got one thing that we don`t have Michael
and that`s time. And they leverage the time. They don`t have anything
else but time.

In this case like the governor said they probably got some help with some
tools, a chop saw, with some lithium-ion batteries maybe or a small torch,
tools that weren`t available even 10 years. And they were able to get
through but they have the thing that we don`t have. We have lives whether
correction officer`s workers go in. We have other lives. We don`t
leverage time like they do. So, these guys spend every minute leveraging
the way to get out of there and that`s why they were successful.

DYSON: All right. Well, thanks a lot Jim Cavanaugh. Thank you so much
for your time.

CAVANAUGH: Thank you Michael.

DYSON: Coming up, we`ll have the latest from McKinney, Texas and the
investigation into a police confrontation continues.

And later, Scott Walking warps up the conservative base in Iowa. We`ll
look at how the Wisconsin government plays in the key caucus state.

Stay tuned.


DYSON: We`re following the news out of South Carolina on the death of
Walter Scott. A Charleston Country grand jury has decided to indict
Officer Michael Slager on murder charges. Video emerge in April of Officer
Slager firing eight shots at Walker Scott as he runaway from him. Scott
was unarmed and had been stopped for a broken tail light.


murder conviction carries life in prison or a sentence between life and 30
years. If Mr. Slager were to be convicted and he were sentence somewhere
30 in life he would have to do every day of that sentence. There is no


DYSON: The shooting is not eligible for a death penalty under South
Carolina law. No trial data set at this hour. We`ll bring the latest as
the key unfold.

We`ll be right back.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

The investigation continues in McKinney, Texas following a troubling
confrontation involving police on Friday. The officer caught on camera
throwing a teenage girl to the ground and drawing his gun on several young
men has place on paid administrative leave. Office Eric Casebolt has been
with McKinney police department for almost 10 years. According a senior
department official Casebolt is now being interviewed by the Departments
Internal Affair Office.

MSNBC Richard Lui has more detail on the incident.


RICHARD LUI, MSCBC CORRESPONDENT: This is what happen after say they were
responding to a disturbance send report at teens private near pool party
posted on Twitter. A McKinney, Texas officer unholstered his gun as
teenagers at bating suit and then, pushes a teenager head into the ground.
This video was view at rate close to 300,000 an hour Sunday which leads to
this post on the police department Facebook. It says "One of the
responding officers have been place on administrative leave pending the
outcome of this investigation".

The video getting attention appears to be midstream in a longer time span.
We don`t what happen before the reporting begun but it starts with the
officer in question appearing to tripped while on pursuit.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you to stay. (inaudible) stay on ground.

LUI: He catches up and scolds some teenagers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t make me (inaudible) around you in (inaudible) on
the sun.

LUI: And tells a group of girls to leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here.

LUI: Notice the one in the orange bathing suit and the man in the beige
(ph) shirt. The officer pulls the girl in the orange bikini to the ground.
Pushes her head into the ground dragging her putting both his knees on her
back, after lot of scream (ph) he unholstered his gun as two young males
run. Two other officers rush over. One put his hand on what appears to be
the ranking officer shoulder.

Moment`s later young people who run is lead back, possible discoloration
around his mouth. As it comes the officer explains part of what went

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what everybody else did was illegal. You did it
and you got caught. The seven minute controversial video ends after that,
but not on social media. Post from both sides. None of this would happen
if they had simply complied with the officer`s demands. And this, the
scary part about police brutality is that you can`t even call 911 for help.


DYSON: McKinney Mayor Brian Loughmiller said he was disturbed and concern
by the incident. He said in the statement "Our city management and police
chief are investigating the situation as required, and I have faith they
will conclude the investigation expeditiously and take appropriate action".

Starting (ph) Joy Reid MSNBC National Correspondent. Joy, this is
disturbing on so many levels. And there`s been a kind of complication
contested prospective. Some say "Hey, if they just slow down and done the
right thing they would never been casual (ph)" other have said "It`s the
context that matters". Help us understand how we think about what`s going
on here because people become film critics at this point.

Well, we didn`t see the meet (ph) unseen. We didn`t see the data more. We
didn`t see the beginning or end. We see what we see. How we put that in

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what`s interesting is that
in talking with some of the people who were involve in the incident
including the father Adrian Kirk (ph) is mostly who is the young man that
you saw there. The discoloration on his lips according to the attorney and
the dad his blood.

DYSON: Right.

REID: Because he says that after he was chase he was then force down to
the pavement and lip being bleeding.

DYSON: Right.

REID: He was the only person who was charge in this incident. The young
woman was not actually charge very affected and 15 year old that you see
thrown on the ground. She actually was not charge or detain. She was
eventually release. But what people lot spoken with us said you also don`t
see in the video that have been release is what happen before which they
say involve adults, two women adults berating in racial term and using
racial slurs and curse words, children as young as 14.

According to one of the kid that was at the party on another network she
was just interviewed with her dad. She said that the party was going alone
for only 15 minutes when they move from the barbecue to the swim area. A
security guard began asking only the black kids whether they had a pool
card authorization to be at the pool.

She lives the young woman who threw the party actually lives there. She
lives in the complex, had and authorizes party at the complex, her friends
where there. Apparently someone posted the party on social media and some
boys who didn`t live in the complex try to come to the party.

DYSON: Right.

REID: This young woman said that when they say the young men outside the
gate they did not let them in because they didn`t know them.

DYSON: Right.

REID: But that those young boys began to try to get into the party anyway
and that the women assumed they were all together because they were most of
them were African-American.

DYSON: Sure.

REID: A key (inaudible) they mix race party. This was a group of friend
to a multiracial.

DYSON: Right.

REID: So with the people that I spoken with have said is that adult women
actually begun physically assaulting teenagers and that they actually

DYSON: These are white women.

REID: Two white women struck two different teenagers after one of them was
berating a 14 year when the 18 year old girl who was a throwing a party
tried to intervene. She said she was slap by one of the women.

DYSON: There`s video of that as well, right.

REID: There`s a video of one of the altercation. Not the slapping of the
girl who do the party but a second girl who got into altercation with
another white woman who was a parent apparently.

DYSON: Right.

REID: Who then allegedly struck on the girls, so what people are trying me
that what people haven`t seen is that they were being berating just for
being in the poll. And that it was the African-American kids, not their
friends who were not African-American who were being verbally assaulted and
abuse by adults.

DYSON: Now, how do we make sense of this? I mean given that excellent
reporting you just did. People say "Well, how we will get to the bottom of
this?" What legally matters? What is relevant material to make it
empirical case for or against this police person case about here?

REID: Well, I`m telling you there`s an organization on that has gotten
involve called the Next Generation Action that were they makes and very
specific demands. They want to see the officer disciplined, they want to
see him fire, they want to see charges brought. At issue in this case
number one is the constitutional rights of the young women who you see on
the ground.

DYSON: Right.

REID: Whether there would be probable cause to detain her whether there
was any probable cause for her to be treated in the manner that she was I
think is relevant. There`s also going to be the question of the charges
that her against the 18 year old young men. In order to justify according
to lawyers that I spoken with, the officer unholstering his firearm. He
has to believe that he was in some sort of fear for his life he has to have
a credible threat you can`t just unholster your firearm and pointed at
people let alone teenagers.

DYSON: Right.

REID: . for no reasons, so the officers appoint the need to justify his
actions. The organization also wants charges brought against the two adult
white women who they say physically assaulted two teenagers and I know that
there was one 14 year old girl who was herself white who has told another
media organization that they planned to file to charges against one of the
women too.

One of the challenge is that I have personally in the reporting is getting
the names of any of this people. Apparently one of the women involved in
altercation is the 911 caller. But we can`t get the 911 transcript or the
audio tape but at yet. We need more information about who all are involved
and one last question I`ll throw in Michael is, why would there other
civilians that were on the scene? You see the man him tan (ph).

DYSON: Right.

REID: And the jeans sport (ph) who was very much a part of the scene.

DYSON: Right.

REID: And I`m trying to find out his identity as well and why we was being
allow to seemingly assist officers was he.

DYSON: Right.

REID: . reserve deputy. Did he has some official reason for being apart
of the scene?

DYSON: Right exactly, excellent reporting Joy Reid as always. Thank you
so much for joining us in today.

REID: Thank you.

DYSON: A quick programming. Now, tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC,
Chris Hayes will talk to one of the teenagers who attended that pool party
and her father.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Do you believe police use excess of force in the McKinney, Texas

Go to to cast your vote. I`ll bring you the results
later on the show.

Still to come, Iowa go whole wow (ph) for Scott Walker and Joni Ernst Roast
& Ride.

And next, Republicans respond after Hillary Clinton calls them out for
blocking the vote.

Stay tune you`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Republicans are hitting back against
Hillary Clinton, she named names on Thursday when denouncing the attack on
voting rights.


CLINTON: Here in Texas former Governor Rick Perry signed the law that a
federal court said was actually written with a purpose of discriminating
against minority voters. In Wisconsin, Governor Scott Walker cut back
early voting and signed legislation that would make it harder for college
students to vote. In New Jersey, Governor Chris Christie vetoed
legislation to extend early voting.


DYSON: The governors tried their best to flip her argument.


RICK PERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That was a law that was passed by the
people of state in Texas. She just went into my home state and dissed
every person who supports having identification to either get into airplane
or to vote.

WALKER: I think that`s a good example where her statements of late show
that she`s firmly out of touch with I think we`re where I think where
mainstream America.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), NEW JERSEY: She doesn`t know what she`s talking
about, you know, in New Jersey we have early voting that are available to
people. I don`t want to expand it and increase the opportunities for
fraud. Maybe that was Mrs. Clinton wants to do. I don`t know.


DYSON: Governor John Kasich of Ohio says her call to expand voting rights
divides the country.


GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) OHIO: Don`t be running around the country dividing
Americans. Don`t be coming in and say we are deliberately trying to keep
people from voting when her own state has less opportunity for voting than
my state. And she`s going to sue my state?


DYSON: Hillary Clinton called for every state to extend opportunity for
voters that includes New York and Ohio. Clinton`s campaign lawyer has
started targeting states with suppressive voting efforts. In North
Carolina the battle is raging. Their voter I.D law faces trial next month.

Joining me now is Reverend William Barber, president of the North Carolina
NAACP. Reverend Barber, Hillary Clinton`s specifically called out North
Carolina as voting laws. What`s the latest in your state we know that you
developed the tremendous Moral Mondays, tell us what`s going on in terms of
opposition there.

actually go to trial on July the 13th we`re dealing with the worst and the
first case after Shelby, and I thought in a list of governors she should`ve
called out Pat McCrory one of the extremist who has overtaken the
Republican Party and our legislation, because is North Carolina, what
they`ve done is actually taken away the opportunity is to vote Dr. Dyson.
What I mean by that is, we pass same day registration and even though
African-American are 22 percent of the part voting population. 41 percent
have use same day registration, they remove that.

We have early voting they cut early voting even though 70 percent of
African-Americans use early voting. Even though African-Americans are vote
out of precinct at twice the rate of whites. They remove out of precinct
voting they pass a voter I.D law that is worst than Alabama, worst than
South Carolina 397,000 currently registered voters do not have the kind of
voter I.D that they are now talking about we need and African-Americas
don`t possess it at 50 percent of the rate of whites. So what we have in
North Carolina is taking from voters the very expensive voter laws that we
want that have been use for the last three election cycles that move our
participation of among African-Americans from 41 percent in 2000 to over 68
percent in 2012.

DYSON: Well, what do you make of the arguments on the Republican side that
try to suggest that Hillary Clinton is being divisive by making arguments
about the expansion of the Voting Rights Act or the attempt to suppress
voting? Is this something that will play well among Republicans suggesting
that the people who are causing the conflagration are on the left not the

BARBER: No, the reality is, the Shelby decision is divisive. The five
Supreme Court justices that ruled in the Shelby case are divisive. The
fact that we now have a gutted Voting Right Acts Section 4, is bring gutted
to formula, which means that we no longer have Section 5 and in the south
most of the things they done in North Carolina, I would say all of them
would not have pass the pre-clearance test.

Our governor our legislators are Thom Tillis was now a senator and Philip
Berger who was still the Senate Majority Leader in our state. Have all
been divisive they`ve gone against the voters.

As I said, here in North Carolina, these -- we had laws that Republicans
and Democrats had been using for the last three election cycle. They had
increased the voting participation that it moved North Carolina to be in
the fourth highest per capital increase in voting in the country.

And African-America voters had been exponentially had increased. What they
are really afraid of Dr. Dyson is the possibility of a third reconstruction
in the South. Breaking through the solid south, breaking through the old
ways and opening up a whole new demographic and a whole new politic and
that is what they are afraid of, They want a solid south. We`re breaking
up that solid south. And the only way they can hold on to it is to
suppress the right to vote which is the most divisive thing you can do in a
democracy is to attack the right to vote.

DYSON: Indeed. The instance is Reverend Barber, a voter fraud apparently
between, so how could Republican use the fraud argument and how is it even

BARBER: Well, you know that Tea Party tick and do some strange things to
your mind. And if you mix a little Koch Brother money in that, you would
say just about anything.

The reality is, our speaker who have leads Speaker Thom Tillis when he was
a Speaker who help leading in repelling this laws for both to expansion,
actually came on MSNBC and said "Had to admit it, it was not because of
fraud". It was not because fraud. So in reality, the fraud argument is
fraudulent in itself. The reality is we should be expanding the right to
vote. We should not be taking away the right to vote. We should be
opening up the vote and rather than suppressing to vote.

DYSON: My dear friend Reverend Doctor William Barber, thank you so much
for joining us here tonight.

BARBER: God bless my friend.

DYSON: Stick around. The Rapid Response Panel is next. Stay tuned.

Market Wrap.

Stocks begin the week and to read, the DOW falls to 83 points into negative
territory for the year, the S&P 500 is off 13.5. The NASDAQ ends down
about 47 points.

Apple unveils a new music service called Apple Music. The streaming
services become available June 30th for $9.99 a month.

And it was a top session for Sears, the company posted a narrower than
expected loss but revenue fell short of forecast. Sears finish down more
than 4 percent.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. My favorite show was my favorite
Martians. So we have some Breaking News to report.

There is a flying saucer flying over Hawaii right now. NASA is launching
the low density supersonic decelerator test vehicle to help prepare a
mission for Mars one day.

Pretty extraordinary there, the only flying saucer is we`re use to seeing
is some of the rhetoric that`s being put forth and projected by Looney
Tunes on the Fringes.

For Republicans in Iowa, it`s all about Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.
Saturday was Senator Joni Ernst first "Roast and Ride". Republicans
presidential candidates mingle with Iowa voters. Gave stamp speeches and
ate some pork sandwiches.

Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson, Rick
Perry and Mike Huckabee, all attended.

Joni Ernst said some tough words for Hillary Clinton at her event.


DANA BASH, CNN: I was here with Hillary Clinton when she was campaigning
for your opponent Bruce Braley in senate race. She was very clear and she
said, "It`s not enough to be a woman."

JONI ERNST: I would say Hillary, it`s not enough to be a woman. You have
to care about women`s issues. And women`s issues here in Iowa are that we
have a strong economy. We have jobs that our sons and daughters can go off
to someday. We have a great educational system. And women want strong
national defense. We want to know that our families are going to be safe.


DYSON: The leader of the pack was no doubt Scott Walker. Walker rode his
2003 Harley-Davidson rode master to the event. He was the only
Presidential hopeful who rode along side Joni Ernst and 300 of the people
are on a 40 mile route from Des Moines.

Walker hit it off with the voters. Political reports that his packs booth
was busier than any other candidates. Walker is riding a strong lead in
Iowa. The latest Des Moines in register polls shows Walker in first place
with a 7 point lead over Rand Paul and Ben Carson.

On Saturday, Walker went after President Obama on foreign policy.


said, you were needed a bone up on foreign policy and I guess you`ve been
doing that. I mean, you`ve been traveling. You`ve been talking about
foreign policy experts.

WALKER: Yeah. Thought it was interesting for the president to say that
the guy who called ISIS the JV squad and Yemen a success story somehow
suggesting someone else should bone up in foreign policy but we have. You
know, we`ve been to Israel. We`ve been -- I talk to David Cameron in U.K.
We`ve been elsewhere. My belief is if I`m going to -- If I`m even thinking
about running for president of the United States, it`s not about preparing
for debates. It`s about being prepared to be the president of the United


DYSON: Joining me now is our Rapid Response Panel, John Nichols,
Washington Correspondent for the Nation magazine and Bob Shrum, Democratic
Strategist and Warschaw Professor of Politics at USC.

So John, is Scott Walker really the front runner here?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": At this moment, but let`s understand that
there is probably nothing worst to be than the front runner in Iowa in the
summer before an Iowa caucus.

He has 17 points in the polls right now. He was higher about a month or so
ago. The truth and matter is he hasn`t had the greatest month. But what
you should look at in that is a lot of candidates bunched, you know, 17 and
he go down to a couple of 10, a couple of nine.

DYSON: Right.

NICHOLS: What`s we`re really talking about here is nobody has clearly
broken out. But Walker does have an intrigued factor and he is playing the
theater of it. I mean look at him coming in on that cycle with that

DYSON: Right.

NICHOLS: I`m not sure that he could (inaudible) the Michael Dukakis curse
there but he made his best shot.

DYSON: All right, so Bob, what do you think, is he overcoming the Michael
Dukakis vector? Will he win Iowa?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Will he win Iowa? You know, what, I
agree with John and I would have to say by the way that a great motorcycle
weekend in Iowa the summer before doesn`t guarantee you and doesn`t
translate into a great night of the caucuses come next winter.

Look, history would suggest that John actually right. You don`t
necessarily want to be the front runner at this point. As Howard Dean
about 2004 asked Hillary Clinton about 2008. Rick Santorum was nowhere in

But what`s happening here is that Walker who`s from a neighboring state is
betting everything on Iowa and he is in a full scale pondered to the hard
right. He has flipped on immigration and opposes immigration reform.

He now supports. He announced yesterday constitutional amendment to Iowa
marriage equality. At one point, he wouldn`t even say whether he believed
in evolution. This may help him in Iowa.

But let me tell you, it would put him in a very tough position in a general
election. He`d be the unwitting mobilizer of the Obama coalition on behalf
of the Democratic nominee. I think it`s possible that Republicans in Iowa,
in fact, how they get certain. They`re going to take a second, third,
fourth look and when they looked those many times, they may walk away from
him because they have other candidates who I think, they`re going to decide
probably have greater strength. Beyond that, he`s nowhere in New Hampshire
in my view.

DYSON: Right. So John, in light of the fact that the President have push
Walker by getting supporting in his fans. What do you make of his comments
about Obama`s, you know, ISIS`s JV.

NICHOLS: Well, I think, Obama probably shouldn`t say that. I think Obama
would tell you as much whether in early stage, people were looking at ISIS,
they were seeing it evolved and it has evolved in ways that people evolved
their own image. But it`s important to remember that Scott Walker is the
guy who said at the, I think, it would see America or at one of the great
conservative events that he got experience fighting with teachers and
librarians and nurses in Wisconsin over labor rights and somehow that was
going to prepare him to deal with the great global challenges.

DYSON: Yeah.

NICHOLS: So, I`m not sure, Iowa would be too rough on Barack Obama.

DYSON: Yeah, you`re right.

NICHOLS: When you`re coming from that place.

DYSON: All right. Yeah. In light of that kind of compare to the analysis
that was suspect that he put for. Bob, do you think Walker is pretty weak
on foreign policy?

SHRUM: Right. Listen, he wants to talk about JV. He`s in the little
leagues. The idea that you would say "I`m ready to do this job because I
had a visit with Benjamin Netanyahu and I had a conversation or rather
brief one with the prime minister of Great Britain." Is ridiculous.

Look, this is somebody who, I think, has probably very little depth in
foreign policy but we`ll talk to a lot of neo-conservative advisers and
we`ll be in favor of intervening here, there and everywhere. I don`t think
at the end of the day and I know some people think the Republicans want to
nominate a governor. They want to nominate a Midwestern Governor. I don`t
think you`re going to nominate somebody with that in a resume a national

DYSON: Right. Well, given -- talk about resumes, what about Senator
Sanders kind of perking up here? I mean give us a handicap of what`s going
on with him. Is he pushing Hillary further to the left? Is his present
and anticipated boon (ph) for the Democratic Party?

NICHOLS: Well, I think that in here, we started out talking about the
Republican race and that`s legitimate. This is a big, intense race I have,
you know, 300 candidates or whatever running at this point.

DYSON: Perfect.

NICHOLS: But the Democratic race is started to get interesting. Hillary
Clinton still is the clear frontrunner. But they just had a straw poll at
the state Democratic convention in Wisconsin, not scientific and I think we
all know what to think about straw polls. But this was a pretty clean one,
pretty well-conducted by 500 delegates participated. Hillary Clinton got
49 percent, Bernie Sanders got 41 percent. I don`t think anybody saw that

DYSON: Yeah. That`s pretty remarkable. So Bob, is Sanders gaining more
attraction than you thought? And what is that poll that John just cited?
Suggested by his ability to really cover some ground that Hillary Clinton
is going to really have to contend with.

SHRUM: I think she will have to contend with that. I think he is picking
up a lot of the Elizabeth Warren vote. I should disclose that when I was
in the business, my firm used to do his campaign. And my ex-partner is now
the -- he`s chief strategist. I think if he runs a professional campaign,
he`s a very good debater. He`s going to surprise people in Iowa.

Look, you have to say that by far, the odds on favor, 95 percent whatever.
It was going to be the Democratic nominee`s Hillary Clinton. But I think
Bernie Sanders is going to become a formidable force in this race. I think
he`s going to help shape the dialog in the Democratic Party. And I
wouldn`t be surprise today after Iowa to read a front page story in the New
York Times saying Sanders is a real candidate which, of course, nobody can
see that when he started to run.

DYSON: Yeah. Maybe Jesse Jackson for 84 maybe 88 reborn and Sanders,
well, we`ll see.

NICHOLS: He was a Jackson back in `88.

DYSON: Yeah. No doubt. All right, John Nicholson and Bob Shrum, thank
you so very much.

NICHOLS: Thank you.

SHRUM: Thank you.

DYSON: Still to come, Rick Santorum gets grilled for his papal put down.
We`ll look at with Pope Francis brings to the climate change debate.

Stay tune.


DYSON: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight`s
question, do you believe police use excessive force in the McKinney, Texas
incident. Looking over here, 67, 68 -- 66 percent "Yes", 34 percent, "No".
Keep voting onto the end of the hour at

We`ll be right back.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Former Olympian Oscar Pistorius will
be released from prison this August. South Africa`s Department of
Corrections has approved his release based on good behavior. He`ll be
placed under correctional supervision or house arrest once he is release.

Pistorius was sentenced to serve five years for culpable homicide in the
death of his girlfriend -- Reeva Steenkamp in 2013. Pistorius said he
thought Steenkamp was an intruder when he shot her through the bathroom
door in his Pretoria home. By the time he is released on August 21st, he
will observe 10 months, the minimum prison`s time for the sentence.

Pistorius may be getting out of prison but his legal issues are far from
over. Prosecutors have won their bid to appeal his conviction of culpable
homicide with the new trial set for November. They plan to seek of murder
conviction. If convicted, Pistorius could face at least 15 years in

Stay tune. There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show after this.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Later this month Pope Francis is expected to release encyclical letter on
the environment. Telling Catholics why acting on climate change is
essential to the faith. Environmentalist were trilled at the news, former
Pennsylvania senator and current GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum
wasn`t. Last week Santorum told the Philadelphia radio station, "The
church has got to it wrong a few times on science", and said, "Pope Francis
should leave science to the scientists". On Friday Santorum tried his best
to explain why he`s more qualified to talk climate change than the Pope.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he`s not a scientist then in fact he does have a
degree in chemistry, neither are you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he said won`t talk about it should you?

SANTORUM: Well, we have to make public policy with regard to the
environmental policy I.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you`re not a scientist you said you said leave the
science with a scientist.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . now the pope has the right to talk about this?

SANTORUM: The pope can talk about whatever he wants to talk about. I`m
just saying, what should the pope use his moral authority for. And I would
make the.

SANTORUM: Well, he would say his protecting the earth.

SANTORUM: I would say that that`s an important thing to do but I think
there are more pressing problems confronting, confronting the earth than
climate change.


DYSON: Joining me now is SiriusXM radio host John Fugeslang and Rob
Boston, director of communications at Americans United. Do you want to
protect the earth, what do make of Santorum`s comments here John?

JOHN FUGESLANG, SIRIUSXM, RADIO HOST: Well, of course we are called the
upon in the bible to be good stewards of the earth but, you know, religion
is so often a Trojan horse, Dr. Dyson for politicians and very often you`ll
see politicians willing to turn on their faith instantly if it means
prophets can be threaten. And climate change as you know is a sinister
conspiracy to convince people that pollution is bad by 90 percent of the
world scientific consensus.

What`s interesting about Santorum is he`s the guy who likes to come out in
boast of his Catholic piety. However, he was against the Pope and the
Vatican on the Iraq War. He disagrees with them on universal health care,
on the death penalty, on evolution. The Pope is more liberal and pro-
science than Santorum on that. But gay marriage, you`re fine right there
Pope. Go ahead. I agree with you on proposing that.

So, again, he`ll go against his faith when it`s suites him and as of pope
shouldn`t be pretending to know science. Rick Santorum`s job is pretending
to know science to hustle low information voters for cash.

DYSON: Yeah. Alex, that`s 10 for the guy with a degree in chemistry. So,
do you think Santorum sees the irony in saying that church that leave
science to the scientists there (inaudible).

ROB BOSTON, AMERICAN UNITED: Well, It`s interesting. You know, Rick
Santorum is the guy who once said that John F. Kennedy`s view on separation
of church and state made him want to vomit and he is the guy who -- when he
was in the Senate repeatedly attempted to get creationism, taught in our
schools. This is not exactly Bill Nye "The science guy" we`re talking
about here.

And I find that amusing that whenever the Pope comes out for, you know,
attacking same sex marriage or attacking legal abortion. Rick Santorum is,
you know, rah-rah go get them. But when the pope takes a slightly liberal
position on climate change or economic justice suddenly, the pope doesn`t
always talking about and it`s time to, you know, put duct tape over his

DYSON: Yeah. You know, given with Rob is saying there. What do you make
of the fact that people of faith have a problem of seeing, you know, the
environment is a moral issue?

FUGELSANG: I think, it`s kind pathetic and I think, he know -- it`s why we
talk about sheep (ph) quite a bit. You know, they say that they supported
Jesus but in reality, a lot of folks have a Bible is just the Book of
Leviticus and the golden calf and the Book of Revelation duct tape to a
left behind book. And that`s as deepest it gets.

Again, we`re called on in a Bible to be good stewards of this environment,
of this earth. This planet, getting to live here is a blessing. And so,
the notion that pollution is OK if profits are threatened. It goes against
everything Jesus and God talked about in the book.

DYSON: Yeah. That`s profits, P-R-O-F-I-T-S. So, turning now, the Lindsey
Graham`s comments on Caitlyn Jenner, here`s what he had to say on Sunday.
You all take a listen.


SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, UNITED STATES: If Caitlyn Jenner wants to be safe
and have a prosperous economy, vote for me. I haven`t walked in her shoes.
I don`t have all the answers to the mysteries of life. I can only imagine
the torment that Bruce Jenner went through. I hope he`s -- I hope she has
found peace. I`m a pro-life, traditional-marriage kind of guy. But I`m
running to be president of the United States. If Caitlyn Jenner wants to be
a Republican, she is welcome in my party.


DYSON: So Rob, is this the new direction of the Republican Party?

BOSTON: Well, you can barely see these guys dancing all over the place
trying to get an answer for this question because it`s one that is just,
you know, the younger generation will tell you when it comes to LGBT rights
but they`re suddenly (ph) behind that. They`re in favor of marriage

This old gay bashing, that so many of these candidates have relied on for
so many years. It`s just not going to deliver for them in the future and I
think they`re really running scared. And that`s why you`re getting people
like Lindsey Graham just, you know, getting that deer in the headlights not
knowing what to say and grasping at the free market as the answer to this

DYSON: Well, John, they`re willing to make an exception for Caitlyn Jenner
but they`re voting unmask against whether it`s gay marriage or even the
acknowledgment of transgender human beings to their assist gender kind of
narrow heterosexual of lines (ph). So, how much does this reflect trend or
we`ll make an exception over here because we want to undermine you over

FUGELSANG: It`s not really a trend. I mean 70 percent of millennial
Republican support marriage equality. This is the dying gaps of a bigoted
generation and Lindsey Graham should know better.

And it`s interesting, Caitlyn Jenner is the most inspiring LGBT person ever
to support a party that does not support LGBT persons. In many ways,
Caitlyn Jenner is the ideal Republican female voter and hey, I`m glad they
got woman that join the party this year. But when you think about it,
she`s old, she`s white, she`s rich, doesn`t have a uterus, that`s exactly
who they`re looking for.

I have applauded Lindsey Graham for letting us heart grow a bit. And this
is considerably less bigoted than the stuff we`ve heard on previous years.
And it`s interesting hearing the guy who prosecuted the Clinton impeachment
being so openhearted when it comes to matters of sexuality. However, you
know, I think, it`s going to be positive. I think, they`re going to see to
their own focus group testing that homophobia is not testing as well as he
did back in 2004 when Karl Rove is warning you that heterosexual
dysfunction would happen if you let two guys marry.

DYSON: Well, nothing like a focus group more than morality to push you at
the right direction so to speak. John Fugelsang and Rob Boston, thank you
so much for your time tonight.

FUGELSANG: Thank you.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Mike Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>

The Ed Show Section Front
Add The Ed Show headlines to your news reader:

Sponsored links

Resource guide