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The Ed Show for Tuesday, June 9th, 2015

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Date: June 9, 2015
Guest: Jamal Simmons, Jess Mcintosh, Joseph Giacalone, Collette Flanagan,
Jamelle Bouie, Ron Christie, Lori Wallach, Genevieve Wood

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Tonight as Ed would say, let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, Obamacare under attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the ruling goes against the administration, it will
be significantly damaging.

to take coverage away from millions of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, sounding off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some community activists in McKinney, Texas are calling
on the police department to fire the officer

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McKinney fraternal order police spoke out on behalf of
Corporal Eric Casebolt the group emphasized what this video does not show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later, still out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not just about finding these men, but finding out
how they did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did a woman who works at the Clinton Correctional
Facility help David Sweat and Richard Matt pull off their elaborate escape?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And these little piggies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The search for the missing pigs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Robert Lowry is these live with the Breaking search
for missing pigs.

ROBERT LOWREY, REPORTER: Its 1,500 pigs have been found after this semi
turned over here on the highway.


MELBER: We will get to those pigs, but we begin with big political news.

President Obama going on offense for the Affordable Care Act today while
the Supreme Court could rule as early as next week on whether to overturn
the law and now the court is considering a conservative attack on the law
which argues Congress basically wrote this policy to deny health care
subsidies to the states which didn`t set up those health care exchanges.
The law`s challengers are arguing basically a strict reading here of the
statute makes those subsidies only available in states that established
their open marketplaces.

Now, speaking about the law`s success today, the president told the
catholic health association that the ACA is working well despite any
ongoing challenges to the law.


OBAMA: There is something -- I have to say just deeply cynical about the
ceaseless endless partisan attempts to roll back progress. I mean I
understand stood folks being skeptical or worried before the law passed,
and there wasn`t there to examine. But once you see millions of people
having health care, once you see that all the bad things that were
predicted didn`t happen, you`d think there be time to move on. Let`s
figure out how to make it better. It seems so cynical to want to take
coverage away from millions of people. To take care away from the people
who need it the most. To punish millions with higher cost of care and
unravel what has you no been woven into the fabric of America.


MELBER: You hear him talk about unraveling that fabric. And that fabric
includes a health care marketplace that according to the numbers has simply
and drastically improved access for millions. And here are those numbers.
We`ll show them to you. If challengers win at the court, it would cut
health care funding for up to 6.4 million people. Where? In 37 states.
So even if you accept the arguments of the challengers to the law, the
bottom line is those 6 million people could lose health care because
Republicans in their states refuse to cooperate with this policy. So
regardless of what people think about the branding or the politics of
Obamacare, we`re also learning today that most Americans don`t think
cutting off health care funding is a good idea.

According to a "Washington Post" ABC News pole, 55 percent of Americans
saying the court should not take action to block the federal subsidies in
the states that happened not to set up their own exchanges. So that means
even if Republicans win at the Supreme Court, they may be dealt a losing
hand forced to defend a political program that denied their own citizens
federal funding for the health care they need. And some are already trying
out new messages given that pickle that there in.

Take South Dakota Senator John Thune has the issue backwards trying to
shift the blame. Look at this. He recently Tweeted 6 million people risk
losing their health care subsidies, yet POTUS continues to deny that
Obamacare is bad for the American people.

A quick fact check here. It is Obamacare that provides those subsidies and
Republican attacks that are trying to eliminate them. Now other Republican
leaders have tried a different tact, they`re doing a wait and see approach.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was asked about this and press for
some detail and what they would do in the event on the decision. And he
just told reporters, look, "We`ll let`s you know depending on the outcome
of the decision."

But a decision gutting Obamacare would give Republicans a lot of headaches.
It is a lot easier to complain about this law when it`s working than deal
with the consequences when real people, millions of them, start losing
their health care.

All right, get your cellphones out. We want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, "Do you believe the Supreme Court will overturn

What is your prediction go to and cast your vote. As
always we will bring you the results later on the show.

Now let`s get right to it. Joining me now, Democratic Strategist Jamal
Simmons and Jess Mcintosh of Emily`s List. Good evening to you both.


MELBER: I`m tempted to go to the policy because as we`ve argued before a
lot of people matter in this policy debate. But Jamal, let me start with
the politics. What do you make of Senator McConnell saying what we`ve had
all this time, we`ve been doing appeals, but I`ll get back to you on an
answer here.

SIMMONS: Well, the reality is the Republicans are in a box here because
they are the ones the American public knows been trying to stand in the way
of getting health care passed and now they`re pushing this case. And so,
what happens is if we have subsidies taken away from 6 million people, many
of them are in states that are Republican leaning states, they are going to
have a problem on their hands and they have to figure out a way to fix it.
If they fix it by funding it, they`re going to have a problem with their
base. So that one way or the other, they`re in trouble.

MELBER: And Jess, I want to go back to a little bit of what the president
said in this remarks today, which were significant. Of course we`ve heard
him defend the ACA before, but he`s cutting up against a Supreme Court that
could rule basically in any of the next coming Monday`s next two or three
weeks on this. And he basically said this is like one of those ginga board
games. You can`t just pull out part of the ACA and not expect to mess with
the fabric of the entire economy in the marketplace.

I want to read you from Greg Sargent the "Washington Post," talking about
those remarks, basically saying "Translation of Obama`s speech, our health
care system is now Obamacare." He said a variation of this twice. The
reference to the cynicism of those who want to take coverage away from
millions has added meaning here, it`s misleading of Obamacare opponents to
pretend it can be simply replace and repeal. Not just because repeal would
hurt a lot of people, and just because opponents would have an actual
consensus replacement plan. But because Obamacare is now our health care
system, Jess.

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: Yeah, I mean, I think when you look at that
map and you see how many states are shaded in red, if 37 states lose their
subsidy, that`s not tinkering around the margins of a law that is
fundamentally taking it apart. I don`t believe that the Supreme Court will
block those subsidies. I think that it is a fairly transparent partisan
argument being made. And hopefully the justices see that for what it is.
But I do think it is interesting how many Republican states are in that red
block. No one going to what Jamal was saying, no one is at more risk other
than the folks who`re losing their health care than Republican governor
Scott Walker in Wisconsin. If his state loses those subsidies, it`s going
to be up to him to come up with a solution. And he has shown absolutely
zero indication he`s interested in doing that kind of a thing. So it`s
going to be a real trouble for him as he running for president, if he can`t
figure that out in his own state.

MELBER: Yeah, Jamal doesn`t that go to the problem here? Because the way
this policy was erected created that back stop. So that if you didn`t set
up your exchange. This was the mechanism, this funding from the Feds. You
lose that and suddenly you`re not just doing rhetoric, you have a problem
at home.

SIMMONS: You do and in fact. I was talking to one of the experts who
helped pull this deal together on Capitol Hill about this recently and he
said, you know, there is a part of me that just wishes that the Supreme
Court would rule against it because the Republicans will be hoisted up on
their own guitars (ph). They`re the ones in stood in the way erecting the
changes in the states. Now they`re the ones who`re pushing this case. And
they`re the ones who`re paying the political price for getting hurt along
with the 6 million people who would have their subsidies taken away or
perhaps the 129 million people who now have access to health care who
perhaps wouldn`t if it wasn`t for Obamacare. This is a huge issue in the
American economy and Republicans are really the ones at fault, I think

MELBER: Yeah, you know, I think that`s fair. That is the weird part of it,
which is why it is striking to see them struggle to do the messaging in
advance. This isn`t supposed to be complicated. If you want the court to
do something because you think it`s good, you should be able to speak as a
politician and many of them are lawyers to why that is good. I mean, Jamal
if these were Roe V. Wade and they said we want it overturned, whether you
agree or not, they could explain why that matches what they want it to have
happen. So it seems to me Senator McConnell whose claim that he`s always
for repeal can`t even say why this would be good. That suggests some fear.

SIMMONS: Oh, Yeah. I think absolutely. McConnell knows what the fix is
and he knows he has a bad Senate match (ph) coming up next year. And I
think they also know that there`ll be people in the streets. If something
happens and they lose their subsidies, they lose their health care. It is
hard to take goodies away from people. They will be in the streets over
Obamacare subsidies going away.

MELBER: And Jess, you said something earlier I want to ask you about,
which is that you don`t think the court will overturn this. To be clear,
the court doesn`t always do what it says.


MELBER: But the court does say that it is not supposed to consider whether
an outcome is good or bad. That is to say the court isn`t supposed to say
"Oh, we are going to avoid this decision because we think it will let more
murderers on the streets, right.


MELBER: Or this evidence would be excluded so that`s a bad thing. They
actually say "No, what does the constitution require?" And you can have
debates about that.


MELBER: So, why are you confident if not for the health care concern which
is real and politician care about because voters care about it, what do you
think would move the judges here, Jess?

MCINTOSH: Well, I think that Republicans have done a fairly poor job or
arguing their side which might point to fact that they don`t really want
the court to rule in their favor. I think the President was absolutely
right to use the word cynical. I think its utmost cynicism to take health
care away from people and to take it as far as it has in that effect.

I think if Democrats were as cynical as Republicans have been, we would
really want the court to rule on the Republicans` behalf. It would be a
terrible messaging for them. It would be awful for the election. But are
more importantly, it would be terrible for the American people that need
that health care. And so, we don`t go there. Because generally Democrats
believe the government ought to do right by the people it serves and
Republicans kind of reflexively think that it`s not capable of it or not
willing to do, so they just help break it. And I think that this case is
the clearest example of that real clear ideological divide that we`ve seen
in a long time.

MELBER: You know, Jess it`s a great point because if you were a pure
political, if you were Karl Rove of the left, that`s exactly what you`d


MELBER: Nothing would mobilize the Obama coalition the base more than
feeling like, you know, Washington based unelected judges came in and took
away what had been basically built for years. And yet that`s not what
you`re hearing for the left because of a lot of folks care about the
underlying politics not just the politics

Jess Mcintosh and Jamal Simmons. Thanks for joining me tonight.

MCINTOSH: Great to be hear.

SIMMONS: Thanks Melber.

MELBER: All right. If you`re watching at home, please do remember to
answer tonight`s question at We`ll going to have the
results later in the show.

And coming up, we have the latest from Texas as the investigation is
continuing following Friday`s police confrontation that went viral. You`ve
probably seen some of it online.

We`ll have more. Later, the budget buster, Rapid Response weighing in on
how Marco Rubio`s spending spree might just contradict some of his
conservative penny pinching.

Stay tune.


MELBER: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert made his first appearance in court on
federal charges. Hastert appearing before federal judge in Chicago this
afternoon and he pled not guilty to the two charges against him bond being
set at $4,500 and the former speaker had to surrender his passport to
ensure he`s not a flight risk. Hastert was indicted in May for lying to
the FBI and evading banking regulations, a very high profile case. Federal
officials saying he attempted to hide $3.5 million in payments to an
unidentified person in connection with "Past misconduct of a sexual

Hastert has hired Thomas Green of the law firm Sidley Austin represent him.
Green has worked on many high profile case is including political figures,
that including Whitewater as well as Watergate.

So say tuned on that story. You`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC. And
we`ll be right back.


MELBER: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

We`re learning more about the events leading up to that trouble in police
confrontation in McKinney, Texas. Cameras capture the incident between a
police officer and a group of teens, but not all the events leading up to
it. McKinney police are saying they were called after reports to some kind
of disturbance. Witnesses are starting to share what they say spark that
had initial call. 14-year-old Gray Stone spoke with Chris Hayes last night
about the tense scene at that community pool Friday Evening.


GRAY STONE, ATTENDED POOL PARTY: One of the parents said a very racial
slur to a group of teenagers. And we felt that we need to step in and say
something. And that broke out into a lady getting physical and violence
and then that when cops were called.

CHRIS HAYES, HOST OF "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES": You can tell me what the
man in question said that sort of precipitated this?

STONE: Well, when we were trying to get a group of teens in the pool, he
said to go back to section eight housing where you belong and get out of my


MELBER: Meanwhile Officer Eric Casebolt`s actions still under
investigation by that McKinney police department. The investigation has
the full support of the mayor there. McKinney fraternal order police
meanwhile saying that Casebolt`s actions were not at all racially
motivated, members of the department "Do not conduct racially bias
policing". Now, Casebolt is on paid administrative leave following this
incident on Friday. But based on the video and on some local accounts,
many community activists there are saying he should be fired.

As the investigation continues, demonstrators marched in McKinney, Texas
calling for an end to what they call police brutality, a group marching
Monday night from a local school the pool where the incident began.

I`m joined now by Joseph Giacalone a retired NYPD Detective Sergeant and
Professor at John Jay College Collette Flanagan again, Founder of Mothers
Against Police Brutality, and Jamelle Bouie Staff Writer for Slate

Collette let me start with you. We don`t know everything obviously at this
point an incident like this. The videos that seem to move so quickly
around online do give people a flash insight into what they think happened.
Based on what we know, what are your concerns and what do we still need to
find out?

see that video, I`m so troubled that this officer came when he came into
the scene like a RoboCop. He`s rolling on the ground, his adrenaline is
flowing. And he`s going straight for these children. And he pulled his
gun on this child. And even his fellow officers are trying to keep them at
bay. And he`s pushing them back. So my concern is who is this officer?
What is in his background? Does he have a troubled history? This is a red
flag to me. When I see an officer behaving in that manner, that`s a red
flag. I mean, most officers don`t behave that way.

MELBER: Joseph, your thoughts here and do you think we have enough from
the video to make an assessment of the officer`s professional conduct?

thing for me to watch the initial action. I mean as the law enforcement
officer, you want to try to de-escalate things. You don`t want to escalate
them many more than they are already are. So we have to be -- we can`t look
better that. There is video showing up on line like over 7 1/2 minutes,
there`s a lot to be looked at. And there`s a lot to be examined, you know,
listen. Like everything else, each situation is, you know, with the
dynamics of the situation with the social interaction between the public
and of course the psychological aspect of the officer, too. Those two seem
to mesh here. And, you know, we might not have a very good result here.

MELBER: We`re looking at different snippets of the footage. When he first
arrives on a scene that does look like mostly minor, teenagers, and pulls
his gun, can you say from a professional view was that possible and
appropriate or inappropriate?

GIACALONE: Well, you know, I`ll go right in the middle because of the fact
that there are two kids that look like they`re trying to go behind him. ,
you know, listen, I`ve been to a radio run where you have a disorderly
group that use a warehouse and we end up almost in a gunfight. So, you
know, as police take nothing for grant. But I would also -- the main point
here is what in those 911 calls what did the people who called 911 to get
these cops to respond the way they did.

MELBER: What did they think they were responding to?

GIACALONE: Right, because that`s very important.

MELBER: Jamelle, let`s speak about this more broadly in terms of the
national attention. Because it seems that we`re having now repeat
conversations in this country and in our political discourse that are
always incident driven and so people end up disputing about the individual
people. In your view, is there a larger problem restoring here that we
should be focused on?

JAMELLE BOUIE, STAFF WRITER SLATE: I think there is. And I think this is
what the social science backs up. If you look at sort of the history of
American policing, if you look at a wide variety of studies conducted about
a number of departments across the country and very different kinds of
environments from urban policing in New York to more rural policing, to
policing on the west coast, to policing in the south. You see similar
issues and similar concerns in similar problems of a mismatch between
police departments and the people they`re policing.

And so for me, you know, on one hand these kinds of incidents do I guess
for rejuvenate the conversation. But at this point, I think we`re past the
point where we need regular reminders that there is something happening and
wrong in the interactions between police officers and police departments
and communities. And we need to start think more proactively beyond I
think body cameras about what we can do about this, by what exactly is
driving these interactions and driving these problems.

MELBER: Well, what do you think is driving it? Because a lot of people
say we have a continued inequities in racialized policing, but other folks
point out that officers feel under threat and that if you cherry pick any
set of incidents, you can find situations where they look aggressive when
in fact they also face a tremendous risk.

BOUIE: So, I`ll give one example of the kind of broader issue that I think
we ought to be discussing. I think last year or two years ago, a group of
researchers out and believe St. Louis or Kansas City Missouri my mistake.

In Kansas City conducted a whole host of research about the kinds of stops
police officers were doing in the suburbs and cities. And they found was
that among traffic stops, ordinary getting a stops for a ticket or so on
and so forth. There were no racial disparities. And if you talk to
African-American drivers who experienced regular traffic stops, they were
fine. They weren`t angry, they didn`t feel like they were being
discriminated against. They understood they had broken a law or a traffic
law and were receiving the appropriate consequence.

But there was another category of stop that officers engaged them in which
they stopped not on the basis of a traffic violation, but on the basis of
some sort of minor broken headlight and taillight.

MELBER: Contextual (ph) stop, yeah.

BOUIE: Right, contextual stop, right. And those were over him
overwhelmingly against African-Americans and those often didn`t find any
kind of problem or trouble. But they did create deep feeling of
discrimination and insecurity and fear among the people who`re stopped.

Now, that kind of thing even it doesn`t result incident built a climate of
distrust and built the climate that is not amenable to being calmed down
when an incident does happen.

MELBER: Joseph, I want to go to your response on that.

GIACALONE: Well, you know, sure listen at. The statistics of proving that
we might have a problem with the racial disparity I think St. Louis just
put out another, you know, report and basically said the same thing. And
this is something that you just can`t say "We`ll, you know, we shelf it."
You know, we have to look at what the process, what the procedure and the
policy on these things and how it`s going and why is it happening. I mean
that`s really cause of it. Why is it happening?

MELBER: And let me bring Collette back in. I know your group has
requested a meeting with I believe the mayor there and police chief. What
you can tell us about that and where you want to go from here?

FLANAGAN: Well, when we look at McKinney, once the protesting is done and
the media has gone away, those people have to live in McKinney and we know
that McKinney needs systemic changes. 70 percent African-American,
15percent Hispanic and about 10 percent African-American. I`m sorry, 70
percent Caucasian. But the city council is a complete white council and
they`re all male. And when I think of that, I think of Ferguson. McKinney
has a long history of police brutality against African-Americans. And so,
unless there are systemic changes and policies and procedures within the
police department even drilling down to local government, we`re going to
continue to have this problem. And that`s every where that`s even in
Dallas, Texas.

We have to get training, implicit bias training. We need these officers
when they encounter our children, and you see my son, you need to think of
my son as your son or your uncle or nephew and not just a dangerous black

MELBER: Collette Flanagan, and Jamelle Bouie, and Joseph Giacalone. Thank
you all for joining us on the topic. We`ll stay on the story.

Still to come, will Marco Rubio get decline by conservatives or get any
trouble for his own spending habits? The Rapid Response Panel weighs in.

And next, we have the latest from Upstate, New York on that manhunt. It is
continuing right now for two escape prisoners. We have the latest on that.

We`ll be right back.


MELBER: Welcome back. We have more on that other big story for you, the
massive manhunt still under way for two convicted murderers who escaped
from an Upstate New York prison on Saturday. David Sweat and Richard Matt
broke out of the Clinton Correctional Facility after an elaborate escape
that is getting a lot of attention. New York state police saying they
received now many leads and are searching areas in Willsboro New York today
and that is 40 miles south of Dannemora area 0where the prisoners first
escaped. Police saying their acting on a specific tip in the area.
Authorities also telling NBC News that they were questioning prison worker
Joyce Mitchell in connection with this escape attempt.

We have Chris Pollone of NBC News with the latest.


CHRIS POLLONE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The manhunt continues. Hundreds of
local, state and federal law enforcement officers continue to scour up
Upstate New York for the two escaped murders.

ERIN BOYLE, RESIDENT: Being such a small location, you know a lot of
people in the area. And this a big uproar of worry that kind of is like
what is happening.

POLLONE: Since they were reported missing from the Clinton Correctional
Facility on Saturday, there has been no sign of Richard Matt or David Sweat
reported. Police say the duo use power tools to cut through brick and
metal wall and into pipes that lead them from a manhole to freedom. NBC
News is luring the men were housed in A block, the so-called honor section
of the prison, they were close friends and may have been planning the
escape for months. A former guard at the prison says he`s not surprised
the men attempted the escape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of these guys just like the two that escape have
nothing to lose, you know.

POLLONE: And construction or work inside the prison might have helped the
men mask their work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, you have contractors and stuff like that
working. But it sounds a different things that sounds like they
synchronized their times with noise.

POLLONE: A Successful escape by two violent men now on the run.


MELBER: For more, we go to NBC News correspondent John Yang on location.
John, if you go online, there is tons of talk about this story and a lot of
rumors. What you can tell us on the latest that is confirmed right now?

JOHN YANG, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you Ari that law enforcement
officials say they are taking this sighting in Willsboro seriously. It`s a
man who said he saw two men walking down a road this morning and then duck
into the wood as. They`re searching that part of the woods. Federal and
state officials descended on that little town on the Lake Champlain this
morning, to begin that search. They continue to search. They say they`re
taking this seriously, but they won`t in sort characterize how things are
going. They have been there a long time and the search continues. That is
what we know.

On Joyce Mitchell, I can tell you that they`re describing her as a person
of interest. They`re talking to her, they address that she is not in
custody. And she is not under arrest. She worked in the tailor shop at
the prison. They make the uniforms for the Metro-North workers, the
commuter rail line in New York City.

The two escaped convicts worked in that shop. They`re talking to her to
try to figure out whether or not there was some sort of help given to the
men via from the inside and what kind of help. So that where we`re they`re
investigations going on two tracks, number one trying to figure out where
they are now, number two, trying to figure out how they got out.

MELBER: John, while you`re reporting, we have been looking at some of the
footage today of what looks to be a serious and massive manhunt, all the
officials working the roads, helicopters in the air. But what is the mood
like in the area among regular citizens and is there a sense of fear?

YANG: There is a sense that -- you know, when this first happened, there
was a sense these guys probably got out of here. But then there was a
report in our NBC affiliate in Plattsburgh, New York, they say they have
two law enforcement sources who say that the convicts, the escapes ride
didn`t materialized. The ride that they expected to met when they got out
of that manhole cover so that they have been on foot since Saturday and
really haven`t gotten very far.


YANG: Once that news came out, the concern really went up around here.
People are locking their doors, they`re being very careful. Being very
careful about things as this manhunt goes on, Ari.

MELBER: It would be like a movie if they weren`t so serious and what we
know about these convicted murderers. They are certainly a risk and threat
to anyone who runs into them. John yang, thanks for reporting for us.

Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next. You`re watching the Ed
Show on MSNBC.

Market Wrap.

Stocks in a little change. The DOW falls 2 points, The S&P up a faction
(ph), the NASDAQ is up by 7.

A report on job opening show there were 5.4 million positions waiting to be
filled in April. The most since December of 2000, that`s up from 5 million
opening in March.

And Lululemon Athletica was a big winner today. Shares surging nearly 11
percent after the maker of yoga wear some profits more than double while
sales rose by 6percent.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


MELBER: Jeb Bush has not officially launched he`s presidential campaign,
with news today he`s already changing his campaign manager. Many thought
the former Florida governor would be a top two GOP candidate in general,
but lately he`s struggled in his early appearance on everything from Iraq
to Iowa.

Meanwhile, Florida`s other would GOP nominees facing some new questions
about his financial history. New York Times reporting today is Marco Rubio
has struggled with debt, financial issues and some impulse purchases. The
Times detailing that he bought a speed boat made some costly car payments
and also had some troubled real estate ventures. Apparently his debt
management was also flagged by the Mitt Romney campaign when they betting
him as a potential running mate.

On the one hand Rubio`s struggle to cover his bills while providing for his
familiar is a familiar challenge for most Americans. It certainly not any
kind of automatic disqualification for higher office. But let look at
Rubio`s specific case here. His brief career in the federal government has
included a lot of politicking away the idea that the government spends more
than it takes in and Americans need to tighten that are belts.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: The modern world, that we all live in, tell
us that success is measured by how much money you make, or how much we own,
or how famous we become.

This country is spending more money than it takes in at alarming phase and
there`s no planning to prevent that.

We need to reform the spending.

The government has grown too big, too large and too expensive. It`s spent
money, it doesn`t have, it grows the debt.

Allow us to once again balance our budgets.

We need leaders willing to use the platform of public office to call
attention to the impact societal break down is having on our nation.


MELBER: For our Rapid Response Panel, we bring back Democratic Strategist
Jamal Simmons and Jess Mcintosh of the Emily`s List, only because they did
so well early in the show. And Ron Christie joins us Daily Beast columnist
and a former George W. Bush official.

Welcome, everybody. Ron, I`m starting with you. Is Marco Rubio given
these public facts really the right messenger for the idea that the
government is spending more than it takes in?

RON CHRISTIE, DAILY BEAST COLUMNIST: Of course. Good evening, all right.
, you know, you look at his career for having been the Speaker of the House
of Florida and of course now in the United States Senate. The government
has money not of its own valuation (ph), the government has money of which
the taxpayers provide. And the government has exploded over the last 10
years. The government brings in far more money than it ever has. And yet
we`re running record debt and record deficits. So, for Senator Rubio to
talk about fiscal responsibility in the government is entirely different
than talking about what an individual citizen may or may not be doing with
their own finances.

MELBER: Jess, is that fair?

MCINTOSH: It`s pretty hard when the Republicans base so much of their
policy on we`re going to run this government like a family around the
kitchen table and tighten your belt and all of that. They spend a lot of
time pretending that government finances and family finances are really
basically the same thing. So, if they educated people that it is in fact
the case. It`s going to be tough to them to split him apart when it`s
politically convenient to do so.

More than him not being able to make ends meet, which I think it`s
eminently relatable, is this idea that he`s putting family stuff on a party
card, and he`s taking all of this money from billionaire friends. I mean
those are not problems that the normal every day American family has.
Whoops, I charged my repaving to the GOP. I think that sort sense of
corruption is really what he`s going to have to answer for as things keep
going though it.


MCINTOSH: Not the only time he`s done it.

MELBER: Jamal, Jess is talking about sort of the relatable factor which
matters in politics and certainly having debt is relatable and struggling
over the course of a career. But is sort of buying a speed boat that you
can`t afford, is that relatable?

SIMMONS: All right, you know, I think Americans buy lots of things they
can`t afford all the time. But I think getting -- for Marco Rubio the
challenge here is that he`s got as Jess was saying this commingling of
funds. He`s relationship with Norman Braman the billionaire from Miami
who is paid for Marco Rubio`s teaching career actually literally gave the
money so that they could hire him and hired his life and pay for a variety
of things and hire him for variety of things in his life. At the same
time, using party credit cards, pack credit cards, hiring family members.

This is the kind of stuff if this happened in Chicago or I`m from in
Detroit or in New York state assembly, you know, people would -- the FBI
would be poking around here trying to figure out what exactly is going on.
I think Marco Rubio may have some bigger troubles and this is just the
beginning of what we`re hearing about.

MELBER: Ron, what do you think that, or do you think this is all blown out
of proportion?

CHRISTIE: I mean it`s all blown out of proportion. You know, Jess talks
about corruption and Jamal talks about Chicago and Detroit. Why don`t we
talk about New York, why don`t we talk bout a particular former senator
from New York, why don`t we talk about a former secretary of state from New
York whose foundation has brought in hundreds of million, they have
underrated by tens of millions of dollars of IRS, they had to pay late.
There is no sense, there is no assertion that Marco Rubio has tried to
mislead the American people on his own finances where the Clintons refuse
to disclose their own. So if we want to talk about appearance of
corruption and bringing in money, I`d go to the Clinton Foundation and the
hundreds of millions of dollars they brought in that they don`t want to
talk about.

MELBER: Now Jess, you see what Ron is doing, he`s a good debater.


MELBER: The segment is about Marco Rubio and the New York Times report,
but he wants to make the segment about Hillary Clinton. But that is fair
because it`s a possibility that Marco Rubio could be facing off against
Hillary Clinton. So Jess, your thoughts on the equivalents that Ron is
offering up.

MCINTOSH: Well, of course he does. That`s what they have. We have had
the Clintons on the public stage for about 30 years. We have exhaustive
gone through pretty much every iota of Hillary Clinton`s finances and found
absolutely nothing wrong there. So they can keep pointing to new questions
that they want to raise or new e-mails that they want to see or a new
dollar that they want to dissect, but the bottom-line is that voters are
going to care about what agenda a presidential candidate is putting
forward, so we can take away any of the financial considerations and just
talk about how Marco Rubio can`t do anything to help the economic
opportunity and security for American families and Hillary Clinton has a
really great plan to fix things. I`m fine with that.

CHRISTIE: I don`t know how you can say that with a straight face. It`s
not the Republicans, it`s not me. It`s the gold standard of actually
individuals who look at foundations and say that the Clinton Foundation
should not be a clarity because they give out more than 90 percent of the
money not to charitable purposes but for their own purposes. So, it`s not
a Republican thing. And again Marco Rubio there`s no assertion that he`s
done anything corrupt.

Where I think the Clintons finances are very fair and very up to debate.
And suggest that Senator Clinton is been fighting for ordinary families. I
think ordinary families aren`t bringing in $16 million in a lifetime of
months. Ordinary families aren`t bringing a $16 million in a life time.

MELBER: Let me just fact check one thing. Neither of these candidates are
currently facing any inquiry regarding the idea that they stepped over a
legal line.


MELBER: So we`re not there. We`re talking simply mostly I think about.

CHRISTIE: That`s right.

MELBER: The ethics and politics of it. Jamal, I do want to get to you
before we go though on the other news for folks who cover this stuff which
is, Jeb Bush who some people thought was the guy already changing gears as
I mentioned at the top of the segment here to a new campaign manager. Does
that mean anything or as we know sometimes the shakeup is the best thing
for a candidate?

SIMMONS: Yeah, I don`t know what it means today. I mean Danny Diaz is a
perfectly competent and getting great operative. So I`m sure he`s going to
do a great job and make it tougher for us. But the reality is that Jeb
Bush is not the formidable candidate that we all thought he was going to
be. In fact I would argue if Marco Rubio can make through this tough space
(ph). He`s a much tougher general election candidate for Hillary Clinton
than Jeb Bush is. But the reality here is that Jeb Bush is doing something
that if he has to make a fix, he needs to do it now, get the ship ride it
and get it on track so that he can win a primary. Right now I`m finding it
very hard to see which primary or caucus Jeb Bush wins in first

MELBER: Yeah, that makes sense to me. He`s got a lot of money but the
path seems to be narrowing and in politics, the perception of the path
matters. It really fun talking to all you guys. Ron Christie, you got
Hillary Clinton some extra air time tonight, so we`ll count that, Jamal
Simmons and Jess Mcintosh. Thanking you all. Appreciate it.

SIMMONS: Thanks Ari.

MELBER: Still to come, as Fast-Track stall in the House a new polling you
going to want to hear about. This shows that Americans actually oppose
many of the policies in the TPP.

We have the details for you straight ahead.


MELBER: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight
question, "Do you believe the Supreme Court will overturn Obamacare?"

That decision could come any week now. You can keep voting until the end
of the hour at

And we, we`ll will be right back.


MELBER: Some Breaking News for you to report now. According to local
media reports attributed to the attorney for the officer at the center of
that police confrontation McKinney, Texas which we were just discussing
earlier in the hour.

Well, according to this brand new report at this hour that officer has
resigned. Again that officer in that incident reportedly has resigned
that`s according to multiple account and sources on the ground. We will
have more for you on that story as it`s developed. There is also reports
that lawyer for the officer will speak. MSNBC will stay on that story for
you and we`ll keep you posted.

Thanks for watching the Ed Show. We`ll be right back.


MELBER: Welcome back. House Republicans still don`t enough votes to
provide President Obama with Fast-Track trade authority. House Republican
leaders have committed to vote on Fast-Track by the end of this week.
However Republicans still confident they can eventually enough support to
pass this bill.

If the President is granted the authority, the Trans-Pacific Partnership
will receive an up or down vote. Of course labors leaders and some
Democrats have been arguing that if the deal is past the American jobs
would be at risk because of the increased imports in trade. No, according
to a new online survey exclusively conducted by NBC News, it turns out many
people want to defend the U.S. from what they consider cheap foreign

When asked what`s more important? 66 percent say protecting American
industries and jobs by limiting foreign imports from other countries. 31
percent say allowing free trade products and that can be bought at lower
prices, of course. 71 percent of Republicans support the protections
compared to 28 percent who prefer those cheap goods. 66 percent of
Democrats want protections, 31 percent prefer cheap goods when it`s framed
that way. And look at this, college graduates are the most likely to
support free trade. 60 percent favor protections. 38 percent would prefer
cheap products. Overall, Americans oppose Fast-Track authority for the

Here`s a new, New York Time CBS poll and that show 55 percent simply
opposed to Fast-Track. 42% in favor.

From more we bring in Lori Wallach Director of Public Citizen Global Trade
Watch and Genevieve Wood, Senior Contributor with the Daily Signal. Good
evening to you both.



MELBER: Lori, what do you make of all these numbers combined?

WALLACH: I think it`s not very surprising that most Americans, Democrats -
- independents aren`t very supportive of either any president basically
having the ability to railroad through a big international agreement that
could affect their jobs or more of the same kind of trade agreements that
have in the past led to lots of job offshoring and downward pressure on
Americans` wages. Not really surprising us.

MELBER: Yeah, you`re talking a little bit of procedurally saying oh, will
Fast-Track it`s a done, and the President has said that is the choice. And
if you don`t have that, you can`t get these kind of complex deals done at
all. So it`s that way or no way.

WALLACH: Well, but that`s not really the case. I mean for the last 21
years Congress is only allowed Fast-Track to go into effect for five of
those years, but just during the Clinton administration where President
Clinton only had Fast-Track for two of his eight years they did 150 trade
agreements. Only two of them had Fast-Track. So you need fast track for
really unpopular agreements that are overreaching that you need to loss run
through Congress. But if you have a trade agreement that the public thinks
is good and majority in Congress is happy with, that doesn`t need Fast-

MELBER: That`s a strong argument, I think. Genevieve, do you think the
trade supporters know at this point are clearly losing the political
message war?

WOOD: Well, I`ll be honest with you Ari. I don`t think we`ve had a very
good debate on this whole trade deal. And the reason why is because people
like me who are ardent free traders who would be opposed to where Lori is
on this particular deal, haven`t really come out vocally one way or the
other. And the reason is we haven`t seen the deal. Those who have seen it
are members of Congress who have had to view it behind closed doors.

And frankly, many conservatives in Congress who I talked to, because they
don`t trust this President on a whole host of things, things like
immigration and others that he`s gone around them, they`re concerned that
there may be things in this deal that they`re not going to like that gets
through. So their not wanting to give him that kind of authority, so I
don`t think we`ve had a very good debate and I think that`s influencing the
number you see in this polls. Because the President hasn`t put some cards
on the table, we don`t know what`s in it. And frankly he just hasn`t been
very helpful in persuading people he can be trusted on these kind of

MELBER: Well, and as we saw the numbers -- we`ll put them back up
briefly, you have that Republican and Democratic skepticism.

WOOD: Yup.

MELBER: Which that isn`t just a partisan issue and may also I think
reflect the fact that you had some big progressives like Elizabeth Warren
come at the President from the left on these issues. So, it`s been of
anything an interesting and different kind of debate. We have to cut our
segment short because we want to talk about one more Breaking News update
we have. So, Lori Wallach and Genevieve Woods, I want to thank you both
for your time.

Turning to some of that Breaking News and update we`ve promised you on the
story we`ve been following. The officer at the center that confrontation
with teens at the pool party at McKinney, Texas has reportedly resigned. A
local media report, we want to give credit here from KDFW attributes that
to the attorney for the officer and in conjunction with that we`ve seen now
a new scheduled press conference by McKinney police department that is
scheduled for 6:30 p.m. Eastern, a story that`s gotten a lot of attention.

Joining me by phone MSNBC National Correspondent Joy Reid at the police
station there at McKinney, Texas. What can you tell us?

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes Ari, we are trying to confirm
those reports that we`re hearing out of local media that the Officer Eric
Casebolt has resigned. I`m here outside the police station in McKinney,
Texas, awaiting at press conference in about 32 minutes, at which we will
hear from the chief of police here, the new chief of police is only been
installed for a very short time. I can tell you that we just spoke with
the only person that`s been charged with a crime in connection with that
pool party incident. The young man who had -- Officer Casebolt who had
drawn his gun on, and I`m sure that they`re of course waiting to hear what
happens with this case as well. So we`ll update MSNBC as it comes in.

MELBER: Joy Reid reporting on location. Thank you for the update and we
will stay on the story.

That is our show for today the Ed Show. I`m Ari Melber in for Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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