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All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, June 10th, 2015

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Date: June 10, 2015
Guest: Jordan Gray, Maurice Gray, Deray McKesson, Zalmay Khalilzad, Sekou
Smith, A.J. Delgado


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

JANE BISHKIN, ATTY FOR ERIC CASEBOLT: With all that happened that
day, he allowed his emotions to get the better of him.

HAYES: A surprising message of regret from the attorney of Officer
Casebolt, as the backlash to the backlash continues in McKinney.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should just admit that. You`re a race pimp.

HAYES: We`ll go live to Texas for the latest.

Plus, as the White House announces 450 new advisers in Iraq, why
shouldn`t we just bring all our troops home?

Then, why the attacks on Marco Rubio and his $80,000 speedboat seem a
little unfair.

And statistical proof that what LeBron James is doing in the NBA
finals might make him the greatest of all time.

LEBRON JAMES, CLEVELAND CAVALIER: I`m not too much worried about the
game. I`m worried about the moment.

HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Reaction and repercussions, the police actions surrounding a teenage
pool party arrive today from the police officer who has now resigned, and
the 15-year-old girl who he shoved to the ground, both responding today
through their attorneys.

According to his lawyer, Eric Casebolt, the now former McKinney police
officer, had already made service calls in an incident involving suicide
and another involving a person threatening suicide before he ever got to
the pool party. The stress of that day contributed to his inappropriate
actions in this video.


BISHKIN: His efforts to gather information was hampered by some
teenagers who were instructing others to defy police instructions. With
all that had happened that day, he allowed his emotions to get the better
of him. Eric regrets that his conduct portrayed him and his department in
a negative light.

He never intended to mistreat anyone, but was only reacting to a
situation and the challenges that it presented. He apologizes to all who
are offended.


HAYES: The president of the McKinney Fraternal Order of Police,
Daniel Malenfant, today said he was both satisfied and distressed by the
public`s reaction to the video.


FOP and Eric are extremely grateful for the outpouring of support that he
has received from the McKinney community as well as from citizens across
the country. Unfortunately, this positive show of support has and will
always be overshadowed by hatred and those set on creating racial tensions
in America. This includes the countless death threat calls and e-mails
being received that are not being conveyed to the public.


HAYES: Finally today, the lawyer for Dajerria Becton, the 15-year-old
girl forcibly shoved to the ground by Corporal Casebolt responded to those
assertions, as well as recapping from her client`s perspective the incident
that`s now sparked national attention.


HANNAH STROUD, ATTY. FOR BECTON FAMILY: In the same way we wouldn`t
condone assault against a 15-year-old, we could not condone assault or
aggression against a police officer or his family. Miss Becton attended a
pool party to which she was invited, not trespassing in any way, shape or
form. She left the scene when asked to by the police officer, but when she
asked for her bag so she could call for her aunt, who`s the legal guardian,
she was pushed to the ground, grabbed by her head and face shoved into the

There are appropriate ways to handle stress and Officer Casebolt`s
actions were clearly in no way appropriate. And I also do not provide a
defense for what occurred.


HAYES: According to her lawyer, Dajerria Becton`s family has not made
a decision about pursuing civil action or pressing for a criminal complaint
against Corporal Casebolt and has thus far found the response from the
McKinney police department to the video appropriate.

Joining me now, MSNBC national reporter, Joy Reid, whose on both of
those news conferences earlier today.

Joy, your reaction to the Casebolt attorney which was surprising to me
insofar as there was at least some expression of regret about what
happened, which often in the wake of these cases you just get complete
denial that anything went wrong.

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL REPORTER: Yes. You also do have to wonder,
Chris, you know, any, you know, very specific statements of regret or
statements of recriminations about his own actions, you know. You have to
remember he has potential legal consequences that are still potentially
ahead of him because it is an open question whether he could in fact face
any charges in relation to what happened.

But, yes, you did have a sort of oblique and broad statement of
apology to any and all who were offended. There was a redirect from one of
the members of the press corps in which they asked does that include
Dajerria Becton, the 15-year-old girl who we saw being manhandled on the
tape and the lawyer said, yes, and said that this former officer regrets
that his actions reflected poorly on the department.

And so, I think what we had on the one hand in that press conference
was a real attempt at mitigation, of trying to explain in advance sort of
the circumstances leading up to the event. Not really a defense of the
specifics of what was done on the scene. It was really more about what
happened before and psychological state where as you just played, in the
second of those press conferences, the attorney for Dajerria Becton made it
very clear -- sure, they`re sympathetic with the issues that may mitigate
but it doesn`t excuse the fact that in her words, her client`s civil rights
were violated.

HAYES: Yes. And there is actually a lot of people talking about the
possibility of some sort of assault charge against the officer in question.
Though I did also find it interesting this that second press conference,
the lawyer for Dajerria Becton said they found so far that the McKinney
police department`s reactions appropriate.

REID: They have found -- right. So I couldn`t quite exactly hear
your question all the way, Chris, but I think what you heard from Dajerria
Becton`s attorney was they haven`t made a decision what they want to do.
But I think that they expressed, you know, they were glad to hear the
expression of regret, they were glad to hear the mitigation, she expressed
some sympathy, personal sympathy for the officer and what he was describing
as some of the psychological conditions.

But the attorney for Dajerria Becton was very firm and saying that
this really does not go to the substance of what they are saying, which is
that this is about this young woman`s civil rights. I think that that is
going to be the bottom line in their deciding what to do next.

HAYES: All right. Joy Reid, thank you very much.

Joining me now: Jordan Gray, who attended that pool party, and his
father, Maurice Gray.

Jordan, Mr. Gray, thank you for joining us.

Jordan, can you tell me when the police first arrived on the scene
there, was Officer Casebolt, he did stick out in terms of his
aggressiveness or his behavior, compared to the other officers who are on
the scene?

JORDAN GRAY, ATTENDED POOL PARTY: Yes, he stuck out very -- he stuck
out more than the other officers. The other officers were towards the
kids, asking what is going on? And asking, please do not run away from the
cops. But yet, this cop was going out of control.

HAYES: So you immediately noticed he was -- he was being the most
aggressive. Did you see him both throw Dajerria Becton to the ground and
draw his weapon there?

J. GRAY: Yes, I saw him draw his weapon. I was clearly in front of
him when I was walking toward the car, when I was trying to get away.

HAYES: What did you think when you saw -- first when you saw him
throw Becton to the ground? What was going through your mind?

J. GRAY: I felt concern for the little girl.

HAYES: And when his weapon came out, what did you think?

J. GRAY: I felt that maybe that he shouldn`t have done that, he could
have had handled it a little better than drawing his weapon, or he could
have asked one of the other officers to handle the problem, yet he proceeds
to grab towards his gun.

HAYES: Was the situation -- was the situation so chaotic that it
warranted that level of aggression from this officer?

J. GRAY: Excuse me, can you repeat the question?

HAYES: Was the situation so out of control and so chaotic or
threatening that the officer was behaving appropriately to have that much

J. GRAY: No. It was no need for that much aggression at the
situation at the situation. Everybody was sitting there calmly until the
officer started running at the two young boys.

HAYES: Mr. Gray, I`m sure you heard other folks defending the actions
of the police. Also saying that the situation that precipitated the phone
call to 911 was out of control, people were jumping the fence, they were
intimidating people. What is your response to that?

MAURICE GRAY, FATHER OF JORDAN: Well, on my wife`s behalf, she was
there with the kids. She was there from the beginning until the end. And
like she said, there was just a teenage party going on. Some kids, when
they would get in the pool, as kids, just being teenagers, some was
climbing the fence, but it was not out of control like, you know, like I
guess -- without hearing the 911 calls, we can`t say how it was actually
called in.

HAYES: It was interesting to me to hear the officer in question`s
lawyer today talk about having responded to these two calls previously,
suicide and suicide attempt and being incredibly -- emotionally fraught and
worn out at the moment he took the call. Does that change the way you
perceive what happened, Mr. Gray?

M. GRAY: Yes, I mean, they were saying that there was kids having sex
at the pool, and smoking pot at the pool, but that was -- those words or
whatever was called in, that was incorrect too. So, we don`t know what was
right or wrong what was called in, so until you get the 911 call, you kind
of -- you don`t know what was really called in.

HAYES: Jordan, you hear that this officer who you saw acting this
way, and throwing one of your friends to the ground, he had come from
having what his lawyer describes as a pretty awful brutal day, does that
change the way you perceive the way he acted?

J. GRAY: No, that shouldn`t change anything. I feel if you felt you
were emotionally intact at the moment, that you should have handled the
situation even better knowing that you felt bad already, knowing you had
had a bad day.

HAYES: All right. Jordan and Maurice Gray, thank you, both.
Appreciate it.

M. GRAY: Thank you.

J. GRAY: You`re welcome.

HAYES: It has not taken long for some to rally to the cause of
Corporal Casebolt, sometimes in the form of attacking those who protest
what happened in McKinney, Texas.

Joining me now, Deray McKesson, a police reform organizer who protests
in Baltimore and Ferguson, who joined the protest in McKinney, Texas, this
week, has been the object of some criticism in some quarters, including on
FOX News for being a, quote, "professional protester".

Deray, there are folks who -- there was a statement today by the FOP
who said, talked about people sewing racial discord, essentially, I`m
paraphrasing. That people looking to create racial discord where there is
none. What`s your reaction to that?

many young white people who were there and put his hands on many black
young people. As the person who took the video said, he said, `I felt
invisible," which allowed him to continue filming and the officer did
nothing to him, but he put his -- the officer put his knees in the back of
a young black girl in a bikini who posed no threat to her and he took his
gun out to young men of color because he knew he could and knew he had the
power to do it. It`s definitely racially coded.

McKinney is a place refusing to acknowledge the injustice that exists
around racism. In today`s press conference is just another glaring example
of the work that lies ahead.

HAYES: But there are folks in McKinney, and people that Joy had been
talking to, both black and white, who say, actually, you know, race
relations here are good, we get a long here, we moved here to this
community away from places where we had worst race relation, and you,
Deray, are an outside agitator who`s coming in here to stir things up and
find problems where there are none.

MCKESSON: Yes, you know, I`m there because injustice is there, right?
Just like King said. I was there because of that.

The officer acted in a way that was inappropriate for an officer to
act and we can`t continue to believe that racism only exists at the
extreme, the N word and lynching. That was an act there too.

He escalated the situation, because he had the power to do it and he
wanted the control -- control not only the situation, but also their bodies
that posed no threat to him.

HAYES: I want to play you this exchange you had on Sean Hannity. I
believe it was last night. Take a listen, get your reaction.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Is this what you do for a living? You want
to set up 501c3 tax-exempt organization? Is this your profession now?

MCKESSON: You know, I`m somebody who`s focused on justice. Is this a
question you`re asking me because I`m a person of color? Would you ask
white people this, too?

HANNITY: Have you been part of any of the rioting? Have you been a
part of any of the looting, right?

MCKESSON: I`ve actually not seen any rioting at all, so, no.

HANNITY: You haven`t seen it? I`ve got the video if you would like
to look in your monitor, I`ll show it to you, sir. A lot of minority store
owners lost their entire life possessions.


HAYES: I`m sort of fascinated by the idea there is something
insidious about a, quote, "professional protester". What exactly do you
understand is the critique there?

MCKESSON: You know, I think people are afraid when black people
organize. And that`s what we see. The reality is that people organize as
part of their profession all across the country, across a host of issues.

When black people organize, it becomes an insidious thing to some
people. And that`s the only thing I can offer up to make sense of that
critique that`s coming. The reality is the police are killing people. And
people are responding to the fact that the police have killed 500 people
this year alone.

HAYES: Is that the case, though? I mean, what is striking to me
about what has developed in the wake of Mike Brown`s death is the fact that
the activist infrastructure has been created, plus the addition of cell
phone video means that there are protests now around incidents that
probably wouldn`t have happened before and not necessarily because the
problem is getting worse, but because it has become visible and people have
become activated around it.

Or do you think the problem is getting worse?

MCKESSON: I think you`re exactly right. We have been telling the
truth about police violence our entire lives. The only thing that`s
difference now is the truth is becoming mainstream, because of Twitter,
because of Vine, because of cell phone videos. And people are mobilizing.

People are realizing that this is actually much closer to them, that
there is a Ferguson in their town too, right? That there`s a Mike Brown in
their town, too. So, people are just realizing it is closer to them now.

HAYES: Let me ask you this. You and I have talked off air a few
times, met you a few times. You sort of strike me as a very compassionate
and charitable individual. And I wonder when you heard the attorney today
talking about this officer`s previous two calls, that there`s a suicide, a
suicide that he had talked a woman out of, that he was essentially like
emotionally wrung out at that moment, does that -- does that change the
view this at? Does that do something to you in terms of how you perceive
what happened there?

MCKESSON: If anything, it confirms this idea that he actually should
not have been an officer at all. That if the had emotional trauma that he
needed to work through, that he should never have been in a position where
he could have taken someone`s life, which is a position he was in when he
drew his gun.

So, if anything, it, like, I`m recommitted to this notion that we need
to figure out the standards for what policing is and how to deal with their
emotional trauma.

HAYES: All right. Deray McKesson, thank you very much.

They say the two best days in a boat owner`s life are the day you buy
the boat and the day you sell the boat. You heard that here first. And
then there`s the day "The New York Times" beats you up for buying the boat.
We`ll find out where that day ranked for Marco Rubio, ahead.

Plus, new grist for the chemtrail conspiracy theorists courtesy of the

And a new feature on the show, the GOAT, as in the greatest of all
time. Tonight, I`ll tell you about the man making history this week.


HAYES: There have been two troubling and possibly linked mysteries
unfolding in Baltimore since the death of Freddie Gray and a protests and
unrests that followed. On the one hand, a major spike in homicides, 42 in
May, making it the deadliest month there since 1972.

On the other hand, a steep drop in arrests over the same period -- so
steep, it led many to question if police are intentionally staging a work
slowdown in retaliation against the protests.

When I asked former Baltimore police officer Peter Moskos about it
last week, he offered a different explanation.


are stretched too thin, they simply can`t respond to calls for service
except en masse, because they`re gets crowded by people who come out --
before one cop could handle a routine call and now there are four or five.
So, you just don`t have proactive policing anymore in Baltimore. You don`t
have drug corner -- you have cops who aren`t willing to go hands on and
frisk suspects and you have fewer arrests. But that is -- it`s a lack of


HAYES: Now, we may finally have an answer to the mystery. Two
anonymous Baltimore cops say they`re on the force admitted in an interview
they stopped proactive policing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the public really, really sees that they
actually are softer, less aggressive police department. And we have given
them that. And now they`re realizing their way of thinking does not work.
Proactive self-initiated policing has stopped.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re now in a reactive mode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re in a total reactive mode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is the result that you get.


HAYES: Now, there is lots of ways you can interpret that, of course.
But one way that imagine many people in Baltimore hear it is something like
this, you indicted our officers for the death of Freddie Gray and now this,
this is what you get.


HAYES: Today, President Obama authorized the deployment of up to 450
American troops to Iraq to train and assist Iraqi forces fighting ISIS.
Those new troops are in addition to the more than 3,000 U.S. troops already
in Iraq. The announcement has unleashed a by now predictable chorus of
criticism from the president`s congressional opponents who say he lacks a
strategy for Iraq.

In statement today, Senator John McCain said, "I remain deeply
concerned this new deployment is disconnected from any coherent strategy to
defeat ISIL."

Senator John Cornyn tweeted, what is the strategy?

Congressman Darrell Issa wrote an entire op-ed on the administration`s
mix messages regarding its strategic approach against ISIS.

Yet, remarkably at the same time, both the House and the Senate have
refused to vote on the White House`s draft for an authorization to use
military force to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria four months after it was
sent to them, almost nine months after the U.S. started launching air
strikes against a group in Syria.

They have also, and this is important, declined to offer their own
alternative AUMF. And Boehner himself hasn`t allowed for the committee
process to even move forward on crafting one. Today, when asked why
congressional Republicans don`t offer their own strategy, Boehner


the use of military force should be designed around the strategy that the
administration believes is necessary in order to win. We don`t have a
strategy and you can`t have an authorization of these military force and
you don`t know what the strategy is.


HAYES: Joining me now, Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad who served as both
the U.S. ambassador to Iraq and Afghanistan under President George W. Bush.

Ambassador, I want to -- I want to have -- talk this out with you.


HAYES: I want you to try to convince me away from a certain position,
not one that I necessarily adhere to, but persuades in certain ways, which
is, why don`t we just completely withdraw, get everybody out, get Americans
entirely out of Iraq?

Our record there is absolutely terrible. Over 30 years, we have done
nothing to actually help Iraqis. We have made their lives demonstrably
worse. Many have died because of what we have done and we need to get out.
And as horrible as what might be -- might happen after we leave, there is
no reason to suspect that our continued or escalating involvement will make
things better for them.

KHALILZAD: Well, if we could build a wall around Iraq, and let the
Iraqis work it out among themselves, I could be sympathetic to your
argument, to the point of view.

And fortunately, we can`t do that. There are -- with regard to ISIS,
you`ve got Europeans and Americans joining, and the ISIS talks about
attacking the United States, attacking Europe. You have the Iranians
there, supporting the militias. You`ve got the Saudis and the Turks
involved. And the area is close to the world`s biggest oil resources.

So, given terrorism, given the economy, given Iran, it`s difficult to
completely get out without running significant risks.

HAYES: Right.

KHALILZAD: Now that it is very easy to deal with it, as your comment
points out.

HAYES: Let`s take those in turn. There is the fact that many
international players are active in Iraq, including regimes we view as
rivals or enemies, and particularly Iran and what they`re doing in terms of
their support for Shia militias there.

But the argument that other people are active there means we have to
be, that doesn`t strike me as particularly persuasive. They may be making
mistake or they may have interests different than ours.

On the second front of terrorism, the idea that we are increasing our
risk to terrorism or increasing the threat of a terrorist attack against us
by withdrawing seems plausible. You might get a situation like the
Taliban, right, before 9/11. But it also seems plausible that escalating
military involve, bombing ISIS, also produces its own risk that we become
greater targets.

KHALILZAD: Well, you`re right, that bombing alone will not be the
answer. You`re right that if you bomb them, but they survive, and they
prosper even or become stronger, that that anger, resentment and in any
case they`re hostile to us, we were not in Afghanistan, al Qaeda and the
Taliban were there, were hostile to us.

But if we do not do anything, doesn`t mean they will not come after
us. So, the question is what is the lasting solution to this problem?
Bombing alone is not the answer. You need an arrangement in Iraq involving
mostly the locals, the Iraqis, Shia, Sunni and Kurds and regional players,
Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey that can produce a lasting solution.

What we`re doing in my view is not to destroy ISIS as such in a short
time, but to contain it while these other factors hopefully and I advocate
stronger diplomacy to bring these other factors to bear to get a lasting

HAYES: But you have just enunciated is something I`ve heard from a
number of people and other experts in the region, who basically talk about
that, trying to create some genuine sort of multiethnic and multi-sectarian
pluralistic state that can hold together. But that also just seems to me
so far from a reality that -- and the idea that we`re going to have some
military solution that gets us there, I have to say I remain pretty un-
persuaded that that is anywhere on the horizon.

KHALILZAD: Well, you`re right to be skeptical, but the alternative to
your skepticism isn`t that if we disengage and did nothing, everything will
go in the right direction. I think things could get a lot worse, in
particular regarding targeting us and our allies and our interest.

What I think is important, besides the locals that you point out to
get together in a multiethnic, multi-sectarian politics, now it`s the
region that is more important than we are. It is the Iranians, the Turks,
the Saudis that are important.

And that`s where we could -- bombing as I said is not the answer. It
is part of the answer. It is containing to bring diplomacy and regional
players together because without that, this problem will go on and we will
have to be doing this for a very long time.

HAYES: That`s the way it`s looking.

Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, thanks for joining me.

Up next, disturbing new evidence in the fatal police shooting of a man
carrying a pellet gun and the heartache of the 911 caller who alerted the


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made the call, doing the right thing.
(INAUDIBLE) I felt like (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Now, he comes in and they
shoot him. How do I feel? (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You know? I feel like if
I hadn`t called them, it wouldn`t have happened.



HAYES: Disturbing new evidence appears to contradict multiple police
accounts in the fatal shooting of a man carrying an unloaded air rifle. In
July 2013, Broward County sheriff`s deputy Peter Peraza fatally shot 33
year old Jermaine McBean after three people called 911 to report a man
walking out of a pawnshop through an apartment complex with a rifle.

Now, Peraza says he feared for his life and believed that McBean was
about to start shooting.

It turned out what McBean was carrying was an unloaded air rifle. And
at the time, Peraza said McBean ignored orders to drop what he was carrying
and there was
nothing obstructing his hearing.

A homicide detective working on the case corroborated those claims in
an email to the family, which was obtained by NBC News. I`m quoting here,
"the deputies who were on scene when the shooting occurred confirmed he did
not have anything in his ear. The phone and ear piece were later found in
his pocket at the hospital.

Now, nearly two years later, a photo has emerged calling those claims
by authorities into question. Ronan Farrow, working with the NBC News
investigative unit went to Florida to find out more.


I`ll see him at least once a week. But the night before he died, we spoke
and it was such a shock the next day to realize that I`m not going to see
him again.

McBean was 33 years old. A well liked IT engineer with a masters degree in
computer science. Everything changed one summer day in 2013 when Jermaine
made a trip to a local pawnshop and walked out carrying an air rifle.

Three people called 911, including Michael Russell McCarthy.

OPERATOR: 911, what is your emergency?

MICHAEL MCCARTHY, CALLER: Yeah, I`m on Dixie Highway just north of
Commercial Boulevard. There is a guy walking around carrying a rifle. It
looks like probably a .22 or pellet gun.

FAROW: It was a pellet gun, a Winchester model 1,000 air rifle.
Nonlethal and unloaded, something police officers didn`t know when they
followed Jermaine
McBean as he walked home to his apartment complex and fatally shot him.

Police say McBean pointed the air rifle at them. Michael McCarthy
tells a
different story.

Where was he holding the gun?

MCCARTHY: Right here.

FARROW: Right here. He was not pointing the gun at anyone?

MCCARTHY: There`s no way. I got it right here.

FARROW: At any point did Jermaine McBean point the gun at the

MCCARTHY: At any point he never pointed the gun at anyone.

FARROW: The officer who fired those fatal shots says Jermaine McBean
ignored police calls to drop the weapon and that nothing was obstructing
his hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was nothing in his ears
to show he couldn`t have heard anything you said?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so when you approached him, did you see
anything that would have obstructed his ability to hear?


UNIDENITIFIED MALE: So there was nothing in his ears that you saw?


FARROW: But a new photo is calling that claim into question. A nurse
whose apartment directly overlooked the shooting took this picture of
McBean`s body as
it lay on the ground after the shooting. A picture that appears to show
earbuds still in his ears.

DAVID SCHOEL, MCBEAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: This is where Jermaine fell.

FARROW: The family has retained a civil rights lawyer.

SCHOEL: I think there is a cover-up in a number of areas. The
headphones, the ear phones issue now is starting to come to light.

FARROW: They filed suit against the police, hoping it will bring
answers about what happened to Jermaine and why.

The police recently responded saying, quote, it was Jermaine McBean`s
conduct that is the sole cause of his alleged injuries and damages if any.

YOUNG: I`m trying to understand what conduct that would have been
because from the investigation, he was walking in his complex going home.

rifle. He didn`t have it in any threatening way and in any manner.

MCCARTHY: I made the call trying to think I was doing the right thing
because if he went somewhere and shot people, I would feel like (EXPLETIVE
DELETED). Now he comes in and they shoot him.

How do I feel? Like (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you know? I feel like, you
know, if I hadn`t called them, wouldn`t have happened.


HAYES: That was the NBC News investigative unit and MSNBC`s Ronan
Farrow reporting.

Np next, how a boat is now at the center of one of the most heated
disagreements in the world of politics. I will explain next.


HAYES: Somehow much of the debate in the political world yesterday
centered on this: a boat, specifically the Edgewater 245 CC which the
manufacturer bills
as great for both safety-minded family boaters and avid anglers.

The debate centered on whether the 245 CC counts as a speedboat and
whether it should be considered a, quote, luxury? And why you might ask
would anyone care? Well, because of this guy, senator and republican
presidential candidate Marco Rubio who reportedly bought such a boat after
getting an $800,000 book advance back in 2012.

The purchase of the boat was featured in a big New York Times article
yesterday headlined "Marco Rubio`s career bedeviled by financial
struggles," the
thrust of which was, basically, Marco Rubio is no good with money.

Rubio, quote, "splurged on an extravagant purchase, $80,000 for a
luxury speedboat," The Times reported, which is what prompted yesterday`s
very heated
discussion over the precise definition of luxury speedboat.

The Times story also detailed how Rubio used a state party credit card
for personal expensive, put his relatives on campaign payrolls, prematurely
liquidated a retirement account, maintained significant debt and little
savings and spent heavily on, quote, luxury items.

The story predictably kicked off a major backlash against The Times in
part because it came on the heels of another Times piece criticizing Rubio
and his wife for having gotten a combined, between the two of them, 17
traffic citations over 18 years, which most people didn`t think sounded so

Rubio himself only had four citations.

Now, Rubio successfully fund-raised off the New York Times stories,
himself as a relatable man of the people who struggled with student loans
and asking supporters to, quote, help Marco fight back against the elitist
liberals media.

It was almost enough to make me wonder if the Florida senator has a
plant at the paper of record churning out ostensible hit pieces really
designed to make him look good.

Joining me now, conservative Miami Herald columnist A.J. Delgado who
unlike me thinks Rubio`s finances are very much a legitimate story.

All right, I am in the -- I was basically found myself in strange
in the wake of this piece because I was basically in the this is a nothing
burger and not just a nothing burger, a weirdly kind of snobby judgmental
nothing burger in tone. You think it is legit?

AJ DLEGADO, MIAMI HERALD: Yeah, we`re in the twilight zone on your
defending Rubio and I`m criticizing him. But yeah I do think it`s
completely legitimate.

Listen, if somebody is running for the Republican Party nomination,
which theoretically one of the tenets is fiscal responsibility of my party,
right? Then we do have the right to ask questions and the natural question
arises here, is are you a fiscally responsible person in your own life?

And the answer seems to be with Rubio after you read that report, it
is not just the New York Times, this has been written about previously, the
answer seems to be no.

And it is not about his student loans. I have student loans myself,
same amount that he had, so that`s not the issue. I know his staff is
trying to spin it
into there are just, you know, it`s just elitism against someone with
student loans who has struggled. That`s not it. It is purely coming down
to whether he is good with managing money. You`re asking for the country
to trust you in doing this, you have to show you`re able to do it in your
own life. He`s not.

HAYES: OK, there is a number of things here. But first, I think this
is the key disagreement here, because it is an article of faith among
conservatives and Republicans that there is this correlation between a
household family budget and the federal budget. You heard it all the time,
particularly in 2010, 2012, you know, we have got to tighten our belt just
like a family budget in hard times.

Folks like myself say, no, they had nothing to do with each other.
You don`t manage a federal budget the way you manage your household budget.
You can`t print money in your household budget. Ergo, whether he wants to
buy a boat or not doesn`t strike me as relevant about where he`s going to

DELGADO; Fair enough.

HAYES: ...defense spending or sequester.

DELGADO; Let`s go with that. Let`s go with theoretically you could
be a terrible money manager in your household but you would be awesome at
balancing the national budget. OK. The point is still it goes to the
man`s intelligence.

I want an intelligent president. I want our nominee to be an
intelligent man. If you have this kind of mismanagement in your own
household budget and your own finances for years what does that tell me
about your intelligence?

And it was in The Times piece that you mentioned there is also an
issue about what do we know about your ethics? Because the PAC spending
and the credit card that he was mixing his personal expenses and putting
those on to the GOP credit card, there is also an ethics issue here.

And yesterday we were all so caught up talking about the boat, we
weren`t talking about the ethical issues that were brought up in the piece
as well.

HAYES: So, that is the best point. Let me just say also in terms of
the relationship between managing your money and intelligence, I think
that`s pretty dubious. F. Scott Fitzgerald was a pretty smart guy and his
household finances were a disaster as were many, many, many people.

But I think you make a good point, actually, because part of what is,
I think
misleading about The Times article is there is a bunch of stuff packaged
together, some of which is he sold his house for less than he paid for it.
Well, yeah, welcome to America after the big housing crisis, right.

The other is he was putting personal expenses on a party credit card,
which is -- you can`t do that. Like that actually seems to me more
legitimate. And then there is also the idea that he has got this
billionaire patron who is, you know, who is there and who is kind of, you
know, helping him out financially in various ways and you think about the
Bob McDonnell example in which there is a family that
seemed to be kind of struggling financially to keep up and keep up
appearances who ended up going to this wealthy businessman who then wants
favors, that seems to me a legitimate thing to be sort of anxious about.

DELGADO: And I think even if you`re not anxious about it, Braman is a
huge figure in Miami. He`s very well liked. I`m a big fan of his. Even
if you believe it was just -- there will be no quid pro quo here, the issue
is when you trying to come across as this relatable every man type of guy -
- I`m just this little guy and The New York Times is picking on me because
they`re elitist, you`re not an everyday ordinary guy. When I need a job
like Rubio did, I need more income, I don`t have this billionaire patron
that can call that will go and fund an FIU professorship for me to have
extra income.

That`s -- he`s trying to be both this guy that has all these
connections and he really does benefit from them and also be this little
guy that I`m just like you. You`re not just like me. You`re not like most
Americans, actually. So you really can`t have it both ways.

HAYES: A.J. Delgado who insisted to our bookers that we send a boat
to bring her to the studio tonight, thank you very much.

Coming up, are the white contrails in the sky created by jets flying
overhead actually filled with dangerous chemicals designed by the
government to control the population? You`ll have to stay tuned to find
out. Although I`ll tell you this much, no, they are not.



ALEX JONES: The UN says if you don`t play ball with them, they`ll
just spray you and shut down your weather. This is about genocide and
population reduction.

What they admit they`re spraying is brain damaging the population,
there`s neurological disorders go off the charts. As the honey bees die,
you name it.


HAYES: If you spend any time in the corners of the media world
devoted to conspiracy theories, you are bound to encounter the concept of
chem trails. It even occasionally pops into the mainstream, as in this
tweet from reality star Kylie Jenner asking about, quote, planes spraying
white stuff into the sky and what nefarious things they might be up to.

It probably surprise you to learn that chem trails aren`t, you know,
real. While you can often see a white mist coming off the back of a plane,
those are contrails, short for condensation trails and they are basically
small clouds that form when jet exhaust comes in contact with the
atmosphere. They are water.

So contrails are real and harmless whereas chem trails are fake,
although if you believe conspiracy theorists very bad news.

Nice graphic there guys.

Enter the Environmental Protection Agency which today announced it is
moving toward regulating aircraft emissions. Wait, what? Is it possible
the EPA is finally admitting Kylie Jenner and Alex Jones are right about
chem trails? Do we owe Alex Jones an apology? Was he offering prescient
warnings this whole time?

No. No, no. Not at all. The EPA wants to regulate carbon dioxide
emissions, which are exhaust, not chem trails.

Now the EPA even put out a fact sheet debunking the concept of chem
trails. In March, though, like this latest announcement, it likely only
helped fuel the certainty of conspiracy theories as articulated in a video
posted just today to YouTube.


UNIDENITFIED MALE: People just do not want to admit chem trails are
real. But I think you`re going to have to start admitting it, everyone.
It`s starting to become a little too obvious.


HAYES: The good news, as it were, is that chem trails are for most
part too
crazy for even the paranoid fringes of our electoral politics, although
some politicians have indulged the conspiracists. Arizona State Senator
Kelly Ward last summer presided over a discussion of chem trails, which she
said was in response to constituent concerns. She told the Arizona
Republic she doesn`t, quote, really have any opinions about chem trails one
way or the other, sort of a teach the controversy opinion.

Ward has been building buzz as a possible Republican primary foe to
Senator John McCain, but there is already speculation McCain is going to,
quote, call her Chem Trail Kelly.

So in summation, it turns out there is one way -- very concrete way
chem trails can hurt you, by scaring off potential donors for a senate run.


HAYES: Allow me to lay out the case that Lebron James is on the cusp
of the greatest performance in NBA finals history. Since 1985, all right,
if you look at single game playoff performances in which a player has
attempted at least 34 shots,
ten free throws, played at least 44 minutes, which is four minutes shy of
playing an entire regulation game, and had at least six assists, there have
only been five times in which this has happened.

First time was Michael Jordan in 1986. The next time was with Lebron
James, which happened last Thursday. The time after that was also with
Lebron, which happened last night. Then there was the time Lebron did it
this past Sunday and the fifth and final time it happened was with, you
guessed it, Lebron James in the playoff series against The Hawks last

In the first three games of the finals, Lebron has scored more points,
123, than anyone else the first three games of the finals ever. He leads
all players in the playoffs in minutes played, shots made and assists. In
addition to those categories, he leads his own team in points, rebounds and

So, go ahead, haters, be irrational, figure out a reason to root
against him. But right now he is carrying his team in a way that perhaps
no other player could. And he`s two wins away from being a step closer to
becoming, dare I say it, as a Bulls fan, the greatest of all time.

Joining me now, Sekou Smith from who is in Cleveland tonight.

I got to say, Sekou, when you look at the numbers, when you look at
the numbers and you look at what is happening in front of you, it is hard
to not think you are watching what could be the greatest final performance

SEKOU SMITH, NBA.COM: Oh, I don`t think there is any doubt, Chris,
that this is the makings of being if not the greatest, certainly one of the

And, well, Lebron James is doing this, not just making a couple of
guys better, he`s made an entire roster better. And very few guys in the
history of this game have done that. Magic Johnson certainly, you know,
lifted up the players around him. Michael Jordan did it in a similar

But the way Lebron does it on both ends and with every fiber of his
being is truly remarkable to watch.

HAYES: You know, there is criticism of him for his efficiency, his
field goal percentage is pretty low. He`s taking a lot of shots. He is
missing a lot of shots and the kind of -- the knock on Lebron of the Lebron
haters, which is a whole
kind of universe of people online, is that he`s a much less efficient
scorer than, say, I think, the person most think of the greatest of all
time, Michael Jordan. What do you think of that?

SMITH: I think, you know in this culture we have to find something to
nitpick. He went seven straight years in proving his efficiency, seven
straight, the best player on the planet, and improving every year. If he
wants to take a year off from worrying about his efficiency rating and
winning a championship, I don`t think anybody is going to care.

HAYES: Let me show you this chart. Because when you start running
the numbers, this is him -- since 1984, 1985, stacking up against others on
essentially the percentage of shots that they are -- the percentage of the
baskets that they are scoring field goals or assisting on, and you see up
at the top there`s one person who just sticks out way, way ahead at 66
percent. There`s nothing even in the ballpark, there is no one who has
ever gotten this far as single-handedly running things as Lebron is right
now having lost the two other best players on the team. It is like him and
four people that he picked up at a pickup game are now on the precipice of
winning the NBA finals.

SMITH: Yeah. It is stunning, you know. There is another stat that I
love, the Cleveland Cavaliers are shooting 49.3% on passes, you know, when
they make a field goal on passes from Lebron James. That means every time
the ball leaves his hand to one of his teammates, there is a 50 percent
chance the ball is going in the basket. That`s insane.

He`s a guy that we have never seen before in terms of his size and his
skill level and he`s doing things that as the stats show, very few people
have ever done in this game.

He`s going to have haters forever. But you can`t deny his greatness.
You can`t deny his place as the greatest player of his generation. And I
think we would be foolish not to enjoy it while it is going on.

HAYES: That I agree with.

Don`t you think, though -- I feel like the haters of Lebron are
diminishing, and I think in this classic sort of three-act drama, when the
second act was the I`m taking my talents to South Beach. He goes to the
dark side, he plays in all black for the Miami heat and they win, and
people love to hate that team,
comes back, local boy made good, loses the two best players. He`s playing
with four people who should never be in the NBA finals, that in some ways
people are rooting for him.

SMITH: There are a lot of people rooting for him. I mean, and you
would be surprised at how many people here in Cleveland have forgiven, not
forgotten, but
certain forgiven the way he departed.

If you win a championship here, a 51 year drought, let me tell you
something, he won`t have to worry about anybody hating him anymore.

HAYES: Yeah, one of the best stories of all time. Sekou Smith,
thanks for joining us.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts now.


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