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The Ed Show for Wednesday, June 10th, 2015

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Date: June 10, 2015
Guest: Byron Dorgan, Joe Conason, Deray McKesson, Sherrod Brown, Melissa



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For God sake don`t listen to Rumsfeld, he doesn`t know
what the hell he`s talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, new development.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: McKinney, Texas police officer has shown in this
video is off the court (ph).

JANE BISHKIN, CASEBOLT ATTORNEY: He allowed his emotions to get the better
of him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later, trade talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House to vote on Friday.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: Trade votes are never in each
lift around here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Mary Thomson where we`re.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re excited about moving forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And street smart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The benefit kids get from watching Sesame Street can
be as powerful as ones children get from pre-school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Kermit the Frog, returning you to your
regularly scheduled program.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. President Obama has repeatedly
emphasize that that the U.S. is not going back into Iraq but the
administration is walking a delicate line of not turning it`s back on the
Iraqi army either. Now tonight we know a bit more about what that means.
President Obama`s advisor drawing up new plans from military base in the
Anbar Province in Iraq. The goals support a select group of about 450 U.
S. military trainers who can advise Iraqi forces and how to get the job
done against ISIS including retaking the city of Ramadi.

Now this is a plan not an active operation, these troops could deploy this
summer. There are no easy policies solutions to ISIS or Iraq we know that.
But back here at home the politics of Iraq are pretty clear. Most
Americans now say the war was a mistake, so candidates in both parties can
succeed by starting with the obvious acknowledgement that Iraq War was
wrong. Yet, even that is proving difficult for some Republicans. There is
Jeb Bush who offered no fewer than three positions in the last month to one
of the wars architects Donald Rumsfeld.

Now this is pretty interesting the London Times reporting that a new
interview Donald Rumsfeld blames today`s problems in the Middle East on
President Obama`s unwillingness to confront ISIS and he says the Bush
administration plan to bring democracy to Iraq was unrealistic. This is
Donald Rumsfeld we`re talking about. The paper quotes him saying "I`m not
one who thinks that our particular template of democracy is appropriate for
other countries at every moment of their histories."

Now let`s stop, right here. Democracy may not be right for Iraq we can
debate it. But when Donald Rumsfeld was running the war in 2003, he
challenged the analyst who said the U.S. couldn`t simply install democracy
in their country.


RUMSFELD: The people said the Japanese couldn`t have a democratic system.
People said the Nazis couldn`t be replaced with a democratic system. Is
someone smart enough to know that the Iraqis are for whatever reason unique
on the face of the Earth, that they are not capable of living in a free
system? I don`t know that. I`m hopeful that`s wrong.


MELBER: There is more the London Times also reporting Rumsfeld said "The
idea that we could fashion democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic, I
was concerned about it when I first heard those words".

And that`s remarkable, that would be important claim if true because
Rumsfeld wasn`t expressing that concern publically when the war began in
2003 instead declaring Iraq could conceivably be a model democracy.


RUMSFELD: Iraq could conceivably become a model, proof that a moderate
Muslim state can succeed in the battle against extremism taking place in
the Muslim world today. The transition to democracy will take time. It
will not be a smooth road. The eventual political outcome will be decided
by the Iraqi people, within the broad principles of the rule of law,
minority rights, individual liberty, and something approximating
representative democracy.


MELBER: So, those are all quotes and I think they speak for themselves, if
nothing else and if Rumsfeld if he does have a new line it may reflect the
simple politics of Iraq. Today, but the story doesn`t stop there. Last
night he called in Fox News to push back on that article.


RUMSFELD: Well, it`s non sense. The article was not accurate. Actually
what I said was that when our goal when we went in was to have Saddam
Hussein gone, to have a leadership in the country that would not invade its
neighbors, would not have weapons of mass destruction and would be
reasonably respectful of the various diverse ethnic groups the Kurds, the
Shias and the Sunnis.


MELBER: I`m not sure that he cleared that up. But we want to get your

Get your cellphones out. We want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question is a simple one, "Does Donald Rumsfeld have any credibility left
on the Iraq War? Just asking.

Go to You can cast your vote. We`re going to bring
you the results later in the show as we always do.

Joining me now on this important topic former North Dakota Senator Byron
Dorgan and journalist Joe Conason of The National Memo, who`s the author of
"It can happen here" a book about the Bush administration approach to
foreign policy and governing. Good evening to you both.



MELBER: Joe, let me start right here. This matter for 2016 because the
past is not only prolog, Paul Wolfowitz Rumsfeld`s deputy at the time of
the Iraq War is advising Jeb Bush. What do you make of Donald Rumsfeld
dance here?

CONASON: Well, one of known knows is that Rumsfeld has tried to revise his
remarks. He thinks he told us about Iraq for like more than almost 12
years now. Going back to the prewar period he told us that he knew where
the weapons of mass destruction where, he describe them in great detail, he
told us the location. None of that turn out to be true. Then 2006 he
pretended he hadn`t said that. Then in 2011 he wrote memo and said "Oh, I
made a mistake when I was talking about that and sorry about that".

The fact is the presence of people like Donald Rumsfeld on the scene is a
reminder to people why Jeb Bush is not necessarily the best candidate for
president. Even among all the Republicans some of whom have said "Yes, the
war in Iraq was an error and I wouldn`t have done it". Now, Jeb Bush as
you said has had different position on that.

But every time somebody like Rumsfeld talks brings up the war or any of the
things that lead to the war. It reminds people, hey. This is a name that
associates with one of the grievous errors in American, you know, diplomacy
and military operations. There were so many things that went wrong in Iraq
of such a stain on the United States.

The cost of the war $3 trillion and counting, other grab (ph) disgrace
which, you know, shows why it was ridiculous to claim we`re inserting
democracy into that country. We`re bringing brutality there unfortunately.

MELBER: Yeah. And Senator Doragan when you talk to a certain Republican
and some commentators they say "Look, this is a long time ago, we have new
challenges. Now we have to move on". Is that right?

DORGAN: Well, we certainly had learned from it and I`m not so sure that
some have learned from it given the remarks of the former secretary of
defense. As can you imagine I sat through a lot of top secret hearing with
the secretary of defense, head of the CIA, the Vice President, Conley
Horizon (ph) many, many others. George Turner.

And what we heard it turned out not to be true at all just false, a great
deal of false information on which America when to war in Iraq, but even
more important than that this question of leading Iraq towards a democracy.
What happened? Is the team that was send there by the Bush administration
created the staggeringly incompetent government, very corrupted, they just,
you know, first of all the coalition provisional authority a programer,
they disbanded the army, disbanded the police force, supported Maliki
eventually that turned out to have a pretty corrupt government who decided
to get rid of the Sunnis.

And so, look they`ve, you know, there`s bumper sticker onward through the
fog (ph). I mean that`s what this reminds of what I heard secretary
Rumsfeld out talking about what happen back then.

MELBER: Well, you know, we`re looking -- you mentioned your oversight
committee as we`re looking back at this today. You talk about that the
corruption side, the failure there, the vacuum it created which in addition
to Syria which of course is a separate issue was part of what created this
further breeding ground for ISIS and other enemies of ours that are far
more dangerous to United State then Saddam Hussein, I want to play a little
bit Senator of you when you were overseeing some of these in the Senate.


DORGAN: There`s abuse, overcharges, fraud, to let a few special big
companies wallow like hogs in a trough and waste misappropriate and defraud
the taxpayers of millions -- tens of millions perhaps hundreds of millions
of dollars does no service to support American troops. We don`t support
our troops by allowing this to continue.


MELBER: So, how much of that history do you think is forgotten or hasn`t
fully seeped in because with the Jeb Bush debate there was also a lot of
defense on the right of saying "Well, yeah but the intelligence at the time
demanded this when that was also an open question with a lot of reports
going the other way on WMDs.

DORGAN: Well, you know, we didn`t have chairmanship I share the policy
committee from our caucus. I held 23 hearings without subpoena power. We
had, you know, a substantial number of people even from Iraq come and
testify. And the abuse, the waste, the fraud was unbelievable in terms of
what was created over there after the evasion.

But, you know, my hope is that, it`s not difficult for anybody who`s not
running for president to answer the question. Was it mistake? Hell, yes
that mistake. I think Joe just said it one of the great blinders in my

MELBER: Yeah. And I want to play a little more of Donald Rumsfeld on his
sort of follow up explanation to your Joe. Take a listen him again talking
about how it works and how complex the region is. This is also on Fox


RUMSFELD: We were not there to be occupiers and I`m for democracy but my
concern about the word was that it would leave the impression in that
country, inaccurately, that the United States intended to impose its form
of democracy on their country.


MELBER: So, I think the details matter Joe. He`s no just saying "Hey,
this is why it worked or made us safer, right that sort of straight up
geostrategic argument.


MELBER: He`s also going back into what we`re trying to do there and as we
show in the open we have a whole new record of him and President Bush
saying it was for democracy.

CONASON: Well, it`s actually bigger than Ari. You know there was a group
that Jeb Bush was affiliate with project for new American century that had
laid out a plan for Iraq long before they decided to invade. And the plan
was we were going to use Iraq as a staging area to turn the Middle East
into a democracy an area of democracy.

This was sort of Utopian pipe dream that guess had. And Jeb Bush signed on
that even earlier than his brother did. So, when thought ones -- Rumsfeld
talks about this. It has to be put into that context of an overall policy
strategy that was not just a failure but enormous failure because what we
ended up with was not only grave cost to our country and blood and
treasure. But, you know, a country of Iraq that is influence by Iran.

I mean if you were worried about Iran as they claim to be. We`ve now
created not a puppet government but an allied government to Iran in that
region. And that is an ongoing problem and they sort of never even
conceive that was going to happen because they seem to know very little and
pay very little attention to anybody who did know anything about it.

MELBER: And Senator just lastly as you look at the Republican field here.
Is there anyone that you see having learned the right lessons?

DORGAN: Well, there so many of them. I`m not study all of the records --
about 15 at this point I think. Well, I just hope all of them would have
learned this lesson. I don`t know. I mean assume they`re all going to be
question very substantially about their view of these issues and what role
American should play in that region in the future. So, that will
instructive to us as we go along.

MELBER: Yeah, I think it`s truly one of the important parts of these
debates. People get so frustrated about so much in this campaign and the
big money and the rhetoric. But we have gone some straight talk for some
of them. I think Rubio and Lindsey Graham talking about doubling down in
his policies.

DORGAN: Right.

MELBER: Rand Paul is one who`s talking about a different direction and
they got to figure that out because I don`t see how you run as a general
election pro Iraq War candidate, Senator Byron Dorgan and Joe Conason.
Thanks for joining me tonight.

CONASON: Thanks a lot.

DORGAN: Thank you.

MELBER: Now remember to answer tonight question at We
will have the result after the break.

And coming up, the attorney for Officer Casebolt speaking out following his
resignation, we`re going to look what`s next for that investigation in
McKinney, Texas. People are talking about that all of the country today.

And later, as the House prepares to vote on Fast-Track more American
actually want them to put the breaks on the TPP. We have the numbers stay


MELBER: Here`s where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. The question,
"Does Donald Rumsfeld had any credibility on the Iraq War?"

You can see the result there 92 to 8. Keep voting at
throughout the hour and we, we`ll be right back.


MELBER: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

For the first time we heard he`s statement today from Officer Eric
Casebolt. He resigned after cellphone footage showed him in that dramatic
confrontation drawing a gun on teenagers and also using what many consider
questionable force at that Texas pool party.

Now investigators are still trying to find out what lead exactly up to that
scene. Casebolt`s attorney says that he was responding at two suicide call
that were earlier in the day and that affected his judgment.


BISHKIN: With all that happened that day, he allowed his emotions to get
the better of him. He apologizes to all who are offended.


MELBER: Casebolt was attendance today and he didn`t attend the McKinney
police news conference on Tuesday where Chief Greg Conley single out
Casebolt`s action. Eric Casebolt basically removes himself from the force
immediately hoping to potentially take a lot of the attention for this
incident with him.


BISHKIN: It is his hope that by his resignation will facilitate the
cooperative relationship between the citizens and the police officers of
the city of McKinney.


MELBER: And of course the other question the story in terms of hearing
from Casebolt side he`s attorney`s saying race was not a factor.


BISHKIN: He believed that those who fled were possible suspects. He was
not targeting minorities. In fact, he also detained a white female who you
do not see on the video.


MELBER: What ever the details of this incident the broader conversation
race in policing is far from over. And Senator Rand Paul brought the topic
at a donor even just last night.


SEN. RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: What I am telling you is that white kids
don`t get the same justice because the police go with there are more
people. There are more people where there`s more concentration in the
cities and more African-Americans.


MELBER: And investigation in Casebolt conduct is ongoing. A full scale
inquiry into department practices however, has not been started.

Joining me now by phone is Joy Reid who`s been covering the story here for
MSNBC as well as Deray McKesson an activist and organizer. Hello, to both
of you Joy, let me start with you and tell us the latest not that there has
been a big change obviously in this individual officers situation.

attorney for Eric Casebolt did acknowledge that in theory he could face an
investigation into what a lot of activist on the ground in McKinney what to
see which is criminal charged. Lots of people going throwing around the
term assault and saying that he`s treatment -- affect him grow to the level
of assault and I can tell you I`m standing right now outside of the office
of the attorney who represent jury affected on her family.

So we`re waiting to see what that attorney has to say and how she may
respond to the updated information exactly (ph) which is include a fairly
oblique apology that on redirect the attorney did acknowledge include Ms.
Baker (ph).

MELBER: And Deray, bringing you in here. You have been sort of advocate
and volunteered an activist on a lot of these types of police issue around
the nation. This one seems different than some in that the video left a
lot of people feeling that officer`s conduct was wrong, and he`s
supervisors immediately said as much. What do you think is important at
this point?

briefing, one is that this video shows us that the police in community of
color escalate really quickly and it`s about control more than it`s about
deescalation in safety. We also saw that casual (ph) on this with which he
pulled his gun out. And it showed a disregard for like of other people
especially young kids in bikinis and swim trunks.

And the third is this thing that like their mini McKinney`s across the
country just like their mini Ferguson`s and Baltimore`s and Cleveland`s.
And it`s a reminder that people in communities of color always under threat
by the police in situation like this. So, he`s resignation is important.
It`s important that he is no longer an officer but not yet justice because
he needs to be held accountable for his actions and he hasn`t been yet.

MELBER: And with regard to the video from your perspective and knowledge
of what allow to the protest groups have been doing, is there any sort of
systemic effort or organized effort to get more videos made or the trained
people in this? Because it does seem to be something that can change the
way otherwise question incidents would be processed.

MCKESSON: Yeah. The videos are really important. The reality is that
we`ve been telling the truth about police violence in our lives. The only
thing that`s different now is that the truth is becoming mainstream because
of tweets, vines and videos. That`s the only thing that`s different right
now. So, the videos are really important. It helps people see the truth
that we`ve been telling on entire lives.

MELBER: And Joy, what about the police side of this which is even when
individual incidence are wrong or in this case you have the police coming
down on the officer`s conduct, what you hear from a lot of officers both on
and off the record as well as definitely the police unions is look any
individual incident can go down a certain way and make the officer look
aggressive, but the statistics on the threat facing officers are not in
doubt and they are under tremendous risk and danger then it`s hard to
appreciate in real time sometimes looks different after the fact, Joy.

REID: Well, I mean, I think one thing is on the specific but I think it`s
pretty clear that the number of police involve shooting in which an officer
shoots a civilian far out way the number of police officers who were shot
that said in both cases is a tragic consequence. I think if you want to
talk about the police union in this particular case.

The union is still standing behind this officer and it`s a very sharp
contrast to the chief of police in McKinney who came down very hard on the
officer`s conduct said it was indefensible, had very harsh word for him,
but also had craze for the other 11 officers. One of then you can see on
the video and I can tell you that we spoke yesterday with the only person
that arrested in this case who charges has now been dropped. The young man
who was briefly arrested who said that he thought the other two officers
had chase him after that gun was draw on him behaved professionally.

So, I think the chief of police at McKinney really wanted to draw that
contract between the other 11 officers who were on that scene and the now
ex-officer Eric Casebolt. And then, the other thing I will say is on the
other hand, we have been inconsistently police who is very supportive of
officers in this situation and that is also the case here. In (inaudible)
that`s representing in is a union attorney.

MELBER: And Deray, Rand Paul also had some comments that anger with
policing. Listen to him here.


PAUL: when I see people angry and upset, I`m not here to excuse violence
in the cities, but I see people angry. I understand some of the anger is
coming from.


MELBER: Do you view that as any kind of victory for some of this protest
or what do you want to see from politicians?

MCKESSON: Yeah. It`s important that people tell the truth about what`s
happening in the communities and that same of from Rand Paul was the truth
is that people are angry because the police are killing people. The police
had killed 500 people alone in 2015. And what we see in McKinney like
we`ve seen in other cities that this is definitely racially coded.

We saw in McKinney that officer was being much more aggressive with the
black young people that he had his knees in her back and he wasn`t afraid
of her. She was wearing a bikini. There was nothing she was going to do
that was going to be a threat. And you see that the videographer, he even
said, you know, I was essentially invisible when I was filming. So, it`s
important that politicians and staff are recognizing and acknowledging that
racist underpinning the violence and aggression that the police are --
exhibiting in communities of color.

MELBER: And Deray, I will -- I also wanted to ask you, I saw when you were
on another news channel interview last night, there was sort of this
accusation level that you`re somehow profiteering of this protest and the
movement and I wanted to give you a chance to respond to any of that if
there`s anymore you want to say if that`s a concern some people have about
aspects of the protest or your role.

MCKESSON: You know, in communities across the country around the host of
issues, people have been organizing and mobilizing. This movement is about
police violence but their other movements on climate change and same-sex
marriage that are mobilizing and activating communities and this is no

I said yesterday and I`ll say today is that I am not personally receiving
any funds right now from anybody. I`ve been using my savings and money
from family to help me out. But there are people who are -- organizing as
a part of their work and that is important and that is necessary across the
host of issues.

MELBER: All right. I hear that and we always like to hear from the
grassroots and different people doing different kinds of work. So, Deray
McKesson, thank you and Joy Reid reporting for MSNBC, thank you as well.

REID: Thank you.

MELBER: And still to come, Congress gets ready to vote on an uncool trade
measure, Former Senator Byron Dorgan back with us to share his beep for the
Senate`s latest move, will explain.

And next, an update on the search for two escaped prisoners in Upstate New
York, that big, big story.

Stay tuned. You`re watching the Ed Show on MSNBC.


MELBER: Welcome back. There still no sign of those two convicted
murderers who escaped from an Upstate New York prison on Saturday. The
search has now entered its fifth day as authorities are conducting door to
door searches in Willsboro and Dannemora, New York.

This afternoon, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and Vermont Governor Peter
Shumlin basically held a press conference about the search. They announced
the massive manhunt would be expanding to Vermont.

Governor Shumlin there is saying that there was information the men might
be headed there.


GOV. PETER SHUMLIN, (D) VERMONT: I`m going to be careful at what I
confirmed. This is an ongoing investigation. What I can tell you is that
we have information as suggest that they thought that New York was going to
be hot, Vermont would be cooler in terms of law enforcement and that a camp
in Vermont might be a better place to be than New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where in Vermont?

SHUMLIN: We do not.


MELBER: Authorities say that Vermont and New York State Police will be, of
course, in close contact. They`re asking Vermont residents to stay
vigilant and report any suspicious activity at remote seasonal camps. For
more, we bring in NBC News Correspondent, John Yang.

John, obviously there`s a trade-off there. Authorities have made a
decision and rather put this kind of information out to get people to help
with the search, but if these guys on the loose have access any media, they
now know their little Vermont camping plan is out of the back.

JOHN YAN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, that also get sort of force them
to stay put in New York, if they are indeed still here in New York and the
last serious tip that they had was yesterday about Willsboro, New York down
about 45-50 miles southeast of here (ph) on Lake Champlain. Now, officials
say that the activity today going door to door sort of retracing old ground
here in Dannemora was not base on any new information.

What they were trying to do one official said was that they wanted to start
back a ground zero at the prison and then spread out from there go back
over all ground go back, see if there`s anything they missed and I can tell
you just here on this neighborhood this afternoon we saw them going through
buildings with dogs that they have gone through before, going into houses
in this neighborhood they were empty with dogs.

Nothing has turned up everything has come up empty so far and today at that
press conference as officials acknowledge that they really have no idea
where they are, there are no closer to getting them then they were before.
Now, I can also tell that Joyce Mitchell the woman who was been identified
as a person of interest continues to be questioned she`s the teacher in the
tailor shop in the prison where both escapees worked. They continue to
talk to her investigators say that they are continuing to get information
from her and then once this questioning is over they expect her to be
charge, Ari.

MELBER: Wow, John Yang thank you for joining us, very interesting update
there. As the Ed Show stick around and a lot more coming up right after

Market Wrap.

Stocks surge across the board, the DOW climbs 236 points back in deposit
territory for the year, the S&P up 25, the NASDAQ adds 62 points.

One of the factors behind today`s rally a 2 percent increase in oil prices,
the government said crude oil stock piles fell more than expected last
week. And shares of Netflix rose more than 3.5 percent, Marriott Hotel the
offering Netflix on hotel TVs by the end of 2016.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


MELBER: Welcome back to the Ed show. House Republicans could vote on
Fast-Track trade authority from President Obama this week. Republican
House leaders are confident that`s according to a report in POLITICO, but
did not yet certain they have all the votes it should be close basically no
matter and depending on the whipping. The vote could come Friday or moving
to next week.

Now early today Congressman Paul Ryan the House Republicans held the press
conference on the whole issue Congressman Ryan pushing hard for this new
trade deals.


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: This is how you get higher-paying jobs,
faster economic growth, more global engagement. The rules of the global
economy are being written right now there`s no question about that. The
question is who`s going to write the rules? Is it America and our allies
or it who will be other nations that don`t share our values? 95 percent of
the world`s consumers they don`t live in this country they live in other
countries. And so, it`s absolutely critical that we open up these markets
so we can grow and make more things in America that sell them overseas.


MELBER: And you don`t see this everyday, but Republicans like Ryan are
backing President Obama on all this and for his part of President has been
doing a targeted push with local press to ramp up pressure for the trade


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are afraid under the Trans-Pacific Partnership
we could see more jobs going to Vietnam and Malaysia.

OBAMA: Well, first of all I think it`s important to remember the jobs
gain. We know that, you know, in the global trading system, 95 percent of
world`s market where outside the United States, we sell a bunch of stuffs
out there and about a third of our recoveries since the economic crisis I`m
inherited when came to office. About a third of that growth has been
export driven. And it creates millions of jobs here in the United States.


MELBER: So the President and Paul Ryan both using that 95 percent line.
Now here some other numbers, the recent poll commissioned by the alliance
for American manufacturing showing that what Americans are ask to weigh a
jobs versus affordable products, 84 percent say they think it`s actually
more important protect the American jobs than just get cheap goods and
while foreign currency trading might not sound like a kitchen table issue,
this is interesting 73 percent of people saying they would oppose a deal
that doesn`t bar currency manipulation. These results are also in line
with the new NBC News online survey we talk about the Ed Show last night,
showing Americans would rather have jobs protected over cheap foreign

For more let`s go right to Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio. Good evening

SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: Thank you Ari, good to be with you thanks.

MELBER: You look at all this, first of all, what do you think about both
the reality of Ryan and Obama being together on this and then the merits of
the arguments they just made that we just play?

BROWN: They were working not just of each others talking points. They
were saying the same things I`ve heard since NAFTA on every trade
agreement, we see big promises, job growth, wages going up, but after each
trade agreement we see the opposite of that most recently Korea. Four
years ago administration U.S. trade representative people like Paul Ryan
promised 75,000 increase jobs would be with because of trade with Korea.
We`ve actually seen the reverse, we seen 70,000 jobs lost.

Clearly these trade agreements don`t work as promised and Congress and, you
know, wants interesting here is this Fast-Track was rushed through the
Senate. We did it all on a few days, the last there was Fast-Track a dozen
years ago it took three weeks, they took a lots of amendments, we consider
almost none because Mitch McConnell shutdown debate. They`re rushing
through the house if they move on Friday.

The same kind of way and you don`t -- when this is this is going to be 60
percent of the world`s economy will be inside TPP and the U.S. a new trade
agreements 60 percent of the worlds commerce. I mean biggest trade
agreement by far. It`s too secretive, it`s going too fast, it`s too big,
without enough discussion without enough debate.

And we`ve learned that the more light that shine on that shown on this
debate, on this agreements the less the public likes it that`s why there`s
speeding it through, that`s why Paul Ryan is mimicking the president or
President is mimicking Paul Ryan by saying making this big promises than we
always hear about trade agreement.

MELBER: So yeah, you mentioned the promises so you`re saying you don`t
believe the Presidents promises here?

BROWN: Well, I believe the Presidents saying what he scripted to say on
this and what Presidents have always said. My first year in Congress --
well, it was the president my party Bill Clinton on.

MELBER: Senator scripted, scripted by whom?

BROWN: Well, I don`t know scripted by staff scripted by the people on the
sky that always write the language for trade agreements. I mean it`s the
same argument we`ve heard for 25 years.


BROWN: Big promises about NAFTA, big promises about P&T arm (ph), big
promises about the Central American free trade agreement, big promises
about South Korea and now big promises about TPP and Fast-Track. They just
don`t work out that way. I don`t need that poll that you cited. I`ve had
major town hall meetings in Dayton, in Toledo, in Campton, in Youngtown, in
Cleveland, on this trade agreement coming up.

There is a strong public opposition because the public gets -- they`ve seen
these promises and they`ve seen what`s happened in terms of lost jobs in
their community. It`s all clear.

MELBER: And then the whole debate about currency manipulation. Just in
plain English, what is that and why is that important here?

BROWN: Well, China particularly gains the currency system they way they
buy and sell currency in such a way that they gives their exports from
China to the U.S. It makes them cheaper so U.S. companies, so they get a
subsidy against U.S. companies come competing with them and we can`t
compete because the playing field is a level.

When we sell things into China, it adds to the price of our companies goods
in China. So they can sell in China. So we hurt just both ways, China
knows that. We don`t stand up on a currency manipulation.

When I hear Paul Ryan say that we`ve got in the game at the table writing
the rules. We need to challenge their currency systems first of all.
Their currency behavior, we`ve not done that President Bush the first
didn`t do it. President Clinton didn`t do it. President Bush II didn`t do
it. President Obama is not doing it and that`s where you start.

If we want to engage in East Asia, you don`t start with this huge trade
agreement that undercuts American jobs in our communities, in our small
businesses. You start with currency.

MELBER: I thought that was a funny angle for him as well. Just wanting
thing to say, look, there`s a trade off on jobs and long-term planning and
do you want to make the policy trade off, it`s nothing to pretend that this
somehow gives more autonomy to United States when we do know the rules that
are drafted abroad and they are locked in.

Senator Sherrod Brown, thank you for your time and telling about the issue.

BROWN: Good (inaudible). Thank you.

MELBER: Meanwhile, the House is expected to vote and repeal Country-of-
origin labeling later today, it`s called COOL and this is a common sense
rule to make sure corporations have to tell you where your meat comes from
under current law. Any beef sold in the U.S. must include a clear label
showing where it`s from.

Now, without that requirement, beef could be shift in from another
continent and consumers wouldn`t necessarily even know it.

Critics say to House is basically reversing its own rule because of
economic pressure from Canada and Mexico. While we were just talking about
with Senator Brown and they have threaten a multibillion-dollar tariff over
the issues that release other countries and the body that governs trade,
the WTO, ruled in May that the listing where beef comes from is actually
now a NAFTA violation.

Just to put that on the beef and it`s causing up work from Democrats and
some food activists who say this is another example on how the free trade
deals can actually serve to overwrite or sort of bully existing U.S.
federal law and they are specifically using it to argue against the TPP.

Here`s Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro on the House floor just moments ago.


REP. ROSA DELAURO, (D) CONNECTICUT: Today the House of Representatives is
getting ready to repeal Country-of-origin labeling. Why? Because the
World Trade Organization ruled against it. A trade agreement ruled against
it. Contrary to what the President has said. Trade agreements have a
direct affect on our sovereignty. They have the ability to uproot domestic
laws here in the United States.


MELBER: For more let me bring in former North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan
nice to see again. How are you doing?

DORGAN: Thank you. Good, thanks.

MELBER: Good, so right up the gait here is seems like something consumers
would care about and it might be politically dizzy for the Congress to just
hold on.

DORGAN: Well, I think people might wonder why on earth is this a trade
issue. I mean if this country decides as we have and I was involved in
those early debates about Country-of-origin labeling, if we decided, we
want the American people to go to the grocery store and pick up a wrapped
roast and find out where it was produced, where it was processed, is it the
U.S? Maybe they want to know that. So, we now have Country-of-origin
labeling or they pick some chicken, was that chicken processed in a factory
in China where there has been some substantial problems. Consumers want to
know that.

So, we should not have done trade agreements that make that a trade barrier
such that we`ve decided as a country, we don`t want our consumers to have
that information. That`s not a trade issue in my judgment.

MELBER: Yeah, it`s funny. I don`t know if one of things where people
aren`t necessarily paying how much attention or you know, it takes kind of
a big scandal, incident, or canned meat got forbid, to get the attention
but, you remember when everyone was complaining, oh my god, Sharia law and
all these cooked up things about foreign law, that weren`t even really
happening. This is a real thing, right Senator?

DORGAN: It is.

MELBER: This is other countries going to WTO and saying we don`t want to
have to compete and what would essentially be what an honest market?

DORGAN: Sure. And you know, look, the word trade, let`s trade, that`s all
fine. But when we negotiate trade agreements, let`s do it in a way that
requires others to lift up their standards rather than our country to dump
down their standards.

Country-of-origin labeling giving the American people the right to know
where does this kind of meat come from? Makes a lot of sense. You know,
on the trade issue we have a nearly half a trillion dollar trade deficit
this year and so, we`re not negotiating these agreements very well. Maybe
that`s why I don`t know why, but maybe that`s why you have to go see the
agreement in secret and the secret room in the Congress. You and I haven`t
seen the agreement because it`s not available and I think some parts of it
are not yet complete.

MELBER: Yeah, I don`t mean to sound sarcastic when I say, is there
something really off when the Congress can`t give most of its regular order
business done. But what and I`m not trying to say it`s bad it`s coming
from another country but what, some other country has a complaint because
it`s going to hit their bottom line for what they want to sell and the
House is rushing to repeal something and that`s we get to action?

DORGAN: Yeah. And they talked about you know, the world market. Listen
there is only one market on the face of this planet. That is as important
and as big as the United States marketplace and we have to reasonably say
to other people, you`re welcome to come to our marketplace. We want to
take a look and perhaps purchase your products. But here are the standards
we expect you had to meet when you come here with your food and pesticides
and other things in terms of producing products. So, I just think it`s
really important to stand up for our economic interest as we create fair
trade laws.

MELBER: Yeah. I hear that from Senator Byron Dorgan. Thanks for joining

DORGAN: Thanks a lot.

MELBER: Still ahead. You don`t want to miss this. This is real. A new
study choose the Big Bird produces big brains find out how Sesame Street,
actually its impacting students well beyond their pre-school years, that`s


MELBER: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll, tonight`s
question, "Does Donald Rumsfeld have any credibility on Iraq War?"

As the kid say just asking. You can keep voting until the end of the hour
at and we, will be right back.


MELBER: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have some good news now about
right-wing political pressure that just backfire Reverand Franklin Graham
recently launched a critic of a major bank, but he wasn`t concerned about
Wall Street bonuses or ATM fees or bail out money. The usual issues people
have know the Reverend was upset that the bank ran an ad which happened to
include a same sex couple adopting a child. He took the Facebook and
asked, "How can we fight the tide of moral decay that is being crammed down
our throats by big business, the media and the gay and lesbian community."

He also announced that his organization would stop banking with Wells Fargo
all because of this and he urges his fans, "Stop doing business with those
who promote sin and stand against almighty God`s laws".

And Graham went ahead and switch to BB&T Bank which is also a supporter of
gay rights, in fact a CEO tells, "That bank embraces diversity and
inclusion as a compelling growth strategy" it`s little business speak and
it`s listed as a platinum sponsor of the Miami beach gay pride event, a
huge beach rally that can drop to 80,000 people kind of hard to miss. And
a good news here is even Graham look harder he have a pretty hard time
finding a big bank that shares what he`s calling his values. If he wants
the bank more in line with his beliefs he`ll have to cross off Bank of
America, Capital One, George Bank, HSBC and TD Bank as well

They`re actually all among the 379 companies and growing that signed an
important amicus brief earlier this year, urging with Supreme Court to
support national marriage equality that case decision could come down in
the next three weeks. And Reverand Graham might want to consider
deactivating his Facebook page while he`s at it they sign that brief too.

All right a lot more coming up on the Ed Show right after this, stay tune.


MELBER: And now the story that we are not making up just to make you feel
better, a new study show in TV is healthy for you. To economists found
Sesame Street provides more than entertainment value for young children.
Phillip Levine of Wellesley College and Melissa Kearney of the University
of Maryland find that the show is the largest and least costly early
childhood intervention in this country. Study found pre-school aged
children who watch the show when it first aired in 1969 experienced
improved educational outcomes.

The children were more likely to be at the grade level appropriate for
their age. That`s all based on scientist data and the authors note that
this trend was most pronounced among certain groups including boys and
black youths. The impact was even more significant for children located in
economically disadvantage areas.

The authors estimate that the shows impact comes at a cost of about $5 per
child in today`s dollars. And we are joined now by Melissa Kearney,
Economics Professor at the University of Maryland who co-authored the
study. She`s also a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Good


MELBER: What did you find?

KEARNEY: Well, I think, you did a nice job summarizing it. We find that
for that first generation of children who were pre-school age when Sesame
Street was introduced in 1969. When they got to school, they were better
prepared. They were less likely -- substantially less likely to fall
behind the grade.

The effect as you said was most pronounced for boys, African-Americans and
kids from economically disadvantaged areas. It`s no worthy that this was
precisely the goal of the creators of Sesame Streets. So, in a large
sense, our findings suggest they accomplished their goal.

MELBER: How did you control to make sure you were isolating the right
factor that is that you knew it was Sesame Street that was doing this and
not something else?

KEARNEY: Right. Thank you for that question. So, what we did was we took
advantage of technological limitations in broadcast at that time. So, when
Sesame Street came on the air in 1969, people received their programming
either through a UHF channel or VHF channel.

VHF was the more reliable broadcast and so, for kinds who were growing up
in cities where through know fault (ph) of their own, Sesame Street just
happened to be broadcast on UHF stations. They were much less likely to be
able to receive that broadcast signal in their homes.

So, for example, kids who grew up in L.A. or D.C. or Ohio at the time had a
very, very limited access to the show as compared to kids who were living
in New York City or Boston or Chicago. They are almost every kid could
receive Sesame Street. And so, that`s great for us as researchers because
it sets up this comparison group of kids who, again, don`t have choice of
their parents.

MELBER: Right.

KEARNEY: They just didn`t have access to the show.

MELBER: And so, what do you think parents and policy-makers should take
from this?

KEARNEY: I think this is a really encouraging finding and it suggest that
Sesame Street and perhaps television or electronic content more broadly can
be leverage for real social good. It can really help prepare kids
academically for school. This is, you know, inexpensive and a great thing
for us to scale up.

MELBER: I hope you can do follow-up work on whether Cookie Monster really
makes kids more into cookies because he was so obsessed with them when
you`re little. It almost gets you more excited for dessert. Melissa

KEARNEY: But now he says there is sometimes snack.

MELBER: Thank you for joining us tonight.

That is the Ed Show. I`m Ari Melber in for Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts now.


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