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PoliticsNation, Friday, June 12th, 2015

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Show: POLITICS NATION
Date: June 12, 2015
Guest: Sheila Isenberg; Clarence Page; Victoria Defrancesco Soto, Maria
Teresa Kumar, Ryan Grim, Dana Milbank

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on "Politics Nation," police arrest
the woman who allegedly helped those escaped murderers with the jail break.
A news conference expected within the hour. We`ll go live to the scene.

The Hillary Clinton re-launch. A big rally tomorrow, but can she get a big
turnout from the Obama coalition?

And did this activist lie about who she was? I`ll talk about what really
matters when it comes to race and civil rights.

Breaking news tonight, Joyce Mitchell, the prison worker accused of helping
two murderers escape from an upstate New York prison, has been arrested.
Mitchell has been charged with promoting prison contraband, a first degree
offense and criminal facilitation. We`re expecting a news conference
shortly on her arrest. The police also confirming today Joyce had a
relationship with both killers.

Meanwhile, the man hunt for the murders is in its seventh day and the
search continues. Today police swarming this wooded area just miles from
the prison. Again, police dogs are out trying to pick up the inmates`
trail. More than 800 law enforcement personnel in the area looking for
Richard Matt and David Sweat. They`ve received more than 700 leads in the
case and are using helicopters, closing roads and telling residents to lock
their doors.

Joining me now from the search area is MSNBC`s Adam Reiss.

Adam, what are you hearing about the arrest?

ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Reverend. She was
cooperating. She didn`t have an attorney, but for some reason this evening
they decided to arrest her. She`ll be arraigned later, as you mentioned
earlier. There will be a 6:30 press conference. She`s been charged with
providing material assistance and promoting contraband. She allegedly was
assisting them by bringing in materials into the jail so they would have
those materials to help with their escape. She was also allegedly going to
be the getaway driver, but she apparently got cold feet.

These are charges. They`re both felonies. She could herself face
significant jail time, Reverend.

SHARPTON: They`ve been talking to her for days. Why did they decide now
to arrest her? And why did it take so long if in fact she had violated the
law and now being charged with felonies?

REISS: There`s no indication of why now. It`s possible they got all the
information they need. They don`t think that she has any more information.
There`s really no telling why this evening they made the arrest. But I can
tell you if we turn to the search, Reverend, they have tightened that
perimeter. It`s a five-mile perimeter as you can see behind me. The
weather is awful. It`s been this way all week, constant rain. They`re
doing what`s called a containment area and a saturation.

Eight hundred officers from all different agencies, federal, state and
local going grid by grid, foot by foot looking through some very difficult
brush, some rough terrain, very woodsy area. Some of these officials on
the search have told us they can`t see ten feet in front of them.

Now, we met with DHS officials today. They`re part of the search and
rescue team, they`re part of the border patrol keeping an eye on the
Canadian border. If these guys go up north about 20 miles, this is what
they had to say about the search and the terrain.

SHARPTON: Now, can you tell us anything about what we`re being told that
she had a relationship with both killers?

REISS: We`re told that they were grooming her. We`re not sure exactly
what the relationship was with Mr. Matt or Mr. Sweat, but that they were
doing what`s called grooming where inmates who are experienced at this can
befriend an employee of the prison.

Now, she was a civilian employee as opposed to a guard who might have more
training in dealing with this type of grooming. They befriended her. She
apparently felt that maybe one or both of them were in love with her. And
that`s why she allegedly was willing to assist them in their escape.

SHARPTON: Adam Reiss, thank you for your reporting tonight.

Let`s bring in Jim Cavanaugh, retired ATF special agent in-charge and
Sheila Isenberg. She`s the author of the book "women who love men who
kill," which is now available as an e-book. Thank you both for being here.

JIM CAVANAUGH, MSNBC LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Thanks, Rev.

SHEILA ISENBERG, AUTHOR, WOMEN WHO LOVE MEN WHO KILL: My pleasure.

SHARPTON: Jim, day seven now, the search is close to the prison. Are they
closing in?

CAVANAUGH: Well, you know, it`s really hard to say. If they`re out there
on foot in the mountains, Rev., the rain at the moment is favoring the two
escaped killers. Visibility is down they can move in the rain, they might
slip that cordon. But don`t think if they are in there, they couldn`t slip
it.

You know, I was on the case just like this. We have 400 law enforcement
officers surrounding a small mountainous area in Alabama after a cop
killer. We didn`t believe he could get out of that cordon, but he did slip
through on foot and he carjack somebody.

So don`t think they couldn`t get through there, you know, right in the
(INAUDIBLE) light in dust, these guys could move in the rain. They might
get out there. By the same token, they might be trapped in there. So
let`s hope they are. But it`s - right at the moment, the rain, if they`re
in there, if they`re in there, it`s favoring them.

SHARPTON: Now, Sheila, we learned today that the woman who was just
arrested, Joyce Mitchell, had a relationship with both Matt and Sweat.
Here`s NBC`s Stephanie Gosk on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE GOSK, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: She thought it was love, say
sources familiar with the investigation, about the relationship between
convicted killer Richard Matt and prison worker Joyce Mitchell. But
according to "the Wall Street Journal," prison officials suspected Mitchell
also had a relationship with David Sweat.

An investigation conducted in the last 12 months didn`t find enough
evidence to discipline Mitchell. But the paper reports that Sweat was
moved out of her tailor shop. A former guard at Clinton correctional told
NBC News that some prisoners would target, quote, "the weakest workers."
The inmates even have a name for it -- grooming.

TED CONOVER, FORMER PRISON GUARD: Prisoners are masters of manipulation.
They`re trying to establish a little ounce of flirtation because of the
power differential, they have everything to gain, she has everything to
lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Sheila, how unusual is it for someone to be involved and have a
relationship with two killers that are incarcerated?

ISENBERG: Well, you got me. In all the research I did for women who --

SHARPTON: I think we are losing -- well, Jim, let me ask you, have you
heard anything in your distinguished career that has been extensive, have
you heard anything like this or as usual as it sounds to me?

CAVANAUGH: It`s unusual. I think, that two inmates grooming the one
female employee of the prison and she`s not a corrections officer, and you
made that clear and the reporter on the scene did as well.

But they do -- I think the point that you would get to with your guest
there is, look, these two guys had a plan, Rev., and their plan was to
escape. And they were using Joyce to get further that plan. She might
have brought them in there hacksaw blades, drill bits, titanium tipped
drill bits, cash. She was always a target of their ultimate goal, which
was to get out. So they tag teamed her. They went after her, each
supporting the other. You know, these guys do little things.

You know, I started out working in the jail when I was a young deputy
sheriff. I watched jail manipulation, you know. I watched people. They
have nothing but time on their hands. They`re always trying to get an
extra pack of cigarettes, more time in the yard, a little extra food.
Everybody wants that. More time on visitation.

But you know the officers, they`re sort of used to that. And they can deal
with it. So they can give a guy a little something, but they`re not going
to compromise themselves. She`s a civilian employee, and they worked her
together, they tag teamed her. Listen, if she picked them up, they might
have rode a while and they could very easily have just killed her and
dumped her body and took the car. That`s how vicious sweat and Matt are.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you about the interrogation. Seven days they
were interviewing her. We know for the last several days. Give me a sense
of what they would have been asking her, what were they trying to get out
of her before they ultimately arrested her today?

CAVANAUGH: They wanted to have the confidence -- that`s a great question,
but they wanted to have the confidence that everything she had to offer to
the state police detectives. Everything she had to offer. They probably
were gentle with her because she would be in the cooperative mood given
that she had cold feet and went to the hospital that morning. So they are
trying to get out of her. Remember, tell us the truth, how did this begin,
over and over again. Of course, she`s in quote "in criminalizing" herself
when she makes these statements. She is making these statements that`s
incriminating herself. But you know, there`s going to be these charges
like we`re seeing today which is facilitating a crime. And you can break
those down in the simplest vein, Reverend Al. But for the help from her,
these two guys would still be locked up. And of course, the sad part is
what`s still going to happen, who is still going to get hurt as a result of
this criminal activity?

SHARPTON: How confident do you think the investigators are now about the
location?

CAVANAUGH: Yes, it`s hard to say. I think the most important thing they
talked about was they thought they had a place where they were bedded down,
and then they put the dog on it and they were in the woods. That can be
significant. Bloodhounds and track dogs if they stay on foot in a rural
area, it can be very good. But rain can hamper that, too. And you know,
it`s hard to say. It`s 50-50 whether they`re there or not at this point.

SHARPTON: How long could they hide out in the woods like this?

CAVANAUGH: Well, if they can`t get much food, not too long. And if they
don`t have any guns, if the police get around them, they`re going to have
to surrender. And these kinds of ex-cons who have done a lot of time, if
they don`t have firearms and the police get around them, they`ll probably
be apprehended without an incident. If they have guns, that`s a whole
different story. If they can get in a car with a knife at somebody`s
throat, that`s a whole different story. If they can get in a house, kill a
family, take their car, take their guns, that`s a whole different story.

SHARPTON: Jim Cavanaugh, thank you for your time this evening.

Again, we`re expecting a police news conference within the hour. We`ll
bring it to you live.

Ahead, the civil rights official accused of misrepresenting herself as
African-American. We`ll look at what`s really important in this
controversy.

Plus, progressive push. Hillary Clinton`s first big campaign rally. Can
she energize the Obama coalition?

Also, why GOP candidates may be learning the wrong lessons from Mitt
Romney.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Hillary Clinton holds her first major 2016 rally tomorrow. One
of the key issues, can she rally the Obama coalition? It`s a big question.
It`s a big moment and it`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Tomorrow here in New York Hillary Clinton will hold her first
big campaign rally. It`s a key moment and it will go a long ways toward
answering a critical question. Can she energize the Obama coalition?
Young people, progressives, Hispanics, African-Americans and foreign
working class people. Clinton has been targeting those groups since she
began her campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will fight for
comprehensive immigration reform and a path to citizenship.

I believe we should go even further to strengthen voting rights in America.

There`s something wrong when CEOs make 300 times more than the typical
worker.

We should pass the paycheck fairness act.

We have to make college affordable again. It was affordable back when I
went to college back in the day.

We also have to be honest about the gaps that exist across our country, the
inequality that stalks our streets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The challenge is that she is looking at a party a little
different than it was when her husband was president. She`s got to get the
Obama coalition. So she has to go after young voters and Hispanic voters
and African-American voter. Can she pull the liberal coalition together?

She must involve herself, if you look at the polls among the voters of
favorable impressions are 68 percent, presidents is 71 percent. When you
break it down, you see that positive views among Latinos. She has 58
percent, the president 55 percent. She has a little edge there. But when
you go to African-Americans, she`s at 80 percent favorable, he`s at 90
percent. She is going to have to figure out how to not only do well in
these areas but bring them out.

The other problem she has is leading progressives senator Elizabeth Warren
and New York City mayor Bill de Blasio and others have not endorsed her
yet. And how does she get them on boar board, when and how important will
they be to turning out that progressive base. So it`s a big kickoff
tomorrow, but there are big questions loom.

Joining me now to talk about some of that are Victoria Defrancesco Soto and
Clarence Page. Thank you both for being here.

CLARENCE PAGE, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Thank you, Reverend.

VICTORIA DEFRANCESCO SOTO: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Clarence, how important it is for Clinton to energize the Obama
coalition?

PAGE: Well, you just touched the on it there, Reverend. She does have the
support of a majority of blacks, Hispanics, the Obama coalition, if you
will, but she doesn`t have intensity in that support. She`s got to bring
those voters out and vote or else their votes don`t count. And so, that
means she`s got to get them excited about her candidacy. And that`s why I
think you`re going to see her talking tomorrow about why you ought to vote
for me, Hillary Clinton. That`s something she has not talked about before.

SHARPTON: You know, Victoria, "The New York Times" wrote about Hillary
Clinton`s strategy saying, quote, "if she won, it would suggest that the
so-called Obama coalition of young non-white and female voters is
transferable to another Democrat." What do you think of that?

SOTO: I do. I think that we`re in a very different era right now than we
were with the era of Bill Clinton. We`re in a much more polarized country,
both culturally we`re more polarized politically but also institutionally
because of all the gerrymandering that`s been happening especially in 2010.
But there is one caveat, Reverend, that I think it is going to depend
heavily on who the Republican presidential nominee is. Because if Hillary
Clinton is up against Mike Huckabee, for example, or a Ted Cruz, then I
think in that case, Hillary Clinton is not going to stick with the Obama
coalition. And she`s also going to try to bring in white moderates and
bring in more of that middle ground.

However, if we see a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, a more moderate Republican
candidate, then I do see the path to the presidency for Hillary Clinton
being one that rides heavily on Latinos, African-Americans, young folks and
lower SCS people.

SHARPTON: And turnouts, Clarence, and she`s got to energize them
particularly during the primaries even though she may not appear to have a
formidable candidate. She`s put out a video given the image of her as a
fighter. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Everyday Americans and their families need a champion, a champion
who will fight for them every single day. And I want to be that champion.
I want to get up every single day going to work for you, standing up for
you and I think by now people know I don`t quit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I don`t play. She`s giving a much more aggressive kind of
profile is that because of the two or three -- I guess now three that are
running and challenging her. They`re more progressive in terms of their
politics and their style?

PAGE: Yes. And I think she also can`t make up her mind just yet as to if
she`s a progressive or (INAUDIBLE) which is what she`s been up until now.
And for example, this trade bill that a (INAUDIBLE) has lost the vote on
that to Republicans. He was allied with Republicans on that and against
Democrats including Nancy Pelosi, where does Hillary Clinton stand on that?
She has yet to tell us. Is she fighting for us or not? It`s one thing the
to say you`re going to fight for us, but what positions will you take to
actually do it in?

SHARPTON: Hillary Clinton has been pushing a progressive agenda, she would
argue, Victoria, that`s pretty popular, frankly. Fifty one percent support
more government action on equal pay for women, 68 percent support raising
taxes on millionaires, 71 percent support raising the minimum wage, 72
percent support a legal status for immigrants. So the popularity of some
of her positions are clear. What does she have to do to prove her
authenticity and that she really is about this and not just spouting these
positions?

SOTO: Well, Reverend, she has to go out there and start talking more about
the substance of these issues, not just saying, hey, I`m for you, I`m a
fighter, but talking specifics. She did a little bit of that when she was
in Nevada a couple weeks ago talking about immigration reform and all of
the different steps that she wants to take. So I think that`s one part of
the plan.

The second part is she needs to get Elizabeth Warren, de Blasio, all of
these folks who are the face of the progressive movement of the Democratic
Party to come over and start supporting her. She`s been courting this
faction, but they still haven`t really warmed to her. So, she`s also just
going to need that. And she is also just going to need a campaign that
pumps people up.

President Obama did a very good job of it. He was cool, he was fun, he got
people excited. And Hillary Clinton is going to need that same energy
coupled with the substance of policy and some good progressive friends.

SHARPTON: Clarence, she needs to establish her real authenticity.
Victoria says bring some of the faces out, but does the fact she didn`t
take a stand on the trade bill, does the fact she didn`t go into Baltimore
or Ferguson, I mean, does the fact she has not dramatically taken a risk
hurt her? What can she say? What do you expect her to do tomorrow?

PAGE: Well, tomorrow I expect her to do two things. One is to answer that
question why you should vote for me being that she is going to get out
there and fight for us. That`s her theme. The other is to change the
narrative, to shift her narrative over to her mother and the very sad
stories that she lived through growing up and how that affected Hillary
Clinton, made her care more about child and family issues as she was her
mother is gone now, but she wants to help the young people who are still
here. It`s a very poignant story. It will be very interesting to see how
well she does in delivering this message. But that`s going to be the big
thing.

SHARPTON: Victoria Defrancesco Soto, Clarence Page, thank you for your
time. Have a good weekend.

PAGE: Thank you. You too, Reverend.

SOTO: Thank you.

SHARPTON: When we come back, we go inside the GOP retreat with Mitt
Romney. What are the candidates saying today?

Also a powerful banker says Elizabeth Warren doesn`t understand the global
banking system. Warren had a few things to say about that.

And the story trending worldwide, a civil rights leader accused of
misrepresenting herself as African-American. I`ll talk about what`s
important in this case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Senator Elizabeth Warren is on a mission to hold Wall Street
accountable. While Wall Street is on a mission to try to cut her down to
size.

The CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, was questioning her knowledge
saying, quote, "I don`t know if she fully understands the global banking
system." That`s quite a statement given that warren is a U.S. senator that
helped create the consumer financial protection bureau and was a Harvard
law professor. Here`s her response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The problem is not that I don`t
understand the global banking system. The problem for these guys is that I
fully understand the system and I understand how they make their money, and
that`s what they don`t like about me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Yes! I think she understands plenty. For example, she
understands JPMorgan Chase took $25 billion from the government bailout
after the financial crisis and the financial crash. She understands the
bank has been fined $20 billion by the government for breaking the law.
She also understands the bank was taking $14 billion a year in government
subsidies up until at least 2012. That`s corporate welfare. She
understands all of this. And she wants to do something to change it. And
that`s why Wall Street is so scared of her.

Did Mr. Dimon think she didn`t know his bankrupt logic? Nice try, but
understand this, she got you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: It`s a big weekend for Republicans who want to be president.
Six contenders are at a retreat hosted by Mitt Romney, and they`ve had to
make some tough decisions. Here`s what`s on the actual agenda for the
summit. You can play in a flag football game with Marco Rubio, but at the
same time you can go for an early hike with Mitt. How will they choose?
How will they decide between skeet shooting with Senator Lindsey Graham or
a scenic hot balloon ride with a special republican guest? You can`t do
both. These are the kinds of tough choices that will prepare them for the
oval office?

Now, look, they have a right to have some fun like everybody else, but does
this retreat send the right message? These guys are supposed to be looking
for real solutions on issues like inequality and immigration. Will hanging
out with Mitt Romney really help them do that?

Joining me now is MSNBC contributor Maria Teresa Kumar and Ryan Grim of
"The Huffington Post." Thank you both for being here.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, Reverend.

RYAN GRIM, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Maria, this weekend is all about fund-raising and networking for
Republicans, but does it strike the wrong tone?

KUMAR: Well, I think the only tone that it strikes is that you`re
basically ponying up to the individual that lost historically in the last
election, that was Mitt Romney. I think if anything you want to pony up to
him and find out what he did do so that you don`t do it in the 2016
election.

SHARPTON: Ryan, you know, NBC`s Kasie Hunt is at the Romney retreat and
she reported that Rubio told a room of donors, quote, "We need a safety
net, free enterprise does not work without a safety net. But it must not
become a lifestyle." The safety net shouldn`t become a lifestyle. Doesn`t
that sound a little like the 47 percent comment?

GRIM: No, it veers into that territory in the sense that it suggests, as a
lot of Republicans do, that people genuinely want to be on this type of
assistance. And it means they`ve never been on that assistance themselves
or they don`t know people who are because, you know, that`s not what people
want. People love to be able to fend for themselves and to make their own
way and to live a life of genuine dignity. You know, we ought to be
helping everybody that needs it, but that`s not to say that people are out
there asking for a handout. And so, you know, to the extent that it veers
in that direction, it does, you know, reflect a lot of the same
misunderstanding that led to the 47 percent comment.

SHARPTON: Talking about comments, Maria, one of the worst lines of
Romney`s presidential campaign came when he was asked about immigration.
Let me refresh everyone`s memory. Listen to this.

KUMAR: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: So if you don`t deport them, how do you send them home?

FMR. GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), 2012 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, the answer is
self-deportation, which is people decide that they could do better by going
home because they can`t find work here, because they don`t have legal
documentation to allow them to work here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now, today a reporter for the "Salt Lake City Tribune" says
Senator Lindsey Graham said, quote, "Now I love Mitt, but that was his big
mistake." And, quote, "no one is going to vote for a party that is going
to break up their family and deport their mother." Now Lindsey Graham`s
saying this, but has the rest of the party figured this out, Maria?

KUMAR: I don`t think so. I think in rhetoric, if you remember when they
actually did the RNC, they did an autopsy, they realized that they had
welcomed families in homes and recognizing that immigration was a big
priorities for Latinos. And this is after the disastrous campaign of Mitt
Romney. But what`s interesting is what Lindsey Graham understands is the
only road to the White House is through the Latino community. And so, by
promoting policies that are warm and that are actually welcoming and try to
fix the solution, they get that step closer. What`s interesting to me
though is the fact that Lindsey Graham is espousing the legislation that he
helped pass with the gang of six that he co-authored with Marco Rubio, yet
Marco Rubio is not espousing that.

And so, I think that`s where the tension`s going to be. And what you saw
with the Marco Rubio comment as well though is that the Republicans
realized that Americans regardless of race and socioeconomic status realize
that there`s increased inequality in our country. So, what he was trying
to do is he`s trying to thread the needle of saying, we do need some social
safety net but at the same time for those individuals that think that the
government should be any part of that, he`s trying to say, but it should be
a lifestyle. So, he`s trying to eat his cake and have it too. And you
can`t do that.

SHARPTON: You know, Ryan, Romney says he won`t endorse anybody for 2016.
He did talk about a couple of candidates last night, though. Listen to
this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I think Jeb Bush is in a very strong position. He`s a very
capable person. He`s been an excellent governor. Marco Rubio is a very
capable guy, was a very effective speaker of the house in Florida,
accomplished a lot of things there and has been a very effective United
States senator. He`s also, like Jeb Bush, a very serious contender here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Ryan, praising Rubio, praising Jeb Bush, does that help or hurt
them, too, with the GOP base?

GRIM: That`s a good question. You know, Mitt Romney was never, you know,
warmly embraced by the GOP base. Even after declaring himself to be a,
quote-unquote, "severe conservative." You know, I think he`s talking maybe
a little bit more to big donors at that point. That is the Romney base.
And you know, so to the extent that he`s praising both of them, that
probably works to Rubio`s advantage because Jeb Bush, you know, had been
considered the front-runner when it came to the, you know, the big money
that Mitt Romney knows so well. So to put them both in the same sentence
gives a boost to Rubio in the money chase there.

SHARPTON: But wouldn`t you think that he would be smart enough, Maria, to
know he`s sending that signal to put Rubio on an equal basis with Jeb Bush,
is that intentional or is that just Romney again saying things that were
not well thought out?

KUMAR: Well, let`s see who is actually right now at his event, right?
It`s Marco Rubio while Jeb is off in Europe. So I think it`s by design.
Who is doing the flag football? It`s Marco Rubio. I think it might be by
design feeling that they`re actually trying to create more of -- I think
there`s a lot of folks in the leadership that might not be espousing
necessarily Jeb Bush. He`s had a lot of slippery steps and the official
campaign hasn`t even started. So, I think people are looking for a good
number, too, and Marco Rubio seems to be that person that can actually
bring out the Tea Party but also do a lot of mainstream politicking.

SHARPTON: Maria Teresa Kumar and Ryan Grim, thank you for your time. Both
of you have a good weekend.

KUMAR: Thank you, Reverend. You too.

GRIM: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Ahead, it may be the next big thing in the GOP, Obamacare
truthers. They think the law`s not work. We have a reality check. Also
the activist accused of misrepresenting her race. I`ll talk about what`s
really important.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Sometimes my friends on the right have a little trouble with
reality. A little problem with facts. It`s like I always say, you`re
entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Remember the
birthers? They didn`t believe the President was born here. Then came the
pollers. They said the polls were screwed toward President Obama. And now
we have a new one. This time about ObamaCare. Take it away, Congressman
Palmer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I do read a lot, and I`m sure readers and viewers do as
well that more people are covered now, that more people can afford to have
health care.

REP. GARY PALMER (R), ALABAMA: I`m not sure that`s true. That more people
are covered. The numbers that I`ve heard, now, unless this has changed in
last few months, that there are just about as many people uninsured now as
before ObamaCare came into be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Just about the same amount of people? Well, the fact is,
Congressman, we went from 17.1 down to 11.9 percent of people that were
uninsured. This is a fact. That is a drop of 5.2 percent. 5.2 percent
drop in uninsured people since ObamaCare began. If you need actual
numbers, Congressman, I thought you`d never ask. 10.2 million people. So
we can have opinions, but these are the facts. 10.2 million people now are
insured that were not insured before ObamaCare came into effect. You`re
saying you don`t think the number has changed.

Let me bring in Dana Milbank. Dana, again, I think that it is the
beginning of another denial movement like the birthers. We can`t argue
numbers. You`re talking about millions of actual people.

DANA MILBANK, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, Reverend. It`s not like 10
million is some sort of a rounding error or something here. It is unusual
because you had not heard people disputing that. They`d say all kinds of
things about costs of the program, but to actually say that it hasn`t done
what nobody had previously denied it had done, now we`re in different
territories here. And I think overall you`re finding that we`re in this
sort of this silly season right now as everybody is waiting for the Supreme
Court to make its ruling to decide what -- after that to decide what`s
going to happen if the Supreme Court strikes down --

SHARPTON: Yes. I want to ask you about that because you just wrote about
the Supreme Court ruling that could take away health care subsidies for
millions of people, in fact. And you said, quote, "If the Supreme Court
doesn`t validate key parts of ObamaCare, it seems highly unlikely that this
fiercely divided Congress will have the capacity to come up with anything
to replace the health care law." The alternative to ObamaCare is nothing.
Nothing, Dana?

MILBANK: Well, look, there`s no way to have any idea what this Congress is
going to do on any given subject, as we saw with today`s trade votes. So
you can`t know for certain. There are some responsible republicans who
would say, all right, well, at least let`s extend these subsidies so we
don`t have this short-term chaos. But the hard liners probably aren`t
going to allow that. And so basically we`re stuck in this position where,
of course, the President`s not going to sign any law that basically gets
rid of all the rest of ObamaCare as the Republicans would propose to do.
And the Republicans are not going to go along with anything other than all-
out repeal. So you have the potential at the end of this month to have
chaos, then you actually will have millions of people thrown off of their
insurance, then maybe that poor congressman actually may be right in
retrospect once the Supreme Court kicks everybody off of ObamaCare.

SHARPTON: Well, and then we have a new threat because Senator Ted Cruz has
come on these issues saying, quote, "if the court invalidates coverage,"
I`m quoting, "you invalidates coverage for millions and now receiving
health subsidies, Cruz says he wants legislation that would let states opt
out of ObamaCare altogether." I mean, this was written in "The Washington
Post." This is a whole new threat.

MILBANK: Right. And this is why, even if you have leadership in the
Senate or in the House saying, all right, let`s try not to have a
catastrophe here. And let`s try to smooth things over, it means the hard
line won`t necessarily go along with it. Now, Ted Cruz may have overstate
as welcome a little bit. He`s sort of ran his party off a cliff twice with
this the shutdown and then the attempted shutdown of the Department of
Homeland Security. It`s not exactly clear they will go along with him
again. But there are a lot of people who are going to say that this is
their opportunity to do what they`ve tried to do dozens and dozens of times
and that is actually repeal ObamaCare. So you can see this particularly as
the election season approaches becoming just an all-out food fight.

SHARPTON: But what really bothers me is the moral part. We`re talking
about people`s lives here. We`re talking about people`s actual lives.
Last night "Extra" TV correspondent Jerry Penacoli was on the show after he
interviewed the President, he was on this show with me. And they talked
about the critics. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I get ten letters a night out of
the 40,000 letters and e-mails and messages that we get. Some of them are,
you know, just saying thank you for something. Some of them are saying
you`re an idiot. Some of them are just talking --

JERRY PENACOLI, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: Do you answer the ones that call
you an idiot?

OBAMA: I do.

PENACOLI: Oh, you did?

OBAMA: Yes.

PENACOLI: Are they surprised?

OBAMA: I think sometimes they are.

PENACOLI: After they`ve called you an idiot that they`ve gotten a
response.

OBAMA: Yes. You know, I try to address their concerns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: It doesn`t seem like he`s bothered too much by these critics.

MILBANK: You can`t have a thin-skinned in the business that he`s in,
Reverend. I think he`s well used to people calling him all kinds of names.
As he pointed out in his speech this week, the thing that actually matters
is he has reduced by a third or so the number of people who are out there
without health insurance. And, you know, say what you want, that is a
major achievement.

SHARPTON: Dana Milbank, thank you for your time tonight. Have a nice
weekend.

MILBANK: You too, thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, take me out to the ball game! President Obama
attends the congressional baseball game and it makes a little time to hang
out with the other presidents. The photo that`s going viral.

And this week a star is born. How this six-year-old stole the show with a
little respect. My report card next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: It`s time now for Reverend Al`s Weekly Report Card.

SHARPTON: Let`s get right to it. Take me out to the ball game. President
Obama making a surprise appearance at the Annual Congressional Baseball
Game for charity last night. But he wasn`t the only president there. He
stopped the motorcade to join the famous racing presidents, Taft,
Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt and George Washington. What a great photo.
The President tweeting, I challenge them to a race. I give them a GL for
good luck in the new presidential race. Now to an unfortunate reporter who
was trying to do a job but who was interrupted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sporting activities start -- okay, I`ve got to stop.
Okay. Nope. Not doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: But I`ve got to give her credit. She powered through it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Events will continue for the rest of the week here
for Riley with sporting events. At Fort Riley, Katya Leick, KSNT News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I give her a B-plus for battling bugs. Plus, doing her job at
the same time.

And it was a week a star was born. Six-year-old Johanna steals the show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(KIDS PERFORMING)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Woo-hoo! Johan!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: And she really brought it home for the finale.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

This girl doesn`t get one letter grade but seven letters, r-e-s-p-e-c-t.
Thanks to all my students tonight. Class dismissed.

ANNOUNCER: That`s tonight`s edition of Reverend Al`s weekly report card.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Finally tonight a few words about the controversy surrounding an
NAACP leader out of Washington. Rachel Dolezal is president of the group`s
chapter in Spokane. Her parents shocked a lot of people when they came
forward to say she`s been misrepresenting herself as black for years.
Dolezal says the question of her race is not as easy as it seems. But she
ended a local interview when asked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you African-American?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t understand the question of -- I did tell you
that, yes, that`s my dad, and he was unable to come in January.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are your parents, are they white?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Today the NAACP put out a statement saying, quote, "Rachel
Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family, and we respect her
privacy in this matter. One`s racial identity is not a qualifying criteria
or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership." I think you should always
be truthful about who you are, and I understand that people may be angry if
she lied about that, but I also think everyone should remember that
there`s a long history of integrated activism in the civil rights movement.
We saw this at the march on Washington, on the freedom rides, on the road
from Selma to Montgomery. We also saw people who lost their lives in the
struggle, like Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner and Viola Louiso (ph).

In fact, earlier this year, I was honored to give a social justice award to
Viola Louiso`s daughter Mary. So while transparency and honesty should
always be looked for, let us not be confused. It was always blacks and
whites that fought together. So her race is not a determining factor. Her
honesty should be the only thing that we discuss.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. Have a great weekend. "HARDBALL"
starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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