The Ed Show for Friday, June 12th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Friday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: June 12, 2015
Guest: Peter DeFazio, Lori Wallach, Hilary Golston, Nina Turner, Caroline
Heldman, Michael Steele, Dean Obeidallah
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. Welcome to the Ed Show live
from Washington, D.C. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
Let`s get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, the final push.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am disappointed TAA did not pass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama might get one more shot ahead of Tuesday to try
and push this through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, the president has some work yet to do with his
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, day seven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two killers still on the loose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe we will catch these guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later, ready for launch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary Clinton getting ready for a big campaign,
pickup which (ph) tomorrow in New York City
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Every day Americans and
their families need a champion. A champion who will fight for them every
single day and I want to be that champion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And controversy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A prominent NAACP leader accused of lying about being
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you African-American.
RACHEL DOLEZAL, NAACP LEADER: I don`t understand the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: The votes are in. President Obama did not get the trade package he
desperate wanted today. Three critical votes took place today. Trade
adjustment assistance, trade promotion authority and trade enforcement and
customs, which includes provision on immigration and climate.
Negotiating power for the Trans-Pacific Partnership hinges on Fast-Track
authority and the separate Trade Adjustment Assistant bill. The measures
are tied together, Congress voted to defying Obama`s trade authority. In a
surprise move Minority Leader Pelosi told the floor she would vote down TAA
to stop Fast-Track.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) CALIFORNIA: While I`m a big supporter of TAA, if
TAA slows down the Fast-Track, I`m prepared to vote against TAA because
then its defeat sad to say, is the only way that we will be able to slow
down the Fast-Track.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: TAA went down with 302 votes. Both bills were necessary for the
President`s trade package to advance. The White House went all out to
whole (ph) Democrats this week, including Pelosi. The President made a
surprise visit to the annual Congressional ball game with beer for the
winning team. The President typically criticized for ducking out or
schmoozing opportunities with members of Congress shook hands and post for
pictures in both dugouts.
Moments before the critical trade vote President Obama unexpectedly joined
a house Democrat meeting to drum up last minute support. Congressman Peter
DeFazio called the maneuver insulting.
REP. PETER DEFAZIO, (D) OREGON: The president tried to both guilt people
and then impugn their integrity. I don`t think it was a very effective
tactic. There are a number of us insulted by the approach. He said you`re
not playing it straight if you use the only tool you have to stop TPA.
Didn`t got the votes for TPA. I`ve been here before. I`ve seen this
scene. Once you get TPA, the whole deal is a done deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Trade adjustment assistance provides support to workers who lost
their jobs as a result of trade deal. The bill was pushed forward to
entice Democrats receiving pressure from labor groups. The effort
backfired. Typically Democrats would be in favor, but opponents of the
larger trade bill saw it`s an opportunity to derail the whole deal. House
Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy had tied TAA to TPA, if TAA failed so the
He proceed with the vote any way. Trade promotion authority passed by a
sliver but doesn`t move without TAA. The house won`t reconsider the
critical trade promotion assistance until at least Monday evening.
Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Will Democrats hold the line against the TPP?"
Go to polls.msnbc.com/ed to cast you vote. I`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.
Joining me now is Congressman Peter DeFazio of Oregon. We heard from him
earlier in the show. Congressman The House could consider TAA on Monday.
Could President Obama get enough Democrats to move on this vote during the
weekend, more beer parties or outings or picnics or something?
DEFAZIO: Look, after you`ve neglected the House for seven years, sort of a
last minute dating approach isn`t particularly effective. So, no and it`s
pretty hard for people to explain why they changed their position between a
Friday and a Monday. But we don`t know what kind of legislative
legerdemain the Republicans will come up. But remember we took this bill
up under rules that were adopted at 11:30 at night unanimous consent.
That`s never happen in the 28 years I`ve been in Congress and the
President`s talking about being straight with us. They used every trick
they had to try and jam this thing through, get us to give up our
constitutional authority to actually meaningfully participate in the trade
negotiation and meaningfully amend it, if it`s bad which is now.
They used every trick they had and that he said because we used trade
adjustment assistance to slow him down. We`re guilty. They`re guilt
because they didn`t listen to us. They didn`t work with us. 85 percent of
the Democratic caucus is opposed to the currently written trade package.
DYSON: Yeah, would that LL was not cool Legislative Legerdemain as you
say. But maybe some speed dating on his part might assist. So, what are
you hearing from your colleagues after the vote?
DEFAZIO: Well, there was, you know, people were happy that we had managed
to slow this down. I mean the way they set it up is the whole package goes
forward or nothing goes forward. How they`re going to resolve that, I
don`t know. One way the most, best way would be for the President to
actually begin to listen to the Democrats who have been proposing ways to
fix this agreement and ways to make Congress be meaningfully involved in
trade promotion authority. But he`s basically -- his people have totally
blown off the Democrats except well they cut the deal with on the Senate
side with Senator Wyden. But on the House side they blew off all the
Democrats on that committee and worked with the Republicans for this
DYSON: So, Josh Earnest says the current trade adjustment assistance
expires in September. Is that a new deadline? Is that something new
that`s been introduced Senator DeFazio.
DEFAZIO: I thought it was the end of the year and not the end of the
fiscal year, but I`m not sure. But if the president says to the
Republicans and corporate America who desperately wants this deal. If he
says to them "My price is a really robust Trade Adjustment Assistance two
or three times, what was offered today without cuts to medicare which was
also part of that and a couple other changes to this agreement so we get
meaningful labor standards, currency manipulation, a couple other things it
That still could be a much better trade agreement. But if the President
wants to side with the Republicans and corporate America and not improve
this then we`re going to do everything we can to derail it.
DYSON: Do you think Nancy Pelosi holding the line is extremely important?
DEFAZIO: I think that was very important to have our leader hold the line.
We thought that was going to be a much closer vote. And then if you saw it
progress. I mean, first she kind of broke the dam a little bit there and
secondly as the vote moved on, you know, they did not pick up. And then
they lost a lot of Republicans.
DYSON: All right. Representative DeFazio. Thanks for your time tonight.
DEFAZIO: Thank you.
DYSON: Now I want to bring in Lori Wallach Director of Public Citizens
Global Trade Watch. I`m going to ask you about your action plan that now
the TAA has failed. But I got to say are you celebrating? Because
yesterday on the show you were indicating to us some of the profound
complications and problems with this deal, you have to be feeling good now.
LORI WALLACH, PUBLIC CITIZENS GLOBAL TRADE WATCH: Well, the good news is
despite there being a two-year effort by a huge corporate coalition, the
President of the United States and the Republican leadership, most
unusually the allegedly unstoppable momentum of that coalition actually hit
the immovable object called grassroots democracy. And it`s one of those
rare occasions where Democrats, Republicans, Tea Party, folk`s progressives
across the country have really done living democracy. They have hounded
their members of Congress.
The House of Representative setting up in every two years. It really made
that difference. So, you had enough members who one way or the other
because there`s a big block of Republicans who voted no too.
WALLACH: They got within an inch of taking down the whole bill and they
took down the half of it that basically derailed it going forward. So, it
was a good moment. We still got some more work to do.
DYSON: So, do you think you`ll be able to trade -- you kill the entire
bill. I mean, what would that hinge on?
WALLACH: SO, the kind of cynical gimmick is that the Trade Adjustment
Assistance is put in there to provide cover for the Democrats who would
otherwise not feel it`s safe politically or sensible to vote for the Fast-
Track which we`ll offshore more jobs.
WALLACH: So, basically they want the vote in advance for the burial
insurance of the workers that they`re going to lose their jobs and bury
their economic future. And because the Democrats said you can`t just
basically take us for granted and put this bait out here on the mouse trap.
That, you know, we sort of came up and went, hmm. We see that thing
coming. We`re backing and right out.
WALLACH: And the bait of the TAA wasn`t sufficient to get Democrats to
actually take the last few steps. But the ones who are willing, the
handful to vote for the Fast-Track won`t do it without the TAA.
WALLACH: So, it`s a total catch 22.
DYSON: Well, look Congressman DeFazio looked beat (ph) and a little bit,
you know, unnerved by the President`s gall you can say in coming there.
What do you make of his last ditch efforts to go to Congress for a man
who`s not been seen hell fellow well met Bill Clinton or George Bush like
slap on the back.
WALLACH: You know what I heard from a lot of members which is sad in way,
not so much personality wise. It`s more like where was he? Why wasn`t he
up here, when we were trying to pass new union rights? Why wasn`t he up
here when we were trying to raise minimum wage? Why wasn`t he up here
twisting arms and basically making this level of passionate personal
WALLACH: For something that was for the Democratic base? As compare to
and in this instance something that his entire Democratic caucus but also
labor, environmental, small business, family, farm, faith, LGBT, internet
freedom. You basically say what is the entire Democratic base, human
rights, civil rights, food safety, consumer together and that`s who is he
cross ways with.
DYSON: Right, so what do you make in by contrast Nancy Pelosi standing
firm and voting down the TAA?
WALLACH: So, what everyone needs to do this weekend starting with people
who`re in San Francisco is thank their Congress people. So they thank
Nancy Pelosi and you should thank -- if you care about making sure this is
a final undoing.
WALLACH: A Fast-Track in the TTP. First piece of business is to thank
Democrats and Republicans alike who did the right thing.
WALLACH: Because there really was an ugly scene there. I mean, it was
DYSON: Right. So, why is the president pushing this so hard? What
investment -- if your entire Democratic base, not just parts of it, but
mostly the entire Democratic base is against this and certain Republicans
have joined those Democrats. What does he gain from this? Yeah. So well,
there it is. Lori Wallach, thank you so much for your time tonight.
Remember to answer tonight`s question at polls.msnbc.com/ed. We`ll have
the results after the break.
Coming up, a Cleveland judge says a murder charge should be on table for
the officer who shot Tamir Rice. We`ll look at what it means for this
And later campaign season heats up. The Rapid Response Panel previous
Hillary Clinton`s big even this weekend and more.
DYSON: Here`s what we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight`s
question "Will Democrats hold the line against the TPP?"
Keep voting throughout the hour, because you will see 87 percent say "Yes".
13 percent, now 14 percent say "No", 87 yes, 13 percent say "No". It`s
still up in the air. You keep voting.
We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER MADISON, RICE FAMILY ATTORNEY: It represents a blueprint of what
being engage in your government can do for you. There`s transparency in
that process and it build trust. This judge has been a judge for 31 years.
He`s a public servant. And he as well as the people perceives an
injustice. It`s very interesting to see what the prosecutors will do who
are also public servants in honoring the people`s wishes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
That was the attorney for the family of Tamir Rice sharing his reaction to
towards he`s opinion by a Cleveland judge saying there`s probable causes
for charges including murder to be filed in the death of Tamir Rice. Now
the case sits in the hands of county prosecutors and will go to the grand
In the mean time community activist are calling for the arrest of the
officers involved. NBC`s Ron Allen has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON ALLEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This police surveillance video captured
the moment last November when Tamir Rice was shot and killed allegedly by
Officer Timothy Loehmann. Reponding to 911 call outside Rec Center. The
gun and the 12-year-old hand turn out to be a pellet gun. Today a
Cleveland judge found probable cause, Loehmann should face multiple charges
including murder and probably cause for accusation of negligent homicide
and dereliction of duty against Loehmann partner Officer Frank Garmback.
The court is still thunder struck but how quickly this event turned deadly.
Wrote said Ronald Adrine his opinion and response to activists who used an
obscure Ohio law to ask the judge to weigh in.
MADISON: We are asking for an arrest. That`s what the statute calls for.
ALLEN: The judge`s opinion is advisory. County prosecute say they will
present the case to a grand jury while aware that grand juries have not
charged police in some recent high profile shootings, Rice`s mother told us
months ago she was trying to be optimistic.
SAMARIA RICE, MOTHER OF TAMIR RICE: At the end of the day he was still a
kid, was still a kid 12-year-old kid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: As Mr. Allen indicated the judge`s opinion is solely advisory.
Only the prosecutor or grand jury can bring charges against the officers.
The attorneys for officer Loehmann said the judge`s order "Does not and
should not impact the investigation being conducted by the Cuyahoga county
sheriff`s department. We respect the authority of the Cuyahoga prosecutors
to review and investigate this case".
For more let`s bring in Hilary Golston Reporter for WKYC in Cleveland and
Nina Turner former Ohio State Senator. Ms. Golston, what`s the reaction
from the community following the judge`s ruling?
HILARY GOLSTON, WKYC REPORTER: Well, you know, there has been so much
community attention placed on this. I mean, people from all around the
world are paying attention to this case. And so, the first thing Michael I
would say is there are different parts of the community. I mean, you have
that Cleveland 8 as Tamir Rice`s family attorney has dubbed. And these
eight people who went with that citizen`s affidavit asking the judge
directly, "Hey, we want charges, we want arrests."
They were ecstatic when I talked to member who had come to the judge asking
for this. But, you know, what, the reality is they didn`t get what they
wanted. There were no charges issued. As you mentioned this now if you
will a political football was tossed to the prosecutor who has promised he
will then toss it along to a grand jury to decide if charges will be issued
in this case. So, these folks are very excited about it, but it didn`t
have the outcome they were looking for.
DYSON: Yes. So, Senator Turner, in light of what Hilary just indicated
the family`s attorney says "This is a blue print of what being engaged in
your government can do". But how much of effect do you think the community
had on this and will it create a kind of resentment in the prosecutor`s
office as he sends it to the grand jury, that ends up, you know, redounding
in a negative way on the case.
NINA TURNER, (D) FMR. OHIO STATE SENATOR: Well, doc. I will say that, you
know, the African-American community are not, we are not homogeneous. But
the folks that I have talk to have been very pleased by this action. I do
agree with the attorney in this that the Cleveland 8 brought pressure to
bear, they used the Ohio revise code to bring pressure to bear and judge
Adrine responded quickly. That is something that the community has not
gotten as of late when it comes to these types of cases not just here in
Cleveland but all across the country.
So, a stake has been, you know, poked in the sand if you will that is
basically saying that the Cleveland 8 and other community member who is are
concerned about this that they will use every legal means necessary to
continue to elevate this case and put it dead center where it is supposed
to be. So, I would say in that regard that Cleveland 8 did win.
DYSON: Right. So Hilary, is there a timeframe for when the grand jury
will hear the case and make a decision?
GOLSTON: Not at all. Not at all. I mean, that is something that, you
know, if I had a crystal ball, if I knew the answer to that question, I
think I`d be a very rich woman at this time. I mean, it`s absolutely
something that we do not know and as of.
DYSON: Do you have any sense of why it`s taking so long?
GOLSTON: And that`s a question that a lot of community leaders are asking.
I mean, that is exactly why this group of eight people went to the judge
looking to put sort of a little more attention on this. And it is just a
recommendation. It calls attention to what`s happening but in and of
itself doesn`t mean there will be any charges. You know, I think what`s
happening now is the community has another chance to rally around it. But,
I also think we have to take into account with the other side is saying
Now you have some really strong rhetoric Michael coming from the other
side. The police union president saying that these people have miserable
lives for calling attention this way. Because, you know, you still have to
go through the grand jury. This isn`t a process that can go around that
grand jury. So, you have on the other folk who is are saying, you know,
its grand standing and that`s all that it is. But the reality is it does
call attention to what`s happening. It does call attention to the fact
this happened back in November. So, if that`s what they were looking for
then they definitely accomplished that.
DYSON: So, Senator Turner today a federal judge approved an agreement
between the city of Cleveland and the department of justice that would
attempt to reform the police department, do you think that program is
enough to improve practices and relations in the city there so fraught and
that damming, scathing DOJ reports suggested a lot of work have to be done.
TURNER: But we have to believe it doc. I mean, if we don`t believe that
then we have nothing of the DOJ and the city of Cleveland, you know, with
Mayor Jackson came to this agreement. Judge Oliver signed off on that
agreement today and even and his remark said that this is the pathway to
start to restore the relationship between the community and the police.
As, you know, we definitely need that relationship. We need that bridge.
And so, this is the beginning of a pr process and not the end.
DYSON: All right.
TURNER: And not the end of a process. But we had got to keep on going
doc., because we cannot stop here. This is not just about front line
police officers. This is really an indictment on the entire system in this
country of justice or the injustice of a system. And so, we got to keep
pushing forward. So, yes doc. we have to believe that because without
this, we won`t be able to set a strong foundation to move forward for both
the community and the police.
DYSON: All right, Hilary Golsten and Senator Nina Turner. Thank you so
much for your time tonight.
TURNER: Thank you.
DYSON: Still ahead, Hillary Clinton faces growing competition as she kicks
her campaign into high gear.
And next, the latest from Upstate New York as the manhunt from two escaped
prisoners hit day 7.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. The manhunt is intensifying tonight
for the two escaped murders. From the Clinton Correctional Facility who
have been on the run for a week now. So far authorities have received more
than 700 leads in the investigation, but the men are still on the loose.
NBC`s Jay Gray has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY GRAY, NBC NEWS CORREPONDENT: The show of force is growing up in
Upstate New York. More than 800 officers and federal agents on the ground
now. Only three miles or so from the maximum security prison where almost
a week ago David Sweat and Richard Matt made their break.
CHIEF DESMOND RACICOT, PLATTSBURGH POLICE: We`re trapping (ph) at the bad.
We want to catch these guys, we want them back where they belong.
GRAY: Teams are using every available resource to work through 20 or 30
acres of rugged, heavily wooded terrain in the target area.
RACICOT: Everything is methodologically being searched with dogs.
Obviously you`ve seen helicopters. We have ATVs. We have these armored
GRAY: Every move coordinated in this homeland security command center.
JOHN PFEIFER, CLE CUSTOMS AND SEARCH PATROL: In saturation and containment
right now. That`s what the operation consists of with a quick response
capability if a sighting does occur.
GRAY: But so far the violent criminals have been out of sight and on the
run and the community on edge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) feeling nervous?
SAM TEDFORD, RESIDENT: I think they are getting a little antsy.
GREY: As the manhunt stretches into its seventh day here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: NBC`s Adam Reese joins me now from Morrisonville, New York. So
Adam, what`s the latest on the prison employee police have been questioning
in connection with the case, Joyce Mitchell?
ADAM REESE, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Michael, good evening. Joyce Mitchell we
expect to be arrested and arraigned tonight for aiding and abetting these
two guys in their escape. We believe that they met in the tailor shop and
befriended her. They so called groomed her or friend her making sure she
would assist in the escape. We believe that she was going to be the get
away car but she got cold feet.
Now we learned that she`s been going to be charged with bringing in
contrabands. And she herself may end up with significant jail time. Now,
let`s look at the search going on about three miles south of where we are.
It`s about five mile parameter. They`re tightening that parameter.
They`re going with 800 law enforcement officials. State, federal and local
grid by grid, inch by inch. Very difficult terrain that they going
through. They believe this area is the correct area because there`s been
no report of any stolen cars. So, they suspect they probably are still in
the area. This is the right place to look.
Now they`re also using helicopters and whether has been bad. But the
choppers are back up. DHS and the boarder patrol tell us if they have a
Black Hawk helicopter up there as well. We spoke to them earlier today.
They gave us an idea of what this terrain is like and what the search is
DYSON: So, what is law enforcement telling residents in the area they
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PFEIFER: Just southeast of Dannemora is heavily forested. It`s rocky.
It`s very difficult to traverse. So, that combined with humidity, rain,
you know, the geographical layout makes it vert difficult for a sustained
search. So we`re trying to keep our folks fresh. We don`t want them going
in there tired and having a possible encounter with these folks where
they`re not at their maximum capability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REESE: Now, this is called containment and saturation, they`ve contain the
area, they`ve move in. They saturated it with troops. They just hope the
weather will hold and the temperatures don`t drop too low tonight so they
continue the search through the evening. Michael.
DYSON: Adam Reese, thank you so very much for your report.
Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next. You`re watching the Ed
Show on MSNBC.
JOSH LIPTON, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Josh Lipton with your CNBC Market
Stocks sink on worries about Greece. The DOW falls 140 points. The S&P in
down 14. The NASDAQ sheds 31.
Wholesale prices rose by the most in two and a half years driven by the
rising cost of food and gasoline. The producer price index climbed half a
percent last month. Economist has expected a smaller increase. And
consumers are feeling pretty confident The University of Michigan sentiment
index came in stronger than expected. Thanks to optimism about wages.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business.
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
The 2016 presidential race is heating up along with the summer. Tomorrow
Hillary Clinton will be in New York City on Roosevelt Island to reintroduce
herself as a candidate all thanks to Jay-Z.
On Monday Republican Jeb Bush will make his official announcement at Miami
Dade College in Florida.
Meanwhile, Clinton`s Democratic rivals are talking about the issues she
hasn`t touched. Here`s Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: It is hard for me to understand how any
candidate, Hillary Clinton or anybody else, cannot have a position on what
is a major, major issue facing the American people. You`re for it or
against it, but you have to have a position.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Clinton candidacy is not in the bag. MSNBC Steve Kornacki has more
on what she may be up against.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Hi, hi everybody.
STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: We`ve already seen her soft launch by
video, by van brought to you by a massive pack of media but now begins
Hillary Clinton`s hard roll out.
CLINTON: More fun. I think we have a huge fund deficit.
KORNACKI: In New York City on Saturday, the first big rally, the first
official event of Hillary Clinton`s 2016 campaign to be held on an island
just off Manhattan named for a member of another Democratic dynasty. And
while it`s easy to think of Hillary Clinton as already competed in the
CLINTON: Former Governor Rick Perry, Governor Scott Walker, Governor Chris
Christie, Jeb Bush.
KORNACKI: This is exactly how she looked at this stage of the race eight
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Tonight is your answer.
KORNACKI: For a first term senator from Illinois proved the only sure
thing in politics is that there are no sure things. This time around
she`ll need to get through a growing field of fellow Democrats. And you
can expect each one of them to be gunning for Hillary when they face off in
six planned debates. Clinton won last week Wisconsin straw poll but only
barely with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont breathing down her neck
getting 41 percent to her 49. Hillary`s got a commanding lead in the
national polls. But if there`s going to be hiccup for here or worse. It`s
going to come early. First out of gate, Iowa that`s a contest where then
Senator Clinton finished in third place in 2008.
CLINTON: I see what`s happening. We have to reverse it.
KORNACKI: She did better in New Hampshire winning but this time around the
neighbor from right next door, Vermont is going to be on the ballot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you Bernie.
SANDERS: And I appreciate that. And I love you too.
KORNACKI: The most likely outcome, Clinton wins Iowa and wins New
Hampshire and wins them convincingly, locks up the nomination early. But
just remember when it comes to picking presidents, these are two states
that often have minds of their own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DSYON: Joining me now is our Rapid Response Panel, MSNBC Steve Kornacki,
also Caroline Heldman Professor of politics at Occidental College, and
Michael Steele Former RNC Chairman and MNSBC political analysis.
Steve you talk about a hiccup that would come early. What are the
potential trip wires out there for Hillary Clinton?
KORNACKI: Yeah. I mean, if you`re looking at the Democrat race, you know,
we tend to overlook it. You look at those first state in the calendar we
mention them in Iowa and New Hampshire. And if you`re looking at Bernie
Sanders who among these Democrats who`re out there challenging Hillary
Clinton has so far generated the most energy challenging her.
If you look Bernie Sanders, those states set up pretty well for him at
least as, you know, as well they came in a race against Hillary Clinton.
You go to Iowa. That`s caucus state much more activist oriented, in a much
more liberal elected. Somebody with his populous message tends to do well
out in Iowa. We know Hillary Clinton has struggle in Iowa before. So Iowa
is a place where Bernie Sanders, it could be fertile ground from him.
If you go to New Hampshire and as we say New Hampshire, you know, that is a
next door neighbor state for Bernie Sanders. He`s known to a lot of people
in the state already. And so the character of the voters in New Hampshire
at least parts of New Hampshire very similar to the character to the
In Vermont so these are voters you might have sort a natural connection
with might do well with those voters New Hampshire so its set up, if you`re
Bernie Sanders. Look, there`s a possibility you could exceed expectation
in Iowa, a possibility he could exceed expectation in New Hampshire. If
you`re Hillary Clinton, what`s the worse case scenario? The worst case
scenario is you`re looking one of those states.
DYSON: Yeah, Professor Caroline, given what Steve has given us in terms of
an analysis about Bernie Sanders presence. What do you expect Hillary to
talk about tomorrow and do you think Bernie Sanders is already having a
noticeable effect on her discourse.
CAROLINE HELDMAN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICS OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE: I think he is
pulling her further to the left, which is exactly why he`s on the race.
Even though I very much align with his values, I don`t think he`s actually
electable even he does well in the first two primaries. I think that
Hillary Clinton does have this wrapped up to a certain extent and tomorrow
I would anticipate that she`s going to talk about her four-point plan to
protect families, national security, the growing gap between rich and poor
and also corporate money and politics.
So, that is her platform. She`s laying it out very symbolically on
Roosevelt Island. She conjure up images and stores of Eleanor Roosevelt.
And tomorrow she has the top sell of both being a fighter and humanizing
herself. And those are the core concepts of her campaign at this point.
DYSON: Mr. Chairman, how important tomorrow. You`ve been around the barn
a few times with this.
MICHAEL STEELE, FMR. RNC CHAIRMAN: Yeah.
DYSON: How important is this official announcement tomorrow?
STEELE: I think it`s huge. And I think to the points of both Steve and
Emily who have made speaks to that. Caroline, I`m sorry Caroline.
Caroline made speaks to that because for Hillary, everything she`s done up
to now has been dodged by Bengazi, you know, e-mails, servers all these
generated noise outside of the campaign structure that quite frankly
they`ve not responded to or responder too poorly.
I think tomorrow is her reset. This is Hillary 3.0 if you will. Where
she`s going to have a chance to actually, to Caroline point layout her
plan, set her vision and then launch that campaign which will be
interesting given that on Monday. Jeb Bush will do the exact same thing
given all the noise that is surrounded his campaign. So, these two
campaigns that we look at it, you know, possibly being the nominees for the
respected parties are in reset mode. And they really need to roll it out
right because if they don`t then they`re going to feed that energy that
Steve talked about that you see for Bernie Sanders and that we see on
Republican side for folks like Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, et cetera, et
DYSON: All right. So Steve, what`s going on with the trend to pre-
announce and then to officially announce?
KORNACKI: I mean, welcome to this new age of politics, right. I mean, the
big announcement now is I`m going to have a big announcement three weeks
from now. And, you know, what, but it seems to work for these folks. It`s
interesting you talk about the Republican side I think is particularly
interesting to look at right now because we`ve been seeing these candidates
as they have the announcements of announcements and then announcement.
They are in a lot of cases getting a bit of a polling bounce from this. We
certainly saw when Ted Cruz announced earlier this year. We`ve seen it for
KORNACKI: He sure when he announce and you look at with all those
Republicans candidates are up against now. They are up against a much more
urgent sort urgent deadline and that is august. The first Republican
presidential debate, can they get in the top ten of the polling so the
announcement maybe helped them move their numbers and get into the debate.
DYSON: All right. So Professor Caroline, New York City Mayor Bill de
Blasio has said he will not attend Clinton`s announcement tomorrow. In 25
seconds tell us what`s behind that move.
HELDMAN: Well, I think it`s purely partisan move, right. That this will
be her reset, this will likely launch her, at least what I like to call
operation humanization. This will be a turning point in her campaign. And
so, I can see partisan politics that play here very obviously.
DYSON: All right. Chairman rather quickly what do you expect Jeb Bush to
say on Monday?
STEELE: I think he`s going to probably do what we see Hillary do is layout
a plan, layout a vision and I think for him if that`s moment where he
begins to take his brother off his back or at least attempt to get his
brother off his back and so to set what he wants to do as president as
opposed to what people think he will do because of his brother.
DYSON: Yeah, the Clintons and the Bush`s, you know, part two, part three.
STEELE: Part two, part three, yeah. We got around the Bush, we were right
back where we start, right.
DYSON: All right, Steve Kornacki, Caroline Heldman, Professor at
Occidental College and Michael Steele. Thank you so much for your time.
Still to come, a local NAACP leader is facing tough questions on race, her
race. We`ll have the latest details ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight`s
question, "Will Democrats hold the line against the TPP?"
Keep voting until the end of the hour at polls.msnbc.com/ed. We`ll be
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.
In the tonight`s Two-Minute drill, tied up. The Golden State Warriors
evened up the NBA finals Thursday night with 103-82 victory over the
Cleveland Cavaliers. The Steph Curry and Andre Iguodala lead Golden State
come back with 22 points a piece. The Warriors out scored the Cavs 27-12
in the fourth quarter to put Cleveland away.
Lebron James had a few caught on camera moments during the game. With
under six minutes left many the first half he took a tumble. An unlucky
camera man got an extreme close up of the spill. And Lebron did not walk
away unscaved. The camera left a gash on Lebron`s head, but the king would
not advocate (ph) the court and he played the rest of the game. James end
the tonight with 20 points.
Earlier in the evening Lebron got some over exposure from the camera. The
pre-game show caught Lebron adjusting his uniform on the sidelines. We`re
calling a technical foul on the director. The series more back to the
Warriors home turf for game five on Sunday.
Stick around. There`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show after this.
DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. The president of a Washington chapter
of the NAACP has come under intense scrutiny after her family told local
media the civil rights activist has been falsely portraying herself as
black for years. Gabe Cohen has more.
GABE COHEN, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Rachel Dolezal`s future remains uncertain
because of the questions raised by this transformation.
RUTHANNE DOLEZAL, RACHEL MOTHER: She wants to re-create reality. She
wants to just invent herself.
COHEN: Her parents say Dolezal is white.
LARRY DOLEZAL, RACHEL FATHER: She`s Caucasian by birth.
COHEN: And his photos prove it. In 2009 Dolezal told KHQ she was biracial
and in official city job application she checked the box for African-
American. She received that job. But her parents say she misrepresented
DOLEZAL: She knows it`s false, but I think she`s told herself as well as
she`s told others this erroneous identity of hers enough that by now she
may believe it more than she believes the truth.
COHEN: Now the city`s investigating whether or not she violated city
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: The NAACP is standing by Dolezal. The organization release a
statement earlier today saying "One`s racial identity is not a qualifying
criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership. The NAACP,
Alaska-Oregon-Washington state conference stands behind Ms. Dolezal`s
advocacy record. In every corner of this country, the NAACP remains
committed to securing political, educational and economic justice for all
people and we encourage Americans of all stripes to become members and
serve as leader in our organization.
Joining me now is MSNBC Contributor Dr. James Peterson, director of
Africana studies at Lehigh University and Daily Beast Columnist Dean
Obeidallah. Dr. Peterson Dolezal`s parents say she got a full scholarship
to Howard University. She teaches Africana studies at Eastern Washington
University. You`re professor of Africana studies. What do you make of
JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I think this is one of the more bizarre
stories that I`ve ever had to sort of cover or pay attention to. The NAACP
is kind of right here that the history of the NAACP certainly has been one
of being multicultural and there`s no sort of racial litmus testing,
they`re join or participate. But we have to understand the history of
passing as a fraught history within the United States. And you know this
doctor that black folks passing as white, historically is something that
has been subversive but also just fraught with all sorts of tensions and a
complicated relationship by between those individuals and blackness and
also the sense of power hierarchies in our society having to do with race.
So when you see someone like Ms. Dolezal inverting that paradigm, a lot of
black folks are offended because they feel like it undermine and disrespect
that particular history. And so, I don`t know if there`s any kind of legal
recourse for the city. There certainly isn`t any for the NAACP. But there
is going to be some outrage from the black community because many folks are
fully aware of the history of passing and the ways in which she`s inverted
it here seem to be disrespectful towards that history.
DYSON: Well, Dean in light of what Dr. Peterson says some could argue on
the other hand. Look, race is a social construct. It`s not something
we`re biologically inheriting when we`re born. That the meanings of race
depend on a society to give meaning to them and substance to them and as a
result of that the legitimate concerns that Dr. Peterson raises are there
but also maybe we have to challenge the category of race itself where she
would invest in being black because black is more than biology.
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, THE DAILY BEAST: It`s a very interesting point the idea
that in America races is not just skin collar, it`s the way often you`re
treated or perceived. I look like a white person to most people frankly.
I`m of half Arab heritage and I`m Muslim. I`m not treated like a white
person. There were people in my community define my community. The only
and you`re a minority in America and you go through that. I think in this
case though with here.
The question to me is. Is she trusted by her community any longer? It
seems to be a series of lives frankly and I had to be -- I use to be a
lawyer and look at this way. There`s a chance she could have lied to the
police about a bomb threat sent to her or some threatening mail, they`re
not sure now. There could be a crime there. There could be a crime in the
application she filled out saying African-American she was giving that to a
government agency. But if that there`s no crime. In the community that
she works within supports her and says "You know you`ve done a great job
reinvigorating our chapter of the NAACP. We still want you".
Then I`m all for it. But I think it does raises as Dr. Peterson said it
races some complex questions in a broader sense that have to be, you know,
the community itself has to answer, not for me to answer that question.
DYSON: Sure. Well, Dr. Peterson, about those questions, then, what kind
of questions could be put forth in terms of reversing the paradigm you
spoke about in regard to passing. In this case here`s a white woman
seeking to identify with the broader community of African-American people.
And if she`s not being proved to derive certain benefit from that, being
the head of the NAACP certainly is one, but instead of trying to represent
the interests of those people, is there leeway to say " All right, it`s
kind of jacked up but at the same time we understand the impulse?
PETERSON: Well, I can`t personally give her that leeway. I think Dean is
absolutely right that the community predict we hear immediate community
would have to do that. In such a strange story, doc. because you`re right
that race is a social construct, but unfortunately this particular episode
and what Ms. Dolezal is engaged in reveals for us the very sort of
tentative and vulnerable nature of that social construction.
And so, while we want to understand it, ultimately there`s a very little
biological basis for the kinds of racial distinctions that we tend to make
particularly in American society. A very (ph) folks wanted those are
protected classes. People protect that because we have to understand the
history and the culture and the legacy that attaches to that, has very,
very serious meaning even though in social constructed and has very real
consequences and very real set of experiences for black folk in this
And so, black folk are outrage and responding to this and there`s a lot of
joking about it. But you can tell people are upset because it looks as if
her inversion of that historical paradigm of passing is in some ways
undermining or poking fun or disrespecting what the awful legacy of that
has and what it has been. The idea that you could choose to be black or
not is something that one, it does two things, it puts into bold relief the
social construction of race, but it also reveals the vulnerability of what
it means to be black in America and the idea that someone would choose to
expose that vulnerability and play on it in some ways maybe for personal
gain as opposed to professional gain is what`s annoying a lot of black
folks in the community right now.
DYSON: Dean, you`re a former lawyer.
DYSON: Tell us what you think the NAACP can and should do and how should
the community respond in regard to issue of racial identification and
racial identity in regard to the work that she`s there to do.
OBEIDALLAH: It seems the NAACP has put out a statement. They`re standing
with her. I imagine they spoke to local community leaders there who said
"You know, what, she`s done a great job for us". But I wonder how you can
trust her. And it`s interesting because of all the -- and you see
statement after statement, and tweet after tweet where she says, I`m black.
And she walks away from a reporter saying is your father African-American.
And she walks away very befuddled.
I think undermine him some level the work on her on behalf of NAACP in the
future, going on media outlets and talking about it people going hey, you
know, how do you trust her now? I mean, I hate to go back to this false in
all false in one thing that we learn in law school. But she did a series
of lives. If tough to trust him and I`m going to be on one thing though.
I wish it`s going to have allies outside your community.
I mean as a Muslim I`m so happy when anonymous when stand with us. I don`t
know any people pretending to be Muslims in this climate right now, but
we`d love to have more allies. But you should tell people what you are
about and who you are and not misrepresenting yourself. And that`s what`s
so bizarre about this case to me.
DYSON: All right, we`ll continue to.
PETERSON: Well, talk one quick question, doc. , you know, you talk in
your work about whether or not blackness is intentional or is it incidental
and I wonder how would you categorize Ms. Dolezal in this case because many
folks are reading this as black face, but do you see this as being more
incidental, more intentional, as it matter except framework even work in
terms of trying to think about what she`s doing here?
DYSON: We`ll we have to go, but I would say that`s a good point. I think
that look it`s very complicated in an era where police people are putting
girls down on the ground and whiteness has assaulted through police powers,
African-American unarmed people, this seems to me to be an invitation to
not only rethink the categories of race but to talk about who our allies
truly are and how blackness signifies on a number of levels that offers
opportunities to white people to find their truer selves as well.
All of that I think is in the mix of the legit points that both of you have
made. Dr. James Peterson, and Dean Obeidallah. Thank you so much for your
PETERSON: Thanks doc.
DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
PoliticsNation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.
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