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The Ed Show for Wednesday, July 1st, 2015

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Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: July 1, 2015
Guest: Corey Hebert, Christina Hildebrand, Caroline Heldman, Ron Christie,
Mark Potok, Mark Tyler, Ricardo Herrero, Ana Rivas Logan

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota.

Let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Tonight, tough new rule.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor of California signed in to law one of the
toughest vaccine bills in the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protester had made it clear they will fight this
decision.

SCHULTZ: Plus, notorious and notoriety.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump is now in second place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, another presidential candidate will be making a
stop in Wisconsin. The senator from Vermont is expected to withdraw more
than 9,000 people.

SCHULTZ: And back in business.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The United States has agreed
to formally re-establish diplomatic relation with the Republic of Cuba.
Now we can be friends.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: The President did wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.
Well, here we go parents are going to be paying attention to this all
across the country.

Actor Jim Carrey and California is outrage over the states new vaccination
law. On Tuesday California Governor Jerry Brown sign the bill into law and
people are responding. Children are now required to get vaccinated or they
won`t be allowed to attend school. The law strikes down California`s
personal belief exception. It`s farthest any law has ever gone in that
regard. Parents can no long up out a vaccination on religious grounds.
Under the new law only children with serious health problems will be exempt
from mandatory vaccination.

The move causes actor Jim Carrey to rant on Twitter saying "California
governor says yes to poisoning more children with mercury and aluminum in
mandatory vaccines. This corporate fascist must be stopped."

Carrey went on to Tweet "I`m not anti-vaccine. I`m anti- thimerosal, anti-
mercury. They have taken some of the mercury laden thimerosal out of
vaccines. Not all."

Jim Carrey became critical of vaccines while dating actress Jenny McCarthy.
McCarthy believes her son autism was cause by vaccines. The CDC has
repeatedly said "There was absolutely no link between autism vaccines.

Well, back in 2009 when McCarthy and Carrey were dating, they both spoke
out about vaccines on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM CARREY, ACTOR: No one has ever suggested not vaccinating.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: What are you saying?

MCCARTHY: Go back to 1989 schedule when shots were only 10 and the MMR was
on that list. I don`t know what happened in 1990, there was no plague that
was killing children that we had to triple the amount of vaccines.

CARREY: What happened back in 1989?

KING: And why did they triple.

CARREY: That warranted 26 more vaccines.

MCCARTHY: Greed.

CARREY: Are all of them absolutely necessary?

KING: Because they want to make money?

MCCARTHY: Of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Greed, that quite an accusation. McCarthy and Carrey think
parents need to be cautious when it comes to vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: If its vaccination and you`re not against that.

MCCARTHY: Right.

KING: What are you against, vaccinate for this and but vaccinate for that?

MCCARTHY: Yes.

CARREY: I think we have to choose which (inaudible) necessary.

KING: And how do I know which one?

MCCARTHY: You should educate yourself. We want to empower parents to
educate themselves. Do we need to have the chicken pox? Do we have to have
hepatitis B shot on the second day of life?

CARREY: I don`t think we can afford to assume that people who are charged
with our public health any longer have our best interests at heart all the
time. Parents have to attempt to make their own decisions, educated
decisions. They have to look at the information.

MCCARTHY: Space out the vaccines. Delay them till after one, clean out
the toxins that are in them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: McCarthy and Carrey are specifically worried about a mercury base
preservative in some vaccines called the thimerosal. The ingredient has
been phase out of childhood vaccine. The CDC says no childhood vaccine
distributed in the United States contain mercury or thimerosal, although
it`s still present in the flu vaccine.

People can request a preservative free version but it still has a trace
amount of the controversial ingredient. Jim Carrey attack the CDC in his
Twitter rant saying "The CDC can`t solve a problem they helped start. It`s
too risky to admit they have been wrong about mercury and thimerosal. They
are corrupt."

Governor Jerry Brown of course disagrees with Carrey and other opponents of
the law. He said the science behind vaccine is clear and immunizing
protects the community.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know you think tonight. And think
about your kids on this question. "Should vaccines be mandatory?" Go to
pulse.msnbc.com/ED to cast your vote. We`ll bring you the results later on
in the show.

For more let me bring in Dr. Corey Hebert Professor at LSU Health Science
Center. Doctor, Good to have you with us tonight.

DR. COREY HEBERT, PROFESSOR LSU SCIENCE CENTER: Good to be here.

SCHULTZ: What is your professional conclusion? Is there risk in vaccines
to the level where it has to be -- the people have to be concern about it
being mandatory?

HEBERT: Well, honestly after doing research for the last 20 years in this
field at this point there are no scientifically base studies to say that
there is any more risk in vaccination, that would cause you to not want to
vaccinate your child because of the risk of the actual diseases that are
out there in United States right now.

For example we`re talking about the measles vaccine. You know, measles
vaccine is very important. But in California we also had a measle out
break. We also had a meningitis outbreak. We also had a pertussis
outbreak. And let`s be very clear here. There is some part of Los Angeles
that have vaccination rates below 20 percent. And we know that less than
in some developing countries.

If you don`t have a herd immunity of at least 90 percent then the people
that really need to be vaccinated meaning the children. They`re not going
to be vaccinated, they`re not going to have the antibody high enough to
fight the disease if they don`t happen to get vaccinated because too young.
So I have a practice right now. I can`t have a four month old in my
practice and he is not old enough to get the measle vaccine. But your
child is one-year-old and you refuse to get the vaccine and then you give
that four month old the measles, then who`s going to be happy then.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HEBERT: And talking cheap (ph) I just have to say, you know, when your
child gets measles and they get a complication like subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis and their about to die. Call Jim Carrey then and see who
want to talk your doctor or Jim Carrey. Who will fill dumb and dumber then
Ed?

SCHULTZ: Well, doctor wouldn`t the opponents of this mandatory law argue
that those numbers are very small. And it just doesn`t -- it interferes
with the civil liberty of family that they`re being told what has to be
injected into their child when across the board it`s not totally perfect.
Would admit to that?

HEBERT: Right, nothing has totally perfect. I mean, we know one of the
biggest killers in the America is Atenolol (ph) and nobody read the package
and insert on that. So let -- we have to talk about science here.

SCHULTZ: OK.

HEBERT: So, the reality is that, you know, when you have -- the risk with
everything. But without vaccination and sanitation the United States
probably wouldn`t be here right now.

SCHULTZ: All right. I`d like to bring in Christina Hildebrand. She is
the founder and president of A Voice for Choice. Christina, good to have
you with us again tonight. I want to continue our discussion. Your main
focus on this is.

CHRISTINA HILDEBRAND, A VOICE FOR CHOICE: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: It sounds like a Civil Rights issue that you want parents, to
have the final say over medicine, yet medicine says we`ve got to protect
society. Where do you come down on this?

HILDEBRAND: I agree with you. It`s completely prime (ph) for right issue.
It also a constitutional issue. It`s also a where does the government --
how far the can government reached? And is this overreach and it is
overreach. We can`t be having our government telling us what we put into
our bodies and into our children bodies when it comes to pharmaceutical
drug especially vaccines.

Vaccine there is no liability for the vaccine manufactures. So you cannot
sue a vaccine manufacturer. It you have an adverse reaction. That`s huge.
To mandate a vaccine regardless of whether you`re for or against vaccines.
To mandate something that you -- that there is no liability for you. You
cannot sue over is just for the government to do that it just flat out
wrong. There was forecast in...

SCHULTZ: Doctor, what about that? I want to get Dr. Hebert response to
that.

HILDEBRAND: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: Doctor, what about that last statement?

HEBERT: Yeah. I think that what he is saying is very important because
there is a reporting agency called VAERS that is a reporting agency for all
Adverse Event.

HILDEBRAND: There is but it is very underused and people don`t know about
it.

HEBERT: No, no, no wait more than underused its also erroneous because
anyone can actually report to VAERS not just the doctor. So I have a fever
after I have a vaccination. I can call or if there`s a bomb (ph) on the
street that wants to call and say "My friend child had vaccination react
and he can call too. So that`s -- we`ve got to be very careful about that.
So, were parent see here about these vaccination injuries. They hear about
all things in VAERS. But VAERS is something that is not regulated and
anyone can call.

SCHULTZ: OK.

HILDEBRAND: But I go either response (ph) that you say this.

SCHULTZ: Christina, your response?

HILDEBRAND: VAERS is not properly used. VAERS is pretty much obsolete.
It`s not use correctly though.

HEBERT: I agree.

HILDEBRAND: Doctors do put their things -- the parents put their issue in,
but regardless when you look at it. There is a vaccine court which a
government organized a no fault, no jury to court where you can go if you
have anaphylactic shock and you have permanent disability or if you die
from the vaccine, that your one in the million number of having adverse
reaction to vaccines.

If you have anything less than that, so there are plenty of parents out
there whose children had have seizure. You just look at the vaccine
package inserts of any of these vaccines which are not given to parents
when their children are given vaccination. Those vaccinations are not
given.

HEBERT: That`s not true, that`s not true. OK.

HILDEBRAND: You`re given a one page.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HILDEBRAND: From the CDC.

HEBERT: That`s not true.

HILDEBRAND: And you`re not given the whole vaccine.

HEBERT: You`re always -- that`s always available to you.

HILDEBRAND: No, no, no vaccine insert. It`s available but it`s never
given.

HEBERT: I give it.

HILDEBRAND: On that vaccine package insert, it gives you all of the
reaction that you`re child can have or suppose can`t have.

SCHULTZ: Now, I want to. OK.

HILDEBRAND: If there is a risky involve there has to be a choice.

SCHULTZ: All right. Well, there is no choice after this law. And the
question is.

HILDEBRAND: Right.

SCHULTZ: Is this going to spread the country? But doctor is as heavy a
hand as we`ve seen by a state to do something like this, to tell parent you
must do this with your child or you`re not going to be able to send your
kid to school. Has nothing to do with religion, all of that stuff is
exempt out. All of that stuff is wipe away. I mean, is this taking
science into a new direction. Is this taking health care in American into
a new direction?

HILDEBRAND: They`re taking the pharmacies.

HEBERT: This is there.

HILDEBRAND: They`re taking the pharmaceutical companies into new
direction.

SCHULTZ: OK.

HILDEBRAND: That.

HEBERT: It`s a very harsh law. I totally agree. But you got to remember
not only can you exempts if you have a medical reason. But even if you had
a family history of a medical reason, you still can be exempt. So I think
that`s pretty fair.

HILDEBRAND: But that`s what happens in the doctor`s office. When you go
into the doctor office. Your doctor is.

HEBERT: I`m a doctor I know what happens to doctor`s office. I actually
what happen to mine.

HILDEBRAND: I understand that. But when you go into doctor`s office, that
doctor office can have any rule that they want. If you asked the doctors
get me a medical exemption base on my family history. Right now, most
doctors are not going to do that. They go by their own rules, most them
say you had to have a vaccine reaction in order to get you...

HEBERT: That anecdotal to me to say that.

SCHULTZ: All right.

HILDEBRAND: ... exemption and if you -- and I will say if you come in
there the insurance company also have a huge saying this of what doctors
do. Every child of it is...

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s another point of what will bring up here.

HILDEBRAND: ... fully vaccinated they get incentives for.

SCHULTZ: Hold on. I want to get to this point about. I believe that the
American company -- the American people do not trust big companies.

HEBERT: I agree.

SCHULTZ: That is profit driven. This is one of the things that Jim Carrey
was...

HILDEBRAND: Yes.

SCHULTZ: ... really getting at. Is that we`re trusting profit takers and
we`re trusting people who want to make money and getting in a position the
government to make sure that a law is past that their drugs in new...

HILDEBRAND: Yes.

SCHULTZ: ... are going to be used. I mean doctor do you have concern
about that?

HEBERT: Well, I mean it`s always concerning because there is way that
everybody can police every corporate organization. We found that from Wall
Street to Main Street, OK? But what we have to look at the science and the
20 to 30 studies that have come out in the last 10 years to show the safety
of the vaccination.

SCHULTZ: OK.

HILDEBRAND: And there is no true professor.

HILDEBRAND: Who are those studies done by? Their done by...

HEBERT: Someone independent.

HILDEBRAND: ... or companies or by researchers that are paid by
pharmaceutical companies.

HEBERT: Someone independent. And some are not. You`re correct.

HILDEBRAND: Very few are independent.

HEBERT: It doesn`t matter.

SCHULTZ: OK.

HEBERT: Some of them are not.

HILDEBRAND: It does matter.

SCHULTZ: So what we have here.

HILDEBRAND: It does absolutely matter.

SCHULTZ: All right so what we have here.

HEBERT: That means that we have independent studies to show the
vaccinations are safe. They`re independent (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: OK.

HEBERT: I just want to be clear about.

HILDEBRAND: Vaccines are not 100 percent safe vaccine.

SCHULTZ: Let me turn up this point if I may. Hold on. Let me bring up
this point is I may. Let say the law is going back to old way that this
(inaudible) law did not pass. How many kids?

HILDEBRAND: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: Are going to be put at risk. Doctor, I think a fair question.

HILDEBRAND: That is the thing there is no crisis.

HEBERT: Right.

HILDEBRAND: There is no crisis at the moment and this...

HEBERT: OK.

HILDEBRAND: ... bill did not need to go through. We had a personal
believe exemption. There was a law that went into place in 2014, the 2014
school year, which basically said that now if you want to personally
believe exemption you have to get a doctors signature on that. You have to
have the conversation with your doctor to have -- to whether of what the
benefit -- the person to consult that.

HEBERT: And you should have to have that.

HILDEBRAND: You want to have personal belief exempt. We`re talking about
2.5 percent of California 5 to 18 year old and of that 2.5 percent we have
no idea because the state doesn`t count it whether those people are fully
on vaccinated or whether they have.

SCHULTZ: Christina, I want to give the doctor the final word here.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: We`re running out of time. Hold on a minute, wait a minute.
Just hold on. I know that this is very passionate. We could spend hours
on this subject. I get that.

HILDEBRAND: We can.

SCHULTZ: But I got to give the doctor the final -- I want to give the
doctor the final word on this. Christian says there`s no crisis. Doctor,
I want to respond to that and we`re going to go.

HEBERT: One thing I want to say. I do respect your position. But the
most important thing is you say there is no crisis. Tell that to the baby
that I`ve held -- the babies that held in arms that have died from
hemolysis (ph).

SCHULTZ: OK.

HEBERT: That once in fact the vaccine.

HILDEBRAND: And you tell that to the vaccine injured in the kids...

SCHULTZ: All right.

HILDEBRAND: ... who have died from vaccine. You tell that to their
parents.

SCHULTZ: Christina Hildebrand, Dr. Corey Hebert, great to have both of you
with us tonight. We will do this story again because this story is not
over. It`s going to go all over American. There`s other legislative
bodies across the country. They`re going to have taking this up.

And of course tonight we want you to remember to answer this question at
pulse.msnbc.com. We`ll have the result after the break. Follow us on
Facebook and watch my Facebook feature "Give me a minute". And you can get
my video Podcast that WeGotEd.com.

Coming up, Donald Trump the competition in new polling. While Bernie
Sanders is drawing record crowds across the country our political analyst
weigh in on the competition on both sides of the aisle.

And later, a string of suspicious fires of southern communities on alert.
Do they need to be?

We`ll have that when we come back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And the numbers are coming in here on the Ed Show. We want you
to vote. Here where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight`s
question, "Should vaccination be mandatory?"

75 percent of you say "Yes". 25 percent of you say "No, that`s government
John (ph) what do with your kid". Keep on voting throughout the hour at
pulse.msnbc.com/ED.

We`re back on the on the Ed Show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you back with us on the Ed Show. Thanks for
watching tonight. Well, hold the phone. Donald Trump according to the
polling is a solid prospect for presidential frontrunner in Michigan. Here
are the numbers. Trump is a three way tie on that state for number two
with Jeb Bush and Ben Carson. Public Policy polling puts them at 14
percent. The latest Quinnipiac poll shows Trump is in top tier. Trump is
tied with Ben Carson for the number two spot. Nationwide the CNN/OCR poll
has Trump in second place. He follows Jeb Bush with 12 percent to his 19
percent.

Now, look folks I know it`s entertaining but you cannot deny that Trump is
a force in the Republican field earlier on. He`s climbing in the polls
despite all the controversy and news. Our parent company NBCUniversal
ended its relationship with Donald Trump earlier this week...

Macy`s also ended its relationship with Trump today. The company cited its
remarks about immigrants from Mexico.

Trump continues to mix it up legally, grabbing more headlines. The Donald
has filed a $500 million lawsuit against Univision after the televisions
networks decided not to broadcast the Miss USA pageant which of course
Trump is a co-owner of.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton is getting a serious challenge from Senator
Bernie Sanders. What`s this all about?

Clinton is drawing the huge polling numbers. Bernie Sanders is drawing the
huge crowds. The Vermont Senator is pack at the halls (ph). He did in
Minnesota with some 4,000 supporters. In Denver, over 5,000 people filled
at university gymnasium into an outdoor stands where they had to hear him
speak over the screen. And of course the Vermont socialist is just
rallying for over an hour at that speech talking about taking corporate
money out of politics which seems to be the buzz subject matter throughout
his theme.

Tonight, Bernie Sanders is expected to shatter all of those numbers. Some
10,000 people are expected at his Madison, Wisconsin event tonight. It set
to be the largest events so far in the 2016 presidential race. I will be
in Madison tonight right after this show to cover the event and we`ll have
a one-on-one with Bernie Sanders which will play tomorrow on this program.
I got to see 10,000 people.

I mean, folks, this is July 1st, 2015. I thought it was suppose to be
political exhaustion in this country.

Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush have big names but Bernie Sanders and Donald
Trump. They apparently have the voice and all the attention of the people.
They are captivating voters across the nation with a pull no punches
campaign. At least that`s the way it appears right now.

Joining me tonight, Caroline Heldman, Professor of Politics in Occidental
College. Also with us tonight, Ron Christie, Daily Beast Columnist and
Former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush.

Ron, I got to start with you tonight. Can we come to a conclusion that
this whole table now is being set for us to have more fun with politics
than we had in a long time? I mean, we got -- can we got Christie, we got
Trump, we got Bernie going after it. I mean, does it get any better than
this early on? What do you think?

RON CHRISTIE, DAILY BEAST COLUMNIST: No, it doesn`t. Good evening, Ed.
You know, I think for people like us who surround that water cooler and
talk about politics, this could not be a more crazy time.

And as a Republican, I sit here and look at these polls and say, Donald
Trump is number two? Are you kidding me? A guy who has a checkered
business record, a guy who has no political experience, someone who`s
always in it for himself, always in it for the headlines, and I think to my
Republican brother across the country, we owe a lot of problems in this
country and this is not the guy I want whose hand on the button and trying
to solve these problems.

SCHULTZ: Well, Ron, you bring up an interesting point. I drew its
parallel on this program last night or a few nights ago about it`s the
Jesse Ventura effect. I mean, Jesse Ventura pro wrestler was elected
Governor in Minnesota beat a Humphrey name and also beat Norm Coleman. I
mean, crazy stuff happens in politics. What`s unfolding with Donald Trump
as you see it?

CHRISTIE: Well, the way I see it, Ed, is I think that there a lot of
people who looked at the Republican field right now and say it`s the usual,
typical, stereotypical Washington politicians who have their money in the
hands of lobbyist, trying to raise money and trying to do the thing. And
you can see a lot of things about Donald Trump but I do take him in his
word when he said I`m not going to raise any money from lobbyist. They`re
not going to be in my White House. And I think there is a lot of
dissatisfaction for the status quo politicians. That`s why I think he`s
getting nearly buzz right now.

SCHULTZ: Caroline Heldman, what fascinates voters and folks about Donald
Trump at this point as you see it?

CAROLINE HELDMAN, PROFESSOR OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE: Well, Ed, I think it`s
fascinating that he went from three percent support before announcing. He
gave a speech where he was overtly racist toward Latinos and he gets 12
percent in national polls now.

I think he -- his messages resonating with the 57 percent of Americans who
hold either implicit or explicit racial bias against Latinos who buy into
those stereotypes certainly because they`ve heard it for years and years on
conservative talk radio and television programs where stereotypes about
Latino criminality and laziness are pushed and they`re pushed constantly
and culture said something very similar last month. So, I actually -- I`m
very concern that Donald Trump is playing so well after giving those
specific remarks.

SCHULTZ: Well, with that concern, it would seem to me that when the
debates get going and I know the Republicans want to control the debates,
Caroline, but any moderator worth his or her salt is going to refer to some
of the comments that Donald Trump is making and try to draw the other
candidates out to the point where maybe they`re going to have to distance
themselves from Trump in a big way. Do you see that happening?

HELDMAN: Well, I think it would be wise to do that especially for the
frontrunner Jeb Bush who does take a more moderate position on immigration
but I think you`ll see Ted Cruz and other Tea Party candidates as passing
some of the same troubling beliefs and I hope that this comes up.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HELDMAN: In the Republican primary so that it is made obvious to the
American public, what is driving the debate.

SCHULTZ: OK. Interesting point you make that they would distance
themselves from Donald Trump.

Ron Christie, so far they haven`t done that. I mean, no one that I have
seen in the Republican field has come out and said what Donald Trump said
is outrageous. It`s almost as if they`re, you know, walking likely around
that like they kind of agree with him. What about that?

CHRISTIE: Yeah. I don`t agree with that, Ed. I wouldn`t give the guy any
air time. I wouldn`t give him anytime to have his message out there. I
think he`s somewhat of a joke of the candidate. And if I`m a Jeb Bush or
Marco Rubio or several others, I wouldn`t give him the time a day. I`d run
my campaign.

SCHULTZ: So, do we ignore a guy who`s in second place?

CHRISTIE: Well, I think these numbers are soft. I think when he get them
up there on the stage with the other candidates talking about platforms and
positions, I think he`s going to plummet. I think the guy has no
significant substance as a political candidate and I think the American
people are going to see that when they get him up there on the stage. So,
I`m not too worried about him sticking around for far too long.

SCHULTZ: Well, he`s got billions of dollars. I mean if he wants to be
president, I don`t know how you get to run this guy out. I`m going to tell
you what. I would rather see a guy, a billionaire like Donald Trump run
for president than this Adelson (ph) and guy who just throws the money out
there. At least, Trump`s willing to get into the ring and take some
punches and also throw a few.

So, I think, politically, he`s got to get some kind of respect in that
regard. Now, his policies, he says Obamacare is going to ruin the country.
Well, wait a minute, not everybody likes Obamacare but I don`t think it`s
going to ruin the country. So, he`s got some explaining to do.

But here`s a thing, Ron are you concern that he`s going to just suck too
much air out of the room and it`s going to hurt the party?

CHRISTIE: No. Not really, Ed. I think, again, he`ll get on the stage in
that first Republican debate. I think people will see him for who he is.
They`ll gauge him against Governor Bush, against Marco Rubio, against the
strong Republican field and say, "Really?" It`s what we want to do is
nominate someone who has no experience with all of the troubles we have
going on here at home and around the world.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CHRISTIE: Not a chance, Ed. I`m not worried about him at all.

SCHULTZ: OK. All right. Caroline, Bernie Sanders, what do you make of
10,000 in Madison, you know, 4000 in Minneapolis, 5500 in Denver, what`s
going on here? What`s this mean? Is this a movement?

HELDMAN: Well, it certainly a movement but I don`t think it will be
successful. You know, Ed, as a Democratic socialist myself, I have this
pipe dream that one will get into the White House but as a political
scientist, I know that he has about a snowballs chance to do so. I mean he
doesn`t up against Clinton, he doesn`t have the money, she has over a
hundred percent of endorsement over a hundred so far but more importantly,
he`s only polling five percent from voters of color and they comprise one
out of every three primary voters. So, he hasn`t done the work that he
needs to do in order to win the primary and he`s unelectable in the general
because he has socialist in the title of the party he`s affiliated with.

SCHULTZ: All right. Caroline Heldman and Ron Christie, thanks for joining
us tonight. I appreciate the conversation.

Still to come, more on the investigation into a string of fires at
historically black churches around the country. Stay tune. We are right
back on the Ed Show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. In our last segment on this
program, I asked the question what does 10,000 in Madison mean, 5,500 in
Denver, 4,000 in Minneapolis wherever Bernie Sanders goes, his drawing a
big crowd. The word "Socialist" is a dangerous word to a lot of Americans
across America, but also I think that identity politics is old school. Its
issue politics and one of the reasons why Bernie Sanders is getting all
this crowds is he cuts right to the chase on the issues. The issues of
Wall Street, the issues of corporate taxation, the issues of fair taxation,
the issues of sending your kid to college and have them come out to college
in debt $40,000-$50,000 and not being able to live the American dream.

This is what Sanders is talking, his talking about our future for the next
generation, his talking about what`s fair and what`s not fair in income and
equality and how his going to address it. This is where the country is
right now, now for some reason, he`s getting all the crowds, eventually the
poll numbers will catch up for the crowds, that`s how I see it. You win or
you`re going to call it a movement, I talked to the rest of the media
tonight.

If this was Chris Christie getting 10,000 fans, what would the corporate
media look like? If this was Jeb Bush getting 10,000 fans, what would the
headlines look like? But no, no it`s Bernie Sanders and we`ve already
label him through identity politics that his a socialist, so his not
getting the true respect.

Let me tell you something, this guy is a real danger to Hillary Clinton`s
campaign and if she doesn`t get out and do the kind of things that Bernie
is doing, hey if your all in the same team in the same party, why not do
it, if this is what the people want to hear, start making some of it.

You know, when you get something good, you know, what you do, you make more
of it. Bernie`s doing it, this guy is for real and his going to have
enough money to run his campaign, because the people right now are
following him and those are the best ambassadors you have in the political
arena.

Let`s go to the markets, we`re right back on the Ed Show.

HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC HOST: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC Market
Wrap. Stocks rise as the focus shifts to jobs, the DOW climbs 138 points,
the S&P adds 14, the NASDAQ is up by 26.

The employers added 237,000 jobs to pay rolls in the private sector in June
according to ADP more than the 218,000 economist were expecting, the
governments employment report is out tomorrow a day early to do the 4th of
July holiday.

And as you`ve been hearing the fallout from Donald Trump`s immigration
comments continues amount with Macy`s pulling Trump merchandise from its
store.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
Overnight a fire blaze through a historically black church in South
Carolina. Only the brick walls of Mount Zion A.M.E. remained. No injuries
were reported the same church was torched by the Ku Klux Klan 20 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JESSE PARKER, GREELEYVILLE SOUTH CAROLINA: We don`t know what
happened, what started the fire, we`re going to yield that to slay and call
other law enforcement officials to think out what happened out there, but
we can say right now that we will continue to pray for that church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Investigators are still determining the cause of the fire,
according to a federal law enforcement source who spoke with the associated
press, preliminary indication show the fire does not appear to be arson.
Just a few weeks ago, the governor of South Carolina Nikki Haley told NBC`s
Craig Melvin, the fire was unequivocally the result of at least four
lightning strikes that comment made earlier today.

Now Mount Zion is the eight black church to catch on fire in the last few
weeks. Four of the fires remained under investigation by authorities.

These incidents have occurred after nine black worshippers were shot and
killed in a Charleston parish. At this time there is no common cause
between the fires, but parishioners across the country remained vigilant.

Joining me tonight on our Rapid Response panel Mark Potok, Senior Fellow at
the Southern Poverty Law Center, also Rev. Mark Tyler, Senior Pastor at
Mother Bethel A.M.E. Church, great to have both of you with us tonight.

Mr. Potok, how concerned are you about this fires that there might be,
there might be some connection? And do you have any information or
anything to believe that they would be?

MARK POTOK, SR. FELLOW SPLC: Well, it`s concerning in the sense that these
fires came very rapidly, in the immediate aftermath the really hot debate
about the confederate battle flag. I know there is real rage out there on
the white supremacist`s world about this. They`re talking about things
like cultural genocide, like the ethnic cleansing of white southerners and
so on.

That said, and despite a very long history of white`s supremacists attacks
on black churches in this country, so far we really have nothing, we don`t
have a single case in which there is real evidence at least that`s been
made public that it was in factorially motivated arson. So we`re really...

SCHULTZ: All right, Reverend...

POTOK: ... this plan way in with the investigators find.

SCHULTZ: OK, but you have seen an optic in the conversation of the taking
down of the confederate flag by white supremacy by your study.

POTOK: Absolutely, I mean there`s a theory out there that`s hard to gauge,
you know, they`re talking about how the attacks on the flag will help them
recruit and so on, so there`s a lot of energy out there and a lot of it is
very negative.

SCHULTZ: OK, Reverend what is your congregation saying as black churches
around the country, it maybe just is, this a coincidence? What is your gut
feeling on this and how is this affecting your congregation?

REV. MARK TYLER, SR. PASTOR MOTHER BETHEL AME: Well, thank you Ed. First
of all for having me and so our congregation, Mother Bethel AME Church, is
actually is the founding congregation of all the AME congregations on now
five continents and 39 countries. We`re very close to Mother Emanuel.

In fact, Mother Emanuel`s founder, Bishop Morris Brown is buried at our
congregation. This is -- It really had a chilling affect on some degree
but also it is also given a chance for people to really demonstrate their
faith. People have come out to church more than normal. I think really to
be determined that they`re not going to be stopped.

I would just simply say that while it looks like the fire at Mount Zion
appears to be lightning and we hope that is not a criminal act. There is
no question as to why people would not become suspicious and begin to try
to connect the dots.

There is a long history in America with attacks on churches. We often
think of 1963 in Birmingham obviously but even within the AME Church, you
know, Mother Emanuel was taken down in 1822 and reconstruction era when AME
preachers went through South Carolina somewhere actually hanged for trying
to organize churches. Reverend Joseph DeLaine who organized to try to end
this segregation on schools had to be taken in a coffin out of South
Carolina and taken to New York just to save his life and to get him out of
that states.

So there has been a long history. So there is no wonder to me why people
would become suspicious.

SCHULTZ: Reverend, what`s the proactive move here? What should be done
moving forward? Should law enforce be paying more attention to this
churches?

TYLER: Well, I mean, first of all, congregations, one of the conversations
that we`ve been having as a denomination are Bishops have been, you know,
great and you know, insisting to pastors and to local congregations that
you have to step up which you do with regard to security.

Many churches like ours have advance security measures and but yet you
still have to be vigilant. I mean, this person did not break in, the
person in Emanuel was let in and so we have to be very cautious about, you
know, those kind of things and so that certainly part of the conversation
but, you know, I would reiterate that what we don`t want is to allow fear
to drive us. You know, we continue to preach and believe in the church
that we walk by faith and not by sight and that the moment you allow fear
to dictate your steps then you`ve already lose the battle.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Mr. Potok, is your organization see non-church-related-
hate crimes since the Charleston shooting?

POTOK: Well, no, not in particular. I wouldn`t say that we`ve seen a big
outbreak of hate crimes.

It seems very possible of course, what we do see as a clan group is trying
very much to take advantage of this. As you probably know, there is a
particular group, the Loyal White Knights, The Ku Klux Klan who are saying
they`re coming to Charleston on July 18th to demonstrate.

You know, this is an example of these kinds of groups trying to but
essentially get publicity make hay while sunshine saying, no that by going
to Charleston, they will get national and even international press and
that`s really what they`re looking for.

SCHULTZ: All right, Mark Potok and Reverend Mark Tyler, I appreciate your
time tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.

Still ahead on the Ed Show, the United States moves forward with plans to
reopen relations with Cuba. We`ll have a reaction to the Embassy
announcement.

Stay tuned, more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: All right and the number keep coming in on the Ed Show. Here are
the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse Poll. Tonight`s question, "Should
vaccinations be mandatory?"

Now, 60 percent of you say "Yes". 40 percent of you say "No". You could
keep on voting here on the Ed Show to the end of the hour at
pulse.msnbc.com/ED.

We are coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And at tonight`s Two-Minute Drill, financial planning. I mean,
it is payday for former New York Mets Bobby Bonilla. The 52-year-old has
played professional baseball since 2001. It`s been a while. But you see
Bonilla still collects a check from one of his former teams.

In 2000, the New York Mets wanted to buy out but last year Bonilla`s
contract instead of paying him, the almost $6 million that he was owed on
the contract. Well, they made a deal to defer the payments, by the way,
with interest.

Since 2011, the team has cut Bonilla a check for $1.2 million every July
1st and they`ll keep paying him until 2035. Now, that`s a retirement
package. Bonilla currently earns more per year than current Met stars like
Matt Harvey and Jacob deGrom.

The U.S. Women soccer team is headed to the World Cup Finals. Team USA
beat Germany two to nothing.

In Tuesday night`s semi-final game Carli Lloyd and Kelly O`Hara, both had
goals on the night. It`s the third straight game, the American team held
their opponent scoreless. They`ll face the winner of tonight`s match up
between Japan and England. The World Cup Final game takes place Sunday in
beautiful Vancouver.

Stick Around. There is a lot more coming up at the Ed Show right after
this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And our final story tonight here on the Ed Show. The United
States in Cuba have taken a major step forward in ending decades of
division. Earlier today, President Obama announced the reopening of the
United States in Cuban embassies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The progress that we marked today is yet another demonstration that
we don`t have to be imprisoned by the past. When something isn`t working,
we can and will change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Secretary of State John Kerry will travel to Havana for the
opening of the U.S. embassy next month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: This transition, this moment in history,
is taking place because President Obama made a personal, fundamental
decision to change a policy that didn`t work and that had been in place not
working for far too long. I believe that`s leadership, and I appreciate
that leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Vice President Joe Biden wrote on Twitter calling the move a
"Game-changer". On the flipside, some of the most outspoken opposition is
coming from the GOP presidential hopefuls.

Florida Senator Marco Rubio, son of Cuban immigrants issued a statement
saying in part as the Castro regime has stepped up its repression of the
Cuban people, the Obama administration has continued to look the other way
and offer concession after concession.

Chris Christie reacted during a stop in Portland, Maine today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE 2016: I oppose it. I think it`s a
bad decision and I urge Congress to do it wherever it can do to make sure
that it doesn`t move forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got two more questions.

CHRISTIE: Including funding, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Jeb Bush also released a statement reacting to the news. He
wrote end part, I oppose the decision to further embrace the Castro regime
by opening an embassy in Havana.

The United States in Cuba have been negotiating since President Obama`s
December 17th announcement about restoring ties with Cuba.

Joining me now is Ricardo Herrero who was the Executive Director of
CubaNow. Also with us tonight, former Florida State Representative Ana
Rivas Logan, great to have both of you with us.

RICARDO HERRERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR #CUBANOW: Thank for having me.

SCHULTZ: Ana, let me ask you first, what is the popular thinking in
Florida about this? Is this a big political divider?

ANA RIVAS LOGAN, FRM. FLORIDA STATE REP.: Yes and no. It is among the
hardliners but, you know, we know that the hardliners are not going to
support President Obama on anything he does. However, I am hearing more
and more from the residence of South Florida that they want to visit Cuba
that they`d like to go to Cuba and as a daughter of Cuban immigrants I
would like to one day be able to go to Cuba.

SCHULTZ: Ric, your reaction to today`s announcement, President Obama plan
this it`s on schedule and it`s moving forward, a lot of people were in
denial that this was actually going to happen, how big is step is this?

HERRERO: It`s a momentous stop in the right direction, and one that takes
us away from a 50 year old policy of confrontation, of isolation and
instead towards a policy that`s focus on helping to empower the Cuban
people to increase the flow of contacts, resources capital from the United
States to the Cuban people and at the same time advance our interest inside
that island.

SCHULTZ: Is this is all about Ric winning over the next generation, I mean
the harsh words coming from the republicans kind of mix into that question,
what about that?

HERRERO: Yeah. Well, I mean, you`re seeing the Republicans positions
themselves because they all have a Florida primary coming up not too long
from now. And so to secure the South Florida vote among the Republican
base which is largely elderly Cuban-Americans are going to take this
position. But what we`ve seen over the last decade is that a growing
number of Cuban-Americans quite, quite a majority actually including second
generation Cuban-Americans and recently arrived Cuban-Americans are in
favor of policy of engagement. They see the value of traveling to the
island of increasing the floor resources to the brothers and sisters down
there. And so they are largely supported of this policy.

SCHULTZ: What about the 2016 race, how political are the statements and a
coming from the Republicans?

LOGAN: Well, once again as Ric said and his actually correct, you know,
these candidates have to win a primary and they have to win a Republican
primary in the state of Florida. And the large elderly Cuban population
are very hardliners and a very few of them have moved towards engagement.

However, I`m seeing more and more and more a softening of some of those
hardliners and definitely the younger generation the second and third
generation is a complete...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

LOGAN: ... with different ball game. But they don`t vote in primaries.
They don`t get out to vote in primary`s the younger vote is a general
election vote. So, these candidates are definitely, you know, kept telling
to the elderly Cuban hardliners that they`re going to help them win a
primary in the State of Florida.

SCHULTZ: What is futuristic Ric about what the Republicans are saying
about this opening of the embassy? I mean, it`s like they can`t even
fathom the next generation this younger -- the younger demographics are
going to really it really enjoy the benefits of this in the next
generation, why can`t the Republicans just embrace that and realize that
this is a generational move, because that`s really what it is.

HERRERO: Well, if any of them wanted to actually show some leadership they
would but I think they are more concern about the immediate math of the
Florida primary. So they know that the folks are going to turn out during
the Republican base are the elderly Cuban-Americans of the one`s that lost
everything 50 years ago and still at maintain very strong emotionally
charge positions towards this issue.

And their not really going to take into account the younger Cuban-Americans
who respect the views of their -- the generations that came before them and
no way more sympathetic towards the cast to regime but that just simply,
you know, were folks that don`t see the old policy getting anywhere and we
haven`t, we`ve been living our entire lives under it and we`ve seen a yield
zero results.

So, I think those candidates their not looking to lead their looking to
just do whatever it takes to win and that`s what we`re going to see for the
next few months, hopefully after the primary we`ll see some common sense
inserted into their discourse over Cuba policy.

SCHULTZ: Well, as Cuban now executive director have you seen a softening
of the hearts of any of the older generation Cubans?

HERRERO: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: I mean as there been since President Obama as he softens the
heart of a lot of this folks in South Florida at all?

HERRERO: Absolutely, you see it even within the Republican base you see it
in all levels of the Cuban exile community. A lot of folks are just coming
around to realizing that after 50 years of trying one approach that yields
no results, it`s time to try something new and they see the value of
engagement they see the value of...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HERRERO: ... seating down and try to negotiate a better future for the
Cuban people.

SCHULTZ: Right.

HERRERO: And so they are supporter of this policy.

SCHULTZ: Ric Herrero, Ana Rivas Logan, great to have you with us tonight I
appreciate it and I`m all for the embassy in Havana. I think it is the
right thing to do and as for the next generation. I`m off to Madison,
Wisconsin tonight to cover the Bernie Sanders rally. We`ll have a full
report tomorrow night of the Ed Show.

That is the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Rev. Al Sharpton starts now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
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