The Ed Show for Tuesday, July 7th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Tuesday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: July 7, 2015
Guest: Dick Harpootlian, E.J. Dionne, Kathy Miller, Don McLeroy, Angela
Rye, Lili Benard, Gloria Allred, Larry Cohen
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans welcome to the Ed Show live
from New York. I am Ari Melber in for Ed Schultz, as Ed would say "Let`s
get to work."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Tonight, Hillary feels the Bern.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) PRESIDENTIAL: In case you didn`t notice, this
is a big turnoff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not worried about Bernie Sanders right now?
JENNIFER PALMIERI, COMM. DIRECTOR HILLARY FOR AMERICA: No aren`t
(inaudible) to election.
SANDERS: They should be worry a bit. We`re doing very, very well.
MELBER: Plus, new Cosby revelation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The comedian admits obtaining sedatives to use on
women he wanted to have sex with.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think this is really just the beginning.
MELBER: And Democrats court labor.
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It is important to look at
the linkage between wages and union representation.
SANDERS: Workers standing up and fighting for their rights in joining
unions. That`s the way (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Its official, Hillary Clinton`s campaign is sweating Bernie
Sanders booming crowds and enlarging poll numbers. Last night Sanders pack
an area in Portland, Maine with 7,500 supporters on Friday over 2,500
showed up to see him in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Think about this in
comparison. Martin O`Malley he`s largest crowd in Iowa was only 70 on
These crowds are starting to translate as well into real poll numbers for
Sanders. The recent Quinnipiac poll just Clinton lead there down to 19
points in Iowa. It was 45 points in May and 56 points in February.
Overall Sanders has made up essentially 37 points on Clinton since
February. Now there`s little doubt even among Clinton campaign strategist
had Sanders poses a real treat in Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALMIERI: We`re worried about him, sure. He`s a force. He, you know,
he`ll be a serious force to the campaign and we think that will -- I don`t
think that will, you know, diminish. This is an election and he is doing
well and we`ll have, you know, such make our case. But we knew this is
going to happen, you know, no. I mean, Iowa caucus know -- when other than
incumbent or Tom Harkin has ever gotten more than 50 percent of the vote.
So, yeah it`s going to be slug but we feel like we -- I feel like she will
win. I feel like she`ll prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBEL: Do that sound to you like expectation measurement for coming in
under 50 points. Well, Bernie Sanders maybe hearing it too and he said the
Clinton campaign last night is right to be worried about his momentum.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Well, they should be worry a bit. We`re doing very, very well.
We have had meetings all over the state of Iowa. The turnout has been
great. We`re now focusing on how you win the rather complicated caucus
process in Iowa. We`re getting support from trade unionist. We`re getting
support from students. We`re getting support all across the spectrum and
I`m feeling very good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Hillary Clinton meanwhile was out campaigning in Iowa today
working to hold on to what she thinks is her lead. She spoke to group of
voters in Iowa City Public Library. She attended a house party in Ottumwa.
And Clinton was asked about Bernie`s recent progress in the state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Bernie Sanders has been doing big events here
in Iowa. He`s rising in the polls. Wondering how you are feeling about
the growing momentum he`s seeing there and what you are going to be doing
in Iowa about that?
CLINTON: Well, I`m doing exactly what I want to do in Iowa. We`ve been in
the campaign little less than three months. It`ll be three months on
Sunday. And I am having the opportunity to meet with and listen to Iowans
across the state and find out what`s on their mind, find out what they`re
worried about, what they`re hoping for. And I think that`s the strongest
base on which to build a good campaign heading toward the caucuses.
I also think look, you know, this is going to be competitive. It should be
competitive. It`s only the presidency of the United States we`re talking
about. So, you know, the more the better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: It may also be competitive for Sanders and Clinton together in New
Hampshire. A recent CNN poll has Clinton up by only 8 points there in the
Granite State. And all these recent polls suggest voters are shying away
from any kind of coronation for Hillary Clinton. Now, what is that mean?
Well, politics has always a game of choices. This could be an opportunity
for some other candidates to jump into this race. A recent Wall Street
Journal report made a lot of ways when it said "Essentially there`s no
secret that the late Beau Biden was urging his father to run. And with an
opening in the numbers politically that may pave the way for a lot of
different Democrats including Joe Biden to think about getting in this big
Hillary Clinton race.
All right, get your cellphones out. We always want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question, "Does the Bernie Sanders surge provide an opening for
someone like Joe Biden to run for president?" Go to pulse.msnbc.com/ED to
cast your vote. We`re going to bring the result later on and throughout
And for more, let`s get right to it. Dick Harpootlian as an attorney, and
former South Carolina Democratic Party Chair who knows a lot of these
players, and E.J. Dionne Washington Post Columnist and of course MSNBC
contributor. Thanks for joining me tonight, gentlemen.
E.J. DIONNE, COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: Good to be with you.
MELBER: Dick, you have talked to a lot of these folks, you are quoted in
that article that made a lot of waves of course. At a basic political
level, is it your view or do you know whether folks like Joe Biden in his
age or other big name Democrats are looking at Bernie and thinking Hillary
Clinton is more vulnerable than we thought and should be challenged.
DICK HARPOOTLIAN, FMR. PARTY CHAIR, SC DEM.: Well, I haven`t -- I have no
inside information from the Biden camp. As we all know, vice presidents
take some time to think about his family and other issue rather than
politics. However, there`s no question from some of the folks I talked to
in D.C. and in South Carolina that, you know, Hillary Clinton in 2008 was
allegedly inevitable. That was the sort of the story this year. And most
of the folks are saying you can only be inevitable once.
HARPOOTLIAN: And they`re beginning to look -- they`re beginning to look at
all the candidates including the vice president because they`re looking for
-- some sort of competitive rise at the minimum, or at the maximum,
somebody like me, I believe Joe Biden would be a better candidate and a
better president than Hillary Clinton, and I would love for him to get into
MELBER: Well, E.J., let me go to you. I don`t want to insert myself in a
comparison with either of you, but I am a younger pop, I do not have the
experience in politics neither of you have, but I am old enough to remember
the last time Hillary Clinton was inevitable and I think a lot of Democrats
are as well.
So E.J., is there any kind of feeling here that the more they talk about
her being anointed, the more there is a palpable look for other
DIONNE: I think it`s terrible for a candidate to be talked about as
anointed probably, particularly in the Democratic Party because there`s an
automatic reaction against that, and people, voters do not want to say that
their candidate is man-picked for them before they cast ballots.
And in terms of Joe Biden getting in, I am still -- I think he`d love to
run. I am in kind of think he won`t. And I think to say the Bernie surge
suggest an opening really suggest that the votes for Bernie are primarily
negative against Hillary Clinton, whereas I think this is a Bernie Sanders
I think that there are a lot of people on the progressive wing of the
Democratic Party who wants somebody saying what he`s saying. I think
beyond them, there is a resonance to his saying that both the economic and
political establishments have failed. A lot of people.
DIONNE: . believe that. And he showed a lot of concrete proposals.
MELBER: But E.J., let me.
DIONNE: . so I think.
MELBER: . let me push you on that, because I don`t...
DIONNE: It`s a useful challenge to her.
MELBER: I don`t -- yeah, I don`t mean to suggest that Bernie Sanders, who
has a long record of public service here, is just some sort of placeholder.
Well, as you know, when you talk to party elites, E.J., in Washington,
there`s a feeling among Democrats, the money class, the organizer class,
everyone who is involved with the Obama campaign at a senior level, what
you hear from them is whatever you thought about her, she has earned it, it
is her turn. And I hear that from people off the record who worked very
hard against her early on in Obama when they were the underdogs. That is
the feeling at the elite level.
I guess what we`re asking, E.J., is whether the grassroots level, the
excitement around Bernie shows there isn`t that same feeling of a chit to
be cashed in.
DIONNE: Oh, I agree with that totally. And I think a lot of the people
who say stuff like that are simply for Hillary Clinton. In other words,
it`s not just because she`s waited around eight years.
There were a lot of people who voted for Obama the last time who also
wanted to vote for Clinton. I mean, that was a very positive campaign back
in 2008. But I think that what a lot of even Clinton`s supporters are
longing for is her creating more of a sense of enthusiasm, and you`re
seeing that with Bernie Sanders in those crowds.
And I think what Clinton is going to be trying to do over the next four to
six weeks is giving a lot of concrete speeches, laying out proposals the
way Sander has been laying out proposals, particularly on the economy and
particularly talking about inequality. She is going to try -- she`s going
to sound a little bit like Bernie in the next few weeks I think.
MELBER: And Dick, when you look at the New Hampshire primary numbers here,
the early polling is very early. It doesn`t show you a lot. But the
tightening is pretty clear there. Hillary Clinton, 43, Bernie Sanders, 35.
We played this out in the open of Jen Palmieri, who of course left her
White House Obama job to take over the Clinton message machine, basically
trying to spin the fact that coming in under 50 points in Iowa would be
just fine, everybody does it and goes on to win. Can they make that
argument in Iowa and New Hampshire then all the South Carolina where you
know? At what point does the Clinton expectations game get them into
HARPOOTLIAN: Well, I think the problem again is there`s an inevitability
that she is -- she`s got it wrapped up and nobody else ought to get in.
And Bernie Sanders -- and I thought it was stunning a moment ago to hear
Hillary Clinton say she`s traveling around Iowa, listing the folks, this
was a listing tour. Whereas, Bernie Sanders is going around saying, "I
don`t have to listen to you. I know what your problems are. They`re the
same problems I have in New Hampshire and South Carolina and elsewhere.
And it`s about income inequality, it`s about folks like Hillary Clinton and
others, wealthy people who don`t really -- can`t really share your pain."
And he`s resonating.
And I think this is more about -- and I would just agree with Mr. Dionne, I
think this is about her. This is not so much about Bernie, and I`ve met
him and he was here a couple of months ago, and he`s a very articulate guy.
But she`s not resonating, he is. I think if Joe Biden got into this race,
he would resonate just like Bernie Sanders, only better.
MELBER: Yeah. And that`s the big question. And given some of your
criticism review points there, I just want to remind our audience, we`ve
invited Hillary Clinton and her staff to come on MSNBC. We look forward to
interviewing Hillary and having her on, and she does more media, and get
all of the other sides here as well. Dick Harpootlian and E.J. Dionne,
thanks for joining tonight.
DIONNE: Great to be with you.
HARPOOTLIAN: Thank you.
MELBER: And on the same topic, of course, we want to hear from you.
Answer tonight`s question at pulse.msnbc.com/ED. We are going to have the
results for you throughout the hour.
Now, coming up, Texas textbooks getting a rewrite and many accusing the
States Board of Education of essentially whitewashing some of the history.
We`ll have the details next.
And pretty interesting story later, some new revelations about Bill Cosby`s
alleged sexual misconduct. Very excited to do this segment. We`re going
to have reaction from Lawyer Gloria Allred and one of Cosby`s accusers as
well as an original prosecutor on the case next.
MELBER: The recent battle over the Confederate flag stirred passions over
our history. How we understand it, how we honor it and how we teach it.
The issues of course go wavy on the flag.
In the news in Texas today is the 5 million public schools students will
get new textbooks this fall that carry a pretty slanted view of the Civil
War. This is all because the Texas State Board of Educations set some new
standards that was back in 2010 and they`re casting the Civil War in terms
many simply wouldn`t recognize saying the conflict was caused by
"Sectionalism, states rights and slavery". It`s written in that order to
cast slavery as a secondary issue at least according to some members of the
State Board of Education. And the books don`t even mentioned Ku Klux Clan
or Jim Crow Laws at all.
Now, Rod Paige who was a Republican who served as Education Secretary for
George W. Bush is pushing back on the standards saying they`ve swung too
far to the ideological right and they`re diminishing the importance of
Civil Rights as well as the role of slavery, of course, in our history.
Others are defending this type of revisionism or Republican member of that
board. They`re saying "There would be those who would say the reason for
the Civil War was over slavery. No, it was over states` rights."
In 2014, Texas Tech`s student political organization PoliTech asked fellow
students on campus who won the Civil War.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who won the Civil War?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did, the South.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like the one in 1965 or what Civil War?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who won it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was even in it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Lot of answers to the tough question there. Joining me now Kathy
Miller, President of the Texas Freedom Network Group, which is against of
course the textbook and also Don McLeroy, a Former Texas Board of Education
Welcome to you both.
Don, how does this process work? Is it working?
DON MCLEROY, FMR. TEXAS BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBER: Well, the process work
just fine. It -- we have review committees where -- that look at the
texts. They make recommendations and then the board will look at their
recommendations and we`ll make changes and make amendments.
I realized we had a problem right at the very beginning. Now, I had kind
of canary in the coal mine standard that was the 8th grade U.S. History 8C
(ph) and our current standards that we had before. We passed the new ones
and it -- all it said was students are described religions role in the
Foundational Republic that we had.
And when you look at the, you know (ph), got the new standards, the first
work from this review committees, they had deleted that standard, the role
of religion, the -- and I was stunned and I realized there was going to be
a battle in our hands and we did have a battle.
MELBER: Kathy, your thoughts. I mean, it doesn`t mean that it`s working
just because it`s getting any old outcome. It would seem that you`ve want
to navigate between -- whatever the good faith disagreements may be, what
we teach our children`s always going to be some matter of controversy but
it`s got to be factual too, right?
KATHY MILLER, PRESIDENT, TEXAS FREEDOM NETWORK: That`s exactly right. The
problem is that politicians are making the decision about what gets taught
in history class instead of looking at our teachers and historians and
scholars. Dr. McLeroy is not a historian and his personal political
beliefs should not dictate what our kids learn in school.
The issue of the Confederacy was a very contentious point with many board
members, the majority in fact, asserting that states` rights was the
central cause of the Civil War ignoring the fact that the rights states
were fighting for was the right to buy and sell human beings in slavery.
MELBER: Don, on the Jim Crow front (ph), do you think that should be in
the history books?
MCLEROY: I don`t have any problem if it was into Jim Crow, the KKK. One
of the greatest criticisms the board got was the fact that we had too many
standards, just too many requirements in there, there -- too much to teach.
Its fine (ph) to me to teach, they still can be taught.
I have no problem. I think, we need to teach all the real history. What`s
interesting about the causes of the Civil War, we never really discussed it
I know some board members made comment, but our review committees, the ones
that Kathy just talked about that we need to listen to back in the 7th
grade history course for Texas history, they did not put slavery listed
first either. They had states rights ahead of slavery. It was just the
nine (ph) issue. Slavery was included.
The biggest Ricky Morrow, we ever got over slavery was in economic standard
an 8th grade early U.S. history. And what the standard said, it said that
growth of the slave trade and the role of slavery. Had slavery mentioned
in the standard?
A motion was made in January of 2010 to change the slave trade -- growth of
the slave trade to something like Atlantic Triangular Trade.
There was no comment. In March, two months later, there was no comment,
there was no objection, there was no newspaper stories and then all of the
sudden, right before our May adoption way of adopted, there was a big hoop-
law (ph) about us trying to say where we`re down playing slavery.
And was so amazing is when that issue was brought up, we put the word
slavery back in there. We changed it to something that the triangular
slave trade. So, we ended up with slave and slavery both words in the same
standard. I don`t -- how in the word that could be construed as trying to
downplay slavery is beyond the -- weren`t really never discussed this.
MELBER: So, Kathy, what is your response to that? Yeah. Don`s basically
saying that it seems like outside forces or I guess, potentially, the media
has made the bigger issue of this and they`re not actually trying to
MILLER: Two things. First of all, the outside forces were historians,
people with expertise in the subject matter that were able to review what
was being proposed in the curriculum standards and brought forth their
concerns. But more importantly, this country is embroiled in a debate
about how to talk about the Confederacy and whether government and
universities honor the Confederate flag. We would not be having that
debate if we haven`t, for generations, taught incorrectly about the causes
of the Civil War.
And today, we should really looked at what we teach our kids and ensure
that it`s not motivated by politics but it`s motivated by truth and that`s
the problem I have with politicians like Mr. McLeroy and others who want to
weight in with their own political opinion on these matters instead of
really relying on people with expertise and teachers in our classrooms.
MELBER: Right. And Mr. McLeroy, why do you think that it is important to
at least some of the members because I read one of the statements earlier
to say that the Civil War was not primarily fought over slavery. Why is
that the issue here?
MCLEROY: That was the issue mainly because some board members said it not
at the board meeting or they did say that at the board meeting that had no
impact. We never debated it. We had long debates on all our history
So, I, myself, personally, think slavery has to be one of the primary
reason for the Civil War. And I think our students are going to learn
that. They`re going to find out about it. And like I said, even the
review teams that she is talking about, the panels that we authorized these
experts that she is talking about, they also, if you go to Texas history,
you`ll see on the causes of the Civil War, they listed states` rights ahead
MELBER: All right. Well, look, I`ll be willing to talk to you both to get
the perspective from the ground. These stories obviously getting a lot of
attention and with the Confederate flag debates. Very interesting to see
how the history and the debates are still with us.
Kathy Miller and Don McLeroy, thanks for your time.
MILLER: Thank you very much.
MCLEROY: Thank you.
MELBER: Still ahead, newly released court documents shedding new light on
Bill Cosby`s alleged sexual misconduct. We are going to look at how it
could impact he`s future legal standing and whether he could face new
Next, Paula Deen also has some explaining to do. We`ll tell you when the
TV just latest Tweet as her (ph) in hot water all over again. Stay tuned.
MELBER: Celebrity Chef Paula Deen`s official Twitter account posted a
transformation Tuesday photo and the picture is of her dressed as Lucille
Ball from "I Love Lucy". On her side, were her former producer, Gordon
Elliott and her son, Bobby Deen dressed as Ricky Ricardo and it gets worse.
He`s in some sort of "Brownface". If you see there, take a good look
that`s not what he normally looks like.
Now, this picture itself is not believed to be new its reportedly from 2011
Halloween episode and representative for Deen told NBC`s today show in his
statement, "Paula immediately had this picture taken down as soon as she
saw the post and apologizes to all were offended. As such, Paula Deen
Ventures has terminated their relationship with the social media manager."
Deen says she didn`t post the photo but the misstep is pretty odd, given
her recent history in 2013 of course. Deen lost nearly all of her business
relationships after a former employee sued in a suit that claim, she`d hire
black waiters to dress like quote, slaves, according to the suit for a
plantation themed (ph) wedding event. Then during the core proceedings,
Deen admitted to having used the N word on multiple occasions. Now the
judge throughout the racial discrimination lawsuit against her but a
corporate sponsor is all bailed.
Today`s post got of course immediate backlash on social media that was
genuine outrage and there was also just withering mockery. One of the best
lines we saw here, the newsroom came from Mike Hinson writing, "Paula
Deen`s PR team is literally just three sticks of butter in a trenchcoat."
Angela Rye is a political strategist and much more than just butter.
How are you?
ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: I am quite well Ari, but Paula Deen is
not. Neither as our brand.
MELBER: She`s not well, she`s taken it on the chin before. I guess we`ll
start with the fact that the problem wasn`t just the tweeting so somebody
lost their job over putting the photo out. But the problem was, this sort
of photo exist because they used to dress up in brown face.
RYE: Right. And as you said this was from an old episode and this was for
Halloween, I think. You know, what offensive about Paula Deen and her
history is the fact that even in the statement she says, "I`m sorry to all
those who were offended not that this was offensive." So she still hasn`t
come to terms with the fact that racism is alive and well because of people
like her. The fact that black face, and brown face, and yellow face and
all of its ugly history is just as offensive today Ari and in the
Confederate flag and that is something that Paula Deen needs to begin to
own otherwise, she should not have any limelight or even a Twitter account
at this point.
MELBER: And so, just walk people through, how it is that in modern times
they are just few years ago 2011, someone thinks that that kind of black or
brown face is a good call, you know, what are they thinking? I guess what
RYE: I think they`re not. The issue is when you surround yourselves with
a bunch of people who look like you and think like you and you have no
diverse groups of friends and I think -- Ari, we know this right? When you
surround yourselves with people who have had challenging experiences that
are different than yours, you learn from those and I think what its
abundantly clear from Paula Deen`s behavior now and then and then meaning
2013 and even then 2011 for Halloween costume wearing, if she doesn`t
surround herself with anyone else who had alternate views, anyone else who
can tell her, "I`m not just offended by this but this is offensive behavior
that you should never engage in." And I think it`s real challenging if she
continues down this path.
MELBER: But, what does it tell you that a lot of these brands and others
were willing to stick by her? It may have been some kind of open secret.
It`s only when there`s a lawsuit which is force or social media which seems
to leak out things that people realize that there`s a problem.
RYE: Yeah and I think, you know, it goes to show also since this is an old
picture from 2011 and there was no huge backlash, then I certainly don`t
remember hearing anything about a brown face issue in 2011, I think it also
tells you that, you know, when times change and when where a little more
sensitive, the reality of trolls and jests happening the other day, I think
I have everything to do with.
RYE: The number of brands that are pulling back from Donald Trump. And I
think that we`re starting to see that thing type of outreach today on
Twitter because of what happened with Paula Deen, we`re already sensitive
to the fact that she would do something like this so it made that behavior
that much more agree just today and we need to stay sensitive.
RYE: Doing things and not just in times like these.
MELBER: I think that`s a great point because obviously if people saw it
aired back ten and this only four years later, but on some issues, four
years is a long time.
Angela Rye, thanks for joining.
RYE: Thanks Ari.
MELBER: Still to come here on the Ed Show, that big revelation from Bill
Cosby. We`re going to look at what it means for potential new charges
against him. Stay tuned.
HAMPTON PEARSON, CNBC HOST: I`m Hampton Pearson with your CNBC Market
Stocks end higher across the board, the DOW climbs 93 points, the S&P adds
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MELBER: Now we turn to that major breakthrough in the story of allegations
against Bill Cosby. Now in just minutes, we`re going to hear directly form
one of his accusers as well as a former prosecutor who may have some
insights into how the criminal charges could work against this famous
Now here, is the background. Thanks to a lawsuit form the AP, a court just
released testimony from Cosby that for the first time ever, reveals him
admitting to obtaining sedatives with the intent of drugging women for sex,
it`s all from a 2005 civilsuit from a woman who accuses Cosby of drugging
and sexually assaulting her, now Cosby was not charge in that case we`re
suppose to hear from the prosecutor who investigated it later this hour,
Cosby`s lawyer fought to keep the legal deposition sealed for the past 10
years saying the revelation would be embarrassing for the comedian.
Now there has been further fallout for Cosby commercially, two networks
announcing their pulling he`s syndicated shows this week, but the bigger
question many are asking as whether this new admission will lead to further
accountability for Cosby in court. Now we should notice part of our
reporting here NBC News has repeatedly reach out the Cosby representatives
for comment, his spokesperson say he has no comment right now. We also
want to know that Cosby has generally denied these types of charges and not
been charge with the crime and connection with that.
All right, joining me now is Lili Benard who alleged Bill Cosby assaulted
her and Gloria Allred attorney representing the case, good evening to both
LILI BERNARD, ACTRESS, BILL COSBY ASSAULTED HER: Good evening Ari.
GLORIA ALLRED, CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER: Good evening.
MELBER: Lily, what did you think when you first heard about this
disclosure this week, and does any of it match any of your experience?
BERNARD: When I first felt the a sensitive vindication and all I can speak
is from my perspective and I hope that other people are also able to see
that there are certain characteristics that are hallmarks to rapist who
clandestinely drug their victims in order to incapacitate us and to detain
us. And those characteristics are cowardice and depravity. And I have
first hand knowledge of those characteristics of Bill Cosby which are
cowardice and depravity, because I was drug and raped by Bill Cosby.
MELBER: The specific admission here that he makes back in 2005 now
discloses for the first time, is that he obtained Quaaludes with the intent
to use them to have sex with women. In your case do you have any way of
knowing whether that was the drug that that as you alleged with was used on
BERNARD: I have no way of knowing because he drug me without my knowledge,
he must have slipped the drug in the apple cider that he gave to me and
that he made me drink and within a very short while the room begins
spinning and I was unable to move my body the way I normally was able to, I
was conscious however, my arms felt very heavy like lead and when I try to
move them they felt like rubber, as I scream for help and he told me to
shut up and covered my mouth with his hand. I was unable to push his hand
away, because of the drug think capacitating my body. And when I continue
to scream and then he then push the pillow into my face suffocating me to
silence my scream. I was yet unable to push the pillow away from my face
and was terrifying. It was bondage, being drugs.
MELBER: And Lili, I know this is a difficult to talk about so I appreciate
your walking us through it. When you look at this situation a lot of folks
as you well know better than many, took Bill Cosby side, defended him,
attack some of the women who made this allegations, looking at this now do
you feel this is a turning point, do have anything to say that those people
given that now there`s evidence that Bill Cosby himself was admitting to at
least part of the pattern of behavior that that you and other alleged?
BERNARD: Yeah, absolutely. I would like to say to them that I empathize
with them because I too was deeply betrayed by Bill Cosby and that he
mentored me for a long period before he drug and raped me. He entrusted
me. He entrusted me to him and it was this terrible sense of betrayal so I
understand how those people whom, who`ve also had relationships with him
that have been positive feel a terrible sense of betrayal and it takes a
lot of courage, you know, for people like Jill Scott to be able to say that
they were (inaudible), you know, so I have nothing but empathy for those
BERNARD: But the same thing was true for me.
MELBER: And Gloria looking at this legally does anything that has now been
revealed just this week change or add to cases that can be brought?
ALLRED: Well, absolutely. And let me just say first that Lili Bernard my
client is a very, very brave women to have come forward and I just commend
her for that. And also of course I do represent Judy Huth in her lawsuit
against Bill Cosby, wherein she alleges that she was 15 years old when Mr.
Cosby committed an act of sexual misconduct against her at the Playboy
Mr. Cosby has been attempting to get this case throw out the court, he was
unsuccessful at the trial level, he then filed a writ with the California
Court of Appeals who declined to review so he is unsuccessful with them,
his now -- them were we take his deposition in my office on June 26, but he
fought the petition with the California Supreme Court, so we had to
continue the deposition. Our case is now pending before the California
Supreme Court and it`s a very important case.
The only case in the nation in fact against Mr. Cosby where it really goes
to the heart of what did he do what he did not do it`s not a defamation
case, and it`s a case alleging child sexual abuse so it`s very serious, any
allegation of sexual abuse even adult is very serious. Even more serious
once the case of trial sexual abuse, so we`re looking forward to what the
California Supreme Court is going to decide in this case we hope we can
move forward, Mr. Cosby has been trying to hide the truth for way too long
and we`re very glad this new deposition was finally made public.
MELBER: And a final question Gloria, I spoke to Bruce Caster earlier today
who of course was the prosecutor then the investigated the underline claims
in the newly released deposition. He`s actually running for DA and says
that their might be a perjury prosecution available base on the deposition
which carries up to 7 years potential prison in Pennsylvania, do you see
anything like that possible, do you think in your view as a, as an expert
involved in this cases that there`s a route wherein Bill Cosby could be
prosecuted end up in jail?
ALLRED: Well, I wouldn`t want to make that accusation or reach that
conclusion in less and I until I could really see the full context of what
Mr. Cosby said, you know, and why it would be considered not to be true, so
I really don`t know. I will say this, I intend to use his statements in
the deposition, when I take my deposition of Mr. Cosby in the case of Judy
Huth and I`m looking forward to that day when I could that and I asked him
more about allegations that he drug the women and that day I hope it will
come soon because Judy Huth really wants to have her day in court and her
case is so important not only to her but to all the women as well.
MELBER: Understood, Gloria Allred and Lili Bernard. I appreciate you both
making time on, on what we know to be such a difficult story.
ALLRED: Thank you Ari, thank you.
BERNARD: Thank you.
MELBER: Thank you. Bill Cosby`s list of accusations does span in decades,
the first allegation happened in 1965 with then 22 year old women named
Kristina Ruehli met Cosby while working at a talent agency and told
Philadelphia magazine, she passed out after drinking a cocktail in his
house, she alleged that when she came to Cosby attempted to force her into
oral sex. And the most recent alleged incident that we know about publicly
allegedly occur in 2008 Chloe Goins saying that Cosby drug her in a
partying California before assaulting her about three dozen women have come
forward accusing Cosby of misconduct in all.
We want to turn to John Zack a former federal prosecutor who can speak
about the timing issues here. If you have case like this where many of the
underlying acts are all, putting aside statute of limitations which simply
borrow (ph) some of this, in certain states they may still be available.
How the prosecutors wrecking with crimes that or alleged crimes that are so
JOHN ZACK, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, in this context they wrecking
from a very specific way which is the rules of evidence haven`t expand of
approach to into reducing this type of prior misconduct and into sexual
assault context and they`re allowed to admit this type of evidence in any
new case for a wide of variety purposes than you otherwise would be for
other all the types of misconducts. So, this is type of older deeds can be
very useful and bringing a new case. Assuming it`s a timely case.
MELBER: The, the local prosecutors have looked at these issues have
generally said that because of the time, the delay and a lacked of physical
forensic evidence they didn`t feel they met the standard to move forward.
Base on what you know do you think that is correct or do you think he had
somehow got to some softer treatment?
ZACK: Well look, those types of decisions are made by prosecutors and you
really have to have fully appreciate the evidence if you`re going to, to
make that call. So I don`t know that I can make that call seating here.
But what I can say is if you have admission like this that`s on the record.
It`s a piece of evidence that`s very helpful to you in making that decision
and so, if you were a prosecutor sooner today and you were looking at what,
you know, what your file had in there. This is something that you would
focus and you would think with way in favor of bringing the charge.
MELBER: Now you are a federal prosecutor and you work on racketeering and
conspiracy cases, how would you take that kind of admission and in this
instance because people are looking at home going "OK.. Well, now it seems
like the cats (ph) have back." Now he said it, his admitted it and under
oath how would you use that in any way in another case?
ZACK: Well so, you know, that type of admission is kind of goal a
prosecutor because it`s admission by the defendant so it`s admissible for
any purpose in the trial, so you know if you`re given that piece of
evidence that, my case I`m going to have this with me. I`m going to be
able to show it to the jury. I`m going to be able to say that this guy
MELBER: So just to slow that down John -- when you say any purpose what
are the examples you are think?
ZACK: So you know when a statement from a defendant just comes in a
criminal trial as long it`s relevant and because you have a deposition
transcript it`s there, it`s in on his own words you really can`t attack
because it`s a fixed thing.
MELBER: So and we`re waiting and mentioned this in terms of journalism.
We`re waiting to hear more from his side and we`ll report it if they come
out and speak but let`s imagine, yeah, he goes to trial and he says, "No.
I never obtain those kinds of drugs. I never drag anyone," then what do
you with that?
ZACK: Well, then you have this, you know, you can use it to sort of
impeach a murder show that he`s not telling the truth. You can bring that
deposition transcript out. You can show it to the jury and say he said
under oath in 2006 that he had done this conduct which is very powerful
evidence and it`s a very powerful thing to have on trial.
MELBER: All right, Former Federal Prosecutor John Zack thanks for walking
us through some of this.
ZACK: Thank you.
MELBER: I appreciate it.
Now, Supreme Court is planning to take up a new case that could be critical
to the future of public-sector labor unions. We have a report on that.
MELBER: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Polls Poll. Tonight`s
question, "Does Bernie Sanders search provided an opening for Joe Biden to
run for president?" Yeah, I don`t think so. 78 percent saying "No", no
matter how popular Bernie is. Now you can keep voting till the end of the
hour at pulse.msnbc.com/ED.
And we, we`ll be right back.
MELBER: In tonight, Two-Minute Drill, they are off. Spain`s annual
running of the bulls kick off today as part of the country San Fermin
Festival. Thousands of thrill-seekers as you see trying to outrun six
bulls in the streets of Pamplona.
Now 11 people, we have to tell you, were hospitalized with injuries and
three including two Americans were basically gored by the bulls. That`s
the risk and part of the thrill I guess.
None of those injuries are reported at this point to be life threatening.
It`s an 825 meter run. It goes for about two and a half minutes. The bull
runs do continue until July 14th. It`s not too late, you can get your
And Serena Williams is moving on to the semifinals at Wimbledon, the top
rank women`s tennis player, fought hard for the victory over Victoria
Azarenka of Belarus in three sets. William will face Maria Sharapova in
the semifinal match on Thursday.
Serena has 16-0 record against Sharapova. William is halfway to a tennis
Grand Slam sweep already won the Australian and French Open if you`re
keeping track. She will need wins at Wimbledon in September U.S. Open to
complete the set. The last player that win all four in the calendar year,
you guessed it folks Steffi Graf in 1988.
We`ll do a Bing Polls Poll on that someday. I promise.
All right, stick around we have a lot more in the Ed Show right after this.
MELBER: Welcome back to "The Ed Show".
We have a story. You may not have heard about -- yet, the Supreme Court is
going to take up an important labor case in its new term, that ruling could
have some pretty devastating consequences for public sector unions.
The case is about the California Teachers Association and it considers what
are called "Fair Share Service Fees" basically were non-union members pay
for union bargaining on their behalf.
Think Progress points out that unions are required to bargain on behalf of
every workers in a unionize shop that`s regardless of whether a specific
worker has elected to join that union. So that means that non-union
members and union members basically share in the benefits of working in
that unionize work at workplace (ph).
Now, the court rules, the non-union members are not required to pay those
fees, could really hinder public sector unions in the past. The court`s
conservative justices have question if these fees in the public sector
space violate some kind of free speech and they say it could require
employees to support a union that they may personally opposed.
The court is expected to hear the case when it returns from summer recess.
For more we go to Larry Cohen, former President of Telecommunication
Workers of America.
A big case that hasn`t got much attention, yet, what do you make of it and
what would an adverse ruling do to unions?
LARRY COHEN, FORMER CWA PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, the irony that
court that believes in state rights, doesn`t believe in state rights in
taking up this case. So most states don`t have collective bargaining for
the publics sector, let alone what`s called representation fees as you
There`s no bargaining right in Texas, throughout the south, most of the
west, for the public sector at all, far below the global standard.
Now, the states that do have bargaining rights, some of those have
representation fees, many don`t. And so, in this case, the court is diving
into those states that do and saying, "We think there`s first amendment
issue here". That`s how they get around the state rights frame that
normally would keep them out of these cases.
So again, what we have is a court that looks for any excuse to go after
workers rights whether in a public sector or the private sector, in this
case the public sector.
In terms of unions, so I come from the public sector in the CWA, that`s
where I started help to organize my group of 40 people in New Jersey 30
years ago. And whether it`s New Jersey or whether it`s other unions in
other states, we are doubling down on internal organizing which what we
should do anyway. So the people join the union voluntarily and make this
case close to meaningless.
MELBER: I want to turn to the politics as well which is something that Ed,
obviously, is all over. No union as you know is officially endorsed a
Democratic presidential candidate right now. The head of the Amalgamated
Transit Union, Larry Henley, has been praising Bernie Sanders for a lot of
the issues that affect American workers.
Basically, from your view as a former union president, do you think Bernie
Sanders should actually get a serious look from these unions? And I
believe Ed is going to be reporting more on this next week, so folks are
going to want to stay tuned, but what do you think?
COHEN: Yeah. So my term is CWA president after 10 years ended three weeks
ago, and I immediately volunteered and endorsed Bernie. And I did that
because it`s clear cut. He has 50 years supporting working families across
this country, particularly in Vermont, his own state, as mayor of
Burlington, as member of Congress and as Senator for the last nine years.
MELBER: Can I push you a little though, Larry?
MELBER: I mean, it`s different when you`re out of it than when you`re
speaking for the union...
MELBER: ... and whether the unions are willing to cross Hillary Clinton if
they do expect she would be the nominee.
COHEN: I think, yes. So what I saw in Iowa, I was with Bernie in Council
Bluffs on Friday. We had a meeting at Union Hall. It was packed with
local union leaders, over packed. They`re outside just to see him and just
to hear him.
And then, almost 3,000 packed the biggest meeting room in Council Bluffs,
including the same trade unions that night.
Yes, across Iowa, unions are pouring out for Bernie. Elected officials in
building trades public sector, our union, from across this state, it`s a
MELBER: What do you think beyond his style? What in this policy record is
in -- in doing that?
COHEN: Well, his stands for worker`s rights. He supports collective
bargaining. He links at economic inequality. He talks the language of
working people. He talks about kids getting to go to college without a
trillion dollars in debt. Bernie`s down for working class issues across
MELBER: Larry Cohen, thank you for spending some time with us in this
tonight. As I mentioned, Ed will be covering this more in the coming days.
That is "The Ed Show" I`m Ari Melber in for Ed.
PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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