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All In With Chris Hayes, Tuesday, July 7th, 2015

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Date: July 7, 2015
Guest: Loretta Weinberg, Hunter Walker, P.J. Masten, Barbara Bowman, David
K. Johnson


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Sit down and shut up!

HAYES: Chris Christie threatened with a bill that would make any New
Jersey governor quit if they run for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you will be the governor of New Jersey at the
end of this?

CHRISTIE: That`s my plan. Yes.

HAYES: A top lawmaker pushing the plan joins me tonight.

And Donald Trump loses the support of the PGA but gains support

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: Everybody has a right to their
opinion. That`s what a primary is about.

HAYES: Plus, Rand Paul equates slavery and taxes and the fallout from
Bill Cosby`s apparent admission that he gave a woman Quaaludes and had sex
with her.

ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Top New Jersey Democrats want to help Chris Christie focus on running
for president. They want to do it by forcing him to quit the post he has
effectively been treating as a part time job -- governor of New Jersey.

State Senators Loretta Weinberg and Ray Lesniak want to introduce a
bill later this morning to force Christie and any future New Jersey
governor to step down when they run for president.

They have a pretty good case. Christie has reportedly spent more than
half of this year outside of his home state. He`s barely stepped foot in
New Jersey since announcing his presidential run last Tuesday, spending
most of last week in New Hampshire. And this week, aides say he is
attending the annual Allen and Company conference in Idaho known informally
as summer camp for billionaires.

Now, getting the bill passed won`t be easy since Christie will be sure
to veto and Democrats would need to peel off Republican votes to override
his veto, a task they have yet to accomplish during Christie`s five years
as governor. But there is frustration over Christie`s disappearing act in
New Jersey, and not just among elected officials.

A poll last week found that 76 percent of New Jersey voters believe
Christie is more concerned with his political future than governing the
state. And 57 percent believed he should resign now that he`s campaigning
for president. And then there`s the fact that some of Christie`s more
recent policy positions seem to be more closely to the median Iowa caucus
voter than the median New Jersey resident.

Last year, under pressure from Iowa pork producers, Christie vetoed
bipartisan and widely supportive legislation that would have banned the
practice of confining pregnant pigs in crates. Just one of the number
seemingly driven by his national aspirations, including Christie`s decision
to pull his state out of Common Core.

Christie`s team dismissed the bill to force him to resign as silly
nonsense and stress that Christie is never disconnected from doing his job
as governor, an argument Christie made last month.


CHRISTIE: Maybe years ago, you know, before cell phones and
smartphones and Skype and all of this stuff, maybe you could really be
disconnected, but you can`t now. When I go in the room, you all go with
me. So, it`s not like New Jersey ever leaves me. I`m in Iowa, or I`m in
New Hampshire, South Carolina and you guys are asking me about something
that is happening here. It`s not like I can ever leave.


HAYES: Joining me now, the architect of the planned bill to force
Christie to step down, New Jersey Senate majority leader, Senator Loretta

Your response to the governor calling this silly nonsense?

worth a discussion for a whole variety of reasons. We have the strongest
chief executive, the strongest office of governor of I believe any state in
the United States under our constitution. You cannot govern New Jersey by
cell phone. We`ve got major problems here. We are talking about
underfunded pension, depleted transportation trust fund, the fact we have a
higher unemployment rate than any other state in our region. Big, big

We need a governor here to be negotiating face to face across the
table. Not by cell phone.

HAYES: OK. A cynic would say, you didn`t like the governor before,
you don`t like him now. He`s running for president so you are trying to
hamper his ability to run for president. I mean, what`s your response?

WEINBERG: No, I`m trying to make it easier to run for president. He
doesn`t have to worry about New Jersey anymore. Resign and run for

You touched on something that`s equally important to the absences to
the major issues that we have here, and that`s how Christie is appealing to
the very ultra conservative primary voter in the Republican primary.

That`s not the average resident in New Jersey. We see it all the
time. You talked about the issue about pregnant pigs. I`d like to talk
about the issue of access for women for reproductive health that he has
zeroed out of the budget which he then goes to one of the states where he
is campaigning and says, see, that proves I`m a pro--life governor.

HAYES: You feel he is essentially using New Jersey as, you know, my
famous phrase, laboratory democracy, kind of laboratory of presidential
ambitions in what he is actually doing as governor?

WEINBERG: Absolutely. What he is doing as governor is not taking
care of the issues before the residents of New Jersey. But appealing to
the primary voters in New Hampshire and Iowa and Idaho and every other
place he`s --

HAYES: I mean, what do you say to people who say, look, this happens
all the time? The president of the United States has one of the most
difficult jobs in the entire world, the most powerful person arguably in
the entire world. You know, when he runs for re-election he`s got to do
both, right? Barack Obama is out on the campaign trail, he`s also been the
president of the United States. Governor George W. Bush ran in 2000 as a
sitting governor. This is something that happens and people figure out a
way to manage.

WEINBERG: Well, we`re not talking about running for reelection here.
We are talking about running for election. There are five states that are
a resign to run law. It is not new territory.

HAYES: That`s a really good point.

WEINBERG: Arizona, Florida, Hawaii -- two others, couple other states
that I don`t recall right now. All of which have different forms of a
resign to run.

We are talking about the chief executive of our state, the major
problems that we have -- plus the fact, of course, the taxpayers are paying
for his executive protection, which he should have.

HAYES: Of course.

WEINBERG: But I don`t want to pay for them in Idaho.

HAYES: Yes, I mean, I keep thinking about, obviously Sandy was this
real iconic moment that Christie governorship. There`s a lot of praise in
the beginning period, there`s a lot of criticism of how the state has dealt
with the aftermath of it, but I think amidst all of this, God forbid some
kind of natural disaster were to happen in New Jersey, some emergency that
required the kind of immediate sustained hands on chief executive, you

WEINBERG: He`ll Skype. He just told us he has a cell phone and
Skype. You know, it`s like saying you can raise your family by being far
away and oversee what is going on in your family for cell phone, maybe a
couple of days or week but not beyond that.

HAYES: Yes, part of the issue here strikes me also is one, how long
the time horizon is, how much term he has left and how much time he is
going to have to spend outside of the state. His people said we are going
to live in New Hampshire. They have to for at least the next six months.

WEINBERG: Well, he`s already lived there last week with. It`s not
like we have just minor issues to deal with here. How can -- you`ve got to
negotiate face to face with our legislative leadership, with the -- with
our labor representatives on the whole issue of the under-funded pension.
You can`t do that part time by phoning in.

HAYES: You could text someone sit down and shut up. It`s less

Senator Loretta Weinberg, thank you very much.

All right. There is something amazing going on right now involving
Wisconsin Scott Walker and other sitting governor running for president,
with his eye on the GOP voters, has sought to position himself to the far
right on immigration, including renouncing his own support previously for
path to citizenship. Twice now in just the past few months, news stories
reported that Walker is saying things in private that are odd but the
immigration stance he claims to espouse in public.

Last week, a conservative scholar named Stephen Moore told "The New
York Times" that Walker had assured him over the phone that despite his
rhetoric, he is, quote, "not going nativist, I`m pro-immigration". But
then, yesterday, Moore told "The Times" he had misspoken and in fact the
phone call never took place. This reportedly due to some conversations
with some Walker aides. No call, never happened.

Meanwhile, in March, "The Wall Street Journal" reported that during a
private dinner New Hampshire Republicans, Walker said he does actually
supports a path to citizenship, despite his public comments. Even though
Walker`s comments were confirmed by three people present at the dinner, the
Walker campaign strongly disputed the account.

Joining me now, MSNBC contributor Sam Seder, host of "The Majority

This is the ultimate (INUDIBLE) thing to do. You have this problem
you`re Republican, and there are different places they encounter. Donor
class has one set of views. Your base is another. How do you do both?

This seems a novel approach, which is you both tell them both what
they want to hear.

SAM SEDER, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, this is not that unique. I
mean, we remember the story of candidate Barack Obama talking about
renegotiating NAFTA and then Goolsbee heading to Canada to say, don`t take
it too seriously.

HAYES: Yes, that`s true. Good point.

SEDER: With that said, there`s nothing as radioactive in the
Republican Party than the issue of immigration.

HAYES: People really need to understand this. I think they don`t.
It is like why is this happening with Trump and all of this stuff, why this
issue? You have to understand how viscerally --

SEDER: That happened to George Bush, too, in 2005, he had a big
problem with this because they were trying to push immigration reform and
there was backlash that went unnoticed in the mainstream press towards
George Bush.

But, look, here`s the problem fundamentally the Republicans have and
it`s best illustrated by that famous moment that Michele Bachmann had a
dual production of her response to Barack Obama`s, President Obama`s State
of the Union Address a couple of years back, where she is talking in to one
camera and there`s another camera going to the rest of America, because one
was a simultaneous for the Tea Party and one for the rest of the country.

HAYES: That`s right.

SEDER: You can not speak to the base of the Republican Party and not
look insane to the rest of the country and vice-versa.

This is the problem that Walker`s running in to. They are all going
to run into on some level. He`s trying to have it both ways, because he
wants to be both the establishment candidate, he wants to prove his bona

Remember, in 2006, he came out and endorsed as county supervisor the
McCain-Kennedy immigration reform.


HAYES: Absolutely. That`s absolutely betrayal.

SEDER: That`s heresy.

HAYES: Yes. Now, one of the flip side of this to me that I find
frustrating is you hear, oh, big business supports immigration reform. And
they do and they spend some money around it and they belong some of
coalitions that support it.

But you don`t see them leverage the weight in favor of it. They care
in some sort of general sense. But we saw how they went to batter for,
say, TPP. Even like EXIM bank. There are issues where they will bring the
hammer down. This is not one they do. They will tolerate a lot of double

SEDER: Chamber of Commerce and Tom Tillis, for instance.

HAYES: Great example.

SEDER: I think the bottom line is, is that the establishment, as much
as they want immigration reform, realized like this is a problem.

HAYES: It`s make or break. Right.

SEDER: I mean, that -- more than almost any other issue, they are
afraid to go ahead of this, because they have seen the power of nativism in
Republican Party. And so far, nobody`s cracked the code.

I mean, they`re trying. You can see the Republican candidates two
weeks later try and distance themselves from Donald Trump.

HAYES: This is such an important point. It`s true. No one cracked
the code. People tried. George W. Bush tried to crack the code, McCain-
Kennedy in the second term. It was Waterloo for him, essentially for his
essentially for his presidency. That was the end.

He couldn`t get his party to support it. Huge uprising.

You saw McCain himself couldn`t crack the code, he had to go back and
renounce his own support for the bill in 2008. In 2012, Perry tries to get
up there and say, let`s be a little a compassionate. Those are people,
they are not monsters -- absolutely destroyed.

Mitt Romney basically has to take the hard right line in 2012.


HAYES: Rubio ties to step on the line --

SEDER: Exactly.

HAYES: We have seen casualty after political casualty on precisely
this issue.

SEDER: Yes, it`s a real problem for him. And the irony is that the
patron saint Ronald Reagan actually was a huge -- amnesty for I think 3
million or 4 million people.

HAYES: They actually, yes.

SEDER: They actually did.

So, you know, I don`t think they can work around this. The
interesting thing is to see the Republican candidates talk about the tone
that Donald Trump is taking. But again, on substance there is no daylight
there. There really isn`t.

HAYES: My other big question is obviously the 47 percent moment with
Mitt Romney, iconic moment where, the double talk, things he said to
voters, things he said to voters gets caught on tape. Are we going to have
more moments like that? Are we going to have more moments with donors
leaking the more conversations with these donors as politicians are in a
position to speak to two cameras all the time is this that`s a fascinating
kind of theme and subtext in the campaign. How much of it comes out,
what`s said behind closed doors.

Sam Seder, always a pleasure.

SEDER: Thank you.

HAYES: Up next, a call to remove Donald Trump in the debate stage,
even as some of his fellow conservatives step up in his defense.

Plus, two of Bill Cosby`s accusers join me after news his apparent
admission that he bought drugs to give women for sex.

Presidential candidate Rand Paul`s taxation metaphor of choice --


SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I`m for paying some taxes. If we tax
you at 100 percent, then you got zero percent liberty. We tax you at 50
percent, you are half slave, half free.



HAYES: Late breaking word of a new contender for president of the
United States. As former Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore announced his
forthcoming announcement sometime in the first week of August.

Now, we would be updating our fantasy draft except Jim Gilmore didn`t
even make our draft. We only had 25 squares on the big draft board. We
had to draw the line somewhere. And it should be noted, of 25 people who
made the draft cut back in January, a whopping 18 are now officially
running for president. Scott Walker and John Kasich are planning to
announce their candidacy soon.

We`re now closing in on two dozen official candidates for president,
but there`s just one is managing to suck up the oxygen. The latest from
Mr. Donald J. Trump when we return.


HAYES: As Donald Trump refuses to back away from his inflammatory
comments about Mexican immigrants, his corporate partners continue to
abandon him. The PGA announced today it will no longer hold its annual
grand slam tournament at Trump`s golf course outside Los Angeles, this
October -- an event that was part of a multiyear partnership between the
PGA and the Trump Organization.

No word on whether that long-term deal may be affected. PGA
announcement brings the number of businesses to cut ties with Trump to at
least nine including NASCAR and ESPN, which cancels smaller events.

Nevertheless, he still has he is defenders in the political realm.
After 2016 rival Ted Cruz said he saluted Trump for raising the issue of
illegal immigration, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani chimed in
yesterday with the defense of his, quote, "good friend".


GIULIANIA: I think he hit on the right point. I would have said it
differently. And I certainly think it doesn`t reflect on Donald Trump as a
man who is a very charitable and good man. I`m sure he really had a chance
to say it, he`d reverse it. Most of the people who come if are good


HAYES: Rudy Giuliani made the comments at Trump`s new golf course in
the Bronx, not long before Trump`s presidential campaign released a lengthy
statement yesterday once again defending, not reversing, his initial
comments about Mexican immigrants, claiming the Mexican government is
forcing their most unwanted people into the United States and tremendous
infectious disease is pouring across the border.

I`m joined now by Hunter Walker, senior politics correspondent for
"Business Insider", who got the chance to interview Donald Trump yesterday.

Hunter, how are you?


HAYES: So, Trump does not seem to be -- I mean, he has tethered
himself to this position that some unspecified percentage of Mexican
immigrants, the majority perhaps are rapists, or carrying disease, or
criminals, are, quote, "their worst". And the other idea that the Mexican
government is, like, calling people into a room saying you guys go north.
He seems to be committed to the position.

WALKER: Well, in both the epic three-page statement and his
conversation with me yesterday, I would say Donald Trump went beyond
doubling down. This was quadrupling down. Not only was he was saying some
of these Mexican immigrants who come in are criminals and drug runners and
rapists, but he really was focused on the idea that the Mexican government
is, as he said to me, pushing the bad ones in. And there is some type of
deliberate effort by the Mexican government to send the criminal element
here to the States.

Though, he did make it clear that some of the immigrants are, as he
said, quote/unquote, "fabulous".

HAYES: Some of those immigrants apparently are also working on
building the new Trump hotel in Washington, D.C. This was inevitable
headline, "At Trump hotel site, immigrant workers wary". It goes to
describe some undocumented workers who may be working for the Trump hotel

I think part of what folks need to understand how central the theme
is, particularly in the conservative media, of immigrants bringing crime,
essentially of being bad actors, of being sort of malevolent force. I
mean, we have a horrible story out of San Francisco where a man is alleged
to have murdered a woman, was deported several times, was deported by ICE,
sort of escape deportation, that story is the kind of story that is an
absolute mainstay of conservative, and if you just consume that, you get a
sense that these people are disproportionately thugs and criminals.

WALKER: Yes, and I think that`s why it is not necessarily so easy to
dismiss Donald Trump.

HAYES: Exactly, right.

WALKER: Because, you know, CNN did a poll last week. You see him in
second place. You also specifically see voters saying he`s the candidate
they trust behind Jeb Bush on immigration. What we are seeing there --

HAYES: Really?

WALKER: Yes. Donald Trump is the id of the Republican Party. I
mean, you were talking about Scott Walker and others trying to speak to the
base and also to speak to the general public. Donald Trump is going
straight to the base. He`s the unfiltered conservativism, main line to the
vein. And it`s resonating with some people.

HAYES: Yes, this line struck me today, you know, talking about
infectious diseases, this is also a mainstay. I mean, I remember when we
covered the child migrant crisis at the border, this was something that
people all over, conservative media, mainstream, you know, elected
Republican figurers were saying. These people are bringing with them
disease. This is not a fringe view.

WALKER: Right. And the same polls that are showing Trump in second
place, Trump knocking others off the debate stage show that illegal
immigration is right behind the economy and health care as one of the
issues that most concerns Republican voters. So, he`s resonating with his
base. That`s for sure.

HAYES: Now, there is a fascinating sort of sub-story happening here.
I have been of the belief that the establishment Republican Party isn`t
thrilled about Trump`s entrance into the race. This is "AP" reporting that
GOP donors against Trump. One GOP donor wants to block Donald Trump from
the debate stage.

This is apparently is a little bit of an attempt at a sort of
coordinated pooch to keep him out of the debate stage, worried about
Republican on Republican violence, top party donors are taking action, with
one firing off a letter, calling for more civility, another seeking to
block businessman Donald Trump from the debate stage altogether. I can`t
think of a better story for Donald Trump than this.

WALKER: Absolutely. It fits right with his campaign narrative, which
is that he claims to be worth $9 billion and said he won`t be beholden to
donors and he actually isn`t. So, if there is an organized effort, that
does look good for him.

HAYES: In your interview, did you get a sense there is a breaking
point at which this begin to actually hurt his personal bottom line enough?
It is costing him money. At a certain point, it may end up costing him
lots and lots of money. Do you think there is a breaking point?

WALKER: He said it hurt him a little bit. He specifically said it`s
harder to run for president than he realized. But he did say to me
literally my bottom line is very large. And a lot of people are
questioning this line --

HAYES: Huge even.

WALKER: Yes, yes. Donald Trump does nothing small.

HAYES: I should note that in his statement in response to ESPN and
NASCAR, he noted he had already taken deposits from both organizations, so
now he`s going to have the deposit and also be able to charge for renting
out the facilities to other people. So, he actually made off well.

Thank you, Hunter Walker.

Tomorrow, former Mexican President Felipe Calderon will join me to
weigh in on Donald Trump`s comments about the Mexican government and
immigrants to this country. You do not want to miss that.

Up next, who Senator Rand Paul manages to invoke one of the worst
periods in American history while talking about taxes.


HAYES: Conservatives have a long ignoble tradition of comparing
whatever government program they don`t like at the moment to arguably the
worst thing we`ve ever done as a country.


really, I think, the worst thing that`s happened in this nation since

ALLEN WEST (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Since June of 2009 or so,
we`re seeing 2.4 million private sectors created but we have had 3.1
million people go on Social Security disability. So, once again, we are
creating the sense of economic dependence which, to me, is a form of modern
21st century slavery.

PAUL: With regard to the idea of whether or not you have a right to
health care, you have to realize what that implies. It is not an

I`m a physician. That means you have to right to come to my house and
conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. Basically, once you imply
a belief in a right to someone`s services, you are basically saying you
believe in slavery.


HAYES: That last clip was from then-freshman Senator Rand Paul in
2011, comparing the president`s health care law to slavery or at least the
general principle of believing in a right to health care to slavery.

He was at it again last week in Iowa, this time with taxes.


PAUL: You can have some government. We all need government. Thomas
Payne said government is a necessary evil.

What did he mean by that? You have to give up some of your liberty to
have government. That means you have to pay some taxes. I`m not against
that. I`m for some government. I`m for paying some taxes. But if we tax
you at 100 percent, then you got zero percent liberty. If we tax you at 50
percent you are half slave, half free. I frankly would like to see you a
little freer and a little more money remaining in your communities to
create jobs.

It`s a debate we need to have.


HAYES: Joining me now, David K. Johnson, Pulitzer prize-winning
journalist and distinguished visiting lecturer at Syracuse Law.

The person I always turn to when I have questioned about taxes and
whether my taxation rate means that I`m half slave, half tree.

So, there is a long, long tradition, and I think it`s sort of
important for folk to understand that Rand Paul is really channeling his
father who himself was channeling a hundred years of rhetoric about
particularly the income tax that has been part of the bloodstream of the
conservative movement for a long time.

DAVID K. JOHNSON, JOURNALIST: Well, Chris, the fifth circuit court of
appeals, that`s the court for Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi actually
addressed this issue 60 years ago and said the claim that the income tax is
a form of slavery and involuntary servitude is frivolous.

There are few things a judge can say about a case that`s stronger than
it`s frivolous meaning you -- this is nonsense -- you know, go take you
your drunken conversation back to the bar where it belongs.

HAYES: You know, there is also this idea that, you know, taxation is
such an unbelievable burden on personal liberty, which is what he`s saying
there, right. You are half slave, half free. But then to turn around and
be like, well, we want a 15 percent flat tax or whatever so you are 15
percent slave.

I mean, there`s -- it take as certain about of cognitive
disassociation to
think this actually tyranny and then talk about how to kind of marginally
tinkering with the tyranny policy.

JOHNSON: Well, yes. And Chris, let`s keep in mind we are free
because of taxes. Whe Civil War was won by the north because it had the
taxing capacity and borrowing capacity to defeat the traitors in the south.

We won World War II because of taxes. Taxes are fundamental to our
freedom. It`s the very first power we grant congress in our constitution.

So, when you get these arguments that this takes away your freedom
it`s like,
really, have you not thought this through carefully? It what makes you

And by the way, Chris. Do you know how many people in this country
pay 30 percent or more of their income in federal income taxes, 97,000
households in this
whole country, 97,000. And their average rate is 33 percent, and their
average income is $2.7 million.

I`m sorry. On $2.7 million, if you can`t afford to give 33 percent of
your taxes to the government so that we can be free, we can have an FBI, we
can have public health, we can have a military, we can have courts to
adjudicate disputes then you apparently think money grows on trees in the

HAYES: Freedom isn`t free, as they say.


HAYES: Now here -- 97,000 households is interesting, because one
things you hear a lot -- and it tells you about the sort of composition of
the donor class, particularly on the Republican side, but it`s true also on
the Democratic side in terms of who are the folks giving the money are --
tend to be those 97,000 households.

They are massively over represented. It probably makes up nearly 100
percent of the folks that are significant donors.

And you hear sometimes this idea that 50 percent marginal rate is some
kind of tipping point, right, that like once we creep up to 50 percent or
near 50 percent once you add in all taxes you cross some sort of threshold,
that -- and there`s just there`s no real empirical evidence that that`s the

JOHNSON: There is exactly zero evidence that supports that. We had
our greatest economic growth when we had higher tax rates. And there is a
reason that that happens, Chris. When you have these very low tax rates
for very wealthy people then their surplus income, what they don`t need to
live on, that they can build their wealth with, grows and grows, not like a
snowball but like an avalanche.

And so instead of having money flowing through the economy where
everybody is working, they`re buying goods and services, they`re able to
have everyone be better off because we are all buying goods and services,
this money concentrates in a few
hands. And they can`t spend it. They can`t adequately invest it. And
it`s damaging to the economy.

HAYES: Yeah, if you spend time any time -- I mean, and I follow
reporters who report on Silicon Valley. I have friends in startups. The
sort of craziness of that world right now in which you have such a glut of
investable capital chasing every new idea that comes, because there is just
not enough to soak it up. And people talk -- people joke about this all the
time, that is in many senses it`s partly due to our tax code.

David K. Johnson, thank you very much.

Still to come, more shockwaves from the newly released Bill Cosby
deposition, two of his accusers will be here to talk about what happens
now, and a potentially historic nuclear deal with Iran is delayed for a
second time a new deadline, perhaps the final deadline, is now fast
approaching. We will bring you the latest next.


HAYES: The second time in a week international negotiators have blown
through the deadline for what could be a historic deal to curb Iran`s
nuclear program. After the parties failed to reach a final deal by June
30, the original deadline, set as part of a framework agreement earlier
this year, they the year they extended talks through today, but now it`s
clear that some major roadblocks still remain.

Secretary of State John Kerry and his team will stay at the
negotiations in Vienna at least until Friday to try and get the job done.


said back on Sunday, we have never been closer to reaching a final
agreement than we are now. But there continue to be some significant
differences that remain. And this is a view -- this is a view not just of
the United States but this is the view of
all of our P5+1 partners as well.

So, that`s an indication that these talks, at least for now, are worth


HAYES: Joining me now, Trita Parsi, president of the National Iranian
American Council, who just returned from Vienna on Sunday.

Trita, I want to lay out an argument that critics of contours of this
deal make, that strikes me is it has some merit, which is basically the
inertial force from the administration right now is so strong to get a
deal, that they have tried to hard to get a deal, that they would view not
getting a deal as failure and that essentially hands leverage to the
Iranians, because the Iranians know that at this point John Kerry and the
White House have walked so far on this path that they can`t just say no and
walk away from the table.

What do you think of that?

remember, the Iranians suffer from the exact same issue. They have been at
the same negotiating table for exactly the same amount of time. If they
walk away or don`t get the deal it`s also a failure for them.

The reason why the chances of a deal actually is still pretty good in
spite of these delays is because of the fact that both sides really do need
it. It`s not so that the United States needs it more than the Iranians or
vice versa, both sides really need it.

HAYES: Why though? I mean, what is driving -- let`s flip it around
then. Why have the Iranians stayed at the negotiating table as long as
they have?

PARSI: Because from their perspective this is an important issue. If
this issue hadn`t been resolved they looked at the prospects of actually
having a military confrontation with the United States.

Both the U.S. and Iran were on an escalatory path because they were
both pursuing coercive measures and pressure diplomacy. And they knew at
some point around 2012, early 2013, that the most likely outcome of them
staying on that path would be a military confrontation. That would serve
no one. And both of them would walk away from that a loser.

And as a result, both sides actually do have a common interest in
getting this resolved. And both sides have also been wise enough to
realize that they need to soften their position in order to get a deal.

You do not get a deal, you don`t get anything out of this unless you
are you are willing to give something at the same time.

HAYES: OK, well then this brings us to the brass tacks here, right.
If both sides have it in their interest to get a deal, why have we, a,
blown through these deadlines, and b, why are they not there yet, and what
do you think another three days -- what difference will that make?

PARSI: Well, the first reason why it`s taken long in general is
because they`ve been negotiating for a year-and-a-half, two years now is
the fact that they hadn`t talked to each other for 35 years. There were a
lot of problems there. And they hadn`t resolved these issues.

So, just starting and getting some progress took some time.

The reason is why it`s getting delayed at this point is because both
sides are really negotiating hard.

I mean the flip side of the earlier argument you made is that the
critics want to have it both ways. On the one hand, they want to say that
Kerry is so eager to get a deal so that he`s willing to give up anything.
But at the same time, if he`s so eager to get a deal, why is this taking so
long, and why are so
many deadlines being missed? This is contradictory.

HAYES: Can you imagine a scenario in which this just falls apart in
the next few days?

PARSI: It certainly is not impossible. But I would be surprised if
were to happen. They have come so close. They have resolved so many of
the toughest issues. In fact, the issues that are remaining are not as
tough. The reason why they`re negotiating so hard on them is because both
sides are under so much domestic pressure to drive a really hard bargain.
And that`s what they`re doing.

And in fact, if they were not blowing through these deadlines, they
would be
accused of having negotiated too softly and agreed to a deal too quickly.

So, this is actually part of the dynamic of them also trying to
appease the
domestic critics and trying to create a strong image that they are
bargaining as hard as they possibly could.

HAYES: Trita Parsi who just got back from Vienna where those talks
are happening and will continue through this week. We will keep an eye
thank you very much.

PARSI: Thanks for having me.

HAYES: All right, up next, a total of 36 women accused Bill Cosby of
sexual assault. Now, new court documents show Cosby`s own words about his
relationship with drugs and women, two of his accusers join me ahead.


HAYES: The South Carolina senate in a vote of 36-3 gave final
approval to a bill to remove the Confederate flag from the grounds of the
state house today.

The South Carolina House of Representatives voted to bypass committee
and send the bill to the floor for what is expected to be a contentious

MSNBC`s Joy Reid reporting today that one legislator, Republican
Michael Pitt has already introduced at least 25 amendments, which have to
be debated for 20 minutes each, to try and slow the bill down and kill it.

If the house passes the bill the remove the flag, it will head to
governor Nicki Haley`s desk. She has called for the flag to come down and
urged the South Carolina House to follow the Senate`s lead.

We will continue to monitor that story, and we`ll be right back.


HAYES: Bill Cosby has not yet responded through his attorneys or
otherwise to the release of court documents from 10 years ago in which
Cosby in his own words
in a deposition admitted to getting seven prescriptions for Quaaludes
during the 1970s for the purpose of using the drug on women with whom he
wanted to have sex.

For this discussion, I will refer to it as sex, because we do not know
whether it was consensual or not. In fact, that is precisely what is
disputed. And so out of a surfeit of caution, we will use that word.

In that same deposition, Cosby does not answer as to whether he gave
women the drug without their knowledge or against their will.

NBC news has confirmed now a total of 36 alleged victims. Cosby has
ever been charged and in prior statements has denied these allegations.

NBC News has contacted Cobsy`s representatives numerous times since
this document released and they say they have no comment as of now.

But the 2005 deposition represents a first. Bill Cosby, in his own
words, discussing the relationship between drugs and sex with women. The
deposition related to a civil case against Cosby brought by a plaintiff
whom NBC News will not name.

The case was dismissed, and there was later an undisclosed settlement.

In one portion of the 2005 deposition, Cosby answers a question about
the use of Quaaludes.

Question, when you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind you were going to
use these Quaaludes for young women you wanted to have sex with?

Cosby`s answer, yes.

In another portion of the deposition, Cosby is asked about a woman
other than
the plaintiff who had claimed that at age 19 Cosby had sex with her after
he gave her Quaaludes.

After some back and forth between the lawyers Cosby says the following
regarding that woman.

Answer, I met Ms. redacted in Las Vegas. She meets me backstage. I
give her Quaaludes. We then have sex. I do not -- I can`t judge at this
time what she knows about herself for 19 years, a passive personality.

Then there is the plaintiff herself, the woman who brought the case
that was later dismissed.

There is line of questioning about the plaintiff and her mother having
at some point asked simply for an apology followed by Cosby`s suggestion he
pay for the plaintiff`s education if she maintained a certain grade point

Question, so you`re saying that redacted would have to prove to you
she got a
3.0 average wherever she went in order for you to pay for her education?

Cosby`s answer, she would have to prove to me that while she was at
said university that she was maintaining a 3.0.

Finally, a deposition ended with very specific questions about how
Cosby administered the pills to the plaintiff in question.

Question, so you broke one pill in half. Where are the three. If you
have one half and one whole one, that`s two. Are you saying you broke the
whole one so you have three halves


Why would you break the whole pill in half and give her both halves?

Answer, because they`re long.

I`ll be joined by two of Bill Cosby`s accusers to respond to all of
this when we return.


HAYES: Joining me now Barbara Bowman and P.J. MASTEN who have both
accused Bill Cosby of sexual misconduct.

Thanks for joining me.

Barbara, maybe I`ll begin with you, and just your reaction to the
disclosure now of these documents, the first time we kind of have tangible
evidence of what was going on behind the scenes and all these legal
machinations that have been hidden from public view.

BARBARA BOWMAN, COSBY ACCUSER: Elation, and relief, and hope for the
future. It was definitely a view into the didactic are personality of Bill
Cosby, and his grooming and predatory practices.

It`s opening the doors to future education of young people who are not
expecting us to come at them.

And, you know, the ten years that it took me in particular to fight
hard to have are my story heard and believed. In my darkest days I really
never gave up. I knew that some day, some way a brick would be shattered.
And this is it. And yesterday was a fabulous day for me, very victorious
and a feeling of jubilation for me as well as I`m sure all the rest of us.

HAYES: P.J., you don`t have to answer this if you don`t want to if
you don`t want to walk through it, but I am curious if there were things in
the details of these revelations that were familiar to the experience you
say you have

P.J. MASTEN, COSBY ACCUSER: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

When the news broke yesterday, I felt complete vindication not just
for me, but for the 48 women that have come forward and for the dozens of
dozens that are still Jane Does. And hopefully there are a lot of women
out there that will feel brave enough to come forward. And we will take
care of them. We`ll get them therapy and take care and council them.

There are many more, many more, Chris.

HAYES: Can tell me P.J. specifically what aspects of it were familiar
to you.

MASTEN: In regards to what?

HAYES: In terms of your experience with Mr. Cosby.

MASTEN: I`m not sure what you mean by that, Chris.

HAYES: I mean, in terms of the encounter you had and the sort of
details of how that went down, in terms of the M.O. that he`s alleged to
have that appears in these documents, which aspects of it were similar to
what you say you have experienced.

MASTEN: Well, I knew Bill Cosby for five years before the rape
happened. He had invited me to dinner in Chicago and he told me to meet
him at the White Hall Hotel, which I did. And I went upstairs and there
were four other men in the room and they were drinking, watching sports.
And Cosby asked if I wanted to have a cocktail. And I really wasn`t much
of a drinker. So I said I would have a Grand Marnier. And he sent the
bellman to get the bottle. He gave me the glass. I took two sips of it
and that`s the last I remember until 4:00 in the morning.

And I woke up. And I was bruised, and battered, and raped, and naked.
And he was in the bed next to me. And I slithered out of the bed and got
my clothes on, went downstairs, got in a cab, and went home and took a
shower, completely flipped out.

I had to go to work at Playboy. And I did tell my bosses at Playboy
what he did to me. And I was told that Bill Cosby was Hugh Hefner`s best
friend. And I said I know that. And they told me that nobody would
believe me and to keep my mouth shut.

And for 30-something years I have kept my mouth shut. And with brave
women like Barbara Bowman and so many others I came forward. And I feel
vindicated along with all the other ladies. I feel vidictated.

HAYES: Barbara, did it occur to you or at what point did it possibly
occur to you that there could be other women who had experienced what you
say you experienced?

BOWMAN: It occurred to me in 2005 when Andrea Constan filed her
lawsuit for the same crime. And when I found out that I was living many in
Arizona with a baby and a toddler and minding my own business. And looked
online and I said, oh, my gosh, I`m not the only one. And I am going to do
whatever it takes to go on a mission to support this woman. I believe her,
because it happened to me.

And that was the beginning of another long silent ten years. But that
was what was maybe the key that unlocked the first door to many.

And I just said, I`m not going to sit this silence anymore. And I
found her attorney, and I called her attorney and I said, I`m only calling
you because I believe your client and anything I can do to help her, I will
do that. My statute of limitations has run out. As far as I know, I am
not into this for anything except to support your client.

And I became one of 13 Jane Does who were scheduled to testify in a
court of law on behalf of Andrea Constan against Bill Cosby for the same
allegations. And when she asked me why do you want to remain a Jane Doe,
the judge wants to know, because we were prepping for testimony and
depositions. I said, I don`t want to be a Jane Doe. I have been a Jane
Doe all my life. And if I continue to be a Jane Doe, there is no reason
for this to go on, because I won`t help anybody but myself.

So it wasn`t just about my healing, it was about everyone else`s.

So, you know, that journey was a very long journey but really to this
day, looking back a well worth it journey. You know, no victory was ever
won without a few battle scars in between.

HAYES: P.J., quickly. What would you like to see happen to Mr.

MASTEN: I would like to see his star taken off the Hollywood Walk of
Fame. I would like to see his statues taken off Disney properties and I
would like to see him held accountable for all the rapes done to these

HAYES: All right, Barbara Bowman and P.J. Masten thank you very much
for joining me tonight. I really, really do appreciate it.

That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right


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