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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Tuesday, July 7th, 2015

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Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: July 7, 2015
Guest: David Corn, Joy Reid, Jeremy Peters
Guest: Bob Casey, David Corn, Kaylee Dedrick, Robert Grodt

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we`ll see you again
tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good
evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, let me explain to you the
rules of TV mystery stories.

MADDOW: OK --

O`DONNELL: When the hour comes to a close, you solve the mystery, you know
--

(LAUGHTER)

It doesn`t end with stumped, now, what are we going to do now? I don`t know
how to proceed in this show without solving that mystery.

MADDOW: Honest to a fault, I have no idea is the right answer to this
story. If I figure it out during your show, I`ll call in.

O`DONNELL: But it -- there is -- there is -- is there a possibility of
some horrible tragedy here or do they suspect natural circumstances?

MADDOW: It doesn`t seem to be humans doing anything either from the air or
from the land. It doesn`t seem to be weather. It doesn`t seem to be
anything toxic, it doesn`t seem to be a disease.

Honestly, I`m going with aliens until we`ve got something better.

O`DONNELL: All right, we`re going to stay on it, Rachel --

MADDOW: Thank you, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: OK --

(LAUGHTER)

Well, she accepted his money for her campaigns and she attended his wedding
-- yes, OK, just one of his weddings. And now, Hillary Clinton has
answered her first campaign question about Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: This is going to be
competitive. It should be competitive. It`s only the presidency of the
United States we`re talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a coronation, this is a fight.

CLINTON: This is my last rodeo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And let`s transition to Bernie Sanders, how is he
able to get these huge crowds?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: In case you didn`t notice, this is a big
turnout.

(CHEERS)

CLINTON: I feel very good about where my campaign is, so I couldn`t be
happier about my campaign.

DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER, TRUMP
ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: I know Hillary very well. I do, I can beat her.

CLINTON: How many people running for president on the Republican side
tried to demean immigrants?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first Republican debate is less than a month
away. If it were held today, the following candidates would make the cut.

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: And I will give it my all.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We want something new, we want new leadership.

RICK PERRY, FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: I have been thinking a little about
2016.

TRUMP: I`m really rich, I`ll show you that in a second.

CLINTON: What`s great about America, is anybody can run for president.
That is literally true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: There are about 20 declared candidates for president and only
one of them has ever attended any of Donald Trump`s three weddings. Today,
that candidate was asked about Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump is also creating quite a lot of
commotion on the other side. He`s a friend of yours, has been over the
years, he donated to your Senate campaign, to the Clinton Foundation.

What`s your reaction to his recent comments that some Mexican immigrants
are rapists and criminals?

CLINTON: I`m very disappointed in those comments. And I feel very bad and
very disappointed with him and with the Republican Party for not responding
immediately and saying enough, stop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: As of this hour, nine businesses have stopped doing business
with Donald Trump. The Professional Golfers Association has decided not to
hold next year`s Grand Slam of Golf at a Trump course in Los Angeles.

As usual, the Trump organization issued a statement that claimed that
losing an important PGA tournament was all the Trump team`s idea.

They issued a written statement saying, "due to the controversy surrounding
statements made by Mr. Trump having to do with illegal immigrants pouring
into the United States from Mexico and other parts of the world, Mr. Trump
does not want his friends at the PGA of America to suffer any consequences
or backlash with respect to the Grand Slam of Golf."

And of course no Trump statement is complete without an advertisement for a
Trump property.

The statement goes on to say, Mr. Trump stated, "I have great respect for
the PGA of America and everything they stand for.

This also allows me the time to rebuild the golf course in Los Angeles
fronting the Pacific Ocean and considered to be one of the finest parcels
of land anywhere in the United States into the course I always wanted it to
be."

Joining us now from Iowa is Jeremy Peters, political reporter for the "New
York Times" covering the 2016 presidential race and an Msnbc political
analyst.

From South Carolina, Joy Reid, an Msnbc national correspondent and David
Corn, Washington Bureau Chief for "Mother Jones" and an Msnbc political
analyst is here in the studio in New York with me.

David, so Hillary Clinton is very disappointed in Donald Trump.

DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: I mean, no --

(LAUGHTER)

O`DONNELL: Which I have to say I find a little strange, I don`t want to
get too semantic here, but in order to be disappointed --

CORN: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Don`t you have to have an expectation below which Donald Trump
falls.

CORN: I mean, it --

O`DONNELL: Who expected more from Donald?

CORN: It sounds like she was maybe surprised, you know, that he would say
something denigrating about somebody -- it was very schoolmarmish.

But you know -- but she definitely used it to try to cast that Donald Trump
glow across the entire GOP field, which we will see increasingly from the
Democratic side, because, you know, Donald Trump has become this
wonderfully tanned albatross around the neck of the Republican Party.

He is the only presidential candidate who gets a lot of media attention. I
know from our own traffic at "Mother Jones", a lot of the other candidates
don`t have a lot of interest out there.

But anything you say about Donald Trump, the public eats up, which is why
he got to be where he is. And so, she and other Democrats now have this
Trump bludgeon to hit the other GOPs with again and again and try to create
more of a civil war inside the Republican Party.

O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, I wonder if she missed an opportunity to reach back
eight years to Obama supporters.

People who decided to vote for Barack Obama instead of Hillary Clinton in
2008 in that primary and express her outrage about what Donald Trump had to
say about President Obama four years ago.

Never mind being disappointed now, but it certainly include something about
what he said now. But why not reach back to what he was saying about
President Obama when she was serving as Secretary of State and it wasn`t
appropriate for her to say anything about that.

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I mean, that`s an interesting
point, Lawrence. But in addition to that, of course, you know, Hillary
Clinton has put a lot of stock in her position on things like immigration
reform to really put that stake down in terms of being the candidate who
should be of the most interest to Latino voters.

But yes, when it comes to African-American voters, black voters are saying
hold on a second, Donald Trump has been offending us for years and years
and years in the things that he said about Barack Obama.

So it was a golden opportunity, particularly since Hillary Clinton has
known him for so long, it was sort of a sister-soldier moment opportunity
to say, yes, I`ve known this man a long time, I have no idea what`s wrong
with him.

But speaking from experience, he`s fallen far field of what I knew or
something to that effect. Hillary Clinton does need to take every
opportunity, particularly with Bernie Sanders out there to remind a couple
of core constituencies that she`s their girl, African-Americans and
Hispanics.

Very important that she do that every time, you know, perhaps maybe her
staff didn`t prepare her probably for the question, but yes, I think she
needs to be much more aggressive in pushing back against Donald Trump.

O`DONNELL: Jeremy Peters, some Republican donors are trying to figure out
what to do here.

These are the investors in these candidacies, they know Donald Trump is not
going to be on the Republican ticket and they`re worried about what kind of
damage that he might be doing on that debate stage to whoever the
candidates are who are going to end up on that Republican ticket.

But no one seems to have come up with any kind of solution yet, but they`re
definitely worried.

JEREMY PETERS, POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: No, that`s absolutely
right. And I find a number of things rather surprising and outrageous
about this whole episode.

I find it surprising and outrageous that the presumptive Democratic nominee
is asking what -- is being asked what purports to be a serious question
about Donald Trump.

I also find it amazing that you have the Republican Party grappling with an
issue that it thought it had solved, and that`s how to handle these
presidential debates.

Remember how much control Republicans tried to exert over this process?
They tried to control which networks are going to hold them.

They tried to control who is going to moderate them, and they tried to
control who is going to be in them. And in this case, something that was
completely unexpected, Donald Trump running for president.

I mean he had been threatening to do it for the better part of two decades
and he finally did to everyone`s surprise.

He is now threatening to disrupt this entire process and it`s giving a lot
of serious minded Republicans a lot of heartburn.

CORN: But --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, David.

CORN: But you know, the reason he is able to do that is not because he is
a TV star, not because he claims to have $9 billion or whatever he does
have.

The reason he`s able to do that is because there is a strong constituency
for him --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CORN: With -- in the Republican Party. The tea party base of that party,
you know, has a very strong feeling about immigration reform.

It`s sort of a cultural reaction, their form of the cultural wars and he is
appealing to that in the most demagogue way possible.

And you know, it`s because -- and that`s giving him the standing in the
poll that`s going to keep him in the debates, you know, you know, not allow
"Fox" or anybody else to say no, you don`t make the cut.

So, it`s really -- as much as the Republican poobahs want to --

REID: Yes --

CORN: Control things, they can`t control the base of their party which is
pulling them to the right and right into Trump towers.

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Joy.

REID: You know, and Lawrence, you`re absolutely right, but that is a very
good point, and that`s why it`s cost free for Hillary Clinton. Donald
Trump is simply trolling the world with this pretend presidential
candidacy.

Lord only knows what his actual end game is, now that it`s hurting his
business. But there is no cost for Hillary Clinton to go after him in the
fiercest way because he is insulting a constituency that is very important
to her.

And she can drive home the point of how offensive a demagogue it is, and
there is not much the Republicans can do.

Because so much of their base agrees with what Donald Trump is saying about
immigrants who are coming from countries in South America.

They agree with these things that he is saying that about people of Latin
descent. And so they are trapped in sort of a box that Donald Trump is
putting them in.

So, I think it doesn`t hurt Hillary Clinton at all, in fact it helps her.
And again, there is that residual reminder to African-American voters that
listen, I also remember that he offends President Obama, that he`s talked
about this birtherism and the birth certificate issue.

And that he`s been an equal opportunity offender of people of color. If I
was Hillary Clinton, I would be going after him every day, there is no
cost, he`s not a real candidate.

O`DONNELL: I want to go back to this Hillary Clinton --

(CROSSTALK)

PETERS: Joy makes a good --

CORN: Right --

PETERS: Point there --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Jeremy, go ahead, go ahead.

PETERS: Well, I was just going to say, Joy makes a good point there, in
that, this is starting to hurt Donald Trump`s business and I think this is
probably what has surprised him most about this process.

Is -- here you have somebody who got into this we all assume, because he
wanted to enhance his brand and promote his business interest. And all
it`s ended up doing so far really is to hurt this.

O`DONNELL: All right, I want to go back to the Hillary Clinton interview
with "Cnn", because she was asked about raising taxes, but before I do
that, I want to show what Bernie Sanders said about raising taxes --

CORN: Yes --

O`DONNELL: This week, and when you ask Bernie Sanders a question about,
are we going to have to raise income taxes, let`s listen to the way he
answers it --

CORN: Yes --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We have to do away with these corporate tax havens, and yes, we
have to raise individual tax rates substantially higher than they are today
because almost all of the new income is going to the top 1 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And let`s listen to how Hillary Clinton answered that question
on "Cnn".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are -- is raising taxes on the table?

CLINTON: I`m going to put out my policies and I`ll let other people speak
to their policies, because I think we have to both grow the economy faster
and fairer, so we have to do what will actually work in the short term, the
medium term and the long term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: David Corn, that seems to me to be the essential difference
between these two campaigns --

CORN: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Right now, Bernie Sanders will answer any question, he`ll
actually answer your question. Hillary Clinton gives the standard
Democratic candidate answer about raising taxes, which is a bunch of words
that mean nothing and don`t answer the question in any way.

CORN: Bernie`s candidacy is about really not Bernie so much as the issues.
He`s adopted sort of the Elizabeth Warren set of issues and the Democratic
rest of the wing of the Democratic Party and that`s why people are flocking
to him.

It`s not his great charisma, his great oratorical skills, his past
legislative accomplishments, because he is speaking to the set of issues
quite frankly from his perspective as an independent progressive socialist,
you know, with a long history.

Hillary Clinton -- I`m not sure that works in a general election, but he
will get the most -- pretty good amount of votes in the Democratic
primaries.

Hillary Clinton is running as you say, a sort of the Democratic generic
leader of the PAC who is worried as much about general election as a --
maybe as a primary, and doesn`t want to give bait to the other side that
she is going to raise your taxes.

They all -- I mean, remember Walter Mondale in 1984. So, she`s going to be
overly careful and will look very heroic in some ways next to her and
that`s a challenge for her.

O`DONNELL: And Joy, one of the big --

REID: But I mean --

O`DONNELL: Differences -- go ahead, Joy, go ahead.

REID: No, I was just going to say, except in the current iteration of our
politics, particularly with President Obama after having said this many
times, Hillary Clinton has the golden path ahead of her.

She can simply say Bernie Sanders is absolutely right about one thing, the
rich should be paying more. This is something about which a lot of
Republicans are actually kind of nervous, this idea of extreme income
inequality.

She could have actually answered the question. There is actually a way for
her to finesse that in which she doesn`t say I`m going to raise everyone`s
taxes, but that she says the super rich should pay more.

I think that would have been a much more simple answer.

O`DONNELL: All right, we`re going to take a break here, coming up,
presidential candidate Lindsey Graham issues a warning about the debate
rules for Republican candidates.

And President Obama met with Senate Democrats tonight, all of them were
invited, one of the senators who was there will join us.

And remember when this happened during Occupy Wall Street? That illegal use
of pepper spray just cost the city of New York a lot of money. One of the
women who was hit with that spray will join us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In South Carolina today, the state Senate gave final approval
to a bill removing the Confederate flag from statehouse grounds.

There was a poignant moment on the Senate floor when the widow of State
Senator and Emanuel AME Pastor Clementa Pinckney appeared in the Senate
chamber.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we will keep our arms wrapped around you and this
family forever. It`s the least that we can do for our brother Clementa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: South Carolina`s house of Representatives will consider the
bill tomorrow. Up next, Lindsey Graham is worried about what the "Fox
News" debates might do to the Republican Party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Republican presidential candidate Lindsey Graham has a warning
for voters in early primary states.

The Republican Party and "Fox News" are threatening their status as the
most important voters in the world because of their rule, saying that only
the top ten candidates in national polls will be allowed to participate in
the Republican presidential debates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I won an election in South
Carolina, very much at risk. If we use national polling to determine how
you get in these debates, people are going to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right --

GRAHAM: Start spending money to get their national numbers up. You`re
going to reward a guy like Trump who`s got a TV show.

And it`s about name ID, it`s about coming from big states, it`s about
having run before, it`s going to destroy the early primary caucus process.

We need to push back to the RNC, this is a dumb way to do it, at the end of
the day, Brad Pitt would be in our debate. Iowa, South Carolina and New
Hampshire are good for the party.

They`re good for democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, you`re in one of those states tonight, there is
Lindsey Graham saying, Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire are good for
the party, they`re good for democracy. Is he right?

REID: Well, I mean this process has been very good for Iowa, New Hampshire
and South Carolina. That`s for certain because they`ve had tremendous
power.

And increasingly, South Carolina, Lindsey Graham`s home state.

Because if you think about it, Lawrence, with so many candidates running
and really even every presidential cycle for the last several, if Iowa and
New Hampshire split, if the same person doesn`t win both, South Carolina
has become the tie-breaker state, become very important.

So being -- doing really well in the polls in those individual states has
mattered a lot. And I have to say Lindsey Graham has a point.

If now you have to do well nationally in the national poll, it diminishes
the importance of being able to do well in one of those discreet states,
but particularly for South Carolina which has really counted on becoming
that tie-breaker in both the Democratic and Republican parties.

So yes, he has a point.

O`DONNELL: But Jeremy Peters, for years -- and I know many liberals have
been complaining that those states, those early voting states, which are
not representative of the United States of America get to make these
decisions about who our viable presidential candidates are, and you never
hear from the big population centers.

There`s no voter in California who has anything to say about this, there`s
no voter in the state of New York, who has anything to say about this.

PETERS: That`s right. And personally, just speaking for myself here, I
for one think a Republican debate without Lindsey Graham would not be
nearly as entertaining. So --

O`DONNELL: I think you`re right --

PETERS: Just for those agree --

(CROSSTALK)

I think that the Republicans should let him into -- let him in the debate.
That aside, you`re exactly right.

I mean, what you see in -- over the course of the last few GOP primaries is
this gradual nationalization of the primary process.

And very much, the local parties in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina,
very much feel that they have had no choice, but to cede authority to the
broadcast networks in this case and give up a big piece of their role in
these early nominating states.

So, I mean, it`s been happening for a while, but this cycle with so many
candidates has given the networks such an outsize role in picking -- in
picking who will go in the debates has made it worse.

O`DONNELL: David Corn, what do you think?

CORN: Well, there are two issues here, one is the debates and one is the
importance of the Israeli states. I mean, Iowa, particularly for the
Republican Party has pulled the candidate always --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CORN: Far to the -- to the right --

O`DONNELL: Right --

CORN: And they`ve given people like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum who
really don`t have much of a competitive chance in a national election, even
further down the line in the Republican primaries and caucuses.

So, I think that needs to be revisited. And I have to say, I feel for
Lindsey Graham.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, if you`re looking at Donald Trump and other people getting onto the
debate while this, you know, lofty senator, who cares a lot about national
security matters is cut out because he is at two points in the polls, I
feel bad for them.

I think that they`re using, you know, these national polls when candidates
are focused in individual states is not a good indicator.

I think letting "Fox News", you know, God bless Roger Ailes, but you know,
letting them be the determinator here of this really important thing is bad
for the -- for the -- for the public, it`s bad for the Republican Party,
it`s bad for the RNC and it`s bad for at least half the candidates.

So, the RNC really messed up in doing this. It`s a disservice to its party
and they`re going to have to revisit this down the road.

O`DONNELL: But I -- look, I think the great benefit here in terms of using
national polls for this qualification any way is that you don`t have to go
out to Iowa and say silly things about ethanol and --

(CROSSTALK)

CORN: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Months ago in New Hampshire and see these very specialized
targeted things for these very small groups of voters.

And Joy Reid, you know, as we know, the demographic composition of Iowa and
New Hampshire does not reflect the United States of America.

There`s just all sorts of voters who are basically disenfranchised and not
represented in any way in those early voting states.

REID: Yes, absolutely, and one of the reasons that New Hampshire and even
Nevada have become more important in recent contests is because Iowa and
New Hampshire are so unrepresented --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

REID: Demographically.

O`DONNELL: Yes --

REID: Well, not of the Republican Party, because in the -- in terms of the
Republican --

CORN: Yes --

REID: Party, Iowa -- and here is what -- kind of actually pretty
representative, and Iowa represents how far right the party has drifted.

And so I`m not sure it`s that unrepresented, but I think it sort of
comically fitting, that this is the way the Republicans are going to choose
their candidates.

Because -- you know, let`s face it, Roger Ailes has built the network where
Republicans -- that Republicans trust, that`s where they get their
information.

The candidates are sort of cycled through there any way. So, in a way, I
guess comically, this sort of makes sense that they would be the place
where people can choose their candidate.

And yes, they don`t have to go to every Iowan`s house, people in Iowa are
accustomed to having the candidates come home with them.

That`s how specialized it is. And so, is that a bad thing for it -- for
that to change in terms of our politics? Maybe not.

But I do think that these debates will be diminished for not having perhaps
some of the more serious candidates not on the stage.

And having Donald Trump on the stage when he is doing a marketing thing.
So, I think, you know, there`s two ways to look at it, but I guess in terms
of who the Republican Party is becoming, maybe this is the best way to do
it --

O`DONNELL: Yes, I think there should probably be some sort of super
delegate thing, Jeremy Peters, like, you know, like if you are a sitting
United States Senator or a sitting governor, yes, you get into these
debates.

And if there`s going to be a cut off of ten, then you know, use the -- a
combination of top ten in the polls, plus all sitting senators and
governors --

CORN: You need affirmative action.

O`DONNELL: Well, you know, look, what we know is --

(CROSSTALK)

PETERS: Can you imagine if you were --

O`DONNELL: What we know --

PETERS: But can you --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead --

PETERS: Can you imagine if you were --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead Jeremy --

PETERS: So, I was just saying imagine if you`re John Kasich, you`re the --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

PETERS: You`re the --

REID: Right --

PETERS: Sitting governor of Ohio and you might get excluded from the
debate that is happening in your home state.

I mean, he`s not really registering high enough in the polls to be included
at this point, so he might actually be left out.

You might -- you know, you have Lindsey Graham who could be left out, you
have Rick Perry who could be left out.

You have all of these -- more sitting governors, Bobby Jindal, you have
Carly Fiorina, the only woman, lots of people who are going to be left on
the table.

But I will say that it`s not only "Fox News" that shoulders the blame here,
"Cnn" deserves its fair share of the blame because they also have a top ten
criteria here.

And if they were really being honest, these networks, about making sure
that this was a process where all the candidates got a fair hearing.

What they would do is just split it down the middle and say, you know, A
through K, you know, you go in this debate --

CORN: Yes --

PETERS: And you know, M through Z, you`re in the next one.

O`DONNELL: All right, David, go ahead.

CORN: No, I was thinking, I mean, why not have -- why one debate when you
can have two? Particularly I think for ratings for -- for ratings for
"Fox".

The debate is going to be a big ratings booster. So if you saw a -- and
don`t do it between the top ten and the bottom ten, you mix it up.

And you know, that maybe there`s a way to come up with a, you know, final
four or round-robin way to do this, so people who poll well afterwards can
get a special, you know, post-debate appearance.

But there are so many --

REID: I think --

CORN: Creative ways --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CORN: To do this. I mean, what do you think, Joy? You --

REID: Yes --

PETERS: They`ve turned it into the --

REID: I mean and I -- yes --

(CROSSTALK)

PETERS: Turned it into the Republican version of "The Hunger Games".

(LAUGHTER)

CORN: Yes, if only, if only --

REID: It could be the survivor or something. But I think -- I mean, I
think from a -- from a pure standpoint of allowing voters to have real
choice, yes, I think all of the what?

Twenty five or thirty eight or however many candidates they`re running,
they should all get the opportunity to be heard.

There must be some way that they can maybe split it up and do an A and a B
debate. It does seem sort of odd and unfair that maybe candidates who
might be more substantive and who just don`t have the name ID.

Because let`s face it, at this point in the process, it`s all name ID --

CORN: But what about the difference between --

(CROSSTALK)

REID: Have to do really with substance --

CORN: The difference between being eighth in the polls and twelfth in the
polls is like 2, 3 percentage points --

PETERS: Oh, yes --

O`DONNELL: It`s a little --

REID: That`s right --

O`DONNELL: Margin there --

CORN: It`s really a -- so, it`s really a --

PETERS: Right --

CORN: With a -- with a field this big, getting 4 percent, 5 percent, puts
you in the running but maybe not close enough.

O`DONNELL: All right, that will have to be the end of our debate about the
debate tonight. Jeremy Peters and Joy Reid, thank you both for joining us
tonight, thank you.

REID: Thank you Lawrence --

O`DONNELL: Coming up, great news for "Simpson" fans around the world,
including a new look tonight at how Donald Trump gets "The Simpsons"
treatment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: How am I going to spend
whatever political capital that I have built up? Yes, the list is long and
my instructions to my team and my instructions to myself have always been
that we are going to squeeze every last ounce of -- of progress that we can
make when I have the privilege -- as long as I have the privilege of
holding this office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: In pursuit of every last ounce of progress tonight, President
Obama invited all of the Senate Democrats to the State Dining Room at the
White House. Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey was there and joins us now.
Senator Casey, what was the agenda for tonight`s discussion?

SEN. BOB CASEY, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: Well, Lawrence, most of it was forward
looking in terms of what we have to do together in the last 18 months or so
of the president`s second term. So, it was mostly about the future.

We have a lot of work to do, whether it is a transportation bill, or the
Export-Import Bank for example, in focusing on job creation, wages, the
whole range of domestic issues as well as international challenges.

But most of it was about working together in the future. We did have some
discussion about the way we have worked together in the past, the
Affordable Care Act being one notable example of that, and where we
disagreed, but it has been, as you know, fairly limited.

Trade being one of those areas where we disagreed, but I thought it was a
good discussion of the issues that are on the minds of a number of
senators, and the president spent a lot of time, probably the better part
of two hours.

O`DONNELL: Senator, was this one of those situations where individual
senator s could make suggestions about what the party should be pursuing
and did you have any that you were able to make in this meeting?

CASEY: Mostly on the order of folks asking him questions, and also asking
for his help. For example, we have a major challenge ahead of us, making
sure that the republicans know that we are going to do everything we can to
prevent sequestration from continuing.

And that means having some tough battles on appropriation bills. So, that
kind of discussion about getting help from the president, working with the
president where we can, but there were opportunities to raise issues. One
issue that I am working on -- have been working on for years and working on
especially the next week to ten days will be early learning. I had a
chance to talk to him briefly about that.

O`DONNELL: Yes. You have been through some amendment about universal pre-
K and you have a novel way of paying for it, at least the kind of thing
that is not normally used in education bills, and that is ending the
corporation inversions tax loop holes. Since it is a complex thing, but it
also makes it a little cross jurisdiction in terms of committees and all
that.

It makes it kind of tricky. Was there any kind of discussion about
coordinating those kinds of ideas like saying, "Let`s use the closing of
that loophole for this program instead of that program?

CASEY: Well, sometimes it did not get to that level of detail in terms of
the substance coordination, but certainly the message coordination where we
need the president`s help to move forward on a lot of these areas of our
agenda, and he needs our help, as well.

So, it was mostly along the lines of prioritizing. But I think on early
learning, Lawrence, this is a great opportunity, even though it is uphill
to get the votes to put it squarely before the U.S. Senate are, we going to
finally make a substantial investment with the states in partnership in a
full-day pre-kindergarten program for 4-year-olds and pay for it as you
know with a tax change offset that will fully pay for a program over the
course of five years.

O`DONNELL: Now, Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren were
there. They were his loudest critics on trade promotion authority. Did
they get into it much there? And, was there anything unusual about Senator
Sanders being there tonight, now that he is out there as a very popular
with the crowd presidential candidate?

CASEY: Well, it is interesting, Lawrence. You know Senator Sanders well.
And, you know, that he focuses on priorities, like Social Security, for
example. That is what he asked the president about today, about ways to
work together to strengthen, which seems counter to what some in Washington
want to do to strengthen Social Security.

So, it was a good exchange. The president was kidding him that he is on
the campaign trail and maybe he should not be spending time with him.
Maybe he should be out there. But, it was a nice friendly exchange. And,
that kind of exchange even was prevalent when the issue of trade arose.
That came up periodically.

But not in ways necessarily that were adversarial, even though many of us
will be in a different place than the president but even ways that we can
work together on issues that have some relationship to the trade agreement.
For example, what will happen with regard to tobacco.

There is a lot of news in the last couple of days about what the chamber of
commerce is doing overseas in conjunction with big tobacco companies and
there may be ways to shortchange that, so that in the final trade
agreement, which many of us will not -- a group of us will not vote for --
there maybe a way to strengthen those provisions.

O`DONNELL: Senator, David Corn has a question.

DAVID CORN, AMERICAN LIBERAL POLITICAL JOURNALIST: Good to see you,
Senator. I wondered, a big part of the president`s legacy that he is
working on is this nuclear deal with Iran. I wondered if that came up
tonight and what you think the prospects are, if indeed a deal is reached
for a major fight on the Senate side and can the Democrats and the
president win that?

CASEY: Well, we did not get, David, to that tonight because the president
just has not been briefed by the time we got there. We got there, I guess,
a little before 6:00. He had not been given the briefing yet on
developments today on the negotiation. So, we did not get an update or up-
to-the-minute sense of what is happening.

But he did make a point and I think it is an important point. For those of
us in Washington, especially those of us, who will cast a vote at some
point on this agreement in some fashion, if there is a deal or an
agreement, not to prejudge it before you, actually, take a look at what has
been agreed to.

That up to now what we have is four pages of so-called parameters, kind of
the outline of an agreement. But he was very determined to deliver that
message. I think it is the right message for today, even though we have --
we do not have any sense yet whether there will be an agreement because the
Iranians, in my judgment, seem to be changing the terms or throwing new
ideas on to the table, which creates some doubt.

But we do not know if there is going to be an agreement. If there is an
agreement, I think it is essential and it is obligatory for people like me
to spend a lot of time, not just reading the text and the annexes, but also
getting both classified and unclassified briefings to get a full
understanding of what our vote would be if there is an agreement.

O`DONNELL: Senator Bob Casey, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
I really appreciate it.

CASEY: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: And, David Corn, thank you for joining us tonight.

CORN: Good to be here.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, one of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, one of the
women who was pepper sprayed, you are seeing in this video will join us.
We will find out what has happened to the officer in this video who did
this and what it has cost the city of New York.

And, there is a new video tonight from "The Simpsons" and it is about, who
else, the man on the escalator Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMER SIMPSON, FICTIONAL MAIN CHARACTER IN THE ANIMATED T.V. SERIES, "THE
SIMPSONS": This year`s shows are classics. There is "The Laughter
Family." That is animated. Networks like animation because they do not
have to pay the actors squat!

NED FLANDERS, FICTIONAL CHARACTER, SIMPSONS` NEIGHBOR, IN THE ANIMATED T.V.
SERIES, "THE SIMPSONS": Plus, they can replace them, and no one can tell
the didly-ifference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Tonight, our short national nightmare is over. Seven weeks
ago, "The Simpsons" announced that Harry Shearer would not be returning to
the show to do the voices of Ned Flanders, Mr. Burns, Reverend Lovejoy, and
Principal Skinner to name just a few.

But, tonight, "Entertainment Weekly" is reporting that Harry Shearer will
indeed be returning to "The Simpsons." "Entertainment Weekly" reports that
Harry Shearer and the other primary voice actors have signed four-year
deals with an option for Fox to extend them for two more seasons.

And it seems "The Simpsons" just cannot wait for next season to deal with
Donald Trump. "The Simpsons" released this video is online tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FICTIONAL ANIMATED CROWD: Paid, Paid, Paid!

[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]

HOMER SIMPSONS: I am right behind him. I am not supposed to stare at it
directly, but I cannot help it. If I touch it, will it heal my baldness?
Ahh, so wispy. It is a gravity defying comb-over.

I cannot believe this was once on his ass. It is as blond as a golden
marmoset and also gray as a long, dead donkey. -- all those booby women he
has married. And, he paid less than $1 million for it. It is a steal.
Ahh!

DONALD TRUMP, FICTIONAL ANIMATED CHARACTER IN THE T.V. SERIES, "THE
SIMPSONS": I am officially running --

HOMER SIMPSONS: No. No, do not take me out. No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHING)

O`DONNELL: Up next, New York City Police Commander illegally used pepper
spray on occupy Wall Street demonstrators. The city is now paying big for
that mistake.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Remember Anthony Bologna? I did not. I did not remember his
name and I talked about him on this program a lot four years ago. But, you
remember what he did.

He is the New York City Police Officer, who was caught on video violating
police department rules by using pepper spray on some people, mostly women,
involved in the occupy Wall Street protest. Here is that video again.
Anthony bologna is the officer in the white shirt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOLOGNA, NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER: Get out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I cannot see. I cannot see. I cannot see.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Now, we are going to slow that down, so you can get a clear
view of Anthony Bologna using that pepper spray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(IN SLOW MOTION)

ANTHONY BOLOGNA, NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER: Get out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: I cannot see. I cannot see. I cannot see.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And, now, here is a video that you might remember from an angle
showing the victim`s reaction to what he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: (SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: NYPD rules say that pepper spray can only be used when an
officer, quote, "Reasonably believes it is necessary to effect an arrest of
a resisting suspect." Now, there are no resisting suspects in that video
and none of the women sprayed were actually arrested.

They were just sprayed because Anthony Bologna felt like doing it. Anthony
Bologna was no inexperienced rookie. He was one of the highest-ranking
officers on the street that day and one of the highest paid. He was a
deputy inspector, then being paid $154,000 a year.

He was supposed to be the commander on the scene. One of the commanders,
making sure that his officers were doing the job the right way, meaning
obeying the rules of Anthony Bologna`s police department. But, Deputy
Inspector Bologna became a perfect example to other officers about how not
to do the job.

Anthony Bologna should have been fired for breaking his department`s rules
and bringing worldwide disgrace to the department through that video. But
of course he was not because that is not the way the NYPD or any other
police department handles officers who break their rules, at least of all
commanders.

He lost ten vacation days, and not one penny of income. He was transferred
to Staten Island, which was in effect a promotion for him because he lives
in Staten Island and the transfer there saves him the daily commute across
New York Harbor to Manhattan.

Cops are always trying to figure out how to get transferred to Staten
Island. It is the best assignment you can get in the city. And, now New
York City taxpayers are getting the bill for Anthony Bologna`s unjustified
use of pepper spray.

$332,500 for that little outburst. That is how much the city of New York
has agreed to pay the people who sued Anthony Bologna and the city for
spraying them. None of that will come out of Anthony Bologna`s paycheck or
his very substantial pension.

A 23-year-old woman will be paid $45,000 in a separate case where New York
City taxpayers will have to pay because Anthony Bologna that day grabbed
her from behind and threw her to the pavement. And a young man will be
paid 55,000, because he was illegally arrested while shooting video of the
police actions.

Now, none of that will come out of the paychecks or the pensions of any of
the officers involved in that illegal arrest. None of them would be paid
anything. None of these victims would be paid a dime if it -- were not for
the heroic protesters there who continued to video police activity, knowing
that the police might beat them and arrest them for exercising their
constitutional right to record that video.

If Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna had not been caught on video, we would
not know his name. The NYPD would never would have investigated the case
and taken those ten vacation days away from him. Kaylee Dedrick was one of
Anthony Bologna`s victims that day. That is her in the video. She will be
our next guest after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: (SCREAMING ].

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now Kaylee Dedrick who you saw, highlighted, in that
video at Occupy Wall Street that day; and Robert Grodt, who was also on the
scene that day. Kaylee, you reached an agreement with the city for $55,000
with him and along with several other victims of this. Tell us how that
came about.

KAYLEE DEDRICK, RECEIVED $55,000 SETTLEMENT WITH NYC: You know,
originally, we went to press charges against Anthony Bologna and it proved
unsuccessful. He got the ten days vacation taken from him.

And, he was transferred to Staten Island and it was a very disappointing
outcome. So, my lawyer and I decided that we would continue with the
charges. And hope that something more direct would come out of it.

O`DONNELL: Yes and you filed a civil suit and the city realized things
could be worse if they went to trial and went to a jury. Robert Grodt,
tell us how you -- you met Kaylee that day as a result of this pepper spray
incident, did not you?

DAVID GRODT, VOLUNTEER MEDIC: Yes. I had seen her in days previous, just
kind of in passing, but that day I was down the block when the incident
happened. I was one of the street medics that was there responding to
anything like that.

It was the first real, you know, big issue that had come up. And, I
treated one girl who had come down the street towards us, and after a
little while waved me on and said, "No, you do not understand. There are
people that have it worse down the block." And me and a few other people
ran down and that is when I met Kaylee.

O`DONNELL: All right, let us turn to the happy side of this story. And,
Kaylee, you and Robert have seen a lot of each other since meeting on the
pavement there at Occupy Wall Street with you injured. Tell us about how
your lives have grown together.

DEDRICK: It has been absolutely incredible -- like maybe a year after we
met we found out that I was pregnant, and we had a daughter. And, it is
been almost three years, and she is the most incredible, amazing little
girl. It had changed our lives completely. It is amazing and it is -- it
is the best thing that could have happened. It really is.

O`DONNELL: So Robert, your Occu-baby is now an Occu-toddler, huh?

GODT: Yes. Yes. She is a little bit of a handful, but she treats us
pretty well.

O`DONNELL: Yes. This is just a beautiful outcome for this story. And, I
mean have you thought about when your daughter asks the question of how you
met, how that story is going to go down?

DEDRICK: Oh, I am very excited to share the story. I mean it is -- I feel
like not a lot of parents can explain to their child, "Oh, you know, we met
in this kind of circumstance. It is very fantastical" -- it is a
fantastical story to tell.

O`DONNELL: It really is. She is going to love it. Kaylee Dedrick and
Robert Grodt, thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Now, Chris Hayes is up next.



END

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