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All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, July 8th, 2015

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Date: July 8, 2015
Guest: Donald Trump, Joe Cammarata


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

with the Mexican people. They love me. I love them.

HAYES: Donald Trump lets loose in a wide-ranging interview.

TRUMP: It`s none of your business. It`s really none of your

HAYES: And once again, accuses Mexico of deliberately sending
criminals across the border.

TRUMP: The Mexican government forces many bad people into our
country, because they`re smart. They`re smarter than our leaders.

HAYES: The former president of Mexico will join me to respond.

Then, breaking news as the police chief of Baltimore loses his job.

Plus, Bill Cosby`s accusers see hope for justice.

And Tom Selleck of stealing water during California`s drought.

TOM SELLECK, ACTOR: No, I can explain!

HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Well, the more Donald Trump`s business empire continues to suffer, as
a result of his comments about undocumented immigrants, the more his
political future seems to brighten. The celebrity chef Jose Andres
announced today he is backing out of a deal to open the flagship restaurant
at Trump`s forthcoming new hotel in Washington, D.C., adding to a growing
list of businesses to cut ties with Trump over remarks many have seen as

At the same time, a brand new poll today from left-leaning Public
Policy Polling shows trump in first place, first place in North Carolina,
among GOP primary voters, more evidence he is a force to be reckoned with
in the Republican field.

NBC correspondent Katy Tur got a chance to sit down with the candidate
earlier today. What follows is one of the most bizarre political
interviews I`ve ever seen.


KATY TUR, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Why are we in New York? Why aren`t
we out in the campaign trail?

TRUMP: Oh, I`ve been to Iowa many times. I`ve been to New Hampshire
many, many times. I love the people there and we`ve had tremendous
success. We`ve had tremendous crowds.

Nobody gets as many standing ovations and, you know, I spent a lot of
time out.

I was in South Carolina recently and we`re all over.

I`m going -- this weekend, I`ll be with Clint Eastwood in California.
A tremendous group of people.

I`m going to Arizona this weekend. I`ll be all over the place.

TUR: You were one of the only candidates who didn`t campaign during
the Fourth of July. Pretty much all of them were in New Hampshire. You
were there. You had no campaign events really this week. No campaign
events planned for next week that we know of so far.

You`re not campaigning that much. How can anybody take you seriously
if you`re not out there showing your face?

TRUMP: Because I`m doing television with you and I am up there
actually a lot. And I watch them up there walking the streets, and it
didn`t mean anything. I was actually getting more news coverage than
anybody else by far because I`m the one that brought up the whole situation
and the whole mess with immigration and what the Mexican government is
doing to us.

So, you know, I didn`t have to be and I would have been if they wanted
me to. And I just decided that probably it wasn`t necessary. I`m going up
actually next week and I`ll be in Iowa many times over the next couple of
months and New Hampshire many, many times.

TUR: Let`s talk immigration since that`s the hot topic. Yesterday,
there was news coming out from "The Washington Post" about your hotel site
in D.C. There are a lot of immigrants working on that, including some who
say --

TRUMP: Legal immigrants.

TUR: -- that they are not here -- they`re not legally here. Do you -

TRUMP: They didn`t say that. If you read the article it really
doesn`t say that. In fact, the writer was very surprised that they weren`t
able to find anybody. We have a very strong system.

I have a contractor, that`s one of the biggest in the nation doing it.
So far, they`re doing a very job. They have a very strong verification
system. And the whole story was about, you know, they thought they were
going to find people and they weren`t able to find --

TUR: They did find some people who said that they were undocumented.

TRUMP: Well, they certainly didn`t write them down and write their
names and we`re very strong on that. And, you know, with 11 million to 31
million illegal immigrants in the country, it`s pretty hard to be in a
position where you actually can`t find anybody.

That`s going to be a fantastic job. That was sitting there for years,
like 30 years, empty, vacant, a disastrous situation. I took it over.
We`re going to have one of the great hotels of the world. We`re also very
proud of the building and the building practices.

TUR: Are you concerned for the people working for you to put these
buildings up? One of the workers told "The Washington Post," "Do you think
that we`re hanging out of the eighth floor window and raping or selling
drugs? We`re risking our lives and our health. These fumes are toxic."

Do you have a reaction to that when somebody says that about your job

TRUMP: No. I was totally misquoted. I could read. I could give you
a copy of the speech. I could read it to you.

I was so misquoted that it`s incredible. I`m talking about the
Mexican government forces many bad people into our country because they`re
smart. They`re smarter than our leaders and their negotiators are far
better than what we have, to a degree that you wouldn`t believe. They`re
forcing people into our country.

This guy that killed the wonderful young woman from San Francisco, he
went back to Mexico, they forced him out. They forced people into our
country. And they are drug dealers and they are criminals of all kinds.

We are taking Mexico`s problems. Mexico is beating us on trade and
beating us at the border. But Mexico doesn`t want to take these people.
So, what do they do? They send them to our stupid politicians and we have
sanctuary cities and all of this nonsense.

I`ve been saying this a long time, Katy, and it is a disgrace. And,
frankly, if I didn`t bring it up, you wouldn`t even be talking about
immigration right now.

TUR: When was the last time you were at the border?

TRUMP: I`ve been to the border three or four times over the years.
And I have many people that live around the area. I`m going to Arizona
this weekend where they want to talk to me because Arizona is -- somebody
said I`m the most popular person in Arizona because of my stance. And I`m
going to be there this weekend.

TUR: When was the last time that you were there?

TRUMP: Probably three years ago.

TUR: So, how do you -- if you haven`t been there in three years, how
do you know that it is such --

TRUMP: Because I knew it was bad then and it is worse now. It was
terrible then and it`s worse now. It`s worse now than it`s ever been.

We don`t even have a border. People are just flowing through like
water. There was no border right now.

TUR: The murder rate in El Paso, Texas, right on the border, is the
lowest murder rate for any of the big cities in the country.

TRUMP: Don`t try to convince me that there is no crime, that it`s

The people that are being forced in, and these aren`t just Mexican
people. The people being forced, Mexico doesn`t want people. They are
forcing them into our country. And we`re taking them and we`re putting
them in our jails and our hospitals and we`re paying them money through
different sources.

It is a disgrace. Don`t tell me about safety. Are you trying to
justify safety on the border? I don`t think so.

TUR: We have a lower incarceration rate for Mexican immigrants and
illegal immigrants than we do any U.S.-born citizens.

TRUMP: It`s a wrong statistic. Go check your numbers. It`s totally
wrong. It sounds good.

TUR: It`s Pew Research.

TRUMP: It sounds good. It`s a wrong statistic. Check your numbers.

TUR: So, do you think --

TRUMP: And by the way, I`m not -- I have great relationship with the
Mexican people. I have many people working for me. You can look at the
job in Washington. I have many legal immigrants working for me. Many of
them come from Mexico. They love me. I love them.

And I`ll tell you something. If I get the nomination, I`ll win the
Latino vote. I will win it, because I`m going to create jobs.

Hillary Clinton is not going to be able to create jobs, I will tell
you right now. Neither is Jeb Bush going to create jobs. I will create
jobs and the Latinos will have jobs they don`t have right now. And I will
win that vote, and everyone thinks, oh, gee, Trump is going to not do well
with that vote. I`ll do better with vote than anybody. I have thousands
of them working for me in different places that I have all over the
country. I will win that vote.

TUR: Why -- why should people believe your numbers when you come out
and say they`re committing crimes and they`re in our jails and they`re
murdering us and taking our jobs? A few years ago, you led the birther
movement. You sent investigators out to Hawaii to find out whether or not
Obama was not born here. And it turned out to not be true.

TRUMP: Well, I don`t know. According to you it`s not true. I don`t

TUR: He released his birth certificate.

TRUMP: You know, if you believe that, it`s fine. I don`t care. It`s
an old subject.

I`m about jobs, I`m about security, I`m about fixing the military, I`m
about taking care of our vets. I`m about things that you don`t to have
bring up old subjects.

Whether he did or not, who knows? A lot of people don`t agree with
you on that, by the way. But I`m really about economic development and I`m
about jobs. That`s what we have to start talking about.

And I`m about beating ISIS militarily and not acting like a bunch of
babies like we`re acting right now.

TUR: Do you have a plan for ISIS?

TRUMP: I do have a plan actually.

TUR: What is it?

TRUMP: I would knock the hell out of oil areas because they`re rich
as can be. They`re building a hotel in Iraq. They took over a hotel.
They`re renovating a hotel in Iraq. They`re renovating another hotel in a
different location. They have nothing but money. It is coming out of
their ears and they`re getting most of their money from oil.

TUR: Would you send ground troops?

TRUMP: And if you remember -- excuse me, Katy -- if you remember,
number one, I said you shouldn`t go into Iraq any way because you`re going
to destabilize the Middle East, that`s exactly what happened. Then I said,
once you`re in, if you`re leaving, keep the oil.

Well, ISIS has the oil. And Iran has the oil. If they would have
listened to me, and I was very strong. The Bush people in 2004 sent people
to my office because they didn`t want me to say what I was saying. And I`m
more into the military, by the way, than anybody. But you have to know
when and where to use the military.

We made a tremendous mistake. We spent $2 trillion, thousands of
lives, wounded warriors all over the place, who I love, by the way, all
over the place. And what do we have?

We`re not even there anymore. And Iran is taking over Iraq. In fact,
they`re meeting right now. Iran is taking over Iraq.

We got nothing for it. Zero. And it is really a sad situation. With
ISIS, you kill them at the head. You take the oil. That`s where they`re
getting their money. If you bomb the hell out of it, you bomb the hell out
of it. You`ve got to stop their wealth. They have tremendous wealth.

TUR: What about civilians?

TRUMP: I`m talking about oil. I`m talking about oil areas. I`m not
talking about civilian areas.

TUR: Civilians are near oil areas.

TRUMP: Oh, give me a break, Katy. Go ahead. Next question.

TUR: Let`s say domestically, a lot of people are killed by gun
violence in this country. What would you do about that?

TRUMP: You have a lot of people that are killed by guns. But I`m a
big Second Amendment person. You know, when the prisoners escaped up in
New York, which was a tragedy in itself, people that were against guns
said, thank God we have guns.

I remember seeing on television a woman saying, I was always fighting
with my husband. He wanted guns. He felt so strongly about guns and I
would fight him. Now, we have a gun on drawer, a gun in every table in
case these guys broke into this house.

It`s very interesting. No, I`m a Second Amendment person.

TUR: What about people that walk into churches and shoot people, or
walk in the schools and shoot people?

TRUMP: They`re sick people. Those are very, very sick people.
They`ll be able to get something somewhere.

TUR: Are you not more concerned about them than illegal immigrants
coming in here and killing people?

TRUMP: I`m concerned about everything. I`m concerned about the
country. Our country is going to hell.

I`m concerned about everything, OK? Our country is being beaten in
trade deals by China, by Japan, by Mexico. Mexico is the new China.
Mexico is killing us in trade.

We`re being beaten at every front. We`re being beaten militarily. We
have a military that every time we send equipment to our so-called allies,
one bullet is shot in the air. We lost 2,300 armor-plated Humvees, not two
or three or seven. We lost 2,000 -- in one day, 2,300 Humvees. I say,
that`s impossible. How can you lose that many?

TRUMP: A bullet gets fired into the air and the people that we`re
giving these Humvees to, they run like bandits and the enemy takes them
over. The enemy has better equipment than we have because we`re foolish.

TUR: You`re for the second amendment. Do you have a gun in.

TRUMP: I have the license to have a gun. Yes, I do.

TUR: Do you own one?

TRUMP: Yes, I do.

TUR: Do you use it? Gun range?

TRUMP: That`s none of your business. It`s really none of your
business. I have a license to have a gun.

TUR: Gun control.

TRUMP: What are you talking about?

TUR: Or stronger background checks.

TRUMP: Yes, I have a gun. Excuse me, yes, I have a gun and yes, I
have a permit to have a gun.

TUR: Stronger back ground checks. What about that? Is there any
steps that you would make it harder to get a gun?

TRUMP: The problem is once you get into that, you start getting into
a situation, the slippery slope where all of a sudden, you`re going to
violate the Second Amendment. I don`t want to do anything on violate the
Second Amendment. To me, the Second Amendment is very important.

TUR: I want to talk about some -- what some of the Republicans have
been saying about you just this week. You`ve been very divisive for the
party. You have Charles Krauthammer who`s called you a rodeo clown.

TRUMP: Well, Charles Krauthammer is a totally overrated person, who
really dislikes personally. I never met him. I mean, he is a totally
overrated guy, doesn`t know what he`s doing.

He was in favor of the war in Iraq. He wanted to go into Iraq and he
wanted to stay there forever.

So, you know, these are overrated people. I see who it is. You can
mention name after name.

By the way, are you going to mention the ones that do like Trump? You
don`t do that, do you?

TUR: Goldberg has compared to a failed man who mistook flattery for
insight. George Will --

TRUMP: If I`m a failed man, I`m worth a fortune. I built -- you
know, what`s interesting? I went to best school, got the best, great
marks, everything else, I went out and made a fortune, a big fortune,
tremendous fortune. I`ll be announcing that in about a week because I have
to file my papers, bigger than people even understand. I have a book
called "The Art of the Deal". I do "The Apprentice." "The Art of the
Deal" was like the number one business book of all time, or just about. I
think it was.

And I do "The Apprentice" and NBC is angry at me because they renew
"The Apprentice" and I wouldn`t do it, and that`s one of the reasons that
NBC is so angry with me.

And then I get called by a guy that can`t buy a pair of pants, I get
called names. Give me a break.

TUR: So, you will release your financials on time.

TRUMP: Yes. I think we`re going to have it on time. In fact --

TUR: Eight days from now.

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. I`m allowed a 45-day extension and
another 45-day extension. I don`t expect to be using the extensions. You
know, on time is really not on time, because you`re allowed automatically
two 45-day extensions. I don`t think I`m going to be using them.

I should be filing. They`re very complicated. You know, these papers
were not meant for me because of the complexity and the bigness of what I
have. But we should be releasing them ahead of schedule.

TUR: Where did you get your money from?

TRUMP: I made it the old-fashioned way, in real estate, in real
estate. I made a lot of money doing everything I did. I made a lot of
money with "The Apprentice". I made a lot of money in real estate. I made
a lot of money -- everything I did. I`ve had great success.

TUR: What about the company that have backed away from you? Nine by
our counts. If you want to count the city of New York that`s looking at
its contracts, 10.

Are you concerned that you`re going to come to a point where you`re
going to lose so much business that this isn`t worth it?

TRUMP: Now, I`m not concerned. Let me tell you what`s worth. If it
weren`t for immigration, OK, you wouldn`t even hear the word immigration if
it wasn`t for Donald Trump. Immigration is a word. Illegal immigration, I
brought up the whole subject up.

In fact, your friends at FOX gave great credit for that the other day.
They said, if it wasn`t for Donald Trump, we wouldn`t even be talking about
illegal immigration or even immigration right now.

And I`ve been given -- and then you had the horrible tragedy in San
Francisco with the young woman who was shot with a person that should have
never been here.

Now, this is too important. Yes, I`m losing some contracts. Who
cares? People politically, they are weak and they want to be politically
correct. Some of them have already apologized to me. They made a mistake.

And you know what? That`s fine, because compared to what I have.
First of all, my company is a massive company and it`s a very rich company.
But compared to what I have, it doesn`t matter.

Most importantly -- even if it was a huge amount of money, I would
still do this. Now, when people run for -- as an example, when these
people are running for president, they don`t lose anything. A politician
doesn`t lose anything when he or she runs for president. They run, they
lose, they win, they don`t lose anything.

When I run, as a successful person, I lose a tremendous amount. I
mean, the kind of money that I lose on all these deals that you`re reading
about, now, a lot of them are blown out of proportion, like they had ESPN.
ESPN said, do you know what it was? It was a ballroom evening. An evening
in a ballroom, that`s already replaced.

They have NASCAR left. That was another thing. I guess ESPN maybe
was a little golf tournament. NASCAR was a ballroom, it was a banquet.
They make it a tremendous deal.

TUR: If it`s hurting you, why do it?

TRUMP: Katy, let me just say, the press is very, very dishonest. And
I think people are wiser than the press.

TUR: If it`s hurting you, why do it?

TRUMP: Because I want to make America great again. Honestly, very
simple, our country is in trouble. We owe $18 trillion going up to $21
trillion very soon. Once we`re $24 trillion, we are Greece. We are Greece
on steroids. We are large scale version.

I want to make our country great again. We have the potential to have
that great spirit that we once had. We don`t have it anymore. Our country
is a mess.


HAYES: Much more of Katy Tur`s interview with the man apparently
making a lot of sense to a fair number of Republican primary voters, Donald
Trump, coming up. Including his response to charges he`s damaging the
Republican Party, and his plan to beef up security on the Mexican border.


TRUMP: I will make that wall impenetrable, OK? Impenetrable. You
don`t have to worry about how high it will be. And Mexico will pay for
that wall.



TRUMP: Everybody come in, killers, criminals, drug dealers,
everybody. If you listen to Hillary, everybody is going to be flowing
through the nation. They are sort of now anyway. But if you listen to
Hillary, she is so weak on immigration. We will have a crime wave like
you`ve never seen before.


HAYES: Donald Trump`s opinion of his potential competition and much,
much more, when we come back.



GEORGE WILL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Ask yourself this thought
experiment. If Donald Trump were a Democratic mole placed in the
Republican Party to disrupt things, how would his behavior be different? I
don`t think it would be.


HAYES: Conservative commentator George Will just one of the member of
the Republican establishment to criticize Donald Trump`s impact on this

In his interview with NBC News correspondent Katy Tur, Trump fired


TUR: George Will said you could be a Democratic operative.

TRUMP: George Will is another one. He was in Mar-A-Lago years ago.
He spoke. I didn`t want to listen to him speak and he`s never forgiven me
for the fact that I didn`t show up, because I find him to a very boring
guy. So, why do I want to listen to George Will for?

I listen to the people. I get the biggest crowds, I get the biggest
standing ovations, and I guess you see it in the poll numbers.

And I don`t even care about it. Look, maybe I`m wasting my time and
it costs me some money in terms of some deals. The big money is the
opportunity, because while I`m wasting time talking to you, which is, you
know, essentially one sided, but that`s fine. But while I`m wasting time
talking to you, I could be doing deals on other things, so I`m losing out
on hundreds of millions of dollars.

Nobody else loses. When they run for office, they don`t lose. A
politician doesn`t lose. I do lose. But I want to make -- I mean, just to
answer the question. I`m running because I want to make our country great

TUR: Republicans say that you`re hurting the party. Do you think
you`re hurting the party? If you divide them so severely, will you be able
to get the nomination and then become president?

TRUMP: Well, on FOX, they say that I did a great service, because I`m
the one that brought up the whole discussion on immigration and I think I`m
helping the party greatly.

And I actually think that -- if you look at Mitt Romney, who was a
great disappointment because he ran a terrible campaign and especially in
the last month, he totally collapsed, he choked. Something happened to him
but he choked, pure and simple.

If you look at him, many of the conservative Republicans just stayed
home. They didn`t want to do anything. I mean, they stayed home, they
didn`t vote for him.

If those people got out and voted, he would have won. But you had a
lot of Republicans and conservative Republicans stay home because they
weren`t energized.

TUR: The Latino vote ultimately --


TRUMP: Let me tell but the Latino vote. I will win the Latino vote
because I`m going to put them to work. I`m going to be able to get jobs.
I will take jobs back from China, I`ll take jobs back from Japan, where
they`re making so many cars -- I mean, millions and millions of cars. What
do we get? We send very little to Japan by comparison.

I`ll take jobs back from Mexico. Mexico is going to become the car
capital of the world the way they`re building.

Ford is now building a $2.5 billion plant, $2.5 billion in Mexico.
They`re going to sell cars in the United States and parts and trucks in the
United States. Excuse me, how does that help us?

In Tennessee, they just lost a plan that was going to be built in
Tennessee. It went to Mexico.

So, Mexico is going to take care of their people because as I said
before, their leaders are smarter than our leaders and their negotiators
are far better. And that will never happen if I`m president.

TUR: You have 17 percent of the population that is Latino. A lot of
them say they`re very offended by what you`re saying was a misquote from
yours or a misunderstanding.

TRUMP: Not a misquote. No, it was --


TUR: Do you want to apologize?

TRUMP: No, there`s nothing to apologize for. There`s nothing to
apologize for.

Read my statement. My statement is referring to Mexico and they`re
pushing a lot of bad people into our country and we`re taking care of a lot
of criminals that shouldn`t be in our country. And you saw that the other
day in San Francisco. We`re taking care of these people.

When people read my quote, they say, oh, it`s sort of interesting. I
made my presidential announcement right here in this building. I made it.
Everybody gave me great reviews -- some great, great reviews, some good

It wasn`t until a week later that people started criticizing that one
statement. And I`m referring to Mexico.

I have great respect for the country of Mexico. I love the Mexican
people and their spirit. But the country of Mexico is killing us. The
country of Mexico is taking our jobs. They`re killing us at the border.
They`re taking advantage of the fact that we have stupid negotiators.

We have very stupid people in our country negotiating for us. And we
have leaders that don`t know what they`re doing. So, I respect that. I`m
not angry at Mexico. I`m angry at our leadership for not putting our right
people to negotiate.

TUR: Why wouldn`t you keep your manufacturing here? Your ties, your
suits, why would you not have them made here?

TRUMP: Because China so manipulates their currency that it`s very
hard to find companies that can do business in the United States.

TUR: You`re a billionaire though. Why would you not move it here
just for having it in America?

TRUMP: Excuse me, because I`m a businessman.

Let me just tell you something and it`s very interesting. You`re not
bringing anything new. You`re acting like you`re the great reporter, blah
blah blah.

You`re not bringing -- every speech I make, I talk about I always hate
that I have to have my ties made in China. And do you know why they`re
made in China? Because China manipulates their currency to such a degree.

They just manipulated it again two weeks ago. I never thought I would
see it so fast again and again.

They`re taking our jobs, they`re taking our manufacturing, they`re
destroying us. By the way, we`re rebuilding China.

Do you know what they do? They loan us back the money. We owe $1.4
trillion to China.

So, they take our jobs, they take our manufacturing, and then they
give us money and we have to pay them interest.

TUR: How do you get that money back? How do you recover from this?

TRUMP: You take jobs back from China. You take jobs back from Japan.
You charge Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia makes a billion dollars a day.
Every time there`s -- if you think these people were after Yemen, they`re
not after Yemen. They`re after the oil in Saudi Arabia.

You take a look at that border. This was the country that Barack
Obama said, oh, wow, we had a great victory in Yemen. Great victory, it`s
all over. Great victory, right?

A week later, it totally blew up in his face. That border is a long
border right along Saudi Arabia. You look at what happens. Just like I
predicted what was going to happen in Iraq and all these other candidates
that I`m running, they just (INAUDIBLE) -- you look at somebody like Jeb
Bush. It took him five days, five days, to give a proper answer on Iraq.
He was changing his answer every day.

How is somebody like that going on negotiate with?

TUR: International diplomacy is a delicate thing. You have to watch
what you say. And how can anybody expect that you`ll get into the White
House and watch your mouth when you were so widely panned for these Mexico
comments? How were you going to be hold your tongue and not anger other

TRUMP: So, I will tell you this. I made a lot of money against
China. I made a lot of money in all of these countries. I have great
relationships with these countries.

If you take a look at what is going on in terms of relationship with
the United States, everybody hates us.

Hillary Clinton was the worst secretary of state in the history of the
United States. Hillary was the worst in the history of the United States.
There is never been a secretary of state so bad as Hillary.

The world blew up around us. We lost everything including all
relationships. There wasn`t one good thing that came out of that
administration or her being secretary of state.

I have great relationships. If you look at "Businessweek" magazine,
they did a story on the 10 things that China most wants. One of the 10
things, anything Trump. Anything Trump. And I`m the toughest critic there
is on China.

People have to respect you.

TUR: What do you think of Hillary Clinton as the president if she
wins the nomination --

TRUMP: I think she would be a terrible president. She was the worst
secretary of state in the history of our nation. Why would she be a good
president? I think she would be a terrible president.

TUR: She says you`re too divisive on immigration. The Republican
Party is too divisive on immigration.

TRUMP: Hillary is weak on immigration. I may be divisive on
immigration, but she`s weak on immigration, which is far worse.

Hillary would let everybody coming in -- killer, criminals, drug
dealers, everybody. If you listen to Hillary, everybody is going to be
flowing through nation. They are sort of now any way. But if you listen
to Hillary, she is so weak on immigration, we will have a crime wave like
you`ve never seen before.

TUR: Immigration is down. Why is this such a big topic for you right

TRUMP: Immigration is a very big topic. Take a look at all the crime
that`s being committed. Go take a look at -- look, I`m going to Arizona --

TUR: The research says the crime does not match what you`re saying.

TRUMP: It depends on whose research.

TUR: The research -- the Pew Research, which is independent, says --

TRUMP: Don`t be naive. You`re a very naive person.

TUR: The Pew Research says that there for immigrants on the whole --

TRUMP: Come on, try getting it out. Try getting it out.

TUR: I`ll get it out.

TRUMP: I mean, I don`t know if you`re going to put on this
television, but you don`t even know what you`re talking about. Try getting
it out. Go ahead.

TUR: Immigrants commit less crime than U.S.-born citizens. There are
less immigrants on our jails than --

TRUMP: You know what, number one, I disagree with it, and number two,
whether it is true or not, illegal immigrants -- I`m talking about illegal
immigrants. I`m talking about illegal. I`m an immigrant, you`re an
immigrant, we`re all immigrants...

TUR: Illegal immigrants commit less crime -- other than coming
through illegally.

TRUMP: I`m talking about illegal immigrants are causing tremendous
crime, tremendous crime. And nobody wants to talk about it.

And that`s why Fox, at least Fox. And you won`t believe this perhaps,
but at least Fox is being honest because they`re now talking about it. And
if I didn`t bring up the subject a number of weeks ago, we wouldn`t even be
talking about illegal immigration right now.

TUR: If you found out that you had an illegal immigrant working for
you and they are a hard worker, how would you treat them?

TRUMP: I think that I would treat them probably -- I would have to
tell them, you have to go back, I think.

TUR: What if they were supporting their family?

TRUMP: I would probably tell them you have to go back. I mean,
they`re illegal immigrants. I probably would say you have to go back.

Do I like doing that? No. I`m a nice person believe it or not. I
mean, I have a heart. But I would probably tell them, you have to go back.

Look, we have anywhere 11 to 31 million -- our country doesn`t even
know, can you believe the statistics are from 11 to 31 million illegal
immigrants in our country. We don`t even know. OK, we don`t even know.
Nobody is able to tell me the number. It used to be 11 now. Now they
think it`s 31 million. Nobody even knows. It is a very sad situation.

But you have to create a strong border. And if I didn`t bring this

TUR: Who pays for that wall?

TRUMP: Mexico.

TUR: How do you get Mexico to pay that wall?

TRUMP: Only if I`m president.

TUR: How does that happen?

TRUMP: Because Mexico is making a fortune off the United States. I
would get them to pay for the wall. Believe me they will pay for the wall.

TUR: I just don`t understand how you would.

TRUMP: And I watch all these pundits that don`t have brains, I watch
all of them say, oh, Trump can`t get them -- I built a great empire through
a negotiation. You have to be able to negotiate.

Mexico is making a fortune off the United States, a fortune. In
addition to sending a lot of people here, forcing, forcing, and I`m talking
about their bad people. Again, I love the Mexican people. I love their
spirit. Many of them work for me right now. I respect Mexico, but their
leaders and their negotiators are too smart for our leaders and our

TUR: How high would the wall be?

TRUMP: I will make that wall impenetrable. Impenetrable. You don`t
have to worry about how high it will be and Mexico will pay for that wall.


TRUMP: Thank you very much.

TUR: I really appreciate it.

TRUMP: Thank you. A great honor.


TUR: It`s fun when you...

TRUMP: Well, fun.

It`s too bad that she mentions only the negatives, you don`t want to
mention the positives.

TUR: You know, let me ask you, put the mic back on. I`m going to ask
you one more. I forgot to ask it.

TRUMP: What is it?

TUR: I want to know why you think voters like you so much and why
you`re getting big crowds. But your microphone is not on.

TRUMP: That question I can handle.

TUR: You have two minutes left of tape.

So, you say you`re drawing these big crowds and I was there. You drew
a big crowd.

TRUMP: The way you put it, everything is so negative I`m not saying
I`m drawing -- you`re saying I`m drawing them.

TUR: You`re number two. Why do people respond to you so much?

TRUMP: Well, I`m actually number one in Huffington Post and some
others and the new polls haven`t even come out yet.

TUR: Why are they responding to you so much?

TRUMP: Because I tell truth. I say what`s happening. I made a
tremendous fortune. And that`s the kind of mentality we need in this

Jeb Bush will never take us to the promise land. He doesn`t have it.

Hillary will never take us to the promised land. Hillary will be a
disaster as a president.

Jeb will be very poor as a president. No energy. We need somebody
that can make great deals with China, with Japan, with Mexico. We need
somebody that really
understands and cherishes the military. I actually think I`ll be the jobs
president, but I actually think I`ll be actually even better in term of the

I will create military where nobody is going to mess around with the
United States.

TUR: do you think it is just name recognition?

TRUMP: No. I think it`s the fact that I say things that people agree

TUR: More people than maybe we expect to agree with you, or the
establishment might expect?

TRUMP: People like what I say, they agree with what I say. I have
had tremendous success. If I didn`t have the success, I think it wouldn`t
be the same thing. I`ve had tremendous success. They understand I`ve had
tremendous success and they respect me.

And what I`m telling -- I don`t need this. I don`t need this. What
I`m doing this for the country. I want to make America great again. We
have a last shot. If we keep going way it`s going, America is going to be
permanently scarred.


HAYES: All right, if you thought we were completely through the
looking glass, hold on, we`re going to keep going further. Still ahead,
reaction to Donald
Trump`s immigration comments from none other than the man who used to run
that country, the former president, Felipe Calderon of Mexico. Stick


HAYES: We have a response from Donald Trump`s presidential campaign
to the interview we just ran with NBC`s Katy Tur, which included an
exchange concerning a Washington Post story about a Trump hotel site in
Washington, D.C. reportedly being built in part by undocumented immigrants.


TRUMP: The whole was about -- you know, they thought they were going
to find people and they weren`t able to find anyone...

TUR: No, they did find some people who said that they were

TRUMP: Well, they certainly didn`t write them down and write their


HAYES: The Washington Post story did in fact find that many of the
laborers at Trump`s hotel site said they had crossed the U.S.-Mexico border

In a statement, the Trump campaign said that a contractor overseas
construction of the site and that, quote, our contractors are required to
have prospective employees produce documentation that establishes identity
and employment eligibility in compliance with immigration law.

When we come back, I asked the former president of Mexico Felipe
Calderon to respond to Trump`s claim that the Mexican government is sending
Mexico`s worst citizens to America. Stay with us.


HAYES: One of the strangest claims Donald Trump has been making on
immigration is that the Mexican government has some sort of an active
program to select and then ship Mexican criminals and rapists to the U.S.
Today, as we saw in his interview with Katy Tur, he was at it again.


TRUMP: I`m talking about the Mexican government forces many bad
people into our country, because they`re smart. They`re smarter than our
leaders and their negotiators are far better than what we have like to a
degree that you wouldn`t
believe. They`re forcing people into our country.

This guy that killed the wonderful young woman from San Francisco, he
went back to Mexico. They forced him out. They force people into our
country and they are drug dealers and they are criminals of all kinds. We
are taking Mexico`s problems.


HAYES: Now, this afternoon I happened to be talking to the former
Mexican president, Felipe Calderon, the man who was head of the Mexican
government from 2006 to 2012. And I asked him to responsibility to that


about this guy. He doesn`t deserve any more comment, because he is only
trying to get votes. And I won`t provide him more attention. He doesn`t
deserve it.

I can comment in general on immigration. Mexican people are really
hard working people everywhere. Probably we cannot understand the
prosperity of the United States last century without the Mexican worker
that came to here.

You are talking about government like mine, let me tell you that
through providing more opportunities for kids, for instance, we created in
my tenure, more than 140 new universities, more than 1,100 new high
schools, and all of them tuition free.

And with that, for instance, Mexico is graduating more than 100,000
engineers a year which is providing an incredible boost in competitiveness
for manufacturing industry and at the same time it is opening opportunities
for kids.

We build modern, almost 2,000 new hospitals pr clinics in Mexican
territory in six years. We provided with health care for almost all the
people there.

For these reasons, I know there -- for instance even the recession in
The States. The net rate of immigration of Mexican workers to U.S. went to
zero two years in a row -- 2010, 2011, 2012. My first time ever.

So on the contrary, Mexican government are working really hard in
order to provide to the Mexican people the opportunities. And I hope that
in the future,
the only way in which the people -- the people will not need to emigrate
under the basis of necessity.

So I strongly recommend to stay far away from the extremism that only
are trying to sit -- to seat hate between countries that are friends,
allies, neighbors, and the only way in which we can prosper both sides of
the border is working together, putting aside all those voices that,
because self interests in
some cases, vested interests, just trying to separate us from this very
important alliance we need to forge.


HAYES: We`ll have more from my interview with former Mexican
President Felipe Calderon in which we talk about things other than Donald
Trump tomorrow.

But first tonight, breaking news out of Baltimore as a police
commissioner loses his job and Tom Selleck investigated over accusations of
water theft during California`s drought. That`s ahead.


HAYES: Big news out of Baltimore where Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake
has fired the police commission of Baltimore following a reason surge of
homicides. Commissioner Anthony Batts was dismissed today, replaced by
deputy commissioner Kevin Davis until a permanent replacement is found.


we get the crime surge under control, and when the focus is on repeatedly
on the leadership, on who supports the leader, who doesn`t support the
leader, that`s attention that we`re all taking away from the essential work
that we all have to do together.


HAYES: Now, the mayor`s decision came hours after the police union,
the fraternal order of police, released a report that heavily criticized
the police department leadership during last month`s rioting, which
followed the death
of Freddie Gray who died after injuries receiving while in police custody.

That police union, which has been quite critical of the mayor, also
highlights a claim by the police department`s media section that there was
a quote,
credible threat by gang members against police officers. This on -- during
the riots, a claim that was roundly debunked.

The mayor, however, sharply criticized the police union report and
said it did not play a role in her decision. Police say there have been
155 homicides this is year, a 48 percent increase over last year.


HAYES: Actor Tom Selleck has found himself caught up in his own
personal Watergate. Accused of allegedly pilfering truck loads of water
for his southern California estate. The California municipal water
district filed suit Monday against actor Tom Selleck and his wife saying,
"Selleck had huge amounts of water from a public hydrant delivered to his
sprawling Hidden Valley ranch, which contains an avocado farm."

Now according to the suit, this has happened on more than a dozen
occasions since 2013, even though the water district sent Selleck a pair of
cease and desist letters.

According to Monday`s complaint, as recently as March of this year, a
commercial water truck was spotted filling up at the same public hydrant
and delivering water to Selleck`s estate.

Calleguas municipal water district is suing Selleck for more than
$21,000 to cover the cost of the investigation and other damages to be

The good news for Selleck is that the Ventura County sheriff`s
department told NBC news, they`ve looked into the allegations and were
unable to establish a crime was committed.

All In reached out to Tom Selleck for comment, but did not hear back.
California officials have been cracking down on water theft as the state
enters its
fourth year as an absolutely historic drought. And as conflicts over who
to use the dwindling water supply get increasingly heated and high stakes.

And that is why All In is heading west for a special series of shows,
live from California, starting this Monday, taking an in-depth look at the
state`s water wars. You do not want to miss it.



HAYES: What would you like to see happen to Mr. Cosby?

P.J. MASTEN, COSBY ACCUSER: I would like to see his star taken off
the Hollywood Walk of Fame. I would like to see his statues taken off
Disney properties and I would like to see him held accountable for all the
rapes that did he to all these women.


HAYES: All right, 30 minutes after we went off the air, after that
interview aired, the Bill Cosby statue was indeed taken off the lot of Walt
Disney World. And according to Deadline Hollywood, Cosby he`s been dropped
by his agent CAA as the world`s of entertainment and pop culture are just
starting to reckon with the possibility that this beloved celebrated comic
was a serial predator.

And the question now is whether there will be any legal ramifications
following a judge`s release of a 10-year-old deposition in which Cosby
admitted to
getting seven prescriptions for Quaaludes during the 1970s for the purpose
of using the drug on women with whom he wanted to have sex.

Cosby has never been charged, has denied these allegations in prior
statements and has declined to offer further comment in the past few days.

But civil suits have been filed against Mr. Cosby, signed by some of
his accusers. Joining me now, Joe Cammarata, the attorney for three women
who are suing Bill Cosby, Tamara Green, Taris Serenice (ph) and Linda
Traits (ph).

Joe, what is the status of the civil lawsuit that you have filed on
behalf of your clients?

JOE CAMMARATA, ATTORNEY: We have, excuse me. Pardon my voice.

We have filed a civil lawsuit for defamation. Mr. Cosby has filed a
motion to dismiss that case, to have it thrown out of court. And we`re
waiting for the court`s ruling on whether or not the case will continue.

HAYES: What are the possible legal avenues to be pursued here?
You`re seeing conversations about statutes of limitations. A prosecutor
from Pennsylvania
who had first looked into the case that sort of spawned this lawsuit talked
to my colleague Ari Melber and talked about the possibility of reopening

I mean, where do you think this goes legally?

CAMMARATA: Well, certainly the women that have been called liars
have, within the last year or so, have a viable claim within the period
within which they can file a lawsuit for defamation. As for the assault
claims that happened 30, 40 years ago, I think they would be hard pressed
to assert a claim for sexual assault given this late date.

HAYES: This is a key point. There has been, there have been very
pointed responses from the Cosby camp in response to many of these saying
that essentially these allegations are fabricated. You`re representing
women who were essentially called liars. And your lawsuit is specifically
about that response, it`s about the defamation that you say occurred.

CAMMARATA: It absolutely is. The women came forward with their
allegations against Mr. Cosby and they were met with statements by Mr.
Cosby through his lawyers and press people branding them as liars.

And so if the court allows our case to go forward, the issue will be
who is telling the truth? Was it the women or was it Mr. Cosby.

HAYES: So this is key.

In establishing defamation, what you`re saying is what will be at
issue before the court if the lawsuit were to proceed is actually the facts
of the matter, the truth of the case about what happened to the women that
you represent and what Bill Cosby did or did not do.

CAMMARATA: Absolutely. Because you can`t determine whether or not
they were telling the truth without determining whether or not what they
say happened, happened. They say they were assaulted, abused by Mr. Cosby
and Mr. Cosby says, ain`t so. I`m not that kind of guy. I didn`t do it.
They`re liars.

And so now you have one in stark contrast to the other. And we`re
going to have a forum, a trial hopefully that will determine who is just
telling the truth.

HAYES: Finally, one of your clients was mentioned, I believe, in the
deposition that was uncovered, not by name. She was redacted. But how
does she feel about that?

CAMMARATA: Well, I can`t talk to you specifically about how my client
feels, but I can tell you generally that down to the very last woman, they
have a felt sense of vindication, a sense of joy that this deposition has
come out. And shown that they were telling the truth.

HAYES: All right, Joe Cammarata, thank you very much.

That`s All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right


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