All In With Chris Hayes, Thursday, July 9th, 2015
Read the transcript from the Thursday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: July 9, 2015
Guest: Al Green, Robert Reich, Martin O`Malley, Alvin Bragg, McKay
Coppins, Javier Palomarez
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
STATE REP. JENNY HORNE (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Take the symbol of hate
off these grounds on Friday.
HAYES: The lost cause loses again as the flag is finally coming down.
Then, did Jeb Bush really tell Americans to suck it up and work longer
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think people want to work
harder to be able to have more money in their own pockets.
HAYES: Plus, presidential candidate Martin O`Malley joins me live.
And not so fast Reince Priebus, Donald Trump will say what he wants,
and this is the top of a new national poll among Republicans.
ALL IN starts right now.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There`s nothing to
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
Tonight is the last night that the Confederate battle flag will fly
above the grounds of the South Carolina state capitol. After a last ditch
attempt by South Carolina`s Republican House members to preserve the status
quo, resulting in an intense and impassioned floor debate lasting into the
night, Governor Haley signed the bill into law today. Take the flag down
from the Confederate monument in the state grounds and put it in a nearby
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m.,
we will see the Confederate flag come down. We are a state that believes
in tradition. We`re a state that believes in history. We`re a state that
believes in respect. So, we will bring it down with dignity and we will
make sure that it is put in its rightful place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Bill passed handily in the Carolina Senate two days ago amid
outrage and grief over a massacre at Emanuel AME last month carried out by
a white supremacist to embrace the battle flag, it looked like it was on
its way to a pretty easy victory in the House.
Last night, a group of Republicans deployed an 11th hour strategy to
delay the bill indefinitely. And over the course of a marathon 14-hour
session, they proposed dozens of amendments -- everything from replacing
the flag with another Confederate emblem to turning the U.S. flag on the
capital dome upside down -- any of which would have forced into a currency
with the Senate version, a process that could drag on for weeks. It was
legislative death by amendment.
And as Republicans continued to bring forward one by one, the floor
debate turned emotional.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. LEON STAVRINAKIS (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: I can`t go home and
tell my people that politics was more important than them. Respectfully
and truthfully I can`t go home and tell them that the flag was more
important than their feelings, their hurt, their pain, their anguish.
STATE REP. JOE NEAL (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: That flag that stands
outside has stood as a thumb in the eye of those families in Charleston who
lost loved ones. And we all know it.
STATE REP. JENNY HORNE (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I cannot believe that we
do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful such as take
a symbol of hate off these grounds on Friday!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: At one point, in a rare moment of transparency, one House
Republican revealed the raw political motives behind their obstruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. MICHAEL GAMBRELL (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Some of us need some
help in our districts on this issue. That flag needs to come down.
However, we`re not asking for a whole lot, and I think this is probably one
of the more mild amendments we`ve put up, but we`ve got to have a little
something to take home, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now is MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid, who
is on the scene for the entire debate yesterday and last night, did
phenomenal reporting. I was riveted to my smartphone watching the whole
thing. It was really it fantastic work, Joy, really. Excellent, amazing
JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
HAYES: That moment I learned, because of a tweet of yours, said so
much to me. I mean, it was one of those rare moments when the kind of
facade said, look, we`ve got people mad about this, we`ve got to go give
REID: Absolutely. Chris, thank you very much. That`s very kind.
Yes, live tweeting parliamentary procedure is kind of my dream, so my
dream came true last night. It was really epic. It was really an
education I think for those who have not really witnessed sort of the
parliamentary process because what was interesting about the way Democrats
decided to play their strategy was to first of all let Republican talk.
They did not attempt to invoke cloture. This was essentially a filibuster.
This was Republicans, essentially one Republican who by himself, a guy
named Michael A. Pitts, proposed 54 amendments, he withdrew 27 of them.
And every time it got to the point where they might get to the regular
bill, he proposed 10 more amendments, it was a filibuster essentially. But
Democrats let them talk it out.
So, you had the whole first leg, that`s eight hours of debate, that
was much more about Republicans talking about their heritage and how
important the flag was to them.
Then, it got to the point where behind the scenes, Democrats were
trying to cobble together enough votes to get the clean bill through. When
they fell short of that three votes, when they came just within three votes
of getting a clean bill through, that`s when you saw the epic moment
everybody has been playing out -- and I think we might have played live on
the air, which made it even bigger and everybody was talking about it --
when Jenny Horne, who is a descendant of the person who would have been the
president of the confederacy, Jefferson Davis, she had this moment.
She was frustrated and aggravated, and she`s a Republican. So, that`s
when you started to see things change. I was getting text from people
saying, wait a minute, if Horne is with us, we might have something here.
There were moments when Democrats thought that their bill would fail.
That any amendment that passed would have sunk the bill, because the Senate
made it clear -- no amendments, period.
HAYES: This is what was so fascinating about this was, there was this
conventional wisdom after Nikki Haley`s announcement, after the horror of
the massacre in Charleston, after the bill get passed by the Senate, this
is a fait accompli, this thing is coming down.
And what you saw in real time yesterday was there`s a reason that
thing is still up. There a reason when they had this battle in 2000 that
was the compromise. It`s -- there are people that want to see that thing
stay up and you got to see that resistant last night in a way that had not
been on display really since the massacre in Charleston happened.
REID: Yes, absolutely. I spoke with Reverend Nelson Rivers, who is
the NAACP president at the time, he was the executive director of the state
NAACP back in 2000 when they tried to fight the Confederate flag that was
on top of the dome. Remember, the Confederate flag in 1930 was moved
inside the chamber, behind the speaker`s chair. So, the African-American
members that came in the `70s, they first started to get African-Americans
in, had to face that flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance and a lot of
them refused to do it.
Gilda Cobb Hunter (ph), who is actually the person really rounding up
the strategy on the Democratic side, she`s really leading the strategy
behind the scenes and a lot of times on the floor, she used to Pledge of
Allegiance to a flag on her desk to avoid looking at that flag. This is a
longtime fight. There`s been a 15-year boycott of the state from NAACP
because in 2000 they couldn`t get the flag off of that dome. So, what
happen -- I mean off of that monument.
So, what was happening on the Republican side is that they needed to
go back to their constituents and say, OK, well, maybe the flag is coming
down. We`re going to keep the pole so we can get another flag up there
later, so that we can switch it for another civil war emblem, so that we
can have some other tchotchke to the civil war in its place, because you
did have a lot of Republicans who are worried that they were going to home
to their district and get bombarded with angry constituents and did happen
If you check Nikki Haley`s Facebook page, people on the other side of
this issue, very, very angry and disappointed.
HAYES: Well, I just kept watching it, they call it the lost cause for
a reason, right? I mean, it ultimately came about, when he says I`ve got
to bring something back. It`s like we cannot, we are humiliated if we are
defeated essentially, and we are too proud for that and you`ve got to see a
kind of window in what a lot of psychology that`s been driving this now
for, you know, for over 100 years.
REID: Yes. And the thing I think that really sort of set off finally
Democrats came out and expressed disgust at one point when it looked like
their moves would fail. What they ended up taking an amendment that
Republicans attached to a bill, it was starting to get vote, it was
starting to get support, and they were worried that bill might pass, that
amendment might pass.
So, they came up with this unique parliamentary idea, which was to
take the language in the amendment and put it in its own bill, its own
HAYES: Cordon it off.
REID: Look, yes, here is exactly the language you want in the
amendment but it`s in this separate measure. Vote for that.
When Republicans wouldn`t got for it, then sort of the game was up.
It was clear a lot of Republicans just did not wan to get rid of that flag,
period, period, period. It really was a filibuster. That`s when you
started to see exasperation particularly from African-American members, who
said, look, our heritage is that that flag flew in front of a home you had
to stay away from an be afraid of. They told stories of their family
separation through slavery and what that flag meant to them.
So, you started to see Democrats get upset. But behind the scenes,
they were still working parliamentary procedure, and ultimately, they got
that compromise -- a clean bill and a separate bill with amendment language
in it. So, it`s fascinating from just a parliamentary, pure parliamentary
standpoint and really brilliantly done.
HAYES: All right. Joy Reid, great work. Thank you very much.
At some point during the debate in South Carolina last night, the
outcome truly seemed to rest on a knife`s edge -- would Republicans succeed
in keeping Confederate flag on grounds or at least for now, still for the
KKK to rally around when they convene at the capital next week?
Around that time, in Washington, congressional Republicans seemed to
be picking Confederate flag fight of their own. Late last night,
Congressman Ken Calvert, a Republican from California, introduced an
amendment to an appropriations bill to Department of Interior that would
allow Confederate battle flag to remain on display at cemeteries and grave
sights on federal land.
After immediate outcry, House Speaker John Boehner suspended action on
the bill this morning, saying he didn`t want to, quote, "turn it into a
political football". Although Congressman Calvert said GOP leadership
asked him to propose that very amendment.
Now, pressing her advantage, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi put
Republicans on the spot this afternoon, with a resolution to ban any state
flag containing Confederate emblem from the U.S. capitol. The resolution
was ultimately referred to committee where it`s expected to die -- but not
before House Democrats took a page from their counterparts in South
Carolina, making an impassioned argument against the battle flag.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: Had this Confederate battle flag
prevailed in war 150 years ago, I would not be standing here today as a
member of the United States Congress. I would be here as a slave.
REP. AL GREEN (D), TEXAS: How could you possibly now decide that you
would legitimize this symbol of hatred, of slavery, of a bygone era, of a
time when people were not even proclaimed to be human beings?
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: It`s astonishing that the
Republicans are so out of touch. We cannot allow this shameful decision to
hold. Take down the flag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Congressman Al Green, Democrat from Texas.
Congressman, quite a scene in the capitol today. What the heck is
going on down there?
GREEN: Well, it has been quite a day at the capital. As you know in
South Carolina, we had some wonderful things to occur today. The South
Carolina House of Representatives has moved forward and the state itself is
now going to take down the Confederate flag.
Well, in the capitol, it appears we have a similar circumstance but
it`s not moving in the same direction. There`s a desire, it seems, to have
flags flown at national cemeteries. We have a piece of legislation that
was amended by two of our representatives, Representative Hoffman and
Representative Jeffries. After they amended this legislation to prohibit
the use of these flags at national cemeteries -- and, by the way, I think
that it`s appropriate we not do this -- then there was an amendment to
allow the flags to be flown at national cemeteries.
And, of course, I would oppose this. I would be more than honored to
explain why. I think that Jefferson Davis -- Robert E. Lee, excuse me, was
correct. He wanted to heal the sores of the civil war. He was so adamant
about this that flags were not flown at his burial. He did not wear his
Confederate uniform. His daughter said it would have been treasonous to do
He wanted to heal the sores. They are healing the sores in South
Carolina. I thought we should continue the healing. And to do that, I
think we should not allow the flag to be flown. I think it`s a symbol of a
bygone era. It`s a symbol of slavery. It`s a symbol of bigotry and hatred
and time for this country to move on and to heal.
HAYES: So there was this dispute over whether they would be allowed
to fly in national cemeteries on federal lands. There was a voice vote
that would ban the practice included in this appropriations bill.
Republicans slipped an amendment in to say, actually, let`s undo that and
let them be flown.
When that was called attention, Boehner pulls the whole bill. And my
understanding is, the Democrats, you guys have now pressed the advantage,
and say, no, no, no, OK, you`re going to pull that bill, we want you to
vote on taking down flags here in the U.S. capital that are state flags,
like Mississippi, for example, that bear the Confederate symbol.
What`s going to happen with that?
GREEN: Well, our hope is that the privilege resolution will get a
hearing. Representative Thompson of Mississippi files such a privilege
resolution and then it was followed by Honorable Nancy Pelosi, who has a
similar privilege resolution. My hope is that we`ll get a hearing and this
will be resolved that this should not continue.
We have come a long way in this country. A lot of the peace and
harmony that we have is based upon a willingness of people to forgive. We
saw it in South Carolina when people said, I forgive you. You took the
life of someone I love but I forgive you.
We have forgiven people for the indignation and humiliation of
segregation. We have forgiven for inhumanity associated with slavery, and
our willingness to forgive should be the means and motive by which we
continue to move forward to heal the country.
The Confederate flag is not a symbol of love. It`s not a symbol of
liberty and justice for all. I intentionally wore this tie today because
this tie has -- is representative, as you can see, the American flag. It
represents the American flag.
This is the flag that we unite behind. It`s the flag we all stand for
-- liberty and justice for all -- when we salute it. So we need to move
And I think we have a seminal moment in time, a unique opportunity to
take a quantum leap forward, to do as Dr. King said, and bend the arc of
the moral universe toward justice.
HAYES: Congressman Al Green, thank you very much.
GREEN: Thank you.
HAYES: Still ahead, why Jeb Bush thinks Americans should be working
even more hours. Plus, the candidate who`s positioning himself as a
liberal alternative to Hillary Clinton, Martin O`Malley, will join me live.
And why Donald Trump is less popular than you might think despite
polling first in a new national poll.
HAYES: No deal yet in the Iran nuclear talks, but progress is being
made and negotiations continue -- that according to Secretary of State John
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We`re here because we believe we`re
making real progress toward a comprehensive deal. But as I have said many
times, and as I discussed with President Obama last night, we are not going
to sit at the negotiating table forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: If a deal is not reached by midnight eastern standard time
tonight, Congress will then get 60 days instead of 30 days to review it.
The original deadline was June 30th. That had already been extended for
work on an agreement that could be a major breakthrough.
HAYES: Presidential candidate Jeb Bush did not just make a gaffe
yesterday, it was one of those verbal slip ups that risked branded him with
the dreaded label "out of touch". While meeting with the editorial board
of "The New Hampshire Union-Leader" yesterday, he talked economic growth.
Quote, "My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it
is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see, which means we have to be a
lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time
modern lows. It means people have to work longer hours and through
productivity gain more income for their families. That`s the only way
we`re going to get out of this rut that we`re in."
The Democratic National Committee jumped on it gleefully mailing the
quote to reporters. And presidential candidate Hillary Clinton tweeted
this, quote, "Anyone who believes Americans aren`t working hard enough
hasn`t met enough American workers." Along with that graph showing
productivity is rising quite a bit year after year while hourly
compensation has totally flat lined.
Bush offered clarification after town hall meeting in Hudson, New
Hampshire. He said his comment referred for the need for part-time workers
to achieve full-time work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I think people want to work harder to be able to have more
money in their own pockets, not to be dependent upon government. You can
take it out of context all you want. But high sustained growth means
people worked 40 hours rather than 30 hours, and that by our success, they
have money, disposable income for their families to decide how they want to
spend it, rather than getting in line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: All right. Joining me now, former secretary of labor, Robert
Reich, whose film "Inequality for All", based on his work, it`s currently
available on Netflix, iTunes and other platforms.
All right. I`m going to play devil`s advocate for Jeb Bush here, OK?
You can interpret what he said as a comment in the way it`s sort of listed
in the things he`s talking about, as a comment about the fact there`s a
certain segment of the population who are involuntarily working part-time
jobs and part of achieving the growth rate he wants to achieve is for those
folks to have opportunity to work full-time, which they would like to do
but the current economy is not providing them the opportunity to do.
What do you think of that?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Chris, the only problem with
that interpretation is part-time workers in America are working more than
one job. In fact, a huge number of part time workers are working two or
three jobs. And when you add up all the hours part-time workers are
putting in per worker, you find they are actually putting in 40, 50,
sometimes 60 hours per week.
So, to say, as Jeb Bush does, he`s really only talking about part-time
workers who need to work more hours also indicates that he doesn`t have a
clue what`s going on with the American workforce. Everybody is working --
you know, everybody I meet is working as hard as they can. Most people who
are working in service jobs are working harder than they have ever worked.
We still do have an unemployment problem. Certainly, we need more
jobs. But the core problem is wages. The core problem is people are not
earning enough. That`s why they are working all the hours they are
HAYES: Yes. And, in fact, this is the great paradox of the sort of
modern American economy. It was true before the great crash. It`s been
particularly exacerbated after the great crash, which is that productivity
wages have completely become detached from each other. So, you make -- you
used to make 60 widgets an hour for your boss, now 65 widgets an hour.
You`re not seeing that improvement in the money you`re taking home.
REICH: That`s right. People are working harder than ever. Yet the
money and productivity they are generating, most of it is going to the top.
And this is a big change from what we had in the first three decades after
the Second World War when there was a direct relationship between what
people earned and how productive they were.
Then around the time Ronald Reagan was president, wages flattened out,
adjusted for inflation, productivity continued to go up.
So, for George -- for Jeb Bush, it`s all the same Bushonomics, for Jeb
Bush to say that people need to work harder in order to improve
productivity in order to get growth puts on its head exactly what`s going
on. I mean, the real problem is you`ve had growth, you`ve had
productivity, but none of that has trickle down to average workers.
HAYES: Yes. I also wonder about this idea of 4 percent growth. It`s
one of these things -- sure, I`m pro-4 percent growth. I would love there
to be 4 percent growth.
But this -- the economic theory here seems to be essentially the thing
restraining American growth is Americans don`t work enough. They are
pushing out the productivity frontier, right, the frontier of the possible
capacity of the economy that the thing keeping us tethered back is on the
labor side as opposed to investment in capital and things like that.
REICH: In fact, it sees -- this kind of view does not consider the
reality has one of the reasons you don`t have enough growth is that the
vast middle class of America doesn`t have the purchasing power to keep the
economy going. All the money and all the wealth has been going to the very
This is the great Republican blinder. They simply are unable to see
the reality of what`s going on, that wages and wage stagnation is the key
problem in the economy and that trickle down economics of a kind we`ve
practiced since Ronald Reagan really has not worked.
In fact, it`s been a huge failure. The goal is not growth per se.
The goal is good jobs with good wages. If Republicans don`t understand
that and if Jeb Bush doesn`t understand that, you know, we are in trouble.
HAYES: Right. We should also know that Americans work a lot. You
can line up OECB chart. We work a lot of hours. Americans are not
layabouts. We`re not a lazy people.
REICH: The latest data show that we work harder than extraordinarily
industrious Japanese. We work harder than anybody in Europe. We are the
hardest working people in the world. We don`t even get vacations.
I mean, the typical American gets two weeks vacation, typical European
five weeks, in Japan four weeks. I mean, nobody work as hard as Americans.
For Jeb Bush to say we need to work harder in order to grow the
economy so people at the top can do better is really strikes -- is not only
absurd and not only out of touch but really misleading and dangerous
Robert Reich, who`s a hard worker himself, thank you very much.
HAYES: Still ahead, a new national poll today show polling in place,
why there`s no escaping the Donald.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: When a community doesn`t have a
trust for the fairness of the criminal justice system, it creates anarchy.
And we`ve had a series of incidents in New York that have raised that
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: One of those incidents here in New York that Governor Andrew
Cuomo was talking about happened almost a year ago when according to a
final autopsy report, New York police officer`s chokehold, a chokehold seen
on smartphone video footage, caused the death of Eric Garner.
Now, after a Staten Island grand jury declined to indict that officer,
there were calls almost immediately from activists, organizers and
politicians to place all such cases in the hands of special prosecutors.
In fact, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman even asked
Governor Cuomo to immediately grant his office the power to investigate and
prosecute killings of unarmed civilians by law enforcement officials.
Well, yesterday Governor Cuomo backed by the families whose relatives
died at the hands of police, including the mother of Eric Garner, signed an
executive order which will give Eric Schneiderman the power to investigate
cases in which people are killed by police officers.
Joining me now is the man Schneiderman has appointed to oversee this
new office, veteran prosecutor and executive attorney general for social
justice Alvin Bragg. Mr. Bragg, it`s good to have you here.
ALVIN BRAGG, NEW YORK DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Happy to be here.
HAYES: How do you understand this job that you have now been given?
BRAGG: I understand it as a job that`s very important, very
significant. And we want to restore the public confidence in the
administration of justice in these type of cases and that`s what we`re
setting out to do.
HAYES: I sat across from Marilyn Mosby the day that she announced
charges in Baltimore and I said to her, are you ready for what they are
going to come at you with because you announced these charges. And she
said I`m ready. And we have seen an incredible campaign waged against her,
to tarnish her, politically pressure her.
Are you ready for what`s going to happen if and when a tragedy strikes
that you`re going to have to prosecute.
BRAGG: Well, in terms of the job I`m ready. I`m backed by a team of
prosecutors with great experience. I also am coming with experience
myself. And so we`re certainly ready to follow the facts wherever they may
lead and to investigate and, if appropriate, prosecute.
In terms of sort of political fallout, and things of that nature, you
know, I`m a civil servant. So I will defer to...
HAYES: They are not going to worry about that, though, they don`t
care. You`re not going to be able to tell the FOP, the police union you`re
a civil servant if you`re prosecuting one of their members.
BRAGG: Well, it`s a long held expression in my line of work. We
follow the facts wherever they may lead and do so without fear of favor.
So if someone wants to be disappointed in our results, you know, so be it.
If someone wants to be thrilled in our results, so be it as well. We`re
not going to be moved by that. We`re going to follow the facts and apply
the law to the facts and apply our best judgment.
HAYES: What`s your understanding of why this step was necessary.
BRAGG: Well, as the attorney general said and others have said, there
is a real erosion in public trust. I think we saw that in protests, as you
mentioned sort of commentators, lots of people talking about what is
happening in these cases
in terms of non-indictments, non-prosecutions. And so really the move to a
prosecutor here in New York is one to restore confidence.
In terms of having a prosecutor and attorney general and myself and
arguing it, take up these cases, because we`re not dealing with the police
on a day-to-day
basis. And so really I think that`s the concern. It`s a perception.
HAYES: There`s a sort of arm`s length here because you, Mr. Bragg,
you don`t every day, rely on, for instance, NYPD officers to come in to
testify to make your cases, check with in with them on investigations, have
a kind of constant working relationship with them which a lot of people
think makes it very difficult for these cases to be brought.
BRAGG: Exactly. Well, put.
HAYES: OK. There was this new study out, I thought it was
from the Women Donor Network about prosecutors around the country. 95
percent of the 2,437 elected state and local prosecutors across the country
in 2014 were white, 79 percent were white men. White men make up only 31
percent of the population in the U.S.
You`re from New York City, right, you`re from Harlem?
HAYES: How important do you think it is that we diversify the ranks
of prosecutors` offices?
BRAGG: I think it`s incredibly important. I talk to high school
law students, college students trying to promote the profession. As a
general matter I think we need a more diverse bar across the spectrum, not
just prosecutors. But in terms of prosecutors, which is a solemn
obligation, we need the bar, prosecutors, defense lawyers, judges to
reflect the diversity of our society.
And it matters, and I`ve been in a courtroom, Chris, where I was, you
know, the only African-American person in terms of the lawyers and the
judges, and I think you see the jurors will notice things like that, and
they pick up on the lack of diversity. And I think that also can affect
the confidence in the system.
People need to be able to look at the system and see that it reflects
HAYES: I`ve been in courtroom where every defendant was black and
every lawyer was white. And that`s also all too common. Executive Deputy
Attorney General Alvin Bragg, thank you very much.
BRAGG: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up Democratic Presidential Candidate Governor Martin
will join me live. That`s next.
HAYES: Former Maryland Governor Martin O`Malley is seeking the
Democratic Presidential nomination, and he`s coming to the race with a
pretty impressive resume, not only for someone looking to become the next
president of the United States, but for someone attempting to position
himself as a kind of liberal alternative to Hillary Clinton.
During his two terms as governor, as The Guardian pointed out in March
of Maryland, he passed extensive environmental legislation to protect the
Chesapeake Bay, gay marriage was legalized, the minimum wage was raised,
the death penalty was abolished and undocumented immigrants allowed to
receive driver`s licenses.
Yesterday, the governor offered up his plan for debt-free college.
Today, he released a white paper which lays out a pretty ambitious approach
to, quote, bringing real enforcement to Wall Street finally.
And joining me now is Democratic presidential candidate, former
Maryland governor Martin O`Malley.
Governor, can you tell me about how important you think banking reform
is and whether you think Dodd/Frank failed in this respect?
MARTIN O`MALLEY, 2016 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I think
it`s critically important. Look, when you have people like Paul Volcker
still saying that the megabanks on Wall Street pose a serious risk and a
threat to the American
economy, this is work that is incomplete. We have not followed through on
what the people expected us to do as a party when it comes to reigning in
reckless behavior on Wall Street.
We`ve allowed for too long two standards of justice, one for the well
connected and the wealthy elites of Wall Street and another for the rest of
us. And it`s not right and people are angry about it.
HAYES: Why is that the case? I mean, why did this job not get done?
O`MALLEY: This job didn`t get done because of years of this sort of
acceptance of a culture where we had a coziness between regulators and the
industry that they are supposed to regulate.
Look, there are 6500 some banks in the United States of America. Most
land and do their business in the real economy. And then you have a tiny
small group of
megabanks that are apparently now too big to jail, too big to fail, too big
even to manage. And if they get to that level of big, then they`re too big
and need to be broken up.
And we still haven`t followed through on this and we need to. We need
to step up. What`s happened in our nation over the last several years is
that the concentration of wealth has so intimidated political power in
Washington that they
have created different rules for themselves when it comes to risky behavior
on Wall Street while the rest of us have to operate by other rules.
And that, Chris, is not capitalism. That`s the antithesis of
HAYES: Let me ask you this question about your record in Maryland.
On one level, you look for candidates in race for a record of governing,
and you`ve got as much a record of governing, particularly in the
democratic field as anyone. You were a mayor of...
O`MALLEY: thank you.
HAYES: You were mayor of a major American city, you were the governor
of Maryland. A lot of stuff got done while you were governor.
But I want to ask you about...
O`MALLEY: I believe government should actually work.
HAYES: Well, here is the thing, though. When you were leaving office
your approval rating, your job approval rating in Maryland was low. It was
down to around 40, 41 percent. You`re -- the person that you had sort of
groomed as your successor ended up losing that election.
And I wonder what lessons you learned from the end of your tenure
there about kind of making progressive change, implementing reform in a way
that doesn`t sort of lead to backlash?
O`MALLEY: Well, I wasn`t on the ballot this year. What I`ve learned,
Chris, is that you always have to defend your record. You have to
constantly explain to the people you serve why you`re doing what you`re
doing. And it`s all about giving our children the skills and the tools
that they need to be winners in a changing economy.
When I did that when I was on the ballot in 2010, we were re-elected
with twice the margin as four years before. So that`s the lesson that I
think all Democrats should learn.
Look, don`t run away from progressive values. Don`t run away from the
tough decisions you have to make to advance those goals and values and make
them real. I am the only candidate in this race for Democratic Party`s
nomination for president that has 15 years of executive experience, pulling
people together to get important things done. And that`s what I intend to
do as president.
HAYES: Have you been surprised by the nature of the policy
pronouncements such as they`ve been from the Hillary Clinton campaign, the
positioning politically which really does seem to be quite progressive at
least in this early going and a whole variety of issues from immigration,
posting the wages and productivity chart yesterday, is that a surprise to
O`MALLEY: Chris, when I decided to run for president of the United
States, I set out to offer the ideas that would actually serve our national
interests, and that`s what I`m going to continue to do.
The other day we advanced a plan, a pretty detailed plan, for making
college affordable and debt-free for all families. We advanced the plan to
make our nation 100 percent clean energy powered on our electricity grid by
2050 and we`re going to continue to offer the ideas that will move our
What other candidates in this race do or choose not to do or how they
position is up to them. For my part, I`m going to move forward with ideas
that serve our national interest.
But governor, you`re a politician. You`ve run races. You`re a good
politician. You`ve won a lot of races where people didn`t think you could
O`MALLEY: Oh, thank you, Chris.
HAYES: And you understand, right, that the nature of the competitive
the odds you`re against in terms of just if nothing else the sheer
fundraising power of Hillary Clinton in that donor network.
Where do you see your sort of -- where do you see your path?
O`MALLEY: I see my path in answering the yearning that I hear all
across our country for new leadership and an ability to get things done.
And I believe that I have the skills, the vision, and the fearlessness of
holding progressive values, not apologizing for them and a track record of
I don`t put my finger in the wind to follow public opinion, I forge
new consensus to get things like marriage equality and the DREAM Act done,
to advance a
clean energy future. That`s real leadership, that`s new leadership and
that`s leadership that can get things done.
And that`s what our country wants, because we`re not going to fix
what`s wrong with our economy -- and by the way, I listened to your segment
with Robert Reich, and I agree with everything he said. People are working
harder but they are falling further behind.
We have to get our economy moving in a direction where wages start
going up again instead of down, and we cannot do that unless we have new
leadership that will actually make our government work again for all of us,
rather than only working for powerful, wealthy special interest.
HAYES: Presidential candidate Martin O`Malley, I want to have you
back on the program, and we`re going to talk criminal justice next time.
Let`s make a date for that.
O`MALLEY: Great. Look forward to it.
HAYES: Did Donald Trump get a lecture from the head of the RNC or was
he being congratulated for his work on the campaign trail?
HAYES: All right. A big week coming up here, one I`ve been excited
about a while. We are heading west for a week of shows live from
California. We`ll look at everything from the fights over who gets to use
the state`s ever dwindling supply of water, high-stakes battles, to the
possible solutions that could combat the historic drought, to why
businesses are still bottling and exporting California`s water. That`s all
next week in a special All In America: Water
Wars live from California. We`ll be right back.
HAYES: Donald Trump is disputing accounts of a phone call yesterday
between Trump and the head of the Republican National Committee Reince
Priebus. A source briefed on the call told NBC News that Priebus urged
Trump to tone down his inflammatory rhetoric about undocumented immigrants
Other media outlets also reported that Priebus urged Trump to tone it
down amid concerns from Republican leaders that Trumps remarks were hurting
But Trump insisted today the call was actually, quote, congratulatory.
Trump did not dispute that Priebus asked him to soften his rhetoric, but
Trump characterized Priebus` tone as upbeat and said Priebus, quote, "knows
better than to lecture me."
The problem for Priebus is that he can`t control Donald Trump. His
can`t escape him. If you`re an elected Republican these days, you have no
but weigh in on Trump and his deep thoughts on immigrants and their
propensity to rape and murder, which are a huge headache for GOP .
Today, it was John Boehner`s turn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) OHIO: I disagree with Mr. Trump`s comments.
And frankly, I think when you look at the presidential candidates, they
have all pretty well made their position clear. This has become the
biggest political football I`ve seen in my political career, this issue of
immigration and what to do about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Here is the thing to understand about Donald trump. He seems
at first glance to be pretty popular among Republicans. Trumps leads the
GOP presidential field. In a new national poll out today, leads it. And
he has been near the top in a number of other polls.
But in this incredibly diffuse GOP presidential field it doesn`t take
much support to do well in the polls. And the truth about Trump is that he
is at least going into this campaign an historically unpopular candidate.
As of last month, polls show that a whopping 57 percent of Republicans
have an unfavorable view of Trump. And the numbers among all voters are
worse. One May poll showed Trump`s net favorability rating among all
voters minus 55, far worse than any other candidate.
For some perspective, consider this, a February poll showed Vladimir
Putin, his net favorability rating among Americans at minus 58, just three
Makes you wonder how Putin would poll in the Republican field.
When we come back, we`re going to talk about the GOP freak out over
Trump and campaign to get companies to drop him. Stay with us.
HAYES: The Donald Trump backlash continued today with a Los Angeles
school district canceling an event at a Trump golf course. The Federal
Aviation Administration dropping Trump related navigation codes and the
perfume maker Perfumania cutting ties with Trump, which means you, dear
viewer, sadly soon may not be able to purchase either The Success by Trump
or Empire by Trump colognes.
Joining me now, are McKay Coppin, senior political writer at BuzzFeed
News and Javier Palamorez, president and CEO of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber
Javier, let me begin with you. You have been one of the key folks
talking to various businesses about cutting ties with Trump. What have
JAVIER PALOMAREZ, U.S. HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, you know,
I have to say, Chris, that our conversations with corporate leaders all
over this country has been very well received. I`m very happy for our
friends in corporate America, specifically Comcast, NBC/Universal,
Univision, Macy`s and many others for severing ties with Donald Trump.
I think it`s interesting, though, that for every large corporation
that we all hear about, there are many, many other smaller entities and
organizations that are leaving Donald Trump in droves. By way of example,
our organization was looking at two venues in the following 12 months that
were both Donald Trump-owned venues, one in Miami and one here in
Washington, D.C. We have since decided we will not be going to those
properties. And in our decision alone, that several million dollars that
Donald Trump will suffer in losses.
In addition, we represent 3.2 million Hispanic-owned firms in this
country, that collectively contribute over $486 billion to the American
economy and we do our work through a network of 200 local chambers and
business associations throughout the United States.
Already, we`ve heard from more than 25 of our member companies that
were considering Trump-owned properties for corporate outings, for galas,
for golf outings, even for dinners, and all of them are canceling.
Interesting to me is that we`re also hearing, and hearing frankly
more, from non-Hispanic organizations, and non-Hispanic executives and
business leaders that are canceling everything from personal vacations.
And so I think the tip of the spear is what we`re seeing now. But
this will be prolonged. It will be acute and it will go for quite some
And downstream effect I think will be significant.
HAYES: Well, McKay this brings the question of you wrote the sort of
definitive piece about Trump sort of messing with all of us, to get us to
pay attention to him because he might run for president.
Then, I think because you wrote your piece he was like, I`ll show that
McKay Coppins, I`m going to run for president.
Well, now here we are. He`s at the top of these national polls. A
lot of people are like this is preposterous, this guy obviously is not
going to be
be president of the United States, will he even stay in long enough.
But I don`t know what to make of the phenomenon. Like, what do you
make of it?
MCKAY COPPINS, BUZZFEED: So, my working theory -- and this is still
evolving as this is all happening -- but my working theory has been over
the last few weeks since he got into the race was that he basically backed
himself into a
corner and now he`s kind of taking the plunge without any real plan. And
this only strengthens my theory. I don`t think he thought -- I can`t
imagine that he knew going into this race that he was -- this was going to
cost him millions and millions of dollars, that it was going to be so
costly for his business, that it was going to -- you know, permanently
really do real damage to his brand not politically but in the business
world and in the entertainment world.
I don`t think he knew that going in. And the fact that now this is
of -- the walls are crumbling around him, I think he`s kind of just like,
well, I`ve got to stay in now. I don`t know what else to do, right?
HAYES: Javier, do you worry what he`s been saying about immigration,
particularly about Mexican immigrants, which he keeps saying over and over,
Mexican government sending their worst people, et cetera, do you worry that
represents a broader set of views than Donald Trump, that there are people
within the base of that party that are buying that?
PALOMAREZ: Well, no doubt that there are people within the base that
believe that. But I don`t think it`s fair to use a broad brush when
considering the entirety of the Republican Party. I do believe that it is
more inclusive, it`s a little bit more modernized than that.
You know, I`d like to commend Governor Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio for
stepping out strongly in opposition to his views.
The reality of it is is the Mexican government isn`t sending anybody
anywhere. People are coming here to work. And if you look at the
contributions that immigrants make to this country, particularly when you
look at them from an
entrepreneurial perspective -- you know, consider that one out of every
five new companies that started in this country is started by an immigrant,
one out of every 10 American workers is employed by an immigrant-owned
As we stand, immigrant owned companies contribute over $780 billion to
the American economy and the facts go on.
So, I think the facts speak for themselves. It is concerning that I
element of the Republican Party that appears to be buying into this. And I
think that would be disastrous frankly.
HAYES: Very quickly, is there any upside for people to be bale to
distance themselves from Trump and appear moderate?
COPPINS: Within the party?
COPPINS: Yeah, absolutely.
Especially when you consider that the donor class of the Republican
Party is fairly pro immigration. I think you will see certain candidates
continue to use him as a foil.
HAYES: Very interesting.
McKay Coppins and Javier Palomarez, thank you gentlemen both.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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