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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, July 11th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Saturday show


Date: July 11, 2015

Guest: Elahe Izadi, Nan Hayworth, Ron Insana, Wesley Clark, Michael Kruse,

Katie Francis


STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST:  The Donald heads to the border. 

All right.  Good morning.  We`re supposed to have an introduction here, I

guess we don`t today.  But good morning and thanks for getting up with us

today on UP.  Donald Trump as we say there in that attempted cold open, he

is sticking to his position on immigration, he is set to give a big speech

in Arizona later today.  We`re going to have more on that in just a moment. 

Also ahead this morning, as the confederate flag falls in South Carolina, a

stunning admission from the FBI that the shooter never should have been

allowed to buy his gun in the first place.  We`ll tell you how that

happened and what it means. 

Plus, the shocking plot twist about one of the most beloved literary and

movie characters of all time. 

And also coming up on the show, how the celebration continued last night

for the U.S. women`s soccer team.  Those details and much, much more all to

come in the next two hours on this show. 

But we begin this morning with Donald Trump doing what else, stirring

controversy on the topic of immigration.  The republican presidential

candidate not backing down from the comments he made when he announced his

run last month and all the comments he`s made since then about undocumented

Mexican immigrants, claiming that Mexico is sending rapists, criminals and

drugs to the United States.  And in a news conference in Beverly Hills

yesterday, Trump was flanked by families of people killed by undocumented



DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  They`re sending people into our

country that we don`t want but we take and that they don`t want. 

People came into the country illegally and killed their children.  And it`s

a very, very sad thing what`s happening with our country.  With respect to

whether you want to say illegal aliens, illegal immigrants, illegals, and

nobody wants to talk about it.  I guess I cause controversy and for no

reason because I was talking about Mexico is sending people that Mexico

doesn`t want.  And everybody knows that`s what I was saying, and everybody

knows that I have great relationships with Mexican people. 


KORNACKI:  That`s Trump`s new comments coming only hours before he`s set to

speak in Phoenix, Arizona, today.  These comments were at an event hosted

by the local Republican Party. 

Joining me now from Phoenix is MSNBC reporter Amanda Sakuma.  So, Amanda,

that event you`re at today, you`re getting ready for out there, that was

moved to a larger venue to accommodate a larger-than-expected crowd.  So,

what are we expecting to hear from Donald Trump?  What`s the scene going to

be like there when he appears later today?

AMANDA SAKUMA, MSNBC REPORTER:  Good morning, Steve.  As you mentioned,

organizers were expecting maybe 500 people to join them at a hotel ballroom

across town.  But they sold out after a couple of hours.  Now they tell me

they`re moving here to a convention center at the heart of Phoenix where

they`re expecting as many as 5,000 people.  So, as you mentioned, Trump is

in many ways coasting on this controversy.  And so, when he comes and

speaks today, he`ll be standing next to one of the single most divisive

characters on the immigration debate, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Now, Arpaio is in the midst of his own controversy.  He`s in a long-

standing lawsuit right now and federal case over his discriminatory

policies within his sheriff`s department that were targeting Latino

motorists.  Now, just yesterday the judge in that case said he refused to

recuse himself from the case after it came to light that an attorney for

Arpaio had a private investigator spy on the judge`s wife.  And they tried

to use that as a reason why the judge should recuse himself in this federal

case.  So, in many senses, this, normally Arpaio would be a very toxic

person to be standing on stage with, but in many ways this is in line with

what Trump has been saying.  There will be many anti-immigrant protesters

here, and there will be many pro-immigrant protesters here expected to

rally outside of the event later today.  

KORNACKI:  All right.  Amanda Sakuma in Phoenix, thank you for that. 

I always forget, we got that three-hour time difference.  It`s pitch dark

in Arizona.  Still only 5:00 in the morning out there.  But Donald Trump

will be out there later.  As we say, Arizona`s top Republicans, they are

distancing themselves from Donald Trump.  At least most of them are, not

Joe Arpaio certainly as he prepares to deliver his remarks in that state

later today.  Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake will not attending, with

Flake saying, quote, "Donald Trump`s views are coarse, ill-informed and

inaccurate and they are not representative of the Republican Party.  As an

elected republican official, I`m disappointed the county party would host a

speaker that so damages the party`s image."  And protesters are planning to

demonstrate outside as Amanda was saying there, where Trump is going to be

speaking.  But there`s a broad base of support for Donald Trump and his

message in Arizona, especially among the ranchers who make their living

along the border. 

NBC`s Mark Potter surveyed the scene for us ahead of Trump`s speech.  


MARK POTTER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  For several years,

hidden cameras in the Arizona desert had captured scenes like these, of

drug and immigrant smugglers, sometimes armed, hiking through miles of

American ranch land after illegally crossing the U.S.-Mexican border.  This

video was shot in May south of Tucson just two months before Donald Trump

complained about border security.  

TRUMP:  We don`t even have a border.  People are just flowing through like

water.  There is no border right now. 

POTTER:  Arizona rancher John Ladd whom we visited several times before

along the Mexican border fence and others have long complained -- 

JOHN LADD, ARIZONA RANCHER:  They just cut everything at ground level.  

POTTER: -- about what they say is an insecure border that leaves them

facing security threats on their own land.  They applaud Trump for giving

their concerns a national voice. 

LADD:  I`m really impressed that finally somebody has the courage to talk

about the reality of what`s going on. 

POTTER:  While ranchers see a dramatic drop this year in immigrant traffic,

drug smuggling they say is still rampant and insists Trump`s message is


FRED DAVIS, ARIZONA RANCHER:  He`s talking about securing the border. 

That`s the most important thing. 

POTTER (on camera):  And in your estimation, the border right now is not


DAVIS:  Absolutely not. 

POTTER (voice-over):  But others in Arizona say, Trump`s comments about

Mexicans are offensive and insist he is overplaying the security threat. 

Jimmy Pionke lives a half mile from the border. 

JIMMY PIONKE, JIMMY`S HOT DOGS:  The tone was arrogance at best and

nonsensical at worst.  What he said was just not true.  

Mr. Trump doesn`t actually know what`s going on.  It`s easy to sit back in

New York City in Trump tower and make statements like that.  

POTTER:  Mark Potter, NBC News.  


KORNACKI:  All right.  Let`s bring in this morning`s panel.  Elahe Izadi,

national reporter with "The Washington Post."  Former republican

congresswoman from New York Nan Hayworth and MSNBC`s Krystal Ball, co-host

of "THE CYCLE."  

All right.  Donald Trump, let`s talk about this.  So, what do we learn this

week, we found out, first of all, we can put this up on the screen.  He is

definitely surging in the polls.  This is the latest.  This is the national

poll.  The economists, they take this one, Donald Trump now at the top

among Republicans nationally.  First place.  Check that out.  We`ve been

talking so much about how you have to be in that top ten to make the

debate.  Donald Trump clearly going to be in debate.  So, we got that. 

We`ve got the Republican National Chairman Reince Priebus making the call,

the Donald Trump this week.  This was something your newspaper reporter

Elahe basically telling him.  Tried to tone it down a little bit on this



KORNACKI:  So, in the wake of those poll numbers -- 

BALL:  Trump said that he was congratulating him.  That`s all that was.  


KORNACKI:  Two very different versions of that phone call.  That Donald

Trump, we played a cut of it right there.  I have to say, and now the way

they were setting this event up yesterday, this press event where you`re

planning, he`s got families of people -- crime victims from undocumented

immigrants.  So, his tone, though, was -- that was a quieter Donald Trump I

think than we`ve seen.  I do wonder, did that message in some way get to


BALL:  No, I don`t think so.  Why would it, frankly, when he`s looking at

these poll numbers and he`s saying what I`m doing is working great, right? 

This has gone better than even he could have possibly imagined in terms of

his person goals.  He`s surging, he`s getting all the attention that he

wants.  Every show is having to talk about him even if we want might want

to ignore him, when he`s getting that kind of traction in the polls, you

can`t.  So, no, I mean, his tone is a bit different because he`s with

family members who have been impacted by violence.  So, that`s naturally

going to bring a different tone out.  But I don`t see him backing down or

toning it down or doing anything like that.  

KORNACKI:  So, where does he go from here?  I`m kind of curious.  I mean,

there was so much, I was always skeptical he`d actually run for president. 

And he still has though, we have to say there`s this whole technical thing

where he has got to file, these really, you know, thorough financial

disclosures forms. 


And he says he`s going to do it.  So, you know, let`s see, he`s already

taken this farther than I thought he would.  But -- is Donald Trump now, if

he does run, if he stays with this, is he running as immigration is the

issue or is there a next act, is there a next issue? Where does he go from


ELAHE IZADI, "THE WASHINGTON POST":  Well, I`m not sure, but this

particular issue has hit at that moment in this country where everyone is

talking about the case in San Francisco and all these corporate sponsorship

deals that are pulling out has just catapulted him into the national

spotlight even more and more.  But the thing is, this is the very issue and

the tone that the Republican Party, the national Republican Party does not

want to be talking about in this way.  This is what`s so concerning to

national republican leaders, that all this work that they`ve been trying to

do over the past four years in trying to woo Latino voters might all go

down the drain in just a few weeks` time.  So, that`s what`s really

concerning about him honing in on this issue.  But he`s definitely zeroed

in on something, that there`s a segment of republican primary voters who

are upset and want this issue to be talked about.  

KORNACKI:  Right.  And so, Nan, I guess that raises the question, if you`re

the Republican party, if you`re Reince Priebus, if you`re anybody in the

party that`s concerned about the tone from Donald Trump, and you`re looking

at these poll numbers, the response that he`s getting from Republicans, the

fact that he`s tapping into genuine feelings republican voters have on this

issue, on immigration, how do you argue with in public?  How do you fight? 

How do you counter Donald Trump when he`s basically articulating positions

that the base has?

FMR. REP. NAN HAYWORTH (R), NEW YORK:  Well, there`s tone as we`ve talked

about and there`s substance.  We want our president to be forceful, to be

forthright, but also to be respectful.  Donald Trump is instead being

inflammatory.  You know, he doesn`t sound the way I think most Republicans

would want their presidential candidate to sound.  But he is going to push

this as far as he can because he`s got the name recognition.  That`s why

he`s up so high in these polls.  It is an opportunity for Republicans to

reflect on the substance of the issue, and there is genuine frustration not

only among Republicans, but among just about every one affected by this

issue, and that`s the entire American public.  We have a government that

has not been effective in protecting our borders, in protecting both our

citizens and those who enter this country under circumstances that are

cruel, from harm.  You know, this government isn`t doing anything right now


KORNACKI:  Well, and I feel like that`s something that Trump is tapping

into here.  And it`s not just literally about the immigration issue. 

BALL:  Yes.

KORNACKI:  It`s about the frustration with in terms of republican voters,

the republican establishment, in terms of voters in general, the political

establishment, the idea that it`s just these politicians up there in suits

who tell you all the things you want to hear. 

BALL:  Right. 

KORNACKI:  And guess what?  There`s always fine print, there`s never any

follow through.  And, you know, I`m just imagining this Krystal, this

argument playing out in the debate next month.  Trump is on the stage, Jeb

Bush is up there, Jeb Bush gives them this sort of nuance take on, what we

need this kind of a pathway, and we need to be reasonable about this.  And

Trump will just look at him and be like, Jeb, you`re what`s wrong.  You`ve

been talking that way for 30 years.  Nothing changes.  Nothing gets done. 

BALL:  He is very certain, right, often wrong but never in doubt.  That is

Donald Trump.  And people love that sort of black and white certainty. 

Right?  He doesn`t sugarcoat things.  That`s the way that they`re feeling. 

And I think you`re right.  It`s not just about immigration.  It`s about

this broader sense that the country is changing and I`m uncomfortable with

the direction that it`s going in.  And also frankly, all of the business

establishment, walking away from him in the way that the media is attacking

him, that just strengthens him.  And that`s actually a problem that the

Republican Party has created for itself.  They`ve created this narrative

that the establishment is bad and that no authority figure should ever be

trusted.  So, to me the idea of Reince Priebus, right, the emissary of the

republican establishment trying to tell Donald Trump to tone it down, that

just serves Donald Trump.  I mean, he has absolutely no power.  The more

that Trump exacerbates the powers that be, the stronger that he`s going to

be in these polls.  

KORNACKI:  I just want to play this quickly.  Because we`ve seen this video

make the rounds this week.  And when Republicans say they have a chance,

the republican establishments sort of talks about where he is vulnerable,

where Trump is vulnerable.  Where they can kind of get him.  A lot is going

back to 1999, he flirting with running for president back then, a very

different Donald Trump presented himself.  We have a clip from that.  Let`s

play that for a second.  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Would President Trump ban partial at the border?  

TRUMP:  I`m very pro-choice.  I hate the concept of abortion.  I hate it. 

I hate everything that stands for it.  I cringe when I listen to people

debating the subject.  But you still, I just believe in choice.  Hey, I

lived in New York City, in Manhattan all my life.  Okay?  So, you know, my

views are a little bit different than if I lived in Iowa perhaps. 


KORNACKI:  And this was -- I mean, this was Trump back then, he talking

about single payer health care, universal healthcare, this was Donald Trump

who is very liberal on gays, especially in 1999.  And he`s managed to

execute this -- he`s playing almost like the Pat Buchanan role in the

Republican Party right now.  You know, is that past going to at least trip

him up here do you think Elahe?

IZADI:  I mean, maybe it can be used to show him as a hypocrite.  But if

you`re going to attack him on his record, you`re just more and more, it`s

just -- it`s further legitimizing the possibility that this candidacy is

going to go somewhere.  Now, the poll numbers that we saw, like you say,

its name recognition, there`s a margin of error.  You often have these

sorts of candidates doing really well in the polls in such a crowded field

this far out before the election.  But yes, I mean, you can definitely look

at his record and say, wow, it`s very different.  Now, if you want to look

at Bernie Sanders as the Donald Trump of the Democratic Party, I mean, that

comparison doesn`t hold because Bernie Sanders has held those positions for


BALL:  Right.

IZADI:  Donald Trump it appears is putting forward some positions that get

him a lot of attention right now.  

KORNACKI:  You have set up a very good segue to our next segment which will

be about the man you just mentioned, Bernie Sanders and some of the

positions he`s held over the last few decades.  

Still ahead, also, will a last-minute offer help keep Greece`s economy

afloat and will what happens in Greece affect us here in the United States?  

But first, most Americans say they are unwilling to vote for a socialist. 

We`ll look at what that means for a self-described socialist Bernie

Sanders.  Stay with us. 


KORNACKI:  Progressive, liberal, left winger, those are some of the many

words used to describe Senator Bernie Sanders as his presidential campaign

picks up momentum.  But there`s one word we haven`t heard used as much, a

word Sanders uses to describe himself.  



as a small d democrat.  So will you tell us Americans what a small d

democrat means?


socialist like that.  

KING:  Right.  Democratic socialist. 


KORNACKI:  Socialist.  That is a term that doesn`t sit well with most

Americans.  Pew finding in 2011 that just 31 percent,  that`s less than a

third of those survey have a positive view of the term socialism, 60

percent have a negative view, the negative view of socialism that Sanders

has been trying for years to disprove, going back to his days as

Burlington, Vermont`s mayor. 


SANDERS, NBC "TODAY," APRIL 7, 1981:  We believe in democracy.  I mean, the

problem with the word socialism is that very often it`s been equated with

what happens in the Soviet Union, which is authoritarianism and

totalitarianism.  I believe very strongly in the right of descent, and I

think people with those ideas fight for those things very strongly.  


KORNACKI:  But Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill who`s already endorsed

Hillary Clinton says, the media hasn`t questioned Sanders enough about his

socialist views.  


SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI:  I think the media is giving Bernie a

pass right now.  I very rarely read in any coverage of Bernie that he`s a

socialist.  I think everybody wants a fight and I think they`re not really

giving the same scrutiny to Bernie Sanders that they`re giving to certainly

Hillary Clinton and the other candidates.  


KORNACKI:  Is Claire McCaskill right?  Is the media giving Bernie Sanders a

pass?  And could Americans really vote for a socialist?  Well, let`s ask

our panel.  I love the old Phil Donahue interview there, 34 years ago. 

Yes.  That`s a fun one to look at.  But okay, so, I mean, you look at those

poll numbers, two to one people have a negative view of the term socialism. 

There`s Claire McCaskill who`s you know, sort of a Hillary surrogate,

clearly sees an opening there to kind of marginalize Bernie Sanders.  Is

socialism the connection that Bernie Sanders has to it, does just that

automatically kill him as a national candidate?

HAYWORTH:  Well, it`s a convenient code.  You know, nobody is using it in

the strict political theory definition.  But it`s very clear that Bernie

Sanders is someone who wants to confer more power on the government to run

more -- evermore aspects of our transactions, of our lives, for Americans

historically that`s been anathema although it`s perhaps becoming less so. 

And obviously for Hillary Clinton`s supporters, they`re pulling this word

out because they know that it`s going to be toxic to moderate democrats.  

BALL:  Republicans used it to great effect.  

KORNACKI:  Well, I mean, that`s the question.  If you -- the Republicans,

how many conservatives on talk radio or blogs or whatever are always

calling Democrats socialists, collectivists, communists.  And now, you got

it, actual socialist running for the democratic nomination. 

BALL:  It`s part of why the word has less power because it has been used so

much.  But there`s also a shift that`s happening that is pointed out in

that same article which is that younger Americans who were born post-cold

war, at least came of age post-cold war, they don`t have the same like red

fear that older generations had.  

KORNACKI:  You know, we can put those numbers up actually, Krystal.  Let`s

put these up so you can see.  This is people age 18 to 29.  And that is

striking.  Look at this.  

BALL:  They`ve used socialism more positively than capitalism.  

KORNACKI:  That`s an amazing disconnect.  

BALL:  Yes.  And I think because they think of it more in terms of the

Bernie Sanders model, right?  Looking at, yes, I believe that we should

support people.  I believe that we should have a social safety net.  If you

look at most of the positions that Bernie Sanders advocates for, they`re

actually quite popular, including expanding Social Security which is

popular across a broad range of ages.  So, I think most folks are not

thinking so much about the label, that they`re looking at the positions.

And look, Bernie Sanders has a ceiling.  He`s not going to be the

democratic nominee, he`s not going to be ultimately a national candidate. 

But the thing that people are responding to is that he is crystal clear

about where he stands.  He`s been in the same place his whole career and

that authenticity is a very rare commodity in politics.  I mean, if you

want to compare him to Donald Trump, there`s nothing comparable in Donald

Trump in terms of that sort of genuine authenticity. 

KORNACKI:  Well, I wonder -- 

HAYWORTH:  It`s a big contrast of Hillary Clinton who is perceived -- 

BALL:  Absolutely right.  That`s absolutely right. 

KORNACKI:  And I`ve heard the argument made -- you talk about all the

strengths Hilary Clinton has, is you know, this is the biggest front-runner

Democrats ever seen, either party has ever seen.  That is actually a

contrast.  If there`s one candidate who that contrast works for, it`s

Bernie Sanders because she represents so much of the entrenched power, all

the political class lining up for, that it sort of helps define him more to

run against that. 

But I wonder, you talk about that generational difference on attitudes

towards socialism, and how much of that has to do with, in the older

generation that remembers that lived through the Soviet Union, soviet

communism and all that, a younger generation to whom that`s not part of

their life.  It`s a point that Bernie Sanders tries to make when asked

about this.  We have a clip.  This is when he was on Seth Meyers show

recently, when he talks about socialism as a governing philosophy, he talks

about Scandinavia.  This is what he has to say.  


SANDERS:  We have countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, all the European

countries, which have had social democratic governments and labor

governments, and the result of that is, in those countries health care is a

right of all people.  I don`t see that as a great problem. 


At a time when so many of our young people can`t afford to go to college,

tuition is free in many of those countries.  Excellent. 


They have excellent childcare, strong retirement benefits.  They`re often

very strongly pro-environment, taking on climate change.  So, I think when

people understand that in those countries governments are working for the

middle class rather than the billionaire class.  I think we can get a

message across. 


KORNACKI:  So, there you go, Elahe, all those millennials applauding in the

background.  This 73-year-old candidate.  

IZADI:  Yes.  Take them to all the spots, all the millennials -- talk about

free tuition for sure.  Yes.  I mean, the idea that socialism as this label

is going to bring him down in a democratic primary, I mean, if you look in

the Iowa polls, he is gaining on Hilary Clinton right now.  And that, he

could be a foil in that state.  If she does not win Iowa, that will not be

good.  But the issues he`s articulating, the argument that he makes is that

these are positions that he`s holding that a lot of people, both democrat

and republican also hold.  And so whether or not he becomes the candidate,

the nominee, it is another question.  Is he going to be pushing Clinton

into these positions?  And that doesn`t really maybe bode well for her in a


BALL:  He already has pushed her I think.  

IZADI:  Yes.  On gun control, she`s talking more and more about that.  

KORNACKI:  I`m really excited to see.  I mean, we talk about these

republican debates, but I`m really excited to see Hillary Clinton versus

Bernie Sanders.  I know there`s three other candidates up there.  And I

kind of wish we could just have just that -- 

BALL:  One-on-one debate. 

KORNACKI: -- one-on-one debate with Hillary.  You know, she is probably

happy the other three are up there.  

BALL:  I mean, it may actually feel much like a one-on-one debate.  Because

he is incredibly outspoken, he`s very smart, he knows what he`s talking

about.  He has that certainty and he is willing to say exactly what he

thinks.  So, yes, it will be fun to watch.  I mean, one thing that I`ve

been thinking about, watching how well that Bernie Sanders -- and by the

way, you get a lot of credit for predicting how well he would do

unexpectedly.  You were one of the first people who looked at -- 

KORNACKI:  I`m glad you read your notes -- 


BALL:  And said, this guy is going to do better than people think.  I mean,

you`re absolutely right about that.  I mean, I look at this and I think,

you know, imagine if Elizabeth Warren would have gotten in this race.  

KORNACKI:  I wonder if Elizabeth Warren thinks that, too. 

BALL:  You know, I think she would be in a much different position, she

would have a much broader range of support and really could have given

Hillary Clinton a run for a money.  

KORNACKI:  And meanwhile, Martin O`Malley is sitting back there in

Baltimore saying, why isn`t it me? 

BALL:  Why not me?

KORNACKI:  This is supposed to be me.  All those years of planning.  

Anyway, still ahead, why federal authorities now say the gunman in last

month`s Charleston Church shooting shouldn`t have been allowed to buy a bun

in the first place.  

And next, a deadly explosion outside the Italian consulate in Egypt.  The

latest on that right after this break. 


KORNACKI:  Developing at this hour, we`re following reports that an Islamic

State Leader Hafiz Saeed Khan has been killed in a U.S. drone strike in

Afghanistan.  Khan is the head of ISIS for Afghanistan, Pakistan and some

other adjoining regions.  According to Taliban sources, Hafiz Saeed was

also once part of the Afghan Taliban.  A small but increasing number of

senior Taliban militants in Afghanistan have switched allegiance to ISIS. 

There was also a deadly explosion this morning outside the Italian

consulate in Cairo.  That blast coming early this morning in Egypt`s

capital city killed at least one person and injured nine others.  The

consulate was closed at the time and no one who worked there was hurt. 

Investigators still trying to determine the cause of that explosion.  No

one has claimed responsibility for the attack as yet. 

Stay with MSNBC and throughout the day for updates on these


And still ahead in our show, the shocking revelation in the new Harper Lee

novel about one of the best loved fictional characters of all time. 

And next, the loophole that allowed the Charleston Church shooter to buy

his gun.  The FBI admits its mistake on the same day that the confederate

flag comes down.  That`s next.  Stay with us. 


KORNACKI:  It`s been an emotional 24 hours in South Carolina where

yesterday morning the confederate flag was removed from the front of the

statehouse in Columbia.  More than 100 people watched the historic

ceremony, much more than 100, on the national audience and television, too. 

The flag is now housed nearby at a confederate relic museum.  The flagpole

was also removed yesterday from the statehouse grounds.  This came a day

after South Carolina`s republican Governor Nikki Haley signed that bill

into law calling for the removal of the flag.  It also came less than a

month after the racist murders of nine members of a black church in

Charleston, South Carolina by a man who embraced the confederate flag. 

Not long after that flag came down yesterday, the director of the FBI

revealed that the gun used in the Charleston church shooting never should

have been sold to the gunman in the first place.  James Comey revealing

that Dylann Roof`s criminal history didn`t make it into the FBI`s database. 

If it had, that would have prohibited his purchase of the gun.  Instead

Roof got his gun because federal law allows the gun sale to go ahead if the

FBI hasn`t blocked it.  Now, in previous elections, Democrats have often

appeared timid on tackling gun control as part of their campaigns, but ever

since the Charleston shooting, Hillary Clinton has been talking about

toughening the nation`s gun laws, including this week in Iowa.  



that a majority of Americans and a majority of gun owners agree with

universal background checks to keep guns out of the hands of domestic

abusers and people who are mentally unready and unstable and even

terrorists.  Because right now we can`t even stop that in a lot of the

parts of the country.  So, let`s get back to having a conversation.  Let`s

not be afraid of the gun lobby which does not even really represent the

majority of gun owners in America. 


KORNACKI:  And this is a shift in emphasis that helps the former secretary

of state stake out the more liberal ground of her closest challenger,

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.  On this issue she could be standing out

there alone.  Because when it comes to guns, Sanders isn`t your typical

liberal.  He represents a rural pro-gun state.  He`s voted in the past for

legislation that protects the gun industry.  In Thursday in Virginia,

Sanders argued with a member of the audience over whether gun manufacturers

should be held liable. 


SANDERS:  If somebody has a gun and somebody steals that gun and they shoot

somebody, do you really think it make sense to blame the manufacturer of

that weapon?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes, and I`ll tell you why. 

SANDERS:  No, well -- 


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Because there`s smart gun technology that would

prevent --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We`d like other people to get a chance.  

SANDERS:  The pointers that I made, if somebody sells you a baseball bat

and you hit somebody over the head, you`re not going to sue the baseball

bat manufacturer.  


KORNACKI:  So interesting.  I mean, he is making the guns don`t kill

people, people kill people line that you always hear from the NRA.  And

this is Bernie Sanders.  And this is the one issue people always look at. 

And they say, he`s to the left of Hillary on everything, on taxes, on that. 

Not when it comes to guns. 

HAYWORTH:  Well, it`s going to goes back to Hillary Clinton`s problem as

Bernie Sanders presents her with the challenge of advocating for evermore

government basically, except perhaps in this case on Bernie Sanders` part. 

We have an ineffective government apparatus, this was a failure of the

background check system.  So the background check was in place and didn`t

work.  Why?  Because it`s not being administered properly.  So -- 

BALL:  Well, if I could, I mean part of the problem here was that there is

this prioritization over the speed of someone being able to get their gun -

HAYWORTH:  Right.  In three days.

BALL: -- in three days versus the thoroughness of the background check. 


BALL:  So if the person at the FBI had had more time because she was trying

to find the information, if there had been more time to find that

information, then Dylann Roof wouldn`t have been able to get a gun.  So, I

think it speaks to the fact that we prioritized the ability of people to

get a gun and really leaning on the side of anyone being able to get a gun

over having a thorough background check system.  And there`s also another

piece here which is a lot of reluctance among the pro-gun community to give

any information about who owns guns and their background and their history

to the federal government that makes it very hard to have an effective

background check system. 

IZADI:  And this is actually -- shows that this particular tragic incident

is a case study in how something can -- people who are already anti-new gun

laws and people who are already wanting more restrictions and more controls

on who gets a gun, both sides can look at what happened and see that

there`s -- that they have a legitimate concern and their position is

legitimate.  And also, this incident I don`t think is going to create any

momentum, real momentum to actually do something, let`s say, in South

Carolina where Nikki Haley, a republican governor was the one who led the

charge to bring down the confederate flag. 

BALL:  Right.

IZADI:  But on guns she`s very clear.  And in the past she`s supported

legislation that would make it easier for people to get guns and you

wouldn`t even have to get a permit or training to get a gun.  So this isn`t

really going to change the conversation anymore than any other incident. 

KORNACKI:  Right.  I think what Bernie Sanders is trying to do here and it

reminds me so much, we`re always drawing comparisons to between him and

Howard Dean.  And they`re both from Vermont, they`re both sort of landed

left -- 

BALL:  Yes.

KORNACKI: -- but that was the issue also where Howard Dean was sort of at

odds with the democratic base.  And Howard Dean`s point when he ran for

president 12 years ago and Bernie Sanders, listen to him is making the same

argument now.  He is basically saying the idea of having national policy on

guns doesn`t make sense because a gun means something very different in

Vermont, he`s saying.  Where in Vermont, it`s used for hunting, it`s used

for food on the table.  He said, in a city like Chicago where you`re seeing

it every weekend, it`s killing people.  It`s being used differently.  And

he`s saying, we have to have a political discussion that reflects that.  I

wonder what you think of that. 

BALL:  I mean, on the policy, the problem with that view is that then if

you have lenient gun laws in one place and the next-door neighbor doesn`t

has stricter gun laws, then you`ve sort of negated the ability of the state

with the stricter gun laws to be able to really enforce who is bringing

what into their state.  I mean, I do think that it`s interesting what

Bernie Sanders that this is the one place where he hasn`t been consistently

on the Left.  I wonder if there`s been too much made of this issue though. 

Because in a modern context, I`m not sure where he actually would differ

from Hillary Clinton in terms of a policy prescription which will be one of

the things that will be interesting to see come out in the debates.  


IZADI:  And it`s also a way for her to attack Bernie Sanders and his record

without really directly attacking him and attacking policies that the

liberal base actually supports.  

KORNACKI:  Right.  Any time she can kind of get to his left without much

political risk.

IZADI:  Yes, exactly. 

KORNACKI:  I think she`s going to be taking it.  

Anyway, still ahead, did Scott Walker accidentally let the cat out of the


And next, the latest on the potential deal that could keep Greece in the

Eurozone.  That`s next. 


KORNACKI:  Greece now has just one day to reach a deal with its creditors

and avoid a likely exit from the Eurozone.  There`s growing hope this

morning that a deal can be reached though with Greece`s parliament voting

overwhelmingly this morning to approve the Greek prime minister`s latest

proposal, an offer that includes many concessions.  It`s the creditors,

except Greece`s proposal, the country could get another three-year loan to

keep its economy afloat. 

Joining us now to discuss all of what is happening over there, we have CNBC

contributor Ron Insana.  So, Ron, thank you for being here.


KORNACKI:  And this is -- it`s such an important issue and it`s one that I

want to understand.  And I have to be honest, it`s something that I`ve

struggled to understand in reading about it.  

INSANA:  Many of us have.  Yes.  

KORNACKI:  So, that`s why we have you here, to try to give us some clarity

on this.  So, let`s start with this.  Right now this thing has passed

parliament.  This new deal has past parliament.  It`s going to go in

Greece.  Now, it`s going to go to the EU to decide if they`ll going to

accept this.  But is it likely they`ll accept it and what will that mean?

INSANA:  Well, we`ve heard some cooing noises so far from France and other

members of the European Union that the Greece government has come toward

the creditors to meet their demands, whether it`s reforming their pension

system, their retirement age, getting their fiscal house in order and

balancing their budget, all of those steps have been promise now by Greece

where they were rejected not too long ago.  Now, that would come in

exchange for $83 billion in fresh cash which Greece desperately needs.  Its

banking system is running out of money, its GDP has collapsed by over 25

percent.  So, they need money.  What we don`t know is where Germany stands

at the moment on this, whether they feel Greece has come far enough and

will do enough in order to really right their fiscal house.  You know how

people complain about our country being, you know, a little bit profligate

when it comes to spending.  Greece makes us look like a very tight wads by


KORNACKI:  Well, so, a week ago, the story was, you had this referendum in

Greece and they rejected these -- they rejected the terms of Germany, they

rejected the terms of Europe.  Now they`re giving in.  Are they back to

where they were before the referendum?

INSANA:  Yes, I mean, Europe starved them.  Right?  I mean, what really

happened in the interim is that the European Central Bank which was

providing emergency cash to the Greek banking system capped the amount of

money that they were sending over.  That forced the banks to shut down. 

So, Greeks could only take out 60 euros a day.  And if they were to do that

for an extended period of time, the banking system Steve would simply run

out of money, absolutely, literally run out of cash.  They have a deepening

economic crisis, 26 percent unemployment rate.  The youth unemployment rate

there is 52 percent.  Without any fresh funds they collapse and probably

leave the Eurozone and abandon the Euro as a currency, being forced to go

back to the old currency, the drachma.  

KORNACKI:  Okay.  And so, what does that mean?  I mean, the states -- does

Greece stay in the Eurozone?  What does that mean?

INSANA:  Correct.  All right.  Well, it`s both political and economic.  If

they were to leave the Eurozone without any fresh cash, it`s bad enough

that the Greek economy has already collapsed by 26 percent.  It would go

into free fall.  That would be horrible for the Greek people.  Then if they

exit the Eurozone for which there is no legal mechanism in Europe, it would

call into question the integrity of the single currency, the currency union

in Europe and whether or not peripheral countries also heavily indebted

like Portugal, Italy, Spain and Ireland, would want similar debt relief if

it passes or whether they would be vulnerable to leaving as well which

would just blow up the entire experiment that started in 1999.  So, there

are both political and economic dimensions to this that would be, if they

went the wrong way, fairly catastrophic for the European Union.  

KORNACKI:  There is also a lot of commentary that I`ve read that`s been

very critical of Germany, they says Germany`s role in this has, they`ve

been too hard on Greece basically.  The terms have been unreasonable and

they`ve sort of made the situation worse in Greece.  Is there anything to


INSANA:  Well, some might argue them.  Certainly, the International

Monetary Fund wants Germany to approve debt relief reducing the amount of

outstanding debt that Greece owes to the European Union.  The U.S. has

supported that position as well.  Having said that, what most people don`t

realize is that Greece already doesn`t have to pay interest principle on

its outstanding debt for the next five years.  Greece wanted as much as a

20-year moratorium on its debt which Germany finds somewhat unacceptable. 

Northern Europe is financing the 45-year-old retirement age in Greece, the

very generous pensions that Greek workers get.  And so, what`s at stake

here is a precedent in which, do the rich countries of Europe continue to

subsidize all of the poor countries of Europe at taxpayer expense?  And so

that`s where in Germany it comes down particularly hard because it`s the

best performing economy in Europe.  They have the most money.  They`re also

on the hook for the most Greek debt.  So that`s why they`ve drawn such a

hard line in the sand.  

KORNACKI:  Forty five-year-old retirement age. 

INSANA:  Well, you know, we should all be so lucky.  Right? 


INSANA:  I mean, by the same token, it`s unsustainable.  Right?  There`s

$86 billion in taxes that have not been paid by the Greek people. 

Literally the same amount of money they`re asking for for the next three

years has gone uncollected in the tax system.  So, there are some problems

in Greece that need to be dealt with forthrightly and it hasn`t happened

really in the last several years. 

KORNACKI:  Okay.  Well, it`s a drama that`s playing out this weekend.  We

will see what happens tomorrow night when the EU makes that decision. 

MSNBC Ron Insana, thank you for joining us.  

INSANA:  Thank you.  

KORNACKI:  I appreciate that.  We are staying on top of a developing story

as well this morning in Serbia where an angry crowd has thrown rocks, water

bottles and other objects at that country`s prime minister breaking his

glasses.  This played out at a cemetery to lay flowers to commemorate the

20th anniversary of genocide in Srebrenica.  That`s Europe`s worst massacre

since the holocaust. 

Still ahead on the show today, negotiators in Vienna working all weekend

long to meet their new Monday deadline for a nuclear deal with Iran. 

But first, the accidental presidential campaign announcement that hit the

internet yesterday that left one campaign hitting delete, delete, delete. 

Stay with us. 


KORNACKI:  All right.  There`s a lot going on this morning.  Let`s get

caught up with some of the other headlines making news.  Our panel is back

with us. 

Let`s go to "The Washington Post" which tells us, whoops, Scott Walker`s

Twitter account jumps the gun, announces his run for president.  So,

yesterday, there it is.  Scott Walker`s campaign said, he`s running for

president on Twitter.  The tweet was quickly deleted.  A Twitter

spokesperson said, they are looking into the issue.  And this is

interesting.  The Walker team is not at fault. 


KORNACKI:  So something went screwy there.  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Is anonymous behind that?

KORNACKI:  Was there a hack?  Did the Donald strike?  I don`t know what it



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  But we`ll see what happens. 

HAYWORTH:  No, they must have left it up to the federal government to do

the tweet and they got him. 

BALL:  I mean, I think that we`re all shocked that Scott Walker is going to

be running for president.  I had no -- I did not see that coming at all

until Twitter told me.  

KORNACKI:  That`s what I mean?  Why delete the thing once it`s up there?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes.  But if you are going to hack, aren`t you going

to put something a little bit more embarrassing up?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes, that`s a good point. 

KORNACKI:  You know -- he`s not running for president. 


KORNACKI:  I don`t know.  Anyway, thinking like a hacker here.  Let`s see

what`s in "The New York Times," a book review of Harper Lee`s, "Go set a

watch men."  This is incredibly controversial, the book, not the review. 

The book is incredibly controversial now because of course, people weren`t

sure that Harper Lee really wanted this released 50 years after "To Kill a

Mockingbird."  But the character, Atticus Finch, one of the most beloved

characters in all of the fiction history, becomes -- here is his quote,

according from the review here.  "Atticus is a racist who once attended a

clan meeting who says things like that the negroes down here are still in

their childhood as a people.  Asks his daughter, do you want negroes by the

carload in our schools, churches and theaters?  Do you want them in our


BALL:  Wow!

KORNACKI:  This is Atticus Finch, the character in this new Harper Lee

book.  We say, no, it was written about 50, you know, years ago.  But wow.  

BALL:  Right.  It`s wild and it`s wild to think -- I mean, that book was so

influential and so inspirational and really pushed social change forward. 

It`s unbelievable to think that, you know, if the first manuscript had been

accepted, what this would have been.  

KORNACKI:  People walk around to this day with the name Atticus because

their parents were so inspired by his character, by the movie character by

Gregory Peck.  So, I guess what the story here though is, this was the

original version.  This is what Harper Lee originally wanted the book to

be, about a 25-year-old girl who comes back to Alabama and reckons with her

racist father.  And she sent it off to a publisher and the publisher

basically said, you know, try something else.  She came up with, okay, now

the father is a hero.  

IZADI:  Well, maybe there`s a reason why that original manuscript wasn`t

published.  So, maybe we`re finding out now.  I don`t know.  

KORNACKI:  It raises the question, did she really want this published.  

IZADI:  Yes.

KORNACKI:  Given, you know?  Let`s see what else is making news here. 

"Variety" tells us that Roger Reese, the actor in "Cheers" and "The West

Wing," in Nicholas Nickleby, he dies at the age of 71.  Remember him, I

remember him as Robin Colcord, the billionaire, millionaire, whatever from

London who comes over and marries Rebecca Howe on "Cheers."  Very sad news

there.  And we also have this from WECT Television station I think in North

Carolina.  Look at this.  Shark bites dolphin.  The dolphin died yesterday

morning after he`s being injured by a shark at Kure Beach in North

Carolina.  The dolphin had a deep bite to its tail.  North Carolina has

seen a record number of shark attacks obviously in recent weeks.  A lot of

this involving people but this is obviously really sad, too.  

BALL:  We had a shark expert on "THE CYCLE," you know, the other show that

I do, and he was telling us that actually a big part of the problem is

overfishing.  And so the sharks just don`t have the food that they are

looking for and they`re getting very desperate.  

KORNACKI:  And so they come closer and they come closer in.  And they

always tell you, you know, it`s still safe, look at the statistics go, in

the water and be careful.  How do you be careful if a shark is 20 feet away

from you?

HAYWORTH:  You can`t possibly.  You know, you really do have to follow

common sense.  And, you know, that`s why we have swimming pools.  

KORNACKI:  Thank you. 


Common sense. 


There are stingrays, there are jellyfish, there are sharks. 

BALL:  Right.  Well, I will point out.  Humans kill way more sharks than

sharks kill --   

KORNACKI:  Wow!  Yes.  You`re exactly right.  Krystal Ball, shame on you

for standing up for the sharks like that. 

Another full hour of news and politics still to come, including one

reporter`s attempt to dig into the questions of how well we really no know

Bernie Sanders.  He came up with something very interesting.  That`s ahead. 

Stay with us.  


KORNACKI:  Making or breaking the Iran deal. 


KORNACKI:  Thanks for staying with us this Saturday morning. 

At this hour in Vienna, talks in Iran over that country`s nuclear program

are officially in over time.  The deadline extended.  And the rhetoric over

who is at fault for the delay is heating up.  We`re going to go live in a

moment to Vienna for reaction and all of the latest.

Also ahead this hour, we`re going to look at the Jeb Bush surge that is

actually happening right now.  The question is, how long will it last?

Plus, the White House state dinner with very special attendees, all of them

ages 8 through 12, with something called Barack-omoli (ph) on the menu. 

Also, the Girl Scout with a thing or to teach all of us about closing the

deal.  She is the world record holder for cookie sales.  You won`t believe

how many boxes she sold.  She is going to be along later to show us how to

get things done. 

But we begin this hour with yet another deadline missed in those historic

nuclear talks with Iran.  Negotiators in Vienna yesterday blowing through

their deadline for a final deal for the third time now in 11 days.  They

are racing against a clock to meet their new deadline, a deadline just two

days away. 


JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE:  We have a couple different lines of

discussion that are going on right now, but I think it`s safe to say that

we have made progress today.  The atmosphere is very constructive.  We

still have a couple of very difficult issues and we`ll be sitting down to

discuss those in the very near term. 


KORNACKI:  In the extended quest for a landmark deal with Iran, John Kerry

making some history of his own.  He has devoted more time to a single

negotiation than any American official in more than four decades.  But

whether Kerry can deliver a nuclear deal with Iran is still very much an

open question.  Iranians publicly blaming the U.S. for the delay, while

U.S. officials are saying the Iranians made new demands this week, calling

for an end on an embargo on conventional arms.

President Obama huddled with U.S. negotiators on Wednesday by a video

conference from the Situation Room.  The night before, he told Senate

Democrats that he put the odds of a deal at less than 50 percent.  By

missing yesterday`s deadline, the Obama administration also missed the

window for expedited congressional review of a final deal.  Congress will

now have 60 days, that is twice the amount of time they would have had if a

deal was struck before now to approve any deal negotiators hammer out. 

That is yet another obstacle in the path to a final agreement. 

Joining us now for the latest from Vienna is NBC News chief foreign affairs

correspondent, Andrea Mitchell. 

Andrea, thanks for taking a few moments this morning. 

So, tell us, we have this new deadline two days away.  What are the

obstacles standing between these folks and a final deal? 


lot of smaller issues that still have to be finessed or polished or honed,

if you will, in the words of the Russian foreign minister the other day. 

But the big thing that emerged this week was Iran really raising the level

of its demand for a lift of the embargo that has been in place.  There have

been three U.N. resolutions embargoing arms deliveries to or sales from

Iran from 2006, 2007, 2009, from the U.N. Security Council. 

These resolutions would require a lifting of the embargo.  The resolutions

would have to be canceled.  Iran made that demand.  These are non-nuclear

issues.  This is conventional weapons, but it includes ballistic missiles. 

And it was a real red line to the president apparently in that video

conference call on Wednesday night.  So, whereas Iran thought with Russia

and China`s help, Russia, in particular, wants to sell arms to Iran and be

able to get back into a very lucrative business there.

With Russia`s help, Iran was basically dividing the Security Council.  The

first time we`ve seen a real division among the negotiating partners here

on what`s called the P5-plus-one, the Security Council permanent members

plus Germany.  That created enormous strains.  Vladimir Putin exploited

that.  In a previously scheduled summit, including Iran`s President Rouhani

on Thursday and Friday in Moscow. 

So, there was a lot of tension back and fourth, blame back and forth.  I

think part of this was both the U.S. and Iran trying to show its critics,

its hard liners, if you will, and I know they`re not analogous, but the

hard liners in Iran that want to kill any deal, the critics of this who

include some prominent Democrats as well as a lot of Republicans and

presidential candidates, Republican candidates in both capitals, who would

like to kill the deal even though they don`t know the details yet.  Their

read on the emerging deal has been very, very negative. 

And so, each side, each negotiator, Zarif on one side, the foreign minister

of Iran, Secretary Kerry want to show that they`ve been tough.  They`ve

gone past these deadlines.  They rang the last bit of concessions out of

their adversaries.

Now, the question is, can they come together?  The best prognosis is that

they might at the earliest tomorrow -- Steve. 

KORNACKI:  And, Andrea, as we say, there`s been so many delays in this

whole process.  This is another two-day extension. 

MITCHELL:  Absolutely.

KORNACKI:  If they don`t come together tomorrow, is Monday a hard deadline,

or is just there just another extension after that?

MITCHELL:  I`m afraid to say it`s just another extension after that because

if they believe they`re making progress -- they`ve been doing this for 20

months.  The feeling by the U.S. officials is that every time the Iranians

go back to Tehran, the U.S. loses ground because things have that been

conceded to at the table are criticized back home.  They then have to

revisit a lot of this stuff.

The feeling by the Iranians is that every time John Kerry talks to people

in Washington, they lose ground.  So, their accusations of reneging on both


Just a clarification, by the way, on John Kerry`s track record -- this

would be the longest time that a U.S. secretary of state has been overseas

on a single mission, but not compared to George Schultz, Jim Baker or Henry

Kissinger who traveled all the time for 30 days at a time, Henry

Kissinger`s record.  But that would be ricocheting around the world on

different projects.  This would be sitting in foreign capital for 15 days,

it`s pretty extraordinary and not devoting real attention to the rest of

the world.  It`s a big commitment. 

KORNACKI:  All right.  Andrea Mitchell in Vienna, keeping a close eye on

those negotiations.  Obviously, that story playing out this weekend.  We

will keep a close eye on it as well.  Thank you, though, Andrea. 

Appreciate that.

Joining me now is retired four-star U.S. General Wesley Clark.  He was a

former NATO supreme allied commander and one-time Democratic presidential


General, welcome. 

General, first, I`m just curious, Andrea`s report right there, this issue

that emerged in the last few days about weapons sanctions, not nuclear

sanctions, weapons sanctions on a shipment of arms into and out of Iran. 

Iran wants those sanctions eased as part of this.  They say, hey, those

sanctions are in place because of the nuclear program.  If we cut a deal in

the nuclear program, those sanctions should no longer be in place.  The

Obama administration saying that`s a red line.

Do you think that`s something that has the potential to and that should

potentially trip up a deal? 


certainly has a potential to trip up the deal.  But I think it`s also a

crucial mistake by Iran in the negotiations. 

I`ll tell you why, Steve, because the big challenge for the United States

is to explain to the people and to the Congress why giving in to Iran`s

demand for nuclear energy and centrifuges and then releasing money back to

them that was held in the sanctions is in the long-term interest of the

United States, given the fact that Iran hasn`t committed to change its

conduct and is pursuing any number of military activities and other

aggressive activity in the region.  It`s a terrorist state. 

So, by opening up this new avenue of talk on conventional arm transfers,

Iran opens the door for the United States to come back with a new set of

demands, constraining Iran`s behavior.  I hope that we`re doing that

because this is a much more constructive avenue of approach than simply a

one-off trade on the nuclear technology. 

KORNACKI:  I`m curious, though, what you think happens if this weekend

results in no deal.  Andrea is saying probably if that happens, then this

Monday deadline becomes a new deadline maybe a couple days down the road. 

But if these negotiations eventually fail to produce some kind of an

agreement, what is the way forward then? 

CLARK:  I think it`s continuing discussions on a new framework for an

agreement.  I think we`re into a dialogue that`s going to continue and

continue and continue, because it`s not just about nuclear weapons.  It`s

about the future of the region.  It`s about terrorism.  It`s about

conventional arms transfers. 

And behind that conventional arms transfer request by Iran, of course, it`s

very easy to see what`s behind it.  They not only want to develop a

deterrent capacity with ballistic missiles that can strike the U.S.

homeland or threaten to, but they also want improved air defenses so the

United States doesn`t have the military option. 

So, I think they`ve made, as I say, a tactical mistake in bringing this

into the dialogue, but I think that if there`s a pause, if there`s an

adjournment, if there`s a temporary failure, I think you`re going to

continue to see continuing negotiations with Iran on a variety of issues. 

Iran is a nation.  It`s powerful.  It`s got a young dynamic population.  It

wants its place in the region and the United States is constraining that. 

We want Iran to behave responsibly in the region.  And between those two

sets of demands, that`s the stuff of dialogue and unfortunately maybe

conflict, more open conflict if it`s not resolved. 

KORNACKI:  Well, if there is a deal, of course, there`s now the aspect of

congressional opinion being offered.  They`d have 60 days.  Congress has

given themselves 60 days to weigh in on any deal that would be struck at

this point. 

Given the resistance you`ve seen from so many in Congress already to the

idea of negotiations with Iran, let alone any deal that`s struck, what are

the keys in your mind of President Obama being able to sell a deal to Iran? 

What are the key things he absolutely has to have in there to be able to

sell this deal to Congress? 

CLARK:  Well, I think it`s not only to say to Congress, well, what`s the

alternative if we don`t sign, he`s already rolled out the very heavy

penetrating bombs that would be the alternative conceptually if we didn`t


I think he`s got to be able to address Iran`s behavior in the domain after

there`s a signature.  In other words, Iran gets $100 million.  What do they

do?  Go on an arms buying splurge, build a super highway into Syria so they

can roll columns of tanks in there and continue their conquest of the

Middle East?  What`s going to happen? 

Congress doesn`t want to endorse that, and neither does the president.  So,

the president has got to come to terms with this issue and its explanation. 

It really is about Iran itself, not just about the nuclear discussion. 

KORNACKI:  All right.  Thanks as always to retired General Wesley Clark. 

Appreciate your thoughts this morning. 

CLARK:  Thank you, Steve. 

And still ahead, my interview with one of the greatest salespeople I`ve

ever met and you will ever meet.  She isn`t even old enough to drive a car. 

Before that, though, next Jeb Bush`s summer surge as the former Florida

governor finally emerging as the GOP front-runner.


KORNACKI:  Some new developments to tell you about in the effort to reach a

deal with Greece that would keep the country in the Eurozone.  The head of

the Eurogroup cautioning a deal is not as imminent as some might think. 

The finance minister of the Netherlands saying there is, quote, "a major

issue of trust" on whether Greece can push through the reforms that are

needed.  We`ll keep an eye on that. 

And meanwhile, pivoting to politics -- after weeks of questions about the

direction of his campaign and maybe even his viability adds a candidate,

Jeb Bush is suddenly enjoying a surge.  News breaking on Thursday that the

super PAC supporting him raised $103 million in the first half of the year. 

That broke the $100 million goal that was widely reported to be that super

PAC`s goal.  That is also on top of the $11.4 million that Bush`s actual

campaign raised in the 16 days that followed his formal entry into the


The former Florida government`s poll numbers are climbing as well, along

with its coffers, jumping 5 1/2 points in the Real Clear Politics polling

average, since his June 15th campaign launch and putting him almost six

points ahead of any other candidate. 

"Politico`s" Eli Stokol calls this Jeb Bush`s summer surge but asks the

question, will it last?

Back at here the table to talk about this, we have our panel Elahe Izadi

with "The Washington Post", former Republican congresswoman from New York,

Nan Hayworth, and MSNBC`s Krystal Ball, co-host of "The Cycle".

So, let me put an idea out there.  We always talk about on this show, we

talk about it, we`ve been -- everybody has been talking about it for the

last week.  Donald Trump is doing so much damage to the Republican Party,

doing so much damage to all these Republican candidates, Nan, I think

Donald Trump is helping Jeb Bush. 

HAYWORTH:  Absolutely. 

KORNACKI:  All those other candidates, nobody is hearing from them right

now.  It`s just Jeb and Donald. 

HAYWORTH:  Right.  Governor Bush is the grownup, he`s the professional.  He

looks and sounds presidential.  He gave a terrific announcement speech that

was very inspiring.  He speaks Spanish at home.  His wife is Latina.  It`s

a marvelous --

KORNACKI:  As Donald Trump pointed out.  They`re basically attacking his



HAYWORTH:  And for most people, that is what Donald Trump is doing, it`s

going to strike a sour note.  And Governor Bush can instead look like the

man who is positive, who has solutions and who is going to be able to lead

us forward.  That`s why I think he raised so much money, he`s a


BALL:  I agree with your theory in the short-term at least.  It is -- it

has been good for him because no one is paying attention -- people aren`t

thinking that much about Scott Walker`s announcement on Monday. 

KORNACKI:  Maybe that`s why he accidently tweeted it. 

BALL:  Maybe we figured it out.  We haven`t heard much from Marco Rubio.  I

think you`re absolutely right about that in the short term. 

The question is, how much damage Donald Trump is doing to the Republican

Party brand and if that`s going to be the issue for Jeb Bush ultimately in

a general election?  Because I think that`s the bigger problem.  I mean,

the Republicans tried so hard to make this nominating process not to be the

clown car it was last time around.  Now with Donald Trump in, it`s

officially a clown car again. 

KORNACKI:  I will say, trump has been good for Jeb Bush.  I`m playing

ahead, Elahe, to that debate next month.  I mean, there is -- of all the

candidates that Trump is running against, he`s delighting in tweaking Bush

more than the others.  He`s on stage, pointing to him, pointing his finger

in his face.  Jeb, you`re a loser, just get over the fact, you`re a loser,

you can`t stand up to Russia, can`t stand up to me. 

IZADI:  I`m really impressed by your --


KORNACKI:  Thank you.   I`m usually terrible at celebrity -- 


KORNACKI:  I`ll do debate prep.  Yes, hire me out for that. 

I`m imagining, it becomes a thing, it`s not even a test of Jeb Bush as an

explainer of policies.  It becomes this very almost like primal test. 

Donald Trump is in your face, calling you names, telling you you`re a weak

person.  You`ve got to stand up to him in a meaningful way on that stage. 

IZADI:  Yes, and if he can kind of come across as the grownup in the room

and as the one who is willing to stand up to Donald Trump even though

Donald Trump might be articulating some views that a segment of the base

really wants.  If he can appear to be rising above that, that can

definitely appeal to not just primary voters but in a general. 

So, I think he can play it that way.  You`re right.  It puts you in the --

I hope he`s prepared for that. 

KORNACKI:  How do you do it?  It takes a certain amount of almost acting

skill.  If you try to stand up to Donald Trump and you`re a little

hesitant, you`re a little tentative, stumble over your word, he`s going to

jump you. 


BALL:  He`s not bound by facts.  He will say whatever he feels like saying. 

KORNACKI:  If you hit him with statistics, he`ll say wrong numbers. 

BALL:  Wrong numbers.  Yes, I mean, look, these debates we all know, as

much as we would love for them to be contest of ideas, people are left with

lasting impression that`s much more about the visuals and the tone and who

was tough and who was weak.  I do think that`s going to be tough.  And I do

think that Jeb needs to hire you as his debate prep coach -- 


KORNACKI:  The 2000 presidential debate, it was Bush versus Gore.  Gore was

coached in that third debate, a physical statement, his like, he`s sort of

alpha male-ness, and it is to walk up to George W. Bush while he was

speaking, it was a town hall meeting that.  They could walk around the


It ended up this moment where Gore approaches him.  It`s kind of awkward. 

It`s kind of hesitant.  And Bush just stops, looks at him and gives this

little nod.  It was, to the extent the moment mattered, Bush clearly won


BALL:  Yes.

HAYWORTH:  Well, Jeb -- Governor Jeb Bush needs what I -- I`m thinking of

Ronald Reagan as well.  When Ronald Reagan was commanding in that primary

debate, decades ago when he said I paid for this microphone.  And I`m going

to -- slightly different situation, but the same point, that he can look --

Jeb Bush can put -- he can put Donald Trump down in a very professional

way, then he will prevail.  He`ll have an incredible opportunity. 

KORNACKI:  Right.  It`s a huge opportunity.  It`s a huge risk.  I`ve got to

imagine, they`re all thinking, right now, what is the line?  If Donald

comes after me, what`s the line? 

But I just think the thing with Trump that`s different than the other

candidates, is like, you can prepare that line, you can rehearse it, you

can even deliver it well.  And there`s a chance Trump is going to turn

right around, not miss a beat and you`re not going to know what to do. 

BALL:  And you`ve got nothing left. 

KORNACKI:  And it`s a bust instead of a breakthrough. 

HAYWORTH:  A test of improvisational skills. 

IZADI:  He should go to second city or something. 

KORNACKI:  After he finishes the Steve Kornacki school of debate

preparation.  Right.  It hasn`t failed anyone yet.  It hasn`t worked for

anyone either. 


KORNACKI:  But anyway, still ahead: new revelations about Bernie Sanders`

life from the years before he became a U.S. senator. 

And next, what just happened at Spain`s famous running of the bulls that

hasn`t happened in more than a century.  


KORNACKI:  All right.  Starting now with something you`ll never see me do,

the running of the bulls in Pamplona, Spain.  Four people were gored on the

fifth day of the festival.  Five others suffered cuts and bruises.  One of

the six bulls actually turned back and returned to its holding pen.  It

didn`t want to run the race.  It`s not really a race.  But you know what I


Historians say the last time that happened was during a run in the 19th

century.  Thousands of people packed the streets of Pamplona each summer

for the nine-day festival, either daring to run with the bulls themselves

or simply cheering on those who are brave, if brave is the right word,

brave enough to run. 

We`re expecting an even larger crowd this September, interesting segue

here, at the Global Citizen Festival, Beyonce, Pearl Jam, Ed Sheeran and

Coldplay will headline the concert in Central Park here in New York on

September 26th. 

Beyonce made this special announcement about it this week. 


BEYONCE:  I`m proud to announce Chime for Change will be joining Global

Citizen with the goal of ending extreme poverty by 2030.  Chime for change

will be bringing hundreds of initiatives dedicated to education, health and

justice for girls and women everywhere. 

So, please visit and choose how you can help.  Thank you. 


KORNACKI:  Also being told at this year`s Global Citizen Festival, there

will be no bulls.

For more information on this year`s festival including how to earn tickets,

go to  Be sure to join us on MSNBC on Saturday,

September 26th for special live coverage of that event.  You`re not going

to want to miss it.

Still ahead, the Girl Scout who sold -- get this -- 22,000 boxes of

cookies, breaking her own world record with lessons for all of us about how

to close the deal.  She`ll be along.  That`s coming up. 

And next: the news about Bernie Sanders that the senator manage to keep to

himself for his entire political career until now.

Stay with us.


KORNACKI:  There`s very little we don`t seem to know about the key moments

in the life of Hillary Clinton -- childhood outside Chicago, student

commencement speaker of Wellesley, Yale Law School, marriage to her law

school classmate, partnership at the Rose law firm in Little Rock, as her

husband Bill built a political career, first in the Arkansas governor`s

office and then on the national stage, a daughter named Chelsea, the White

House, the Lewinsky scandal, the Senate, the State Department.  Hillary

Clinton`s life in not an open book is at least a heavily scrutinized and

very familiar one.

But not so much for her closest rival for the 2016 Democratic nomination. 

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont has managed to keep huge swaths of his

personal life off limits, even as he has succeeded in politics.  First as

the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, then a congressman, now a U.S. senator

who is now running for president.  Sanders is so private that it wasn`t

until yesterday that we learned that his only child, a son, was born out of

wedlock and not during his first marriage.  We learned this in a "Politico"

magazine article titled "Bernie Sanders Has a Secret."

There`s absolutely nothing wrong with having a child out of wedlock,

obviously.  It`s something that is notable in this context, only to point

out that if Hillary Clinton were the parent of an illegitimate child,

instead of Bernie Sanders, the nation not only would have heard about it

long before now, it would have been dissected over and over and over and


Bernie Sanders proves it is possible to be a United States senator and keep

large sections of your private life off limits.  But can the same be said

once you`ve decided to run for president?

Joining us now is Michael Kruse, senior writer in "Politico" and the author

of that article about Senator Sanders.  Michael joins us now.

Thank you very for taking a few minutes.  Tell us the story of how you

learned this.  Part of the story I`m interested in hearing is how you

reported it out, because you`re dealing with a senator who doesn`t ever

want to talk about his private life in any way. 

MICHAEL KRUSE, POLITICO:  Sure.  Thanks for having me on. 

So, I went up to Vermont, interested just broadly in Bernie Sanders in the

1970s, this fascinating formative time in which he went from perennial

third party loser to the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in 1981. 

My reporting took me somewhere frankly I didn`t expect to go, which was

making a public records request for the birth certificate of his son which,

of course, showed that the mother of the son is not Bernie Sanders` ex-wife

which had never been reported in 44 years of his public political life. 

The story I wrote and the choices I made and how I provided the context was

not about that fact.  It was about how that fact managed to not get

reported, managed to not get talked about at least publicly for so long.  I

think it says something about Bernie Sanders and his priorities.  It says

something about Vermont and the Vermont press corps and their priorities. 

KORNACKI:  Yes, it`s interesting.  I mean, to read your article, there are

so many fascinating details in there.  He tried to be a carpenter at one

point in the 1970s.  Apparently, he was not a good carpenter. 

He was living on unemployment insurance for a while.  When he got his first

election as mayor of Burlington, he was 40 years old, about $30,000 a year. 

So, it`s more money than he had ever made in his life.  Some fascinating


But I guess the thing I took away was, this is a guy from Brooklyn, New

York, who wound up in Vermont after college, and he really found the

perfect place for himself. 

KRUSE:  He did.  It suited him very, very well.  It was the kind of place

where he could talk about what he wanted to talk about to a receptive

audience.  He was a more racially oriented radical activist in college, but

when he gets to Vermont, he turns his focus to economic justice which he

had been talking about ever since with sort of startling consistency. 

Vermont, they knew him or they knew of him and they`ve known of him for a

long, long time and they let him, for better or for worse, talk about what

he wanted to talk about. 

KORNACKI:  Let me bring the panel into this.

And I`m curious what you guys make of this.  We always have debates about

what`s off limits, what`s fair game.  Bernie Sanders has tried to draw this

line his whole political career, that basically nothing that isn`t

literally or explicitly about policy, nothing is relevant.  He doesn`t want

to talk about anything.  And he`s been successful as Michael is saying, in

establishing this zone of privacy. 

Now, he`s running for president.  The expectations in a national political

campaign, especially when you start to get some traction in the polling, a

little different. 

BALL:  Definitely a little different.  To your point, he`s not only avoided

this sort of scrutiny, but he`s actually turned it into one of his core

principles, right?  Like this campaign isn`t about me and my personality

and my life and where I lived and those sorts of things.  It`s about the

principles, it`s about the policies, it`s about the people. 

And so, he does something very effectively that usually Republicans are

much better at which is an attack and critique of the media.  He says the

media doesn`t focus on what`s important, they`re trying to focus on my

personal life when people want to hear about how they`re going to get jobs

and how they put food on the table, which frankly I think is an argument

that continues to work in a presidential campaign. 

KORNACKI:  But it does seem -- how much do people want to know?  You`ve

been a candidate before.  How much do people want to know about you as a

person versus being what your policy positions are and everything? 

HAYWORTH:  I think people do like to -- certainly, it`s political trope

that people like to get to know you as a person, they`ll be hard pressed to

dislike someone who has a favorable biography.  You know, you want to

present yourself in a favorable light, family, personal, whatever. 

Personally, I agree with Bernie Sanders, it is about the policy.  That`s

exactly right.  But what I do want to know about the person, are you a

hypocrite?  You know, if you are -- and he is not.  He does not rail

against families who have children out of wedlock or any of those things. 

BALL:  Right.

HAYWORTH:  So, I don`t see any evidence of hypocrisy in his background. 

But what I do see key, the one in his personal life, what I do see that is

interesting is that he is -- that he lived for a long time on the benefits

of the state, if you will, and that`s not at odds with his policy stance,

so I give him that.  But I do have a significant problem with choosing that


KORNACKI:  I imagine former congresswoman -- 


HAYWORTH:  Right, as a way of living.

KORNACKI:  Michael, let me just ask you this.  So, have you since this

article came out, have you heard from Senator Sanders, from his staff, from

the people around him?  What`s been their reaction to this? 

KRUSE:  I think their reaction to my reporting even before the story ran,

when I talked to them before the story ran, their reaction was very calm,

very methodical.  I thought it was impressive to be honest, answered every

question I had and then when I said, is there anything else that you`d like

to add, Michael Briggs, Bernie Sanders` spokesman, went back to the

policies which I thought was totally fair and reflected his priorities and

reflected his key issues. 

The story I think gets at the fact that both of these things are fair game

when you`re running for president.  People should focus on the issues.  But

there are certain details about your personal life that should not be off

limits anymore, especially when you`re running for president.  It all adds

up to the total package that people need to know about if you want people

to vote for you for president. 

KORNACKI:  Can never accuse Bernie Sanders, Krystal, of not being on


BALL:  Yes. 

KORNACKI:  That`s one takeaway. 

My thanks to "Politico`s" Michael Kruse. 

Up next, a world record holder joins me right here.  We`re putting her

skills to the test with our very own original UP sales challenge.  You are

not going to want to miss this.

Stay tuned.


KORNACKI:  It is not every day that we have a world record holder on this

show, but yesterday, 13-year-old world record holder Katie Francis stopped

by UP world headquarters to have fun with us.  Katie sold 22,200 boxes of

Girl Scout cookies this year, 22,200.  Think of that for a second.  That

shattered her own world record which she set last year. 

Katie sells cookies so fast that she keeps 10,000 boxes of cookies stashed

in her garage at any given time.  Now, Katie is addressing the Oklahoma

professional sales association this month.  But yesterday, she was here and

we decided to put her to the test to find out just how good a sales woman

she actually is.  We recruited some of my colleagues here at 30 Rock. 

Check this out. 


KORNACKI:  You are a great salesperson obviously to sell that many cookies,

that small amount of time.  What happens when somebody says no to you? 

KATIE FRANCIS, COOKIE-SELLING CHAMP:  Well, I just move on and try to find

the next person, because I found through the sale that about three out of

every five people will say yes.  So, I`ve just got to find those three


KORNACKI:  Some people say, what is the test of the ultimate salesperson? 

It`s selling somebody something they don`t want or don`t need, right? 

FRANCIS:  Right. 

KORNACKI:  Getting them to say, you know, I don`t need it but I want it

anyway.  So, we thought we would bring three of my colleagues out, three of

my MSNBC colleagues out and we would have you sell them things that they

don`t need. 

We`re going to change right now and go into, look at this, the elevator. 

If you recognize this elevator at home, this is from the MSNBC show "YOUR

BUSINESS" that airs on Sunday mornings on this network.  And they do

something called the elevator pitch.  There`s no better person to welcome

to the elevator than JJ Ramberg, the host of "YOUR BUSINESS."

JJ, how are you?


Katie -- 

FRANCIS:  Nice to meet you.

RAMBERG:  Nice to meet you, too.  It`s fun to see you here. 

KORNACKI:  JJ is the host of the preeminent business show on all of

television, an expert on all things small business.  So, you`re going to

try to sell her the book "Small Business for Dummies."

FRANCIS:  Well, I saw online that you`ve done several articles for

"Entrepreneur."  I wanted to start out by saying I love that magazine and I

actually subscribe and I`ve once been interviewed.  So, my goal is to sell

20,000 of these books by 2020.  And 20 percent will go to Make-A-Wish

Foundation and Compassion International. 

RAMBERG:  So, you did a good job because you went right into something I

care so bad about, which is socially responsible business.  If you did

research on me, you know that I`m kind of a sucker for anybody that gives

back.  So, I`m going to buy this book. 

KORNACKI:  Wow, she made a sale. 

RAMBERG:  I do not need this book, but I`m going to buy it for you. 

KORNACKI:  She is one for one.

So, JJ, thank you for joining us on the elevator. 

RAMBERG:  Thank you.

KORNACKI:  Nice to see you.

And now, please welcome to the elevator, our MSNBC colleague, Colonel Jack

Jacobs, Medal of Honor recipient, military expert. 


KORNACKI:  Welcome.  This is Katie. 

JACOBS:  Pleased to meet you.

KORNACKI:  This is an Army man, this is West Point through and through. 

So, you`ve got to sell him something he doesn`t want or need.  He doesn`t

want season tickets to the navy football team.  Try to sell him that. 

FRANCIS:  Well -- 

JACOBS:  Good luck. 

FRANCIS:  I know that you might not want these, but what they would is a

really good gift to someone from the Navy who can`t afford to go. 

JACOBS:  You`re appealing to my better nature, and you`re assuming I have a

better nature.  But I`m Army, you know?  I don`t have very much interest in

the Navy except insofar as they can use their planes to attack -- ships to

attack my enemy.  No, Navy tickets? 

KORNACKI:  Can I give you a suggestion?  Here is what I would suggest. 

Navy has been a little better than Army recently.


KORNACKI:  That means the value has gone up considerably.  So, if you buy

these at a discount rate for her right now.  You could turn around --

JACOBS:  I might be interested -- I`m a businessman and I might be

interested in doing that.  I -- there is a possibility I might be able to

scalp -- I mean I might be able to send them off to other people.  You got

it, 10 percent discount, you got yourself a deal. 

KORNACKI:  She`s two for two. 

Colonel jack, thank you very much. 

Welcome to the elevator, Ronan Farrow. 

How are you?

RONAN FARROW, MSNBC:  Always a pleasure.  A real pleasure to meet you.  You

are quite the entrepreneur. 

I know nothing about selling things.  Tell me.  Teach me your voodoo. 

KORNACKI:  What does Ronan Farrow not need? 

FARROW:  I`m dreading this. 

KORNACKI:  A copy of his mother`s autobiography, Mia Farrow`s "What Falls

Away", and yet, Katie is going to sell it to you and get you to buy it.

FARROW:  I know the story, though.  This is the problem.  So, you`re in for


KORNACKI:  Well, let`s see what she can do.

FARROW:  There`s a great plot twist where I`m born.  Jury is out how that

worked out. 

FRANCIS:  Well, you can never have too many.  It can be one for office, one

for home.  You can always regift it.  Plus I`m making a donation for 20

percent of my sales going to Compassion International and Make-A-Wish

Foundation.  I just wanted to say I really admire all your work with that

kind of thing. 

FARROW:  Thank you, Katie.  The flattery really works on me because I`m a

narcissist, Steve, so that works for me. 

How much is this fabulous item that you`ve pitched so effectively? 

FRANCIS:  $5.00. 

FARROW:  I`ll do it for two. 

FRANCIS:  Awesome, thank you so much. 

FARROW:  Thank you so much.  What a lovely item. 

KORNACKI:  You can handle the business transaction off the set.

FRANCIS:  You are going to do great things young lady.  Great to meet you. 

KORNACKI:  All right, Katie Francis, well, you went three for three right


Katie Francis, it was so fun to meet you.  Thank you for playing along. 

You`re a very impressive sales woman. 


KORNACKI:  I had to make a confession to you as well, that book wasn`t

actually Mia Farrow`s.  We couldn`t find a copy, so we printed out a cover

of it and taped it onto another book and sold it to Ronan anyway.  So, she

really was a good sales girl. 

Anyway, thanks to Katie Francis for sharing her sales skills with us here

in MSNBC.  You can learn more about the organization and what they do at  And thank you to our friends over at "YOUR BUSINESS" for

letting us take a ride in their big industrial size elevator.  You can

catch "YOUR BUSINESS" tomorrow and every Sunday morning at 7:30 Eastern.  I

watch it every Sunday right before I come up here and do this show. 

Only two weeks after the Supreme Court handed down its decision on same-sex

marriage, more history is going to be made this afternoon at the home of

the king of rock and roll.  Graceland will be hosting its first same-sex

wedding.  The couple which has been together for 15 years will get married

at the chapel at Graceland which has hosted hundreds of weddings over the

years, but not until the state of Tennessee recognized same-sex marriage

could they hold a same-sex ceremony.  That`s happening today. 

Up next on the show, another group of precocious kids was at the White

House yesterday playing chefs for the first family with some creative

culinary concoctions.  A lot of C`s there.  We`ll give you a taste after

the break.  




you know that although I can`t stay to eat right, but I`ve looked over the

menu, and the food looks outstanding.  I`m particularly impressed with the

Barack-omoli.  So, I`m expecting people to save me a little sampling of the



KORNACKI:  So, f you were watching the show, I got the word wrong.  I said

Barack-omoli.  It was Barack-omoli, who knew?

That was President Obama addressing the Fourth Annual Kids State Dinner,

which was held yesterday at the White House.  The event brought together 54

8- to 12-year-old chefs.  All winners of the healthy lunch time challenge. 

They shared original recipes like quinoa-crusted spinach, tofu pie, and

asparagus pie. 

What a great event.  I have to be honest --

IZADI:  Would you eat any of that? 

KORNACKI:  What a terrible menu. 

IZADI:  Not your favorite? 

KORNACKI:  Come on.  Put some chips, put some subs, put some pizza,

lasagna.  Barack-aroni, I`ve called it? 

BALL:  The most sophisticated palate.

In my experience, in my limited experience with you, you don`t maybe have

the most sophisticated palate.  You would do well to try some of these


KORNACKI:  I have tried them and they`re disgusting.  I just try -- 


KORNACKI:  No insult to the kids.  I`m sure they made delicious quinoa.

BALL:  The real question if there were peas in the Barack-omoli. 

IZADI:  Yes, would you eat it?

KORNACKI:  Yes, I would eat it.

BALL:  Inquiring minds want to know. 

KORNACKI:  Trick question, I wouldn`t eat it either way. 


KORNACKI:  Let`s see what else.  This is the "Catching Up" segment.  What

else is in the headlines making news that we can talk about with the panel. 

How about this?  This is from "The Associated Press", the U.S. women`s

soccer team joins Taylor Swift on stage at a concert.  This is fresh off

the ticker tape parade that was held her in New York City yesterday.  I

know Krystal Ball was at that parade.

BALL:  I did.

KORNACKI:  The World Cup winners joined the pop star on stage last night at

MetLife Stadium.  That`s the Meadowlands for her hit song "Style."  The

team brought their trophy.  They let Swift hold it on stage, seeing some of

the pictures.

Krystal -- 

BALL:  Oh, man, that is so cool.

KORNACKI:  What was the parade like yesterday? 

BALL:  Oh, it was unbelievable.  So, I was actually at city hall where the

parade ended after they marched through the Canyon of Heroines.  And people

got there at 9:00 a.m., the ceremony didn`t start until 1:00 p.m.  And the

whole time, hour after hour, the energy was just amazing.

They had a female deejay playing these female empowerment anthems including

Taylor Swift.  Everybody was dancing and getting down, all these little

girls decked out in their patriotic garb.  It was just an amazing

atmosphere, this very girl power patriotic party, a lot of fun. 

KORNACKI:  "Politico" tells us Ted Cruz is feuding with "The New York

Times" and loving it.  "The New York Times," of course, this is the news

yesterday, refusing to put Cruz`s memoir, "Time for Truth" on its

bestseller list because it says sales were mostly strategic bulk purchases. 

Now, Cruz`s publisher, Harper Collins said they found no evidence of bulk

orders.  The Cruz spokesman responding, "We call `The Times`, release your

so-called `evidence`.  Demonstrate your charge isn`t a naked fabrication

designed to cover up your own partisan agenda."

Well, I predict that even if it wasn`t actually selling that well before,

this book is going to sell like crazy with conservatives now. 

IZADI:  "The Times" gave Ted Cruz a big present right there. 

BALL:  Absolutely. 

HAYWORTH:  An alignment of incentives. 


KORNACKI:  So, if it wasn`t on this week`s list, I think we can probably

look for the Ted Cruz book on next week`s.  Do we have any time here? 

One quick one here.  NBC sports, a 108-year-old woman is going to be

throwing out the first pitch at tonight`s Seattle Mariners game.  Evelyn

Jones, the oldest person ever to throw out the ceremonial first pitch --

congratulations to you, Evelyn.  That is amazing.  That`s my favorite story

of the day. 

We`ve got to end it on that.  My thanks to our panel, Elahe Izadi, Nan

Hayworth, Krystal Ball.  Thank you all for being here.

And thank you for getting UP with us today.  Join us tomorrow, Sunday

morning, 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time.  I`ll have U.S. Senator Chris Murphy from

Connecticut on the very latest on the Iran negotiations, including gun

reform be back on the table after the Charleston massacre. 

But before that, you`re going to want to watch Melissa Harris-Perry.  She

is coming up next.

Have a great Saturday.




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