Skip navigation

The Ed Show for Thursday, July 16th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

  Most Popular
Most viewed

Date: July 16, 2015
Guest: Clint Van Zandt, Steve Cohen

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Following a shooting spree in Chattanooga,
Tennessee earlier today. A senior federal official has confirmed to NBC
News the suspect has been identified as Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. He is
believed to be a naturalized U.S. citizen from the Middle East.

The attack started late this morning at a Navy Recruiting Center. The
spree ended nearly six miles away at the separate Naval Reserve Center. At
the second location four marines were killed and official say the gunman
was shot. The incident is being treated as an act of domestic terror.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re conducting this as I act of domestic terrorism.
The FBI is now in charge of this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will treat this as a terrorism investigation until
it can be determined that it was not. We are looking at every possible
avenue whether it was terrorism, whether it was domestic, international or
whether it was a simple criminal act.


SCHULTZ: And Chattanooga Mayor Andy Berke reacted to the news just a short
time ago.


ANDY BERKE, MAYOR OF CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE: It is incomprehensible to see
what happened and the way that individuals who proudly serve our country
were treated. Two different location as individual went to. And as a
city, we will respond to this with every available resource that we have.


SCHULTZ: The United State Marine Corps release a statement saying the
names of these marines will be released upon the notification next of kin.

For more let me bring in the mayor or Chattanooga, Tennessee Andy Berke.
Mr. Berke, unfortunately were speaking under these terms tonight, a
horrific situation in your city. What can you tell us if anything about
the shooter? Was he a resident of Chattanooga?

BERKE: Well, there`s really not much that I can talk about with regard to
him. We know that he did go to two different locations in our community.
Both of them were military base. One was Recruitment Center. One was the
Naval Reserve Center. He engaged people at both locations and this was
certainly a horrific, awful, very directed attack.

SCHULTZ: Where there any witnesses to the shooting that can tell us what

BERKE: There were a number of witnesses to the shooting and our officers
the technical police department and as well as sheriff`s officers from
Hamilton County engage him extremely quickly coming from all corners of our
city. Between the time that he left the Recruitment Center and the time
that he got to the Naval Reserve Center. And so, basically at that point -
- from that point forward our officers were engaging this criminal and
responded I think valiantly and barely.

SCHULTZ: Can you tell us where the suspect was shot, was it at the second
facility close to it or was he fleeing the scene. What do you know about

BERKE: His dead occurred at the second facility. We had numerous officers
there. As I said, you know, I spend the last several hours talking to the
officers who where on the scene. They came from the court house, they came
from other parts of the city, they came from everywhere and their tails are
harrowing about, you know, hearing these bullets flying, engaging the
person who was really determine to do harm.

SCHULTZ: When the shooter got on the scene at the second location. Where
law enforcement officials there to meet him or did they show up right after
the shooting and then engage him?

BERKE: They engage them before he even got to the second location.

SCHULTZ: So, there was an anticipation that where he was going to the next
military facility?

BERKE: That they were -- on their way. He was -- they were engaging him
as he went to the second facility to stop him and essentially -- despite
all that he kept going.

SCHULTZ: OK. Mayor Andy Berke, I know that this is a terrible time for
you and your folks there in Chattanooga, Tennessee and all throughout the
state the in the region and country. It just horrific another shooting
taking place and did you know happen to know any of these marines that lost
their lives today, you know, the small town or small towns. I know
Chattanooga`s not a small town, but there something about a culture of a
town. Somebody always knows somebody. Could you tell us, give us any
inside at all?

BERKE: Well, we haven`t confirmed who it was, who died as result of this.
I tell you that I did go to the hospital. I did talk to one of the marines
who had been shot. We had a city police officer who was shot as well while
engaging with the criminal. Spoke to them, you know, this is a town that
has a history with the military. We are the volunteer state and, you know,
our hearts are breaking for the families tonight.

SCHULTZ: I can imagine. Mayor Andy Berke, mayor of Chattanooga,
Tennessee. I appreciate your time tonight on the Ed Show and on MSNBC.

I want to turn now to Clint Van Zandt former FBI Profiler, also with us
tonight Steve Clemons MSNBC Contributor and Editor at Large the Atlantic.
Gentlemen thanks for joining us tonight.

The targets very clear what the shooter was up to because there were two
locations of the same nature. Clint Van Zandt, what do you make of that?

CLINT VAN ZANDT, FMR. FBI PROFILER: Well, I think this was preplanned Ed,
realized that this shooter were told obviously, you know, we know his name.
We were told by sources that he`s from Kuwait originally. And that he had
lived in the Phoenix area realize the phoenix area is where the shooter in
Garland, Texas came from earlier this year. And a similar type of Tweet
was released at the time of that shooting in Garland. And a similar Tweet
was released just prior or at the time of this incident.

So, it appears to be perhaps some tie end in that area and some tie end
with individuals who may have had the similar types of motive to attack
these facilities. In this case what ISIS perhaps has been saying for
months now that Americans and soldiers and police should be attack right
here in America that may well proved to be a possible motive as authorities
look at this individuals this afternoon and tonight.

SCHULTZ: Steve, does this look like a terrorist act to you? I mean, it`s
pretty easy to come to the conclusion considering the target U.S. military

STEVE CLEMONS, THE ATLANTIC: Well, we were on the front end of this and I
think it must be said that were speculating right now about a lot things.
But it does have the feel of a terrorist incident. It has the feel of
someone who targeted the kinds of installation that ISIS and other terror
groups have requested their followers to target in western countries. And
it has the feel of someone who went out to create a lot of harm and what
was a suicidal mission and end up suicidal mission.

I think that the big issue that we don`t know, we haven`t seen ISIS itself
take credit for this as of yet. And we haven`t had a report from American
intelligence authorities on whether there was chatter that was specific
enough to make it look whether this individual was animated directly or
whether this was one of these scary self-radicalized lone wolves who may
been collecting with others as Clint just said. But we just don`t know
those dimension of that yet.

But it is scary enough even if this individual is self-radicalized and a
lone wolf going and targeting the kinds of people. It did make everyone
around the country get jitters because this could happen on any street
corner in America.

SCHULTZ: So Steve, what is this do to military recruiting facilities
across the country. These offices are very common place in cities all
throughout the country. This is how the military functions and connects
with recruits and replenishes the force and keep us strong. I mean, what
happens now?

CLEMONS: I mean to be quite honest. What it does is it gives terrorism
part of what1 it wants. It wants America to freeze up, to be fearful, to
harden sites like this, to make them less welcoming. I mean, part of the
whole notion behind military recruitment is these are pathways for young
men and women to come in and identify with serving the nation and various
ways across the military services and to create a welcoming and my
environment for that.

I think there`s no doubt that if this does proof to be a case of serious
domestic terror. We`re going to see a hardening of these sites, we`re
going to see walls go up and we`re going to see a distancing and a fear of
the public to a certain degree. Systemically through the system and that`s
exactly paying off terrorism. And we need to understand that the balance
that were talking about between security in this country and living lives -
- in our lives in a normal way even at military recruitment centers.

SCHULTZ: Clint Van Zandt, considering what the targets were in the loss of
life of four United States marines. Does this take investigators into
places that maybe they wouldn`t go?

ZANDT: Well, it`s going to take us a lot of places based upon the
individual`s potential ties to overseas Ed. This is not only going to
involve the police and the FBI. CIA and other intelligence agencies will
be contributing to the investigation as they try to create this wiring
diagram base on this shooter is a background. As, you know, in cases like
this they`ll look at his cellphones, they look at his computers, they look
at his writing, they look at his family, friends, employment, his travel
history and that`s going to take agencies outside of the United States.
And of course Ed, it specially brings at home when it`s members of the

You know, you have to imagine some if not all of these marines who were
killed probably served toward overseas in combat zones. They come home,
they think they`re safe, they turn their weapons in and they get gun down
at Recruiting Facility.

And Ed, the whole purpose these facilities is to put them out in shopping
areas and other public areas where people can come, hear about the military
perhaps consider joining. The last thing I think America wants to do now
is to store banker rising recruitment facilities. And again as your other
guess suggest that exactly what ISIS would like to see is do. So we have
to counter that whatever cost we pay.

SCHULTZ: All right. Clint Van Zandt, Steve Clemons, great to have you
with tonight. I appreciate your expertise on this.

ZANDT: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Thanks for joining us.

We`ll have more on this story later in the show. But first President Obama
makes history as his first seating president to visit a federal prison.
We`ll tell you why he was there.

Stay tuned. We`re right back on the Ed Show.


SCHULTZ: And if you want more the Ed Show. You can follow me on Facebook
and watch my Facebook feature "Give me a minute". You can also get my
video Podcast at

Coming up, big news on President Obama`s push to reform the criminal
justice system. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson joins me with reaction and he`s
personal story.

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
President Obama made history today as he became the first seating United
States President to visit a federal prison. The President visit the El
Reno Correctional Institution outside Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

When the President arrived in Oklahoma he was greeted with Confederate flag
protest. President Obama`s visit is part of he`s push to reform the
criminal justice system. He met with the warden, prison staff and
nonviolent offenders. During the President visit the president. He
highlighted some disturbing facts about prisons.


for 5 percent of the world`s population, we account for 25 percent of the
world`s inmates. And that represents a huge surge since 1980.

There are people who need to be in prison, and I don`t have tolerance for
violent criminals. Many of them may have made mistakes, but we need to
keep our communities safe. On the other hand, when we`re looking at
nonviolent offenders, most of them growing up in environments in which the
drug traffic is common, where many of their family members may have been
involved in the drug trade, we have to reconsider whether 20-year, 30-year,
life sentences for nonviolent crimes is the best way for us to solve these


SCHULTZ: The President has a list of reforms that is actually getting
support from some Republicans. The President wants to reduce sentences for
non-violent offenders and make it easier for former convicts to re-enter
society. There are plans to reform prison life by easing overcrowding,
cracking down on prison assaults and reducing the use of solitary

Today he`s visits comes after President Obama commuted the sentence, a 46
nonviolent offenders on Monday, 14 of them were serving life sentences.

For more let`s bring in Michael Eric Dyson an MSNBC Political Analyst and
Professor at Georgetown University. And I know that this story is -- this
whole effort to reform prison life and situation and the statistics in this
country is very near and dear to your family Michael. If you can tell us
your story and what it means to you and where we have to go in this

opportunity. I literally just came back this morning from visiting my
brother five and half hours outside of Detroit in a prison where he`s been
incarcerated for 26 years and, you know, at the attempt to extract him from
that prison and to get him out. And he`s paid he`s debt to society for
crime that we believe he`s innocent of, there`s very questionable charge
but he was convicted and therefore he`s, you know, done this time.

And it extremely difficult to go into these prisons as I do often and to
see the conditions of maximum security prison for President Obama did not
visit a maximum security today. But there are very similar -- but even
more intense in terms of the solitary confinement, in terms of the
overcrowding, in terms f the prison on prison injury. These things are
quite powerful and I think it`s powerful and right that the President
focuses a light on this issue.

Those of us who have to deal with this, who have to travel hours and hours
to visit our family members, to see the poor condition they`ve live in
there, still human beings. Yes, many of them have made mistakes and as
President Obama said "Those who were the most violent and who have been
showed to be certainly must be lockup. But those who have life ahead of
them and who have paid their debt deserve their day not only in court but
in society.

And I think reentry programs are quite critical and ex-offender programs
are quite critical. And it has impacted African-American and Latino
communities especially hard.

SCHULTZ: Well, and there`s also an effort to privatize many prisons across
this country.

DYSON: Lot of money Ed, a lot of money.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Who knows where that would go as far conditions are

DYSON: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: Michael, what has to be done first? What are just some of the
first steps that could be done that would turn thing around and prison life
to make it more humane?

DYSON: Well, in prison themselves obviously returning some kind of
educational component. You will be surprised Ed, how many prisons use to
offer the possibility of getting a GED, or going on to get college course
credit. A lot of that stuff has been distorted (ph) and removed. So we
have to restore the incentive for these men and women to become educated.
Secondly, we have to provide them outlets of creativity that encourages
them to do something other than learn how to become a criminal. The
unfortunate reality is that these are not about -- these places are not
penitentiaries where rehabilitation is focused on. People are learning the
craft of crime and then thirdly, if we can figure out a way to be more
humane the solitary confinement is horrible.

Figure out ways -- when President Obama said prison rape is not a joke, he
is talking about the unsafe conditions for prisoners. They are -- if we
can do something to stem the tide of just a physical assault...


DYSON: ... upon those prisoners, those three things would make a

SCHULTZ: Michael, do you think that our political system, people running
for office, who want to be tough on crime...

DYSON: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... have brought us to these outrageous sentences that nonviolent
offenders get.

DYSON: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: And we haven`t been able to win the drug war on this country. So
sentencing has become somewhat of a political football, someone is tough on
crime if they are for a longer sentence.

DYSON: True.

SCHULTZ: What can be done there? Now the President is trying to deal with
this and maybe he`ll get some Republican help on this and would probably
one of the last things he does in office. I don`t know how much more is
going to be able to get done.

DYSON: Sure.

SCHULTZ: But the sentencing, where would you start there?

DYSON: Well look, the mandatory minimums have got to go. If you don`t
give a judge the opportunity to weigh in and say, look that`s far too long
for a nonviolent drug offense where no one was hurt except the person him
or herself then don`t impose mandatory 15 to life upon a person especially
if it`s their third crime.

You see where President Clinton has said that he inadvertently and perhaps
even more directly led to the exacerbation of the mass incarceration state
were living in no, because when you got these mandatory minimums the crack
cocaine epidemics in the 80s led us to a kind of paranoia. So we`ve got to
change about on that.


DYSON: And then secondly, your point though, very quickly about it`s not
everybody who gets taken into consideration as a drug dealer or drug
offender. Those who are in the suburbs doing meth don`t get the kind of
sentences that those who are in the Ghetto during crack cocaine or other
forms of powder cocaine.

Powder cocaine people were up in suits don`t get the same kind of, you
know, criminal detention and therefore, incarceration as those who are in
the streets. So when we got to look at the ratio and the class dimensions
of this, then we began to see that these prisons are built in rural wide
communities where the local economy depends upon the work that the prison
brings, the privatization of incarceration has made it a booming business
but it`s on the backs of black and brown people. And I think Michelle
Alexander in her Brilliant book, The New Jim Crow writes about this
powerfully and I`m glad the president has taken it up.

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson, good to have you with us tonight.

DYSON: Thank you Sir.

SCHULTZ: All the best to you and your family in dealing with this.

DYSON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: We are expecting President Obama to deliver a statement on
today`s shooting in Tennessee from the Oval Office. We`ll bring it to you
when it happens live here on MSNBC.

Coming up, the latest on shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee and the suspect
that officials confirm is a naturalized U.S. citizen from Kuwait.

And later, we`re following the money trial. The Rapid Response panel
weighs in on a big money being raised for the 2016 race.

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back. We`re expecting a statement from President
Obama on today`s shooting at any moment from the Oval Office. We are
continuing to monitor the situation out of Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Officials say that four United States marines and the suspected gunman are
dead after a shooting spree in Chattanooga.

A senior federal official confirmed to NBC News the suspect was identified
as Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. The official also confirmed he is a
naturalized U.S. citizen from Kuwait.

The incident began at a Navy Recruiting Center and ended six miles away at
a different Naval Reserve Center. This attack has being treated as an act
of domestic terror.

For more, let me bring in Tennessee Congressman Steve Cohen. He joins us
tonight by phone also with us this evening Colonel Jack Jacobs, he is Medal
of Honor Recipient and MSNBC Military Analyst.

Colonel, you first if I may.

This just underscores how our military always has to be on watch. What`s
your reaction to today`s shooting and what is unfolded the loss of life of
four great Americans?

COL. JACK JACOBS, MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT: Well, it`s quite striking. We
have very few people actually serving. Most Americans don`t even know
somebody in uniform and yet these people were part of the community. They
lived in the community. They operated out of a store front in a strip mall
so anybody could come in. They were part of that community and the
National Guard and the Reserve the say way. They don`t have the same kind
of security that they would have in a normal large scale military
installation indeed the recruiting office in the strip mall had none

These people are not armed. They are there to serve the United States and
to serve the community and I`m not surprise of the incredible shock in a
small -- relatively small community of Chattanooga at this terrible
business. But it keeps in mind this thing and that is that we can`t secure
everywhere all the time. That as vigilant as we are. We`re not going to
be able to save, keep everybody safe all the time but we do have to remind

I do think that there`s a great deal to be stay positively about the
reaction of the Chattanooga police department and other first responders
who put a stop to this before it could have been even worst but, you know,
it points out the fact that we`re all a community and we`re exposed.

SCHULTZ: We`re just a few moments away from getting response from
President Obama in the Oval Office but Congressman, I want your reaction to
what is unfolding on this horrible day in Chattanooga.

REP. STEVE COHEN, (D) TENNESSEE: Well, it is indeed a horrible day and it
appears to be an attack on our nation and there was attack on the military
installations, military personnel. And it`s interesting to note that just
on May 8 of 2015, it was confirmed that these U.S. Military bases are on
force protection bravo defined by the Pentagon as an increase in
predictable threat of terrorism, third highest level on a five layer tier
scale used by Department of Defense.

ISIL have encouraged people to take actions against United States, military
installation and against, I think police in fire another first responders.
It`s difficult to protect all of those areas but I think this is a call
that we need to have some better security at our military recruiting bases.
There was an attack on Little Rock, Arkansas four or five years ago to
(inaudible) somewhere stay at this (ph).

SCHULTZ: All right, Congressman, we`re going to go to President Obama
right now just moments ago.

OBAMA: ... about the tragic shooting that took place in Chattanooga today.
We don`t know yet all the details. We know that what appears to be a lone
gunman carried out these attacks. We`ve identified a name. And at this
point, a full investigation is taking place. The FBI will be in the lead,
working closely with local law enforcement.
We`ve also been in contact with the Department of Defense to make sure that
all our defense facilities are properly attentive and vigilant as we sort
through exactly what happened. And as details to the investigation
proceed, we`ll make sure that the FBI, as well as local law enforcement are
providing the public with all the information that`s involved.
My main message right now is, obviously, the deepest sympathies of the
American people to the four marines that have been killed. It is a
heartbreaking circumstance for these individuals who have served our
country with great valor to be killed in this fashion.
And although the families are still in the process of being contacted, I
want them to know that I speak for the American people in expressing our
deepest condolences, and knowing that they have our full support as they
try to overcome the grief that`s involved here.
I also want to say that there are reports of injuries to Chattanooga local
law enforcement officials. Thankfully, as far as we know at this point,
they have survived the assault. And we want to make sure that they know
that we`re thinking of them. They`re in our thoughts and prayers.
You know, we take all shootings very seriously. Obviously, when you have
an attack on a U.S. military facility, then we have to make sure that we
have all the information necessary to make an assessment in terms of how
this attack took place, and what further precautions we can take in the
future. And as we have more information, we`ll let the public know.
But in the meantime, I`d ask all Americans to pray for the families who are
grief-stricken at this point. And I want everybody to understand that we
will be thorough and prompt in figuring out exactly what happened.
Thank you very much.
SCHULTZ: President Obama just moments ago in the Oval Office speaking to
the media on the horrific situation that are unfolded today down on
Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Joining me again is Tennessee Congressman Steve Cohen who joins us by the
phone and also Colonel Jack Jacobs, Medal of Honor Recipient and MSNCB
Military Analyst.

Colonel, what would be an operational if anything procedure change by the
military after something like this? Would they respond to maybe protecting
these facilities in a different way or operating directly as you`ve said
earlier that they are unarmed?

JACOBS: Well, if you take a look at just the act of duty military
installations, they`re going to going on heightened state of alert.
They`ll inspect all vehicles underneath in the trunk. They`ll do 100
percent I.D. check before people coming on to the post. So they`ll be
tougher again onto military post with respect to these installations.
National Guard and Reserve Installations which are positioned right in the
middle of their communities, they serve in their communities who provide
the guardsmen and the reservists who operate in there.

It`s going to be extremely difficult to do very much more than they`re
already doing. Don`t forget that these are people in the middle of their
communities and they`re from the community and then with respect to the
recruitment stations, they`re extremely difficult to protect and if you
take a look what Ed, the one in Chattanooga was in a strip mall, as you
know, next to it a hair salon, these are retail outlets and there`s no way
that they can possibly be protected.

The military people inside them are not armed. I suppose you could give
them weapons and ammunition but that`s not exactly what those things are
for. At the end of the day...


JACOBS: ... what`s really requires a heightened state of alert among
people in this community so that individuals who like us don`t get
themselves into a position where they can easily conduct this kind of

SCHULTZ: Congressman, I didn`t mean to interrupt you but we had to take
the president there and I appreciate you`re staying with us. It sounds
like this is just a new world we live in. There`s not a whole lot we can
do about this other than trying to protect ourselves. You`re thoughts?

COHEN: Well, I think it is but at the same time I do think those personnel
should have -- should be armed. They should -- they are object -- are
subject that could be attacked and it happened twice now. It happened to
Chattanooga. It happened to Little Rock and it may have happen in other
areas. And I think that the soldiers at those stations should be required
or authorized and I`m sure they would to be armed. That can help. And it
would maybe it help in the situation. I don`t know, you know, what the
situation was and if they had any weapons but I think they should be
weaponized because they are targets and you just can`t be a sitting duck.

It`s really it`s just -- it`s unfortunate where we come. They are the
threats from ISIL on ISIS are great and it does come to our shores not like
they did on 9/11 but its here and we need to be vigilant and we need to be
protected. We should not have soldiers who are out there and sitting

SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee with us tonight and
Colonel Jack Jacobs, thanks so much.

I want to bring in NBC`s Kelly O`Donnell who is at the White House tonight.

Kelly, there were just seemed to be a real error of disbelief from the
President`s voice tonight that is unfolded in such an ugly way. What can
you tell us from the White House tonight?

KELLY O`DONNELL, NBC NEWS, THE WHITE HOUSE: Well, so many times Ed, I have
watched the president return on the South Lawn after an eventful day on the
road today being the first president to visit a federal prison and it was
evident from the moment he stepped off marine 1B sober and serious
expression on his face as he walked alone to the Oval Office.

We were prepare for him to perhaps stop and make a statement with the
gathered media there on the South Lawn but within moments after he went
into the Oval Office we watched him we then moved into briefing room and we
were almost immediately alerted that he would be making a statement. He
was met inside the Oval Office by the FBI Director James Comey. They had a
conversation. He was briefed in addition to what he had been told while on
the road. We were told earlier in a day by White House officials that the
President had been notified and given information.

And the challenge for the White House and for the President in particular
in this moment, wanting to express of course the sympathies and concerns
but not wanting to get ahead of the available facts so the President was
cautious and careful in saying that knowing that this occurred with
targeted marines, four marines who lost their lives in the shooting at two
installations that the Department of Defense would certainly be on alert
that his in communication with them.

But the main message was to let the families know, many families who had
not even yet been notified because of the time it takes for that process to
unfold for the President wanting to weigh in to talk about what the
country`s poster needs to be in a time like this and at the same time
acknowledging the limitation of facts that are available. But the
President when we saw him in that video. That is standard thing that
happens in the White House, they`re not prepared for a live events so the
pool (ph) which his a small group of reporters were assigned each day going
into the Oval Office. They recorded those remarks. Brought them out and
then distributed them to everyone so we could all watch it together.

And to see the president`s mood I think it was evident of the seriousness
and the concern and at the same time his care and being certain to not say
how much we know. He mentioned the fact that a shooter had been
identified. The gunman identified without naming the suspect and talking
about some of the details but I`m sure the president will be getting more
briefings as those become available. But these are the early stages and
sometimes facts do change. He also of course acknowledged the local law
enforcement that suffered injuries today as well and he expressed gratitude
that they seemed to be doing well though the office are there who is
wounded in the leg I believe.

But certainly a somber tone for the President on what otherwise was
supposed to be a very important day for his message and wanting to change
the criminal justice system and to have some reforms that might further
some goals of having people be better able to rehabilitate what maybe an
instance of domestic terror that has to be determined will certainly
clouding that day. Ed.

SCHULTZ: All right, Kelly O`Donnell at the White House tonight. Thanks so
much for that report.

More on the shootings in Tennessee next here on the Ed Show. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In our continuing coverage of the shooting in Chattanooga,
Tennessee today that left four United States Americans dead and the
shooter. And we have now gotten the first picture of the suspected gunman,
Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. Officials confirmed he is naturalized United
States citizen from Kuwait.

I am join again tonight by Colonel Jack Jacobs, Medal of Honor Recipient,
MSNBC Political Analyst, a Military Analyst, and also Jim Cavanaugh, MSNBC
contributor, and Jim Cavanaugh also law enforcement analyst.

Jim, your thoughts, there`s going to be a lot of people that are going to
jump to conclusions because of the name and ethnicity of the shooter. Your
thoughts on that.

that`s a great point Ed. I mean, people shouldn`t, you know, jump to
conclusion. And look, Kuwait generally our friend or ally, and we have
many friends in Kuwait. So, you know, is this a radicalized person, you
know, don`t jump to that conclusion just because of his name.

The commanders won`t do that. They`re going to be looking for the
evidence. You know, when you where in the command post on this, you`re
going to say, "OK, here`s a lead category. This man is naturalized, he
comes from Kuwait. The targets were military facilities. This is a major
lead category. Can we uncover evidence that is the motive?" So they`re
going to look for the facts to see.

But there`s no question that our marines gave their lives today. Whatever
the motive and it gave it looks like because they were marines. You know,
that`s tragic for the Marine Corp. I hope every house can get marine flag
and fly it.

SCHULTZ: And Jim, gives us insight on the investigation. Two military
facilities, recruiting facilities, clearly this was planned. Where does
that take investigators?

CAVANAUGH: We used fought on it. But, you know, when I was the agent-in-
charge here in Tennessee, I was on this exact during terrorism task force
executive committees with FBI, the state troopers and the TBI. And I know
all these guys.

And what happens, they go down there. There`s a command post set-up in
Chattanooga already. And the commanders has special agent in charges, the
chief of police. The military commanders are going to have NCIS in there.
You`re going to have your confident (ph) from the various facilities.
You`re going to be brief in working and helping. They`re going to serve
search warrants on to subject`s house and get his computers and phones and
material. They`re going to interview neighbors and so fort so that they
already know the motive. We don`t know what they know there. But they
already know some of that.

And since he`s deceased Ed, and they clearly said they don`t think he acted
alone today on scene. They have uncovered any known conspirators.


CAVANAUGH: They may have put some more information out early that, you
know, would help everybody understand what happen.

SCHULTZ: OK. Colonel Jack Jacobs, you heard moments ago on this program,
Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee saying that he thinks that the
military personnel on these recruiting facilities should be armed and he
said, "They shouldn`t be sitting ducks." What`s your response to that?

JABOBS: Well, I don`t think its good idea, as a general principle. And if
you take a look at this particular situation, in the shopping mall for
example, it would have been absolutely impossible for them to defend
themselves because the shooter came over there with either semi automatic
or a fully automatic weapon at very nearly point blank range firing through
the window through the door, the glass door, right at them and they were
not very far away. It`s impossible to envision a circumstance in which
these guys would have been able to defend themselves no matter how they
were armed.

I`m not a verse to having military people armed. But don`t forget that
these people in the middle of their own communities and have them walking
around armed is probably not a very good idea especially since they`ve got
an entire police sheriff`s department overall walking around armed.

I don`t think that in this circumstance, in particular, these guys would
have been able to defend themselves.

SCHULTZ: All right. Colonel Jack Jacobs and also Jim Cavanaugh stay with

Much more coming up on the shootings that unfolded today in Tennessee that
took the lives of four United States marines and the shooter. Stay with


SCHULTZ: The latest on the shooting at Chattanooga, Tennessee this
afternoon that left four United Sates marines dead will continue.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, at 6:00 Eastern. The verdict will be read at the
Aurora, Colorado, Movie Theater Massacre. The jury has reached the
decision. Shooter James Holmes pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity to
the 2012 shooting that left 12 people dead.

Stay tuned, you`re watching MSNBC. We`re right back.



OBAMA: I`d ask all Americans to pray for the families who are grief
stricken at this point. And I want everybody to understand that we will be
thorough and prompt in figuring out exactly what happened.


SCHULTZ: President Obama moments ago speaking at the White House about the
shootings in Chattanooga, Tennessee earlier today. Suspected gunman
Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez open fire on two military facilities six miles
apart. Federal official has confirmed to NBC News that he is naturalized
U.S. citizen from Kuwait. Four marines and the gunman are dead, three were
injured. It is still unclear whether gunman was killed by police or took
his own life. The U.S. attorney is investigating the massacre as an act of
domestic terror. The incident began at the Military Recruiting Station.

For more, let me bring an MSNBC contributor. Jim Cavanaugh, MSNBC law
enforcement analyst, also with us tonight, Steve Clemons, MSNBC contributor
and Editor at Large at the Atlantic. And Steve, I will oppose the same
point to you as I did Mr. Cavanaugh moments ago. The name and the
ethnicity is going to be carried away I think with a lot of Americans here.
Your thoughts on that and where it goes.

CAVANAUGH: Well, I think it`s important to let the evidence go where the
evidence goes without presupposing why this person did what he did. We
have to sort of look at the broad possibilities that this was a person
inspired by signals from ISIS abroad. It maybe somebody with a different
kind of beef (ph) and time will tell. So it`s always smart to be judicious
in these issues. That said that the bottom line remains that after 9/11 in
2001, we had 10, 11 years. I mean, occasionally you`d have an incident
here and there but al-Qaeda looked at these kinds of incidents as too small
for it. They looked at trophy targets, things that required great
sophisticated organization and they had great ambition on what they were

And so, the notion that you would worry about the Recruiting Station in a
Mall or, you know, some other sites somewhere else. Look like it was crazy
paranoia and unfortunately we have entered into an era. No matter what the
background of this gentleman, where we need to begin thinking in a
different way that what we`re beginning to see is something where ISIS is
animating and in triggering various people, maybe not this guy, but at
least others to take actions and harm people inside the United States and
that is a very worrisome trend.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think a part of the conversation moving forward is, how
do the United States Military Personnel operated these facilities moving
forward? I mean, we have seen in the past in this country where malls have
been a target. And maybe a soldier standing outside armed might be the
answer. I don`t know but we certainly don`t live in the same society we
were living in before 9/11 and a lot has happen since then. Is security an
issue? Mr. Cavanaugh at this point, as you see, does this change anything?

CAVANAUGH: Well, you know, if we`ve had attacks in recruiting stations.
We had Carlos Bledsoe who is a Tennessee resident who went to Little Rock
and killed a soldier at a recruiting station in 2009, he served in life
sentenced. He was radicalized in Yemen.

Yes, they`ve been attacked some places. I think the military is going to
look at that. You can`t take them out of these communities, they`re part
of the citizen soldiers that we have but you could do a little better on
the security. I think the military is going to look at that. Well look,
you could put some bullet proof glass in there or buzzer to get in. There
could be a locker in there that has a couple of shotguns and the handguns
so the soldiers and marines don`t have to a subject to be and just
massacred by a lone gunman. I mean, they could buzz you in and, you know,
the bullet proof protection is pretty transparent, it`s not in anybody`s
base. And soldiers certainly are trained to use weapons, they don`t have
add strap on a 24/7 of the military doesn`t want. But they could be there
in a locker and, you know, accessible.

Now, it`s if an attack by multiple, attack even that kind of security is
not going to be good enough. But that`s not we`re seeing. Generally we`re
seeing one attacker here. You know, we had made Major Hasan in Fort Hood,
one attacker with a pistol. We had Bledsoe in Little Rock. This guy,
whatever his motive, we have one attacker at Garland, Texas we had, you
know, a couple of attackers but so, you know, it could be at, it could be
done better.

SCHULTZ: Jim Cavanaugh and Steve Clemons, thanks for your time tonight
here on the Ed Show. Our continuing coverage is going to be happening here

That is the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton, starts right now. We`ll see you
tomorrow night.


<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>

The Ed Show Section Front
Add The Ed Show headlines to your news reader:

Sponsored links

Resource guide