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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, July 18th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Saturday show

Date: July 18, 2015
Guest: Charles Schumer, Ben Domenech, Susan Page, Jeff Miller, Bob Costa,
Barton Swaim


STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST: A key voice talked to us about Iran. A
mystery in Chattanooga. A wildfire on a California highway. And Donald
Trump. There`s a lot to get to this morning. Let`s get started.

And good morning to you. Thanks for getting up with us this Saturday
morning. A busy Saturday morning. A lot of news, a lot of politics for us
to juggle. We want to begin this hour in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Last
night FBI teams finished removing potential evidence from the home of the
young suspect implicated in the shooting deaths of four marines. The FBI
saying last night that they`ve tracked down 70 leads so far. The
investigation hasn`t yet uncovered any evidence that the shootings were
inspired or directed by ISIS, but they are being investigated as an act of
terrorism. And NBC News has learned that 24-year-old Muhammad Youssuf
Abdulazeez spent much of last year in the Middle East. It`s a trip that
friends and others who knew him say may have radicalized him.

NBC`s Sarah Dallof joins us now from Chattanooga. So, Sarah, what`s the
latest we know in terms of a motive?

know, that is what investigators have been trying to answer. They`ve been
working around the clock to answer a number of troubling questions, but as
you mentioned, most importantly, what prompted this young man to go on the
shooting spree? Now, this is being conducted as a terror investigation,
but so far investigators have uncovered no clues, no manifestos, no videos,
no social media posts that would indicate that he was inspired or directed
by ISIS to commit this rampage. They are looking as you`ve mentioned
closely and as Mideast travel last year from April to November, he was in
the Mideast, we know he visited Jordan where his father is from. But
authorities want to know if he visited anywhere else. Especially countries
like Yemen.

As for the attack, a law enforcement source says he was armed with three
guns. An AK 47 style assault rifle, a 12-gauga shotgun. And a 9-
milimmeter pistol. He was wearing a load-bearing vest that allowed him to
carry additional ammunition. According to the FBI it was the Chattanooga
police who actually put an end to the rampage by shooting and killing him.
Several officers being praised in the last 24 hours after the police chief
revealed that they risked their own lives to drag a wounded colleague to
safety. That officer, we`re told, continues to recover. He is in good
spirits although still in a fair amount of pain after being shot in the
leg. And navy sailor critically injured, fighting for his life as well,
Steve, as investigators work to answer the question as to why the community
still comes to together united in grief and in shock. Back to you.

KORNACKI: All right, Sara Dallof on the ground in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Thank you for that.

Meanwhile, on the world stage, Iran`s top leader were saying this morning
that the historic nuclear deal reached earlier this week will not change
Iran`s policy toward the United States adding that Iran`s negotiations with
the Obama administration were limited to the nuclear issue and that there
can`t be any dialogue with Washington over any other subject. It will be
interesting to see how those comments might affect President Obama`s
ability to sell that deal back here at home. And the clock right now, it
is ticking on that front. In the next 60 days, or at this point now 56
days, it`s been four days since the deal was announced, so 56 days Congress
has to vote on whether to give its approval to the deal.

With nearly every Republican so far indicating opposition to the deal, and
there is also a potential for dissent among Democrats, Democrat Chuck
Schumer from New York emerging as the key vote on all of this. The New
York senator is close to Hillary Clinton. She supports the deal. He`s
been close to the Obama administration of course. But he is also torn
between progressive constituents who like taking a diplomatic approach to
the Iranian issue and may of Jewish leaders who believe the deal makes
Israel less safe. Yesterday, I actually had the chance to sit down with
Senator Schumer in his first extensive televised interview on the subject
to talk about what he says is one of the toughest decisions of his career.


KORNACKI: You are all over the news this week because there is -- the
nuclear deal with Iran and everybody is looking at this. It`s now going to


KORNACKI: And in Congress gets a say on it. Everybody saying, look, the
lynchpin on this is Chuck Schumer. Which way is he going to go? So, you
put out a statement the other day, you said, are you going to review this
very carefully, you`re going to talk to everybody.

SCHUMER: That`s what I`m doing.

KORNACKI: Let me just start with this. Have you read the deal at this

SCHUMER: Not yet. I have been so busy this week in Washington. We had
the education bill on the floor. And there was an attempt to dramatically
cut funding from New York and the other northeastern state, send it to the
south and west. It took a lot of time. We beat it back. Now, New York is
held harmless and we don`t lose funds. And we have the highway bill. You
know, we`ll run out of highway funding come July 31st. So, finding a way
to fund it in a bipartisan way, has to have democrat, republican support.
Has to pass the House in Senate. So, I`ve been so busy. I`ve resolved
that this weekend I`m going to get in my little chair that I`ve had in my
house for 32 years here in Brooklyn and read it, read it thoroughly and
quietly and then what I`ll do is I`ll talk to people. I`ll talk to the

I`m sure we`ll have a lot of questions and concerns on both sides of the
issue. And the one thing I`m going to do is -- this is what I`ve learned
through the years. My 41 years as an elected official. Is on important
things, just do the right thing. Now, you know, no one has a monopoly on
what the right thing is, but do what you think the right thing is. So, I`m
going to spend a lot of time thinking about it, learning about it, and I`ll
just do the right thing. And I`m not going to let party or pressure or
anything else. What`s good for America first and foremost and what`s good
for Israel which of course I care a lot about.

KORNACKI: And it`s -- the reason all eyes are on you, is because
politically just sort of you`re pulled in two very powerful directions
here. And I saw on the one hand -- let me ask you from this standpoint.
This president, your party`s president, a guy you have been very close to
Barack Obama. This is like the signature thing he`s pushing for in his
second term. He is seeing legacy here. Could you see a scenario where you
go against him?

SCHUMER: I`m not going to comment until I read the document. That`s
what`s going to guide me. But look, when I think the President is wrong, I
go against him. I just voted against the trade bill and TPA because I
thought it hurt middle class incomes. President talked to me regularly on
this issue, but I told him. Unless it changes, even if it helps corporate
profits, I`m not going to be for it if it decreases middle class incomes
and I think it does. So, there are times when I`ve broken with the
President before when I really think that I have a different point of view
and the right thing is not what he is doing. So, I`m just going to wait to
read the document. I`m not going to comment on whether I will, whether I
won`t, maybe yes, maybe no. None of it is helpful right now.

KORNACKI: I understand. Maybe I need to tell you, one more angle.
Because I`m curious about this as well. Because you mentioned too you are
a very sort of staunch defender of Israel, advocate for Israel.


KORNACKI: And not only is Benjamin Netanyahu very outspoken against this,
the Prime Minister of Israel but the leader of the opposition also is
against this. You have basically the democrat and republican in Israel are
against this.

SCHUMER: Yes. But there are --

KORNACKI: Could you be pro-Israel and still be --

SCHUMER: There are all kinds, many people, many different places have many
different opinions. I`ve got to read it, listen to them but make up my own

KORNACKI: But let me just, final question on this. You`ve been in public
office, you know, 40 years now, basically. When you look at the stakes in
this issue, the sort of the consequences of the decision you have to make
on this, where does this one rank in terms of tough decisions?

SCHUMER: High up. Tough decision. High up. But I`ve had them before.
Goes with the territory. You know, that`s why you`re paid the big bucks,
they say. And you know, the importance of it is very, very real to me.
I`m going to read it, you know, go over it with a fine-toothed comb, going
to talk to people on all sides, of course, in the administration. And
then, because it`s such an important decision I`m going to weigh it really


SCHUMER: That`s all I can say.


KORNACKI: Senator Chuck Schumer from New York, the key player right now in
whether President Obama`s nuclear deal with Iran will win approval from
Congress. You can catch the entire interview we had with Chuck Schumer as
he weighs in on President Obama`s legacy, the 2016 field. We asked him
where he would live if he couldn`t live in New York. He actually gave us a
very interesting answer to that question too. You can see that entire
interview right here tomorrow morning starting at 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

But for right now, let me bring in this morning`s panel. We have with us,
MSNBC contributor Jonathan Capehart, he`s a columnist with "The Washington
Post." Ben Domenech, publisher of the Federalist and a senior fellow at
Heartland Institute. And Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief at "USA

So, let`s talk about the politics of the Iran deal. So, Susan, I`m curious
you`re listening to Chuck Schumer right there. I mean, the significance of
Schumer and his role in this obviously as we expect Republicans basically
to be against this. The question is, are there major defections on the
democratic side for President Obama and Chuck Schumer could go a long way
toward determining that.

SUSAN PAGE, USA TODAY: That`s right. And I`m sure there will be
defections on the democratic side. Because we see that already, that some
Democrats are against the Iran deal in part because of concerns about what
it would mean for Israel. But remember, the bar for President Obama is
really low on this. The bar is just 34 senators have to stick with him, in
case there is a veto, which we think there is every possibility there will
be of the resolution`s approval. He just needs 34 votes to keep the
override from going through. And I think it is very likely he gets that.
Now, the problem for the President would be that is not a really showing of
strength for something that is such a landmark deal, but it is enough to
get it through. And the President already has said, if I need to veto it,
I will.

KORNACKI: And that is the issue. The immediate issue, I guess, Jonathan
is Republicans control the House, Republicans control the Senate. So,
there are some expectations that the way this works, it`s a resolution as
Susan says of disapproval. That got through the House, that got through
the Senate, Obama vetoes it. And then you need the two-thirds of majority
to override that. That`s how Congress could actually kill this deal. But
if it even gets to that point where both houses of Congress pass the
resolutions of disapproval, what does that mean?

JONATHAN CAPEHART, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, it means the deal is
probably in trouble. But that`s why you see what we`re going to see is an
enormous battle. I mean, it`s already started. You have got sort of the
liberal, Jewish group Jay Street already on the air with ads trying to push
members of Congress to support the deal. It obviously supports the deal.
You have the same thing coming from the opposite end with APAC, all focused
on picking off enough House members and Senate -- members of the Senate to
get to -- chip away from the 34 that Susan was talking about. So, if it
gets to that point -- look, we`ve been through these near-death experiences
with President Obama many times. So, I think, if we get to that point it`s
not going to be that big a deal. But if he can`t hang on to those 34 votes
as Susan said, it will be extremely damaging. I mean, I can`t -- that`s
not even sort of describing accurately how damaging it would be.

KORNACKI: Ben, I`m curious how you look at this deal.

BEN DOMENECH, THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE: Well, I think from my perspective
this is a deal that`s likely to limp through. It`s likely to get the kind
of support as Susan indicated, in order to sustain it. However, I think
that the only thing that could possibly prevent that is the reaction that
we`re already seeing from other people around the globe to this deal,
particularly Saudi Arabia. Already out today talking about the need now to
become closer with Russia, with Beijing, in order to basically say, look,
we tried this with our relationship with the U.S. We have to shore up
those relationships. And already saying that they were going to redouble
their efforts in Yemen and Syria because they feel like, essentially, once
this deal goes through, Iran will be able to have access to all sorts of
new funds in order to back up the forces that they support there. And so,
I think it`s only kind of news outside of the American domestic scene that
could prevent this deal from going through and increase the clamor to a
point where you didn`t have those kinds of votes. I do think it will limp

KORNACKI: Is there a scenario you can see it all where Republicans --
there`s actually significant Republicans where a measurable republican
support for the deal or is that now --

DOMENECH: Absolutely not. I just don`t think that there is any -- the
real force and motivation from the republican side is one that basically
points to certain aspects of this deal as just being not good enough, not
meeting. Frankly, from my perspective, the president`s own lines back in
2013 about what he wanted from this deal -- which actually from my
perspective sounded like a pretty good deal back in 2013. I think the
republican attitude, even for a lot of the moderates in the party is
essentially this is just not good enough that we can sell it to our base.

PAGE: And you know, this is how politics have changed so much since the
Reagan era. Which is I remember when President Reagan was negotiating with
Gorbachev. And Republicans, his own Republicans were very nervous about
this. They didn`t say, they didn`t trust Gorbachev. They didn`t think
this was a good deal for America, but he got democratic support. You have
a situation where it is very hard for the President to count on support
from the opposition party. Because the parties are more polarized
ideologically and also, there`s just less sentiment even on a foreign
policy issue to cooperate with the other side.

KORNACKI: And what about, I mean, specifically, you look at Chuck Schumer,
Jonathan. I mean, this is -- he is going to be the next democratic leader
in the U.S. Senate. If it`s a good year for Democrats in the 2016. This
is the next majority leader in the U.S. and he has been so close to the
Obama administration, you know, on so much for the last six and a half
years. And here it is. This is what the Obama administration sees as its
signature push of the second term, is to get this deal, that promise he
made in the 2008 campaign about sort of opening up the world. This is such
a big part of that. And here is Chuck Schumer. Where on the one hand he`s
being pulled in that direction. And on the other hand, this is Chuck
Schumer who said, you know, he is one of the most stalwart defenders of
Israel on Capitol Hill. And basically there is unanimity, in Israel, the
politicians political leaders in Israel saying, this is a bad deal.

CAPEHART: Well, as Senator Schumer said in your interview with him which
is a great get, by the way. The timing worked out just fine for you! Is
that he says he is going to do the right thing. He`s going to do the right
thing for the country. He`s going to do the right thing for his
constituents. And I think what you`re going to see is, Senator Schumer
having all of his phone calls returned, any member of the administration
wants to come by and sit next to him in that chair of his that he`s had for
34 years and go over line by line with him whatever questions he has about
the deal, they`ll do that. And he`ll get the same thing from the other
side. He is so pivotal. And I don`t know if that came through in the
interview. He is the one guy the White House has to count on. Because if
he goes against this deal, that 34 you`re talking about --

PAGE: Let me be a cynic. Chuck Schumer could be against the deal, come
out against the deal, but not in a way that sabotages the deal. I mean,
that is the way to treat the --

KORNACKI: That`s right. There is a difference between being against it
and really being against it, right.

CAPEHART: How does he do that? I mean --

PAGE: Because he -- so he comes out and he says like I have to be against
this deal but he doesn`t do it in a way that makes the deal seem completely
unacceptable and he doesn`t twist arms to get below those 34 votes.

CAPEHART: But with all the scaredy-cat votes on Capitol Hill. Someone
like Chuck Schumer who, I mean, staunch defender of Israel, leader in the
Senate. If he even winks and says, I`m not so hot on this deal, doesn`t
that give anybody -- it sends a chill --

KORNACKI: Susan, that struck a chord with me. I think and I am wondering
if that is where we`re heading here. There`s the difference between
getting up on a Senate floor and saying, this is Neville Chamberlain all
over again. Versus getting up and saying, you know, what? I`ve looked at
it. I get the administration`s point. I can`t quite get there. I`m going
to vote, no. There is a difference in tone there.

DOMENECH: But there`s a difference in television of this tug of war that
he has between what he views on his sort of perspective on foreign policy
priorities and domestic policy priorities of not wanting to undermine his
own precedent. I think that this is a situation where Chuck Schumer is a
very smart guy. He has been around for a long time. He`s very
experienced. If he wanted to kill this, I think he absolutely could, but I
think that you`re right, Susan. I think it may very well turn out to be
something along the lines of --

KORNACKI: As he told us, he`s in his reading chair in Brooklyn this
weekend reading over the documents. So, we`ll see when he announces that,
we`ll see what he has to say. Still ahead, do you remember this classic TV
ad from the 1980s?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Need to make the doughnuts. Dunkin` donuts are always
fresh. We make them at least twice every day.


KORNACKI: That was Dunkin Donuts iconic Fred the Baker. The fictional
character that got up at the crack of dawn -- fictional character? I
thought he was real all these years.

Anyway, coming up. We talk to the man who actually has that job, the best
job in America. He is here.

But first, the morning after, little transition you to -- awkward
transition. Stranded motorists had to flee on foot as a wildfire engulfed
a southern California interstate. That is next as well. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: This morning in Southern California, firefighters are trying to
get a new wildfire under control. Last night in a scene that looked right
out of a Hollywood movie cars and trucks were engulfed in flames in the
middle of a major interstate. Motorists making a break for it on foot in
order to escape all the smoke and flames. All of this happening north and
east of Los Angeles. That`s something called the Cajon Pass. California
highway patrol reporting up to 70 cars abandoned on the highway. But
amazingly, everyone escaped with no major injuries.

NBC`s Gadi Schwartz is live for us in Southern California near the freeway
where crews have been working overnight to contain this fire and get the
highway moving once again. Gadi, how are they doing on that front?

GADI SCHWARTZ, NBC4 REPORTER: All the interstate is moving behind me.
This is a very important interstate all the way from Los Angeles to Las
Vegas. But for a moment, just imagine that feeling that you get when
you`re stuck in traffic. You have nowhere to go. You`re frustrated. And
then imagine looking off to the right and seeing a wall of flames barreling
straight at you. That`s exactly what happened here. And people got out of
their cars and ran for their lives.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Traffic is at a stand-still.

SCHWARTZ (voice-over): There was nowhere to drive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband just said, get your stuff and go!

SCHWARTZ: No time to wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cars burning. Power lines popping.

SCHWARTZ: And as the raging wildfire hit traffic gridlock. But there`s
just nowhere to go. Packed with drivers on the main road from L.A. to Las

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were people crying, kids crying. People don`t
want to leave their babies or their cars.

SCHWARTZ: But all people could do was grab their families and head to
safety. Parents pushing strollers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s literally cars going up.

SCHWARTZ: Away from a stretch of I-15 where one by one cars, trucks and
tractor-trailers were going up in flames. For over an hour those who ran
huddled near fire trucks for protection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there goes 1,000 gallons of water.

SCHWARTZ: As helicopters and air tankers trying to put out the flames.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A big wall of flames on both sides of this fire.

SCHWARTZ: Meanwhile winds continued to push the fire farther into
neighboring communities, burning structures and forcing evacuations. And
as the fire on the freeway died down, families were escorted back to see
what was left. Rows of burnt-out cars and trailers, and even a boat. The
site surreal for those out for an early weekend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to the beach. The next minute, Armageddon.

SCHWARTZ: And stranger still for people from out of town, caught my slow
California traffic and a wildfire that moved too fast.


SCHWARTZ: Now, we have seen crews make a lot of progress on this
particular fire tonight. Back to you, Steve.

KORNACKI: All right. Gadi Schwartz out there in California. Thank you
for that report. An amazing scenes yesterday watching that happen live on
television during rush hour in Southern California.

Still ahead on the show today, what happens when you put all five Democrats
running for president in the same room at the same time? For the first
time, the answer on what they said. That`s ahead.

But first, one week after the confederate flag came down, South Carolina
struggles with the question of whether it should have. Live report is
next. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: At this hour law enforcement officials in South Carolina are
preparing for a Ku Klux Klan rally outside of the state house there later
this afternoon. The white supremacist group saying, they`re expecting
hundreds of people to protest last week`s removal of the confederate battle
flag from capitol grounds.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It broke all of our hearts that they made the
decision. The government instead of being for the people and what the
people want, they take it upon themselves to make the decision for us.


KORNACKI: That`s South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley is urging people to
steer clear of the hate group`s demonstrations saying, quote, "Our family
hopes the people of South Carolina will join us in staying away from the
disruptive, hateful spectacle members of the Ku Klux Klan hope to create
over the weekend and instead focus on what brings us together." Another
group, the black educators for justice is holding a counter-protest today
also outside the state house. That group is run by the former director of
the Black Panther Party.

And joining me now from Colombia, South Carolina, MSNBC`s Adam Reiss. So,
Adam obviously, an eventful few weeks in South Carolina. The flag coming
down a week ago. But the controversy is not quite over yet.

ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all. They`re expected around
3:00. Protesting the flag`s removal and also protesting the fact that they
say the government is trying to take away their confederate history, their
white heritage, even their culture. Now, they haven`t been here since
1988, some 27 years ago. We expect them this afternoon around 3:00. Heavy
police presence here. The Southern Poverty Law Center says, there were
about four million in 1925. Today only about 4,000. They`re a group, they
say, weak, divided and poorly led. Around noon, we expect another group,
black educators for justice. We expect the two groups to be separated,
maybe about an hour overlap -- Steven.

KORNACKI: All right. Adam Reiss in Columbia, South Carolina. Obviously,
we`ll be keeping a close eye on what happens there today.

In the meantime, as we serve up a mixture of developing news and politics
on this show over the weekend, we also serve -- you have probably noticed
this -- lots of donuts. It`s our pastry plate with everything from Boston
cream, the rainbow sprinkles. Our guests is sometimes indulge on the air
and certainly after the show is over, we always have a feast with the
pastry plate that you see on our desk every week. So, we thought that this
morning that we`d take some time to talk about -- to talk to the man behind
these tasty treats. This is maybe the luckiest person in the world, he is
the chef who creates and who tastes doughnuts for a living.

Dunkin` Donuts executive Chef Jeff Miller. He is in our studio today. He
has set up shop in a corner. Jeff, it is so exciting to talk to you. I
love doughnuts. That`s why we have them here every week here. And your
job is to basically to come up with the flavors, to come up with the types
of doughnuts, Boston cream, and chocolate sprinkle. Double chocolate. All
of this. How did you ever get a job like that?

luckiest guy in the world. I think people imagine our kitchens at Dunkin`
Donuts like Willie Wonka`s chocolate factory. And I have to say, there is
no better job than coming in everyday and tasting doughnuts.

KORNACKI: So, let me ask you this. So, you guys -- your job is a sort of
tinker around, and hey, what if we threw, you know, peanut butter and
marshmallow -- I`m just giving you ideas here. I don`t know but --

MILLER: I`m going to write that down. I`m going to write that down.

KORNACKI: Let me ask you this. What is the worst idea for a donut flavor
you`ve ever gotten?

MILLER: You know, I think that`s everyone`s favorite question. And I
think what we`re tasked with doing as chefs is creating those great tastes
so that we don`t have any of those mishaps in the kitchen. So, it`s not
like we`re making a broccoli and cheddar doughnut for moms to, you know,
have for their kids. And we`re really focused on great doughnuts like the
Boston cream.

KORNACKI: Boston cream is obviously one of my favorites. There is always
this like a health movement now in this country. Healthy eating. With
farm to table. Is that the --


KORNACKI: Does anybody asked you to do like kale or trendy health foods to
incorporate those somehow?

MILLER: You know, I don`t think I would put kale on a doughnut. Because I
think doughnuts are about happiness, right?


KORNACKI: I love kale in the right way. But I think, you know, I think we
focus on great-tasting sweet treats. You kind of treat yourself that way
with donuts. And what is the key to making a great donut?

MILLER: Oh, I mean, I think it`s really just the care that our franchisees
and our decorators put in every day to decorate them and make them look
great in our back cases in our restaurants.

KORNACKI: Well, that`s a safe answer. I was hoping to hear a little of
that company secrets -- well, anyway, you`re going to be sticking with us
throughout the show today.

MILLER: That`s right.

KORNACKI: So, you`re going to be over there working up a special design I
guess for an UP donut. We`ll unveil that later in the show. And
throughout the show, we`re going to be checking in with you for some of the
stories behind your favorite donut flavor. So, thank you. We`ll be
checking in with you.

Actually right now we are going to go back to Chattanooga, Tennessee. NBC
Sarah Dallof joins us from there. Sarah, what`s the latest?

DALLOF: Well, some sad news to report this morning here, Steve, that Navy
Petty Officer Randall Smith, the Associated Press is reporting that he has
passed away. He has died from his injuries sustained in that shooting.
Now, we know a little bit about him. He was in his mid-20s. He`s been
shot several times, we were told from the beginning. He was very
critically injured. Was fighting for his life and it now appears he has
succumbed to those injuries and has passed away. This is the fifth victim
now of the shooting, four marines were killed.

Two other people who were wounded. One has already been treated in relief.
The other expected to make a full recovery. But this fifth person that was
injured, Navy Petty Officer Randall Smith, shot several times. We`re told
has passed away, Steve. Very sad news to report here this morning.
Another blow to this community already dealing with so much shock and so
much grief as investigators continued to work around the clock to
determine the motive for the shooting, why this gunman targeted armed
forces after others who knew him describe him as just a normal guy. What
happened? What changed it? Did his overseas travel have anything to do
with it? Was this possibly inspired by ISIS? A lot of questions remaining
in the investigation. But the sad news that a fifth victim, Petty Officer
Randall Smith, has passed away this morning. Back to you.

KORNACKI: Indeed, Sarah. That`s a very tragic news. Thank you for that
report. So, as Sarah says now, the count is up to five. Five fatalities
from that shooting in Chattanooga earlier this week. We`ll be right back
after this.



economics and politics in America today, no president, not the best, can
bring about the changes we need in this country unless there is a political



KORNACKI: Bernie Sanders last night in Iowa calling for a political
revolution. All five democratic candidates for president under the same
roof for the first time this campaign season last night in Cedar Rapids
where the Iowa Democrats held their hall of fame dinner. It was unclear
going in whether the candidates would go after each other at the event so
early in the cycle. Or focus instead on their republican counterparts.
Let`s listen to what Clinton had to say last night.


Republicans rip away the progress we have made! Trickle-down economics has
to be one of the worst ideas of the 1980s.


It is right up there with New Coke, shoulder pads and big hair. We`re not
going back to denying climate change. If you ask most of these republican
candidates about that, they`ll say, sorry, I`m not a scientist. Well, then
why don`t they start listening to those who are scientists? Look, I am not
a scientist either. I am just a grandmother with two eyes and a brain, and
I`m not going to let them take us backwards.


KORNACKI: All right! Let`s talk about that with our panel. Hillary first
of all. What do you make of that speech last night, Susan?

PAGE: So, she didn`t mention her opponents who were sitting around. And I
guess that`s not a surprise she hasn`t yet. But here is what struck me
when I read the coverage in the Des Moines register this morning. Jennifer
Jacobs who has been on your show was covering this last night. Big
demonstrations outside of young people for O`Malley and for Clinton. She
went after the Clinton supporters. Protesters for Clinton. And they were
told they were not -- they were told they were not allowed to speak to a
reporter. Now, why in the world would the campaign tell their own
supporters who came out the campaign in favor of Hillary Clinton --

KORNACKI: These are people outside holding signs.

PAGE: These are the young people, college kids, I`m for Hillary. And
they`ve been told they can`t talk to a reporter. Why in the world would
you do that? Because this has raised some warning flags for the Hillary
Clinton campaign that is trying to control their supporters.

DOMENECH: Narrative, narrative, narrative, narrative.

KORNACKI: Nothing that those supporters could possibly say to the press is
worse than the story of telling them not to talk.

CAPEHART: Yes. I mean, you have young people -- what you would want in
the Des Moines register is like, Suzy Smith, 17, can`t wait to vote for
Hillary Clinton. Quote, I love her! She is fantastic!

KORNACKI: Yes. I used to cover elections in Jersey City. And I remember,
Jersey City is where they pay you 50 bucks a day in cash to go out and hold
a sign on the street somewhere. If they were instructed never to talk to
the press, that`s how you knew they were paid the 50 bucks. I don`t think
that`s going on out there.

DOMENECH: I just think it`s crazy that you know, you have an opportunity
to have someone who is on the younger side of the age spectrum saying
something nice about Hillary Clinton and you tell them to shut up? I mean,
that`s a campaign that is just -- they`re so focused on the control of the
narrative over and over and over again. They don`t want to break away from
it in any sense, or if anybody breaks away -- and that`s a problem.

PAGE: I mean, now, when you look at the Bernie Sanders campaign. Now, I
don`t think Bernie Sanders is going to be the nominee but he does have the
kind of campaign that people are enthusiastic about and has a lot of
energy. I interviewed him right after he`d won that Wisconsin straw poll.
And he told me they had not been aware that there was going to be Wisconsin
straw poll until a reporter called and said, hey, you won the Wisconsin --
I guess he didn`t win it but did surprisingly well.

KORNACKI: It was 49-41. It was like McCarthy versus LBJ close enough.

PAGE: A reporter I think called him and said, hey, you did really well in
the Wisconsin straw poll. And they said, well, there was a Wisconsin straw
poll. That`s a kind of campaign that, you know, that has some momentum and
it was kind of fun to be part of.

KORNACKI: Well, you know, I have stayed up and watched that speech last
night. He introduced his own college student group, he brought them in
last night because he won`t highlight the issue of student debt, of college
student debt and saying, together they`ve accumulated more than a million
dollars in debt. These are people who haven`t even began to live their
adult lives yet. And they have already settled with all this kind of debt.
But the energy around Sanders -- so we`ve talked about this a little bit
before. But Iowa, this is a state Clinton has had her problems out there
before. A lot of activists, caucus. You know, this is a state that could
be friendly to Sanders. New Hampshire could be friendly to Sanders.
There`s a few -- Wisconsin was when you look on the map. There are few
others. The question with Sanders, though, is can he get bigger than sort
of this predictable liberal enclaves.

CAPEHART: You know, I don`t know. I mean, that`s one of my many questions
for Senator Sanders. Because I feel like I`ve seen this movie before. We
saw it with Governor Dean. I love Governor Dean. And remember, around
this time when he was running he was high up in the polls. Everyone said
he was on his way to being the nominee. He had the energy of the young
people, he had the enthusiasm until people actually went out and voted.
And so, I`m wondering if, one, Senator Sanders has the staying power to get
through Iowa. And two, let`s say he wins Iowa and New Hampshire. Does he
make the Clinton 2008 mistake and not have any plan for what comes after

KORNACKI: That`s the other thing also, just sort of the nature, the
demographics change a lot after Iowa and New Hampshire too. Another thing
to mention there right now, there`s Iowa last night, this hall of fame
dinner. Net roots, progressive activists, grass roots. Our meeting in
Arizona this weekend. All of the candidates on the democratic side out
there speaking except Hillary Clinton. Not speaking at net roots. Is that
a mistake?

DOMENECH: I think that the thing that`s interesting that`s playing out in
the Democratic Party right now, is you do have this passion for candidates
who are honest progressives, who are straightforward about their views and
who are very authentic when it comes to their interactions with the
progressive base. And I think that that really expresses the kind of
frustration a lot of people have with Hillary Clinton, with the Clinton
machine. This is someone who has been backed by Wall Street and by Goldman
Sachs and all of these people who -- frankly Elizabeth Warren and a lot of
other people have been saying, don`t trust them, they`re not looking out
for you. And I think that this is sort of a situation where you might end
up having someone who gets enough momentum to make a mark but not enough
momentum to really disrupt this Clinton machine.

KORNACKI: You know, it`s interesting. Because you look at the challenge
any democrat like Bernie Sanders, for instance, faces in running against
Hillary Clinton. On the one hand it`s an almost a hopeless task trying to
beat the biggest favorite you`ve ever seen on a major party nominating
process. At the same time, there is no better contrast for Bernie Sanders
in terms of what he represents, in terms of his message of political
revolution. He is running against a former first lady, a former secretary
of state. Someone who has been close to -- all these markers of sort of
power and influence in the establishment. All of these things that Bernie
Sanders defines himself against politically he gets to run against. So, in
a way the sort of the hopelessness of the task sort of elevates his image
in a way. Because this is the campaign he was born to run I kind of think.
You know?

DOMENECH: Has he even been to Davos? I mean, like --


By comparison. This is as big of a comparison as you can get. And
frankly, I mean, if I was a young progressive, I would look at Bernie
Sanders and I would say, this is someone who actually understands my
priorities, cares about them, cares about these issues. And I`m just not
sure that when I look at Hillary, she is just reading off a script
depending on which crowd she`s infront off.

KORNACKI: All right. Still ahead. What may be the toughest question to
answer about Donald Trump or any of the candidates running for president?
We`ll going to tackle that ahead.


KORNACKI: All right. There`s a lot going on this morning. Let`s get
caught up on some of the other headlines making news with today`s panel.

Let`s start with the Chicago Tribune. The headline Bush, Walker, Trump.
Allow guns in military recruiting offices. So, this is the response you`re
starting to hear from republican presidential candidates to the tragedy in
Chattanooga. Three republican candidates yesterday calling for an end to
the ban on service members carrying guns in military recruiting offices.
This has obviously become an issue now as we reported earlier. There are
five fatalities in Chattanooga. What do you make of it, Jonathan?

CAPEHART: Every time a tragedy like this happens, the response is give the
people in the targeted place a gun, whether it`s a middle school, whether
it`s a movie theater. The answer is always, give -- give folks guns. And
that doesn`t -- that doesn`t solve the problem, doesn`t make it any easier.
And I think it sort of diminishes the tragedy that the folks in Tennessee
are dealing with or the folks in Aurora, Colorado or the folks in
Charleston, South Carolina. I mean, I wish we could have a real
conversation, a real debate about these gun tragedies.

DOMENECH: Well, I feel like, you know, obviously we disagree about this
issue generally. But I would just say, I think in this case, my initial
reaction -- the initial reaction I heard from more than one journalist was
sort of, I was surprised. Are they the only people in Tennessee who don`t
have guns?


DOMENECH: And I think from my perspective it`s just, you know, the
equivalent of saying, soft targets are appealing to terrorists for a
reason. You would like to have fewer soft targets. A general sort of
sense that there is going to be more of a presence there of security
whenever they`re looking at a mall, whenever they`re looking at a school,
or something like that. What`s the best way to achieve that, what`s the
best way to make them think twice about doing something like this? I`m not
sure that, you know, Bush, Walker or Trump are necessarily coming on to
that solution here but they are responding I think to a general push for
people to protect these sort of targets especially in the domestic

KORNACKI: Those republican candidates, not Bush but Walker, Trump, a few
others that we should point out too, also going to be in Iowa today. The
family leadership summit taking place in Ames, Iowa, one of those cattle
calls this on the republican side out there. So, that`s where you can see
them today. Another headline, this from "The New York Times," U.S. sought
El Chapo extradition before escapes. The United States made the
extradition request less than three weeks before the drug kingpin, I am
going to put this in quotes here, escaped from prison.


Mexican authorities have yet to accept an American offer to help track El
Chapo down. I mean, every detail we find out about this thing, I mean,
they might as well just open the door to this prison and said, please, sir,
go ahead.

CAPEHART: Escorted out and driven away or whatever. This thing makes what
happened in Upstate New York just seem like child`s play.

KORNACKI: That was a real escape. Say what you want about those guys.
That was a real escape.

CAPEHART: Would you like help with your bags, Mr. Chapo?


PAGE: It`s like they`re making ads for the Trump campaign. Right? The
Mexican government because the corruption seems so apparent.

KORNACKI: There was a cartoon this week, I saw there was El Chapo
burrowing under the ground out of the prison and it was leading right to
the Trump headquarters.


Let`s see what else we have here. This is from the "New York Post."
Obama`s Waldorf snub sparks hotel bidding war. So, the President of the
United States, he`s in New York City this weekend. But this is the first
time in decades -- this is a tradition for a U.S. president to stay at the
Waldorf Astoria Hotel here in New York City. Actually UP guests I believe
stay at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel.

PAGE: Not me!

KORNACKI: I think we give you dorms at NYU.


PAGE: Chinese ownership is the reason where --


KORNACKI: Right. So this is the story that the hotel has been sold off to
a Chinese company. There are fears of, you know, how secure is the
building be for sensitive government officials being in there. So, no more
Waldorf story for --

PAGE: Well, the Waldorf is still the place for the U.S. ambassador to the
United Nations lives.

DOMENECH: There`s an apartment there.

PAGE: Yes, still there.

DOMENECH: Quite fabulous.

CAPEHART: Well, you know, I guess the President is like, wait, so you hack
our computers and now you want me to pay you for a room? No way!

KORNACKI: Well, Mr. President, if you need some housing suggestions for
the night, let us know. You know. Air B&B, Craigslist. I got an
apartment down the hall for me. Air B&B. New people every week. They are
always European tourists. Different ones every week. It`s definitely
going to be Air B&B place, but maybe we could get you in there too Mr.
President if you want.

Let`s see what else we have here. This is from the Daily Mail. Headline.
Great Scott. Michael J. Fox. Christopher Lloyd, Lea Thompson reunite for
backs of the futures, 30th anniversary. The cast of the classic film
reuniting this weekend at the London film and comic-con. This to me is
basically a depressing story. Because think about this for a second. 1985
is the year of back to the future. Right? And I can actually remember
when that came out it was like the coolest thing in the world. The movie
was set in 1955, that was 30 years. Watching that, you`re like this is
ancient history. This is like watching Abraham Lincoln or something. It`s
now been the same amount of time since that movie, 2015 to 1985 is 1985 to
1955. I don`t mean to depress everybody so early in the morning but I got
nothing else.


CAPEHART: That`s okay. Is there any rum for this? I`m so sad!

KORNACKI: Rum-flavored donut. That can be your suggestion.

All right. Still ahead, why President Obama is comparing himself to
Richard Nixon.

And coming up, breaking news also this morning out of Chattanooga,
Tennessee, all of the latest developments on the ground there coming up.


KORNACKI: All right. We`re still waiting for Dunkin` Donuts executive
Chef Jeff Miller to reveal the new doughnut that he is creating just for
our show. That`s coming up a little bit later. We also might try our
hands at this, me and the panel. See how good we are at making donuts.

But for now, we are going to turn back to Jeff. We`ll going to check in
with him a little bit during the show over here at the UP headquarters
donut center I guess we`re calling this. And Jeff, tell us about some of
your favorite donuts that you make. I guess, to get the Boston cream right
there. What`s the story with that one?

MILLER: Yes. This is an absolute classic. Right? It`s one of Dunkin`
Donuts top-selling donuts. It`s got a classic cream filling, chocolate on
top and I think my favorite part is, it goes great with coffee. So,
whether you like it hot or iced, it`s a great way --

KORNACKI: Isn`t every doughnut supposed to go great with coffee?

MILLER: Yes. You can dip that, one of them in coffee. Absolutely.

KORNACKI: But let me ask you this. The thing in Iowa, the Boston cream
probably would be my favorite donut if I had to rank them. But I`ve always
wonder, how tough is it to get the goo in the donut?

MILLER: We prefer to call it filling.


KORNACKI: I knew there was a better word.

MILLER: Yes. We have a machine where you basically put the donut up to
it, you press your hand against it, it fills the exact amount in there.
And that`s it. It takes a little practice, though, so you get it all
distributed throughout the donut.

KORNACKI: I have to see if they sell those in my local grocery store.
Anyway, you got quite a set up here. We`ll going to be checking in with
you throughout the show and again, see that grand unveiling of the donut
later on. Looking forward to that. Another full hour of this morning`s
developing stories, the week in politics. The very latest on the tragedy
in Chattanooga. All of that is ahead. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: A fifth person dies as a result of the Chattanooga shootings.

All right. Thanks for staying with us. Lots to get to this hour. The
latest on that California wildfire that engulfed an interstate yesterday.
The new voices speaking out about the Iran deal. And the reveal of our
special flavored UP WITH STEVE KORNACKI donut, that`s later on. But we`re
going to begin the hour in Chattanooga, Tennessee, where now a fifth person
has died as a result of injuries suffered in Thursday`s shooting.

NBC`s Sarah Dallof joins us now with the latest from Chattanooga. Sarah.

DALLOF: Well, good morning, Steve. The U.S. Navy confirms that the navy
sailor identified by friends and family as Petty Officer Randall Smith
succumbed to his injuries overnight. He passed away just after 2:00 a.m.

Now, Smith was reportedly in his mid-20s. He was hit several times in the
shooting on Thursday. He becomes the fifth fatality of this rampage, four
marines were also killed.

This is just a heartbreaking news to this already grief-stricken community
who continues to come out this morning to leave flags and flowers at the
base of this growing memorial outside the site of the first shooting scene.

Now, investigators continue to work around the clock. They`re delving
there the background of the suspect in this case. They`re trying to find
any clues as to a motive. They are doing this as a terror investigation,
but they say so far, they have uncovered nothing, no videos, no social
media postings or manifestos to indicate he was influenced or directed by

They have - we`ve also learned more about the weapons he used in this case.
He had three guns according to a law enforcement source, an AK-47-style
assault rifle, .12-gauge shot gun and .9-millimeter pistol. He was wearing
a load-bearing vest to allow him to carry additional ammunition.

The FBI says it was gunfire from the Chattanooga police department who
stopped him, putting an end to the rampage. But this investigation
continues. A lot of people in the community as well as law enforcement,
Steve, today waking up once again to ask why.

Back to you.

KORNACKI: All right. NBC`s Sarah Dallof in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Thanks for joining us.

And in some respects, the suspect appears to represent the intelligence
community`s worst nightmare, someone unknown to the FBI planning an attack
all on their own, virtually impossible to prevent. Federal agencies may
not have been looking at Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez as a terror threat
before the rampage but they`re investigating the shootings as an act of
terrorism now.

Joining us now is MSNBC military analyst and medal of honor recipients,
retired Army Colonel Jack Jacobs.

So, Colonel, as we say, this is -- it`s everybody`s nightmare. It`s scary
enough when you`re talking about some international organization that`s
coordinating these things, planning these things. At least there, there is
a chance to go in and disrupt it somehow. To listen in or whatever it
takes to stop it, but when you`re talking about this lone wolf, somebody
maybe on the Internet, maybe sees something, so much of it is taking place
in their head.

How do we as a country formulate a strategy to deal with that?

COL. JACK JACOBS, MSNBC MILITARY ANALYST: Well, with great difficulty. I
mean, you can`t really have an overall strategy with an enemy that`s
fragmented like this. It`s really hard to find out and head off any
attacks before they happen. And what you need is really good intelligence.
And the only way to get that is to overcome the objection to scrutiny of
people`s cell phones, email accounts and so forth. And that`s not going to
happen anytime soon.

So, it requires good intelligence, very, very hard to come by.

KORNACKI: Is there -- when you look at -- there is this report of a trip
he took, maybe a year or so ago over to the Middle East. And now, the FBI
is investigating whether that had something to do with his radicalization,
just finding out here whether this was inspired, in the sense that he just
-- it was something internal versus there was some actual coordination
overseas. That`s a pretty big difference.

JACOBS: It is a big difference, and I think in this case, we`re going to
find it was just inspired. ISIS has been exhorting people to do exactly
this for sometime and this isn`t the first time somebody responded to it by
doing this sort of thing. So, it goes back to what you originally said.
This is your worst intelligence nightmare, something that comes out of the
blue -- homegrown threat that`s not coordinated by somebody outside, or
even inside. It`s just inspired by outside.

And there was evidently nothing to indicate that the guy had any indication
to do this before he went overseas. He was gone for seven months, went to
Jordan. We don`t know where he was after that. It will be interesting to
find out where he was while he was overseas.

What is also interesting is to find the trail on the weapon. Now, these
kinds of weapons are not difficult to get. There are a lot of them around
and so on. Evidently nobody knew that he had this weapon. Where did he
get the weapon? When did he get it? And so on.

KORNACKI: Also, the fact that this plays out in Chattanooga, so much of
our concerns about terrorism since 9/11, it`s the major obvious targets,
New York, or Washington, or L.A. or something like that, a major airport.

But when this starts playing out in a Chattanooga, Tennessee, for instance,
it suggests maybe people in places that weren`t expecting this sort of
thing have to be on higher guard now.

JACOBS: Well, everybody does. Of course, there has been a lot of talk
about what we should do about the military people who are in installations
like this, National Guard and reserve installations, what do we do about
defending recruitment stations. We have one right down here, what, a
couple blocks away in Times Square, small recruitment station, non-
commissioned officers to recruit people, in the middle of Times Square
where there are thousands and thousands of tourists all the time.

How do you secure those?

I think the decisions that are going to have to be made about physical
security are going to be made on a case-by-case basis. Should people
inside these facilities have weapons? Should they be loaded?

Probably in some cases yes. In other places they are not going to be able
to do it. If you arm them, you better train them so they can operate in
that kind of urban environment. Police get this training. Military
recruiters do not. We`re going to change the way we train military
recruiters, which is a sad state of affairs.

KORNACKI: Colonel Jack Jacobs, thank you for taking the time this morning.

JACOBS: You`re very welcome.

KORNACKI: Appreciate that.

In reaching President Obama`s nuclear deal with Iran, Secretary of State
John Kerry joined the record books, spending more time on a single
negotiation than any U.S. secretary of state in more than three decades.
His most recent trip to Vienna lasting nearly three whole weeks. And now,
the Obama administration is set to spend possibly even more time trying to
convince Congress not to kill this deal.

For more on that, NBC`s Kristen Welker joins us now from the front lawn of
the White House.

So, Kristen, a new round of diplomacy here of the White House. They`ve got
to keep their own party from revolting on them on this issue.

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS: That`s absolutely right. This is the next big
battle on the Iran deal, Steve.

White House officials know realistically they`ll probably not get the deal
approved by Congress as you pointed out.

The goal is really to try to get a veto-proof number of lawmakers on board.
That`s going to require a lot of Democrats. Having said that, look, Steve,
this is really important for the president politically. He does want
robust support from lawmakers to try to present a united front to the
international community.

So, just looking forward, I think you`re going to see a full court press
from the White House. President Obama, top officials here are going to try
to build up that support.

And we saw the strategy start to emerge this week. You had Vice President
Joe Biden meeting with lawmakers on Capitol Hill. President Obama held the
memorable press conference that lasted for more than an hour. And you`ll
recall he actually asked for more questions once his list of reporters had
run out.

And then, of course, his weekly address which we saw today, not
surprisingly also focuses on the Iran deal. And the central argument that
the administration is making is that this deal ultimately makes the world
safer by preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. Opponents have
been countering that, look, this deal only limits Iran`s nuclear program.
It doesn`t do what it was intended to do which was to stop the nuclear
program altogether. So, that`s part of the debate that you`re going to

And one factor complicating President Obama`s attempt to sell this deal to
Congress, Steve, is that their strong opposition to his decision to submit
the accord to the United Nations. That happened this week and happened
before Congress has gotten to vote on it. Congress has 60 days.

So, to that argument, the White House says, look, they`re not going to
begin implementing the plan until the congressional review is finished.
Still, some lawmakers have used really strong language, one even going so
far as to call this an affront.

Just, personally, Steve, I spent time on Capitol Hill this week. I can
tell you some of the president`s most ardent supporters are skeptical of
this deal. So, the White House has its work cut out for it this week --

KORNACKI: All right. Kristen Welker live at the White House -- thank you
for that.

President Obama now facing opposition, as we say not just from Republicans
but also from Democrats who fear the deal puts Israel in danger. Democrats
like Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, caught between some of his
constituents who are opposed to this, members of the liberal base of his
party who approve of a diplomatic solution. Whether or not Congress
approves the deal will come down to lawmakers like chuck Schumer. If he
votes against it, it could be tougher for the pact to survive.

Yesterday, I got a chance to sit down with Senator Schumer who told me his
decision on the Iran deal is one of the toughest he`s faced in more than 40
years in public office.

Played a little bit of this for you this morning but it`s significant we
thought we`ll play it again right now.


KORNACKI: You are all over the news this week because of the nuclear deal
with Iran. And everybody is looking at this, it`s now going to Congress
and Congress gets a say on it. And everybody saying, look, the lynchpin is
Chuck Schumer. Which way is going to go? So, you put out the statement
the other day, you said you`re going to review this carefully, you`re going
to talk to everybody.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: That`s what I`m doing.

KORNACKI: Let me start with you. Have you read the deal at this point?

SCHUMER: Not yet. I have been so busy in Washington. We had the
education bill on the floor. And there was an attempt to dramatically cut
funding from New York and the other Northeast states, send it to the South
and West. Took a lot of time, we beat it back. Now, New York is held
harmless. We don`t lose funds.

And we have the highway bill. You know, we`ll run out of highway funding
July 31st. So, finding a way to fund it in a bipartisan way, as that
Democrat/Republican support, has to pass the House and Senate.

So, I`ve been so busy, I`ve resolved it. This weekend I`m going to get in
my chair that I`ve had in my house for 32 years here in Brooklyn and read
it, read it thoroughly and quietly. Then, what I`ll do is I`ll talk to
people. I`ll talk to the administration. I`m sure, I`ll have a whole lot
of questions and concerns on both sides of the issue.

And the one thing I`m going to do is -- this is what I`ve learned through
the years. My 41 years as an elected official is, on important things,
just do the right thing. Now, you know, no one has a monopoly on what the
right thing is, but do what you think is the right thing. So, I`m going to
spend a lot of time thinking about it, learning about it, and then I`ll do
the right thing. I`m not going to let party or pressure or anything else.
What`s good for America first and foremost and what`s good for Israel
which, of course, I care a lot about, of course.

KORNACKI: The reason all eyes are on you is because, politically, you`re
sort of pulled in two very powerful directions here. So, on the one hand,
let me ask you from this standpoint. This president, your party`s
president, a guy you have been very close to, Barack Obama, this is like
the signature thing he`s pushing for in his second term.

SCHUMER: Well --

KORNACKI: He is seeing legacy here. Could you see a scenario where you go
against him?

SCHUMER: I`m not going to comment until I read the document. But that`s
what`s going to guide me.

But, look, when I think the president is wrong, I go against him. I just
voted against the trade bill and TPA because I thought it hurt middle class
incomes. President talked to me regularly on this issue. But I told him,
unless it changes, even if it helps corporate profits, I`m not going to be
for it if it decreases middle class incomes and I think it does.

So, there are times when I`ve broken with the president before when I
really think I have a different point of view and the right thing is not
what he`s doing. So, I`m just going to wait to read the document. I`m not
going to comment on whether I will, whether I won`t, maybe yes, maybe no.
None of that is helpful right now.

KORNACKI: I understand. But I`m going to tell you one more angle, because
I`m curious about this as well. You mentioned, too, you are a staunch
defender of Israel, advocate for Israel. Not only is Benjamin Netanyahu
very outspoken against this, the prime minister of Israel. But the leader
of the opposition of Israel is also against this. You have basically the
Democrat and Republican in Israel against this.

Could you be pro-Israel and still be --

SCHUMER: Look, there are all kinds -- many people, many different places
have many different opinions. I`ve got to read it, listen to them but make
up my own mind.

KORNACKI: Let me just -- final question on this. You have been in public
office, you know, 40 years now basically. When you look at the stakes in
this issue, the sort of the consequences of the decision you have to make
on this, where does this one rank in terms of tough decisions?

SCHUMER: High up, high up. Tough decision. High up. But I`ve had them
before, goes with the territory. That`s why you`re paid the big bucks, as
they say.

And, you know, the importance of it is very, very real to me. I`m going to
read it, go over with it a fine-toothed comb. Talk to people on all sides,
of course, the administration, and then, because it`s such an important
decision, I`m going to weigh it really carefully. That`s all I can say.


KORNACKI: OK. Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, he is the key player in
whether President Obama`s nuclear deal with Iran gets approval from
Congress. You can catch the rest of that interview with Senator Schumer as
he weighs in on President Obama`s legacy, the 2016 field, a lot more too.
It was a very fun interview. We`ll show it all to you tomorrow morning on
the show starting at 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

This morning in southern California, firefighters trying to get a new
wildfire under control. A hundred thirty hearing impaired children
evacuated from a camp near Wrightwood, California, this morning, with a
fire breaking out there overnight. Yesterday in a scene that looked right
out of a Hollywood movie, cars and trucks were engulfed in flames in the
middle of a major interstate. Motorists making a break for it on foot to
escape the smoke and the flames, the hot zone for both fires north and east
of Los Angeles.

NBC`s Gadi Schwartz is in southern California near the freeway where crews
have been working overnight to contain the wild fires.

Gadi, what`s the latest?

SCHWARTZ: This all started as frustration in traffic. People stuck in
their cars, stuck in the standstill. Then they looked over to the right
and saw a huge wall of flames coming straight at them.


SCHWARTZ (voice-over): There was nowhere to drive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband just said, get your stuff and go!

SCHWARTZ: No time to wait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could see cars burning, power lines popping.

SCHWARTZ: As the raging wildfire hit traffic gridlock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is just nowhere to go.

SCHWARTZ: Packed with drivers on the main road from L.A. to Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was people crying, kids crying. People didn`t
want to leave their babies or their cars.

SCHWARTZ: But all people could do was grab their families and head to
safety, parents pushing strollers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s literally cars going up.

SCHWARTZ: Away from a stretch of I-15 where one by one, cars, trucks and
tractor trailers were going up in flames. For over an hour, those who ran
huddled near fire trucks for protection --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there goes 1,000 gallons of water.

SCHWARTZ: As helicopters and air tankers trying to put out the flames.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A big wall of flames on both sides of the fire.

SCHWARTZ: Meanwhile, winds continued to push the fire farther into
neighboring communities, burning structures and forcing evacuations. And
as the fire on the freeway died down, families were escorted back to see
what was left, rows of burnt-out cars and trailers, and even a boat. The
site surreal for those out for on early weekend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One minute going to the beach. Next minute,

SCHWART: And stranger still for people from out of town, caught by slow
California traffic and a wildfire that moved too fast.


SCHWARTZ: Now, the good news is crews have been able to make progress on
this fire overnight. However, there is another fire about 20 miles from
where we are that we`re monitoring as well. That is a fire that is
threatening a Girl Scout camp. We understand, 300 Girl Scouts have been
evacuated, 130 of them possibly hearing impaired. And we understand more
evacuations are under way.

Back to you in the studio.

KORNACKI: All right. Gadi Schwartz in southern California. Thanks for
that report.

Still ahead, how much is Donald Trump really worth? Will we ever know?

But first, is President Obama channeling Richard Nixon? We`ll turn to
presidential historian Michael Beschloss to find out, next.



disagreements with Richard Nixon. But he understood there was the
prospect, the possibility that China could take a different path. You test
these things. And as long as we are preserving our security capacity, as
long as we are not giving away our ability to respond forcefully
militarily, where necessary to protect our friends and our allies, that`s a
risk we have to take.


KORNACKI: That`s President Obama on Tuesday discussing the Iran nuclear
deal, and using Richard Nixon`s historic 1972 trip to China as a reference
point. Exemplifying the need to engage our most deeply seeded adversaries.

Joining us now is Michael Beschloss, presidential historian and NBC News
contributor, along with today`s panel. They`re back with us. MSNBC
contributor Jonathan Capehart, also with "The Washington Post", Ben
Domenech with the Heartland Institute, and "USA Today`s" Susan Page.

So, Michael, let on the historical comparison -- historical comparisons
abound when it comes to the Iran deal. The opponents invoking Neville
Chamberlain in 1988.

over the place. They`re almost got hit by them.

KORNACKI: So, here`s a little field guy to this: when Obama is invoking
China here, Nixon and China in 1972. Is that apt?

BESCHLOSS: Yes, in a way it is. It sort of shows, by the way, how far
Richard Nixon has come in terms of being historically rehabilitated. Very
few previous presidents probably would have strained to compare themselves
to Nixon thinking that was a good thing.

But his point, I think, is right. That is that Nixon, in the early 1970s,
no one else who could have been president in 1972 or in those years would
have done this, realized that China was likely, in a pretty short period of
time, going to get very militarily, politically and economically powerful
and it was important for the United States to do that with a strong
relationship or at least the start of a relationship with China after
decades of silence. And so, that`s why he went to China.

The part of the comparison that we do not know is this. From the
standpoint of here we are 43 years later. Nixon`s decision was brilliant
and foresighted and I think most of us are very glad he made it. We cannot
know 43 years from now how the Iran deal will look.

KORNACKI: The other question is the idea of only Nixon could go to China.
I always interpreted that as Nixon was Mr. Anti-Communist, Mr. Cold
Warrior. So, it was the fact somebody who was so staunchly anti-communist,
looking for the opening with Red China, I wonder, does that apply though in
this case with Obama because Obama -- he came to office saying he wanted to
open the dialogue with Iran.


KORNACKI: And he was being hit from the right on this. So, it`s not so
much a surprise that he`s doing this.

BESCHLOSS: Yes, that is true. And, you know, so great was the feeling,
Steve, 1961, when John Kennedy was about to become president, met with
President Eisenhower, who was outgoing. Eisenhower said, you know, there`s
only one of two things that will bring me out of retirement to criticize
you in public. One of them is if you tried to create a relationship with
what was called at the time Red China.

The other thing that is parallel is that in Obama`s case, he was able as
Nixon was to say, you know, all these people who are saying I am going to
pay a big political price if I try to do this relationship, for Obama`s
case, do this Iran deal, I can surmount that. Very similar to the
relationship with Cuba, almost until the eve of Barack Obama`s decision to
renew relations with Cuba, a lot of people in this country would have said
no president would dare do that, because the political price would be too

KORNACKI: Let me bring the panel in -- the idea of the president`s legacy.
We talk in the second term he hasn`t had much luck getting things through
Congress. But on foreign policy, there is much more of an opening there.

PAGE: Well, this Iran deal is a big thing, right? This will be a big
achievement if it gets in place. Of course, Michael is right that we`ll
need some time. We`ll need decades, exactly how it works out. But after
40 years of really estrangement to have -- reached a negotiated settlement
that at least presents a possibility of a more fruitful relationship. That
is a huge thing.

President Obama is also on his way to getting the Pacific trade deal that
he wanted. You know, that`s not done yet, but I think the White House is
optimistic that`s going to work out. These are pretty significant
achievements for the president. And as you say, it`s in the last two years
of his second term, a time when presidents often turn to foreign policy.

CAPEHART: And here`s the thing that I find this interesting. It leads to
something you were talking about in the interview with Michael. And that
is: President Obama came into office saying, this is what I will do. He
was called naive, irresponsible by Hillary Clinton at that debate in 2007.

And so, when you`ve got TPP, when you have this Iran deal, what that says
to me is that Senator Barack Obama meant what he said -- elect me
president, and this is what I`m going to do.

OBAMA: It`s refreshing I guess in a way. We talk about campaign promises
that were broken. Eight years ago, this what he was talking about it.

My thanks to presidential historian Michael Beschloss.

And still ahead: maybe one of the most unknowable questions of the 2016
campaign, it has nothing to do with the question of who`s going to win.
That is still ahead.

But, first, what we know about the fifth person to die as a result of the
Chattanooga shootings. That is next. Stay with us.


KORNACKI: Returning to the breaking news out of Chattanooga this hour. As
NBC News has been reporting, a naval petty officer passed away overnight as
a result of Thursday`s shootings. That sailor was a reservist serving on
active duty. His name: Randall Smith. In total now, four marines and one
sailor were killed in the incident.

NBC News has learned that the gunman, 24-year-old Mohammad Youssuf
Abdulazeez had spent much of last year in the Middle East. It`s a trip
that friends and others who know him say may have radicalized him.
Officials are investigating the shooting as a terrorism incident. Keep you
posted as we learn more of Chattanooga. That`s still very much a
developing story.

Switching gears right now, we are as we said earlier going to take a few
moments to check in with our resident donut expert today, Dunkin` Donuts
executive chef Jeff Miller. He has been cooking up a special UP themed

And, Jeff, what is the latest over there? Something we might see on the
pastry plate any time soon?

MILLER: Well, that`s a surprise coming a little bit later. But right now,
we have a Chips Ahoy doughnut. We`ve taken cookie dough, right, and we`ve
put it inside the doughnut. The great part about making cookies where you
have the grainy brown sugar, you look it off the spatula or spoon when you
were a kid. That`s inside the doughnut. We`ve got one of America`s
favorite cookies, Chips Ahoy, on top. So, it`s super delicious.

KORNACKI: The cookie dough is inside the doughnut.


KORNACKI: And is this is low-cal, right? Less than 100 calories.

MILLER: It is low cal as long as you keep your eyes closed when you eat

KORNACKI: I like that advice. All right. We`ll be checking in with you
again a little bit later in the show. Cannot wait to see what the UP
doughnut looks like.

But still ahead. What did Mark Stanford`s know about the hike on the
Appalachian Trail. His speech writer joins us to talk about what made it
one of the bizarre six days ever in American politics. You probably
remember that well.

And next, what do we really know about Donald Trump`s wealth.


KORNACKI: Donald Trump has done something that many who follow politics
closely thought he never would. He`s filed a financial disclosure document
with the FEC, the Federal Election Commission. A full report.

Financial disclosure form that Donald Trump had to submit if he was serious
about running for president. It`s a document that he had to file in order
to be taken seriously in return.

Now, we will not be able to look at the document closely until the FEC
releases it publicly. They have 30 days to do that. But Trump this week
did issue a press release in which he tells us what he says he is worth.
He says his net worth is in excess of $10 billion. With more than $213
million of that, the money he claims he was paid for hosting the "The
Celebrity Apprentice".

The disclosure report doesn`t require candidates to reveal specific dollar
amounts for most categories of assets and income. They only need to check
a box giving a range of income.

So, even with this disclosure document, even once we see it, we still won`t
truly know what Trump is worth. We probably never will. We only have
Trump`s word for it.

Some people have disputed his claims about income in the past. Back in
2006, "New York Times" reporter Timothy O`Brien wrote a book in which he
placed his wealth far below Trump`s own estimates. Trump sued him for
defamation back then and Trump lost that lawsuit. The case was dismissed.

"Forbes" magazine, in the business really assessing wealth and having
traced Trump`s finances for more than 30 years, "Forbes" magazine currently
estimates that Donald Trump is worth $4 billion. That`s 40 percent of the
$10 billion that Trump is now claiming. And four years ago, there was a
report in "The New York Post" that quoted sources saying that Trump had
signed a new deal in which he would earn $65 million a year for hosting two
seasons of "The Celebrity Apprentice."

With Trump himself announcing long before that he wouldn`t be running for
president in 2012 because doing so would interfere with his lucrative
career in television. Now, in response to that report, NBC at the time
issued a press release calling "The Post`s" report grossly inaccurate and
adding that the numbers it cited were, quote, "significantly overstated and
not in the realm of reality."

So, it`s safe to say the political world can`t get its hands on Donald
Trump`s financial disclosure form to the FEC soon enough. Once it is
public, expect everyone to go over it with a fine-toothed comb. But even
then, even after doing that, we still may never know if Donald Trump`s
claims of what he is worth are, again, in the realm of reality.

We`re joined now to talk about all of this once again, we got Robert Costa
from "The Washington Post", joining us from D.C. And on the set with us is
MSNBC`s Lawrence O`Donnell, host of "THE LAST WORD."

So, Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, "THE LAST WORD" HOST: It cracks me up every time I
hear NBC say that Donald`s estimates of what he was making there was not in
the realm of reality. The network never had to do that with any other
performer they`ve had in their entire history. They`ve never had to make
that statement.

KORNACKI: So, what do you make of this? I mean, at a certain point, you
know, once you get over a billion or two billion, does it really matter?
But, when he`s saying $10 billion, what do you make of it?

O`DONNELL: You know, I talked about it the other night on the show, and I
got a very wise tweet right after it saying this doesn`t matter. To which
I completely agreed. And so, everything you were reading off, I was
thinking, hmm, hmm, it`s just a fun story that you just told, including the
very important point that these FEC documents won`t solve the mystery.

That`s -- I think a lot of people in the political media do not understand
those documents. A lot of them have never looked at them. So, they`ve
been expecting that they`re going to now finally have these proofs about
this money. They won`t.

And another very important thing, there is no penalty, no penalty, for
overstating your income in this FEC document. You know, there is nothing -
- you can`t get in any trouble for doing that.

So, yes. I think he`s going to have a bunch of boxes checked that say over
$50 billion for asset categories and some boxes checked that say over $5
million for income. And, you know, who knows.

KORNACKI: Robert Costa, this is -- I can remember having this discussion
with people four years ago in 2011 when Trump was flirting with running
back then. The standard line you would hear from people was, you know,
he`s never going to actually go through with it because he doesn`t --
basically, he doesn`t want to fill out this form, the form Lawrence was
just describing. I was probably saying it myself over the last few months
as he was flirting with 2016.

Now, he`s going ahead and he`s done it. He has done the thing a lot of
people were saying for years, this -- if there was anything to keep him out
of a presidential race, it would be this. Was this a factor for him four
years ago? Is it something he didn`t want to do?

ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I don`t think the financial
disclosure forms were a factor for Mr. Trump four years ago. I`ve spoken
with Mr. Trump about this in the last week, and he said about these FEC
forms, he only needs to check the box, as you say, for $50 million or more.
And so, he doesn`t feel like it`s intrusive in terms of his finances. And
four years ago, in his mind, he wanted to continue to do "The Apprentice",
and that was really on the forefront of his agenda.

KORNACKI: So, Lawrence, people have -- somebody explained this or
described it to me this way, so that we can stipulate. Donald Trump,
whatever he`s worth, he is a rich guy. So, we know that.

The question, I guess, in terms of the media`s interest in his wealth and
claims and everything, besides the fact that he makes the claims and you
want to try to verify them is, is he as top-tier wealthy as he makes
himself sound like or is he more -- he`s a rich guy who sort of a character
who plays a really rich guy?

O`DONNELL: Well, you know, the question right now between him and say,
"Forbes", is it $10 billion or is it $4 billion? That`s the question.
But, you know, if you measure the world the way Donald appears to, if you
do that, then I don`t know what you call him, because he is nowhere near
Mike Bloomberg. He is nowhere here Warren Buffett, Bill Gates. Nowhere

And if you live in a world where what you want to say is the amount of
money you`ve made is the most important representation of your value and
your success, Donald`s not in a great position compared to a lot of guys on
Wall Street whose names we don`t even know.

KORNACKI: It`s central to the character he`s created.


KORNACKI: The idea that you associate him with those.

Robert, go ahead.

COSTA: The thing -- when you look at what Mr. Trump has released so far,
and I`ve asked him about this. He said, as Lawrence said, his brand is
what he values very much.

On his disclosure form that he`s released, it`s about $3 billion. That`s
what he values his brand at. When you look at the rest of his holdings, so
much of it is real estate, that he estimates some are $500 million, perhaps
a billion dollars in worth.

So, really, it`s estimated holdings. In the complicated world of real
estate and brand, it`s not like numbers on paper. It`s not money in the
bank. It`s really valuing things that don`t have a specific value in terms
of what it cost or what`s invested.

O`DONNELL: And there was a wonderful revelation under oath in the lawsuit
that he unwisely I would say brought against Timothy O`Brien`s book, which
he`d lost, in which Donald under oath in the deposition says that his value
fluctuates according to his mood. That his mood frequently determines --

KORNACKI: So, he`s basically --

O`DONNELL: Yes, how much -- the thing Robert was just talking about, how
much his brand value is worth, you know? It`s -- it is -- that lawsuit is
as fun as everything else that you can read about Donald Trump.

KORNACKI: Let me put this on the screen too. We got new poll numbers this
week in the trend of the Donald Trump surge, it continues.

This is the newest FOX News poll. Donald Trump up there in first place, 18
percent, on the Republican side. Scott Walker, 15. There you got it, Jeb
Bush now down at 14 percent. Rand Paul at 8 percent. Rubio at 7, Carson

You can really see how Trump has sort of stolen the thunder in this race.

And, Robert Costa, we are now -- as we always say, we`re three weeks away
now -- doing the countdown on the show until the first Republican debate.
What is the rest of the Republican field saying about the Donald Trump
surge? Do they all believe this is a temporary thing that`s going to go
away? Or are they starting to say maybe this has more staying power than
we thought?

COSTA: They believe privately and some of them even publicly that this has
more staying power than they`d like to believe perhaps a few weeks ago.
"The Washington Post" scoop this week that crews are trying to woo Trump.
According to him, at Trump Tower, believe that maybe if Trump does not
continue all the way to the early primaries, he could get some support,
those Trump voters.

But if you`re Ben Carson, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and you`re on the hard right
side of the GOP, Trump is an immediate threat, not only on the debate stage
but among the momentum of grass-roots activists.

KORNACKI: Lawrence, did you ever think you`d be covering a story like this
Donald Trump voters, Trump in first place --

O`DONNELL: Yes, I mean, let`s remember what the story is. Donald Trump is
at 18 percent with Republican voters. These are the same people who put
Herman Cain higher than that, OK? And Michele Bachmann higher than that.
Sarah Palin higher than that.

So, these are, you know -- these people, these Republican voters at this
stage go through a really interesting fantasy exercise now every four years
with fantasy figures. And Donald was one of those fantasy figures.

COSTA: But you just wonder, Lawrence, in a crowded field --


COSTA: I was saying, Lawrence, I`m curious about your view. I mean, in a
crowded field, I agree, Trump could flame out. Trump could be a Herman
Cain, Bachmann figure, just a summer fling for Republican voters. But in a
crowded field, 15 percent or 20 percent could carry you pretty far.

O`DONNELL: Yes. I think there is no reason to suspect he would drop out
before they start counting votes in several states.

I mean, his campaign is not going to be expensive at all. There is nothing
for him to spend money on except the flying. If you look at the spending
report, it`s all about flying Donald from place to place. And they can
afford to do that.

No need for him to buy any TV ads. There`s nothing --

KORNACKI: He said this, too, in interview with Katy Tur. He said, I got
more attention sitting in Trump Tower than they got in those parades up in
New Hampshire.

O`DONNELL: TV ad. He is the only candidate probably where a TV ad will
actually not be a better presentation of him on TV than him on TV.

KORNACKI: That`s an interesting thought. And that`s what it is for all
the rest of them. The rest of them are not as good on TV as their ads.

KORNACKI: Yes, that is rare. That`s a powerful thing in politics.

My thanks to MSNBC`s Lawrence O`Donnell for getting up early this morning.
Also, "The Washington Post`s" Robert Costa, as always.


O`DONNELL: -- Dunkin` Donuts.

KORNACKI: We can go and make our own doughnuts nut.

O`DONNELL: You know, when I leave here, I`m going to Boston. I`m going to
go to the original Dunkin` Donuts store.

KORNACKI: Where is it?

O`DONNELL: That`s in Quincy, which is also the location of where the
original Howard Johnson`s.

KORNACKI: And favorite flavor?

O`DONNELL: You know what, I want to say something here. Dunkin` Donuts
sells a lot of stuff that isn`t doughnuts. And that`s good. And that`s
kind of a little healthier for you. So, there is plenty of reason to go to
Dunkin` Donuts other than the doughnuts. Especially, obviously, the

KORNACKI: All right. Lawrence is on his way to Quincy, in a Dunkin`
Donuts up there.

Still ahead. Our big reveal, the UP doughnut. Hard at work in the
doughnut center. We`re going to find out what that looks like.

But, first, not even his closest staffers knew where Mark Sanford had
disappeared to. You remember this story? A behind the scenes look at the
confusion, all the chaos when the then-governor of South Carolina said he
was hiking on the Appalachian Trail. Trip down memory lane for somebody
who was up close for all of it. That is next.

Stay with us.


KORNACKI: All right. We want to take you back in time about six years
ago, you probably remember this. One of the strangest political mysteries
ever, the sudden disappearance of the governor of South Carolina, Mark
Sanford. Now, he claimed at the time that he had gone for a hike on the
Appalachian trail. But he hadn`t spoken with practically everyone,
including his office.


RACHEL MADDOW, THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW: He had been gone Thursday, Friday,
Saturday, Sunday, Monday by this point. He had not spoken to anyone on his
staff. He was not answering text messages or phone calls. He had not
transferred power to his lieutenant governor. And this was starting to get

JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: Oh, my God! Anybody is running South
Carolina! The Palmetto State is a rudderless ship!


KORNACKI: And, of course, it was a day later, nearly a week after he
vanished, the truth about his disappearance and about Sanford himself
emerged. He was taking a hike on the Appalachian Trail. He was instead in
Argentina visiting his mistress.


wife. I hurt my boys. I hurt friends like Tom Davis. I hurt a lot of
different folks. And all I can say is that I apologize.


KORNACKI: That while Sanford, who is now a congressman, finished his term
out as governor he resigned as chairman of the Republican governor`s
association and eventually divorced his wife jenny. The very public news
conference aired on TVs nationwide.

But what was going on within Sanford`s administration, with the staffers
who were as out of the loop as the rest of us as all of this drama played
out for the world to see.

Well, Barton Swaim was a speechwriter for Mark Sanford. He discusses his
experience in the new book, "The Speechwriter". And he joins us now.

So, Bart, let me ask you this. What`s the first thing you said to Governor
Sanford when he came back from the, quote/unquote, "Appalachian Trail"?

him for several days. Didn`t want to. It -- those were the most bizarre
days of my life and several others of us. It was like for a week I would
wake up every day and think, I had the craziest dream that the governor --
oh, yes, that happened. Yes, I don`t remember what I said to him.

KORNACKI: So, when in this drama did you realize there was a problem here?

SWAIM: Well, he liked to -- he would go away from time to time like, you
know, like any boss would. I think it`s fair to say to say that he`s a
difficult boss to work for. I talk about that a little bit in the book,
you know, in a fun way.

And when media came and started asking questions about, you know, where is
he? Where is he? I remember thinking, don`t ask that. He`ll come back.
When he was gone, I actually could get things done and it was a little more
pleasant in the office, to be honest.

So I didn`t know anything about anything until five minutes before he gave
that very weird press conference. And somebody said what he was going to
say would be disappointing, so I thought, that`s not good. It was a
comical -- go ahead.

KORNACKI: Yes, what was he telling you guys when he came back? Was he
saying, don`t worry, we can ride this out, we`ll be fine? Did he recognize
the gravity of the situation?


SWAIM: Well, I open the book with the scene maybe a day or two after when
he addressed the staff, and I can see that he wanted to apologize to us
all, because he kind of made, you know, us all a laughingstock in a way,
but he just couldn`t -- he just couldn`t bring himself to do it. And he
told us that, well, the sun came up that day and he`d be reading Viktor
Frankl`s memoir of being in a concentration camp, and at least we`re not in
a concentration camp. The strangest things I ever heard.

So I guess, you know, we could be grateful for that. And then the talk was
over. That was the apology.

KORNACKI: Well, I`m glad you can still laugh at it six years later like
the rest of us. It`s such a bizarre story and it`s such an interesting
book that you`ve written.

But Barton Swaim author of "The Speechwriter", I appreciate you sharing a
few memories of a very unusual time.

And, of course, Mark Sanford, he`s back now, he`s in Congress. There are
second acts in American politics sometimes.

Up next, we`ll switch gears for a little midsummer fun. I`m going to ask
my panel to get off their seats and go into the kitchen. It`s time to make
some doughnuts.


KORNACKI: While we`ve been hard at work in the UP kitchen, and it is time
for the big redevelop to make our introduction about original weekend
morning news in politics inspired creation of Dunkin` Donuts, courtesy of
executive chef, Jeff Miller.

But before we show you Jeff`s, we want to go down the line and show you the
other doughnuts we`ve been working on.

So, Susan?

PAGE: This is an idea of blue doughnut. You have to visualize as blue,
"USA Today" and you get a free copy of the paper when I buy one.

KORNACKI: I love it.

MILLER: I like it.

KORNACKI: I love it. I love it.

Here is mine. I`m calling it the sprinkle sandwich. It`s two layers of
chocolate frosting with sprinkles in the middle and a smiley face.

MILLER: I love it.


CAPEHART: Mine is delicious. I don`t know what to call this but I`m
dedicating this to pastry plate. UP pastry plate, this is for you.

KORNACKI: Ben, what have you got?

DOMENECH: I`m not as inventive as the rest of you and I do love sprinkles
so I have a lot of them.

KORNACKI: All right. Jeff, here is the big moment, let`s take a look at
the UP doughnut. What have we got here?

MILLER: This is a Boston cream, which is Steve`s favorite, and this is how
the pros do it with a beautiful UP decoration on top.

KORNACKI: Look, they`re boxed and everything. These are beautiful. This
is -- do you want to just throw a sprinkle sandwich?


MILLER: Yes, I think we should.

KORNACKI: I hope we gave you new ideas today that you can take back to
Dunkin` Donuts university and turn out some new products.

MILLER: I`m getting you some aprons. Come on by.

KORNACKI: I love it. Jeff, thank you for being here. I really appreciate
it. This is cool and very exciting to have.

I love Susan`s too.

Thanks to our panelists for the day. We`re going to have a lot to eat

Susan Page, Jonathan Capehart, Ben Domenech, thank you all for being with

Thank you for getting UP with us today and join us tomorrow, Sunday
morning, 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time. That full interview with Senator Chuck
Schumer of New York, the one everyone wants to hear from on the Iran deal.
He weighs on that and so much more. And also he talks about why diners are
his favorite places to eat. That`s tomorrow.

But before that, you`re going to want to watch Melissa Harris-Perry. She
is coming up next. Have a great Saturday.


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