All In With Chris Hayes, Tuesday, July 21st, 2015
Read the transcript from the Tuesday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: July 21, 2015
Guest: Rick Wilson, Tim O`Brien, Alicia Reece, Lorenzo Davis
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What a stiff. What a
stiff. Lindsey Graham.
HAYES: The Republican front runner unloads.
TRUMP: I think Rick Perry probably is smarter than Lindsey Graham.
But what do I know?
HAYES: Releasing his opponent`s cell phone number to a crowd in South
TRUMP: Let`s try it, 202 (AUDIO DELETED)
HAYES: Tonight, as the Republican field swells to 16, how long can
Donald Trump last?
Plus, with the debate cut off set off at 10 candidates, a look at the
desperate measures that the rest of the field is resorting to, to get on to
that debate stage.
Then, the gathering storm to defeat the president`s Iran deal as he
takes his case to veterans.
And could the man who tried to sell the president`s old Senate seat
get out of jail early?
ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: I`ve got this thing and
it`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
The massive Republican presidential field is finally amazingly set.
We think. Probably.
Today, Ohio Governor John Kasich became the 16th and potentially last
major GOP candidate to enter the race. We will have more on Kasich`s
resume and qualifications later in the show.
But now that he`s in and field may finally be complete, the focus
shifts to the high stakes race within the race, the brutal battle royale to
get on stage for the FOX News Republican debate where there can only be
FOX decided to limit the first debate to the top ten in the national
polls, which means that while 16 candidates will enter, only most of them
will make it. And for those 16, making it to the stage on August 6th is
now the number one goal.
Here is the current rankings based on recent polls. The top eight
candidates look relatively safe, but Chris Christie and Rick Perry with
less than 3 percent are very much on the bubble. Rick Santorum, Kasich,
Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Lindsey Graham and George Pataki are out of
The problem for these candidates is that it`s almost impossible to get
attention and get your poll numbers up when a certain real estate
developer/erstwhile reality TV personality is sucking up all of the oxygen
in the race.
Rand Paul today in a bid to breakthrough released an ad asking, quote,
"How would you kill the tax code?", in which is shown feeding the tax code
into a wood chipper and licensing through it with the chainsaw.
And there`s South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham who despite serving
three Senate terms, is barely registering in national polls. Graham got
some attention this week for calling Donald Trump a, quote, "jackass" for
questioning whether John McCain is a war hero.
And today, at a truly surreal campaign stop in South Carolina,
Graham`s home state, the Donald hit back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You have this guy Lindsey Graham, a total lightweight. Here`s
the guy, in the private sector, he couldn`t get a job, believe me.
Couldn`t get a job. What a stiff. What a stiff. Lindsey Graham.
By the way, he is registered zero in the polls. Zero. He is on
television all of the time.
But this guy Lindsey Graham said, he calls me a jackass this morning.
I said to myself, you know, it`s amazing. He does not seem like a bright
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That wasn`t all. In between all the insults, Donald Trump did
something that you won`t quite believe. He read Lindsey Graham`s phone
number out loud to everyone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I got called a jackass by this guy, and then I said to myself,
hey, didn`t this guy call me like four years ago? Yes. He called me four
years ago, three, four years ago. Lindsey Graham, I didn`t even know who
He goes, Mr. Trump, this is Senator Lindsey Graham, I wonder if it
would be possible for you to call FOX.
He wanted to know if I could give him a good reference on "Fox and
Friends", OK? You know what am I saying, what`s this guy, is a beggar.
He`s like begging me to help with "Fox and Friends". So, I say. OK, and
I`ll mention your name. He said, could you mention my name? I said, yes,
And he gave me his number, and I found the card. I wrote the number
down. I don`t know if it`s the right number. Let`s try it -- 202 (AUDIO
I don`t know. Maybe it`s -- you know, it`s three, four years ago.
So, maybe it`s an old number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: For the record, it was not an old number because we know that
because we called.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OPERATOR: Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice
Lindsey Graham is not available. The mailbox is full. I cannot
accept any messages at this time.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAYES: Reporters were able to reach Graham on that number before the
voice mail filled up. And this afternoon, Graham tweeted possibly as a
joke, quote, "probably getting a new phone, iPhone or Android?"
Donald Trump isn`t just in first place in the polls right now. He`s
completely dominating the attention of the Republican race, to the point
that the only time you hear anything about the candidates like Lindsey
Graham is when Donald Trump insults them.
And for the GOP presidential hopefuls trying to break through and get
in that top ten, how they deal with that phenomenon amazingly may well be
what matters most.
Joining me now, Republican media consultant Rick Wilson, founder of
Rick, I think this 10-candidate cutoff is so fascinating for
unintended consequences, which is that the RNC engineered a primary system
that they were designing to have some kind of control and get rid of the --
some of the theatrics and the long duration of the last one, and
particularly around debates. And FOX News had the cut off which is now
through unintended consequences mean that candidates have to be polling as
a certain amount nationally which changes the entire strategic trajectory
of how you run one of these campaigns.
RICK WILSON, REPUBLIC MEDIA CONSULTANT: Sure. It absolutely does,
Chris. And what you got also is that no one anticipated in the planning
phase of this that the meritorious action of filtering mechanism could be -
- could have a hole in it large enough for the Trump`s giant ego to drive
And the fact that he is on television for 20-plus years as a celebrity
and character on television for this long, you know, it was a loophole that
Reince and those guys may be should have anticipated, but then again he`d
always sort of head faked every campaign before this.
Unfortunately, it does change the calculus for all these campaigns.
They`ve all got to build out, you know, a race to 10 percent at this point
and get in the window, and it`s a very difficult position to be in,
especially in the bottom tier, where there are some who are actually pretty
meritorious. You know, Carly Fiorina for instance I think is terrific.
But she is not going to make the bracket right now, and the Donald Trump is
going to make -- make it to that first debate stage.
HAYES: Well, so, FOX, two points on this, FOX has now said they`re
going to move that -- the sort of also run the kid`s table debate down to
5:00 p.m., so it`s closer to prime time, that will probably get more eye
balls, which I think -- you know, probably good for those -- the folks
Here is the other thing, you got this cutoff now in these national
polls, right? You know, the eight candidates in the bottom of the field
are within three percentage with each other, the margin of error on the
polls is like all over the place. You`re dealing with tiny, sample sizes
with zero references.
WILSON: You`re looking at 250 samples. It`s ridiculous.
HAYES: Right. So, you have three people and two said yes to another,
and then in the next one, it`s reversed. But that`s going to end up being
I guess that my question is: how much does the cut off matter, do you
think, if you were advising one of these campaigns?
WILSON: Well, look, if you`re in that almost going to make it
bracket, you should spend what money you got to get on that stage.
WILSON: Because everyone of these guys, it`s going to be on that
stage now, they`ve reached the conclusion correctly that Donald Trump is
going draw a billion eye balls to this same thing and they`re all going to
be the ones that take down the woolly mammoth, and they`re all going to be
try the one who puts the spear into The Donald that changes the trajectory
of the campaign.
And, look, Rick Perry was the first guy out of the gate who had
trouble taking off in 2012, he`s been one of the most persistent critics of
Trump. But I think that he is getting some traction because of it. Jeb
Bush and Marco Rubio are starting to tune up on Trump.
You`re going to see them go after him without any hesitation at this
point because they also recognize something, that while no individual
stupidity is going to take Trump down, the aggregation of all the stupidity
HAYES: Always the aggregation of stupidity that ends up doing you in.
I mean, that`s interesting that you -- that would be the advice. That is
my instincts. I`m not a campaign professional.
My instinct is, A, it`s going to rate very highly because people are
going to want to see what the heck happens. B, it does create a tear in
people`s mind that`s going to be pretty conceptually important going
forward even though that it`s early. And third, everyone is hoping -- I
mean, remember the last cycle, those debate moments really did provide
tremendous amount of fuel to Republican campaigns.
WILSON: Sure. Look, you saw those debates last time empower little
bubbles for Michelle Bachmann and Herman Cain and Rick Perry, and all of
these folks. And so, both the frequency and amplitude of these changes in
`12 were very swift.
And I think that you`re going see that the person who comes out on the
stage and shows that they`re not only the person that can handle Donald
Trump`s bellowing, but also, you know, who can show that they`re the
logical person, who`s strong enough to go up against Hillary Clinton at the
same time, it`s going to be very, very strongly advantaged coming out of
HAYES: Yes. All right. Rick Wilson, thank you very much.
WILSON: You bet, Chris.
HAYES: Joining me now, Tim O`Brien, publisher of "Bloomberg View".
He`s a man who is sued by Trump for $5 billion for allegedly understating
Trump`s net worth in his 2005 book, "Trump Nation: The Art of Being
So, you`re a guy who wrote -- you wrote a biography of this guy. I
mean, I was talking to someone today. You know, if you grew up in New York
in the `80s, this guy was like Leona Helmsley, Donald Trump, George
Steinbrenner Woods, that was like the whole. Yes, that was the universe of
the kind of tabloid world. It`s just like the character you live with,
TIMOTHY O`BRIEN, BLOOMBERG VIEW: Right.
HAYES: How do you understand what`s happening based on your knowledge
of the guy?
O`BRIEN: I mean, this is consistent with what Donald has done his
entire life, and his entire career, which is to thrive and inhabit --
thrive in and inhabit the spotlight. He is -- the media has let them off
the hook so far because they focused on the phenomenon rather than the
track record. I think if he continues to be lighter than air, and remain
aloft, people are going to start to scrutinize his actual track record as a
businessman, and his actual track record in other ventures that he`s
fostered. But for him right now, it`s nirvana.
HAYES: I mean, you can tell how much he`s loving it.
O`BRIEN: He is a very happy man.
HAYES: What -- when you talk about that track record, what do you
mean by it?
O`BRIEN: You know how he got into the casino business in Atlantic
City. His partners when he first entered the Atlantic City casino market,
how well he ran those casinos, the reality of his real-estate empire.
HAYES: Right. You`re putting that in quotes?
O`BRIEN: Well, I mean, look, he`s developed some substantial
properties, but he`s not the biggest real estate developer in New York by
most standard assessments. He has gone all over the map about what his
wealth amounts to.
HAYES: He also had tremendous and high -- you know, he has filed
bankruptcy numerous times. He`s had tremendous failures.
O`BRIEN: He has never filed for a personal bankruptcy.
HAYES: Never filed for a personal. Right.
O`BRIEN: Correct, but he`s been -- but he has been the godfather of
some corporate bankruptcies, and, you know, was a child of humongous bank
lending that also inflated his sort of presence in the public eye. And,
you know, he has to get credit for being a remarkable self-promoter. But
what that means is that he is not Steve Jobs and he`s not Henry Ford.
O`BRIEN: He`s not John Rockefeller. He is P.T. Barnum.
HAYES: And then the question becomes how -- everyone is asking how
long. I mean, I don`t think -- I think people understand I know that the
guns will turn towards him metaphorically in terms of attacks.
There`s a lot in that record from things he said positively about, you
know, Democrats, to quotes he gave about a guy who`s, you know, pled to --
you know, trafficking underage women, you know, talking about, oh, he likes
those girls young. I mean, there`s a lot in there.
How long do you think that this can last?
O`BRIEN: I think this will last as long as the media is a participant
in sort of keeping the game alive and as long as the political opponents
are too shy to go after him on the issues.
HAYES: That`s my question. Once they do go after him and if the
bubble breaks, right, if there is this kind of support, the question then
becomes, what`s the off ramp? Like how, is he -- it seems to me that he
now out of the sort of point of personal pride is doing this to show he
can, and there`s a desire.
O`BRIEN: And why does he need to be an off-ramp? He can stay in it
as long as he wants?
O`BRIEN: He may not get delegates, but he`s got the funds. He can
just run as an independent if the GOP ignores. So, the idea that he is
going disappear --
HAYES: That`s my question.
O`BRIEN: -- overnight, people should disabuse them of that notion.
HAYES: That is I think an important point, because he has been
through ups and downs in various business ventures, the guy has already had
nine lives as far as his --
O`BRIEN: And to his credit, he is a survivor.
HAYES: Yes. Right, that`s right.
O`BRIEN: But also, he should, you know, I think be scrutinized about
whether he`s a good manager and whether he`d make a good executive.
HAYES: That seems more that fair.
Tim O`Brien, thank you very much.
O`BRIEN: All right, Chris. Thanks.
HAYES: All right. Still ahead, the disturbing dashcam video released
just a few hours ago showing the arrest of Sandra Bland in Texas.
Plus, the familiar faces trying to torpedo the president`s Iran deal.
But, first, meet the 16th Republican now running for the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I worked with Ronald
Reagan, and I got to travel with Ronald Reagan. Yes, I actually knew the
guy. The real guy, not from a history book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It seems fitting that Ohio Governor John Kasich entered the
race today as candidate 16 in already crowded field of Republican
presidential hopefuls. He was also by sheer coincidence the very last pick
in our ALL IN 2016 fantasy candidate draft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Jess McIntosh ending the game on 23. John Kasich.
ANNOUNCER: John Kasich. He is the governor of Ohio by FOX News.
He`s expanded Medicaid and now, he`s thinking about expanding his resume.
Give it up for John Kasich.
HAYES: At nearly Fiorina levels of enthusiasm for studio audience for
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: With John Kasich`s announcement, Jess McIntosh is now tied in
second place with Sam Seder, both have four draft picks for running for
president. While Joy Reid and Michael Steele led the way with all five of
their draft picks running for president.
Everything you ever wanted to know about the newest 2016 contender and
something you didn`t, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASICH: I am here to ask you for your prayers, for your support, for
your efforts because I have decided to run for president of the United
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Today, Ohio Governor John Kasich became the 16th Republican
presidential candidate to enter the field. At first glance, it would have
seemed that he has had a career tailor-made to be a GOP front runner. Nine
term congressman with executive experience in a swing state, who cut his
teeth as a top deputy for House Speaker Newt Gingrich during the Gingrich
Republican revolution, and eventually turned that into a hosting gig at FOX
News, fronting the show "From the Heartland".
After a stint as the managing director at the investment bank Lehman
Brothers until it, you know, collapsed and shamed and ruined in 2008,
Kasich went on to be elected the 69th governor of Ohio where he promptly
turned his attention to the GOP priorities of gutting public sector union
and restricting abortion access and voting rights. While Kasich`s record
is largely well within the Republican orthodoxy, there`s one very, very
important exception, Medicaid.
Kasich went to war with his own state party to make Ohio just one of
10 states with Republican governors to expand Medicaid coverage, and
bringing health care to some 300,000 residents of Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASICH: I had a conversation with one of the leaders the other day,
one of the leaders, one of the members of the legislature the other day.
I said, I respect the fact that you believe in small government. I do
too. I happen to know that you`re a person of faith. Now, when you die
and go to the meeting with St. Peter, he is probably not going ask you much
about keeping government small, but he is going to ask you what you did for
the poor. You better have a good answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Comments like those reportedly led two of his fellow
Republican governors to accuse him of, quote, "hiding behind Jesus to
It made him a target of Republican lawmakers and activists alike. So,
the question is: does a high profile attempt to accept billions of federal
dollars so some poor people will get health insurance disqualify you in
today`s Republican primary?
Joining me now, State Representative Alicia Reece, Democrat from Ohio.
And, Representative Reece, for folks that are not familiar with John
Kasich, and you`ve been going toe to toe with him and working with him on
some stuff in your state, how do you think people outside of Ohio should
STATE REP. ALICIA REECE (D), OHIO: Well, I say do not count them out.
I mean, people should definitely take him serious. I think we as
Democrats, we learned that lesson in the election. You know, as you`ve
indicated we`ve gone toe to toe on issues -- women`s rights, voting rights.
We have gone toe to toe on tax policies.
But then there`s some other areas where we`ve been able, I`m president
of the Ohio Legislative Black Caucus, where we worked together, as Black
Lives Matter was on the streets in Ohio, and Tamir Rice and John Crawford,
we came together and the governor had executive order for a police
community relations statewide task force to try to get out of front of
When we went toe to toe with him on minority businesses, he came
forward and has had one of the largest records right now for minority
You know, as Democrat, I say, you know, don`t count them out and Ohio
is the battleground state. The Republican convention is coming to Ohio.
Republicans have started an African-American campaign. So, we`ve got to be
on the ground. Ohio will play a role in this presidential election, both
in the Republican Party and in the Democratic Party.
HAYES: He has -- he was someone that was looking to be a one term
governor after he lost a big referendum over his legislation to kind of
essentially gut public sector unions similar to how Scott Walker did.
After he lost that, he appeared to kind of change trajectory a bit, that`s
when the Medicaid expansion started to play out. He now has, if I`m not
mistaken, a 60 percent approval rating.
What do you -- how do you understand that approval rating?
REECE: Well, you know again, I think he learned his lesson when he
took on labor rights and the people hit the streets. I think that we sent
a loud message to John Kasich, and began to change. He came back with
Medicaid expansion against his own party.
So, I think, in that regard, that`s what he offers on the Republican
side. From the Democrats, again, Ohio is going to play a major role in it.
I think one of the vulnerable areas, though, that he has and the Republican
Party has is the issue of voting rights. Even beyond just the Voting
Rights Act in Ohio, we have a constitutional amendment. I`ve been on your
show, and we talked about it, that we`re leading with the people for a
voter bill of rights in the constitution, be the first I believe in the
So, he has not gotten on board there. And I think that poses a
problem for Republicans as he is trying to kind of cross over and do some
issues that are appealing to Democrats, there are some core values where I
think he is going hit, you know, a bump in the road if the Democrats step
up and take Ohio seriously.
HAYES: Finally, how nasty did that Medicaid fight get? I know it
required a bit of kind of procedural maneuvering on the governor`s party
who really alienated a lot of people in the Ohio Republican Party, but
nationally as well.
REECE: Absolutely. Medicaid was critical, and as president of Ohio
Legislative Black Caucus, we were one of the first groups that came out
strongly for full Medicaid expansion. We have been in contact with the
governor`s office. There was a lot of maneuvering. He had to go against
his party, he had to go against some -- you know, folks on his side, some
of the radical element. And at the end of the day, he did the right thing.
The legislature did not do the right thing. The Republican
legislature at both in the House and the Senate did not do the right thing.
So, he was able to maneuver and to get it done. And I think again, a lot
of people remember that. People call it Obamacare and he stood up and
supported Obamacare in the state of Ohio.
HAYES: Stood up and supported Obamacare in the state of Ohio.
There`s a campaign ad for all of John Kasich`s opponent.
State Representative Alicia Reece, thank you so much for joining us.
REECE: It may hurt him on the Republican side.
HAYES: I think you know (ph).
Up next, breaking Blagojevich news, the currently incarcerated
governor of Illinois might just get a new day in court.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: I can`t wait to begin to tell my side of the story and
to address you guys.
Hang loose. Hang loose. Now, I can get a run, do you think?
I consider myself the anti-Nixon. Remember, during Watergate, Richard
Nixon fought every step of the way to keep his tapes from being heard. I
want just the opposite. I want them all heard now, right away. So, the
whole story can be heard.
It`s in God`s hands. And, you know, my hands are shaky, and my knees
are weak, I can`t stand on my own two feet, I`m praying and certainly hope
for the best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: He is back, kind of.
Four years Rod Blagojevich became the fourth governor of Illinois in
four decades to be sentenced to prison, a federal appeals court just throw
out of the five of the 18 counts against Blagojevich and vacated his 14-
year sentence and ordered him retried on the five counts. The court
finding that Blagojevich effort to trade Barack Obama ally Valerie
Jarrett`s appointment to the Senate in exchange for a seat for himself in
the Obama cabinet amounted to just basically political log roll in the kind
of favors that did not violate the law.
All that means the former governor will get a day of court. The court
called the evidence against him on the other charges overwhelming.
Blagojevich, if you recall, was caught on tape trying to use Obama`s seat
as leverage after the 2008 election.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: I told my nephew Alex who just turned 26 today. I said,
Alex, you know, I call him for his birthday, and I says, it`s just too bad
you`re not four years older, because I`m going to give you a U.S. Senate
seat for your birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BLAGOJEVICH: You know what I mean?
I mean, I`ve got this thing. And it`s (EXPLECTIVE DELETED) golden.
And I am just not giving it up for (EXPLETIVE DELETED) nothing. I am in
the going to do it.
And I can also parachute use it and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) parachute me
(END VIDE CLIP)
HAYES: That`s former governor, currently incarcerated in a federal
prison in Colorado. And the court ruled today that Blagojevich is not
entitled to be released pending the further proceedings, which means he
can`t go jogging or offer up any Elvis impersonations, or run for any
reality shows again any time soon, much to the disappointment of cable news
HAYES: On the same day that the president ordered the American flag
over the White House to be lowered to half staff in memory of the service
members killed last week in Chattanooga, President Obama traveled to
Pittsburgh to speak at the annual convention of the Veterans of Foreign
Now at that same event where almost exactly 13 years ago then Vice
President Dick Cheney laid out his case for invading Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FRM. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Simply stated,
there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction,
there is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends,
against our allies and against us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Today, President Obama made the case for a, well, a very
different approach to foreign policy, arguing the Iran nuclear deal
represents this country`s best shot at resolving a dangerous situation
without starting another war.
He even drew a direct connection between the opposition to the deal
and Cheney`s advocacy for the Iraq war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the debate over this
deal, we`re hearing the echoes of some of the same policies and mindset
that failed us in the past, some of the same politicians and pundits that
are so quick to reject the
possibility of a diplomatic solution to Iran`s nuclear program, are the
same folks who are so quick to go to war in Iraq and said it would take a
few months. And we know the consequences of that choice and what it cost
us in blood and treasure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There`s more than a little truth to that. Ever since the
nuclear talks began, there has been an explosion in the activities of tax
exempt 501(c)(4)s and other lobbying groups with names like Secure American
Now, the Emergency Committee for Israel, and United Against Nuclear Iran.
And guess who is on the boards of those groups? Familiar faces like
John Bolton, Bill Kristol, Joe Lieberman who is on at least three.
With the 60 day clock for congress to now review the deal, starting
yesterday a barrage of Apocalyptic ads have been unleashed on the airways.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: America can`t risk more concessions.
ANNOUNCER: But now Obama is caving to Iran.
ANNOUNCER: Iran keeps their nuclear facilities, military sites can go
ANNOUNCER: And over the next 10 to 15 years, all restrictions will
end, allowing Iran to build a dangerous nuclear program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a great deal for Iran and a dangerous deal
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: But the biggest campaign against the deal probably belongs to
American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC, which already spent a
record $1.7 million in the first half of the year lobbying for a
congressional review of the deal.
Now, AIPAC has created a tax exempt group of its own, Citizens for a
Nuclear Free Iran, which could spend as much as $20 million on a national
ad campaign, as a source told the New York Times.
According to one report, the executive director of AIPAC widely
considered the most influential lobby in Washington, or one of the most,
told employees to cancel their summer vacation plans in order to get to
Joining me now, Ali Gharib. He`s a contributor to The Nation where he
has been chronically the political debate over this.
All right, how big a deal is this push going to be? I mean, obviously
AIPAC is a strong and powerful well coordinated lobby. What makes them
unique I think often on the Hill is how well they have relationships on
both sides of the aisle.
How big a deal is this going to be?
ALI GHARIB, THE NATION: It`s going to be a big deal. I mean, we`re
starting to see the sort of -- the fault lines of opinion with some of the
key figures that are the ones -- you know, Obama only needs to keep one-
third plus one of either chamber of congress in order to keep the deal
alive, that`s what he needs to beat a veto of a congressional resolution of
And to do that, some of the key figures here are Democrats, right,
because if he can keep the caucus together then the deal stays alive.
HAYES: And that`s why it`s going to be such an intense pressure, a
high stakes battle, because it`s going to be people like Chuck Schumer, for
GHARIB: Who has not come out yet and said definitely whether he is
going to support or oppose this deal. And this is a guy looking for the
majority leader position, that`s a lot of pressure for him.
HAYES: You have also got AIPAC now hiring folks -- they`ve got like a
who`s who of, like idle retired or defeated democrats. Mark Begich from
Alaska, Mary Landrieu. I believe Sherry Lee Berkeley (ph) who ran
unsuccessfully in Nevada. You`ve got Evan Bayh. These folks are now going
to be sent to the Hill to try to lobby their former colleagues.
GHARIB: Right. And it`s sort of a remarkable list when you look at
it. I mean, it`s obvious why AIPAC picked them, they`re the most stalwart
like traditionally pro-Israel figures that have come off the Hill in recent
years, but it`s also sort of insane. I mean, Joe Lieberman is a guy who
spoke last month at the conference of this really wacky Iranian opposition
group and said that hey, the American government should back you guys and
your policy of regime change and installing yourself at the top of the
And this is a group that was on the terrorist list until 2012...
HAYES: You`re talking about MEK.
GHARIB: The MEK, yeah, the Mojahedin-e-Khalq, they`re -- I mean, you
know, god bless them they like really care about what they do and they`re
intense advocates, but they are really out there. I mean, cult-like
practices, human rights abuses of their own members. It`s far out.
And Joe Lieberman is one of their most ardent supporters in
Washington. And this is the guy AIPAC picks to like run around and carry
their water on the Hill. It`s sort of outstanding.
HAYES: Well, let me say this. Let`s say -- so I think it`s possible
-- first let me say I think it`s possible that the interests of Israel and
the U.S. actually diverge in this case. That seems like a -- that`s a
possible thing to happen even between, quote, allies, right.
GHARIB: Yeah, don`t tell Capitol Hill, but yes.
HAYES: Correct, that`s possible.
But let`s say you are someone -- either a voter or a member of
congress who really does worry about Israel`s security, that`s something
that is up at the top of your list. Why should you listen to the Obama
administration over the government of Israel, which seems united in
opposition to the deal?
GHARIB: Not only the government of Israel, but also the opposition
party in Israel. I mean, Boonie (ph) Herzog, the opposition leader is said
to come here and like he says I`m not lobbying, but that`s exactly what
he`s doing. He`s going to lobby against the deal.
And you know I think at some point for me personally it`s an easy call
to make, because like I am not interested in what the Labor Party in
Israel, the center-left party, has to say either. I mean, I think that
that`s sort of a country that`s like trending towards a hyper nationalist
direction and certainly you have seen -- I had a conversation recalled to
me with an Israeli-left politician who said, you know, we just can`t do
anything on the Iran issue. We can`t touch it. Even if we wanted to come
out and support of diplomacy, it`s just not -- the electorate doesn`t go
And that does not mean that every Israeli wants to bomb Iran, but
they`re more open to it. And the whole political dialogue there over the
issue has been really poisoned by Benjamin Netanyahu`s Apocalyptic
But it`s not to say that there aren`t people who saying their voices
prevail, and a lot of those voices in Israel come from the security
establishment who are people who have been steeped in these strategic
calculations, many of them are still hawks, you know, like Meir Dagan who
wants like -- he used to say his specialty was separating Arabs from their
This is a guy who has been supportive of diplomacy. He hasn`t given
final run on what he thinks of the deal, but some of his colleagues that
are former spy agency heads have said we like this deal.
HAYES: Interview with the head of Shin Bet with Jonathan Alter on the
Daily Beast actually Ayalon saying the same thing, this is a good deal.
This debate is going to get very intense, the kind of pressure that
talking about is going to bear on very few shoulders who are going to be
GHARIB: A lot of money and a lot of attacks. It`s going to be wild
HAYES: All right, Ali Gharib, thank you very much.
Still ahead, an experienced investigator says he was fired by the
Chicago`s police oversight body after he found fault with police shootings.
He joins me live next.
Then, the newly released dash cam footage from the day Sandra Bland
was arrested in Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.
SANDRA BLAND: Why am I being apprehended. You`re trying to give me a
ticket for a failure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said get out of the care.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am giving you a lawful order. I am going drag
you out of here.
BLAND: You`re threatening to drag me out of my own car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Ahead, the Chicago police investigator who says he was fired
because he refused to alter police reports to exonerate fellow officers.
First, 2015 is now officially on track to be the hottest year in the
recorded history of the planet, according to government data released this
It with that grim backdrop the Vatican held a sort of climate change
pep rally today with Pope Francis trying to ramp up pressure on the rest of
the world ahead of the upcoming UN climate conference in Paris. Among the
Americans on hand were New York`s mayor Bill de Blasio and Gerry Brown, the
governor of drought stricken California who used his address to rally the
leaders against the climate denial movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERRY BROWN, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: We have fierce opposition and
blind inertia. And that opposition is well financed, hundreds of millions
going into propaganda, into falsifying the scientific record, bamboozling
people of every country, television stations, political parties, think
tanks, PhD`s, university personnel. So, we have to fight that propaganda
and overcome the intertia and the tremendous opposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: A reminder you can find all our coverage of the Water Wars in
California at MSNBC.com/allinamerica and on Facebook hashtag
HAYES: And experience an accomplished police veteran who served on
Chicago`s independent police review authority, which examines police
shootings has been fired. And he says it`s because he would not change his
findings about six shootings by police which he considered to be
Lorenzo Davis, who will join me in a moment, served in the Chicago
Department for 23 years, retiring in 2004. But he was hired as an
investigator for Chicago`s Independent Police Review Authority, IPRA, in
2008. Two years later, he was promoted and began leading a team of five
investigators. But recently, when he refused orders to reverse findings in
police shooting cases that he found to be unjustified, he was fired.
In fact, according to a job performance evaluation obtained by WBEZ,
his superiors accused him of, quote, a clear bias against the police. And
called him the only supervisor at IPRA who resist making requests to
changes and directed by management in order to reflect the correct finding
with respect to OIS for officer
He was fired earlier this month and joining me now, Lorenzo Davis,
independent police review supervising investigator.
Mr. Davis, first, can you tell me a little about what kind of work
they do at IPRA? What was the kind of work you undertook when you were
LORENZO DAVIS, FRM. CHICAGO IPRA LEAD INVESTIGATOR; Well, IPRA we
investigate -- or when I was there we investigated complaints of excessive
Chicago police officers, also complaints of verbal abuse in particular,
complaints of racial bias and racial abusive language, and we investigated
police shootings or say when ever the police used their weapons, we
investigated all of those cases.
HAYES: Now, in the six shootings in question here, what happened?
You came to different conclusions than your bosses?
DAVIS: Well, I came to conclusions and then the bosses reviewed my
work and the work of my team and decided that they did not agree with our
conclusions. As it has been stated by many people that did the study since
the independent -- since the inception of Independent Police Review
Authority, there have been over 400 police involved shootings and none of
them up until perhaps two or three weeks ago have been determined to be not
You have 400 police involved shootings that were justified, and only
one shooting that occurred, according to the newspapers in 2011, that was
found to be not justified. But that was an off duty shooting where an
officer fired at the wrong car.
HAYES: So are you saying this essentially was rigged, that basically
supervisors at IPRA were determined to get a finding of justified and if
your team went out and did the leg work and found it to be unjustified and
came back with that, they would say no and overrule you?
DAVIS: Yes, that`s exactly what I am saying.
I am now being told that since I have shined a he light on IPRA and
their investigations of police involved shootings, they are now trying to
find some shootings that they can say are not justified.
But as we all know up until a couple of weeks ago more than 400 police
involved shootings were found to be justified.
HAYES: Do you, as apparently reportedly written in the review
produced by your supervisors, do you have an anti-police bias?
DAVIS: Of course not. I love the Chicago police department. I was
there for 23 years. I started as a patrol officer, and I finished my
career as a commander, commanding both units in patrol, in the detective
division, and in special operations.
I have numerous friends who are Chicago Police Officers. My brother
is a Chicago police sergeant, retired now, so I have no bias against
What my intention was was to somehow affect police policy, police
officers that I know who are in high positions in the police department
would like for
people like myself to hold the few, very few bad police officers
accountable for what they do. And that`s what I tried to do from within
the Independent Police Review Authority, and now I am going to try to do it
outside of the Independent Police Review Authority.
HAYES: All right, Lorenzo Davis, thank you for your time tonight,
sir. Appreciate it.
DAVIS: Thank you.
HAYES: Up next, new video showing the moment that police arrested
Sandra Bland in Texas.
HAYES: Today, authorities in Texas released dash cam video of the
arrest of Sandra Bland, the 28-year-old woman who died in her cell while in
police custody on July 13 in a case that the medical examiner ruled a
suicide, but which is being treated as a murder investigation, which is
standard procedure in such cases according to the Texas authorities.
Today law enforcement officials and elected officials from both
parties including Texas lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick as well as
supporters of the Bland family held a joint news conference saying a full
investigation would take place.
On July 10, Bland was pulled over for failing to signal a lane change.
But the encounter with the officer escalated.
Now, to be clear the video we`re about to show you is of the arrest
three days prior to her death in a jail cell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You okay?
BLAND: I`m waiting on you. This is your job. I`m waiting on you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You seem very irritated.
BLAND: I am. I really am. I feel like you stopped me what am I
getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were (inaudible)
so I move over and you stop me. So, yeah, I am a little irritated, but
that doesn`t stop you from giving me a ticket, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you done?
BLAND: You asked me what`s wrong and I told you. So now I`m done,
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
Do you mind putting out your cigarette please, if you don`t mind?
BLAND: I`m in my car. Why do I have put my cigarette
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you can step on out now.
BLAND: I don`t want to step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car. Get out of the car now, or I
going remove you.
BLAND: And I`m calling me lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going yank you out of here.
BLAND: OK, you`re going yank me out of my car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out.
BLAND: OK. All right. Let`s do this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said get out of the car.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You are opening my car door. You
opened my car door. So you`re threatening to drag me out of my own car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.
BLAND: And then you`re going assault me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will light you up. Get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Bland then voluntarily got out of her car, but the verbal
exchange with the officer continued to escalate. This video, recorded by a
bystander shows Bland after she was on the ground handcuffed.
She was arrested on a charge of assaulting a public servant.
Three days later, about 9:00 a.m., a female jailer found Bland hanging
in her cell by a plastic garbage bag. Authorities say that earlier that
same day she refused breakfast, but said, quote, I`m fine to a jailer
making normal rounds.
Now Sandra Bland was in Texas for a new job, the A&M University
system. The arresting officer has been placed on desk duty pending the
Joining me now by phone from Hempstead, Texas, MSNBC reporter Adam
And Adam, what is the current status of the investigation in terms of
her death? Her family from the beginning has said they just found it very
hard to believe, given where she was in her life, that she would take her
ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Right.
And the DA says that he is treating this as a murder investigation,
Chris. He says the family has made some valid arguments that she -- things
were looking up in her life. As you said, she had just gotten a job at
Prairieview A&M, and they don`t see any reason why she would have wanted to
take her own life.
Specifically, he wants to look at the bag, the garbage that she hung
herself with and make sure there are no other fingerprints on that bag
other than Sandra Bland`s, Chris.
HAYES: Now, Adam, you were taken inside that cell today. The police
say that they found her there and that she hanged herself using a plastic
REISS: Yeah, it`s actually celled -- this particular cell is called a
tank. It`s not a typical single person cell. As you can see in the video,
it`s for at least four people. So it`s a fairly large cell. It was left
as is after she died.
So, there`s some sandwiches in there, there are a couple of books that
may have been reading. It is a 15 x 20 cell, made for several prisoners.
Now, when she was brought on that Friday afternoon, the sheriff said that
she was argumentative and combative, which you can see in the video from
the dash cam at the traffic stop. And for that reason, they classified her
as a high risk inmate.
So, they put her in that cell by herself, so she would be protected
and also several woman in the cell across the hall so they would be
HAYES: Adam, a lot of people are watching that dash cam video and
feel that the officer in question escalated things. Obviously, she was not
happy with being
pulled over. Is that officer, independent of what happened three days
later, that stop that we see there, is that a trooper I believe it is, is
he being investigated?
REISS: Yeah, he has been placed on desk duty for two reasons, Chris.
One, violating procedure. Apparently, he didn`t tell her exactly how this
would go, the whole process of being pulled over, and also courtesy
I just want to tell you, Chris, I have watched the video several
times. It`s 52 minutes long. It actually starts out, he pulls over
another motorist, it`s a student, and gives that person a warning. He was
going to give her a warning. She might not have understood that she was
going to get a warning. And I listen to it. He says to her 15 times get
out of the car.
HAYES: MSNBC reporter Adam Reiss, thanks so much.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right
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