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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Tuesday, July 21st, 2015

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Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: July 21, 2015
Guest: Jeremy Peters, Nina Turner, Carmen Roe, Ladoris Cordell, Jonathan
Alter, Shibley Telhami

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC: And now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence
O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Good evening, Steve, thank you
very much.

KORNACKI: Sure.

O`DONNELL: According to Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump has become the Johnny
Knoxville of the Republican presidential campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER,
TRUMP ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: These politicians, they run and they run and
they win, and sometimes they lose and they keep running, that`s all they
do, is run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump has no policy proposals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he is the frontrunner.

TRUMP: You know how much money I give up by doing this?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Don`t be the world`s biggest
jackass.

TRUMP: And then I watched this idiot Lindsey Graham on television today.

GRAHAM: Stay in the race, just stop being a jackass.

TRUMP: And he calls me a jackass, he is a jackass.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Distraction with traction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republican presidential contenders desperately trying
to be heard above Donald Trump.

ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC: Senator Rand Paul really wants you to remember that he
is running for president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ohio Governor John Kasich becoming the 16th
Republican in the race.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: I have decided to run for president of the
United States.

(CHEERS)

JON STEWART, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: And then he appeared.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

STEWART: Donald Trump, the patron saint of topical comedians who are just
running out the clock.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Republican presidential candidates are changing their cellphone
numbers tonight after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Lindsey Graham, so, he calls me a jackass this morning. And I said
to myself, you know, it`s amazing, he doesn`t seem like a very bright guy,
OK?

He actually, probably seems to me not as bright, honestly as Rick Perry.
But today I got called a jackass by this guy, then I said to myself, hey,
didn`t this guy call me like four years ago? Yes, he called me four years
ago, three-four years ago.

Lindsey Graham, I didn`t even know who he was. He goes Mr. Trump, this is
Senator Lindsey Graham, I wonder if it would be possible for you to call
"Fox".

Because you know, until I run, I had that little thing with -- just for
fun, "Fox & Friends" are so great, Brian and Steve and Elizabeth, they`re
great people, right?

(APPLAUSE)

They`re great. And he wanted to know whether or not I could give him a
good reference on "Fox & Friends", OK? He wanted to know, would I do that?

And then of course he wanted to know whether or not he could come and see
me for some campaign contribution, and he gave me his number and I found
the card.

I wrote the number down, I don`t know if it`s the right number, let`s try
it, 202-

(LAUGHTER)

I don`t know, maybe, it`s you know, it`s three, four years ago, so maybe
it`s an old number, 202- -- so, I don`t know, give it a shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Unfortunately for Lindsey Graham, it was not an old number.
Donald Trump gave out Senator Graham`s current cellphone number and here is
why Donald Trump did that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: I don`t care if he drops out, stay in the race, just stop being a
jackass. You don`t have to run for president and be the world`s biggest
jackass.

That`s not your choices. I`m looking for him to being a responsible member
of the 16-person primary and not -- stop saying stuff like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the reaction you`re getting to calling him
jackass now repeatedly.

GRAHAM: Well, a lot of people are, you know, offended. The jackasses are
offended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: No comment tonight from Johnny Knoxville on the biggest jackass
in the world kind of thing. Donald Trump has been hit much harder though
by his local newspapers that know him so well.

The day after Donald Trump said John McCain was not a war hero, the cover
of "The New York Post", the conservative Republican "New York Post" which
has always been very friendly to Donald Trump, that newspaper said Donald
Trump is toast on its front page.

Rupert Murdoch, the conservative Republican owner of "The New York Post"
tweeted, "when is Donald Trump going to stop embarrassing his friends, let
alone the whole country?"

The next day, the "New York Daily News" in a headline called -- in a
headline called Donald Trump a "dirtbag".

"The Daily News" was not quoting anyone, that was the word that "The Daily
News" used in its official editorial assessment of Donald Trump.

And "The Daily News" put a note -- a note to Donald Trump on the front
page, just in case he didn`t read any further, it said, "Donald Trump, you
are an embarrassment to our entire nation."

Joining us now is Jonathan Alter, an Msnbc political analyst and columnist
for "The Daily Beast".

Jeremy Peters, political reporter for the "New York Times" covering the
2016 presidential race, he`s also an Msnbc political analyst and Kasie
Hunt, an Msnbc political correspondent.

Jonathan Alter, my favorite -- there`re so many favorite things about Trump
today that the idea of Donald Trump as booker for the morning show at "Fox
News", that`s something we didn`t know was in his portfolio, and he truly
revealed that today.

JONATHAN ALTER, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: Right, it`s all amusing, and
you know, I think those of us who like politics as sports are having a good
time at all of this.

But the Republican Party, they are reaping what they sowed. You know, in
2012, when he was talking this birther nonsense about Barack Obama, you
didn`t see those tabloid headlines from Republican newspaper providers
trying to, you know, drive them off the stage.

You didn`t see other Republican candidates saying, you know, this shouldn`t
be said about the president, it`s not true. Only now, when he is immersed
within the Republican Party, do we see them trying to ostracize him.

And it tells us something about what`s happened to the grand old party, you
know, what was once one of America`s great political parties, this is how
long it`s become, you know, a comic opera.

O`DONNELL: And Kasie Hunt, you were out there with John Kasich today, did
the campaigns like the Kasich campaign check the Trump schedule and looked
at exactly what time he is doing what and decide, OK, let`s wait until he`s
off the stage?

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lawrence, I don`t think anybody
in the Republican Party knows what to do about Donald Trump. I think
everybody thought this was going to be a bubble that was going to pop up
and fade away.

It`s possible it still will, it`s possible we haven`t seen all the
ramifications of those McCain comments yet in the polls.

But the reality is, this race more than any Republican race in recent
memory has become a competition for earned media coverage.

All of these guys at the bottom of the PAC are fighting hard to get on to
this debate stage, they`re all down, grouped around 3, 4, 5 percent in the
polls.

John Kasich, the governor of this huge swing state is one of them, and
that`s why Donald Trump sucking up this oxygen matters so much.

It`s such a unique situation, is -- even compared to 2012 when you had one
after the other of these sort of lower-tiered candidates while Romney was
able to float above the fray.

That is not what is going on here.

O`DONNELL: Jeremy Peters, we saw an editorial in the biggest newspaper in
Iowa, against Trump now we have an editorial in New Hampshire, the "Union
Leader".

Conservative newspaper there, editorializing against Trump based on what he
said about John McCain, and you`ve got these other candidates who are just
desperately trying to be heard.

But as long as Trump is out there, like this -- and as long as he is
picking up all these enemies in the media, at some point, does there start
to be a gravitational pull down in those poll numbers?

JEREMY PETERS, POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: I think it`s only a
matter of time.

I think that if you look at the most recent poll that Trump has been
touting, this one -- this "Washington Post" poll that showed him at number
one, well ahead of his other rivals.

There was only a period of about 24 hours when they were conducting that
poll that happened after he said these incredibly outrageous and offensive
things about John McCain.

So, we haven`t seen any polling that has really reflected the ramifications
of those comments. So, you know, I think everybody needs to kind of take a
deep breath and pause here and remember that he`s really only been at the
top of the polls for a very short period of time.

And his rise in the polls coincides with the rise of a number of other very
short-lived candidates from the 2012 cycle.

Let`s not forget, a year ago -- I`m sorry, four years ago at this point in
July of 2011, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry and Sarah Palin were in the top
five of the polls.

So, we`ve got a long way to go before this really shakes out.

O`DONNELL: And he spoke about the deal on nuclear arms with Iran today.
Let`s listen to some -- you know, it`s tricky when you try to cut the
Donald Trump soundbites because it`s so incoherent and there`re so many
things that are attached to them, barnacles attached to them.

But this is the clearest thing we could get out of what he was saying about
the deal with Iran on nuclear weapons. Let`s listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Nuclear is so powerful. My uncle explained that to me many years
ago, the power and that was 35 years ago. He would explain the power of
what`s going to happen, and he was right.

Who would have thought?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Who would have thought, Jonathon, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki
that nuclear was really powerful? That`s what he was saying today, he
learned this 35 years ago.

ALTER: The -- his people don`t care. You know, you can go back to the
`80s, he was on the cover of one of Clay Folker`s magazine holding a dove,
and he was talking about how he would negotiate with the Soviet Union.

There are an awful lot of Republican primary voters who -- well, think that
he can do a better job in the room with the Iranians than John Kerry.

That`s going to be something that will work for him. This guy in some way
is gaffe-prone with his base.

So, he will go down some in the polls, but I`d really be surprised if he
goes down, you know, into the low single digits.

I think he`s got a base roughly 10 percent, they will stick with him
through thick or thin, they don`t care what comes out of his mouth, they
like most of it.

They blame this on John McCain, this particular flap because he called them
Trump`s followers, "crazies", they took that personally, so they`re not
going to desert Trump over this.

And you`re going to have him be a kind of festering, comic wound in the
body politic all the way to the Republican convention. He will negotiate
for a primetime speaking role at that Republican convention a year from
now.

If the Republicans are lucky, he won`t run as an independent, if he does,
Hillary Clinton is a dead cinch to be the next president.

O`DONNELL: And --

PETERS: Can I just -- can I just --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Jeremy --

PETERS: Say one thing on that point, I think that, you know, all of that
is true. However, when you talk to people who like Donald Trump, who are
supporting him right now, they use the same kind of language that they use
to describe people like Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin and Herman Cain, and
we all know what happened to them.

And yes, I think, he is a guilty pleasure, he`s a guilty pleasure for the
media that loves covering the spectacle of it, he`s also a guilty pleasure
for voters.

Because right now, a lot of restive conservatives want to see somebody who
is an anti-politician who will shake up the system and, you know, tell it
like it is.

But there are people who would -- who would fit that mold, who come along
in conservative politics for five years now and they all crash and burn.

ALTER: But they don`t have any money, it`s a big difference. Well, you
know, usually if they -- if -- when your moment passes, you`re Herman Cain
or you`re Newt Gingrich and you don`t have a big rich background anymore,
you have to drop out --

PETERS: But they all know --

(CROSSTALK)

ALTER: Can`t keep going --

PETERS: Newt Gingrich had a very wealthy background --

ALTER: Yes, but he --

(CROSSTALK)

PETERS: Herman Cain had money behind him --

ALTER: OK --

PETERS: As well --

ALTER: So, but even he --

HUNT: You know what? Donald Trump --

ALTER: Couldn`t go forever --

HUNT: First of all --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Kasie --

HUNT: Donald Trump -- Donald Trump has not shown yet that he is willing to
really put all of the money that he has on --

ALTER: That`s true --

HUNT: The line. He doesn`t spend as much as he -- as he might be able to.
Second of all, you talked about whether or not he was gaffe-prone.

In many ways, the gaffes that we in the national media have been focusing
on aren`t necessarily the ones that are going to matter.

One of the stories that I think is important that flew under the radar a
little bit in Iowa over the weekend is the section of the speech where
Donald Trump lost this religious audience, talking about how he couldn`t
keep his marriages together.

And you know, referencing his own, not being perfect -- I was a good
father, but you know what? I just worked all the time.

O`DONNELL: Right --

HUNT: That did not go over, he lost the room, and if you read down into --

ALTER: Yes --

HUNT: Some of that reporting, you could tell he knew that.

O`DONNELL: He`s not going to --

(CROSSTALK)

PETERS: Communion, Kasie, remember --

HUNT: He --

PETERS: The other -- the other -- the other comment in there that kind of
made a lot of people in the room blunt is when he talked about the holy
communion as drinking his little wine and eating that little cracker.

HUNT: Right --

PETERS: So it was very --

O`DONNELL: You know, I think --

PETERS: It was very --

HUNT: Yes, I go to church sometimes --

O`DONNELL: I think you have --

HUNT: And I drink a little bit of wine.

O`DONNELL: I think we have that clip about Trump and his religious
practices and we will -- we will show it after the break. We`re going to
take a break here.

We`re also coming up, have just released dash cam video of the arrest of
Sandra Bland in Texas that led to her tragic death in a jail cell three
days later. That`s coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I`m supposed to be nice. I`m trying to be nice, you know, I`m
working hard to be nice. But every time I turn on -- I have -- I have some
guy that is hitting me, like hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Up next, Donald Trump goes to communion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASICH: I am here to ask you for your prayers, for your support, for your
efforts because I have decided to run for president of the United States.

(CHEERS)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: While Ohio Governor John Kasich was saying that, Donald Trump
was in South Carolina saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I was coming up and I see your senator -- what a stiff, what a
stiff. Lindsey Graham. By the way, he`s registered zero in the polls,
zero.

He`s on television all the time -- the reason they`re hitting me often is,
when you register zero in the poll -- what the hell, they have nothing to
lose, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Today, Ohio Governor John Kasich was the big victim of the
Trump noise machine for the Republican presidential campaign.

Kasich`s announcement had to compete with Donald Trump giving out Lindsey
Graham`s phone number and doing his insult comedy routine about Republican
presidential candidates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I see Rick Perry the other day, and he`s so -- you know, he`s doing
very poorly in the polls, he put glasses on, so people will think he`s
smart.

(LAUGHTER)

And it just doesn`t work. You know, people can see through the glasses. I
tweeted that Rick Perry should have to have an IQ test before getting on
the debate stage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now, Nina Turner, the former State Senator from
Ohio. Nina Turner, you were at John Kasich`s announcement today. Have you
switched parties?

(LAUGHTER)

NINA TURNER, FORMER STATE SENATOR: I was, Lawrence, please don`t get that
rumor started out there. Yes, I was there to listen to the governor and
also to provide some commentary for the Democratic Party.

It was a sight to see. There were a lot of folks there, wall to wall, and
it was the governor doing what the governor does best.

And I do want to caution, Lawrence, I mean even though I know some of the
national media has written off the governor, we got to remember that
Governor Kasich is the governor of the greatest swing state in the -- in
the nation.

I say that because I live here and because factually it is true that no
Republican has ever won the presidency without the great state of Ohio.

The governor is a believer, but at the same time, what the governor talked
about in his speech today from my vantage point of serving in the
legislature while he was -- is still governor.

I have not seen the connection between what he said in his speech and what
his policies have brought forth.

O`DONNELL: Nina Turner, since you`ve watched Governor Kasich campaign more
than any of us have, what is your assessment of how -- what`s your guess
about how he`s going to do in this Republican field of candidates?

TURNER: He will be seen very much nationally as a moderate, but the
governor is a conservative.

He has said as much, when you look at his policies here in the state of
Ohio, certainly we find them to be very conservative, but can be --

O`DONNELL: So that means that -- that would indicate he will do well,
since the -- since in the primary, conservatives are rewarded, right?

TURNER: Not on the national stage though, Lawrence, he will not. I mean,
this is the governor that did expand Medicaid, which you know, he`s having
some problem with the Republican base when it comes to that.

So he will not be seen as a conservative on the national stage. And that
is why I caution though, Democrats not to get too excited and write off the
governor just because he only has 2 percent in the polls.

He is a believer and he articulates that in a way that make people feel
what he`s saying.

O`DONNELL: Kasie Hunt, does the Kasich campaign have a strategy that they
can describe of how he goes from single digits up to where he`s going to
need to be to be competitive?

HUNT: Well, a couple of things, Lawrence, first of all, it`s pretty
obvious that the stand he`s going to take is in New Hampshire. But you
know, he`s not going to be alone in that.

He`s going to run into Jeb Bush, he`s going to run into Chris Christie,
there`s a pretty long list of substantial candidates who are going to live
or die in New Hampshire.

That said, it`s the state that has taken in the past to politicians who
have a style like John Kasich, who is -- you know, has this -- people
describe him as prickly, you know, he has this temper.

But he also has this sort of wit and charm about him that can make him very
appealing in a one-on-one situation.

The other thing I will say is that, Jeb Bush`s campaign is paying very
close attention to what John Kasich is doing.

I learned that today over the course of several interactions with aides in
both the Kasich and the Jeb Bush camps.

And I think Kasich`s people will privately say that they do need Jeb Bush
to make a major mistake for him to be able to rise to the top of this PAC.

But they don`t think that that`s out of the realm of possibility, and
you`ll remember what Bush said on the rock, I think he`s already shown that
it is a possibility.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan, should Jeb Bush be more worried about Donald Trump or
John Kasich?

ALTER: John Kasich. I mean Donald Trump is not a serious candidate for
this nomination. John Kasich, if he were to get anything going, and you
know, I`ve known him for a long time, he`s a very smart, capable guy.

Could be a real threat to Jeb Bush for the nomination and a particular
threat to Hillary Clinton, should John Kasich somehow defy the odds and get
that Republican nomination.

O`DONNELL: And he`s -- it seems like he`s an obvious vice presidential
selection if he doesn`t get the nomination --

ALTER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: I mean, really top of that --

ALTER: Yes --

TURNER: But --

ALTER: The same --

TURNER: Lawrence --

ALTER: With Sherrod Brown is on the Democratic side, the senator --

O`DONNELL: Because of --

ALTER: Democratic Senator from Ohio is likely, I think to go on the ticket
with Hillary Clinton.

O`DONNELL: Nina Turner, go ahead.

TURNER: But Lawrence, I do want to say, although I agree with everything
Jonathan had to say, but Jonathan, you and I both know Governor Kasich is
nobody`s number two.

I could not see the governor --

ALTER: Yes, he won`t turn it down though --

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: In that way, right --

ALTER: You know, they always say they`re going to turn it down, but then
they take it --

O`DONNELL: Right, yes --

TURNER: Right --

ALTER: So, he`ll go on that ticket --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

TURNER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Donald Trump said today about giving money
and how he has given money as a contributor to campaigns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Part of the problem we have -- see with me, I don`t need anybody`s
money. Nobody has to give to me, people are sending me money anyway, so
you don`t have to bother, please.

Don`t bother, don`t give me any, I don`t need money. I`m doing it myself.
So, when people come up to me and they say, Mr. Trump, I`d like you to do
this, which is good for him but bad for the country, I will say I`m sorry,
I can`t do it folks, I`m not doing it, I`m only doing the right thing.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Kasie Hunt, it seems like the -- some of the two biggest appeal
points of Donald Trump as a candidate is that they think -- people think he
can`t be bought.

And then also, there is the immigration issue. That`s the issue he has hit
harder than any other. And so, certainly, a significant amount of his
polling bump has to do with the way he talks about the Mexican border.

HUNT: Well, Lawrence, look, there is a populous sentiment in the
Republican Party right now that Trump is very clearly tapping into.

People are still feeling like the recession is something that`s difficult
to deal with. They feel like, after a certain extent, this system is
rigged, you`re seeing that with your favorite politician on the Democratic
side.

Elizabeth Warren, she taps into that as well, it`s not something that`s
limited to the Democratic Party, and Trump has clearly made people feel
that way.

And I will say, when you talk to voters who go see Donald Trump, they find
his success attractive.

People want to see in their president somebody who is able to succeed and
Trump has proved that in a certain way that`s clearly touched a nerve.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan, what about the immigration issue, I mean, that`s
clearly the thing that drove his number in the first place. What do
Republican candidates -- how do they respond to that?

ALTER: You know, it`s -- they`re in a tough position, because a lot of
them are trying to get votes themselves by being super tough on
immigration.

And so you saw several of them before the McCain flap actually muting(ph)
Donald Trump on immigration.

So, it`s going to be fascinating in the August 6th debate to see whether on
top of, you know, what will then be old news on John McCain.

Whether some of these other candidates are willing to take Trump on in
immigration. I think they won`t, and if they don`t, he could dominate in
that portion of the debate which is very important to Republican primary
voters.

O`DONNELL: Nina Turner, Rand Paul got a buzz, saw it today and he took --
and he put it on the tax code, incredible stunt to try to get attention now
that Trump is out there.

Is John Kasich going to try -- is he the kind of candidate who is going to
look for, you know, zany stunts to get attention in the Trump noise
machine?

TURNER: I seriously doubt that, Lawrence. I mean, all of the Republican
candidates seem pretty desperate because the Donald is dominating.

And you know, the Republicans can run, but they cannot hide. When Jonathan
outlined that, you know, when this was going on and Mr. Trump was hitting
the president about his birth certificate and most Republicans didn`t say a
mumbling word, now he is --

O`DONNELL: Right --

TURNER: Out there with them, so, he is of their own creation and they are
going to have to deal with it. But definitely, I do not see Governor
Kasich going as far as Senator Rand Paul has gone today.

O`DONNELL: Nina Turner and Kasie Hunt, thanks for joining us tonight.

HUNT: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, Texas police released the dash cam video of the
arrest of a woman who was later found dead in a jail cell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST OF "LAST WORD" PROGRAM: Tonight the Texas
department of public safety released dash cam video showing the arrest of
28-year-old Sandra Bland. Three days after her arrest, Sandra Bland was
found dead in the jail cell.

An autopsy ruled her death, "A suicide by asphyxiation." But the Waller
County District Attorney is handling the case now as a homicide
investigation based on procedure. Here is that dash cam video, which shows
the reason why Sandra Bland was pulled over.

It is something that most American drivers do every day. Many may not know
that, that is against the law anywhere. She changed lanes, you saw her
there, change lanes on a low-traffic road without signaling. In this
video, that has not been edited. This is a portion of the video. It is a
52-minute video in full.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN ENCINIA, TEXAS DPS OFFICER: Hello ma`am. Need to take of your time.
The reason for stop is you failed to signal for lane change. Do you have
your driver`s license and insurance with you? OK, ma`am. Are you OK?

SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN HER CELL AT THE WALLER COUNTY JAIL: I am
waiting on you. This is your job. I am waiting on you. Whatever you
wanted me to do.

OFFICER ENCINIA: You seem very irritated?

BLAND: I am. I really am. I moved over and you stop me -- So, I moved
over and you stopped me. So, yes, I am a little irritated but that does
not stop you from giving me a ticket.

OFFICER ENCINIA: All right. Are you done?

BLAND: You asked me what was wrong and I told you.

OFFICER ENCINIA: OK.

BLAND: So, now I am done, yeah.

OFFICER ENCINIA: OK. Do you mind putting out your cigarette, please?

BLAND: I am in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?

OFFICER ENCINIA: Well, you can step out now.

BLAND: I do not have to step out of my car.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.

BLAND: No. You do not --

OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.

BLAND: No. You do not have the right.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out of the car.

BLAND: You do not have the right to that.

OFFICER ENCINIA: I do have the right. Now, step out or I will remove you.

BLAND: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself --

OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out or I will remove you.

BLAND: I am getting removed for a failure to signal?

OFFICER ENCINIA: Step out or I will remove you. I am giving you a lawful
order. Get out of the car now or I am going to remove you.

BLAND: I am calling my lawyer .

OFFICER ENCINIA: I am going to yank you out of here.

BLAND: OK. You are going to yank me out of my car.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out.

BLAND: OK. All right. OK. Let us do this.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Yes. You are going to.

BLAND: Do not touch me.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car.

BLAND: Do not touch me. I am not under arrest. You do not have the right
to take me.

OFFICER ENCINIA: You are under arrest.

BLAND: I am under arrest for what?

OFFICER ENCINIA: -- send another unit. Get out of the car. Get out of
the car, now!

BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You are trying to give me a ticket for
a failure --

OFFICER ENCINIA: I said get out of the car.

BLAND: Why am I being apprehended?

OFFICER ENCINIA: I am giving you a lawful order.

BLAND: You opened my car door.

OFFICER ENCINIA: I am going to drag you out of here.

BLAND: So, you are going to drag me out of my own car.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get out!

BLAND: Wow!

OFFICER ENCINIA: Now!

BLAND: Wow!

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car.

BLAND: Arrested for a failure to signal. You are doing all of this for a
failure to signal.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get over there.

BLAND: Right. Yes, let us take this to court.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Go ahead.

BLAND: For failure to signal. Yes. For a failure to signal. Let us do
it.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get off the phone.

BLAND: I have the right for it. It is my property.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Put your phone down.

BLAND: Sir.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Put your phone down, right now. Put your phone down. I
gave you a lawful order.

BLAND: Turn around.

OFFICER ENCINIA: I am giving you a lawful order.

BLAND: Why am I being arrested? Why will you not tell me that part?

OFFICER ENCINIA: I am giving you a lawful order. Turn around.

BLAND: Why will you not tell me what is going on?

OFFICER ENCINIA: You are not complying.

BLAND: I am not complying because you just pulled me out of the car.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Turn around.

BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE WORD) kidding me? This is some (EXPLETIVE
WORD).

OFFICER ENCINIA: Put your hand behind your back.

BLAND: (EXPLETIVE WORD) straight. (EXPLETIVE WORD) that is all it is.
(EXPLETIVE WORD) scared.

OFFICER ENCINIA: If you would just listen --

BLAND: I was trying to (EXPLETIVE WORD). Whatever.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Come on over here.

BLAND: You are (EXPLETIVE WORD) about to break my wrist. Can you stop.
Stop! Stop.

OFFICER ENCINIA: Stop, now! Stop it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE OFFICER: Stop resisting, ma`am.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Up next, more on the arrest and death of Sandra Bland.

And, later, President Obama makes his case for the Iran deal to veterans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER ENCINIA: Get out of the car.

BLAND: Do not touch me. I am not under arrest. You do not have the right
to take me.

OFFICER ENCINIA: You are under arrest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Carmen Roe, an attorney in Houston, Texas and
Ladoris Cordell, a retired judge and former police auditor. Carmen Roe, I
am struck by that moment on the video when the first time we hear the
officer say, "You are under arrest."

At that point, did you see anything on the video that was a legitimate
grounds for arrest? She is sitting in the car, and she is smoking a
cigarette. And, he tells her to put out the cigarette and she does not.
And, we have, you know, shortly after that him saying, "You are under
arrest."

CARMEN ROE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. I mean there was no basis
for the arrest at that time. And, in fact, the purpose of the traffic stop
had ended. And, so, any further detention at that time would have been an
unlawful and exceeded the scope of the original, stop which was simply a
traffic violation.

O`DONNELL: And, so, in your view, there is the possibility under Texas law
of false arrest there at that moment?

ROE: Well, unfortunately not, because in Texas, the moment that he said
she was under arrest, she was required to acquiesce to his show of
authority. So, even though that arrest was unlawful and even though his
detention was unlawful, once he told her she was under arrest, she had to
comply, and if she did not she was technically committing the offense of
resisting arrest.

O`DONNELL: The police report that he wrote leaves out -- it starts after,
in fact, he announced the arrest. It says, "I have Bland exit the vehicle
to further conduct a safe traffic investigation." And, Ladoris Cordell, if
he starts the police report with her exiting the vehicle, he has left out
his first announcement of her being arrested. So, this is an arrest report
that does not accurately describe the arrest.

LADORIS CORDELL, FORMER SAN JOSE POLICE AUDITOR: That is correct,
Lawrence. You know, this dash cam video should be required viewing for
every police academy in the country. It is a classic example of how a law
enforcement officer let a minor traffic stop get totally out of control.

In less than 2 minutes, fewer than 2 minutes, this stop went from a routine
traffic stop to hands-on, to pointing a taser and to a finally a takedown
by the use of force. And, the issue really is ordering her out of the car.
The detention for the traffic stop was fine.

But, when the officer ordered her out of the car, the only way he could do
that is if he had a reasonable suspicion that she was involved in criminal
activity, which she did not or if he had a concern for officer safety, like
she might be armed. He did not or that she were perhaps under the
influence of alcohol, which he had no such belief.

So, the only reason he ordered her out of the car and this is critical to
this entire incident was because, she gave him two answers to two questions
that he asked, answers he did not like. The first one, are you OK? You
seemed irritated. So, she responded.

The second was a question, not an order. Do you mind, or would you mind
putting out the cigarette, and she declined to do so. Based on that, he
ordered her out of the car and in my view that was entirely unlawful,
improper. So, that everything that happened thereafter was unlawful.

O`DONNELL: I want to listen to something he said. The officer -- Officer
Encinia made a phone call while they were waiting for the car to be towed
away after she had been removed from the scene. He made a phone call to a
superior. And, we hear on this phone call him saying that he was just
trying to get her out of the car to sign something apparently. Let us
listen to this part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER ENCINIA: We are in the middle of a traffic stop. And, the traffic
stop was not completed. I was trying to get her out to sign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Carmen Roe, "I was trying to get her out over to sign." What
could he possibly mean by that?

ROE: You know, the most troubling thing about this video, in my opinion,
is that conversation inside the patrol car. At best it is disingenuous, at
worst it is lying about the facts that we have seen unfold.

I mean at the end of the day, he is justifying the reason he got her out of
the car. He is justifying the prolonged detention that he made in this
case, and he is trying to justify the initial arrest, which as your other
guest has said was simply baseless at that time.

O`DONNELL: And, Ladoris Cordell, this is all ultimately as horrifying as
it is to watch. It is ultimately nothing compared to what ends up
happening in that jail cell. And, what are we -- what do you expect to be
able to find out about that, given what with we know about the
investigation, so far?

CORDELL: Well, first of all, we hope that there are cameras in the jail.
And, if there is any video, we can find out more. It is clear to me,
though, that this stop really was the genesis. This began the downhill
fall to the death of Sandra Bland.

And, it is just, to me, appalling and sad. We have an officer, who is
basically in my view falsified a police report. We have officers talking
loudly, so it can be recorded, falsifying the events that happened. Well,
fortunately, there is a dash cam and we can see it. You know, finally
officers are taught that when you deal with someone who is attitude --

O`DONNELL: I just want to -- Ladoris, I just want the audience to know
what we are showing now is video of the jail, basically, the hallway there
was monitored by video but not the jail cell. And, what we saw was the
reactions to them discovering her dead body in the jail cell, but go ahead.
I am sorry. Finish your thought.

CORDELL: Sure. Based on that, there clearly needs to be a change of
policy and some cameras should be aimed into the cells. But, finally,
officers are taught in the academy to rise above people who have bad
attitudes.

Now, Sandra did not have a positive attitude toward that officer, but that
is not a crime. And officers are taught to rise above it, to not be
provoked. And, what this officer should have done. She gave answers. He
should have issued her a ticket and she would have gone on her way and
sadly that did not happen.

O`DONNELL: Carmen Roe and Ladoris Cordell, thank you for joining us,
tonight. Thank you.

A programming note. We will be joined tomorrow by Sandra Bland`s sister,
Sharon and her lawyer. Up next, a teenager uses a drone to fire a gun.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: The FAA, the ATF and local police in Connecticut are
investigating the teenager who posted this video on you tube.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUN FIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The video was posted by an 18-year-old, who is now under
investigation, but his father told NBC News that neither he or his son
violated any laws and that he worked on the project with a professor at a
local Connecticut University.

State police say the teenager did not break state law, but federal agents
are investigating how the equipment was built and if the device is against
federal laws and regulations, if it is against the law to fire a gun from a
drone.

Coming up, President Obama takes his case for the deal with Iran to
veterans of foreign wars.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: And, now religion according to Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, when we go to church
and when I drink my little wine, which is about the only wine I drink and
have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness.

And I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed. OK? But, you
know, to me that is important that I do that. But in terms of officially -
- see, I could say absolutely at everybody. I do not think in terms of
that. I think in terms of let us go on and let us make it right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Up next, an Israeli security official says the Iran deal is
good for Israel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Today, Defense Secretary Ash Carter went to Jerusalem to meet
with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the Iran Nuclear
Agreement. Tomorrow, Secretary of State John Kerry will hold close
briefings on Capitol Hill.

And, on Thursday, Secretary Kerry will testify to the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee. Also, today, the White House launched a dedicated
Twitter page, the Iran Deal. Get the facts on the Iran Deal. Tweet us
your questions and we will set the record straight. And, President Obama
responded to critics of the deal in a speech to the veterans of foreign
wars convention in Pittsburgh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So, the
same politicians and pundits that are so quick to reject the possibility of
a diplomatic solution to Iran`s nuclear program are the same folks, who are
so quick to go to war in Iraq and said it would take a few months.

And, we know the consequences of that choice and what it costs us in blood
and treasure. I believe there is a smarter and more responsible way to
protect our national security, and that is what we are doing.

Instead of dismissing the rest of the world and going it alone, we have
done the hard and patient work of uniting the international community to
meet a common threat. And, instead of chest beating, that rejects even the
idea of talking to our adversaries, which sometimes sounds good in sound
bytes but accomplishes nothing.

We are seeing that strong and principle diplomacy can give hope of actually
resolving a problem peacefully. Instead of rushing into another conflict,
I believe that sending our sons and daughters in the harm`s way must always
be a last resort and that before we put their lives on the line, we should
exhaust every alternative. That is what we owe our troops. That is
strength and that is American leadership.

(AUDIENCE CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Back with us, Jonathan Alter, "Daily Beast" Columnist and MSNBC
Political Analyst. Also with us is Shibley Telhami, a Senior Fellow at the
Brookings Institution and a professor at the University of Maryland.

Jonathan, I want to read a, quote, you have today in this great piece. You
have written about this from a former head of Israeli Security, who said,
"When it comes to Iran`s nuclear capability, this deal is the best option.
Israelis are failing to distinguish between reducing Iran`s nuclear
capabilities and Iran being the biggest devil in the Middle East."

JONATHAN ALTER, "DAILY BEAST" COLUMNIST AND MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: So,
this is a man named, Ami Ayalon, who is head of Shin Bet, which is their
internal security service in Israel. He is also a former chief of the
Israeli Navy. He reeled off about 10 other former heads of Mosaad, former
defense ministers, other people who agree with him on this basic logical
analysis.

And, it goes like this. Right now, Iran is two months away from a nuclear
bomb. Under this deal, they will be a year away. The difference, 10
months is not insignificant if you were in intelligence. Who are we to
bomb Iran -- we can set back there program according to Israeli
intelligence by about two to four years, create a whole lot of other
problems, as the president indicated by going to war.

But, actually, only set back there program by a fifth as much as the terms
of this deal do. So, if you are looking at this in terms of the
existential threat to Israel, the ability of Iran to destroy the state of
Israel with a nuclear weapon. This deal, even though there are some flaws
in it, is clearly in the international interest of Israel. So, everything,
you hear from Netanyahu and the labor politicians to the contrary, the guys
who actually had been in charge of Israel`s security over the last 25 years
think this is unbalanced, A deal worth doing.

O`DONNELL: Shibley Telhami, how do you see this deal as it relates to
Israel`s security?

SHIBLEY TELHAMI, SENIOR FELLOW AT BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, first of
all, I think that, you know, Mr. Ayalon is not the only one who has
disagreed with the Prime Minister on this one. But, if you look at it just
historically, no one has been able to make the case that you can end Iran`s
nuclear potential through military means. And, so, even if the Israel got
started it, the most they can do is delay it by some time. And, then they
can find themselves --

O`DONNELL: But, why can they -- Shibley, why cannot they just keep -- I
mean if you can bomb it and bomb in to, you know, a breakdown mode, why
cannot you just a couple of years later, bomb it again, and just keep
bombing it forever.

TELHAMI: And then you can imagine what a country like Israel finds itself
at war with a Persian civilization, unifying all Iranians, not just the
clerics and the Ayatollahs against -- Never fought against Iran
historically. This animosity is not a war animosity.

So, if they find themselves engaged in the long term, they can win a round
or two. How often can you sustain it? At some point, Iran will break
through, have nuclear weapons, but then it will be a country at war with
Israel. That is not good for Israel.

And, second, if Israel goes to war and the U.S. is soon to be dragged in to
that war as might happen inevitably, then the Israeli-American relationship
will also be in jeopardy, because the U.S. will be seem to have been
dragged in to a war that is probably endless with Iran just like we have
witnessed in the Iraq wars that president has said.

So, I think the reality of it is, it is not a choice between sanctions and
disagreement. I think it was ultimately between war and disagreement,
because the president -- when the president went in to full diplomacy,
particularly later in the first administration to try to reach an
agreement, it was really as a consequence of the Israeli Prime Minister
trying to show that his threat to bomb Iran was really credible.

They went to a great extent to invest a lot of money to persuade a
suspicious administration that did not take the threat seriously. They
thought Israel was bluffing and ultimately in 2012, during the election
year, many members of the Obama Administration came to believe that in fact
Israel could attack and the U.S. would find itself dragged into war.

The president was not going to allow the United States to be dragged into
war. This is a president that got elected by taking positions against war,
not wanting to take them to another war in the Middle East. So, it was
ironically this success of the Israeli Prime Minister to persuade the U.S.
that Israel was serious about possibly attacking that pushed the president
into this diplomacy to prevent war. And, so in some ways, he finds himself
a good example of be careful what you wish for.

O`DONNELL: We are just about out of time. Jonathan Alter, John Kerry`s
testimony coming up this week, how do you expect that to go on this one?

ALTER: Well, I think he is going to make the point he has been making all
along. What is the alternative? And, the critics do not have one.
Essentially, they --

O`DONNELL: They pretend you can continue the sanctions.

ALTER: No. You cannot. The sanctions are absolutely going to collapse if
this deal is overturned. And, then we will have no eyes on Iraq`s nuclear
program and we will be heading toward worst of both worlds. No alternative
in this deal right now.

O`DONNELL: Jonathan Alter gets tonight`s "Last Word." Jonathan, thank you
very much. Shibley Telhami, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I
really appreciate it. Chris Hayes is up next.

END

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