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The Ed Show for Friday, July 24th, 2015

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Date: July 24, 2015
Guest: Brad Woodhouse, Matthew Miller, Mike Papantonio, Carrie Sheffield,
John Garamendi, Mitch Ceasar

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota.

Let`s get to work.


SCHULTZ: Tonight, political problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New concerns for Hillary Clinton surrounding her e-mail

HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to say a word about
what`s in the news today. There have been a lot of inaccuracies. Maybe
the heat is getting to everybody.

SCHULTZ: Plus, still going.

I`m leading in all of the polls by a lot. I`m sacrificing a tremendous
amount to do this.

SCHULTZ: And out with the old.

Medicare program that`s not going to be around 30 years from now.

It is not sustainable. We need to figure out a way to phase out this
program for others.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching.
Federal officials are asking for an investigation over the use of Hillary
Clinton`s private e-mail server. Officials have asked the justice
department to open an investigation into whether classified information was
mishandled in connection with the personal e-mail account. The request was
submitted by two inspectors general. This morning the justice department
described the referral as criminal in nature. Later in the day they
changed their statement, saying the investigation was not criminal.

The New York Times first reported the story. They broke it. They reported
a memo sent from an inspector general last month assessed Clinton`s private
e-mail account contained "Hundreds of potentially classified e-mails."

The Wall Street Journal reports a government review found Clinton sent at
least four e-mails from her personal account containing classified
information. The justice department hasn`t decided if it will open the
investigation. It is not clear if any of the e-mails were marked
classified when Clinton sent or received them.

Earlier today Hillary Clinton addressed the report.


CLINTON: I want to say a word about what`s in the news today. And it`s
because there have been a lot of inaccuracies, as Congressman Cummings made
clear this morning. Maybe the heat is getting to everybody. We all have a
responsibility to get this right. I have released 55,000 pages of e-mails.
I have said repeatedly that I will answer questions before the house
committee. We are all accountable to the American people to get the facts
right. And I will do my part.


SCHULTZ: In the past Hillary Clinton has denied e-mailing classified


CLINTON: I did not e-mail any classified material to anyone on my e-mail.
There is no classified material. So I`m certainly well aware of the
classification requirements and did not send classified material.


SCHULTZ: To be fair, Hillary Clinton may not have known at the time some
e-mails were classified. The New York Times had an issue a correction on
their story after complaints from the Clinton campaign. The times
correction said an earlier version of the article "Misstated a referral to
the justice department regarding Hillary Clinton`s personal e-mail account.
The referral addressed the potential compromise of classified information
in connection with that personal e-mail account. It did not specifically
request an investigation into Mrs. Clinton."

The Clinton campaign released a statement saying contrary to the initial
story which has already been significantly revised she followed appropriate
practices in dealing with classified materials, as has been reported on
multiple occasion, any released e-mails deemed classified by the
administration have been done so after the fact and not at the time they
were transmitted.

Earlier today New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt who broke the story
pushed back on that statement.


substantial change we made in (inaudible). I don`t think it was. I think
it was -- I think it sort of refocused the lead of the story and such. It
was very strong. They came and it`s very strong and very late and very
forcefully. And it was certainly something they jumped on much harder than
back in March when the initial story came out, about the account. That
pushback was very different and far more muted.


SCHULTZ: This news comes at the bad time for Hillary Clinton. The new
Quinnipiac poll shows voters in three key states, Iowa, Virginia and
Colorado do not trust Hillary Clinton. The same poll shows her losing to
Republicans in all three of those key swing states. So is this going to be
something real? Something substantive? Or just going to end up being
another pile on moment by conservatives or anybody who doesn`t want to see
Hillary Clinton become president of the United States? Only time will
tell. By judging of how Mrs. Clinton handled it today, she looked pretty
confident that she was in the clear.

Get your cellphones out. Tonight`s question, "Should the Justice
Department open an investigation in connection with Hillary Clinton`s
private e-mail?" Go to to cast your vote. We`ll bring
you the results later on in this program.

For more let me bring in Michael Steele, former RNC chair and MSNBC
Political Analyst, Brad Woodhouse with us tonight president of Correct the
Record, and Matthew Miller, former Department of Justice spokesperson and
aide to Attorney General Eric Holder.

And Mr. Miller, we`ll start with you first tonight. I think people are out
there wondering what`s the criteria? What bar has to be reached for any
kind of investigation to be opened? And does it matter if it`s Hillary
Clinton? Your thoughts?

MATTHEW MILLER, FRM DOJ SPOKEPERSON: No it doesn`t. I mean, the bar for
opening an investigation like this is pretty high. You have to have a
predicate and you have to some reason to believe there`s criminal activity.
And nothing that we`ve seen so far shows not only no criminal activity.
Not even anything inappropriate. If you look at what`s come out today
after the times story that, you know, was walked back significantly you
have basically boils down a couple of inspectors general who said there are
few e-mails in her account that were classified.

This comes after the state department has already retroactively classified
something so they were in our e-mail account they weren`t classified at the
time. They`ve now been retroactively classified. And you have the state
department coming out this afternoon saying the e-mails that the inspector
general is referring to aren`t actually classified. So you don`t have
anything -- any evidence of impropriety here, nothing that really rise to
level of investigation at all.

SCHULTZ: Brad Woodhouse, where is the story here?

story here is that there`s a pattern. And I don`t know why, Ed. I don`t
know why there`s a pattern at the New York Times of alleging criminal
behavior or alleging criminal investigations. The original story about her
e-mails said that she me a have broken laws. And the source for that
walked that back. But the New York Times never corrected that. They said
criminal today. They still have criminal up on their website. They
haven`t -- they issued a small correction but they haven`t taken that story

And Ed, I think the problem here is we know where there this is being fed
from. The common thread is that these come out and immediately Trey Gowdy
in the Benghazi committee, issue a statement, making more accusations and
demand more material and we know this is being fed by Republicans who`re
out to get Hillary Clinton and unfortunately the New York Times just
complicit in this.

SCHULTZ: Michael Steele, is this a pile on moment for the conservatives?

MICHAEL STEELE, FMR. RNC CHAIRMAN: Yeah right. Yeah, the New York Times
and that vast right-wing conspiracy, you know, in a cabal against Hillary.
Now this is -- I mean look, whether it`s shoddy reporting by the New York
Times or whatever it happens to be, the fact of the matter is all of this
has been brought on Hillary by Hillary Clinton. And a lot of this noise
and conversation could have been avoided if they just turned over the

The simplest, easiest thing to do. Give it back to the federal government
with the documents on there and let independent authorities go through it.
But here we are. And yeah, there are investigations and there are story
asks there are leaks. And this is the drama that the Clintons have brought
for themselves. And the polls are beginning -- I think to reflect as you
noted Ed, the wear and tear on her campaign before it really fully gets

So, you know, they`ve got to figure out how they`re going to traverse this.
And in the meantime Gowdy and his team are going to do what they`re going
to do next year. The New York Times is going to write what it`s going to
write. And, you know, she going to have to figure how she`s going to
navigate that.

SCHULTZ: Brad Woodhouse, the backdrop to this is pretty tough polling
numbers on trustworthiness. This can`t help in anyway. So, what does but
I will say that Hillary Clinton came out today and her statement with a
little swagger. She was pretty confident. She looked like this was all
just a bunch of nonsense and another vast right-wing conspiracy. I mean,
she acted like that but didn`t say it. What about that Brad?

WOODHOUSE: Well, she should be confident, Ed. I mean, we know from
reporting from the original story. We know from the law that, you know,
that she was complying with the law. That these e-mails that we`re talking
about today were classified after the fact. I mean, it`s being written in
some quarters like she was sending willy-nilly classified information at
the time. That is not true.

As Matthew said these were retroactively classified. She should be
confident. But look, some of this poll numbers the result of shoddy
reporting being fed by partisan sources. I mean, you know, the New York
Times and others need not take what Trey Gowdy and he`s lieutenant on that
committee to leaks ad nauseam. Actually have solid sources and it`s clear
that the New York Times didn`t in this case.

SCHULTZ: All right, let`s focus on the inspector generals here. What
motivated them? I mean, how -- there must be something there, if they
communicated something to the justice department. Isn`t that rather

MILLER: You know, I think if you look at the bottom of this, there`s a
bureaucratic fight going on between a couple of inspectors general and the
people of the state department that are reviewing these e-mails about how
that process ought to unfold. It has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.
And by the way, the only reason we`re actually even talking about these e-
mails, as she`s turned over every one of them and we`re now pouring through
them. Something that is really unprecedented for senior official.

So I think there is a disagreement over how to handle the release of these
e-mails. And that led to the state department and the intelligence
committee I.G.s writing this letter that went to the hill and then you saw
the hill take it and leak it to the New York Times and you end up with a
story that`s completely wrong and has been watch back.


MILLER: And so, the unfortunate victim and this is Hillary Clinton when in
fact this had really nothing to do with her from the beginning.

STEELE: That`s right

SCHULTZ: So what about the Justice Department demanding she turn over the
server? I mean, isn`t it rather unprecedented that that Secretary of State
would have a private e-mail account? I know her world is little different
than previous secretary states. But why wouldn`t the Justice Department
say give us everything.

MILLER: You know, the server is really kind of irrelevant to this entire
issue about classified versus unclassified e-mails. The rules for handling
of the classified information are the same for a private e-mail account as
they would be if she was using a e-mail. They really don`t -- it
really doesn`t matter here. She has turned over all the e-mails that were
business in nature. So they have everything that they need to go through
and look at these and that`s in fact why we`re seeing this kind of
unprecedented transparency on behalf of Secretary Clinton.

SCHULTZ: You buy that Mr. Steele?

STEELE: No I don`t. Because with all due respect, how do we know what
she`s turned over. She`s only told us what she`s turn over. We don`t know
what else there was. And that was the whole point of getting the server.
I mean look, if I tell you`ve done X Y and Z and I`ve only done X and Y. I
mean, the Z part may or may not matter but I`ve told you what I`ve done.
And when you come to find out later there may be some other reason to
suspect there is something else you are going to have a problem with that.
And I think that at the end of the day that`s enough for a people
regardless take the politics out of it and just look.


STEEL: ... even objectively and that`s part of the problem that she has
right now.

SCHULTZ: Brad your thoughts.

WOODHOUSE: But Ed, what Mr. Steele is suggesting is a standard that
Hillary Clinton should be held to that no other senior official in the
government is held to. Every senior official in the government gets to
decide what they consider business related what they consider personal.
And there is precedent. Colin Powell used personal e-mail and to this dad
he hasn`t turned any one of them. Not one. She turns over 55,000 pages
so, you know.

SCHULTZ: All right, Michael Steele, Brad Woodhouse and Matthew Miller,
gentlemen great to have you with us tonight on this story. Thanks for the

Remember to answer tonight`s question at We`ll have
the results after the break. Follow us on Facebook and watch my Facebook
feature "Give me a minute" and you can get my video Podcast at the website

Coming, Donald Trump is still leading in the polls after week of
controversial comments and moves. I`ll ask our panel, what can stop the
Donald and his surge?

And later, Jeb Bush plans to put Medicare on life support. I thought we
heard that from a guy who used to run named Ryan. We`ll bring you those

Stay with us. We`re back.


SCHULTZ: All right, back on the Ed Show. I`m anxious to see these numbers
tonight. Here where we stand as they roll in on the Bing Pulse poll.
Tonight question, "Should the Justice Department open an investigation in
connection with Hillary`s private e-mail. 27 percent say "Yes". 73
percent take it to the house. It`s over. Keep voting throughout the hour

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
Well, the media I think he probably should start calling this guy Teflon
Don. I mean, this week we`ve learned Donald Trump can pretty much bounce
back from anything. On Saturday Trump attacked John McCain`s record on
being a war hero.


TRUMP: I supported him for president. I raised a million dollars for him.
It`s a lot of money. I supported him. He lost. He let us down. But, you
know, he lost. So I`ve never liked him as much after that because I don`t
like losers. But frank let me get to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a war hero.

TRUMP: He`s not a war hero.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five and a half years.

TRUMP: He`s a warrior because he was captured. I like people who weren`t
captured. OK? I hate to tell you. Do you agree with that? He`s a war
hero because he was captured. OK? You could have and I believe perhaps
he`s a war hero.


SCHULTZ: So that offered up a week of rhetoric didn`t he? Everybody
predicted the backlash from voters would be severe.

Meanwhile here we go. A new PPP poll conducted after his remarks about
McCain still show him in first place with 19 percent. Scott Walker has
moved up a little bit, closing in at 17 percent. And Jeb Bush is at 12
percent. Many said the Trump`s campaign would be over from the start after
he made controversial comments about immigration. Trump didn`t apologize.
He doubled down. Went to the border and stood by his statements.


TRUMP: There`s great danger with the illegals and we`re just discussing
that. But we have a tremendous danger on the boarder with the illegal
coming in. Yes ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen any evidence here to confirm your fears
about Mexico sending its criminals across the border?

TRUMP: Yes, I have. And I`ve heard it. And I`ve heard from a lot of
different people. And in fact as you know the boarder patrol was the one
that invited me. I think once you have that invitation we send in the
boarder patrol invited me and then they cancel because frankly they don`t
want to get involve. They know from the reason they invited me was because
of the tremendous problem and the tremendous crime and all of the things
he`s talking about.

So they invited me and then at the last moment I mean we were virtually in
the air and they said we can`t get involved. And I heard they got those
orders from Washington. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What evidence specifically have you seen?

TRUMP: We`ll be showing you the evidence.


SCHULTZ: So sometimes we can`t see the forest because of the trees. What
is it? The guy knows how to communicate. I mean it just rolls right off
him. He just lays it out there. That is part of the attraction. Whatever
this guy is doing, it is connecting with some Americans enough to keep him
on top of the

For more let me bring in Mike Papantonio Ring of Fire Radio Host and
American`s Attorney, also with us tonight Carrie Sheffield from she`s a contributor there, great to have both with us
tonight. All right. Carrie, what is the traction here? This is staying
power that really nobody anticipated. Why is Trump -- now I think this
fifth or sixth poll where he`s number one. And it doesn`t seem that
anything is going to knock him out of that early on.

got to look at the methodology and we got to look at many polls here. I
would recommend going to real clear politics. You get a better sense of
who`s really at the top. It`s either Jeb or Walker, Rubio. But the fact
that Trump, you know, he took the same thing in 2012. He had this meteoric
rise but then he crashed. And so I think that`s we`re going to see. And
to be honest the things that he`s saying are just really awful Ed. It kind
of makes me wonder if he`s really secretly on the payroll of Hillary
Clinton considering the fact that he used to be a Democrat.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, how long is this going to last?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RING OF FIRE RADIO: Well look, it`s taken the Republican
20 years to develop their Donald Trump catastrophe but its here now. And
there is no easy escape. The Republican Party has become dysfunctional to
the point that array of carnival barkers that make up the field of
presidential candidates is simply the norm. He`s the new norm. Donald
Trump is the new normal. He`s just the new iteration of what the
Republican brand puts forward as their wise seasoned statesman. You know,
we began to seeing in this early on. We saw with Dan Quayle, which is
first sign

Dan Quayle was the first sign he was a Republican vice president who
couldn`t spell potato. He had no recognition that the residents of South
America, he didn`t speak Latin. Then before we knew it the dumbing down
quality of the GOP digressed to believing that Sarah Palin, Michele
Bachmann and Rick Perry were just exactly what the Republicans needed to
lead their party. And there some damage Ed that is irreversible in

Donald Trump represents more than this buffoonish talking cancer to
Republican leadership. Donald Trump is a scary reminder to establishment
Republicans that they lost their party to Fox. They lost their party to
the Koch brothers. They lost their party.


PAPANTONIO: To insane Tea Party.

SCHULTZ: What about that?

SHEFFIELD: I got to respond. Because, OK. Look, I will eat my right hand
is Donald Trump is the Republican nominee. It is not going to happen.
Look who the party has nominated in the past. Moderate central (ph)
candidates like Mitt Romney and the John McCain. So seriously give me a
break, OK. I mean, Donald Trump he`s not a politician, he`s not even
entertainer. He`s been the worst offensive thing.

PAPANTONIO: Give you a break?

SHEFFIELD: I mean, common please.

PAPANTONIO: He`s destroying the Republican Party.

SHEFFIELD: The one thing he says -- the things that he says about
immigration is that he`s speaking to the same worry that Cesar Chavez is
had. Nobody would accuse Cesar Chavez a racism, he was very much against
illegal immigration. Which a lot of people are concerned about as well.
Including people that watch you show, Ed. People who`re blue color workers
who are worrying about what immigrants do to the country which is drive
down the wages.

PAPANTONIO: Well, I think you just made the point. The being is that
Donald Trump is destroying this party. Donald Trump is out there talking
about immigration because he understands what happened in France just two
years ago where the main talking point of the right-wing party was close
the borders. So he`s out there doing exactly the things that you say to
me, give me a break. Really? The issue comes down to the damage that he`s
doing to the Republican Party. And that is kind after sad story because
they at one time were an important party. One time you had Edward Burke.
You had William Buckley. You had Barry Goldwater who at least stood for
something. They weren`t these carnival barkers. Now got in this point.

SHEFFIELD: OK, I`m sorry, you`re talking about the most dominate
Republican Congress in as like multiple generations right now that was
elected by the American people. So you cannot give me that to say some
sort of french thing.

SCHULTZ: Well, wait a minute now there is a little bit of gerrymandering
going on out there Carrie. Let`s be honest here. There`s been some social
engineering going on of districts that have certainly walk a lot of
Republicans right into the power in the house. And of course Citizens
United is changing a lot of things when it comes to election outcomes as I
see it.

Now but here`s the issue, as this continues to move forward Carrie, there
has to be a legitimate concern on the part of the Republicans. What are we
going to do? Are we going to embrace this guy? Or are we going to try to
deep six him? And if we do that he`s going to run as a third party
candidate which could be disastrous. So anywhere you turn Carrie isn`t he
a problem?

SHEFFIELD: Well, I do agree you that there`s a threat that he might run as
the third party candidate which gets back to my theory that he might
actually be on Hillary`s payroll. She`s got the largest payroll by far in
this election by many multiple

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s a good conspiracy theory. I don`t think that`s
happening, but yeah.


SHEFFIELD: OK, to the risk of him running as a third party that to me it
speaks to his credibility as an individual like he`s slogan that he wants
to make America great again. And if he actually wants to do that then he
wouldn`t help Hillary win, if he actually thinks that she`s such a terrible
candidate. So, you know, he`s talking on both sides of his mouth.

SCHULTZ: And Finally, Mike.


SCHULTZ: Trump says that he`s giving up a lot. He`s sacrificing a lot to
do this.


SCHULTZ: As if he`s doing us a favor that he`s running for president. I
think that statement is going to turn off more people than what he said
about John McCain. What do you think?

PAPANTONIO: This is a big commercial for the guy. He`s not losing
anything. But you know what? He can say almost anything. You have a part
of the Republican Party. They are called the low hanging fruit. And they
buy and accept just about anything that happens. And so there`s really no
risk in him saying the outrageous things that he`s saying. He`s having


PAPANTONIO: It is called reckless abandoned politics.

SCHULTZ: But he`s giving up a lot according to him.

Mike Papantonio and Carrie Sheffield, great to have you on the program. I
appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

Coming up, we`ll discuss Jeb Bush`s plan to take down Medicare.

And next we`ll have an update from Louisiana following yesterday`s deadly
theater shooting.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And we are back. Two people are dead and nine injured after a
gunman opened fire in a Southwest Louisiana movie theater last night.

NBC`s Jay Gray has the latest.


JAY GRAY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Police rushed in just after the first
shots rang out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just loud. Like one big loud bang made my ears
ring but I knew it was a gunshot.

GRAY: Witnesses say a 59-year-old drifter, John Russell Houser stood up in
the crowded theater and opened fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like he was just very calm, just standing there kind of
walking down the aisle and firing.

GRAY: Two people were killed in the attack. Nine others wounded.

JACOB BROUSSARD, WITNESS: Shocked. I don`t know what to say about the

GRAY: Today as their investigation continues police are learning more
about the man they say is responsible.

knew what he was doing, clearly had some type of plan, because he bought
the ticket, he`s in the theater, he had the gun.

GRAY: A plan that according to officers became more clear as they search
the hotel he had being in.

JIM CRAFT, LAFAYETTE POLICE CHIEF: We found wigs and glasses and disguises
basically in his room. It is apparent that he was intent on shooting and
then escaping.

GRAY: Things apparently changed though when Houser spotted officers in the
chaos as he was trying to leave.

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL, (R) LOUISIANA: He saw the law enforcement, local police
officers, went back inside and that is when he shot and killed himself.

GRAY: As makeshift memorials grow across this shattered community police
have released the names of two women killed. 21-year-old Mayci Breaux and
33-year-old Jillian Johnson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t lose sight of the fact that these two
individuals, they had a vision. They had a name. They had a future. And
it wasn`t to die as they did horribly in this theater here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now police and so many here are trying to understand
how and why it happened.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight with the latest from Lafayette, Louisiana is
NBC`s Craig Melvin. Craig, what is the latest surrounding this

CRAIG MELVIN, NBC NEWS REPORTER: Ed, I`m going to step out right now so
you can see what`s happening right now. This is Louisiana Governor Bobby
Jindal is landing here in front of the movie theater. The governor
(inaudible) we`re told that he is going to head inside to talk to
investigators and law enforcement officers. He`s also going to tour the
crime scene. After that we`re told that he is going to come out and be a
part of a news conference with an update on the latest with regards to the

We can tell you that in the last 30 minutes we`ve learned a little bit more
about the shooter and his criminal past. We`ve been talking about this
arson charge. And we can tell you now it dates back to 1989 in Georgia.
We`re told the shooter was charged with trying to hire a third party to set
fire to a local attorney`s office. That of course adding to this picture
that has emerged over the past few hours of the suspected shooter. In a
divorce filing his ex-wife says that he was on medication. He was being
treated for mental illness. He did not always take that medication
according to her. He also didn`t always eat properly, which exacerbated
the condition.

We`re told he threatened family members at one point. He was known to
local law enforcement. We spent some time talking to a police chief in
Georgia who said that at one point several years ago he owned a bar there
in LaGrange, Georgia. There was some back and forth over some violations
at the bar. City officials shut the bar down. In retribution he went and
according to the local police chief there, he went and he hanged a swastika
banner that was so large you could see it from the main roadway.

So that is the picture that is beginning to emerge of the government but
again Ed, at this point we still do not have an answer to the major
question, why? Why here at Lafayette? Why last night in a theater did he
decide to open fire?

SCHULTZ: NBC`s Craig Melvin on the ground reporting from Lafayette,
Louisiana. Craig thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come on the Ed Show, the Rapid Response panel on Jeb Bush`s
Medicare plans and later Congressman John Garamendi joins me for the
discussion on the latest developments on the Iranian nuclear deal.

Stay with us.

KATE ROGERS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Kate Rogers with your CNBC Market

Stocks end in the red this Friday. The DOW falls 153 points, the S&P sheds
22 and the NASDAQ slide 57.

Anthem is buying Cigna in a deal valued at more than $54 billion. The
combination will create the largest health insurance in the U.S. by

New home sales drops 6.8 percent last month to the lowest level in seven
months. And Amazon today (ph) jumped nearly 10 percent today helping boost
the companies market cap which is now bigger than Wal-Marts.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Jeb Bush is picking up where
Congressman Paul Ryan left off. Bush says he wants to phase out Medicare.


BUSH: We need to figure a way to phase out this program for others and
move to a new system that allows them to have something, because they`re
not going to have anything. And that argument I think is going to be a
winning argument if we take it directly to people.


SCHULTZ: Well, good luck selling that plan in Florida. Congressman Paul
Ryan used the same reasoning to promote a voucher system. Jeb Bush praised
him for it.


BUSH: Paul Ryan prior to being a vice presidential candidate and then as
the vice presidential candidate (inaudible) have a plan to deal with this
type of problems. The so called third rail wasn`t the reason why Paul Ryan
is not vice president. He had (inaudible) his condition.


SCHULTZ: Well here is how popular Paul Ryan`s ideas went over at the AARP


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: The first step to a stronger medicare is to
repeal Obamacare. Because it represents the worst of both worlds. It
weakens medicare for today`s seniors and puts it at risk for the next


SCHULTZ: Paul Ryan and Jeb Bush are on the wrong side of this issue.
Medicare`s 2015 report shows a huge turnaround for the system. In a 2005
projection, medicare spending was expected to rise to 13 percent of GDP by
the year 2080 according to the 2015 report spending has projectedly slowed
significantly. Costs should reach only 6 percent of GDP in the same time.

Well, medical expenses have gone down` since the Affordable Care Act
passed. Jeb Bush is running against a system that works.

Joining me now our Rapid Response panel back with us Mike Papantonio Ring
of Fire Radio host, Carrie Sheffield Contributor at LifeZette, and also
with us tonight Mitch Ceasar Executive board member of the Democratic
National Committee.

And Mitch we`ll go to you first. Did Jeb Bush push this idea when he was
Governor of Florida? People want to know. This is the first we`ve heard
of it.

remembered that there are a lot of senior citizens in Florida and it`s kind
of bizarre for someone who has that kind of memory and history. What it
actually reminds me of is the fact and as you mentioned, you know, it is
secure. And why he would play with this political third rail is beyond me.
He`s not a stupid guy politically. But it reminds me of the situation with
his brother when he was president who talked about toying with social
security and talked about privatizing and of course thankfully that didn`t
happen because then the market went under and lost about half its value.
He understands Florida. I think he`s trying to somehow slip this in. He
is certainly smarter than this. I find it shocking.

SCHULTZ: OK. Mike, why are we getting a Paul Ryan repeat if it didn`t
work in Florida in the past.

PAPANTONIO: Now what we see unfolding every day with Jeb is his
competition with the Koch brother pick Scott walker. Both of them are
engage in a competition about who can pleased daddy the best. And in this
case daddy is the Koch Empire and all the billionaires` inheritance babies
and corporations who helped bolster the plans of that empire. When you
drill down to heart of what they want the billionaire inheritance babies
what they want, it has to do with making more money. And one way of making
more is take more away from the American middle class.

So the question becomes who can be the best, the most outrageous in their
anti worker, anti middle class and their stump speeches? Is it Jeb or
Scott Walker? Their message is the same. Cut medicare, fight minimum
wages and make sure America`s middle class works longer hours for less


PAPANTONIO: Until they reach the age of 75 or until they die.

SCHULTZ: Carrie, what is the political strategy here for Bush? You know,
Paul Ryan got huge backlash trying to this the last time around. So why
would bush be picking up the strategy.

SHEFFIELD: Look, he doesn`t need to be on the defensive. The nonpartisan
congressional budget office, the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles commission.
They all back him up on this. And Ed that chart you showed was only about
expenditures, it wasn`t about revenues. And it`s on and unsustainable path
right now. And you talk about hurting the middle class. What Bush wants
to do is charge rich seniors more. He`s trying to charge them more. So I
don`t see why you have a problem with that. And the other thing is this is
a 20th century program in a 21st century economy. When it was created in
1965 the average man lived to 67. Now he lives to 84. When we got to
readjust here.

SCHULTZ: Well, we don`t have to readjust as I see it respectfully because
there`s no political march by the people of this country who think that
Medicare is terrible. I mean, there has to be some political will
somewhere. There has to be a movement saying it`s so bad. Medicare has
changed the lives of millions of Americans. It`s been one of the most
successful programs we`ve had and the projections from 2005 are far
different. Expenditures, that is a big chart. So in other words, they
miscalculated exactly how much this was going to cost. And the Affordable
Care Act has reversed things around for Medicare. But yet it`s the
privatization Carrie.

I want you to talk about that. Why do the Republicans want to privatize
everything when privatization is all about profit and not people?

SHEFFIELD: Look, we know that privatization is the best way to give people
the best care. Now, if we do need a safety net program for people who
can`t afford the private care. But let`s take Medicare part drug plan. It
centered around private sector plans. Part D came in under budget. Can
you tell me what government program came in under budget? If we could take
the principles of Part D and expand it to other parts of Medicare it could
work, which means making it centered around private sector plan.

SCHULTZ: But Carrie, it`s all about the cost to the consumer. And
precipitation drugs...


SCHULTZ: ... have gone down to the tune of the billions since the
Affordable Care Act has gone into effect.

SHEFFIELD: Because of competition.

SCHULTZ: OK, all right. Mitch Ceasar, are seniors going to figure this
out in Florida? How`s this going to play?

CEASAR: Well, I think they figured this out a long time ago. I purposely
asked a lot of friends who specifically were Republican independents,
because I do have friends who are not only Democrats. And I asked them --
they`re aging about 30 to 70. I asked them today. There wasn`t one single
person including Republican in defense (ph) who thought this was a good
idea. You know I`m closing in on part of the baby boomer generation. And
obviously I`d like to have that there when I`ve paid in. But when talking
to younger people they have an expectation too. And with more baby boomers
coming into the system, clearly it`s still found actuarially correct.


CEASAR: So, I think he`s really stirred something up but I don`t think he
has the backing. I think the previous speaker was correct obviously Mr.


CEASAR: That they`re just trying to scare up Koch brothers and the folks
for American prosperity.

SCHULTZ: I want to bring in Congressman John Garamendi on this discussion
conversation. He wants to respond to this. Congressman your thoughts on
the numbers that are starting to show up on medicare and how Jeb Bush wants
to get rid of it and privatize it.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, (D) CALIFORNIA: I just heard some of the most
outstanding misinformation I`ve heard in a long, long time. Ed, we have
seen medical cost rate increases dramatically decline. They`re still
increases but they`re about half the inflation prior to the Affordable Care
Act. Medicare Part D is not a private organization. That is a government
program in which unfortunately the Republicans in the early 2000 set up
Medicare Part D and handed over billions and billions of dollars to the
drug companies because there is no competition for the price of drugs. The
federal government is simply a price taker. It cannot -- it cannot even
negotiate the price of the drugs in Medicare Part D. That is a fact.

SHEFFIELD: How can Part D came in well below budget by the magnitude of
many billions?

GARAMENDI: Wait a minute, wait a minute. OK.

SHEFFIELD: It was because of competition. Competition because of the
plans --

GARAMENDI: I`m sorry, but you don`t win an argument by keeping talking.
Listen carefully. Medicare Part D expenses are exploding. Most recently
in this week`s newspaper in reports this week, Medicare Part D, prices are
going through the roof. Doctors around the nation are complaining. Cancer
doctors, oncologists are saying it is unaffordable because there is no
competition. It is all whatever the drug companies want to charge. That
is a fact. And the most and the single part of...

SHEFFIELD: And doing just fine before the Affordable Care Act. The
approval rating of seniors. Medicare Part D unrolled in 2006.


SHEFFIELD: The approval of seniors was in the 90s and now the Affordable
Care Act has completely disrupted the entire insurance market.

GARAMENDI: No, you`re talking about.

SHEFFIELD: I lost my doctor. The president lied to me.

GARAMENDI: Madam you`re talking about two very different things.

SHEFFIELD: He said that could keep my doctor but I did not get to keep my
doctor because of this president.

GARAMENDI: Sound bites are not going to win an argument.

SHEFFIELD: Are you saying my insurance plan is sound bites.

SCHULTZ: All right, we got leave it there. We`re up against the clock.
We`ll have you both back.

GARAMENDI: I`m sorry.

SCHULTZ: Congressman John Garamendi stays with us. Mike Papantonio thanks
so much. Carrie Sheffield you`re definitely a conservative no doubt. Good
to have you with us on the Ed Show and Mitch Ceasar always. I appreciate

Still to come, John Kerry continues to defend the Iran nuclear deal as
opposition mounts in Congress

We`ll have the latest. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s
question, "Should the Justice Department open an investigation in
connection with Hillary Clinton`s private e-mail?" The numbers solid are
solid. 27 percent of you say "Yes". 73 percent say "No. Keep on voting
until the end of the hour at

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Tonight`s Two-Minute Drill. Here it is. A professional surfer
took on one of the world`s toughest waves in an incredible way. Hawaiian
native Jamie O`Brien team up with Red Bull to catch the Tahiti`s biggest
waves with his wet suit in flames. It took a year of planning and a team
of 25 people to make sure that O`Brien would be safe through this. O`Brien
said the idea sparked from a message he received on social media after
asking his fans what stunt he should attempt next. He told Red Bull it was
the biggest adrenaline rush of his life.

Stick around. There`s a lot more coming up in the Ed Show.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, Republicans want to pull out all the stops
to block the Iranian nuclear deal. Senators used the Senate foreign
relations committee hearing as a bashing session.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not unlike a hotel guest that leaves only with a hotel
bathrobe on its back, I believe you have been fleeced.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys have been bamboozled and the American people
are going to pay for that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have turned Iran from being a purya (ph) to now
Congress, Congress being a purya.


SCHULTZ: Secretary State John Kerry defended the deal at the council of
foreign relations earlier today in New York.


SECY. JOHN KERRY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: We have 25 years of cradle to
grave accountability for their uranium, mining, milling, yellow cake
production. Gasification, centrifuge, and waste. You can`t make a bomb.


SCHULTZ: Kerry says confronting Iran can only happen when the deal is


SCHULTZ: The first order of business, my friends, if you`re going to
confront them and push back, is to push back against an Iran that doesn`t
have a nuclear weapon.


SCHULTZ: President Obama isn`t shaken by the attacks coming from
Congressional members. He told the BBC, the Iran deal doesn`t mean
military force is off the table.


to the Iranians. We`re settling the Iran deal, but we still have a big
account that we`re going to have to work. Hopefully some diplomatically,
if necessarily, some militarily.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Congressman John Garamendi of California who
seat on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, it seems like
we`re the only country involved in this deal that`s having a real political
fight over this. What do you make of it?

GARAMENDI: Well, you just said something very important that`s missed
here. And that is, we are not in this alone. We have China, Russia, Japan
-- Germany, France, and Great Britain and the EU, all of them, supporting
the deal. So it`s not just the United States, and this is something that
can`t be missed. If the Congress turns this deal down, and overrides the
president`s veto, what are those countries going to do? They`re going to
blame us for trashing this deal. And that`s a very bad situation, because
they`re not going to come back and put the sanctions in place. This deal
goes forward, the sanctions are still available to us. And we know that
Iran will not be developing a nuclear weapon for at least a decade. And
quite possibly for the 25 years that Secretary Kerry just spoke about.

SCHULTZ: And the thinking there is that we could do a heck of a lot of
diplomacy in 25 years and a new relationship with the Iranians. What about
Senator Marco Rubio`s comments at the next president will undo this? Those
kinds of things are being thrown out there quite a bit. Well, it`s totally
irresponsible. It`s just irresponsible. That is what you call pandering
to your base. It`s irresponsible. In that, OK, you`re going to undo it.
What does that mean? Are you ready to go to war with Iran over a deal that
the United States trashed?

I don`t think that makes any sense whatsoever, and it is extraordinarily
dangerous. A war with Iran is not a simple thing. It is not what happened
in Iraq when we were able to take them out in a couple weeks, and then
created a horrible mess. So be very, very careful. Be thoughtful. I know
it`s time for a lot of political rhetoric and shouting and thumping of the
chest, but the reality is this deal works, for what it was intended to do,
which is to take away the nuclear weapon option that Iran has today in
three months, they could build up to ten nuclear bombs. This deal goes
forward, it`s at least 10 years, quite possibly 25 years. That`s a real
improvement from where we are today. This deal goes down, then Iran has
the ability to build those bombs because they still have all the physical
(ph) material and they know-how to do it.

SCHULTZ: All right. Congressman John Garamendi with us on the Ed Show.
John, thanks a lot. I appreciate your time.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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