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The Ed Show for Tuesday, July 28th, 2015

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Date: July 28, 2015
Guest: Mike Papantonio, Larry Cohen, Genevieve Wood, Scott Paul, Terence
Moore, Caroline Heldman, Bruce Bartlett, Bob Shrum

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from Detroit Lakes, Minnesota.

Let`s get to work.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, the competition heats up.

effort in the Senate against the Keystone pipeline.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As president, would you sign a bill, yes or no, please,
in favor of allowing the Keystone XL pipeline.

HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to wait and see what
he and Secretary Kerry decide. If it`s undecided when I become president I
will answer your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, fact-check.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During the campaign Governor Walker promised to
create 250,000 Wisconsin jobs in his first four year term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a campaign promise something you want to be
held to?


Scott Walker. I think he`s going to plunge in the polls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And stage fight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most recent five polls are all going to be
crunched together and the top 10 GOP candidates are going to be chosen to
appear on that debate stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On just a lot of folks who`re hoping to get into that
first Fox debate.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching. So
this commentary is not about the candidate or candidates. It is about the
issues. Hillary Clinton is now saying "Elect me president and I`ll tell
you where I stand on an issue." Yet, climate change is supposed to be this
big thing that is not only confronting the United States but the globe.

What it boils down to is that Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are
running two very different campaigns for what they want to do and that`s
lead the country. It shows in almost everything they do. Remember it`s
about the issues and the answers, it is not about the candidates. This is
not a Hillary bashing session. These are facts.

On Wednesday Bernie Sanders volunteers will be hosting 3,000 grassroots
gathers in all 50 states across America. Supporters are going to be
meeting in home, coffee shop, union halls in effort to spread the campaigns
message. So far over 100,000 people plan to attend and the numbers are
growing. Bernie Sanders is out speaking to massive crowds all over the
country. And the experts are trying to figure out what is this?

Senator Sanders is consistently doing interviews on national television.
He`s talking to the people and answering the questions, anything that`s
thrown in his way. On the flip side Hillary Clinton has been holding
mostly these smaller meet and greet type events and she says she wants to
hear what voters have to say on the issues. She`s given a very -- very few
policy speech, no doubt about it. Clinton has given only one national
television interview since she`s announced her campaign and she`s gone so
far as to say she`s not running her campaign for the media. And then of
course there`s the money.

Bernie Sanders has raised $15.2 million. He has no Super PACs supporting
his campaign. Hillary Clinton has raised $47.5 million. Her Super PACs
have raise15.6 million. Now, her total fundraising tops $63 million.
Today we learned one of Hillary Clinton`s Super PACs is now sending
trackers, trackers to monitor Bernie Sanders and Martin O`Malley.

The organization is Correct The Record. Their trackers have been spotted
at a number of campaign events. Super PACs are not legally allowed to
coordinate with campaigns. And we got to point out that trackers on the
campaign trail are nothing new. Correct The Record released a statement
saying "We`re doing our due diligence and we`d expect others to do the
same." Both Sanders and O`Malley campaigns have not deployed trackers.

Now, this is the first time trackers have been deployed in the 2016
Democratic primary. It certainly means that these Super PACs view sanders
as a viable candidate. These trackers won`t hear anything out of the
ordinary at Sanders campaign events, no doubt.


SANDERS: What this campaign is about is saying that our great country and
our government belong to all of the people and not a handful of
billionaires. Today we live in a nation which has more income and more
wealth inequality than any other major country on earth. That is not
acceptable. And together, we are going to change that.


SCHULTZ: So where are all the negative comments coming from Bernie Sanders
towards Hillary Clinton? They don`t exist. Sanders is running a positive
campaign. He`s never run a negative ad in his life. In his political life
he`s never run a negative ad against another candidate. Sanders does
correctly criticize Hillary Clinton on issues and point out the
differences. He`s gone after Clinton for not taking a position on the
Trans-Pacific Partnership. Sanders has criticized Hillary Clinton on her
cozy relationship with Wall Street. He`s gone after Clinton`s non position
on the Keystone XL pipeline.

And earlier Hillary Clinton again refused to answer a question on the
Keystone XL pipeline.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As president, would you sign a bill, yes or no please
in favor of allowing the Keystone XL pipeline.

CLINTON: Well, as you know, I was the secretary of state who started that
process. I was the one who put into place the investigation. I have now
passed it off, as obvious because I`m no longer there, to Secretary Kerry.
This is president Obama`s decision. And I am not going to second guess
him. Because I was in a position to set this in motion and I do not think
that would be the right thing to do. So I want to wait and see what he and
Secretary Kerry decide. If it`s undecided when I become president I will
answer your question.


SCHULTZ: So if you vote for Hillary she`ll tell you where she stands on a
huge issue when it comes to bringing tar sands oil to the climate, which is
the most toxic oil that is going to be coming out of the ground on the face
of the earth.

Sanders respondent to Clinton`s refusal to take a position on Keystone
today, he released a statement saying "It is hard for me to understand how
one could be concerned about climate change but not vigorously oppose the
Keystone pipeline."

Sanders has repeatedly said he`s against the pipeline. The difference
between these two Democratic candidates to me seems to be pretty clear.
It`s up to the voters to make the choice. It is up to those folks out
there in the liberal community who know the Republicans are climate
deniers. Do they want to send somebody to White House and support a
candidate who isn`t quite ready to give an answer on Keystone because of
process? What? To me that is just unacceptable.

Hillary Clinton is walking into an issue that she doesn`t need to walk
into. People want direct answers on this issue. This plays right to the
trustworthiness of the polls. It also plays right to whether Hillary is
connecting with the people that she`s trying to get to vote for her. She`s
not connecting with the people. That has nothing to do with whether she
was secretary of state. Has nothing to do with process. You either
believe that the tar sands oil is bad, or you think it is not bad. Is this
a play to Wall Street? Yes it is. Is this a play to the big oil
companies? Yes it is. Let`s call it what it is.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Do you want to know where Hillary Clinton stands on the Keystone
XL pipeline?" Go to to cast your vote. We`ll bring you
the results later on in the show.

Remember, it is about the issues. This is an issue. Climate change is
supposed to be the issue of our time. Keystone XL pipeline. You could say
"Well, we can`t do it in trucks, can`t do it in trains. We can`t do it in
pipelines." OK, but do we want to put a pipeline over the Ogallala Aquifer
that we want to take that risk. Do we want to bring tar sands oil that`s
going to just put money in the Koch brother`s pockets? Is this good
policy? And she can`t give an answer and then stands at town hall meeting
and says "Well, you elect president I`ll tell you where I stand on

I have never heard a candidate ever talk like that. That is what makes
this campaign so unique. It`s about absolutes and Hillary Clinton cannot
give us an absolute. When all the people out there who`re working on
climate change know exactly what the answer is.

For more let bring in Mike Papantonio Ring of Fire Radio host, and Larry
Cohen former President of the Communications Workers of America, gentlemen
good to have you with us tonight.

Hillary Clinton says she wants to go around the country and listen to what
the voters are saying. I`m starting to wonder is she listening to what the
people are asking? She has to know that this question isn`t going to go
away. This is the second day in a row. This question has come up.

So if she`s listening to the people she must be listening to the questions.
Certainly she has to anticipate. And I want to point out this is the third
different answer she`s given on Keystone. The first one was that she
though that Keystone was part of a much broader energy package that they
need to discuss with Canada. That was her first position.

Her next position was that while she was secretary of state and doesn`t
want to get involved in the process. And now she`s saying well, you elect
me president and I`ll tell you what my answer is going to be.

Larry Cohen, how can the left embrace answers like this in positions like
this? A very direct question. How can those who are concerned about
climate change embrace this?

LARRY COHEN, FMR CWA PRESIDENT: We can`t. I mean, these non answer,
whether it was on fast-track, as you said or now on Keystone XL pipeline,
they`re not unacceptable. And this kind of triangulation -- People are fed
up it. And that is why tomorrow there are 3,000 house visits for Bernie
Sanders. And you can still sign up at

People are fed up with business as usual. And they want to vote for their
believes and their values and that`s the campaign we`re building.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, does it matter if Hillary Clinton started a
process that the state depart -- I don`t even know if that`s a true or not.
Because they`ve been talking about Keystone I thought for a decade. But
anyway, does it matter what she used to be to as to where she is right now?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, HOST "RING OF FIRE RADIO": Ed, she should comments about
things that she used to do all the time, Ed. Look, the Democratic talking
heads may not think this is a problem but do you know what they should do?
They should go social media. This story blew up just on Ring of Fire. The
numbers were startling. If they want an answer and what they want is the
same kind of yes or no answers that Bernie Sanders give. You know at this
point. The one best things Hillary can do is to try to highjack Bernie
message of populism uprising. And you do that by being truthful and

But truthfully it`s not easily done with the long history that she has in
politics. It`s extremely difficult to simply make a convincing brand
change as a matter -- in a matter of months. But one way you begin is
being direct. Being not equivocal. Being deliberate about who you are and
what you stand for.

Bernie`s message is resonating with Americans because we wants to rebuild
the middle class, he wants to bring jobs back to America, and he wants to
bring manufacturing back to America, he wants to save Social Security and
Medicare from Wall Street. He`s wants to reverse environmental
catastrophe. He`s direct. He does it. There is nothing equivocal of what
he said.

And if you look at the numbers Ed, it is startling that this flaw that
Hillary`s advisors are not helping her with is very much a negative for

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, I would seems to me that if she were to do more
national interviews she`d be having to answer this question and being put
in an untenable position. I mean, is this a Wall Street play? She knows
she`s going to get a lot of money on the Wall Street, She don`t want o
infuriate them. Is this is a big oil play. She doesn`t want to become a
target of the big oil companies and just wants to be after satisfying
everybody. Can you have it both ways Larry Cohen?

COHEN: You can`t have it both ways. I think that`s the problem trying to
be neutral on things so that you can say to people "Look, I`m going to get
elected so I`m not going to take positions on these things." And I think
as we just heard with Bernie, you know, we come right out and say this is
what we stand for. No to the pipeline. But on the other hand $1 trillion
to build infrastructure including all kinds of pipelines across America.
Let`s put people back to work, but no to the pipeline and no to tar sands.

SCHULTZ: Here`s the interesting thing about Hillary`s non answer. There
are people in Congress who are for Keystone. It`s not like she`s going to
be going out an on island if she says "Yes, I think we should build it."
She would get support from some Canadians, she would get support from some
Canadian elected officials, the prime minister, she would get bipartisan
support. There are some Democrats who`re in favor of Keystone. So Mike,
why won`t she take a position and say yes or no?

PAPANTONIO: When you have been running for president since you were 12
it`s tough. You have a past history. And more importantly her allegiance
to Wall Street, the hedge fund sources that are in frenzy to fund her
campaign. She has allegiance there. So you can`t become a legitimate
populous candidate overnight with that kind of history merely by saying
you`re a populous. You have to make a decision now. Hillary has to make a
decision now.

It`s not one foot in and one foot out. What she doesn`t understand is
Bernie Sanders has a lot of time to build this political movement that he`s
talking about. He says I`m not building -- I`m not just running for
president. I`m building a political movement. She`s missing that. The
D.C. beltway insiders miss that. If you listen to the talk shows, they
miss that.


PAPANTONIO: While Bernie is trying to create this political and social sea
change in America, Hillary on the other hand is forced to tie her wagons to
the status quo.


PAPANTONIE: Because it`s the status quo that put her there.

SCHULTZ: The environmental community in this country is going to have to
justify why they`re supporting Hillary Clinton if they don`t get a straight
answer. That` the next chapter of this story. It`s very puzzling. Mike
Papantonio and Larry Cohen, great to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at We`ll have
the results after the break. Follow us on Facebook and like us on
Facebook. And watch my feature "Give me a minute." And you can get my
video PodCast at

The real deal on how many jobs Scott Walker has actually created in his
state that`s coming up next.

And the NFL has upheld Tom Brady`s suspension based on new information.
What the Patriots quarterback revealed ahead.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And the numbers are coming in on the Ed Show. Here`s where we
stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s question, "Do you want to
know where Hillary Clinton stands on the Keystone XL pipeline? 84 percent
of you say "Yes". 16 percent say "No". Keep the voting going throughout
the hour at

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight. Well,
Donald Trump hammered Scott Walkers` jobs record.


TRUMP: In Walkers`s state, Wisconsin is a catastrophe from an economic and
financial standpoint. I think he`s number 36 or 38 overall in terms of the
country for economic growth. And the jobs projections were way, way off.


SCHULTZ: Trump is right. On last night`s show one of our guests said
Scott Walker created 150,000 manufacturing jobs. That of course caught my
attention. I didn`t know that. The bureau of labor statistics show that
Wisconsin has created actually 35,000 jobs in manufacturing since Walker
took office. He didn`t come close. Our guest is going to correct the
record with us tonight respectfully.

Walker is not the jobs creator he promised to the folks of Wisconsin.
Compare Wisconsin to where I`m broadcasting from tonight, Minnesota.
Walker wants to balance Wisconsin`s budget on the backs of the middle
class. Minnesota elected Governor Mark Dayton, turn the legislature over
to the Democrats because you see he asked and they said that the wealthy
had to pay their fair share and they did.

Dayton took the state`s $6 billion deficit to a $2 billion budget surplus.
Scott Walkers`s state budget is $2.2 billion in the hole. Wisconsin ranks
38 in the country in job growth. Now he wants to bring his failing record
to Washington or maybe the Republicans think being 38th is good. I don`t

Joining me tonight Genevieve Wood, Senior Contribute with the Daily Signal,
also with us tonight Scott Paul, President of the Alliance for American
Manufacturing, great to have both of you with us.

Genevieve, respectfully I want to give you a chance to restate what you
were saying last night. Your numbers what...


SCHULTZ: ... I mean, clearly there weren`t 150,000 manufacturing jobs


SCHULTZ: In Wisconsin. What was it?

WOOD: Well, let me first say this and I hope I never have to say it again.
Ed Schultz was right. OK, now I`ve said it. No, I was alluding to the
overall job like number. I was wrong on the manufacturing. It`s much
closer to the number you give. 35,000, 36,000 depending on the exact
number of months you record.

But I think the bigger issue here is Scott Walker overpromised when he was
running for office originally and said I`m going to create $250,000 jobs.
Well, how to you create all those jobs? The reality is Scott Walker -- I
should say Wisconsin did not suffer as much in the original recession as a
lot of other states. They were about 7.3 or 7.4 unemployment where places
like Michigan were 10.6. Ohio was over 9. So they lost about 100,000

Now, since Scott Walker has become governor they have brought back those
100,000 jobs plus another 20 plus some thousand to account for people
coming into the job market in Wisconsin. So I think he`s under...

SCHULTZ: Genevieve they`re 38th in the country.

WOOD: Yeah. But Ed, that`s because they didn`t have as much room to grow.
Their current unemployment rate is 4.6 percent.


WOOD: Which is well under the national average and so my point is he
overpromised he should have look at those numbers and realize, how on Earth
I`m going to create all these jobs. That would mean you have to be

SCHULTZ: You`re the first conservative I`ve ever heard say that Scott
Walker overpromised something. That`s interesting.

WOOD: I think he did, I think he did.

SCHULTZ: OK, all right. Fair enough. That is your take on it. And you
should also know that I`m correct on a lot of stuff. So but whatever.

WOOD: I`m not going to go there, Ed.

SCHULTZ: All right. Scott Paul, what has Walker`s policies done to
American manufacturing in Wisconsin, the manufacturing sector? You know,
you work with all these different manufacturing companies and industries.
What are the numbers? What is your take on that?

know, Walker`s theory is that by undercutting unions and doing deregulation
and cutting public spending that the private market in Wisconsin was going
to flourish and attract a lot of jobs. That hasn`t been the case. And
it`s just not my opinion. As you pointed out Wisconsin ranks anywhere from
35th to 38th in private sector job creation depending on the period of time
you are looking at.

The Kauffman Foundation ranks Wisconsin the worst state in the country for
start-ups. Wisconsin has had the middle class hollowed out. More than any
other state in the country, Ed. And you think about the proud tradition of
the middle class in Wisconsin and how -- it got built up there. Wisconsin
also saw a 14 percent decrease in average household income over that period
of time.

SCHULTZ: That`s big.

PAUL: Yeah. And so these are -- I mean, these are -- and Forbes and CNBC
who, you know, certainly probably tilt right of center rate Wisconsin in
the 30s or worse in terms of the business climate. You know you look at
Mark Dayton in Minnesota. You pointed this out, Ed. You know, investing
in infrastructure, investing in education, raising wages in the Minnesota
economy, even though states are very similar is simply outperforming what
Wisconsin been able to do today.

SCHULTZ: What about that Genevieve.

WOOD: We`ll talk about Minnesota.

SCHULTZ: Let`s talk about Minnesota.

WOOD: Yeah. You`re from there (ph).

SCHULTZ: If you want to filibuster Genevieve, go right ahead.

WOOD: No, no, I though you -- I`m picking up on his point. Minnesota has
now a Democratic governor. But in 2000 up until 2010 they had a
Republican. I believe that Republican had the state legislation from 2013.
So I don`t know how many liberal policies you actually you have in play
there, but again if you look Wisconsin.

PAUL: You have a lot. You`ve an infrastructure investment raising the
minimum wage investing in teachers raising teacher`s salary, cutting
classroom size.

WOOD: And we`ll see.

PAUL: I mean, these are not necessarily Republican policies and Minnesota
is growing.

WOOD: We`ll see all of that place out over the long-term. But Ed, you got
to look at the larger picture here.

SCHULTZ: Wait a minute. OK, hold it right there. OK, hold it. That`s a
generic statement. We`ll see what happens in the long-term.

WOOD: Yeah. I was right

SCHULTZ: Let`s go with the facts. We have got two different states here.
We have Minnesota that said, you know, what the wealthy has to pay a little
bit more, we`re going to do something on infrastructure which Scott Walker
declined over in Wisconsin.

WOOD: But Ed.

SCHULTZ: Now, wait a minute I`m not done here. There`s about 12 different
things and have definitely taken place with a two philosophical approaches.
There was no attack on wage earners in Minnesota the way it there was in
Wisconsin. There was no attack on education, public education whether it
was in Wisconsin. And what we`re seeing is side by side to political
philosophies working, trying to work in Minnesota, trying to work in
Wisconsin and definitely working for the people in Minnesota.

WOOD: Ed, what is the problem?

SCHULTZ: What`s wrong? So question is Genevieve.

WOOD: Because I don`t understand.

SCHULTZ: What`s wrong with Minnesota, what`s wrong with Minnesota?

WOOD: I didn`t say there was anything wrong with Minnesota.

SCHULTZ: OK. Well then if...

WOOD: What I don`t understand is what is wrong with Wisconsin.


WOOD: If you have a 4.6 unemployment rate which is basically full
employment, then how do you say there`s a huge job problem in Wisconsin?
Most of the people there have a job -- who wants a job actually have one,
which isn`t true in a lot of other states in the country.

SCHULTZ: OK. All right. So you think low wage employment is moving the
dime forward. Low wage employment. Because as Scott said the household
income went down 14 percent. I think it`s a perfect story for the country
to pay attention to. Because we`ve got...

WOOD: Well Ed, people. Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... conflicting political philosophies on how to create jobs.
One state has done it. Another state has not.

WOOD: OK, so here`s what.

SCHULTZ: But I guess Scott Walker overpromised.

WOOD: No -- I do think he overpromised to what he wanted to do and what he
needed to do frankly when it came to job creation there. But number two
look, the people who have lived under these policies as have mentioned on
the show several times have elected Scott Walker three times. And if you
want to look, well the policies really true.

SCHULTZ: At seven to one that`s right he has, he has. There is no
question about that. But that doesn`t make him correct, OK on the issues
and it doesn`t suffice the record that he is unable to achieve.

WOOD: The majority of people in Wisconsin who vote apparently think he`s
been correct and they happen to like their economy.

SCHULTZ: That`s right.

WOOD: Or I don`t think they keep sending him back to office.

PAUL: I would say the facts don`t lie, the facts don`t lie in Wisconsin
underperforms the rest of the country, ranks in the low 30s at best.

WOOD: If you would receive liberal policies that it`s best. Why don`t we
look another neighbor in the Midwest called Illinois and see how well
they`re doing? The less (ph) has been running that state for years and I
would love to look at their numbers compared to Wisconsin and other states
of the country.

SCHULTZ: Well, we`re not. We`re looking at Minnesota.

WOOD: Because you did (inaudible).

SCHULTZ: Genevieve Wood, Scott Paul. Good to have you with us tonight.
I`m disappointed how filibuster you got tonight Genevieve. I thought I
would have expected more from you. Thank you. I appreciate your time.

Up next, the Brady bombshell. The NFL says Patriot star quarterback Tom
Brady knew about Deflategate.

And Donald Trump continues to lead the Republican field despite a new
controversy. That`s ahead.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. He`s going to sit the bench.
Breaking News out of the NFL, today NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell upheld
Tom Brady`s four game suspension in Deflategate. Based on the Wells Report
and evidence from the appeal hearing, Goodell concluded that Brady was
aware of and took steps to support actions of team employees to deflate

Goodell alleged Brady destroyed his cellphone just before he met with
investigators. The NFL said in a statement, smacked him down big time.
"Brady`s deliberate destruction of potentially relevant evidence went
beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a
finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the
underlying scheme to alter the footballs."

In May the Wells Report found Brady probably knew about footballs being
deflated in last season`s AFC championship game against the Colts. Or
earlier this month NFL players` association sources told a reporter that
Brady would challenge this ruling in federal court if he lost.

For more let me bring in Terence Moore, National Sports Columnist and great
to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: This is about the worst thing that could happen to Tom Brady. To
have the NFL come out and deliver smack down statement. This other
information would have never got out had he have not challenged it. How do
you read this, Terence?

MOORE: I would tell you what Ed to put this in perspective in more than
two years of Watergate, Richard Nixon never destroyed the tapes. This guy
Tom Brady, the first day he`s going to see the NFL cops he destroys his
cellphone, OK. It is a wrap right there. It`s totally disgusting what`s
going on here. And there`s no question that Tom Brady is going to make the
NFL hall of fame with the four Super Bowl ring or whatever.

But not only did he destroy that cellphone. And again that was damning
thing right there. He also damaged his image as sort this poster boy for
the NFL forever. And look, he`s threw his own father under the bus. And
he`s father out there defending him. In all he`s apologist out there and
probably the worst thing of all he`s still out there saying he`s innocent
when everybody knows this guy is lying through his teeth.

SCHULTZ: Well, this is an issue of character at the point, isn`t it?

MOORE: It is. Very mush so.

SCHULTZ: I mean, how can Tom Brady come out and defend his character after
the NFL makes a statement like that?

MOORE: Well he can`t. And, you know, you mention the NFL. And I am very
pleasantly surprised that the NFL came down with this ruling. Because I
was thoroughly convinced that Roger Goodell was going to play good cop/bad
cop. Because when the original ruling came down he had one of his
lieutenants, Troy Vincent, come out and make that ruling so it was very
convenient for Roger Goodell to come back now and just to reduce he`s game
from four games to say two or three. And come out riding with the white
horse so to speak.

But what was happening Ed behind the scenes a lot of NFL owners were
whispering in his ear telling him not to back down. Because a lot of
people in NFL are sick of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick checking he`s entire
image that they have of being goody two shoes guys in the forefront but
behind the scenes being much less than that.

SCHULTZ: All right, let`s talk legacy. Is he going to be remembered as
one of the all-time great or one of the all time great cheaters?

MOORE: More so the latter. Because here is the other thing. We got this
going on here. We got Deflategate. You have Spygate back there. And
here`s the other thing, that people don`t about. Remember last year the
NFL had to change its rule book because of the substitution patterns of
Brady and Belichick. And you also have them spending the decades out there
fooling around with the scouting report or injury report, I should say.

So God knows what else is out there lying in the weeds. You start put
these all together as time goes on people are going to be talking about
this as much as what he did on the field and legacy wise that is not a good

SCHULTZ: National sport columnist Terence Moore with us here tonight here
on the Ed Show. Appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

Still to come on the Ed Show, why Trump is beating every Republican to the

Stay with us. We`re right back.

Market Wrap.

Well, stocks jumping sharply after five straight days have declines. The
DOW surging 189 points, the S&P climbing 25 and the NASDAQ adding 49.

Will Twitter shares have also been up more than 6 percent after hours that
reported of revenue and earnings that beat estimates.

Well, profits from UPS came in better than expected to sending that stock
up 5 percent. And Federal Reserve policy makers began a two-day meeting,
investors will be looking for clues about the future of rates and the
central bank statement tomorrow.

That`s it from CNBC, where first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Well, political experts, go figure.
Donald Trump is still leading the pack of Republicans despite being
surrounded by controversy. The newest Monmouth University poll shows New
Hampshire voters are giving Trump twice the support they give in bush. The
poll was taken in the aftermath of Trump`s controversial comments about
Senator John McCain status is a war hero.

Now Trump is facing resurfacing legal allegations. Overnight (ph) the
Daily Beast publish an explosive article bringing up allegations first made
in a book back in 1993. It saying one of Trump`s ex-wives had described a
violent assault during a deposition for their divorce.

Meanwhile, last night on Fox News Sean Hannity asked Trump why he thinks
why he was doing so well in the polls.


TRUMP: I guess we engender some great love because I have the biggest
crowds of anybody by far and have the biggest standing ovations. People
agree. I`m not sure they like me. But they certainly like my message. I
hope they like me. I think I`m a nice guy. I`m tired after walking all
talk, no action politicians. The only thing they want to do is to keep
their job. And that just not forme and resonates with all of these people
that are for Trump.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Rapid Response panel Caroline Heldman
Professor Politics in Occidental college, also with us tonight Bruce
Bartlett former Deputy Assistance, Secretary for Economic policy to George
H.W. Bush, great to have both of you with us.

Professor, you first on this. What is it is that Trump is saying that is
so appealing at this point? It`s got to be beyond "the apprentice" at this

with you ED. I think he`s appealing to the racial resentment as well as
the anti-intellectualism that became really popular with the surgeons of
the Tea Party movement and the Republican Party.

So, I don`t think all Republicans like him. I think hi message or his
messages really appealing to a select group of Republicans and we know from
polling data that these tend to be older white men. So i don`t actually
think the resurfacing of the rape allegations will harm him. We certainly
didn`t see the racism. We saw his polls increase after he made racist
remarks and they didn`t shift with his McCain guffaw.

So, I don`t that they`ve going to shift for this particular group.
Although we don`t think he win a general election or even a Republican

SCHULTZ: Bruce, why do you think that Trump will make the Republican Party
sane again?

Well, my hope is that he will in fact get the Republican nomination and
that he will proceed to lose all 50 states. Because I believe that the
craziness that he in fact represents that has taken hold of the Republican
party over the last 10 years since the rise of the Tea Party is not a
winnable -- a winning coalition. And it has to be completely destroyed.
Salt plowed into the earth. Then maybe phoenix-like, a new sane, pragmatic
Republican Party can arise that can in fact win the White House.

SCHULTZ: So Bruce what are these debates going to look like? I mean,
Trump apparently has tapped into a real frustration of career politicians
who say one thing, go to Washington and do something else and get hooked up
in the system and think about themselves instead of the constituents. I
mean, that`s basically where Trump is in all of this. And so, how does
that sit on the debate stage when he`s attacked all of these guys?

BARTLETT: Well, I think it`s important to understand that what is -- the
people that are supporting Trump are not supporting him because of any
positions that he holds on any issues. They have an attitude of having a
chip on their shoulder that they are being oppressed in some way and he is
somehow or other the guy, like in the old network movie, who is just not
going to take it anymore. And he has somehow given them voice. And it`s
the voice of the know-nothing. It`s the voice of people who`re angry but
can`t even tell you what they are angry at. And somehow or other he has
given them -- he is their candidate.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Caroline, nobody saw Trump coming. Nobody saw Bernie
Sanders coming. Has the mainstream media does not have their pulse on
where America is and maybe miscalculated what is angst or frustration or
maybe even anger out there not being portrayed but being brought out by
these candidates? What do you make of that?

HELDMAN: Well, perhaps Ed although I think with Trump it`s more of kind of
a train wreck draw. And with Bernie Sanders it`s more his ideology. But I
don`t think either of them get the nomination or win the general election
certainly not. Bruce, I wish I were as optimistic, I would vote for Trump
just to make that happen. But his unfavorables are 58 percent right now.
So not only will he not get the Republican nomination, because he won`t fly
with a general Republican audience. He certainly won`t win a general
election. But if you were put up against Hillary Clinton, you`re right he
would lose in all 50 states.

SCHULTZ: Well, you mean he wouldn`t win. Now both of you said this. He
wouldn`t win state? He wouldn`t win Alabama? I mean, he wouldn`t win
Mississippi? I mean, I think there are people in this country that simply
will not vote for a Democrat and they would be fearful if Bernie Sanders an
admitted socialist and populist would be in there. I mean and I think when
push comes to shove they would say we can`t give the Democrats the White
House again. Bruce, don`t you see that happening in some way feasibility

BARTLETT: Well, you have to realize these people that dominate the
Republican primary, the Tea Party people, the Koch operations, they don`t
care about electability. They care about their principles, their precious
principles. But they can`t even tell you exactly what they are. And I
think that they would rather keep control of the Republican Party and lose
than permit the kind of cleansing that I think is necessary to allow a new
generation of leaders that are pragmatic and not just dogmatic idea logs,
which is the description of every single Republican running right today.

SCHULTZ: Interesting. Caroline Heldman, Bruce Bartlett, great to have
both you with us tonight. I appreciate your time on the Ed Show. Thanks
so much.

Which of the 16 Republican presidential candidates will make it to the Fox
debate stage next week?

That is ahead. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse poll on the Ed Show.
Question, "Do you want to know where Hillary Clinton stands on Keystone XL
pipeline?" 85 percent say "Yes." You can keep on voting till the end of
the hour at

We`re coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, some of the Republicans aren`t making the cut for Fox
News debate night. They aren`t happy about it either.


was the only candidate that went out there and blasted them. And now more
and more people are blasting away including pundits and others who
recognize that this is -- this is a folly.

SCHULTZ: We`ll talk about who`s going to be there and who`s getting

Keep it right here. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, I guess we`re coming down to the wire.
Republican presidential candidates, it seems like they`re scrambling, doing
anything they can to jump their poll numbers in the final week. You see,
they have one week left before Fox News announces who makes the cut for the
first Republican debate. Fox is capping the august 6th debate at 10

The invitation list is based on the average of five unspecified national
polls released on august 4th. So it`s going to go to the wire. It is a

NBC News crunched the numbers from the last five polls. Here`s how we
think it`s going to look. Donald Trump is at the top. Jeb bush is going
to end up in second place. Scott Walker will make the cut. Marco Rubio is
also in. Rand Paul will be next. Ted Cruz, he`s got the next spot
followed by Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson takes the eighth spot, the last two
spots, well, they`re pretty tricky. They`re really up for grabs.
According to the latest numbers Chris Christie`s going to be number nine
and Rick Perry sneaks in at the tenth and final spot.

Now, the final lineup could come down to actually decimal points. Luckily
Fox News has set up a presidential forum for everyone who gets shut out of
the Cleveland debate. The latest numbers show that Governor John Kasich
missing the debate by 0.2 percentage point. Kasich may not even earn a
place to debate in his own home state.

Joining me now Bob Shrum, Warschaw Professor of Politics at USC and
Democratic Strategist. Well, once you get the picture there of all the
folks who are going to be on stage, what`s it look like? How would you
rate that as a think tank, Bob Shrum?

BOB SHRUM, PROFESSOR USC: I wouldn`t necessarily rate it very highly as a
thing tank. I have some sympathy, and I never thought I would say this,
for Fox News. You take a 90 minute debate, you have 10 candidates they`ll
going to get about seven minutes apiece after you have the fill-ins, the
questions and all the rest of it.

But right now I think you have Jeb Bush the dynamic of this since going to
have a huge audience. You have Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, at all deciding
whether or not and preparing to try to pull off events some Quayle moment
where they rebuke Donald Trump in a way that takes him down. Now it`s very
tough to do because he`s very resilient and he`ll come right back at them.
The one guys who`s not. Go ahead, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Well, I mean I just want to remind our listeners, our viewers of
that, that it was that moment when he said, i knew Jack Kennedy and you`re
no Jack Kennedy. And I remember Quayle just looking at him. I don`t think
Donald Trump would look -- I think Donald Trump would fire right back at
any one of these guys verbally and might even trip his trigger. I mean,
it`s Interesting you bring that up.

SHRUM: But they`re going to have gamed that out. They`re going to look
for that moment. Now, the one guy who isn`t looking for that moment is
Cruz. Because if Trump falls off the buckboard of bigotry, Cruz wants to
take the reins and ride it all the way to nomination and I agree with Bruce
Bartlett your last segment. Trump or more likely Cruz could be the
Republican nominee. By the way, I agree with you. They`d be likely to
carry about 40 states.

Now what`s going to happen here in the rest of this debate, the secondary
characters and the J.V. or Junior Varsity debate as I call it, are going to
try to take a lesson from Trump and say really outrageous things so they
can dominate the commentary and so somehow whether they can get a foothold
in this race. I mean, we have all seen Mike Huckabee in the last couple of
days compare the Iran accord to Hitler and the holocaust.


SHRUM: There will be plenty to rebuke and at times in this debate what has
been called the GOP clown car is going to look like the Gong show.

SCHULTZ: I don`t see in a seven-minute total period of time, if that`s how
it breaks down as you say. I mean, I could be more than that a minute or
so either way.

SHRUM: Right.

SCHULTZ: I don`t see Trump hurting himself. I mean, I think he`s got the
media moxie and he`s shifty enough and crafty enough where I just don`t
think he`s going to get pinned down in that kind of a format. Now it`s one
on one or two or three or four, that might be a little bit different. What
do you think?

SHRUM: Well, I think the fact that the speaking time is so limited for
each candidate means that, while Trump can inflict a lot of damage on
himself, lord knows he`s tried in the last few weeks and he`s gone up in
the polls. The worse things he says, the better he seems to do. I do
think that you have people who are smart around Bush, around Rubio, around
Walker who are saying how do we take this guy on? And by the way, they do
have to take him on. Because if they don`t, they look like they`re part of
that planet Trump, the 30 percent of the Republican party that`s so
extreme, that so far out of the mainstream that anybody who caters to that,
as Romney was forced to in 2012.


SHRUM: Is not going to win a general election. So these guys have to face
Trump and they ought to try and turn it to their advantage.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, you`ve counseled a lot candidates in your career.
What`s the advice to Hillary Clinton on Keystone?

SHRUM: Well, to say what she thinks. To come out and take a position
because I think. She`s being hurt more at this point among some elements
of the party and among the general public by the fact that she doesn`t
appear to be willing to just say what she thinks. And I think she`d be a
lot better off just saying what she thinks as a general rule. By the way,
Trump is an extreme example of that, because he says what he thinks and
what he thinks is wacky. Whatever she thinks on Keystone is reasonable and
defensible and she ought to just say it.

SCHULTZ: Well, and that`s what -- I mean, there are people who`ve
certainly supported it. It`s about split down the middle. And I don`t why
she won`t do it. What do you make of her answer about well she was
secretary of state as part of the process. Is that does that fly?

SHRUM: Well, you know, she may believe that and she may feel that having
been part of the process she has to wait for it to be completed before she
can say anything.


SHRUM: But at this point with these questions being raised about whether
you can trust her, whether she talks`s straight, I think she`d just be
better off saying it. Look, she`s almost certain to be the Democratic
nominee. And I certainly want her to win that election.


SHRUM: But I think right now -- and Bernie Sanders, by the way, is a
serious threat to her.


SHRUM: I think right now she ought to just say what she thinks.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, great to have you with us.

That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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