The Ed Show for Wednesday, July 29th, 2015
Read the transcript to the Wednesday show
Show: THE ED SHOW
Date: July 29, 2015
Guest: Bernie Sanders, Howard Dean, Mercedes Schlapp, Terence Moore, Donte
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Keystone decision, I will
certainly express my opinion when there is something to express an opinion
about. I am sorry if people want me to. I`ve been very clear I will not
express an opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, procrastinating politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With congress`s long august recess within reach.
Lawmakers still have a number of issues to tackle before that break starts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we return in September they`re going to be a
number of issues that have remove fast.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: I`m going to do everything I can
to get to a long-term highway bill by the end of October.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mike grab (ph)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The comment about the holocaust and the ovens and the
Iran deal. Where do you stand on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I`m OK with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks
for watching. We start this evening with two very important issues. Every
single American should care about. Because it`s going to effect the
climate and it is going to affect our economy in the long run, the Trans-
Pacific Partnership and the Keystone XL pipeline. No they are not old
tired issues. They are staring this country in the face.
Now we`ve devoted extensive coverage on this show to both issues. I`ve
traveled to Nebraska and met with the landowners who would have the
Keystone XL pipeline running right through their land. And eminent domain
is a big issue there now. I heard their concerns about property rights and
environmental issues. They don`t want a huge pipe filled with poison
running through their water supply or on top of it and that is a big risk.
I`ve also traveled around the country listening to Americans on the Trans-
Pacific Partnership and who would be affected. I`ve visited Lorain, Ohio
and heard first hands stories of jobs being lost because of the bad free
trade agreements of this country has embarked on. These are hugely
important issues that unions and environmental groups deeply care about,
that definitely lean left into the Democrats.
Meanwhile, the Democratic front-runner for president is refusing to take a
position on both of these issues. On Tuesday Hillary Clinton gave this non
answer on the Keystone XL pipeline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As president, would you sign a bill, yes or no please
in favor of allowing the Keystone XL pipeline.
CLINTON: Well, as you know, I was the secretary of state who started that
process. I was the one who put into place the investigation. I have now
passed it off, as obvious because I`m no longer there, to Secretary Kerry.
This is President Obama`s decision. And I am not going to second guess
him. Because I was in a position to set this in motion and I do not think
that would be the right thing to do. So I want to wait and see what he and
Secretary Kerry decide. If it`s undecided when I become president I will
answer your question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: A short time later, Clinton doubled down on her refusal to answer
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I was involved in this process. And my assessment is that it is
not appropriate nor fair for me to pre judge in a public arena what
Secretary Kerry and President Obama eventually have to decide. And
therefore I will not do it. And I am sorry if people want me to. I`ve
been very clear. I will not express an opinion until they have made a
decision. And then I will do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: That is such a dodge. Just a day after promising not to answer
the question, Clinton sent out a tweet saying this. We`re not going back
to denying climate change. If you ask most of these Republican candidates
about that, they will say "Sorry I`m not a scientist. Look I`m not a
scientist either, I`m just a grandmother with two eyes and a brain."
She`s also one of the most powerful political figures in this country and
people deserve an answer, not just a grandmother. It is easy to attack
Republicans on climate change. I believe if Clinton wants to be serious
about climate change she has to take a stand on the Keystone XL pipeline
because of what`s going to be in it. Tar sands oil. Then we have Trans-
Pacific Partnership. Clinton is refusing to take a position on the TPP.
She is using the same excuse for not taking a stand on Keystone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: If you look at both the trade agreement and the Keystone decision
I will certainly express my opinion when there is something to express an
opinion about. Right now anybody whose talking about this really has to be
shooting in the dark because we don`t know what`s either going to be in the
trade agreement. And my hope is that my concerns that have been made both
publicly and privately to the administration, will certainly effect how
this trade agreement is written and agreed to.
And similarly on Keystone, it is likely to be decided in this
administration. But if it`s not, I will have responsibility. And you know
I don`t want to make too much of this because I`m very clear and have been
consistently that I do not think it appropriate for me to comment on
something that I had official responsibilities for until it is completed.
And that I might have official responsibilities for again. So that is
where I stand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: OK. She`s got that answer down pretty good. But again, I think
it`s a political dodge. There is no law anywhere that says that the person
running for president can`t comment on any issue under the sun. It is not
going to put anymore pressure on president Obama. It is not going to put
anymore pressure on secretary of state John Kerry, who works for the
If Hillary Clinton I think who wants to be the next president of the United
States, she needs to step out and she needs to come clean and needs to
answer on these two very important issues. They effect climate change, the
environment and the outsourcing of American jobs, which of course the
Republicans really don`t seem to care about.
Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Will Hillary Clinton`s refusal to take a position on the TPP and
Keystone XL hurt her in the long run? Go to pulse.msnbc.com/ED to cast
your vote. We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.
For more let me bring in Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont who was running
for president. Senator, good to have you with us. You have reacted to her
refusal to give an answer on Keystone. Secretary Clinton has come back and
said that bringing this up is shooting in the dark. What is your response
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I strongly
disagree. I mean, we know exactly where the oil is coming from. It is tar
sands oil. The issue here is, Ed, if we are serious about combatting
climate change, which the scientists tell us is the major environmental
crisis facing our planet, we have got to do everything we can to prevent
the excavation and transportation of the some of the dirtiest fossil fuel
on earth. I think this Keystone pipeline idea is a terrible idea. I`m
against it and frankly I think Secretary Clinton should be speaking out on
SCHULTZ: Well, we`ve got to pattern answer from the candidate Clinton.
She says that because she was secretary of state it`s not appropriate for
her to comment on these two major issues. What is your reaction to that?
Is that political cover or is there merit to that answer as you see it?
SANDERS: No, I don`t think there is merit to that answer. She`s a
candidate for president of the United States. Climate change is one of the
great issues that all of us have got to deal with and I think the people
are entitled to know her opinion on the issue.
SCHULTZ: It is true her she did start the study on this, which was later
debunked because there were some, conflict of interest is going on and then
the State Department had to come back and do another one. So they are not
operating under the same investigation that they were under her watch as
secretary of state, does that have merit?
SANDERS: No, I don`t think. I don`t think it does -- they did studies and
that`s fine when she was secretary of state. We can argue about the merits
or not merits of it. And I share the concerns on many people about some of
those studies. But the point is she`s not secretary of state now. She`s a
candidate for the president of the United States. This is enormously
important issue. You could say you are for it. You could say you are
against it but I think should have an opinion on that issue.
SCHULTZ: Senator, do you think that her non committal on these two issues
is going to help your campaign because you have been so crystal clear on
SCHULTZ: Well, you know, I think, Ed that people are willing to say well,
I disagree with somebody. But I think there is a feeling that people
should at least have an opinion on the most important trade agreement ever
entered into why the United States of America. I happen to think TPP is
the continuation of disastrous trade policies which have cost us millions
of jobs. I`m against it. Secretary should have a position on it.
I think that the Keystone pipeline is excavating and transporting some of
the dirtiest fuel on earth. I think if we`re serious about addressing
climate change, the secretary should have an opinion on that as well.
SCHULTZ: Well, if she is -- for doing something about climate change, what
difference does it make who the president is now or what decision`s on his
desk? I guess my question is, is her loyalty to the climate and the future
of the country or the president of the United States who hasn`t made a
decision. Your thoughts?
SANDERS: I don`t think it`s a question of the president of the United
States either, a loyalty. It`s not a question of loyalty. She is a
candidate. You can agree with the President. You can disagree with the
President. But when running for office and these are two of the monumental
issues that we`re facing, I think it is obligatory for you to speak out
and tell the American people what your view is.
SCHULTZ: All right. All of the unions and I mean, not some all of them in
this country are against the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Yet, Secretary
Clinton refuses to take a position on that. What`s the hold up here as you
see it? What would be the hold up? The deal is about 99 percent done.
They`re down to a couple of small issues when it comes to the Canadians and
the dairy products and how much they have to accept. This deal everybody I
talk to is just about there. Her refusal to give a position, is this an
opening for you? I mean, is this something your campaign is going to
SANDERS: Well look, Ed, I think what the American people want is to know
your views on the important issues. And of course we have and will
highlight this. Look, again, you know, I think -- and every trade union in
America as you have just indicated, understands that our trade policies
have been disastrous. They have cost us millions of jobs. They`re forcing
American workers to compete against people who make pennies an hour.
We`ve lost 60,000 factories since 2001. And I think what the American
people are saying, we need a new trade direction. We need corporate
America start investing in this country, creating jobs in this country
rather than abroad. That is my view. The secretary can agree, she can
disagree. But I think you got have to have a position on that issue, on
Keystone. You can`t quite not, you know, have a clear stated position.
SCHULTZ: Senator, there`s quite a debate going on in Congress right now
about the Iranian nuclear deal that the President obviously wants to see
the Congress approve. The majority of Americans, a slight majority of
Americans say that the Congress should not approve it. What is your
position on this? And what happens if the congress does not approve this?
Where does this leave us with Iran in your opinion?
SANDERS: Well, I think the last part of your question is the $64 question
here, Ed. I have not made a definitive statement on my view. I am leaning
towards supporting the agreement based on what I know. I`ve got some
meetings coming up in the next week which will provide some important
answers to me. I applaud the President and I applaud Secretary Kerry for
doing everything they can to try to make sure that Iran does not have a
nuclear weapon. And you do that without a war.
A war would be a terrible, terrible thing. And I got to tell you, Ed, I
get very nervous hearing some of my Republican friends apparently not
knowing what the war in Afghanistan was about, what the war in Iraq was
about and are talking rather blighty (ph) about oh well we may have to go
to war about Iran. I worry about that very, very much. So I am leaning
toward supporting the agreement there are questions that I still have that
I want to see answered.
SCHULTZ: And what is your number one question?
SANDERS: Well, my number one question is whether or not this agreement in
fact is verifiable, whether in fact Iran is going to do what they say they
SCHULTZ: OK. Senator tell us about your grassroots gathers tonight. I
understand it`s something that is almost of a record proportion. What is
going on tonight?
SANDERS: Well, Ed, it is. I think it`s kind of unprecedented. Tonight
about 7:00, we are going to be holding some 3,000 organizational meetings.
We think about 100,000 people have signed up. And the purpose of this
meeting is to help people get deeply involved in the campaign at a
grassroots level. I think we`re going to win this thing if we can put
together a strong grassroots movement. Tonight is an important first step
in putting that movement together.
SCHULTZ: How encouraged are you by the recent polling? You have not taken
a step back since this whole thing started.
SANDERS: Now we`re feeling pretty good. And what I`m especially feeling
good about is the match ups with Republicans. You know, a lot of people
with say well Bernie Sanders, good ideas, nice guy. But he can`t defeat
Republicans. Well, turns out that we were ahead in a recent CNN poll of
both Scott Walker, Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. So, you know, I think we`re
running strong against the Republicans. I think we can defeat them. And I
think our job now is to win the primary and caucus process.
SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, best of luck to you. Good to have you
with us here tonight on the Ed Show. Appreciate your time. Thanks so
Remember to answer tonight`s question at pulse.msnbc.com/ED. We`ll have
the results right after the break. Follow us on Facebook and like us
there. Appreciate that and watch my Facebook feature at WeGotEd and give
me a minute and of course you can get my video Podcast at WeGotEd.com.
Donald Trump says he`s on board with Mike Huckabee`s holocaust comments.
The Rapid Response panel reacts ahead.
Stay with us. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: And the numbers are coming in. Here`s where we stand on
tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s question "Will Hillary Clinton`s
refusal to take a position on the TPP and Keystone XL hurt her in the long
run?" 58 percent of you say "Yes". 42 percent of you say "No". You know,
you can keep on voting throughout this hour at pulse.msnbc.com/ED.
And we`re coming right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Now, the main differences between
Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are really coming down to two issues.
The Keystone XL pipeline and the Trans-Pacific Partnership. You just heard
senator Bernie Sanders give his take on both issues. The question for
Democratic voters is, will these issues make them less likely to believe in
one candidate or the other?
Joining me now is Howard Dean, former government of Vermont and former
presidential candidate, and Mercedes Schlapp also with us tonight, Republic
Strategist and former spokesperson for President George W. Bush, great to
have both of you with us tonight.
Governor Dean, I`ll go to you first on this. Secretary Clinton says that
she can`t give an answer because she was secretary of state. Does that
give her political cover? Or is that a legitimate reason she can`t answer
two of the biggest questions out there right now.
FRM. GOV. HOWARD DEAN, (D) VERMORT: Well, I think it`s legitimate because
she was in charge of making a recommendation to President Obama. And I`m
not sure what was in that recommendation. But the President may well act
on this before the end of his term. I suspect he will. So for her to take
-- step outside her role as the candidate and reveal what she recommended
to President Obama in this process I don`t think is right. So I don`t
think she has a lot of choice about the Keystone pipeline.
SCHULTZ: How can you be an advocate for doing something about climate
change and even think about allowing tar sands oil to come to market,
DEAN: Well, the truth about the Keystone pipeline is, what it really is an
effort to keep oil in the ground which is a position that I think a lot of
environmentalists take. Actually burning oil creates a lot of carbon in
the atmosphere. The fact that its tar sands oil is not quite as -- the
case is not quite as compelling. People are focusing on that. But the
real agenda is stopping burning fossil fuels at all. And so, my own view
of the Keystone pipeline is that, it probably has some environmental
consequences but not very many relative to the real goal which is to stop
burning fossil fuels and start burning renewables.
SCHULTZ: Mercedes Schlapp, this would be red meat to Republicans. They
can`t get Hillary on the record. Her own party can`t get her on the
record. What do you think about that?
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, you know, I think at this
point the ones that are looking and trying to figure out Hillary`s position
are the Democratic voters. I mean, what you`re seeing her is the fact that
she doesn`t want to give direct responses. However, when you look at TPP
when she was secretary of state she said it was a gold standard and now she
may have to flip-flop on the issue. So I think she has ore own troubles in
the campaign trying to give that straightforward answer, that you`re not --
that you`re seeing with Bernie Sanders. It`s interesting.
Senator Sanders just comes out and makes a very straightforward answer.
And I think what you are seeing is for example in states like Iowa and New
Hampshire, voters are responding. They like it. They want to see more of
it. And I think it`s just unfortunate for Hillary Clinton if she doesn`t
come forward and really state what she`s thinking about, especially on
Keystone and on the other issues.
SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, is that Bernie Sanders strength right now, his
straight talk on issues?
DEAN: I think he`s strength definitely. I mean, he`s always been a
straight talker and not afraid to make decisions about issues. But there`s
something -- a little something here that we`re forgetting. Hillary
Clinton was a member of Obama`s administration. She has a view on TPP
which is probably the state department`s view, which in fact -- and I
personally share this view. I have a lot of concerns about TPP. However,
TPP is really important to the United States geopolitically because of
what`s going on in the South China Sea. And I spent time in Vietnam and
that`s the first thing on their agenda is some sort of TPP
So, this is not an easy issue. And Bernie because he`s not an incumbent
gets to say whatever he wants. Hillary Clinton because she`s served in
this administration has to be much more careful about what she says about
things that have a huge effect on international relationships. And I think
as the former secretary of state she understands that.
SCHULTZ: Does this, Mercedes, play into the poll where a lot of people
think Hillary isn`t trustworthy? If you can`t give a straight answer I
would imagine it plays into that. Maybe I`m wrong on that. Your thoughts?
SCHLAPP: Well, it could be part of that but I think what`s driving her
poll numbers down on that question of trustworthiness is clearly her
inability to talk about the private server and the e-mails and the deleted
e-mails and that whole controversy in addition to the Clinton foundation
situation. So I think those two are the big drivers for Hillary Clinton.
I think just not being able to give a direct answer. We saw this with the
CNN interview where you had those in media coming out and basically saying
she sounded rusty. That it didn`t come across genuine. Those are issues
playing into the fact that I believe voters are questioning her
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Governor, do you think people care about her e-mails?
DEAN: No. And I`m not worried about this issue. I do agree with Mercedes
that`s what`s driven her poll numbers down. But what`s going to happen is
exactly what happened when all the Clinton foundation start blew up.
There`s no story there. It was a lie. The New York Times is basically as
told as run front page stories that have been untruthful twice and gotten
caught both times.
So, the public it`s going to sink into public that isn`t true. This is
another attempt to smear Hillary Clinton and the Clintons. Just like what
Whitewater just like Vince Foster suicide, just like Benghazi. And she`ll
bound back from that so I`m not worried in the long run about, I do think
this probably responsible for her different poll numbers.
SCHULTZ: And Mercedes, can a candidate like Bernie Sanders make some real
head way in a campaign or movement without running a negative ad?
SCHLAPP: Well, I think that`s going to be quite difficult for him to not
run a negative ad at some point. When you look, for example, anyone who`s
been on a campaign, I work in a campaign. Negative ads actually do work.
So, I think it`s difficult to stay away from that. As we know again voters
respond to negative campaigns. It`s interesting that we say we don`t want
to see the negative campaigns. But we know that can shift poll numbers.
I think for Bernie Sanders he has other difficult issues that he had to
deal with like building a grassroots coalition. Really reaching out to the
African-American community, and to the Latino community that obviously
Hilary Clinton has a very strong hold on those two minority community. So
he`s going to have other issues to deal with.
SCHLAPP: Besides not running a negative ad.
SCHULTZ: All right. Mercedes, and Governor Howard Dean, stay with us.
We`ve got Huckabee and Trump talk coming up a little later on.
Tom Brady plays defense saying he did nothing wrong after the NFL upholds
his suspension for Deflategate.
And outrage after a Minnesota dentist kills a well known lion in Africa,
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. The brutal slaying of beloved Cecil
the lion in Zimbabwe is causing an up roar worldwide tonight. The
Minnesota dentist who killed the animal is now speaking out. 55-year-old
Walter Palmer sent a letter to his patients say "I understand and respect
not shares the same views on hunting.
Conservation officials have arrested the local guide who reportedly lured
the lion out its game preserved for Palmer to hunt it.
NBC`s Kevin Tibbles has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN TIBBLES, NBC`S NEWS REPORTER: He was known as the pride of Zimbabwe.
Cecil the lion. The most famous animal in that country`s national parks, a
favorite of locals and tourists from around the world. Until earlier this
month, when the 13-year-old big cat was killed by an American hunter.
According to conservation officials Cecil was lured out of the game
preserve, shot first with a bow and arrow. Then 40 hours after being
stalked the severely animal was finished off with a gun, skinned and
On Tuesday the name of the man responsible for the killing was revealed.
55-year-old Walter Palmer, a Minneapolis dentist and lifelong game hunter.
The killing sparked outrage from around the world and on social media.
JEFF FLOCKEN, INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR ANIMAL WELFAREL: Rich Americans
flying to Africa and killing these animals for sport to mount them on their
walls is just unacceptable.
TIBBLES: Comedian Jimmy Kimmel choked up, taking about Cecil`s death.
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": The big question is, why are you
shooting a lion in the first place? I mean, I`m honest curious if you want
to make this into a positive you can -- sorry. I`m -- OK. I`m good.
TIBBLES: In a statement, Palmer who pled guilty to a license violation
after shooting a black bear in Wisconsin in 2008 says he hired professional
guides in Zimbabwe, secured all the proper permits and has not been
contacted by the authorities. Adding in part "I deeply regret my pursuit
of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the
taking of this lion."
For critics it wasn`t enough. Some leaving stuffed toy animals at his home
and dental office which abruptly closed yesterday. Zimbabwe`s game
officials have arrested Palmer`s guides on charges of poaching and are
looking to talk with the dentist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Here are the facts. Big game hunting is controversial, but it is
regulated as a sport and it`s a big business to folks in that country. The
kind of hunting Walter Palmer was doing is known as canned hunting or
captive hunts. The humane society defines them as the opposite of fair
chase. Shooters at captive hunts pay to kill animals-even endangered
species-trapped behind fences.
There are a number of well known people who are interested in this kind of
hunting. Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trumps sons
reportedly enjoyed big game hunting in Africa. Trump told TMZ reports back
in 2012 "I`m not a believer in hunting and I`m surprised they like it."
In 2006 Troy Gentry of the country music group "Montgomery Gentry" pleaded
guilty to charges of falsely registering a captive bear cub as the wild
kill. The owner of Jimmy John`s Gourmet Sandwiches is apparently a huge
fan of captive hunts. Perhaps the most well known can (ph) hunter is
former Vice President Dick Cheney.
So the issue is this. It`s a problem with a lot of people. But in that
country it is legal and it is big business. So is the problem the kill or
the law or both?
Still to come on the Ed Show, more.
Stay with us. We`re right back.
COURTNEY REAGON, CNBC RETAIL REPORTER: I`m Courtney Reagan with your CNBC
Stocks end higher on this fed decision day. The DOW climbs 121 points, the
S&P adds 15, the NASDAQ is up 22 points.
As expected the Federal Reserve left interest rates unchanged. It also
gave no hints about when it might freeze those rates.
And Facebook`s result beat estimates. Shares have been fluctuating after
hours and Whole Foods shares are sharply lower in late trading. The
company earnings revenue and guidance all fell short of estimate.
That`s it from CNBC, where first in business world.
SCHULTZ: And we are back on the Ed Show. Thanks for watching tonight.
Mike Huckabee has taken full advantage of his controversial holocaust
statement. Huckabee his media blitzes included an interview with a
sympathetic Sean Hannity on Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, HOST OF "THE SEAN HANNITY SHOW": I applaud what you are
saying. We reached a modern day holocaust. That is a fact. Why is that
MIKE HUCKABEE< GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Overwhelmingly the support from
people who understand what I said and why I said is it been incredibly
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: The leader of GOP feel that during Fox News as well Donald Trump
thinks Mike Huckabee slam on Iranian nuclear agreement is OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENCIAL CANDIDATE: I`m OK with it. I think he`s a
very good guy Huckabee by the way. What Mike has done is hate nerve and
he`s made people think a little bit. If he says it nice and softly, maybe
that`s not the way it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Trump blasted Jeb Bush for chastising Huckabee`s tone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Some people are, you know, saying oh the tone. And I saw Jeb Bush,
who I think is also a nice person. But it is not about tone. I mean,
they`re chopping off Christian`s heads in Syria and lots of other places
and we`re worried about tone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Trump is sticking by Huckabee. And it has nothing do with Iran.
It`s the state of Republican politics. Fox News wants to keep the blustery
rhetoric rolling. The network just set up new standards for the
presidential forum, the requirement that participants reach at least 1
percent in national polling averages just got dropped. They`re setting the
bar, the new bar lower so everyone can play ball. Carly Fiorina, George
Pataki and Senator Lindsey Graham face low poll numbers.
They were all were in jeopardy of being disqualified from the debate. We
hate chorus (ph) missed anything they have to say.
Joining us again tonight Governor Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont
and former Presidential candidate, also with us tonight Mercedes Schlapp,
Republican Strategies and former spokesperson for President George W. Bush.
All right, Mercedes, you`re in the Huckabee camp, OK. Let`s play with this
a little bit. You`re in the camp. Good thing, bad thing? What about it?
SCHLAPP: Well, if I were part of his as being he`s communications director
I probably would have said, you know, not the right use of words here. But
I think that these candidates to a certain extent are trying to outtrump
Trump. So it is about coming up with these very I would say almost
provocative one-liners that gabs a media`s attention. They run with it
and, you know, it could energize a voters. So I think to a certain extent
it was interesting to see Donald Trump`s response by saying "Look, he`s a
good guy. And he`s hitting a nerve with this." And it was Huckabee`s way
of basically saying this Iran deal is bad. It`s bad for the Jews and
really coming out with a very strong statement.
SCHULTZ: Well, is it trying to outtrump Trump? Or is this what Huckabee
really believes in his heart? And he`s doubling and tripling down on this.
He has not had the headlines Trump has though.
SCHLAPP: Right. But I think knowing Governor Huckabee he is -- you know,
he`s very passionate about this issue. And he really believes that the
ones that are going to be negatively affected by this Iranian deal is
clearly Israel and the Jews.
And I mean, Secretary Kerry came out a few days ago and basically saying if
this deal doesn`t pass through we`re going to blame the Jews. Well, I
think Governor Huckabee is standing up for the Jews in that sense and
basically saying this is going to be a bad deal for Israel, it`s a bad deal
for America. And guess what, Iran has threatened to murder the Jews. I
mean, they`ve said it. It`s not like it`s the first time this is coming
around. So he`s trying to make a very strong statement with this.
SCHULTZ: Governor, are we seeing a politically savvy move by trump? Not
only did he back Mike Huckabee? He roped Jeb Bush into the whole thing and
ripped him on talking about tone. I mean, does tone matter to Republicans?
DEAN: Tone matters. Let me just defend John Kerry for a moment. I`m
reasonably sure he did not say they were planning on blaming the Jews if
the agreement didn`t pass. I`d like to see the exact quote before we go to
down that road.
SCHLAPP: OK, I`m going to send you the quote governor.
DEAN: I would like that very much. So let`s talk about what`s going on
here. You know, Donald trump has really been masterful. He`s now leading
the polls, he is capitalizing on the anger that exists in one wing of the
Republican Party and Mike Huckabee needs to outtrump Trump in order to win.
Somebody has to win Iowa. And if Mike Huckabee doesn`t win Iowa he`s done.
He`s gone, he`s out the race. So it`s all or nothing for Mike Huckabee.
But he can`t go after Trump because if he does, then that`s the fight
between the two of them and they both lose.
So it is fascinating to see what is going on. It is Republican politics.
And right now Jeb Bush has got to be watching laughing all the way to the
bank. Because in this sort of Donnybrook (ph) of craziness that, he looks
pretty reasonable right now. And voters on both sides generally end up
with a candidate they believe is most reasonably going to be elected
president. And right now that certainly isn`t Mike Huckabee or Donald
SCHULTZ: But the majority of Americans governor are with Mike Huckabee on
this policy. They may not have liked his method. But he is standing in
the majority against this deal. What impact that has, go ahead.
DEAN: That`s interesting, Ed. Because that poll was actually a reversal
of the poll that came out last week that shows most Americans did not
believe that the Iranians would keep their word but were in favor of the
deal. So I think we need to see some more polling information like that,
you know, I don`t believe the Iranians are going to keep their word and I,
you know, the question is, do we want war in the Middle East? I don`t
think we do. Is this deal going to make it more or less likely there is a
war? I think that is the question everybody is trying to ask.
But the to-do over Huckabee and Trump and Huckabee`s language really is not
about whether there`s going to be a war or whether this deal is good or bad
DEAN: Bad deal it`s about language that is intemperate and that`s never
good for somebody who intends to be president of the United States.
SCHULTZ: Did Mike Huckabee get enough pushback from the Republicans on
SCHLAPP: No, absolutely not. I think the only candidate that we saw of
basically saying "Tone it down these aren`t the right word with Governor
Jeb Bush." I think you did see the other Republicans saying, yeah. I
mean, Marco Rubio did say he was not going to comment on what other
candidates are saying. But for the most part there`s this really this
passion about the fact that this Iranian deal is a bad deal for America.
The fact that...
SCHLAPP: ... you`re going to be giving over $150 billion to a country that
sponsors terrorism in the Middle East is very worrisome.
SCHULTZ: What do you make, Mercedes, of Fox changing the rules now so
everybody can play on the debate stage?
SCHLAPP: You know I am really thrilled about that. I think giving all of
these different candidates an opportunity to deliver their message and
basically a format with very, what I find, incredibly wonderful.
SCHLAPP: Very experienced journalists. I think it is just going to be
helpful. It`s going to allow the Republican primary voters to have a very
fair assessment of all these different candidates and I`m just thrilled
that they`re going to be giving them that opportunity.
SCHULTZ: Great to have you both with us. Howard Dean and Mercedes
DEAN: Thanks Ed.
SCHULTZ: Thanks for being on the Ed Show.
SCHLAPP: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: You bet. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady lashes out at the NFL
for upholding his Deflategate suspension. We`ll talk about that ahead
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s
question, "Will Hillary Clintons refusal to take a position on the TPP and
Keystone XL hurt her in the long run. Keep on voting till the end of the
hour at pulse.msnbc.com/Ed.
We`re coming right back. Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, big news out of the NFL. Quarterback Tom
Brady of the Patriots and the owner Robert Kraft are slamming the NFL this
evening for upholding Tom Brady`s suspension in Deflategate. Robert Kraft
didn`t hold back during a press conference earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT KRAFT, PATRIOT OWNER: The decision handed down by the league
yesterday is on unfathomable to me. The league still has no hard evidence
of anybody doing anything to tamper with the PSI levels of footballs. I
continue to believe and unequivocally support Tom Brady.
I was wrong to put my faith in the league. Given the facts, evidence, and
laws of science that underscore this entire situation, it is completely
incomprehensible to me that the league continues to take steps to disparage
one of its all-time great players.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Tom Brady is also going after the league`s ruling. Brady posted
a statement on his Facebook page today that read in part "I`m very
disappointed by the NFL`s decision to uphold the four-game suspension
against me. I did nothing wrong. And no one in the Patriots organization
On Tuesday, the NFL sited Brady`s assistant allegedly destroying his
cellphone as a reason for upholding his punishment. Brady also disagrees
with NFL narrative surrounding is cellphone. He wrote on his Facebook
page, "I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 after my
attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual device would not be
subjected to investigation under any circumstances. I have never written,
text, e-mailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air
pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC championship game in
January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL
information it requested is completely wrong.
The NFL players association said they will appeal what they say is
outrageous decision on behalf of quarterback Tom Brady.
For more, we bring in Terence Moore national sport columnist for
SportsOnEarth.com. Also with us, Donte Stallworth, a former NFL wide
receiver who played for the New England Patriots in 2007 and 2012.
Gentlemen great to have with us tonight.
Terence, I`ll start with you because we were visiting with you on this last
night. This is a pushback beyond pushback on the part of Kraft and the
quarterback. What do you make of it?
TERENCE MOORE, SPORTS ON EARTH": Well, first of all, Ed, what we`re seeing
here the last few days is absolutely extraordinary. Never in the history
of the national football league, maybe in sports, have you had such a
powerful owner essentially declare war on his own league. I know a lot of
people will say, what about Al Davis? And I covered the Oakland Raiders 35
years ago when Al Davis and Pete Rozelle were mortal enemies.
But Al Davis was a noted rebel. This guy Robert Kraft just put it in
perspective. He`s in charge of the broadcast committee, which is the most
powerful committee in the national football league, which is why this
league is worth billions. Second of all, this is the same Bob Kraft who
back in 2006 was the main guy that got Roger Goodell hired.
MOORE: When you`re talking about the New England Patriots here. You
notice the second most expensive team in the National Football League. So
it tells you how big it is.
SCHULTZ: Well, I know it`s a fraternity, these NFL owners, you know. Do
you think, Terence, that Kraft would go to some other owners and say "Hey,
you`d be saying the same thing if this was your star player." And is he
going to get support from other owners? And does this put special pressure
MOORE: He`s going to get zero support from other owners, because that`s
partly why Roger Goodell was able to be so big and bad and make this move.
Because the word is that a lot of the fellow owners out there were
whispering in his ear to hang tough. Because a lot of these guys, a lot of
the fellow owners are Robert Kraft`s guys, think that the Patriots have
been getting off too easy as it is. Going back to Spygate, going back to
the illegal substitutions they did, or border line substitutions pattern
they have. And some other things. So if he goes to the owners, they`re
going to put their fingers in their ears.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. Kraft is saying that he regrets not taking legal action.
And now there`s a union play here. And Dante, how powerful is the union to
support tom Brady? And where does this go from here? What avenue can
Brady take right now?
DONTE STALLWORTH, FRM PATRIOT WIDE RECIEVER: Well, right now, I think and
it was obvious before, we knew that Tom Brady and his camp was going to
fight this. Mr. Kraft talked about how he felt that he shouldn`t have put
so much faith in the league. And now you`ll see a huge pushback, as you`ve
seen in the statements today, by both the owner, Mr. Kraft and by Tom
Brady. But Tom Brady now can go to court and the NFL will have to show why
they -- why this case was upheld, why this suspension was upheld. But Tom
Brady has a decent chance at winning. It`s not over with yet. So this
thing could drag on unfortunately for a long time to come. Well into the
SCHULTZ: Dante, you believe his story? I mean, this is a major pushback
on Brady. I mean, he`s attacking the league`s credibility in a big way,
basically calling them liars.
STALLWORTH: Yeah. And, you know, it`s interesting, because I think it`s
kind of working both ways when you see what`s going on now with the NFL and
also Tom Brady. You know, this is going to be a verbal spat for a really
long time. But with Mr. Kraft coming out as strong as he did, that`s
something that hasn`t been done in a really long time, like was mentioned
before. You`ll see Mr. Kraft continue to push back, and Tom Brady as well.
SCHULTZ: Terence, how legally deep would this go? They could they unearth
these text messages to find out Brady`s telling the truth or he`s lying?
MOORE: Well, you know, as we know, you can never erase anything nowadays
with modern technology. But here`s the thing that needs to be pointed out.
When this thing goes to court, they`re not going to be able to prove guilt
or innocence here. They`re basically going to sue the NFL, the players and
Brady, on the process. And they`re going to lose big time there, because
this was collectively bargained by the owners and the players.
The players are the ones who agreed to let Roger Goodell to be the judge
and the jury in all these other situations. And this other big thing, Ed,
one of the owners who was huge in this collective bargaining agreement that
allow this happen was all together now Robert Kraft.
STALLWORTH: Players aren`t under any obligation to give up cell phones and
I think Brady alluded to that. So these fight going to go a lot further
beyond the innocent and guilty thing. It`s also going to be a union issue
as well. And I think that`s what the NFLPA will have to fight back for,
for Tom Brady.
SCHULTZ: Donte, what about the timing of this in Tom Brady`s career?
Nobody wants to leave with controversy. Nobody wants to tarnish someone`s
legacy. I mean, this guy is going to be remembered at one of the all-time
greats. We can debate all night who the absolute best is, but let me tell
you this guy is a marquee player in the history of the league. How much
does legacy play fight?
STALLWORTH: I think it will play into as long as court the opinion --
public opinion of the court, it`s going to be an issue. And people that
were a little suspect of Brady before, when they came out with the upheld
suspension yesterday and they said specifically that Brady destroyed his
cellphone to circumvent some of the investigation.
STALLWORTH: So that will probably hurt Brady from people that already
though he was guilty. But the people that are supporting Brady are looking
at it in different way. Brady fully explained why he had destroyed his
cell phone before in the past and it`s on record. So there`s a lot that`ll
be going back and forth to see what happens.
SCHULTZ: All right, Donte Stallworth and Terence Moore, great to have you
on with us tonight.
That is the ED SHOW, I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Al Sharpton starts right now.
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