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All In With Chris Hayes, Tuesday, July 28th, 2015

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Date: July 28, 2015
Guest: Dick Durbin, McKay Coppins, Jen Welter, Jess McIntosh, Rick Wilson,
Jeff Flocken


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: You`re not backing down an inch?


HAYES: Republicans continue a rhetorical onslaught over Iran.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If this deal goes through,
the Obama administration becomes the leading global financier of radical
Islamic terrorism.

HAYES: Senator Dick Durbin is here to respond tonight.

Plus, Donald Trump soars in New Hampshire and crashes in "The Daily Beast".

A Trump adviser threatening a reporter and now backtracking after insisting
there is no such thing as spousal rape.

Then, the new Sandra Bland video that Texas officials hope will end
speculation about a cover-up in her death.

The Minnesota dentist accused of illegally killing a lion in Zimbabwe.

And my interview with the first woman ever hired to coach in the NFL.

JEN WELTER, NFL COACH: I could not have dreamed big enough to imagine that
this day would ever come.

HAYES: ALL IN starts now.


HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee is standing by his
controversial comments, effectively equating Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler,
quote, "Marching Israelis to the door of the oven" with Iran nuclear deal.

In an interview on the "Today Show" this morning, Huckabee defended his
choice of words.


LAUER: You`re not backing down an inch?

HUCKABEE: Not at all. In fact, the response from Jewish people has been
overwhelmingly positive -- the response from Holocaust survivors, from the
children of Holocaust survivors.

LAUER: As president of the United States, would you use the word "march
the Israelis to the door of the oven"?

HUCKABEE: Yes, I would, and let me tell you why, because I have been to
Auschwitz three times. I have stood at the very place.


HAYES: What Huckabee may have missed is that both American Jewish groups,
including the Anti-Defamation League and the Israeli government have
condemned his remarks. "USA Today" spoke with Israeli ambassador, Ron
Dermer, a former Republican operative and very close ally of Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu who actually agrees substantively with Huckabee in
opposition to the deal.


RON DERMER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: These words, and I don`t think
it`s appropriate. We don`t in any way impugn the motives of the people who
are doing this deal I think it`s important to conduct this debate in a way
that`s befitting of the alliance between our two countries.


HAYES: While Huckabee`s language may be extreme, as we point out in the
show last night, the analogy to Nazis and the Holocaust is already
mainstream in Republican rhetoric about the deal.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: This is the equivalent of giving Adolf Hitler
weapons of mass destruction.

REP. MIKE MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: I think it rivals Neville Chamberlain`s
negotiations with Hitler.


HAYES: Today, it was Jeb Bush being compared to Neville Chamberlain, the
British prime minister blamed for signing the Munich pact with Hitler in
1938. Huckabee blasting Bush for saying he should, quote, "tone down the

But Huckabee has got at least one defender among his Republican
presidential rivals. Ted Cruz, who gave a press conference today with some
other opponents of the deal.


CRUZ: If this deal goes through, the Obama administration becomes the
leading global financier of radical Islamic terrorism, sending billions to
jihadists who will use that money to murder Americans. And they do not
want to address the substance of what Governor Huckabee, and Prime Minister
Netanyahu, Elie Wiesel all said, which is that this deal poses a threat of
murdering millions of Americans, and anyone who stands with Israel should
be categorically opposed to this deal.


HAYES: But as the opposition heats up, people who support the nuclear deal
are getting organized to counter it. Move On is mobilizing a grassroots
campaign to put pressure on members of Congress during their August recess.
And today, a star-studded ad in favor of the deal went up on YouTube.


MORGAN FREEMAN, ACTOR: The agreement currently on the table is the best
way to ensure Iran doesn`t build a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bomb.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it gives the international community
unprecedented access to verify that Iran is keeping up its end of the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A strong deal built on international diplomacy is the
best way forward.

FREEMAN: And the alternative to that is war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: War with Iran is a really bad idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The worst idea ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, we all love our children. And the Iranians love
their children.

FREEMAN: And (EXPLETIVE DELETED) they`ve got a deal on the table that
keeps us all safe.


HAYES: The deal has got key endorsement from Congressman Sander Levin,
Democrat from Michigan, the longest serving Jewish member of the Congress
and a reliable supporter of Israel. We still haven`t heard from the one
lawmaker in the president`s party who is widely seen as a bellwether for
the deal`s fate -- New York Senator Chuck Schumer.

I spoke today with one of Schumer`s colleagues in Democratic leadership,
Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, who supports the deal, and I asked him how he
reacted to Mike Huckabee`s comments.


SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Those comments were outrageous. When you
consider the moral tragedy of the Holocaust and what it mint to the world
and how it is still being felt today, I really believe that he should have
been extremely -- much more careful I should say in the language that he
used. And certainly, it is no reflection on the efforts by this president
and by many of us to try to make sure that the nation of Israel and the
Jewish people will have a homeland for generations to come.
HAYES: I have to say that while the imagery he used was particularly
grotesque, the general metaphor that what we are seeing in this Iran
nuclear deal essentially representing a, quote, "Munich moment" that this
is appeasement, this is essentially striking diplomacy with a regime
tantamount to the Third Reich is quite present among many of your
Republican colleagues.

DURBIN: There are allusions to that, to Neville Chamberlain. He is
probably quoted more often by Republican colleagues than most former
British leaders.

But the fact of the matter is this -- this is the same rhetoric used
against Ronald Reagan when he sat down with the Soviet Union and decided he
would negotiate to reduce the number of nuclear arms in the world. They
said he was appeasing, it was a suicide pact. The criticism, the harshest
criticism from the right.

And the same thing was true when Richard Nixon said let`s open up
relationship with Red China. There were critics who said, what is he
doing? These are the people inspiring and funding the killers of American
soldiers in Vietnam -- and they condemned him for it.

It is a reality that if you are going to have a meaningful diplomatic
negotiation, you will be sitting across the table from usually an enemy --
someone you don`t ordinarily do business with. But here, you are trying to
strike some balance, some agreement, some negotiation, in this case with
Iran to stop the development of a nuclear weapon.

HAYES: Is the Democratic leadership in the Senate going to whip this vote?

DURBIN: Well, we`re not doing it in the customary fashion, and I`ll tell
you why. We watched while 47 Republican senators sent a letter to the
ayatollah in the midst of these negotiations, saying to him don`t waste
your time negotiating with the president of the United States nor should
you believe that anything he agrees to is going to be approved by Congress
or followed by the subsequent president, 47 of them sent that letter in the
midst of the negotiations.

And then when the agreement came forward, some of them were condemning it
before the ink was dry. Some within 10, 15 minutes before they could have
possibly read it. And so, many of us on the Democratic side said, we`re
going to treat this as seriously as we should. We`re going to take our
time, read it. We`re going to ask the questions, attend the hearings,
before we make a decision.

I have come out for it after reflection and reading it. Other of my
colleagues are in the process of going through that right now.

HAYES: One of the colleagues a lot of people have been looking towards is
colleague in leadership and your roommate for many years, Chuck Schumer.
People view him as pivotal. He has not declared where he is.

But I guess my question, how big of a deal is it for the White House in its
relationship to your caucus in the Senate if someone in leadership like
Chuck Schumer doesn`t come out and endorse this deal.

DURBIN: Well, Chuck has to make the decision. And I know it`s very
intensely personal for him, as well as an important political decision. He
is taking his time. I talked to him about it. He has met with the
principals, Secretary Kerry, Secretary Moniz. He has really taken his time
to go through it carefully. He`ll make his decision in due time, on his
own schedule.

In terms of his vote being determinative about what happens, I think most
of the members of the caucus certainly respect Chuck, but want to make
their own decision on this important matter. So, his decision is not going
to be decisive for most members of the caucus.

HAYES: All right. Senator Dick Durbin, thanks for your time tonight.
Appreciate it.

DURBIN: Thank you, Chris.


HAYES: Given the way domestic news coverage has gone down, you`d think it
was a deal that was negotiated between the U.S. and Israel. But it`s not.
It`s a deal between the U.S., Iran and five other world powers. And there
has been shockingly little coverage of how the almost 282 million people of
Iran view it.

According to a report published in "In These Times", many Iranian
dissidents whose oppose the regime and risk imprisonment and worse in doing
so support the deal for its potential to open Iranian society to the rest
of the world. These are people often celebrated by many of the same hawks
now condemning the deal.

And "The Guardian" just published a piece by an Iranian American woman
about conservative pro-regime relatives in Tehran, was told by one cousin,
"People now believe the economy has to be built. They have seen they`re
just a country in a larger world."

But if we`re not paying enough attention to the Iranians, they`re certainly
paying attention to us. In an unprecedented move, both hearings on the
deal have been broadcast on Iranian state TV.

Joining me now, Hooman Majj, an NBC News contributor, author of the books,
including "The Ayatollah`s Democracy: An Iranian Challenge", someone who`s
frequently spent a lot of time in Iran.

Great to have you here.


HAYES: I thought why are they showing congressional hearings? And I
think, well, both the Iranians and the White House have to sell the deal to
their domestic political constituencies, and you sell the deal by saying,
we got the better side of this deal.

And so, if you are the Iranians, who better to make the case that you
played the Americans than House Republicans, let them hear -- this is a
little sample of what they play it on state TV.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America got played like a five string quartet.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: No matter what happens, Iran will keep more
than billions it is going to receive upfront basically as a signing bonus.

SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: Now, it is a policy to allow a state
sponsor of terror to contain industrial nuclear development program.

SEN. JAMES RISCH (R), IDAHO: Anyone who believes this is a good deal joins
the ranks of the most naive people on the face of the earth.


HAYES: That`s the House and Senate, obviously. But that does seem to be
the calculation here.

MAJD: Well, I think that`s part of it, yes. I also think that -- I would
imagine, who knows what the motivations of the Iranian state broadcasters
were in this particular instance? But I think basically the Iranian
people, this was very important.

I think people watching this. The country, a cab driver can tell you what
SWU means. People understand what`s at stake for them, because it affects
them every single human being living in Iran.

HAYES: Because of the sanctions, impact the sanctions have had so

MAJD: Sanctions, but also their place in the world.

HAYES: Right.

MAJD: They`re isolated right now. And they know that they don`t want to
be isolated. They`re an educated, young population. It affects every
single person who lives in Iran.

America doesn`t affect every single person who lives in America, despite
what some of our senators and congressmen say in terms of being under
attack by Iranians or Iran is going to attack us with nuclear weapons. So,
it really is important for Iranians and they`ve been staying up at night
watching the talks and, you know, even though there`s nothing to report --

HAYES: So, just to be clear, this is the central overwhelming news in Iran
right now?

MAJD: Far and away.

HAYES: If you are a person who follows the news, if you`re tuning into the
evening broadcast, if you`re at the local coffee shop and you`re talking,
this is what you`re talking?

MAJD: This is the only thing you are talking about, is how it`s going to
affect your life? There is unemployment problem -- there`s a huge
unemployment problem. There`s an economic problem, you know, all kind of
things. University graduates. A million graduates a year come out of
topnotch universities in Iran, where are they going to get jobs?

HAYES: Can`t find work.

MAJD: So, I think it`s overwhelming what these deal means to Iran.

HAYES: In terms of Iranian dissidents. I have seen numerous Iranian
dissidents quoted and published "In These Times". Does that sync up with
your sense of where that part of the Iranian populace is?

MAJD: Sure. I think the only dissidents, hard to call them dissidents,
exile group called the mujahidin, the MEK, and probably the only -- who are
only, widely despised in Iran for siding with Saddam Hussein in the war
against Iran and so on and so forth.

HAYES: They`re a complicated group. We addressed them before. Yes.

MAJD: We addressed them before. But, anyway, other than them, it is
almost universal the support for a nuclear deal, because anybody who has
either family in Iran or cares about Iranian people or cares about peace
and wanting there to be peace between Iran and other countries and
particularly with the United States is going to want this deal. This is a
good deal for the world, actually. It`s probably a good deal for Iran,
probably a better deal for the U.S.

HAYES: Yes, part of -- it`s interesting because both sides have to sell it
in the sort of zero sum terms, which is, there was one pie of -- you know,
one pizza pie. And we got more slices than they got. But it`s also
possible that it is not zero sum, actually the deal could actually confer
benefits on both, both ends of the equation -- the whole world, the other
people that negotiate the deal.

MAJD: But I think what a lot of people are forgetting. Senators and
congressmen are forgetting when they talk about the money. It`s Iran`s
money. The U.S. is actually not giving up anything. There`s no signing

HAYES: Right, right.

MAJD: The U.S. is not giving up anything. It is Iran that has given up
everything. This is not a defense of the Iranian regime in any way, it`s
just this is the fact. What the U.S. agreed to do is to stop punishing

HAYES: Right.

MAJD: That`s all.

HAYES: Right.


HAYES: When we talk about the money flowing in. It`s the money that would
be flowing in absent the very intense regime of sanction that is cut off
that money.

MAJD: Exactly. Despite those sanctions, Iran has actually accelerated its
nuclear program over the years, and they haven`t attacked the United
States. And they haven`t attacked Israel.

So, all the senators are worried that Iran is going to suddenly turn around
and attack Israel or attack America, some have even said, then why would
they do that, now? Why haven`t they done it? So, it doesn`t make sense.
A lot of the argument doesn`t make sense.

HAYES: Hooman Majd, always a pleasure.

MAJD: Thank you.

HAYES: Thank you very much.

Up next: Donald Trump`s attorney goes on a shockingly vulgar and
threatening tirade against a "Daily Beast" reporter. That`s putting it

Plus, the first female coach in NFL history, Jen Welter, joins me tonight.

And later with inaugural presidential debate just over a week away, how
straggling GOP candidates are trying to eke their way on to the stage.


every vote. I just need to get more than everybody else.



HAYES: With Donald Trump topping the polls and dominating the airwave,
Governor Chris Christie laid out his case to CNBC`s John Harwood.


CHRISTIE: Donald has skills and talents that made him wealthy and made
lots of people around him wealthy. That`s a great thing. It`s not
necessarily the same skills that are transferable to governing. And so,
you need to understand how you have to work with other people, how if you
disagree with some one, you just can`t fire them.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNBC: Not possible for him to be a successful president.

CHRISTIE: It is much less likely for him to be successful than it is for
me to be successful. I don`t think it would be in the best interest of our
party who I don`t think would be an effective president to be the nominee.
But, you know, in he end, that`s what I`m running.


HAYES: Will Chris Christie`s hard sell pay off? What did the waitress
make of all that? Will he make it on the debate stage? How are the other
candidates doing in the battle for oxygen? All that and much more ahead
from the crowded Republican presidential field, ahead.


HAYES: Donald Trump apparently employs a Donald Trump who works for Donald
Trump. Not literally a Donald Trump, a man named Michael Cohen, a special
counsel for Donald Trump, who sounds shockingly like the Donald, though a
more profane version, as evidence by an exchange with "The Daily Beast"
reporter who unearthed just one of the embarrassing subchapters in the long
tabloid life of Donald Trump.

Now, remember, Trump, this is a man who once said of his daughter when
asked how he would react if she posed for "Playboy", quote, "I don`t think
Ivanka would do that, although she does have a very nice figure. I said if
Ivanka weren`t my daughter, perhaps I`d be dating her." Obviously meant as
a joke, just not a particularly good one.

The episode of "The Daily Beast" reporter asked Donald Trump about an
assertion in a 1993 book about Trump called "Lost Tycoon". The book
contained a passage in which Trump`s former wife, Ivana, during a
deposition relating to the divorce, said that Trump sexually assaulted her
in 1989 while they were still married.

Now, important, Ivana Trump disavowed the rape allegation at the time the
book was published which is what makes Cohen`s response more amazing.
Cohen had plenty to say about this when reached by this "Daily Beast"

"You are talking about the front-runner of the GOP presidential candidate
as well as a private individual who never raped anybody and, of course,
understand that by the very definition, you can`t rape a spouse."

"It is true," Cohen added, "you cannot rape your spouse. And there is very
clear case law."

That is not at all correct, at all. Since 1984, marital rape has been a
crime in New York state. Cohen turned to Ivana Trump`s meaning, "It`s not
the word that you are trying to make it into," Cohen told "The Daily
Beast", saying Ivana Trump was talking about how she felt raped
emotionally. She was not referring off to it as a criminal matter and not
in its literal sense though there are many literal senses to the word.

But perhaps more revealing, Cohen then threatened the reporter who had
called to ask, saying, "I will make sure that you and I meet one day while
we`re in the courthouse. And I will take you for every penny you still
don`t have. And I will come after your `Daily Beast` and everybody else
that you possibly know," Cohen said. "So, I`m warning you, tread very
bleeping lightly because what I`m going to do to you is going to be
bleeping disgusting. You understand me?"

Out of all that it was Cohen`s view of rape which drew the most attention.
DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz saying in a statement, "This is a new
low. Rape is rape, full stop. End of story. There is no difference or
division between forcible, legitimate, marital, or any label Republican
slap on before the word rape."

Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill tweeting, "Most shocking part of this,
Trump`s lawyer thinks it is legal to rape your spouse, giving Akin a run
for his money."

Cohen today apologized in a statement which reads in part, "Rarely am I
surprised by the press, the gall of this particular reporter to make a
reprehensible and false allegation against Mr. Trump truly stunned me. In
my moment of shock and anger, I made an inarticulate comment which I do not
believe and apologize for."

Ivana Trump also released a statement saying the story is totally without
merit and she and Donald Trump are the best of friends.

ALL IN has asked for a statement from Michael Cohen but has not received a
reply. Donald Trump has disavowed his comments but says he will not fire

Joining me now, "BuzzFeed News" senior writer McKay Coppins, who`s reported
on Trump`s various aides.

Now, you wrote this profile of Donald Trump and his people were furious at
you. They came after you. And I`m curious when you read this in "The
Daily Beast", yes, this sounds like the guys I operated with.

MCKAY COPPINS, BUZZFEED NEWS: No, I mean, it`s emblematic of the way
Trump, kind of retinue of mini-Trumps that surround him operate. I mean,
the thing that you have to remember is that Trump doesn`t surround himself
with like the most credential, you know, most, the best money can buy, PR
operatives. He surrounds himself with people who are like him, who admire
him, who want to emulate him, who want to be like him.

And so, when you said that Michael Cohen sounds a lot like Donald Trump.
And it`s true. And it`s not just Michael Cohen. All of his political, I
deal mostly with his political operative thousands. All of them sound a
lot like him. They adopt this sort of off brand like Trumpism, where they
try to imitate him.

And it works to a certain extent. But like the thing that you have to
remember, Trump is -- Trump is --

HAYES: I`m just cracking over the thought of like Austin Powers style
mini-me, like campaign office meetings, where like everyone is like --

COPPINS: Well, that`s what`s so fascinating about this, because if you
think what it would be look to have a campaign run by mini-Donald Trumps,
it would be chaos, right? In a lot of ways it is. The story I wrote at
"BuzzFeed" talks about how they`re constant, all advisers are constantly at
war with each other and trying to bludgeon each other off to death to prove
supremacy, because that`s how they think Donald Trump will respect them and
think that they`re good operatives.

HAYES: There is also, strikes me aside from just the factually, deeply
factually inaccurate story of marital rape, which is also again a weird way
to respond because Ivana Trump said this is not true, so you just say, hey,
she`s --

COPPINS: It`s insane. It`s insane.

HAYES: But, also, just like, you know, it`s going after a reporter that
hard. It just made me think is this something they do all the time, is
this the way they kind of operate in the press?

COPPINS: Oh, yes. The thing about covering Donald Trump, it`s weird
because, to a certain extent while you are being a bull fighter where
you`re like trying to like taunt him with what you write. I mean, like,
this is regardless who you are, where you are writing, there are certain
buttons you can press that will cause him to print out your article and
hand write like a screed across it, which he does, have it messengered to
you. And there are reporters all over the country who have those framed on
their walls.

But the thing about Trump is there is a line, right? Where like it`s fun
for a while, but then, but there is a certain like, unhinged quality to it,
where you don`t know where they will stop, right?

HAYES: Yes, and also, like I will take you. That is a very serious
threat. That wasn`t a joke. That was if you print this thing, about my
client, man I work for, which again, the thing is true. There was a
printed allegation.

COPPINS: Right, and the story is written very carefully --

HAYES: It was very carefully --

COPPINS: This is what was in the book.

HAYES: I will come after you. What I am going to do to you is going to be
bleeping disgusting.


COPPINS: Disgusting. I mean, that is the crazy, like a low rent gangster
movie, you know?

HAYES: I joked last night, the new slogan will be Trump 2016, what I am
going to do to you is going to be bleeping disgusting, parenthesis, also
make America great again.

Both of those things.

COPPINS: Two bullet points in the Donald Trump campaign.

HAYES: That is kind of the campaign he is running. Do you -- is there
actually an actual campaign structure edifice now? Like, is this a real
thing with real people that have experience doing the thing that has to be
done, which is like figure out the caucuses?

COPPINS: Right. Yes, no, there are. This is the thing that is so
interesting for the last like several years, within his inner circle, there
has been two warring camps, and when he decided to actually run for
president for real this time, he didn`t, like, turn to either of them.

He hired a few actual professionals who are generally anti-establishment
Republicans, they work for like the Koch brothers, and fit the mold of
mini-Trump. But they`re people with experience. And somebody is putting
together the massive campaign --

HAYES: I`ve been on the campaign.


HAYES: Someone has to do it. There has got to be spread sheets. There
has to be something.

COPPINS: Yes, so absolutely. He has people who are organizing the
campaign. But it`s still, he has all of these people in the periphery. I
mean, one of the questions, one of the many, many, questions about this
whole episode is why was Michael Cohen speaking for Donald Trump in the
first place --

HAYES: There was a call in the campaign and Michael Cohen, who is a Trump
employee --


COPPINS: That`s happened to me. So, I`ve before asked Michael Cohen a
question about something unrelated to the campaign. His campaign manager
has called back. They seemed to trade, you know, who`s going to call for
what and it doesn`t always make sense.

HAYES: "The Daily Beast" piece today calling the question, whether that is
legal, there is legal regulation about this.

McKay Coppins, great to see you. Thank you very much.

COPPINS: Thank you.

HAYES: Coming up, in response to some of the theories surrounding the
death of Sandra Bland, Texas authorities today released hours of new video.
We will show you some of that, next.


HAYES: Today authorities in Waller County Texas released hours of video of
Sandra Bland in jail, in part, they said because of rumors she was
seriously hurt or even deceased by the time she arrived at Waller County
jail. Officials claim the jail has been under cyber attack, that they`ve
received death threats.

Bland died of apparent hanging in custody three days after being pulled
over for failing to signal a lane change. Now, there are multiple ongoing
investigations into both her arrest and her death. This is footage of
Bland entering the building through a sally port (ph), or secure entryway
on July 10th, that`s the day of her arrest.

Bland can later be seen sitting still in her street clothes in the intake
area, the arresting officer, Brian Encinia, is there, and later, he is at a
filling out paperwork.

Another officer is standing before her, filling out her first mental health
evaluation. A third officer is also present.

Now, in a later portion of the video, Bland is now in the orange jumpsuit
provided by the prison. Waller County Judge Trey Duhon, sometimes provided
narration of this he video as he presented to reporters today, he does so
as well.


TREY DUHON, WALLER COUNTY JUDGE: OK, there she is. So she is, she has
been sleeping in a holding cell. And this is where the infamous mug shot
is taken against the wall where people have gone to great lengths to try to
insinuate or
imply she is deceased. And the photograph as you can actually see the
being taken on the computer by Waller County jailer right there.


HAYES: Sandra Bland was alive on the day that she arrived in jail
following this traffic stop. She was found dead in her jail cell by
apparent hanging on the
morning of July 13th. The question that many are asking that has driven so
of the protest, outrage, anguish and attention to her death is -- would
Sandra Bland be alive if she had never been pulled over for failing to
signal a lane change?


HAYES: Tonight, Minnesota based dentist Walter Palmer is at the center of
an international firestorm after officials in Zimbabwe accused him of
killing Cecil, one of the most famous lions in Africa, earlier this month.

Conservation officials this morning said the 55-year-old American tourist
paid two men to lure the big cat out of protected game preserve in
northwest Zimbabwe using bait, then shot the famed lion with a cross bow,
tracked it for some 40 hours and finished it off with a gun.

The 13-year-old lion`s body was found skinned and beheaded according to


EMMANUEL FUNDIRA, ZIMBABWE OFFICIAL: The proper (inaudible) value for this
this lion, which is a big treasure, would be around 100,000 U.S. dollars.
Information so far still shows that there was money which was exchanged to
the tune of around 55,000 U.S. dollars.


HAYES: Walter Palmer, the man who officials identified as Cecil`s killer
is an avid big game hunter who has posed with kills before. In 2808, he
paid a fine and plead guilty to lying to a federal agent in connection with
the killing of a black bear.

In a statement to NBC News today, he said he has not been contacted by any
authorities and would cooperate with any investigation saying, quote, "I
several professional guides and they secured all proper permits to my
knowledge. Everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and
conducted. I had no idea the lion I took was a known local favorite."

Since his name was released this morning, his office has become a makeshift
memorial to the dead lion.

Meanwhile, the hashtag #Cecillion continues to trend on Twitter. The Yelp
page for his office, River Bluff Dental has been overrun with negative
comments. He has removed his personal Facebook page after it was flooded
with comments like this one, wishing his children get all the bad things
life has to offer and that he get cancer.

Joining me now, Jeff Flocken from the International Fund for Animal

Jeff, what do you make of this story? My first thought when I heard this
was I did not know this was a thing that, that people did.

Actually most people are surprised they find out that Americans can legally
go and
kill an African lion. The verdict is still out on this particular case
whether this was done legally or not legally. But that begs the bigger
question, if in fact lions are threatened or endangered, which they are,
there has been a 60 percent decline in the species in the last 30 years,
it`s in trouble. It needs help. Why are we allowing Americans or other
citizens of the world to go out and kill them for sport.

It doesn`t make economic sense, it doesn`t make biological sense, and it
certainly doesn`t make ethical sense.

HAYES: Well, so there is two issues here, right. So, there is the fact
that there is an industry of big game hunting in which people can legally
go off into Africa and to the subcontinent particularly -- I`m sorry, sub-
Saharan Africas and to essentially hunt big game in a legal fashion for
tens of thousand of dollars, right?

FLOCKEN: Absolutely. And that`s not just African lions, but includes
endangered species like African elephants, and rhinoceros as well as
species that we believe are in great decline, like leopards or giraffes.

HAYES: Now in, so that, that is the legal part of this. This appears to
be something shadier, right, or at least the allegation from the officials
here is that actually this lion was both in a preserve and also was
collared is that correct? What`s the significance of the lion having had a

FLOCKEN: The animal was being studied, and had been part of a long term
studied, become something of a local celebrity in the national park where
it was.

Now, one significance of that is that it brings in revenue to local people.
When tourists come wanting to see that lion. By killing it for this one
time safari, taking it out of the park, in fact the value now is lost for
the long term for people who were benefiting from that animal being there.

And we learn again and again from polling and from the economics of the
situation that people will pay to go see animals on safari, that a majority
of them do not want to see them killed. They want to see them and take
pictures. Nature safaris bring in three and fifteen times more income than
any hunting safaris in Africa.

HAYES: What do you attribute -- obviously there`s a frenzy right now. And
I just want to say for the record that I don`t think people should be, you
know, wishing this person gets cancer, et cetera. Like, there is a justice
system and he may be extradited. Zimbabwe has been talking about that.
There`s actually an extradition treaty if I understand this correctly.

But what do you account for the kind of just total comprehensive revulsion
that people have at learning this story?

FLOCKEN: People love wild animals. And polls have shown up to 80 percent
here in America when polled recently said that they do not want to see
imperiled species killed for sport.

So, I there`s a backlash when this happens. I also do want to see
individuals targeted. What I would like to see, though, is the system
changed so that people don`t hunt endangered species like rhinos, like
elephants, like lions.

This is 2015. We don`t have to kill an animal to save it.

HAYES: All right. Jeff Flocks, thanks for joining me. I really
appreciate it.

Coming up, I`ll talk to a woman making NFL history and forging the way for
more to follow in her footsteps.


JEN WELTER: I look at it as like, you know, a lead blocker in football.
The fullback takes the hit, but they open the hole for somebody else to and
run through it.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, now entering the game, number 47
Jane Welter.

WELTER: I want little girls to grow up knowing they can do anything, even
play football. I mean, for so long football has been the final frontier of
sports, that`s the place women cannot and should not go. And it`s the
greatest game in the world, it`s hard not to realize that you are making
history at this


HAYES: Jen Welter made history when she became the first woman who wasn`t
a kicker to play professional football for a men`s team. And today she
made history again, becoming an NFL coach for the Arizona Cardinals. And
she joins me next.


HAYES: For the first time in history a woman will coach in the NFL. Jen
Welter, an accomplished football player and coach, just got hired by the
Arizona Cardinals as a coaching intern working with inside linebackers.


WELTER: I could not have dreamed big enough to imagine that this day would
ever come.

I didn`t start playing football to be here. I didn`t even dream that it
was possible. And I think -- the beauty of this is that, though it`s a
dream I never could have had, now it`s a dream other girls can grow up and


HAYES: Got the chance to talk with Jen Welter this evening. She told me
how she got her new job.


WELTER: I was coaching at the time with the Texas Revolution, which is an
indoor team. And when Bruce Aryans commented that he thought he could see
a female coaching in the NFL, my head coach, Devin Wyman reached out to him
and said I have the girl for you. And he left a message for him. And
eventually, you know, coach
called him back. And he said well tell me about this girl.

And I guess -- he liked the questions that, that, you know, liked the
answers to the questions that he got. And later invited me out to OTAs.
We talked. And you know it was at that time that coach told me it was in
his heart, like he didn`t know yet if -- he could make the internship
happen, but he wanted to. And with the approval of a great team around
him, with the -- with the Bidwells and with Steve Keim, thankfully they
backed his play and brought me here to Arizona.

HAYES: Now, you have had a lot of experience. You played professional
football in the women`s league for years, you`ve also played on a men`s
professional team. So, you have had experience being I think the only
woman in these environments that are dominated everywhere you look by men.

Has that been difficult?

WELTER: You know it`s challenging. But I look at those times as really
the opportunities for growth and to change kind of the way we look at
things, you know?

I remember -- Jesse Armstead, he`s the coach with the Giants, linebackers
coach out there. I have known him for years. And he called me and he
said, baby
girl you are changing the way that guys look at females and what they`re
capable of. And he said I just listen to my players on the Giants talk
about how seeing you play with the men made them believe that women could
truly do anything.

And if you are not willing to step into those challenging situations then
change never happens.

I mean, yeah, there is some logistics stuff, and there`s a lot of laughs,
because of the stuff you definitely didn`t foresee, or conversations maybe
you laugh that you stepped into. But those are times that really are, are
great opportunities for growth. And I kind of love those challenges.
Those are my favorite parts of my own personal story.

HAYES: Do you think we are going to see -- obviously there`s a coach on
the Spurs in the NBA, right now, she actually coached the team.

WELTER: Yep, Becky Hammond. She`s fantastic.

HAYES: She did an amazing job in the summer league team. Is this
something we are going to see more of, five, ten years from now what`s your
prediction? Are we going to see more of this in the NFL and other
professional leagues?

WELTER: Of course you are.

You know, it takes one person to step forward, whether it`s any type of
difference, not just male or female, but you know, you have seen it a lot
in terms
of breaking racial boundaries in this country. At one time, you know it
was unheard of to have a head coach who was African-American, and now look
where we are now today with the league.

But it takes those special people to break through and kind of take the
initial hits. You know, I look at it as like, you know, a lead blocker in
football. The fullback takes the hits, but they open the hole for somebody
else to go and run through it.

And once the hole has been opened, why would you close it back up, you
know? When you prove that there is something different that can be added
and someone else who is qualified, you can`t unlearn that information.

And, yeah, you have to come into situations where they embrace it. But of
course, when you see the success of Becky Hammond, other people are going
to say maybe we look a little deeper into the depth chart and see where the
best candidates are available regardless of gender or race or, you know,
any of those factors.

HAYES: Jen Welter, great pleasure. Thank you very much. Congratulations.

WELTER: Thank you.


HAYES: Up next with now 16 GOP presidential candidates and only ten
spots on the debate stage, who will be left behind? Stay with us.



MIKE GALLAGHER: How much would you love it if we stopped asking you about
Donald Trump?

CHRI CHRISTIE, GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: I don`t answer it anymore. That`s
my position.

GALLAGHER: No comment?

CHRISTIE: I don`t comment on his comments, it`s just not worth the time.


HAYES: Governor Chris Christie`s determination not to comment on Donald
Trump lasted all of three days. He broke his silence last night responding
to a Trump supporter at a townhall in Keen (ph), New Hampshire.


CHRISTIE: Donald would tell Speaker Boehner I want this bill and I want it
on my desk because this is what is best for America. And Speaker Boehner
would look at him and say, yeah, well I don`t have the votes for that, so I
can`t give it to you. He can`t look at him and say, Speaker Boehner,
you`re fired. He can`t do that. You could do it on a reality TV show, but
you cannot fire the Speaker of the House or the Senate Majority Leader
because you don`t get what you want.

You have to have some experience in knowing how to deal with people in that
way and he has not shown that over the course of his career.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m not so sure about that. The man has done a

CHRISTIE: Then we have a fundamental disagreement, but...


CHRISTIE: So, that`s okay, then vote for Donald Trump. It`s fine. It is
a free country, and you can vote for whoever you want who is on the ballot
on February 9 here.

I don`t need to get every vote. I just got to get more than anybody else.



HAYES: So far his push for votes in New Hampshire doesn`t seem to be
working. A recent poll of likely voters put Chris Christie in eighth
place, now this is in New Hampshire, which is a state that he is focusing
his energies on. The front-runner there, Donald Trump. He got six times
more support.

Joining me to assess the chances of Chris Christie and the other 55 --
sorry, 15 Republican presidential candidates as they scramble for one of
the ten spots in the first debate stage is Jess McIntosh, deputy
communications director for Emily`s List, and Rick Wilson, Republican media

Rick, I actually -- I thought that Chris Christie answer was a great
answer. And -- and it was such a through the looking glass moment, because
Christie had built up his brand, particularly, outside of New Jersey to --
to Tea Party activists as this like I`m the guy who basically says you are
fired to people at town halls. And here he is trying to hop on the other
side and be look it, well, doesn`t actually work that way when you are a
politician or you`re governing in any fashion like all this bluster is only
going to get you so far.

Christ Christie consciously modeled his image on Donald Trump, but the
character that Donald Trump plays on TV doesn`t exist in the real world.
And so when a guy like Christie is out there trying to do the same, you
know, big swagger thing, after a while it runs into reality. And when you
have got somebody who is more outrageous, who is deliberately provocative,
who is more crazy on every axis, you can`t chase that as a guy like Chris
Christie who is in the single to low digit right now and is almost an
afterthought in the campaign.

HAYES: Jess, I thought it was interesting the latest polling had Kasich
creeping into third in New Hampshire. Now, Kasich is someone who has
declared later than everyone else. He also, you know, has quite a
distinguished resume, insofar as he has been in both in Washington, he`s
been the governor. He got elected in a blue state.

What do you think of his chances? And do you, is it possible for him to
make the debate stage? And does it matter if he does?

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: I mean, he is the Ohio governor. So, it`s
kind of amazing that we are talking about a state that -- i mean, if you
asked average Americans what the most important state in a presidential
contest is they`re either going to say Florida or Ohio.

We have got the governor running and look at the week that was. He
announced, but you don`t even remember that because Rand Paul chainsawed
the tax code, Lindsey Graham put his phone in a blender. Mike Huckabee had
those despicable comments about Israelis in the oven, Donald Trump wore
golf shoes on the
border, and this is the week that is leading up to the first debate. I
don`t think that this is the kind of Republican presidential primary that
any Republican presidential primary voters expected.

And I love the idea of rump somehow pulling directly from Christie, as if
all of these voters are sitting there going I like that Chris Christie, I
just wish he
were a little meaner, and like slightly more erratic, then i could get
behind that

HAYES: And here`s part of the problem, Rick. And you and I talked about
this, you know, Michael Brandon Dougherty, who is a writer I really like,
he`s a
conservative in a kind of unorthodox way. He said, you have four people in
the democratic primary and there`s more ideological breadth there between
Jim Webb and Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders than the 15 on the
Republican side. And part of it strikes me as part of the issue that all
of them have, both in getting on the
debate stage and what they`re going to say in the debate is that there is a
pretty robust consensus on most of the main policy areas. It`s hard to
break through substantively.

WISON: Sure. There are a lot of things about presentation and style and
affect that are going to really be on display during this debate. And you
are going to see folks who have very solid conservative records, and a lot
of very similar philosophies within a fairly big band of what comprises
modern conservatism. And then there is going to be the character Donald
Trump plays on

So you`re going to have all these people that have pretty considered policy
opinions, and they main vary a little bit, but they`re all in the sort of
the general mainstream of modern conservatism. And the question is going
to be which one is going to put on the best show and bring in some real
heat on Donald Trump in terms of policy and, and substance in the course of
the debate.

HAYES: You know, Jess, I think it was Bernie Sanders that floated the idea
of cross party primary debates, right. So, why, I think this is actually a
fantastic idea, because for precisely in some ways the reason that Rick was
which is, you know there is, there is particularly in the Republican --
this huge Republican field with somewhat limited substantive areas of
disagreement, you know, why not have you know, Bernie Sanders and John
Kasich, and Jim Webb and Carly Fiorina, and Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz.
I would love that.

MCINTOSH: I can`t wait to get done to the contrast between what the
Democratic agenda is and what the Republican agenda is. On the Republican
side like you do have a little bit of a spectrum on some issues, some
people want to have a pathway to some sort of normalization for Mexican
undocumented immigrants, and some people want to electrify a fence, that`s
a bit of breathing room there between the two.

But compare that with Hillary Clinton`s pathway to citizenship for
everybody who is here as an undocumented immigrant and you have got just a
huge difference in vision for the country.

And I`m kind of excited to explore that. I would like to get to that

HAYES: I would love to see Hillary Clinton debating Ted Cruz early on, and
often -- no, I mean I really mean this.

Like I would...

MCINTOSH: Ted Cruz would like that too.

HAYES: I would love a set of one-on-ones very early on, you know, no holds

Rick would you endorse that?

WILSON: I would endorse a Thunderdome style, no holds barred, steel cage
lights out match, folding chairs, ladders, people coming off the
turnbuckles. I think it`s got great, great legs.

MCINTOSH: Lincoln Chafee`s music.

HAYES: There is a clip of Donald Trump at a WWF event getting smacked down
I think by the Undertaker. We should pull that t up and play it for
tomorrow as a sort of vin diagram. Jess McIntosh and Rick Wilson. Thank
you both.

All right, that is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts

Good evening, Rachel.



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