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The Ed Show for Thursday, July 30th, 2015

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Date: July 30, 2015
Guest: Paul Henderson, Paul Butler, Reese Halter, Henry Fernandez, Mitch
Ceasar, Harold Cook


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without the video from that body camera. The officer
was wearing. Chances are we`ve never know what the prosecutor says

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do they believe it? They word that what they say
even its untrue will somehow trump what is on a video cam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In all four cases where an officer has been charge for
non-duty shooting this year. There is video tape. There`s been zero
prosecution where there`s no video. But literally none.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus, major lead. The huge break in, the biggest
aviation mystery in decade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What appears to be a piece of wreckage from Malaysia
Airlines Flight 370, washed ashore on a remote island off the coast of


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Others (inaudible) out trump each other.

DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENCIAL CANDIDATE: I`m number one in Nevada, number
one in North Carolina and number one nationally. But very importantly I`m
number one with the Hispanics.


MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: On Wednesday, the University of Cincinnati
police officer was indicted on a murder charge for shooting unharmed man.
The prosecutor called the shooting by Officer Ray Tensing a senseless,
asinine shooting.

One of the reasons he was indicted was because the incident captured on the
officer`s body camera was clear evidence of what had gone on. Tensing
lawyer told the judge today he was not guilty.

The prosecution describes the video as crucial evidence to the case. Here
a key point in the altercation. Just a warning some may find this video
quite disturbing.


you have a license on not. Go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me.

SAM DUBOSE: I didn`t even do nothing. What are you...

TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off.

Stop, stop.

I`m good.


DYSON: Tensing is arguing self defense saying he was drag by the car when
it drove away. Videos like that are making a difference. As the New York
Times point out a number of recent police videos have let to protest.
Federal investigations, police officers being charge and actual changes in
police, they`ve also change some of the conversation about race in America.

We`ve seen a number of videos that are having an impact this year along.
Another warning, viewers might find some of the following videos

July 10th Prairie View, Texas, dashboard camera video revealed a Texas
state trooper threatening Sandra Bland with a stun gun, after Bland was
asked to put out her cigarette. She was found death cell three days
afterward allegedly killing herself.

June 5th McKinney, Texas, this cellphone video shows a police officer
waving his gun at kids after reported fight at a neighborhood pool. It
shows the offers shoving a young black girl`s faced into the ground. The
office involve in the incident has resigned.

April 12th Baltimore, Maryland, cellphone video shows police dragging
Freddie Gray as he scream in pain into a police transport van. Gray
apparently suffered a spinal injury while in police custody and died of his
injuries. Six Baltimore police officers were charge in his death.

April 4th, North Charleston, South Carolina, cellphone video shows Officer
Michael Slager shooting Walter Scott as he ran away. The video shows
Slager firing eight shoots then casually walking over to Scott. Officer
Slager was indicted on a murder charge.

All these incidents happen this year alone. Last year the death of Tamir
Rice, Michael Brown and Eric Garner all grab national headlines.

In New York action is being taken to change the way police killing are
handled. Governor Cuomo signed an executive order appointing a special
prosecutor to handle cases involving civilians or killed by police. It`s
the first major police change we`ve seen because of recent police killings.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, "Should there be a federal law requiring police officers to wear
body cameras?" Go to to cast you vote. I`ll bring you
the results later on in the show.

For more let me bring in Paul Henderson a Veteran Prosecutor and Legal
Analyst, and Paul Butler former Federal Prosecutor in Georgetown professor
at the Georgetown school of law.

Your reaction to Officer Ray Tensing being charge? Paul Henderson, is this
all about the video in this particular case?

PAUL HENDERSON, VETERAN PROSECUTOR: Well, it is in this case because the
video is the lynchpin indicating that the comments that were made by the
officer as part of the investigation was actually a lie because he had told
them that there was a struggle. And because we have this video, we know
that wasn`t true and that`s part of why he was charge obviously the video
shows inappropriate behavior and an escalation that occurred as well. But
the video really puts the nail on the head and sums it all up as to why
exactly he`s going to be charge and why he`s going to be prosecuted in this

DYSON: Absolutely. Professor Butler, how significant is it that some
officers are being charge now because said of president that it suggest
that yes Black Lives Matter and that these people who`re unarmed can`t be
routinely treated in such a matter.

PAUL BUTLER, FRM. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, the video matter to people
who don`t believe what African-American have been saying for decades that
the police often used excessive force. So for those people, this is
evidence, they can actually believe their own eyes.

Now there are another group of people who complains of fallen on that year.
They`re the people who just don`t care that police officers treat African-
American another minorities roughly. So for those people the video still
won`t make a difference.

DYSON: Well, in light of that Mr. Henderson, what Professor Butler said
here either disinterest or disbelieved. Do you think body cameras on all
police officers have a major impact here, they can be manipulated, they can
be turn off, there been some problems with others, what does it really

HENDERSON: Well, it does solve a number of issues. But it raises a number
of issue too and I think is throughout the nation as different
jurisdictions are stumbling over themselves and trying to figure out how
are they going to incorporate the use of both body cameras and dash cameras
into prosecution and then to the police behavior. It`s a question that the
entire country is asking, because now what we`re seeing in he media is a
proliferation of these videos that are exposing behaviors just as Mr.
Butler was saying alluding to that have been known and many of the
disenfranchised communities for years and now that we`re starting to see
that evidence be revealed. And we`re starting to see the copies of those
videos in social media and on the internet.

People are asking these questions as to what accountability looks like, why
are police behaving in this manner. And I just want to point out it`s not
that ever officer is interacting like this and having these bad in
counters. These are people that put their lives at risk everyday and do a
good job for the most part. But we do have some bad apples, and we do have
some bad actors.

DYSON: Right.

HENDERSON: That up until this recent focus are now being uncovered and
exposed and address in the media and in the courts.

DYSON: Professor Butler, in light of this. We all know that are good cops
to be sure. But that is not the test. The test is those cops who don`t
behave correctly under pressure end up harming these unarmed African-
American people and others.

Do you think it`ll be hard to get a conviction in any of these cases?
You`re a former prosecutor as well, with these videos in play.

BUTLER: You know it`s extremely probative evidence that jurors take very
seriously. When you see cases where at the end of the day hasn`t resolve
in a conviction, Rough Ride (ph) cases the most famous example. But, you
know, we come up long way hopefully with regard to race relations although
some times Michael, I wonder because again black people have been
complaining about the police for years. It`s like other folks didn`t
believe us until see it with their own eyes.

So it`s almost like corroboration is needed in order for African-Americans
claims to be taken seriously. It almost remind of the Antebellum Days in
which African-American weren`t allowed to testify against white people
without corroboration.

DYSON: Well, are these cases going to rely solely on these videos? And if
so, what kind of pressure does that put on police people to disallow the
taping of those videos when they see it. We`ve some police actually say
turn that video and go away. Is it going to change the...


DYSON: ... culture and the atmosphere so to speak?

BUTLER: You know it`s like.

HENDERSON: Why because it`s a number.

BUTLER: Go ahead Paul.

HENDERSON: I think there`s a number of ways to look at it. But I think
there certainly all juries they always want a picture, they always want a
video. And often times you deal with the case of he said, she said and you
have the offer statement versus the defendant or the other person that`s
taken the stand. So when you have a video to clarify that, that`s always
going to be more helpful that not.

But it`s not always the complete answer because there are often times
things that aren`t shown on the video. There are subjective
interpretations of behaviors that need to be explained. And so, you`re
still going to need the testimony from those officers.

I think the bigger question is because we have this new introduction of
body cams and because we have this new introduction of the dash cams. What
does it mean in the bigger picture in terms of what policing looks like and
disenfranchise communities and those interaction on a day to day basis that
aren`t necessarily being recorded but are being reflected on the day to day
operations in the local jurisdiction. That what (inaudible) all these
proliferation is raising.

BUTLER: Right. The reason why I think that`s so important is because for
a lot of low income African-American men and women, the criminal justice
system is the government. It`s the most prominent manifestation of the
state and their lives.

So this is about transparency and accountability of government. We really
do need sunshine to see what`s going on.

DYSON: Well look, Professor Butler, charging these officers is one thing.
How do we fix the problem overall? It`s probably -- it`s structural and
systemic. What do we do here?

BUTLER: Yeah, you know, it shows. So, one issue is the police that again
a lot of the problem is excessive force. But some of the problem is just
civility the police don`t treat a lot of African-Americans and Latinos with
respect or courtesy.

So one measure that these cameras lead to is just having folks treat each
other better. So that takes care some of the issue with the police. But
at the end of the day we have to look things like structure, like failing
schools, like dysfunctional communities like no jobs with living wages.
These are -- some of the circumstances that get people involve in the
justice system in the first place and then last but not lease, you know,
there`s good old passion bias.

The reason why Michael, DuBose got stop, the reason why Sandra Bland got
stop is driving while black, that`s old passion discrimination.

DYSON: Yeah, no doubt about that. Sam DuBose, Sandra Bland and five women
who have been detained in therefore have died in jail. What are make of
this rash consist (ph) of black death?

Mr. Henderson, what`s reaction to Governor Cuomo appointing a special
prosecutor to handle police killing of civilians. Do you think going to
attempt down on some of these horrible trend that we`ve seen?

HENDERSON: I think it`s going to expose some other things that Mr. Butler
was alluding to, but the real action is not that we`re becoming more aware
as society. And again just as a reminder more aware outside of the
disenfranchise communities that have a history an exposure and awareness to
a pattern and behavior that has happened frequently with and over
concentration of stops, of arrest, of convictions, of sentencing and so
that not that we`re having this at the forefront and it`s a national

What I think the country is looking for are action steps to address the
behavior and to address these inconsistencies, to make more inclusive
societies. So when I heard that a governmental agency is assigning
oversteer to examine and take actions steps. I`m encouraged by that. When
I hear that the federal government has release the 21st century policing as
model of what local jurisdiction should be doing. I`m encouraged by that.

But as Mr. Butler said and what I`d like to add to is I think the real
solution is going to take place when we start having more diversity in law
enforcement and more training. And I`m talking specifically about training
not just at the academy but ongoing training so that we get issues of
implicit bias being discussed and address regularly by career officer law
enforcement agencies that have interface and day to day interaction.

DYSON: Right.

HENDERSON: With many of these communities. That`s where we`re going to
see the solution.


HENDERSON: Overall encourage by the governor making and taking his stand
and making that position.

DYSON: Professor Butler, couple things, our special prosecutor is the
answer and then secondly germane to the point that Mr. Henderson just made.
We`re dealing with implicit bias, we`re dealing with the kinds of bigotry`s
that are often unconscious that are triggered by unconscious queues that
we`re given in this culture that blackness in somehow evil or problematic
or dangerous even when police people practice their craft a black face off
and points pops up.

How can we then deal with the deeper and more profoundly intrench ideals
that are in this culture that have to do with perceive black people that
then lean to an over policing of these communities?

BUTLER: Sure so, first I think that especial prosecutors are way for it in
advance. Look, I use to be a prosecutor. I work with cop`s everyday. You
develop so much respect for them. They have some of the hardest job in the
world. So in a lot of these instances it`s not that you`re trying to
excuse by conduct as prosecutor. You just are more sympathetic and you
also need them to make your cases.

As far as the implicit bias, but doctor there actually some good news
there. You know, when people take this task and they`re showing white
people and black people with wrench and gun. They recognized the wrench
quickly if it`s a white person, they`re more likely to see a gun if it`s an
African-American. But guess what.

DYSON: Including black people. Correct (ph).

BUTLER: Including black people but police officers actually do better on
those tests than the general pollution. So what that suggest is that we`re
all bias but it can be overcome. We could be trained. We can not act on
our bias. So I`m not looking kumbaya moment where every officers going to
love me because I`m African American. I want him to deal with, to know
that when he sees me he feel threaten in a way that he`s not going to
threaten by one of my white colleagues and to not act on that stereo type.

DYSON: All right. Paul Henderson and Paul Butler.

HENDERSON: And let me just jump in here because I think.

DYSON: OK, very quickly.

HENDERSON: I`m just going to say one of the things I think that`s really
important to that is that we have look in. If you look at the pattern of
behavior in many of the incidents that we`re talking about, were talking
about these in counters with the minimus interaction for no license or
unarmed people, or shop lifting.

DYSON: Well, this is the broken -- this is the broken window theory coming
to crash on us, right. I mean, this is what happened.

HENDERSON: Well, that`s correct.

DYSON: You stop for small infractions. It ends up leading to death. I
wish we more time. But I will get your back on. Paul Henderson and Paul
Butler, thank you so much for you time tonight.

BUTLER: Great to be here.

DYSON: Remember to answer tonight`s question at We`ll
have the result after the break.

Still ahead, could the wreckage of the plane that wash ashore on a island
in the Indian Ocean be part of missing Flight MH370. We`ll talk the former
NTSB investigator.

And with the first Republican presidential debate a week away. Donald
Trumps leads the field with a new poll.

More on that ahead.


DYSON: Here`s where we stand on tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s
question, "Should there be a federal law requiring police officers to wear
body cameras?" Keep voting through out the hour at

We`ll be right back.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We have breaking new information
about a potential breakthrough in one of the greatest aviation mystery of
all time. An airplane fragment discovered on an island in the Indian Ocean
is being followed (ph) as a major lead in the search for missing Malaysia
air flights. Airline Flights MH370.

Sources confirm to NBC News the part number spotted on the wreckage does
comes from Boeing 777. MH 370 mysteriously vanished 16 months ago.
Austria has been leading the search. The Austrian deputy Prime Minister
commented on the discovery earlier today.


That wreckage could have -- traveled that distance in the 16 months since
the aircraft presumably went into the water. Indeed there is a discovery
of wreckage on Reunion Island. It would seem to confirm that the aircraft
has indeed go into the ocean. Now the Indian Ocean and that we should
therefore concentrate our efforts on the search area that`s been


DYSON: NBC`s Kelly Cobiella has the details from London.


KELLY COBIELLA, NBC REPORTER LONDON: Investigator say their almost certain
this piece of debris did come from a Boeing 777. The big question of
course did it com from MH 370. They maybe able to determine that within
the next couple of days.

The piece was found on the island of Reunion in the Western Indian Ocean
yesterday. It`s about six to eight feet long and has clearly been in the
water for sometime. It`s called flaperon and its part of the wing.

Investigators have found a number on the fragment which could be a
maintenance number and could help them identify it more quickly. MH 370
disappeared back in March of 2014 with 239 passengers and crew. Now the
trace of it has been seen since. It`s believed to have gone down in the
Southern Indian Ocean and computer models predicted debris would begin to
wash up in this area around this time.

One oceanographer if this is from MH370, you can expect more debris to wash
up in the weeks. Australia is leading the search for the main wreckage and
does already search 19,000 square miles of sea floor.


DYSON: Let me bring in Greg Feith, MSNBC Aviation Safety Analyst and
former NTSB Investigator. Mr. Feith, what are investigators looking for
specifically with this particular fragment that would be upheld?

GREG FEITH, MSNBC AVIATION SAFETY ANALYST: Michael, they`re going try and
confirm that this part is in fact off of the aircraft has been identified
as MH370. That should happen in the next 24 hours. They do have a build
number or part number on the aircraft that corresponds to a flaperon on a
Boeing 777.

So they`ll look at that. They`ll confirm it but then they`re also going to
look at the damage to try and determine what kind of impact this particular
part was exposed to whether it was low speed, high speed and then what I`ve
seen it looks like a low speed impact where the damage to the flaperon has
minimized other than the excess of force to breaks loose from its it`s
mounts on the hinges because this is a movable control surface.

DYSON: Let`s get a baseline definition. What is a flaperon for the
audience out here?

FEITH: The flaperon, if you -- when you`re flying on a commercial airliner
and the airplane is being configured for landing, you look at the window
and you actually see the trailing edge, those are the trailing edge flaps.
The flaperon is part of the flaps during landing configuration but at high
speeds they lock the ailerons and the ailerons are the little wings if you
will that are at the very tips of the main wing structure that if you want
to roll the airplane left and right, they move up and down.

Well, the flaperon does that at high speed so that you have more general
roll (ph) rate. So it serves a dual purpose in this particular aircraft.

DYSON: Sure. So we`ve also been hearing about the sea life and barnacles
on the debris. What would that tell us? Would it tell us where the spot
of the crash was? Would it tell us what kind of floor and panel (ph) where
they`re? I mean what specifically would it give us?

FEITH: I think from that standpoint, the marine biologists they`ll be able
to look at the barnacles that have been grown on this piece of wreckage.
They can probably determine how long it takes to grow this particular
barnacle, whether it`s a month, three months, six months to help understand
how long that piece of wreckage has been a float.

One of the big issues here is that this has been found on an island. Well,
we don`t know how long that piece is actually been harboring in the area of
that island before somebody saw either due to a storm surge, pulling it, or
pushing it on to shore. That`s going to be critical because of this part
is floating for 200 days and you try to reverse engineer where the origin

That`s a lot different than if this part was floating for 500 days into the
same condition which could take it further back down the southern track in
the eastern tract if you will.

So there`s going to be a lot of science to try and figure out where the
origin of this wreckage started and then how it dripped -- to this island.

DYSON: Fascinating. We`ll look to you for more information in the future.
Greg Feith, thank you so much for joining us.

FEITH: You`re welcome.

DYSON: The outrage continuous over the death of a beloved lion in Africa
killed by an American dentist for a hunting trophy. That dentist is now in
Haiti. We`ll have the latest next. Plus, a new poll says Bernie Sanders
would win the presidential race if he is up against Donald Trump. Of
course he has to win the Democratic nomination first.

We`ll bring down the numbers ahead.


DYSON: Backlash against the Minnesota dentist who killed the beloved lion
has flare to new proportions. Activists are flooding social media and his
clinical with waves of criticism.

Kevin Tibbles of NBC News has the story.


KEVIN TIBBLES, NBC CORRESPONDENT: The big game hunter now the target of
animal activists and critics angry with Minnesota dentist Walter Palmer
following his admission that he killed the beloved lion name Cecil earlier
this month in Africa.

Outside is close dental office in Minnesota, a memorial of stuff animals
and signs for Cecil the lion has groaned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had known he was this horrible vicious big game
poacher (ph) hunter. I wouldn`t have been he`s -- visiting his practice
for all these years.

TIBBLES: No sign of Dr. Palmer but in a letter to patients he again said
he had no idea the lion hunt may have been illegal and vow to cooperate
with authorities, adding I don`t often talk about hunting with my patients
because it can be a divisive and emotionally charged topic.

Palmer maintains he paid his guides to obtain proper permits. Critics had
been loud. They`re using the Yelp Page for Dr. Palmer`s practice with
thousands of negative comments.

Several partitions surface online, one asking President Obama to extradite
Dr. Palmer to Zimbabwe to face possible criminal charges. Others like
rocker Ted Nugent came to Palmer`s defense writing "All animals reproduce
every year and would run out of room, food to live without hunting."

Cecil was 13th a tourist favorite fitted with attracting color, studied by

remarkable individual, remarkable particularly because we have studied him
for so long.

TIBBLES: Experts say Cecil`s killing could endanger the safety of his many

where outside young males might try to come take over the pride. And it
they`re successful taking over that could kill all the young the previous
dominant male.


DYSON: That was Kevin Tibbles of NBC News.

Joining me now is Dr. Reese Halter, conservation biologist and author of
"Shepherding the Sea". Cecil the lion`s death was discovered because he
wear a tracking device. Could there be other agree just killings of rare
animals that we don`t even know about similar African-American people dying
at the hands of police people. The video have proven now. Now we have
evidence of what`s going on here.

Exactly right. While this lunacy, the psychotic behavior was taking place
a couple of thousand miles away at the same time in Tsavo National Park in
Kenya, five elephant males were murdered for their tasks, 135 pounds each.
That`s 1.2 million on the black market and the -- its echo side Michael and
it also highlights the fact that we`re in the midst of the six great mass
extinction. In the last 30 years alone, 50 percent of all wildlife is gone
and for sea birds Michael that 70 percent, 230 million animals gone at the
hands of humans.

DYSON: Wow, that`s a pretty stunning and astonishing number. Some trophy
hunter advocates argue that they`re activity funds conservation. You can
hear Ted Nugent talk about the kind of echo system being righted by the
killing of these animals. What`s your response?

HALTER: Well number one, anybody who hunts animals for fun is displaying
psychotic behavior. Number two, if they really saw -- if they got a lot of
disposable income my best suggestion is get yourself a really good camera,
get up really close Michael. Get some great shots and buy 500 or a
thousand billboards, put your name on it and allowed the wild animals to be

Look, in the last 30 years the lion population is being halved and I think
really the answer here is that love hash tag love is the solution and that
if people are really move by all this that they can consider a plant base
diet go vegan and each of us are powerful and we together can make a hell
of a difference Michael.

DYSON: Do you think the outrage over the lion killing being a greater
focus in -- will bring a greater focus environmental and wildlife issues?
Do you think it really that really up anti (ph) so to speak for people who
have this kind of behavior?

HALTER: Yeah, absolutely. It`s at some -- I seed of good news comes out
of all this and it raises people`s consciousness compassion and hash tag
love is what we have and that is really all we have. And together, I think
the most important thing, is that we are powerful and when we come
together, we move mountains.

DYSON: Let me ask you this very brief question. There`s been a lot of
controversy with the Black Lives Matter movement saying "Look, we are
deeply and profoundly concern about animals, but we see a greater interest
sometimes in animals of the wild kingdom so to speak than human being here,
we know what`s not or either or, it`s not a zero some gain."

Can you speak directly as an environmentalist to the issue that all lives,
you know, that people`s lives as human being matters as well as the
tremendous precious character of these animals live as well.

HALTER: Absolutely right. All of us matter and I think, you know, here`s
what a lot of people don`t understand. In this developing countries like
at Zimbabwe, organize crime has move in. Organize crime is running the
poaching and deluding and they paid cash on the barrel for tusks, for rhino
horns, for big game hunting. I mean $55,000 was paid to lure illegally
Cecil the lion out of this reserve and it`s, you know, we got it
(inaudible). That we`re all part of the echo system and animals and plants
and air and water and if we remove all of the animals, well, we`re going to
be next?

DYSON: All right, Reese Halter thank you so much for joining us here

HALTER: Thanks Michael.

DYSON: Still to come on the Ed Show. They say there`s no crying in
baseball. One player has proved them wrong. Stay with us.

Market Wrap.

Stock end the session little change, the DOW falls 5 point, the S&P up just
a fraction and the NASDAQ gaining 17 points.

Well, share of Linked in were higher after hours and they`re moving between
gains and loses, revenue and earning beat annual assessment. The economy
grew with 2.3 percent at an annual rate for the second quarter. The first
quarter figures will reverse to show a fractional gain from a previously
reported contraction. And filing for first time jobless claims grow to
smaller than expected 12,000 to 267,000.

That`s it for CNBC, where in business worldwide.


DYSON: The Republican candidate field has swell to 17 candidates. Former
Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore made his presidential announcement today in a
YouTube message. The scramble for recognition and donations is furious.
Many Republican candidates are all headed to the Koch primary in

The three day event is hosted by the Freedom Partners chamber of commerce,
a non-profit own by the Koch brothers.

Donald Trump is headed to the gulf course. The GOP front-runner says, the
Koch`s can keep their money. He doesn`t want to influence in his campaign.
Trump jetted to Scotland today to drop in on the Women`s British Open at
this resort. His confidence isn`t shaking by missing any state side


TRUMP: The poll today had me with 16 or 17 candidates had me at 25
percent. And the next person was at 12 percent so that`s a big difference.
So I will represent a very big section at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not the immigrant population or presumably.

TRUMP: Excuse me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not many of the immigrant population.

TRUMP: Oh no, I do well. In fact the Hispanics -- a poll came out two
days ago where I`m number one with the Hispanics. I know you`re surprise
to hear that.


DYSON: Trump is right. Despite the fact that 59 percent of his Hispanics
poll found Trump unfavorable, his 34 percent favorability rating was enough
to stamp out Republican competition. He still leads the charge in the GOP
even after referring to Mexican immigrants, as rapist and murderers.
Donald Trump still is not a much for Hillary Clinton. Among Hispanic
voters, his numbers dropped into 28 percent against her 61 percent.

Joining me now is our Rapid Response panel Henry Fernandez, Senior Fellow
at the Center for American Progress Fund and Mitch Ceasar executive board
member of Democratic National Committee.

Mr. Fernandez, why is Trump leading the Hispanic vote? That`s got to be
surprising to many people in light of his very troubling comments.

Well, let`s be really clear here. I don`t want to really dispel this idea
that he`s leading Hispanic vote or the Latino vote. In fact, only about 22
percent of Latinos identify as Republican. And so, there`s some question
as to whether or not he`s leading among that much smaller segment of the
Latino population.

And when you actually look at the polling that`s been done, we certainly
don`t have just among Republican Latinos, we certainly don`t have a large
enough sample size to be able to say that he`s doing well among Republican
Latinos. There has not been a national poll of Latino voters. There`s not
been a national poll of Latino Republican voters to indicate that he has

There has been a national polling of Latino voters in the general election
and on Trump specifically. And in that case, currently he polls it around
13 percent of support. That is only about 13 percent of Latinos have a
favorable view of Donald Trump.

When we look at what a Republican would actually have to do to win a
presidential general election, they would need about 47 percent of Latino
support. Donald Trump doesn`t come close to that. And so, he`s actually
kind of massaging the numbers. He does not have that level of support. He
certainly doesn`t lead among Latino voters.

DYSON: Mr. Fernandez`s skillful desegregation of the data is quite
powerful but not with standing Mr. Ceasar. Can Trump maintain this
momentum? Because whatever he`s got in terms of manipulating and massaging
those numbers, he`s got it.

Well, I think everybody has misjudged him. He realized before he got into
the race and keeps reminding everybody, he`s not a politician. He`s a
celebrity. He`s a personality. He`s a brand.

And I`d be willing to bet over the years because of his marketing skills.
He`s tested that brand in probably a million surveys when nobody was
watching way before this. I think he can continue and he can continue
because the field is so large.

People have to understand because he`s not a politician. You can`t use the
same typical rules against him. The media has not picked up on this till
now. They were very late to that game. His opponents haven`t either. He
doesn`t have to give explanations. He talked about it. He`s putting up a
wall. You know, on the border to our south, gave no explanation why
because he doesn`t have to. That`s the brand.

When you saw recently in the last day, they talked about some folks they
interviewed in special groups who were Trump supporters. And you heard
words like optimistic, he`s like us which I found bizarre or, you know,
going to be great person as a nominee.

The view of him is very different. He`s going to continue the way he`s
going until the field tins out. He, of course, can stay there to the very
end. And I think in the long run, that helps Jeb Bush because he cleared
some of the other debris so to speak out of his way.

DYSON: Yeah. Now doubt about that. So, I want to show you the latest
poll out of Florida. Trump leads Jeb Bush 26 to 20. What do you make of
these numbers? Mr. Fernandez -- well, I think it`s very.

FERNANDEZ: Actually, actually I think that that polls in New Hampshire I
think right now Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio are leading in Florida. But let`s
remember how we got to this situation with Donald Trump and why he does so
poorly among Latinos.

Donald Trump called Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals. And this is
consistent with the history that Mr. Trump has with dog-whistle racism. I
want to be very clear about this. We`re talking about someone who helped
lead the birther effort against President Obama trying to allege that
President Obama was not from the United States, was not born here. This is
someone who the Department of Justice had sued, Trump`s companies for
failing or unwillingness to rent to African-Americans.

So, he has a history and that`s why we`re seeing these kinds of numbers.
Why is he still doing well generally among -- generally among Republicans
and places like New Hampshire? He`s now in second place in Iowa. It`s
because despite the fact that he has this history, we have not seen
Republican leadership come out against this kind of extremism over the last
several years.

We`ve seen this kind of extremism as well on Capitol Hill, from people like
Steve King talking about immigrants, talking about people of color, unless
Republican leadership comes out and stands up against these things, they`re
going to continue to have this Trump problem.

So, I think right now where we are is that Donald Trump has not been
forcefully ejected from the Republican Party for this kind of statements.
And so, this is the result.

DYSON: All right, gentlemen I wish we had more time. That`s it for today.
But we`ll invite you on again to have this very stimulating conversation.
Henry Fernandez and Mitch Ceasar, thank you so much.

FERNANDEZ: Thank you Michael.

DYSON: Still ahead, a new report says Democrats are frustrated with
Hillary Clinton dodging some key issues on the campaign.

Stay with us.


DYSON: Here are the results of tonight`s Bing Pulse poll. Tonight`s
question, "Should there be a federal law requiring police officers to wear
body cameras?" Keep voting until the end of the hour at

We`ll be right back.


DYSON: And tonight`s Two-Minute Drill. There`s no crying in baseball, but
last night there was. New York Mets shortstop Wilmer Flores had to fight
back tears during last nights against the San Diego Padres when he though
he had trade it. Reports of Flores has been moved to Milwaukee where
flying across social media.

Somehow it gets to Flores, fans also hurt of rumor and gave Flores plenty
of support throughout the game, they cheer for him every time he steps on
to the field. It was until after the game 23 year old Flores learned he
was staying put in New York, Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said there
is no trade.


social media`s (inaudible) a guy ahead off the facts and, you know, it may
have adverse effects on the, you know, one of the players rumored be


DYSON: Stick around, there`s a lot more coming up on the Ed Show, after



process and my assessment is that it is not appropriate, nor fair, for me
to prejudge in a public arena what Secretary Kerry and President Obama
eventually have to decide, and therefore I will not do it.

And I`m sorry if people want me to. I have been very clear. I will not
express an opinion until they have made a decision, and then I will do so.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Hillary Clinton is refusal to take a
stand on issues like the Keystone Pipeline and the Trans-Pacific
Partnership catching the attention of some Democrats. Today Clinton said
she has had several conversations with union workers about the TPP.

An article on The Hill points out Clinton being cautious could hurt her
with Democratic voters. Clinton is no doubt trying to appeal the swing
state independent voters from the general election, but she could end up
alienating liberal Democrats in the process. It shows in the poll numbers.

A new Quinnipiac poll shows 57 percent of voters don`t trust Hillary
Clinton. Her net favorable rating is at negative 12, on the flip side
Bernie Sanders net favorability at positive 7. 42 percent haven`t heard
enough about him. The poll also shows Bernie Sanders beating Donald Trump
by 7 points in the match up for president. Clinton beats Trump by 12
points. Bernie Sanders campaign is focusing on the grassroots effort to
elect the candidate.

Last night Bernie Sanders volunteers hosted over 3,000 grassroots gathering
to mobilize foot soldiers for his campaign. Over 100,000 people pack the
house, coffee shops and other venues around the country. Bernie Sanders
delivered this video message to supporters.


knocking on doors, we need your help making phone calls, we need your help
to talk to your brothers and your sisters, your coworkers, your family
members, bring them into the meeting and bring to all (inaudible). We`re
going to make history in November 2016.


DYSON: Bernie Sanders says last night mark the largest grassroots campaign
event of the 2016 season.

For more let me bring in Harold Cook, of Texas Democratic Political


DYSON: Mr. Cook, will Clinton`s cautious - how you doing there.

COOK: Good.

DYSON: Will Clinton`s cautious strategy hurt her?

COOK: Well, I could figure goes too far. But, I think she would probably
adjust as she goes along. Here`s what I think she`s probably thinking her
choices are at this point. She can focus on of her primary election, which
most candidates don`t want to do if they don`t have to, because then
they`ll box themselves in to positions that primary voters like but maybe
not general election voters in all cases, or if she`s not being pushed in a
primary she can perhaps focus on a general election with the more central
(ph) message.

And frankly just all of the things equal most candidates would rather focus
on neither of those things and be focus on, on governing before their ever
elected not only they don`t have to make any promises to anybody which is
clearly not good for voters but it`s great for candidates.

I`ve said all along that I think if Secretary Clinton treats this
Democratic primary process like a coronation, she`ll be in a lot of trouble
and if she treats it like a real race, then I think Bernie Sanders ends up
maybe being a thorn on her side but definitely not in a knife in her back.
But if she starts getting in the trouble I think she`s perfectly capable
and willing to adjust and come out with stronger statements in kind of
filling the missing link that may frustrates on Democratic voters.

DYSON: Well, knife or thorn if you say -- if you will is she`s pretty
prickly. So do Democrats care than Hillary Clinton is not answering
questions on Keystone or TPP?

COOK: Well, I think some of them do, but in the final analysis I have yet
to see any polls, you know, among Democratic voters that that show Bernie
Sanders anything higher than 18 or 19 percentage points and Hillary Clinton
anything lower than 56, 57 percentage points. She is still the formidable

Now, there is no arguing that that her, her support has been eroding, but
it hasn`t eroded much yet and I think a cautious candidate like Clinton
will probably take and wait and see attitude and is she starts to hurt on
this specific issue then she`ll come out with a strong position on that
issue. But I don`t think she`s going to change who she is, she`s always
been some what of a cautious communicator and I think that`s probably good
enough and I bet she agrees.

DYSON: Well, no doubt I mean obviously President Obama has been quite
cautious himself and that his in the end play to his advantage, how does
Clinton get her numbers up then?

COOK: I`m not sure she needs her numbers up. I mean, there are aware --
they ought to be as far as Democratic support is concern. But, you know,
in my final analysis you and I both know this is in about Democratic
supporters about winning a general elections assuming she`s the nominee.
She has to show that she is fully capable and happy of leveling with the
American people in such a way that makes them comfortable that she`s trust
worthy and forthcoming, and I don`t think she`s done that yet but I`m also
not worried about because it`s very early in the process.

DYSON: No question about it, Harold Cook thank you so much for your time

COOK: Anytime Michael.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.

PoliticsNation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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