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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, July 28th, 2015

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Show: POLITICS NATION
Date: July 28, 2015
Guest: Bob Shrum; Shira Center; Dana Milbank; Karen Finney, Eric Guster,
Seema Iyer, Angela Rye, James Peterson

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST, THE ED SHOW: That is "the Ed Show." I`m Ed
Schultz. "Politics Nation" with Reverend Al Sharpton starts now.

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on "Politics Nation," Mike Huckabee
taking a page out of the Donald Trump playbook. And guess what? It`s
working.

Also, President Obama drops the mic with a big statement about what would
happen if he was able to run again.

And jail officials release new video showing Sandra Bland alive in jail.
Trying to debunk a major conspiracy theory.

Welcome to "Politics Nation."

We begin with Mike Huckabee using the Donald Trump playbook. Step one in
the playbook, say something outrageous like comparing the president`s Iran
deal to the holocaust. And step two, never apologize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: You`re not backing down an inch?

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not at all. In fact, the
response from Jewish people has been overwhelmingly positive. The response
from holocaust survivors, from the children of holocaust survivors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: As president of the United States, would you
use the words march the Israelis to the door of the oven?

HUCKABEE: Yes, I would. And let me tell you why, because I`ve been to
Auschwitz three times. I`ve stood at that very place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Why would he back down? Huckabee`s offensive comments have
gotten him three national TV interviews in less than 24 hours. And plenty
of other candidates are backing him. A top aide to Trump himself says
Huckabee was right on the holocaust comments. Rick Santorum agrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t know why, and frankly,
I`m a little shocked that this is getting the kind of pushback that it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Ted Cruz also defended Huckabee. And he went on to accuse the
president of, quote "gutter politics" for criticizing him. We`ll have to
see if Huckabee`s strategy helps him in the polls. But he insists this had
nothing to do with getting the spotlight off Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Answer the critics, governor, who say that you
and some other Republican candidates are doing and saying anything right
now simply to be heard over the roar of Donald Trump. Is there some truth
to that?

HUCKABEE: No, there`s not and I`ll tell you why. If I was going to make
noise about this, don`t you think I`d have a better forum than a weekend
satellite radio show that I didn`t even thing that many people would be
listening to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Joining me now are Dana Milbank and Shira Center. Thank you
both for being here.

DANA MILBANK, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Good evening, Rev.

SHIRA CENTER, POLITICAL EDITOR, THE BOSTON GLOBE: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Dana, is governor Huckabee trying to out-trump Donald Trump and
can that even possibly be done?

MILBANK: There`s no way to trump Trump, Reverend. And it`s not clear
whether, you know, Huckabee in his own mind thinks that that`s what he`s
doing. But, you know, let`s face it. This is what needs to be done by all
these guys in this race because Donald Trump, it has been said many times,
has sucked all the oxygen out of here. And you know, has this runaway lead
now. And they`re realizing that the method to success in the Republican
primary, certainly the only way to break away from this pack of 16 is to
say something outrageous. So that`s why you have Ted Cruz trying again to
disrupt the Senate and calling Mitch McConnell a liar. That`s why you have
Lindsey Graham performing all kinds of antics with a cell phone.

The candidates all sort of feel like they need to be a little more
outrageous to get a little attention and get one of those important slots
in the debate.

SHARPTON: Shira, I mean, what do you think? Because clearly it`s working
for Trump. He`s surging in the polls. There`s a new poll out now that has
him in New Hampshire at 24 percent, double that of Jeb Bush. I mean, do
other candidates think that if they can`t beat him, join him?

CENTER: I wouldn`t be surprised if other candidates are purposefully
taking extra steps to get out in front of the spotlight and making sure
they are getting their share of media attention right now.

Dana is right. So much of this is about making one of those top 10 slots
in the national polls so they can get on the debate stage on FOX because it
is -- from there, with more debates and there will continued limits on the
number of people on that stage, they might look to national polling again.
So, it`s not even about the debate next Thursday. It is about the next
couple of months and continuing to get on the right stages.

SHARPTON: Well, there`s work for Huckabee, Dana. I mean, will he go up in
the polls?

MILBANK: Well, you know, it`s hard to say. And you know, when you`re
sitting there at eight percent in the polls, well, if you jump up to nine
percent, is that really an increase here? I don`t suspect this is going to
mean he`s going to out-trump Trump here. But it does get attention when
this sort of thing occurs. And you know, I mean, there`s this debate about
when Donald Trump went after John McCain. Would that finally bring him
back to earth? And there was early evidence that it was. No. And here he
is surging again in New Hampshire. So it seem to be that there`s only
upside in the short-term in the Republican Party for being outrageous.

SHARPTON: Isn`t it a down side, Shira, for the party and for the country?
I mean, if we turn the primaries into like a wrestling match where the
concerns of people -- I mean, we have real problems from climate change to
the criminal justice system and where all this is lost in who can make the
most outrageous statement against the other? And then if you do become the
nominee, how do you clean all this up and make people seriously think you
can be the leader of the free world?

CENTER: Yes, exactly. So I wouldn`t compare it to a comparing wrestling
match. I just call it what it is which is a shouting match. In shouting
to get the most attention these guys can in the next week and in the
subsequent weeks after that. So I don`t think it`s necessary -- I do think
it will be a problem for many of them, for the person who does get the
nomination in the end to clean up some of the stuff that they`re saying
really outlandish things right now.

Let`s remember, this country still -- this is kind of a 50-50 country
especially in presidential elections and if there isn`t a third party
candidate running. Coming down to it in 2016 every single vote will matter
and there are going to be people, perhaps Jews, who are turned off by Mike
Huckabee`s comments.

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: I mean, people just don`t want bizarre behavior sitting up in
the oval office.

You know, Dana, I`m no great supporter of Jeb Bush, but Jeb Bush is On the
Record criticizing Huckabee`s comment, but he went even further. I want to
play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need men and women of good will
forging consensus starting to solve problems kind of building back the
muscles of consensus, compromise and solution finding to fix these things.
And I`m going to be a candidate that actually proposes that. Apparently
that is dangerous in the Republican primary, but it`s what I believe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: SHARPTON: Dangerous in the Republican primary. Could that get
him in trouble even though people like me think it`s the right thing?

MILBANK: Well, you know, the truth hurts, Reverend. And Jeb Bush has said
this before, you know, that you got to be willing to lose some primaries to
win a general election. That`s obviously true.

You know, Donald Trump is not going to be the president of the United
States. Mike Huckabee`s not. Ted Cruz is not. Jeb Bush could be because
he`s a serious viable candidate and he`s protecting himself in that way.
Now, does he wind up making himself unelectable in Iowa and in the New
Hampshire primaries by preserving his long-term longevity? Well, that`s
entirely possible. But if a Republican candidate doesn`t do that, then
they might as well just have the Hillary Clinton coronation right now.

SHARPTON: But Shira, could this kind of talk hurt Jeb Bush for saying what
he said, even though it hurt him in the general election, could it hurt him
in the primary?

CENTER: You know, I don`t think so, Rev., and here`s why. The field is so
large, 16 candidates, you have five social conservatives, you have five
super stringent fiscal conservative. It is so vast in terms of policy as
well in the Republican Party that it kind of lets Jeb Bush be Jeb Bush in a
way Mitt Romney couldn`t afford in 2012 in the primary necessarily. So I
don`t think it will damage him as much as some people say because in many
ways he can stake out his way with maybe some competition from other more
moderate Republicans as well but in many ways gives him his own lane to
ride to the primary.

SHARPTON: Dana, you know, a new Bloomberg report says Donald Trump is
worth a lot less than he says, but still worth $2.9 billion. Compare that
to the 2012 election where the total spending for both President Obama and
Mitt Romney came to about $2.1 billion. He`s got more money even when you
deal with the down figures than they spent on the whole election last time.

Trump is worth more than the total of the 2012 campaign. Can he stay in
the race as long as he wants because he has that kind of money assuming
he`ll write big checks?

MILBANK: Right. He`s not going to spend $2 billion on his own. He`s not
going to liquidate his assets. But I think that`s why people take him even
remotely seriously, and that is why he is where he is because, let`s face
it, you buy elections now. And politics is all about how much money you
have or how much money is being given to you by your friendly billionaires.
So that`s the only reason Trump is being taken seriously and it`s self-
fulfilling.

SHARPTON: Isn`t that the contrast, though, Shira, the Democrats are
debating income inequality and the lead candidate of the Republicans were
debating whether he has $10 billion or $2.9 billion?

CENTER: There`s no question right now Republicans are talking almost
solely about Donald Trump, at least until Mike Huckabee`s comments today.
And there is a difference. We sent a reporter to cover Hillary Clinton`s
town hall this morning and she -- most of her questions were about domestic
issues. You go to anyone of these town halls in New Hampshire and most of
the questions for Republicans are all about foreign policy issue.

So I do think there`s a distinct difference in terms of what both of the
candidates from either party are talking about right now. It is because
those are what the party voters are asking them.

SHARPTON: Dana Milbank and Shira Center, thank you for your time tonight.

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the Clinton campaign hits back at critics on the
right and in the media. But is the damage done?

Also President Obama in the fourth quarter of his presidency and making
jokes about a third term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I actually think I`m a
pretty good president. I think if I ran, I could win, but I can`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Plus an extraordinary development in the Sandra Bland case.
Authorities released a new video of her alive in jail to debunk conspiracy
theories on the web.

And what two very different 911 calls reveal about a deadly road rage
incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some maniac`s (INAUDIBLE) following me trying to run me
off the road. My gun`s already out. It`s cocked and locked --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: A big day on the trail for Hillary Clinton. She held a town
hall in New Hampshire where she side stepped a question on whether she
would support the controversial keystone pipeline expansion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is President Obama`s
decision, and I am not going to second guess him because I was in a
position to set this in motion, and I do not think that would be the right
thing to do. So I want to wait and see what he and Secretary Kerry decide.
If it`s undecided when I become president, I will answer your question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: She was far more direct when she challenged Senator Mitch
McConnell`s accusation that she`s playing the gender card in her campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Senator Mitch McConnell gave an interview when he said, she`s
playing the gender card. Well, let me tell you, if being for equal pay for
equal work is playing the gender card, deal me in. I am ready to play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: And then there was this touching moment when a young boy asked
her the most challenging question of the day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think is the most important part of life
like out of all the things in life? Such as, health care, education and
all that stuff. What do you think is the most important?

CLINTON: What a great question. I think we have either a future
philosopher or a theologian.

Actually, I think the most important thing in life is love. It also may be
the hardest thing in life. I had a great friend, a woman who was a
research physician academic who was so feisty and fought for, you know,
women`s rights way back 40, 50 years ago. And toward the end of her life,
I heard her say, I have loved and been loved and all the rest is background
music. And to me, that really summed it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Great answer, Secretary Clinton.

When we come back, the challenges Hillary Clinton is facing in her
campaign. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: The Clinton campaign has spent days hitting back against some
faulty reporting about her in "The New York Times." Republicans went wild
with that "Times" story from last week that originally claimed
investigators were seeking a criminal inquiry into her email use.

Today the "Times" published to editor`s note admitting the justice
department said they weren`t criminal referrals. And the "Times" public
editor said the papers reporting was quote "to put it mildly, a mess." But
as that editor warned, you can`t put stories like this back in the bottle.
They ripple through the entire news system. And many Republicans are
ignoring the problems with the story to advance their talking points.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Now, let`s not be fooled
here. Secretary Clinton is a former senator, a former secretary of state.
She knows exactly how classifying material works. At this point, the best
thing for Mrs. Clinton to do is to come clean and just turn the server over
to the IG at the state department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: One possible consequence of the GOP attacks, we`ve seen her
favorability take a serious hit this year while her unfavorable ratings are
on the rise.

Joining me now is Karen Finney, a senior spokesperson for the Clinton
campaign. First of all, thank you for being here, Karen.

KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Great to be with
you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Are you worried that even faulty reporting on Mrs. Clinton is
having an impact?

FINNEY: You know, Rev, let me just take a step back for a minute and tell
you, we`re very concerned about what happened here. Not only was it - I
mean, it was flat-out wrong and it was a very serious charge to suggest
there was a criminal inquiry which turned out to be wrong and it took
several days before we finally got the whole thing unraveled and the paper
sort of started to make changes last week and over the weekend. And then
early this week, finally admitted the wrongdoing.

Here`s what I`d say. I mean, I think this whole issue is becoming very
politicized. And I think what we`re seeing here, we`ve seen a pattern
where information has been released and leaked, if you will. And then,
it`s based on partial information, the next day more information comes out
that actually disputes the initial information, and then we find out the
truth. And then, you know, as the public editor said, then the first story
is definitely still out there.

So we have grave concerns about that, obviously, and the politicization
that we`re seeing out of Gowdy`s committee and I think, frankly, you see
that from John Boehner just now.

SHARPTON: But does this have an impact? I mean, recent Quinnipiac poll
shows Secretary Clinton trailing GOP rivals in key swing states. In
Colorado, Scott Walker has a nine-point lead over her. In Iowa, Marco
Rubio has eight-point lead. In Virginia, Jeb Bush is leading secretary
Clinton by three points. Does this signal trouble, Karen?

FINNEY: You know, here`s what I`d say. We`ve got a long way to go in this
campaign and we`re not yet at the point where you`re seeing if she should
be the nominee, Hillary Clinton, make a head-to-head argument with any of
those candidates. And I think we feel very confident that by time we get
to Election Day and we`ve had that contrast and we have made those
arguments on issues like voting rights, like immigration reform, like the
economy, quite frankly, and the idea -- her idea that we need to increase
people`s incomes and Jeb`s idea and the others` idea that we need to let it
trickle down some more. So I think once we get to a point where we`re
making that argument, I think voters are going to know that Hillary Clinton
is the one they can trust.

SHARPTON: All right. Well, let`s deal with the primary.

Mark Halpert in that Bloomberg writes that Bernie Sanders, the underdog in
the primaries, might be more of a problem for Hillary Clinton than anyone
realizes. Quoting Halpert, "based on how things are shaping up so far,
Sanders has the potential to adversely affect Clinton in numerous ways
echoing the underdogs who ran before, Romney, Bush and Dukakis, not
coincidentally all lost the White House. Could a candidate like Bernie
Sanders end up undermining Secretary Clinton`s campaign?

FINNEY: Well, like I said there`s certainly no surprise that it`s become
more competitive because we always thought it was going to be competitive.
That`s something we said months ago, and a lot of folks thought we were
kidding about that. So we`re not surprised to see this. And we have
acknowledged that it is possible in Bernie Sanders, he could win Iowa, he
could win New Hampshire. That`s part of why she has to be out there which
she --.

SHARPTON: You think he could win Iowa and New Hampshire?

FINNEY: You know, some folks do. And we have talked about that. And we
have to, you know, that`s part of what from the beginning of this campaign
as Hillary herself said we`re not taking anything for granted. And she`s
out there working hard on the trail every day. She was in New Hampshire
today, as you pointed out, to make sure voters know we`re not taking
anything for granted.

SHARPTON: You keep hearing the undercurrent among some saying there`s a
trust factor. How do you confront that? I like her, but I don`t know if I
trust what she`s saying?

FINNEY: So again, I think that`s part of what a campaign is all about.
And that is, you go out and you make your argument and you talk with voters
about who you are and what you stand for, what you`ve done and what you
would do.

And again, I think at the end of the day, voters say can I trust this
person to look out for me and my family, to help us get ahead and stay
ahead. Who is going to be the person who I believe can deliver on that?
And so, I think that`s really the argument that we`re making. And we are
doing our campaign in our way and Bernie`s doing his in his way and the
voters will obviously have their say. But I think we`re confident that
when it gets time to voting, voters will say, you know, Hillary Clinton is
the person that I know I can trust to get the job done.

SHARPTON: Karen Finney, thank you for your time. Going to be a long
campaign.

FINNEY: Sure is.

SHARPTON: We`ll be doing this a lot. Thank you.

FINNEY: Thanks.

SHARPTON: Coming up, new video of Sandra Bland alive in her jail cell
while officials released it and what it tells us about a conspiracy theory
on the web.

Plus Mike Huckabee`s heard a lot of criticism this week, but one thing he
hasn`t heard yet. We got you. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Mike Huckabee`s running commentary on Iran has been outrageous.
A steady stream of Donald Trump-style extremism. And now Huckabee is
ripping another page from the Trump playbook -- flip-flopping. Trump has
jumped far to the right acting like he never said things like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton I think is a
terrific woman. I mean, I`m a little biased because I`ve known her for
years. I just like her. I like her and I like her husband.

I`m very pro-choice. A liberal on health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: I`m pretty sure Donald Trump wouldn`t stand by any of those
comments today. And I wonder if Mike Huckabee stands by this? In 2007 the
former governor gave a speech where he called for engaging with Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUCKABEE: Another way to contain Iran is through diplomacy, while never
taking the military option off the table. We haven`t had diplomatic
relationships with Iran in almost 30 years, most of my entire adult life.
And a lot of good it`s done. Before I look parents in the eye to explain
why I would be putting their sons or daughter`s life at risk in military
action against Iran, I would first want to know that we had faced face-to-
face and done everything possible to avoid that conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: So in 2007, Huckabee was all for diplomacy with Iran, but in
2015 he`s calling president Obama naive for negotiating and making
outrageous comments about the holocaust? Did he think we`d ignore this
Donald Trump-style flip-flop? Nice try, but we got you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Time now for the "Justice Files." Joining me now are Eric
Guster and Seema Iyer. Thank you for being here.

SEEMA IYER, "THE DOCKET" ON SHIFT MSNBC: Thanks for having us.

ERIC GUSTER, LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Up first, developing news. Investigators just released hours of
video from three days Sandra Bland spent in Texas jail before she died. It
showed Bland being booked into the jail, in a holding cell making a cell
phone and more. At one point you even see Bland in the same room with the
trooper that arrested her as he fills out paperwork. Bland was found
hanging in her cell two weeks ago. The medical examiner ruled her death
suicide by hanging and there are still investigations in progress but a
family insists she would never kill herself. So what led investigators to
release this much of videos on Tuesday afternoon?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rumors that Sandra Bland was in some way deceased
or harmed or not well when she was brought into the Waller County jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Now one of the rumors they wanted to put to rest, people`s say
Bland`s mug shot was taken after her death. Seema, have you ever heard of
this sort of thing, rumors leading to a release like this?

IYER: Absolutely not. However, it`s clearly the fundamental reason why
we`re getting so much video and so much transparency that we normally
wouldn`t have happen.

SHARPTON: They said that, I mean, Eric, they went to great lengths to
release this video, what does that suggest about the suspicion surrounding
this case?

GUSTER: Well, there`s lot of suspicion because Sandra Bland was a blogger,
she was an activist against police brutality and she`s dead in police
custody. So, people are thinking that something happened to her at the
hands of police. So, the police officer wanted to make sure whether the
department --

SHARPTON: The arrest on the dash cam was very much over the line in many
people`s opinion.

GUSTER: Totally over the line with the arrest.

IYER: I think we all agree that there was no basis for this stop.

SHARPTON: For her to be in jail. Right.

IYER: And there was no basis for the stop. Because if there was a lawful
basis for her to be stopped, then the police officer would have legality to
take her out of the car.

SHARPTON: Right.

GUSTER: Yes.

SHARPTON: And I think that that is what starts a lot of this is the
initial act. How they end up with the investigation, she wouldn`t have
been in custody without the stop and without being incarcerated three days
which clearly is way over the line when you`re talking about changing lanes
without a turning signal.

GUSTER: Far over the line because you look at the video. Sandra Bland
says, give me my ticket so I can be on my way. But that officer, he was
trying to provoke her. And that`s what he did. Put her cigarette out.
When she didn`t, then he pulled her out of the car and started harassing
her even further.

SHARPTON: Right.

IYER: This is worst. This is much more than Sandra Bland. This is Waller
County that is under suspicion.

SHARPTON: And it`s all of what`s going on around the country. Let`s move
to the next so-called road rage killing. That`s what they called it. So,
the road rage killing in Florida. Two men driving with their families got
emotional. After the dispute on the road. And both, both called 911 at
almost exactly the same time Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOYLE: Some maniacs has been following me trying to run me off the road.
My gun is already out, it`s cocked and locked. I`m going home. The gun`s
coming out. I`m going to put it in his head.

GONZALEZ: I got your number, buddy. I got your number, buddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: The man with the gun, Robert Doyle, drove to his house despite
his wife`s pleas to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOYLE`S WIFE: Don`t take them to our house. The police substation`s right
up the street.

DOYLE: There`s never any cops there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Condelario Gonzalez followed him to his house and a deputy says
Doyle started firing, killing Gonzalez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GONZALEZ`S WIFE: Don`t shoot!

DISPATCHER: Sir?

GONZALEZ`S WIFE: I have 911 on the phone.

(Gunshots)

GONZALEZ`S WIFE: Oh my God, he shot my husband.

DISPATCHER: Okay, you need to get in your truck and leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: But investigators say, Doyle would not let her leave. They say,
he held Gonzalez`s wife, daughter and grandchild at gunpoint until deputies
arrived. Doyle is charged with second degree murder and aggravated assault
with a deadly weapon. He is out of jail on bond. Eric, how unusual is
this to have 911 calls narrating both sides of an incident as it happened?

GUSTER: I`ve never had anything like this. I`ve had a victim, I`ve had a
person who may be a defendant, but never both narrating what both people
are thinking and both people are saying in the cars. And this is going to
be a tough case for self-defense in this one which we were talking before
we came on, this is going to be a very tough case for self-defense.

IYER: But that`s because Gonzalez`s story falls apart that he is following
Doyle to the house to find out where he lives. Rev, if you want to report
a driver for some type of activity, you get their license plate. So, now
you have the wife and Gonzalez who the story falls apart.

SHARPTON: The guy follows him with his wife, his daughter and his
grandchild and the other guy kills him in front of his wife, daughter and
grandchild.

IYER: And hold the family hostage.

SHARPTON: And then holds them hostage.

GUSTER: And it goes to both of them being at fault.

SHARPTON: All while they have 911 live on the phone.

GUSTER: Yes.

IYER: And children and wives.

GUSTER: That`s what makes it very rare. Both have 911 on the phone. Both
of them are partially wrong. And it`s going to be interesting if the jury
finds it there was actually self-defense or if he believed --

SHARPTON: But is the stand your ground doctrine in effect here? This is
Florida.

GUSTER: He will raise it but the question is whether --

IYER: Absolutely not.

SHARPTON: Absolutely not, why?

IYER: Because the event stops. That exigency, that emergency stops when
the cars stop.

GUSTER: But he was at home, he was at home, Seema.

IYER: No, no, no, no, no.

GUSTER: If you follow me to my house, and I think you`re going to kill me
--

IYER: He wasn`t at home, he was going home.

SHARPTON: But the actual shooting happened at his house.

GUSTER: At his house. He pulled into his house.

IYER: It happened at his house, but the emergency is removed when you have
911 on the phone.

GUSTER: No, it wouldn`t stop you from shooting if you`re getting out of
your car.

IYER: There`s no direct proof that at that moment --

GUSTER: So, I want you to stop shooting me if you have a gun.

IYER: I think it removes the immediacy and the emergency and exigency at
that moment. I think they`re separate acts.

SHARPTON: But isn`t that why stand your ground is so controversial to
people like me because you can claim it and not claim it -- I mean,
theoretically, you two are the lawyers. He`s at his house. He left
wherever they were and the guy came to his house.

GUSTER: Yes. The man came, brought the problem to him. That is what I
see in this case. If you come to a person`s house and threaten them, that
is when stand your ground really --

SHARPTON: And what about gun custody. He had a gun in his car?

GUSTER: Yes.

IYER: And he`s saying to the 911 operator it`s cocked and loaded. It
shows deliberate thought and intent.

GUSTER: That someone is trying to kill me and I`m going to defend myself.
That is what he was trying to --

IYER: Not when you`re cocking and locking.

GUSTER: You`re just going to unload your gun if someone`s trying to kill
you?

IYER: At that moment in time, there`s no immediate threat.

GUSTER: There`s someone following you home. If someone was following you
home, Seema, your heart would be racing, you`d be nervous.

SHARPTON: Let me call this court to order. Eric Guster, Seema Iyer, thank
you both for your time tonight.

IYER: Thanks, Rev.

GUSTER: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Don`t forget the catch Seema by the way on "The Docket" Tuesdays
at 11 a.m. Eastern on Shift by MSNBC. Still to come, how the first female
coach in the history of the NFL is tackling stereotypes in sports.

Plus, President Obama says if he ran for office again, he would win. We`ll
look at it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Donald Trump has asked a lot of questions about President
Obama`s background. So, he might want to listen up. On the President`s
trip to Ethiopia, he visited Lucy, the skeleton of an early human ancestor
that`s over three million years old. And as a scientist honored to explain
Lucy is part of both the President and Donald Trump`s background.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one week ago, to show them that every single
person, billion individuals including Donald Trump can come through this
ancestry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Hope that clears things up for Trump. President Obama made some
other big news on that same trip to Africa. You`ll want to stick around
for it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: I have no more campaigns to run.
My only agenda -- I know because I won both of them.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SHARPTON: President Obama has won two national elections. And now he`s
publicly saying he thinks he can win another.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I love my work. But under our constitution, I cannot run again.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

I can`t run again. I actually think I`m a pretty good president. I think
if I ran, I could win. But I can`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: And a new poll indicates many Americans agree he`s a good
president. Forty nine percent of Americans approve of the way he`s
handling his job. Strong numbers for a president in his seventh year. So
maybe he could win a third term if the constitution allowed it. One thing
is for sure, it would drive Republicans absolutely crazy. But the
President says he`s not actually planning anything like that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I`ll be honest with you, I`m looking forward to life after being
president. I won`t have such a big security detail all the time. It mean
I can go take a walk, I can spend time with my family, I can find other
ways to serve. I can visit Africa more often.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: There won`t be a third Obama term, but will his legacy influence
other presidents for generations to come?

Joining me now are political strategist Angela Rye and MSNBC contributor
James Peterson. Thank you both for being here.

JAMES PETERSON, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Rev.

ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: James, he may be joking, but could the President win a third
term if he ran, if the constitution permitted it?

PETERSON: If the constitution permitted it, yes, because the Obama for
America Coalition as you know, Rev, is a very well organized machine. It
represents a lot of different facets of American society. And even though
there are those folks who are disenchanted with the President or
disappointed in him not achieving some of the progressive goals that he
laid out at the initiation of his presidency, I think it`s still pretty
clear that he`s popular amongst the American people. What`s great about
that clip though, Rev, is that he`s speaking to leadership across the
continent of Africa, to leaders who are not willing to --

SHARPTON: He was telling people that day at some point need to move on.
But Angela, you`re a political strategist. Do you think the President
could win a third term if it was permitted?

RYE: Well, I sure do. I mean, yes, we can still runs deep in the veins of
many Americans including my own. But I have to hearken back to hell no, we
can`t, or hell no, we can`t. From John Boehner who of course is the
speaker telling Barack Obama what his limitations would be. He of course
is now in line with the constitution on this one point. I think the other
part that makes this particular moment special to me. Of course, James
just mentioned where the President talked about this and the significance
it has on the continent of Africa, but the other part of this and of
course, we`re not going to go into this too deeply is this trip is so
historic because there are 18 members of the Congressional Black Caucus who
are also on that trip with the President. So, that`s a very special moment
for lots of reasons but you never know what the President might have up his
sleeve. There could always be someone else from the Obama camp.

SHARPTON: I just couldn`t help but fantasize for just three seconds if you
had President Obama versus Donald Trump, the birther against the birthee.

RYE: Yes.

SHARPTON: Or the birth.

(LAUGHTER)

PETERSON: That would be great for TV.

SHARPTON: Yes. Well, let`s move to a more serious subject, though, he
can`t run for a third term, James. But he`s counting on Hillary Clinton to
carry his agenda forward or whoever wins the nominee. Let`s say Hillary
Clinton. At this point she`s presumed nominee, but you really don`t know
anymore. But Politico writes, "To win in 2016, Clinton must wrap her arms
around the most successful democratic presidential candidate in recent
history. And Obama views Clinton as the guarantor of his legacy." How
important for the President`s legacy is that a democrat win in 2016?

PETERSON: I`m not sure that that`s essential to what President Obama`s
legacy will ultimately be in terms of when the history books write about
his presidency, there`s so much more to write about in terms of what he`s
accomplished, in terms of who he is, what he embodies. I think the history
books will distinguish his presidency no matter what. I do think that the
Obama administration looks at the possibility of a Clinton presidency as
the extension of his presidency, but only that`s required. But remember,
Hillary Clinton has a lot of work to do to sew up that Obama coalition. We
say of the Obama coalition as if it`s an easy thing.

SHARPTON: No, I got that. But I`m talking more about his legacy because
Angela, wouldn`t he have a lot to be concerned about that if a republican
got in, they would try to reverse many of the things that he has put in
place?

RYE: Of course, and I think that`s the biggest fear for not only
progressives but Democrats across the spectrum right. A number of places
where we agree, whether it`s health care, even though the Supreme Court has
sided with the President twice now, whether we`re talking about a fair pay
for women, for people of color, there are a number of strides that have
been made that, of course, Secretary Clinton had a part of making. So he
is very vested in whoever the next democratic nominee will be. And I think
that he`s been very clear that he wants to see that person win, not only to
protect what his legacy goals and accomplishments have been but also to
ensure that this nation continues down the path forward.

SHARPTON: Because here`s the point, James, and you`re the academician
here. 2016 election focus on the Supreme Court and with good reason. "The
Week" writes, quote, "By January 2017, three of the justices will be in
their 80s." Three of them. Another will be 78. It would be strange if at
least one or two didn`t retire in the next president`s term. The last
three presidents each appointed two justices. If the next president gets
that chance, no matter which party he or she comes from, it will profoundly
affect the court`s decision. Now a different supreme court could also undo
a lot of progressive policies like affirmative action, abortion rights and
public sector unions are all cases the court could hear in the next term,
James.

PETERSON: That`s true. I`m actually surprised that this Supreme Court
issue has not been more center stage in terms of the run-up for this
election as it stands right now when you just think about that. Think
about the kinds of decisions that have been settled over the course of the
Obama administration`s term through the Supreme Court. So, that change
over and having a conservative versus a progressive court or vice versa.
It`s one of the key issues in this election that I don`t think we`re
talking about yet.

SHARPTON: The last three presidents picked two.

PETERSON: Picked two.

SHARPTON: And Angela, we`re talking about voting rights, all of these
things going in front of a court that only went five-four this way. If a
right-wing president puts one more seat there, that`s what scares me and
drives me crazy when we`re in Trump land or playing circus games. We`re
talking about rolling back everything that was achieved in the last 50
years since the civil rights and women rights and labor rights movements.

RYE: Yes, Rev, I think you`re exactly right. As you know we are upon on
August 6th, the 50th commemoration of the voting ryes act. And of course,
we just saw last year them completely gut the voting rights act. And now
members of Congress have introduced a fix to that. And we can`t even
hardly get that considered. It is so important that the court is
reflecting the values of this country, its protecting its citizens and
that`s a battle that we will continue to face. It is going to be much
worse if there`s a conservative in the White House. And I think it`s just
absolutely why we have to continue to focus not only on what`s been
accomplished but how to preserve those things and continue to move forward.

SHARPTON: Well, it`s not only the White House James Peterson, I`m talking
about you have got cases coming up on affirmative action. Roe versus Wade.
Voters rights act. All of this happening before President Obama.

PETERSON: That`s right.

SHARPTON: And all could be reversed.

PETERSON: That`s right. Marriage equality could be reversed as well. I
mean, it`s unthinkable but even ObamaCare, right? So, these are real
serious issue again, Rev, I`m interested as to why this is not center court
in terms of our discussions about presidential politics right now.

SHARPTON: They call it side show distraction.

RYE: Yes, that`s exactly right. Reality --

(CROSSTALK)

SHARPTON: Angela Rye and James Peterson, thank you for your time tonight.

PETERSON: Thanks, Rev.

RYE: Thank you, Rev.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the NFL`s first female coach. And breaking down
barriers in America. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHARPTON: Finally tonight, breaking down barriers and moving the country
forward. Sometimes in football and in life, progress can be three yards
and a cloud of dust. This week 37-year-old Jen Welter became the first
female coach in the NFL. She was hired as an assistant coach for the
Arizona Cardinals. She broke the news on Facebook writing, quote, "I`m
honored to be part of the bird game." I love the football family here with
the Arizona Cardinals. Today Welter talked about how she hopes to inspire
other young women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN WELTER, ARIZONA CARDINALS ASSISTANT COACH: The hardest thing in our
society right now, no offense, is the media. We show little girls all the
time to be beautiful and to, you know, to do it all the wrong ways. I want
little girls to grow up knowing that when they put their minds to
something, when they work hard, that they can do anything, regardless of
those things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: Becky Hammon of the NBA also accomplished a first this year,
becoming the first woman to coach a summer league team. And by the way,
she won the championship. Also making headlines this week, the Boy Scouts.
On Monday, Boy Scouts of America ended its ban on gay leader. It`s a huge
turning point for an organization that`s been divided on the issue. And
it`s a decision that`s long overdue. The President of the Boy Scouts
talked about it in a video statement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT M. GATES, PRESIDENT, BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA: For far too long
this issue has divided and distracted us. Now it`s time to unite behind
our shared belief and the extraordinary power of scouting to be a force for
good in a community and in the lives of its youth members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHARPTON: A force for good in the community. The entire community. When
barriers come down, whether it`s your particular race or gender or sexual
orientation or not, when barriers come down, it opens up America for
everybody. And we all should celebrate barriers coming down because that
means that those barriers cannot be used against us. Let`s keep bringing
barriers down. Let`s keep cheering people across the goal line of
inclusion and expanding what the country ought to stand for, for everyone,
and it protects you as it protects all.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.

END

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
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