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PoliticsNation, Thursday, July 30th, 2015

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Date: July 30, 2015
Guest: Erin McPike, Cornell Belcher, Jay Rollins, Tim Noah, Marc Morial;
Damon Lynch; Midwin Charles; Val Demmings; Jay Rollins

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on "Politics Nation," the body cam
murder case. Official investigating other officers in the police shooting
of an unarmed man in Cincinnati.

And Donald Trump taking center stage literally. With reports of chaos
behind the scenes of the first GOP debate.

Plus the comedy skit that has gone viral, making a serious point about how
we value athletes and teachers.

Welcome to "Politics Nation." I`m live tonight from Miami.

We start with breaking news in the shooting of an unarmed man at a traffic
stop. Tonight, the prosecutor confirm that he is investigating other
officers in the incident and the University of Cincinnati has put two
officers who arrived after the shooting, on paid administrative leave.

Today, the prosecutor released video from both of those officers` body
cameras. The video shows Officer Ray Tensing now facing a murder charge in
the moments after the shooting.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you cover me? I`m going to shut the car off.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I though he was going to sun me over.





SHARPTON: Here`s the other new angle. It shows officers trying to keep
people in the neighborhood away. The university has now fired Ray Tensing
as an officer.

Today, he was in court for the first time. He pleaded not guilty to murder
in the death of Samuel Dubose. A judge set his bond at $1 million.
Tensing`s attorney said his client plans to claim self-defense. And
Tensing`s body cam video shows him saying he thought Dubose would run him
over. He first said it less than two minutes after pulling the trigger.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That guy was going on run me over. I`m not injured. I
almost got ran over by the car. He took off on me. I discharged one
round. Struck the male in the head. I think I`m OK. He was just dragging


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought I was going to get run over. I was trying to
stop him. He was dragging me man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Are you good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m good. I just got my hand and my arm caught.



SHARPTON: The prosecutor has disputed Tensing`s claim that he was dragged.
Now, he`s turning his attention to the other officers as well.

Joining me now, former Orlando police chief Val Demmings and legal analyst
Midwin Charles. Thank you both for being here.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Val, now we have three police body camera videos. What strikes
you about them?

of all I`m glad as I think every law enforcement agency should be glad to
have this body camera footage. Without it, I think we would be in a
different place. And I believe everybody, citizens and law enforcement
agencies alike want the truth. The body camera catches that.

It is very interesting to look at what Officer Tensing said. But also the
others who responded. Cameras don`t judge. They don`t have perceptions.
They just capture the facts as they are presented and I think the facts are
very clear in this case. I believe the prosecutor got it absolutely right.

SHARPTON: Now, Midwin, you see that Tensing says in a little less than two
minutes that, I thought he was going to run over me. And immediately says
he dragged me. The videotape does not show any of that, including his own.
What do you make of the investigation into the other officers?

MIDWIN CHARLES, ATTORNEY: Well, one of the things that strikes me, and I
think it is quite disturbing is that him making that statement in and of
itself. He tries to immediately start setting up the story and setting up
the narrative. And I think that the two officers who were on the scene all
of a sudden start to corroborate what it is that he believes, or he tries
to say happens. And what makes this so disturbing is we also saw this in
the case of Walter Scott when he was shot in the back. That police officer
as well as other police officers corroborated --

SHARPTON: Walter Scott`s case in North Charleston, South Carolina where it
was also on videotape.

CHARLES: Correct.

SHARPTON: Val, the prosecutor talked about Tensing`s claiming he was
dragged. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Do you think this officer intentionally tried
to mislead investigators as to what actually happen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think he was making an excuse for a purposeful
killing of another person. That`s what I think.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Even with the body cam on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not saying he`s smart. I`m saying that`s what I
think he did.


SHARPTON: Val, intentionally tried to mislead? That`s a quote. How does
that affect the case?

DEMMINGS: Well, I think it is very, very powerful. You know, Reverend
Sharpton, cameras don`t lie. They just captured what they see. They don`t
judge. They don`t have an opinion. They just capture what they see. And
obviously, the footage from the body camera does not show at any point from
any angle this officer being dragged. So obviously that did not occur.

SHARPTON: Now Midwin, the university released Tensing`s records. Here is
part of what they say. According to NBC News quote "the supervisor wrote
that Tensing should interact with the public more outside of traffic
enforcement to improve his demeanor." The university president says they
will review training and procedures for officers. What changes could we
see, Midwin?

CHARLES: Well, we could see change where police officers are better
trained to deal with these situations. And that statement tells me that he
probably had a problem with dealing with people. And sometimes that, I
think, is at the crux of these sort of incidents that we keep seeing over
and over again all across America. Its police officers who perhaps do not
have a lot of interaction with African-Americans. And then when they do
pull one over, they have these sort of deep seated ideas about what might
happen. And so I think it is very interesting that you have the university
saying that.

But let me also point out, Rev., that this officer on this case I think is
spot on. You rarely see that in these kinds of cases. And I really
applaud him for the stands that has taken on this case. It has been almost
immediate. The way in which he`s been answering the questions. The way he
has hand this from the very beginning. It is like you know what? What you
see is what I see. And what I see is murder. And that`s what a prosecutor
is supposed to do.

SHARPTON: Val, you know, the body camera that you commended and that many
of us have been saying we need all over the country, the university uses
body cameras but the city of Cincinnati does not. Do you feel this will
push what many of us in the civil right community has said, we need body
cameras everywhere. It doesn`t solve all the problems but this is an
example of what it can do. And do you agree with the local mayor that says
that the city of Cincinnati should be policing at the university?

DEMMINGS: Well, first of all, let me speak about body cameras. Certainly
had we not will the camera in this instance, the outcome of this case would
have been quite different, I believe, which would have been a tragedy. We
want justice to move forward.

So I think that Cincinnati and every police department in this country
should push to get body cameras. Many times it is a budgetary issue. But
I think the preservation of the truth is more important than any budget

In terms of who polices the university there, I believe it goes back to
hiring, number one, the brightest and the best people to enforce our
streets, to police our streets, whether that is on the street of Cincinnati
or on the college campus. And then once you hire the best person who has
that life experience of dealing with diverse communities, then you train,
train, and train even more.

SHARPTON: Val Demmings and Midwin Charles, thank you both for your time

CHARLES: Thank you.

DEMMINGS: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Now I want to bring in Reverend Damon Lynch from Cincinnati. He
was calling for the body camera video to be released from the beginning.

Thank you for being here, Rev.

you, sir. Appreciate it.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you. How important is it that we now have body
camera videos from three officers?

LYNCH: Well, it is extremely important. But what it shows to the American
public is that police officers lie. The video didn`t lie, but the officers
lied. And America needs to know that. The black community has known from
day one that police officers lie. So -- and we`re also pushing CPD,
Cincinnati police to have body cameras immediately as the president`s 21st
century task force has said that all officers need body cameras. Without
the body camera, the only story we would have are the officers and would
have been held as truth.

But the family, especially Sam`s mom, believe firmly in God, believe firmly
in her son that her son did nothing for his life to be taken. So the body
camera is extremely important and all officers need it.

SHARPTON: Now, you have had your community for years. You and I have
worked together on situations right there in Cincinnati. How is the
community responding to this news that the prosecutor is investigating more
officers in this case?

LYNCH: We expected that. All officers who lie need to be prosecuted. The
prosecutor is doing his job. We want to see it swift as possible. And we
think we`re getting that swift justice. The same as Marilyn Mosby did in

But what`s interesting because in a criminal justice system, racism is from
top to bottom. When Marilyn moved quickly in Baltimore, she was vilified
by the right for prosecutor who is a white Republican is moving fastly and
he being roundly applauded. We applaud the fact that he is moving fastly.

You cannot tell me if that had been a white woman sitting in that car who
didn`t have a license plate in front of her car, that that officer would
have stepped back and put a bullet in her head.

We have been asserting since for 400 years that black lives matter. There
is a large black lives matter group here in Cincinnati of young people who
are out here almost every day. There are still elders out here fighting
for the assertion that I ought to be well asserted and others black lives
matter. And that has to be sounded out around this country.

SHARPTON: Good. And what I`m saying good about is raising the issues and
they have done it in a very forceful but peaceful manner. I think people
try to depict people in certain ways that just has not come to pass.

LYNCH: Right. It`s been peaceful and I give a lot of the credit to the
family of Samuel Dubose. They are people of strong faith. I give to it a
community who was ready to act. We`ve already pass ad collaborative
agreement here after 2001 to make policing better. It is a motto for the

But you never know what can happen. You know, if this thing is not over
yet, this is not a period. It is just a semicolon. There is much more
justice to be done. And we can`t keep talking about one row cop. This is
a nationwide problem.

SHARPTON: Substantive change in policing.

Reverend Damon Lynch, always good to see you. Thank you for your time.

LYNCH: You too, Reverend. Appreciate you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, reports of chaos behind the scenes of the first GOP
debate. Who is in? Who is out? And is Donald Trump really going to be
central stage?


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Preparing for the debates. I am
who I am. I don`t know. I`ve never debated before. I am not a debater.
I get things done.


SHARPTON: Plus, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush on the same stage tomorrow
spelling out their visions for social justice.

Also, a comedy bit goes viral and makes a serious point. What if America
treated teachers like athletes.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the first pick, central rapids high takes calculus
teacher Mike Yost from Tulsa teachers college.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, you`re a millionaire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Yost is an unbelievable story. His father living
from paycheck to paycheck is a humble pro football player. The kid was a
natural (INAUDIBLE).


SHARPTON: We`re about to see something we won`t often see this election
season. Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush addressing the same civil rights
group on the same day. We`ll talk to the man who invited them both, Marc
Morial from the national urban league. Next.


SHARPTON: Welcome back. I`m here in Miami where I addressed the National
Urban League Convention today.

The spotlight is on social justice. And tomorrow it will turn to 2016. At
that same convention, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush will both be here
addressing the conference. It is a critical moment for both campaigns. A
chance to reach a critical coalition. Already this year, we`ve heard
Hillary Clinton highlight criminal justice reform and voting rights.

But the states are equally high for Jeb Bush. Just take it from Mitt
Romney. Months after losing to President Obama, Romney says his campaign
failed to reach out to minorities and it hurt him.


taking my message primary to minority voters, to Hispanic-Americans,
African-Americans, other minorities. That was a real weakness. We did
very well with the majority population but not with minority populations.
And that was a failing.


SHARPTON: But are Republicans learning that lesson? The urban league
invited 11 Republicans to speak. But most are not coming. I`m looking
forward to hearing what Governor Bush and Dr. Carson have to say. But
these are important issues and we have to hear from all the candidates.

Joining me now is Marc Morial, president and CEO of the national urban
league. Thank you for being here, Marc.

And thank you for being with us today.

SHARPTON: Let me ask you, Mark. Jeb Bush and Ben Carson will be there.
But is this a missed opportunity for the Republican candidates who won`t be

MORIAL: I think it is a mistake to ignore any part of the American
population because it is only through coalition politics is the path to the
presidency. In an increasingly diverse nation, African-Americans, Latinos,
millennials, are part of what I call the new growing swing voters in this
country. So no one should ignore any segment of the population if they
truly, truly, truly want to be the leader of the nation and that`s what the
commander in-chief and the president are.

SHARPTON: Now, the "Miami Harold" preview Jeb Bush`s speech to the group
tomorrow, and they write that his inclusive message would face a tough test
before African-Americans. That`s their quote. Jeb Bush`s record as
governor included signing stand your ground and overseeing voter purge.
Does he have to address these issues? What do you speck for is Jeb Bush
and Ben Carson and Hillary Clinton and the others to address tomorrow?

MORIAL: Here is what we have asked them to address. You know, our theme
here is save our cities, education, jobs and justice. And that 21st
century agenda for jobs and freedom that the national urban league and the
national action network and NAACP and black women`s round table and 60
other organizations put together two years ago has been shared with all the

This is about saying, here`s our blue print. Here are our ideas. We like
to see indeed where they stand. And I think since we`re early in the
campaign, I`ll also be keenly watching as to whether candidates that engage
and continue that engagement.

Our voters, our constituents neither want to be ignored nor do they want to
be taken for granted. And the fact that we have five coming I think is a
positive step because it means that we are going to have a good discussion.

I don`t know how the crowd will react to any of them. One thing I do know
and that is people have civil rights and social justice issues on their
mind. Police accountability, criminal justice reform, the voting rights
act, jobs and income inequality. Particularly the racial wealth gap. All
of these issues are high on people`s minds. And we don`t want to have a
reality TV show and we will not have a reality TV show form here. We are
going to have a serious conversation about the serious issues. And I`m
hopeful that they are going to come with thoughts and ideas and not just

SHARPTON: Now, it`s interesting to me as we have the heightened sense of
people around the country concerned about social justice, something you and
I have been involved in in terms of being on the ground and been involved
for some time.

And we also have the first time that whoever wins will succeed in African-
American president. So that as I said in my address to your group today,
there`s a heightened sensitivity here. It is going to be very challenging,
though, that we not have this reduced to a reality show. But that we hear
substantive issues. You put out a report card every year on black America.
And the inequality, the gap between blacks and whites in America from
education to health care to economics, to wealth, is still broad. Do you
want to hear specific plans on how we address that gap and close that gap
and particularly in the criminal justice area?

MORIAL: No doubt, Reverend. In the criminal justice area as you know,
finally, there is a bipartisan effort that has emerged to make some change
in the federal criminal justice system. I hope these candidates are going
to talk about that. I hope they`ll talk about the voting rights act and
our need to protect democracy by fixing, if you will, the damage done by
the Supreme Court two years ago.

When it comes to jobs and joblessness, our numbers show higher unemployment
in the African-American community than in the overall community and a very
serious problem in a number of cities where we have 15, 20, 25 percent, 30
percent unemployment. We need jobs. We need training. We need a leader
and a president who will talk about their plan and their goals in order to
be able to address these disparities.

So there`s a whole lot to talk about. What the urban league hopes and I
know you share with this, is that candidates are going to be serious about
saying, I want to engage. I want to not only talk to you. I want to
listen to you. And I want to be able to continuously engage you throughout
the campaign.

This is first post Obama election. And what we certainly don`t want to do
is reverse course when it comes the civil rights enforcement. Reverse
course when it comes to the kind of commitment that the Obama
administration has exhibited to so many issues. We have to maintain the
momentum. We have to expand the momentum because there is tremendous work
left to be done.

SHARPTON: Well, there`s a lot at stake as I shared with the audience
today. And President Obama has really raise the bar. And we are going to
see who tries to reach and keep it going in the areas that many Americans
are concerned about.

Marc Morial, thank you for your time tonight. Great convention.

MORIAL: Reverend, thank you for being with us today. And thank you for
having me.

SHARPTON: Ahead, breaking news on the missing Malaysia air flight.
Investigators have new evidence that a piece of debris could be from the

Plus, new reports about the candidates scrambling behind the scenes of the
first GOP debate. It is chaos on the right and lots more ahead.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are reports that Trump is overstating his wealth
by more than $7 billion. But Trump has denied the rumor saying that`s a
million percent untrue.



SHARPTON: Breaking news on the search for that missing Malaysia airplane.
Today, investigators confirmed to NBC News that the fragment found on the
remote island of Reunion is from a Boeing 777. The same type of plane as
the missing flight. That debris will now be sent to France for further

Earlier today, investigators found this damaged suitcase in the same area
of the island. It`s a stunning discovery, thousands of miles from where
the plane took off and where it was last seen. This is one of the great
aviation mysteries of our time. But it is also a personal tragedy for
families looking for closure.

Joining me now is captain Jay Rollins, a retired American airlines captain
and former U.S. Navy pilot. Thank you for being here, captain.

pleasure, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Now, tell me about this report that investigators say the
investigators say the debris matches a Boeing 777. How important is that?

ROLLINS: Well, it is absolutely vital and it is almost certain that it is
the aircraft. There are no 777s there missing other than this aircraft.
And it is located in the same ocean. The other aircraft that have crashed,
which have just been a handful, have all been accounted for.

SHARPTON: So it`s in same ocean. But how could wreckage travel so far? I
mean, 4,000 miles from the plane`s last known position?

ROLLINS: Oceanographers say that there are ocean currents, large currents
called gyres that actually move anything along its path. We have the same
thing going on here in the Pacific Ocean and after the Japanese meltdown of
their nuclear facilities, a large gyre carried that material back to the
West Coast of the U.S. months later.

SHARPTON: Now, if this piece of debris is indeed a piece of the missing
Malaysia Airlines flight, what clues could it give us about what happened?

ROLLINS: Well, there will be barnacles that they`ve already discovered on
this piece of equipment, and there are ocean biologists who will be able to
determine what part of the ocean those barnacles came from. In all
likelihood, the aircraft did travel south like they`ve described from the N
Morissette satellite information. But they weren`t able to find it. And
over the months that large gyre eventually in a counter clockwise motion
moved all of that trash towards the Madagascar coast.

SHARPTON: Now, given your experience, do you expect search teams to find
more debris in the area soon?

ROLLINS: I do. But it is probably well spread out after all these months.
That that`s -- is at the families has said as all of this have been for
them, will finally have closure that in fact that aircraft did go down in
the ocean.

SHARPTON: Well, we certainly continue to give our prayers to the families.
And certainly as they see closure in this. And we`re going to certainly
keep our eye on this.

Captain Jay Rollins, thank you for your time tonight.

ROLLINS: My pleasure.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Donald Trump says, he`ll be quote, "nice and
respectful to the other candidates in the GOP debate." We`ll talk about
that, next.


SHARPTON: We`re exactly one week away from the first republican debate and
while some candidates are still clearing for a spot on stage, the leading
contenders are working to tap down expectations.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As far as I`m preparing for the
debates, I am who I am. I don`t know, I`ve never debate before. I`m not a
debater. I`ll get things done. I show up. I look forward to it. And
that`s all I can do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: I don`t care whether it is 20 candidates, ten
candidates, two candidates, I`ve always treated debates as a conversation
with the voters. Don`t worry about the other people on the stage. Just
connect with the people. Tell them why you vote, tell them what in your
heart. Don`t worry about punch lines.


SHARPTON: Trump also tweeted today, quote, "I look forward to the debate
on Thursday night and it is certainly my intention to be very nice and
highly respectful of the other candidates. Well, we`ll see about that.
But right now, we`re not even sure who else will make the cut. Here are
the top ten right now. The pack led by Donald Trump, Jeb Bush and Scott
Walker and for the first time, rounded out by Ohio Governor John Kasich.
Kasich`s rise knocked Governor Rick Perry down to the second tier. But in
the main event, Donald Trump will be center stage. I mean that literally.
A new report says the candidates will be lined up according to their poll
numbers. Putting Trump front and center. And there`s no denying he has
the definite appeal to a certain part of the GOP base. Just check out this
focus group from Bloomberg Politics.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of the politicians talk and let`s say, passed all
colors, they talk for two hours and you go away saying what do they say in
substance? It`s probably nothing. But they haven`t offended anybody and
tried to make everybody their friend. Well, Donald Trump is in vivid
colors because he says things the way they are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like his roughness and little Reaganesque comes to


SHARPTON: That is the driving view of that, that is getting support for
Trump in the primaries at the polls. And it is that view that could hurt
the GOP in the general elections.

Joining me now, political analyst Erin McPike and democratic pollster
Cornell Belcher, thank you both for being here.



SHARPTON: Erin, one week out from the debate, Trump says, he`ll be very
nice and highly respectful, do you believe him?

MCPIKE: I think so. We`ve never seen Donald Trump debate before, as he
said. Now, he is certainly going to be the central figure on that debate
stage. But I think what we`re going to be watching for is what he says
about policy. Because you have three very capable and solid moderators
next Thursday night, and Megyn Kelly, Bret Baier and Chris Wallace. And
they are known to really tried to pin down candidates and as the
frontrunner who is going to be on the center of the debate stage, you can
bet that they`re really going to see what he believes on immigration
further than just building a wall. How he`ll handle the other candidates,
that remains to be seen. If we are going to see any fireworks, I would
expect that it is going to be between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump on
immigration since they are going to be standing right next to each other.

SHARPTON: Now, Cornell, Trump may be the ultimate primary candidate in
terms of the republican base, but he doesn`t fell well in the general.
Take a look at this. Hillary Clinton beats him 48 percent to 36. Bernie
Sanders beats him, 45-37. And Vice President Biden, who hasn`t announced
whether he is even running squashes him, 49-37. He is polling well in the
primary. But this could be very damaging for the GOP`s 2016 chances,

BELCHER: Well, you know, Reverend, I look at polls this far out.
Especially national polls this far out and I take it with a grain of salt.
I mean, look, I work for a guy by the name Barack Obama once upon a time
who all the national polls didn`t have him doing too well either. At some
point, you do have to, you know, get the nomination. And what Trump doing
right now I think is tragic politics for America but it`s actually
brilliant politics for winning the republican nomination. He is taking up
a space, racially averse bombastic, you know, thumb your nose inside
Washington. Thumb your nose at the media, spaced within a republican
primary that no one else has owned and no one else has taken. And in a
crowded primary field, that 30, 34 percent, may in fact win him a couple of
states. We`ll worry about the general election when it comes. If I`m
working for Donald Trump, I`m not worried about journalist right now
because I have got to win the nomination. And he is doing things right now
that make sense for him owning a coalition within a republican primary.
That if it stays crowded, it gives him the opportunity to win.

SHARPTON: I accept that Erin. But you must also at some point, the
voters, even in the primary process have to think about winning. And they
want to see their party win because that`s their party and they agree with
it. And at some point, does some of the abrasive and some of the very
controversial comments he makes, make many feel that where we can win if
he`s the candidate. Like the optics of, he will be center stage at the
debates. I mean, what will that say to American voters, that someone that
has come off very caustic in many ways, he is the center of the party right

MCPIKE: Well, here`s what you have to realize. Comment after comment that
he has made over the past month or two has only helped his rise. Every
single time he makes a controversial comment, the media immediately
declares the death of his candidacy. And then, what do we see? We see his
poll numbers come up. After he made some disparaging remarks about John
McCain, his numbers in New Hampshire where people thought his numbers would
going to go down, those numbers went back up. And you know what he did
after that was he announced a coalition of 51 veterans in the state of New
Hampshire with some state representatives, and of course, those are very
important in New Hampshire getting those endorsements and he said that he
would build veterans hospital in New Hampshire where there isn`t one right

So, he is continuing to do the things that presidential candidates do and
his number are going up. And New Hampshire voters like seeing him in the
race. Obviously as he continues to get questions about policy if he can`t
answer those. Then, he might start sliding back down but for the moment,
he is doing quite well. And those controversial comments aren`t affecting
him. We expect them from him so I don`t think that there`s a reason to say
another controversial comment means he`s going to be out of the race.
Right now he is rising because of them.


SHARPTON: So the risk Cornell could be in the debates if he can`t come up
with substantive answers, or if he looks like that he is no more than a
sound bite. So, he has a lot at stake next Thursday night, a week from
tonight because he now has to answer, assuming the moderators press him on
some real, real policy questions.

BELCHER: I think that`s right to a certain extent, Rev. But I`m going to
go the opposite way to a certain stand here. I mean, if you look at what
that focus group was saying, that focus group was saying that Trump is
calling it like it is. He`s being substantive and in fact, not paying --
and being very straight forward and calling it like it is. Let`s be clear.
We don`t think he is speaking substance. But when he is bombastic the way
he is, that primary electorate thinks he was substance. This is what I
will predict. Those reporters won`t be tough on Donald Trump and try to
nail him down on policy. He will be bombastic and it will look like the
media is beating up on him and his poll numbers will continue to rise.

SHARPTON: Well, Erin, if that is the case, then how does anyone that
really does not want to be bombastic and really be different than Trump,
how do they beat him? How do they win the debate even?

MCPIKE: I think that`s the big question. I also think that we`re going to
see the other candidates or at least the candidates who are polling well in
the top five, let`s say, hold back in this first debate to see how Donald
Trump performs. Maybe he will stumble a lot. We also want to see how
Scott Walker performs. Because he`s really never had a national stage
before the way the Jeb Bush has. And he is polling in second or third
place. So, I think that`s something to watch there. But I think these
other guys are going to wait to see what he does and they may go after him
in the second debate or the third debate. But I don`t think they know what
the answer is or how to take him down yet. You first have to see how he
performs in this first debate.

SHARPTON: All right, Erin McPike and Cornell Belcher. Thank you both for
your time tonight.

BELCHER: Thank you.

MCPIKE: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Is Trump a contender or a pretender? We`ll take a closer look
at what he really thinks about issues like ObamaCare and ISIS.

And a new viral video is getting a lot of laughs while making a serious
point about teachers in America. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Coming up, Donald Trump loves to talk. But is he actually
talking policy? Or is it all about personality? Stay with us.


SHARPTON: With Donald Trump, the clear frontrunner, now the question is,
what does believed? What does he stand for? He`s been concrete on some
issues. Not so much on others. On immigration, he`s called for mass
deportation but also hints that some sort of path at legal status.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would get people out and I
would have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they
can be legal. Politicians aren`t going to find them because they have no
clue. We will find them, we will get them out.


SHARPTON: Bringing immigrants back into the country to get them legal
status? Some on the right would call that amnesty. Trump has been more
vague on foreign policy.


TRUMP: I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or be on that defeat
ISIS very quickly and I am not going to tell what you it is tonight. I
don`t want the enemy to know what I`m doing. All I can tell you is that it
is a fool proof way of winning.


SHARPTON: Well, I`m sure the Pentagon would love to hear Trump`s fool
proof plan for ISIS. What about health care?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re saying ObamaCare --

TRUMP: Has got to go.


TRUMP: Repeal and replace with something terrific?


SHARPTON: Something terrific. I`m all for it. I love terrific things.
And finally, what kind of boss would Trump be? Who would he put in his


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there is a Trump administration, could you see maybe
picking up the phone, giving the governor a call, picking her brain on some
things or perhaps having her along in some official capacity?

TRUMP: I would love that. Because she really is somebody that knows
what`s happening.


SHARPTON: President Trump and Secretary Palin. Interesting.

Joining me now is Tim Noah from Politico. He just wrote a piece about
Trump`s evolving views over the years. Thanks for being here.


SHARPTON: Tim, how does his beliefs now compare to his views even just a
few years ago?

NOAH: I would say that if you`re looking at the full breadth of Donald
Trump`s articulated political views, that it is actually easier to pick the
two or three things he`s been consistent about than it is to recite the
dozen things that he`s changed his mind about. He wrote two policy tomes.
One in 2000 and one in 2011. They read like they were written by two
different people.

SHARPTON: Now, I mean, a lot of people that have been out in the public
eye along time like even me have evolved on certain issues. You`re just
saying that, you`re implied from your piece, and you`re not talking about
just an evolving here. You`re talking about a total difference and a 180
degree turn in positions that are very, very much the majority of what he`s

NOAH: Yes. I would say that most of his ideas about what the government
should do changed between 2000 and 2011. And change rather dramatically,
for example, on health care back in 2000, he was in favor of single payer.
But he proposed as an interim measure, something that when he described it
in his 2000 book sounded an awful lot like ObamaCare. Only without the
individual mandate. In the 2011 book, he said he was dead set against
ObamaCare and one of the reasons he cited for being against ObamaCare was
that it was a way station to single payer. So we`re talking about that
kind of glaring unacknowledged inconsistency.

SHARPTON: All right. He hit the grounds running today in Scotland. Watch


TRUMP: Hillary Clinton was secretary of state. She was the worst
secretary of state in the history of our country. The world blew apart
during her reign. I think that I would be a great uniter. I think that I
would have a great diplomatic skills. I`ve had a great success in my life,
I`ve had great education, I went to the best school, one of the great
schools of the world and did well. I came out, I made a fortune.


SHARPTON: So yet he has said very complimentary things about Mrs. Clinton
and donated money. Does he run the risk then if these kinds of things are
brought out of appearing the disingenuous or is just someone who has change
his mind over time? I mean, and does he run the risk of being all
personality and no policy and just say anything at any given time based on
where he thinks public opinion is?

NOAH: He runs the risk of looking like he has a very short attention span.
Again, you know, we all change our minds. But usually when we do, we
provide reasons for changing our minds and we acknowledged that we have
changed our minds. It is very rare that you will see Trump even
acknowledge that he`s changed his mind about big things. For example on,
taxes. Back in 2000 he was proposing a 14.25 percent one time wealth tax
on all fortunes above $10 million. He said it would cost himself, $700
million. And at the time, Roger Stone who was advising him was quoting the
L.A. Times saying, you know, this is something that Mr. Trump has been
thinking about for a very long time. He feels very deeply about it. Well,
11 years later when he writes the second book, there is no mention of this
wealth tax that he feels very deeply about. And instead he is proposing
that you collapse the income tax brackets into five brackets with a top
marginal rate, dropping from 39.6 percent to 15 percent. So you see very
dramatic changes.

SHARPTON: Tim Noah, thanks for your time tonight.

NOAH: Thanks so much.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the comedy viral video that is making a serious point
about teachers in America.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, a comedy bit about teachers that`s gone viral.
Comedians Key and Peele does a spoof on ESPN Sports Center. But instead of
covering star athletes, the two covered world class teachers and called it
teaching center.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m please to think announce that I`m taking my
talents back to New York City. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, PS 431 has made Ruby an offer she couldn`t
refuse. Eighty million guaranteed over six years with another $40 million
incentives based on test scores. This puts her right up there with --
Katie Hope and William Woo.




SHARPTON: It`s a light-hearted way to discuss a real issue. What if we
valued teachers as much as athletes? It is true, my friend social
scientist Dwight McGee (ph) always says, who you admire helps determine
what you will aspire to. Who you look up to is where you many ways, in
many ways, get your values and your behavior from.

Thank you for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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