All In With Chris Hayes, Tuesday, August 4th, 2015
Read the transcript from the Tuesay show
ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
August 4, 2015
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT
THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED
Guest: Rick Wilson, Rick Tyler, Terry O`Neill, Brian Beutler, Joshua
Green, Jonathan Chait, Mike Pesca
ALEX WAGNER, MSNBC GUEST HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: In the first spot, directly center stage,
businessman billionaire Donald Trump.
WAGNER: The stage is set. Who will be standing with the unsinkable,
unthinkable Donald Trump on Thursday night?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think people are tired --
they`re sick and tired of incompetent politicians.
WAGNER: Plus, the push to shut down to government using Planned
Parenthood, the pranking on the campaign trail, and a little TMI from the
governor of New Jersey.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m a Catholic
but I`ve used birth control and not just the rhythm method, OK?
WAGNER: ALL IN starts right now.
WAGNER: Good evening from New York. I`m Alex Wagner, in for Chris
Breaking news tonight, the stage is finally set for this Thursday`s
first Republican presidential debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: We can now announce the ten candidates who will appear on
stage for the prime time debate Thursday night and the seven who will be
invited to the earlier debate on the same stage her in Cleveland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: FOX News made the controversial decision to allow only ten
candidates into its prime time debate, based on their standing in an
average of five national polls chosen by FOX News, and including FOX News
own poll. The network is also holding a separate debate earlier in the day
for the rest of the field.
In announcing the lineup a short time ago, FOX News hosts tried to
stress that the candidacies of the Republicans who missed the cut are still
to be taken seriously despite the fact that FOX relegated them to what many
have been calling the kid`s table.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: Again, it`s important to point out that any of those
candidates could bump up later on and be in a different position in a
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS: This is still almost seven, eight months
before people start voting in Iowa. Some of the people that are in the top
tier will fall back into the second tier, and some of the people in the
second tier will come forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Here is how the stage will look for the main event on
Thursday night. Front-runner Donald Trump who holds a double-digit lead
over his nearest competitor, he will be at center stage, flanked by Jeb
Bush and Governor Scott Walker, who are polling in second and third place.
Positions four through eight will be occupied by Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson,
Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Rand Paul. And down at the ends of the stage,
Chris Christie and John Kasich who squeaked in at about 3 percent support
These are the candidates who didn`t make it, and are being relegated
to that separate debate in 5:00 p.m. They include Rick Perry, who barely
missed the cut despite a series of high profile attacks on Donald Trump,
Rick Santorum who won 11 states and finished second to Mitt Romney in the
2012 nominating process, Lindsey Graham, a three-term U.S. senator, and
Carly Fiorina, the only woman in the 17-person Republican field.
Supporters of the candidates who won`t make the debate are trying to
put on a brave face in terms of what could be a major blow. One Rick Perry
adviser told "The New York Times" there was an upside to missing the main
event since, quote, "There`s a good chance that the 9:00 p.m. debate stage
is going to be turned into a circus." An adviser to the super PAC for
Bobby Jindal remained defiant, "The donor class will not pick the nominee,
nor will the establishment in Washington, nor a cable network."
Joining me now, Ezra Klein, editor in chief of Vox, Rick Wilson,
Republican media consultant, and Rick Tyler, national spokesperson for Ted
Cruz`s presidential campaign.
Rick Tyler, let me start with you since you`re in the thick of all
RICK TYLER, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR TED CRUZ PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN:
WAGNER: Good to see you.
TYLER: Good to see you, Alex.
WAGNER: Rick Santorum is angry about this. He`s calling on FOX News
to apologize. Do you think his anger is warranted?
TYLER: Well, look, the 5:00 p.m. -- remember 5:00 p.m. on the East
Coast is 8:00 on the West Coast. And 9:00 start for the second debate is
midnight on the West Coast. So, look, the 5:00 -- I think -- you know, the
network has done the best they could. All the networks will be faced with
the same thing.
And I think it`s right that the people who are on the stage now in the
so-called desired debate to be in --
WAGNER: Rick --
TYLER: Not going to be the same people 12 debates from now.
WAGNER: Just to be clear, Rick, the 5:00 p.m. debate is actually 2:00
p.m. on the West Coast.
TYLER: Thank you for correcting me.
WAGNER: I`m sure FOX appreciates the mathematical assist you were
giving, but at the end of the day --
TYLER: Going from the wrong direction.
WAGNER: Rick, respond to that -- 2:00 p.m. is not quite 8:00 p.m.
TYLER: No, it`s not 8:00 p.m., but look, again, it`s -- the polls are
going to change. And people who are in one debate are not going to be on
stage in the other debate, and people are going to drop out. And it will -
- remember, Mitt Romney didn`t even attend the first debate and he went on
to win the nomination.
Look, I think the debates are important. I think they`re important
for people to see and they can see all the candidates at the same time.
But, you know, 17 candidates on the stage is probably a little unwieldy.
WAGNER: Ezra, from an analytic perspective, I mean, this is a hard to
manage, right? As Rick Tyler points, 17 people on the stage is a lot of
people, somehow hey had to call the field. How do -- what do you make of
FOX`s efforts and the result that we have tonight?
EZRA KLEIN, VOX: I don`t think they had a winning position on this.
I don`t think there was one to be very clear. I think that 17 is too many
to have on stage.
Frankly, I think the number they`re going to have is going to be too
many to run an effective debate. You really want is three or four or five.
So, you`re going to have a situation where they need to let everyone in.
But how much time is Chris Christie really going to get in there?
The big problem I think -- I think the reason people are freaked out
about this debate is not actually the fact that some candidates aren`t
making the cut. That is a little bit unusual, but it`s not completely
I think much more of what`s going on is ha the breakdown is not coming
the way people expected. The fact that this debate, this hotly anticipated
clash will have Donald Trump in the center of the stage, because remember,
the way the board is actually set in the candidate polling the highest
actually gets put right there in the center. He`s going to get probably
the most questions.
The fact that he`s going to be right there in the center and you`re
going to have candidates who are really considered marquee players a couple
years ago like Perry, Santorum not even on the stage, that I think is what
is unnerving so many folks in the Republican Party. They`re not sure this
debate is going to represent them in the way they`re hoping to be
represented to the country here at the sort of the starting shot of the
WAGNER: Rick Wilson, if you had a horse in this race, which debate
stage would you want him on?
RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN MEDIA CONSULTANT: Well, look, you want him on
the main debate stage because he`s going to get a ton of eyeballs. And as
we all can acknowledge, Roger Ailes is brilliant at television, and he`s
framing a brilliant television event for that evening.
I think, you know, both Perry and Carly Fiorina are two folks who are
like fan favorites right now who have really, you know, been punching above
their weight class for this year, and there`s a feeling that John Kasich
and Chris Christie are, you know, weighing the book ends here of the stage
but aren`t really the folks that a lot of the folks grassroots want to hear
from in this campaign.
So, I`d rather have them in the big show obviously. There`s a great
risk this becomes the Donald Trump hour of excess.
WAGNER: Rick Tyler, how does Ted Cruz ensure this doesn`t become the
Donald Trump hour of excess?
TYLER: Look, I think there`s a misunderstanding that people are sort
of positing that Donald Trump would be embarrassing to have the center of
the stage. I`d be frankly be more embarrassed to have Bernie Sanders,
socialist, at the center of the stage. But set that aside --
WAGNER: Well, he`s not running -- yes, he`s not running in the
TYLER: No. But, look, we`ve got 17 really very impressive
candidates, very diverse field, and the Democratic Party looks like, you
know, "That `70s Show". And so, I mean, you look at the difference.
So, look, we have a blessing of riches. But I think misunderstanding
WAGNER: Let me interrupt you, Rick -- do you think the whole field
thinks of Donald Trump and the attendant other 16 candidates as a blessing
TYLER: I think what the point about Donald Trump is, as you just
alluded to earlier, that Donald Trump is an embarrassment to the Republican
Party, and that is just an indication of the establishment and the
Washington cartel doesn`t understand why Donald Trump is popular in the
first place. He`s getting 26 percent for a reason. He`s getting it
because he`s talking about and highlighting issues American people care
about and talk about and he`s putting action items to those as well.
Senator Cruz does that as well, a little differently than Donald Trump
does. But a lot of -- people are sick of the status quo. They`re sick of
politician whose pontificate and go on and on about all these problems, and
the debt, and the immigration and all this -- and nothing ever happens and
nothing ever changes.
I mean, look at the show Planned Parenthood vote just a couple of days
go. We got to defund Planned Parenthood, but they do nothing about it.
WAGNER: So, is Ted Cruz going to call for a shutdown based on Planned
Parenthood funding on the debate stage?
TYLER: He has called for a shutdown of Planned Parenthood, that`s for
sure, because I don`t think anybody, even pro-choice people could look at
these videos and think that that represents their values.
And we have the show vote we put on the U.S. Senate. But Donald -- to
the point, Donald Trump is talking about things and issues that people care
about and they`re sending the rest of the Republican field a clear message,
is talk about these issues and give us your answer to these issues and stop
trying the have it both ways.
WAGNER: I would push back.
WAGNER: Ezra, you have written about this. People are starting --
people are taking Donald Trump seriously. You look at the polling. He has
broad support. We`re going to have much more breakdown on that polling
later on the show.
And you wrote about this on Vox. Donald Trump is not to be taken
KLEIN: There is no candidate in the Republican field polling higher
than Donald Trump and none polling lower either. If you look at the
candidate that the most Republicans say they would absolutely not want as
their nominee it is also Donald Trump.
I agree with Rick on something -- Donald Trump is addressing important
issues that people feel very strongly about. The issues he`s addressing, a
lot of people feel vehemently that what he is saying is noxious and
And it is entirely possible for a candidate to be currently leading
the Republican field with 26 percent of the vote, which is nevertheless a
small minority of the Republican Party and be a huge embarrassment and
problem to the Republican Party.
Yes, I absolutely agree that that Donald Trump is tapping into
something real. I really think people should be taking what he`s saying
seriously and take seriously the idea that he represents a portion of the
But the portion he represents, the things he`s going out there saying,
it is an embarrassment, and it`s the reason you see tons and tons and tons
of Republican commentators tearing their hair out over this.
There`s a great "National Journal" profile of Donald Trump, and the
writer just followed him around for a while and he really went out looking
to take what Donald Trump is saying and doing seriously. And he couldn`t
find really any evidence of a political platform there. There`s not a tax
plan, there`s not an economic plan. Trump`s run is a run of ego, but it`s
also a run of channeling the things people are most frustrated and angry
And that`s really how you tip into demagoguery very quickly. And I
think it`s going to be very bad for the Republican Party even if it is
WAGNER: Rick Wilson, let me go to you. If you are Carly Fiorina, if
you are Bobby Jindal, if you are Scott Walker, what is your advice on
breaking through at this point?
WILSON: Listen, everybody has got a long time to go and a long time
to breathe. At this point in `07, my friend Rudy Giuliani was way up the
field and everybody thought he was inevitable. Hillary was inevitable.
These are things that are going to -- there are going to be a lot of
changes. The amplitude and frequency of the changes of the front-runner in
this -- in this political environment is going to surprise people. And
Donald Trump will fade eventually. The people that on the Republican side
who have been swinging at him I think will get some credit for it down the
line because they`re going to show strength against a guy who is eventually
going to be regarded -- it`s one thing to be the strong man, but it tips
over to being the bully very quickly.
I think Trump`s brand has a little time left on it. I still believe
that this we`re sort of in self reinforcing news cycle where Trump gets
coverage because he says something outrageous. Therefore, we get more news
And there are a few candidates in the field, and you, Rick, God love
you guys, you can keep throwing that alligator meat all day long. It`s
just going to eat you last.
This is not a guy that -- Trump is not a guy who`s running on a
political platform. It`s purely ego. It`s a giant con. The issues he
selected are not illegitimate. They are things that people are
legitimately angry about, but he`s playing people.
WAGNER: It may be a giant con. We`ll see if it is a long con.
Ezra Klein, Rick Wilson and Rick Tyler, thank you all for your time.
TYLER: Thank you.
WAGNER: Still to come, could we be facing a government shutdown this
fall over funding Planned Parenthood?
Plus, the unsinkable Donald Trump, more on why against all odds he
seems to be the untouchable candidate.
And later, for those of us who struggle with the summer heat because
it means frigid temperatures in the office, a little vindication this week.
I`ll tell you why, just ahead.
WAGNER: Jeb Bush`s campaign is frantically playing defense tonight
after an offhanded remark at the Southern Baptist Convention landed him in
trouble. Earlier today, Bush was answering a question about Planned
Parenthood, calling for it to be fully defunded when he said this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You could take dollar for
dollar -- although I`m not sure we need a half billion dollars for women`s
health issues, but if you took dollar for dollar, there are many
extraordinarily fine organizations, community health organizations that
exist, federally sponsored community health organizations to provide
quality care for women on a wide variety of issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: I`m not sure we need half a billion for women`s health
Those comments met with immediate outrage on Twitter, including from
Hillary Clinton who tweeted, "Jeb Bush, you are absolutely, unequivocally
wrong." Headlines like this from "Politico", "another gift for Dems"
started popping up almost instantaneously.
And then came the damage control, the Bush camp put out a statement,
quote, "With regard to women`s health funding broadly, I misspoke, as there
are countless community health centers, rural clinics and women`s health
organizations that need to be fully funded. I was referring to the hard to
fathom $500 million in federal funding that goes to Planned Parenthood."
They also released a statement from Bush`s former health care
secretary when he was the governor of Florida, a woman, conveniently
enough, who offers a firsthand testimonial on women eats health issues.
Up next, Republicans may see a political windfall in their fight
against Planned Parenthood, but it is not without serious risks.
WAGNER: Senate Republicans may have come up short last night on a
procedural vote to defund Planned Parenthood, but that was just the opening
salvo in a fight that is already starting the take over the presidential
campaign and is increasing the chances of a government shutdown when the
federal budget expires this fall.
Since 18 House conservatives pledged not to pass any new spending
bills that maintain Planned Parenthood funding, three GOP presidential
hopefuls have signaled their support for shutting down the government.
Texas Senator Ted Cruz, the man behind the failed Obamacare shutdown of
2013, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, looking to reclaim his Tea Party mojo,
and the Republican front runner, Donald Trump.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HUGH HEWITT: Would you support that?
TRUMP: Well, I can tell you this, I would and I was also in support.
If the Republicans stuck together, you could have done it with Obamacare,
also. They left a lot of people that really went in and wanted to do the
job, and you know what? If they stuck together, they would have won that
battle. I think you have to in this case also. Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
WAGNER: Already, Planned Parenthood`s funding is poised to be the new
conservative purity test for potential Republican nominees. After the
first debate on Thursday, about half of the candidates head to Atlanta for
the Red State gathering, a conservative conference hosted by Erick
Erickson, founder of the influential Red State blog.
Erickson wrote in a post last week, "If Republicans are not willing to
make this their hill to die on and even see the government shutdown to stop
this, the Republican Party needs to be shut down." Erickson later tweeted
that he intends to ask each candidate at the gathering if they will support
a government shutdown if that`s what it takes to defund Planned Parenthood.
Conservative Republicans who have long had their sights set on Planned
Parenthood seem to see a foolproof opportunity in the undercover videos
purporting to show Planned Parenthood staff discussing the sale of fetal
tissue for medical research, a fifth video was released today and the anti-
abortion group that made them says more are coming.
But the videos don`t actually show any illegal activity and Planned
Parenthood maintains it makes no profit from tissue donation. And if
Republican lawmakers end up boxed into a shutdown fight, they may find they
have overplayed their hand.
Joining me is Terry O`Neill, president of the National Organization
So, Terry, it seems to me there are two camps of Republicans, some
like Jeb Bush who say we should defund the organization and others who are
prepared to go the full monty, if you will, and say we need to shut down
Can you have it both ways? Can you just say in this modern Republican
Party, defund it but not be willing to shut down the government?
TERRY O`NEILL, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR WOMEN: Well, apparently not.
Evidently, the Republican leadership entirely has gone onto a crazy train.
I mean, there`s really something scary, Alex, when United States
senators, Mitch McConnell included get into bed with the violent fringe of
the anti-abortion movement. The folks who put out this video are actually
supported and founded by individuals with Operation Rescue which has a long
and sorted history of violent attacks on abortion providers.
WAGNER: Terry, what I don`t understand is the "war on women" line of
argument, if you will, so effective in defeating Republicans in previous
election cycles. You would think that the establishment would do
everything in its power to keep the fringe from bringing this up.
Mitch McConnell initially didn`t want to take a vote on defunding
Planned Parenthood. Now, he`s on board. You saw Jeb Bush today get all
kinds of twisted around in a statement at the Southern Baptist Convention,
ultimately, saying in this garbled way, I am not sure we need half a
billion dollars for women`s health issues, something he`s going to be
clarifying and explaining and presumably apologizing for, for the next
O`NEILL: Yes. Well, one hopes he will be apologizing for it.
Look, Planned Parenthood serves over 2.7 million women, men and young
people every single year. You can`t replicate that. You can`t defund
Planned Parenthood and have anything like a health system that could step
in and provide services to 2.7 million people.
So, a vote against Planned Parenthood was a vote specifically against
women`s health care. That is why my organization is going to be targeting
Senator Kelly Ayotte, Senator Lisa Murkowski, Senator Joe Manchin -- these
are people who hold themselves out in some way in favor of women`s issues.
Nonsense. You voted against Planned Parenthood. We`re going to come
after you. Those individuals are up for re-election in 2016. We`re going
WAGNER: Do you think it makes any difference that the Senate
Republicans have tried to use women in their caucus to lead this charge,
trying to soften their image or at least say they`re not completely out of
touch with the female sex?
O`NEILL: Well, I think it makes sense to those men that it would make
sense. Women are not fooled. You know, women know how important Planned
Parenthood is to women`s health care.
One many five women in this country, by one estimate, have used
specifically Planned Parenthood`s services, and there are many other
excellent health care centers that provide the full range of reproductive
health care to women including abortion care. But women throughout this
country, Republican women and independent women and Democratic women love
Planned Parenthood because it provides such excellent services.
So, the men think that they can hide behind the skirts of these women.
That`s not going to work with the women voters. The Republicans are on
track to lose the women`s vote massively.
And, by the way, I think they`re on track to lose the millennial vote
that`s both women and women millennials for decades, for generations.
WAGNER: Thank you, Terry O`Neill, for that. And thanks for your
O`NEILL: Thank you, Alex.
WAGNER: Joining me now is Brian Beutler, senior editor at "The New
Brian, I want to talk about what is shaping up to be another
government shutdown fight. And you have a great piece in "The New
Republic" that went up yesterday night. You get to the nugget of this,
which is Republicans are overplaying their hand and yet, one sort of very
powerful part of their base doesn`t see any cost to political brinkmanship
and government shutdowns, so they keep doing it.
Will they ever learn their lesson?
BRIAN BEUTLER, THE NEW REPUBLIC: Well, I don`t -- I`m not sure, but
it`s really the case that anti-abortion, you know, segment of the
Republican base has been sort of lied to by conservatives who wanted an
issue to beat Democrats over the head with. But the actual material in the
video raises issues that if addressed on a sort of honest level wouldn`t
make a lot of fireworks. Is it right for, you know, Planned Parenthood to
recoup the costs for donating fatal tissue? Should those costs be born by
women who have abortions?
These are issues that might generate some controversy, but not at the
level that we`ve seen.
What, you know, Republican base, what conservative activists have fed
to pro-life people is that Planned Parenthood is this criminal fetal organ
harvesting organization. If that`s really what you think it is, then even
though there may not be a strong political logic to shutting down the
government in order to stop it, you think there`s some kind of crisis and
maybe this is the only way to wake up the rest of the country to what`s
The problem is it`s not just what`s going on, and so you can`t build a
real consensus to stop it.
WAGNER: Yes. But, Brian, you know, the fight against Planned
Parenthood has been raging for some time now.
WAGNER: And it boggles the mind that the establishment thinks they
can sort of feed, they can stoke that fire and not get licked by the
flames, that they can sort of -- that they can embrace these disingenuous
edited videos by an undercover organization that may have been acting
outside the law and sort of stoke the indignation around that and not
expect a sort of group of people who have been jonesing basically for the
shutdown of Planned Parenthood to try to push it to its furthest limit
using whatever levers of power they have, which we`ve seen time and time
again is shutting down the government.
BEUTLER: Right. And so, when the video started coming out, you had
conservative activists, you had pro-life groups immediately spinning this
into an idea that you had something ghoulish and awful happening at Planned
Parenthood, and it was systemic, and that the only way to stop it was to
shut down Planned Parenthood.
And at that point, I feel like the Republican leadership, the leaders
of the Republican Party had a basic choice. They could either say, no,
that`s not what`s happening in these videos and as much as we don`t like
it, abortion is legal in this country. And as it is legal, fetal tissue
donation is something we think should be legal or should not be legal. And
if we`re going to debate this, we`re going to debate it on those terms.
Instead, they felt either that their jobs would be put at risk if they
didn`t confront this head-on or that it will be, you know, worth it to fold
that segment of their electorate back in now that the Republican primaries
are in full swing. And so, they didn`t stop it.
And, you know, if they were willing to negotiate a full budget with
Democrats where they could sort of horse trade at the margins over issues
that include funding for women`s health care, they might be even able to
provide a minor victory for anti-abortion causes.
But instead what they`re doing is demanding everything and saying
we`re going to fund the government at current levels and we want to do it
with a rider that says no more funding for Planned Parenthood and that
can`t pass. If that`s the only thing they`re willing to offer, then the
only way this ends is with a government shutdown.
WAGNER: And haven`t we heard that refrain before?
Brian Beutler, always good to see you. Thanks for your time.
BEUTLER: You, too. Thanks.
WAGNER: Up next, the realist struggle on the presidential campaign
trail, getting pranked. We will have some of the best ones so far coming
WAGNER: Republican front-runner Donald Trump is attacking again,
this time he`s angry at a group of college students he says are fraudsters
and liars. And when you hear about the tomfoolery you might just agree
that he has reason to be upset.
The art of the campaign prank is as old as campaigns themselves.
Recall in 2008 when Mitt Romney`s own children called him pretending to be
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, 2008 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What can I do for
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First, I would like to just get to know you.
ROMNEY: Well, we`ve had the chance...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to ask you a bunch of questions and I want
to have them answered immediately.
ROMNEY: Go right ahead and shoot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Or when two Canadian deejays fooled Sarah Palin into thinking
they were the French president Nicolas Sarkozy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FRM. REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I look
forward to working with you and getting to meet you personally and your
beautiful wife. Oh my goodness. You`ve added a lot of energy to your
country even with that beautiful family of yours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. You know, my wife Carla
would love to meet you even though she was a bit jealous that I was
supposed to speak to you today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Witness the pranks pulled on Governor Scott Walker this year
alone. He tried to eat a Philly cheesesteak in piece while two men stood
behind him holding up signs reading Scott Walker sniffs his own poop and
Scott Walker lives inside my butt.
Walker tried to pose with people holding a supportive sign, only to
have those people turn the side over to reveal a fake check from the Koch
Which brings us to Donald Trump who has never had a fully impenetrable
media team, something Ali G. made abundantly clear.
SASHA BARON COHEN, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: My idea is to come out with just
like these ice cream gloves that make the ice cream not go on your hands
and make it all sticky and also keep your hands warm when you is eating the
ice cream. Is you in or is you in?
DONALD TRUMP, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER: Well, it sounds like a good idea
and I hope you make a lot of money.
Good luck, folks. It`s been nice seeing you. You take care of
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: this time a picture appeared online yesterday of a beaming
Trump with a good of students under the headline The Crimson endorses Trump
Sadly for Donald Trump at least, the same Harvard newspaper did on
such thing. Instead, the elaborate ruse was most likely part of a rivalry
between the Harvard student newspaper and the university`s humor magazine
Maybe next time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR; The stunning news, although we`ve
kind of gotten used to it in the last week or two, Donald Trump the
billionaire developer is going to be front and center in the prime seat as
the leader, the front-runner at this point, for the Republican presidential
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Many in the media, including Fox News` Chris Wallace, have at
times seemed incredulous that Donald Trump is the Republican presidential
front-runner, but he is.
Given that, there is an intense effort under way to determine why so
many Republicans are rallying behind a candidate who holds positions that
would seem to be anathema to so many Republicans.
Trump has called himself pro choice. He has endorsed single payer
health care, he has praised Hillary Clinton`s performance as secretary of
state and he has donated to Democrats, and that`s just for starters.
Yet he is dominating the Republican field decisively. One new poll
showed Trump leading among Republican who are rich, poor, old, young, male
and female as well as both college grads and those without a degree.
Last night, Fox aired a focus group from New Hampshire that offered a
little insight into Trump`s appeal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am against the fact that they are saying that
low information voters -- I am against...
UNIENTIFIED MALE: Do your research, do your homework...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ...insulting my intelligence because I am for
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He donated to Hillary. He`s donated to Schumer...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Trump supporters in Iowa told GQ magazine that they, quote,
that Trump won`t back down and that he, quote, won`t take no stuff from
Just this hour Trump was asked by Bill O`Reilly if he was shocked at
all by how good his poll numbers are?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, the poll numbers are not only good, I mean, they`re
phenomenal. We just got numbers from South Carolina which are through the
roof, Iowa, New Hampshire, not only the national numbers. So, I`m very
honored by it.
But what it really shows is that people are tired of incompetence.
They don`t want incompetent politicians running our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: Joining me is Jonathan Chait, columnist New York Magazine and
Joshua Green senior -- senior Trump correspondent at Bloomberg politics.
That`s not a real beat. But it is.
JOSHUA GREEN, BLOOMBERG: I got a promotion.
WAGNER: Yeah, exactly.
Jonathan, let me start with you first. In terms of deciphering
Trump`s appeal, I feel like you get closest to it. And I`ll quote from
your piece. Trump`s affect supplies his appeal, you write. He is strong,
mad and above all unapologetic in a world that demands he apologize. He`s
not the spokesman for an idea at all, but the representation of
undifferentiated resentment. The resentment is the whole point. It is the
beginning and end for his candidacy.
JONATHAN CHAIT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: I think that`s right. And it`s
useful for us to go back and look at how Republicans regarded these waves
of rage that were springing up from the base since Obama became president.
And so many of them thought it was ideological, and they thought the answer
was, well, we have to be against health care, and we have to be against cap
and trade, and we have to be against everything. We have to be against the
But I think trump is showing that you just have to be kind of an angry
to really display the feelings that they have in the Obama era, or at least
a lot of them, that they don`t really care about the issues at all. They
just want someone who acts the way that they feel, and he`s doing that.
WAGNER: Yeah, Josh, and you had a series of tweets that sort of broke
down important polling on Trump and how Republican voters feel. And one in
particular to Jonathan`s point, the angry electorate. Moderate Republicans
in the new
Bloomberg Politics poll only narrowly favor Jeb Bush 20 percent, over Trump
19 percent. I`m assuming that`s in the margin of error. I mean,
effectively moderates are going equally for Trump as they are for Bush.
GREEN: Yeah, it is absolutely remarkable. If you look into the cross
tabs of the new Bloomberg poll, not only does Trump have a huge lead in the
Republican field generally, but he has a tremendously powerful appeal to
every segment of the Republican Party.
And I agree with John. I think the reason is that Trump has become a
vessel for the maximal expression of rage and outrage at not only
Republican leaders and President Obama, but pretty much the whole political
institution, the whole political world including shows like this one and
people like me and you, and Trump more effectively conveys that anger than
anybody else out there.
And I think that`s just the key to his appeal and it explains
everything and it`s a huge, huge danger for the Republican Party.
WAGNER: There seemed to be a lot of hypocrisies embedded in his
candidacy, Jonathan, but one that hasn`t been discussed as much as others
is the idea that the foundation of his message is this idea that America
sucks, that it`s emblazoned on his trucker cap that he wears around that
says make America great again. The presumption being that America has
fallen, that the good times are not what we`re experiencing right now.
And I think about that message, and if the current president offered
even close to that kind of message, they would ask for his impeachment. I
mean, I remember when Michelle Obama said at one point this is one of the
first times I`ve been truly proud of my country. I am paraphrasing, and
was excoriated for that comment.
And yet here you have someone on the Republican side of the aisle who
is saying over and over and over again, the rest of the world hates us,
America is in the dumps.
CHAIT: That`s right. Although I think the difference is that Obama
has an idea that America is better than it used to be, that America is
flawed and America used to be more flawed and things are getting better.
But that`s offensive to some elements of the right who see it as a
repudiation of American history, to be so forthright about the flaws in our
Whereas Trump has the conservative idea that, yes, we`re terrible, but
used to be great. So, he really loves America because he doesn`t love
America now, but he loves America in some past time, the 1950s maybe.
So, to them that shows he actually does love America, just not what
Obama has done to it. But, your point about hypocrisy is spot on.
WAGNER: Well, and to that end, Josh, I mean, the evangelical support
for Trump, Trump who has said he never seeks forgiveness from god is
winning the born-again Christian vote. Just explain that to me if you can.
GREEN: I think it goes back to Trump`s affect, as John said.
And I think also to give Trump some credit here, and to speak to that
kind of angry woman in the focus group who didn`t like the idea of being
condescended to. Trump does speak some real truths about politics. He
calls the other Republicans puppets for going and prostrating themselves
before the Koch brothers. I think that`s something that extends to
Democrats and to candidates like Hillary Clinton
as well who are out there grubbing for money and doing all sorts of things
that ordinary Americans find offensive and think are wrong.
I mean, Trump is articulating something that has a broader appeal. I
think that Trump, if you`ll pardon the phrase, what a lot of voters claim
to be their big issues like evangelicals, born again Christians, the one
thing they can agree on is that Trump is speaking for them, at least right
WAGNER: Well, and I think they can agree there`s a pronounced
distaste for the Democratic Party. And I do think, Jonathan, if there`s a
chink in the Trump armor, it may be his past support for people like
Hillary Clinton, the fact that he`s donated to Democrats.
Today, on Bloomberg, Trump said that he was a fan of Paul Volcker and
the Volcker rule. I mean, those are progressive -- that`s progressive
economic policy. And I feel like, you know, maybe that`s an area where a
fellow Republicans can try
and find a way in?
CHAIT: Well, there are a lot of chinks in Trump`s armor. And I think
will go down eventually. But every day he does something more to deviate
from Republican Party doctrine than Scott Walker has done in his entire
life put together. So, you -- they`re sitting there with their head in
their hands saying what wrong with this party that they can`t see these
problems with this man.
I think they`ll find a way to beat him or I think he`ll find a way to
But look, none of us thought he would be at this point in the first
place. So, we have to be a little more humble about our confident
predictions that he`s going to be destroyed, because no one expected Trump
to be in this position today.
WAGNER: Yeah, and I know Josh, you were shaking your head when I was
talked about Volcker being progressive economics. We won`t get into that
as a senior Trump correspondent, I know you`re focused more on Trump than
But, yeah, I mean, to Jonathan`s point, Trump has trumped the media on
all this. The pontificators and even members of his own party, nobody
knows where we go from here.
GREEN: He has. But I do think that that may start to change on
Thursday night when voters see him in the context, not as truth telling
celebrity reality guy but as standard bearer for the Republican Party. I
think if they mentally begin to associate Donald Trump as a Republican
presidential candidate, that`s probably bad for the Republican Party,
because he`s calling Mexican`s rapists.
But I think it`s also bad for Trump in the sense that people will
begin to think, OK, well, we`re going to hold him up to the same kind of
scrutiny that we hold other candidates to. And that`s a hurdle I think
Trump might have a difficult time clearing.
WAGNER: The unthinkable, unsinkable Donald Trump.
Jonathan Chait, Josh Green, thanks for joining me guys.
CHAIT: Thank you, Alex.
WAGNER: Up next, Chris Christie gets candid at a campaign stop, maybe
a little too candid. Stay with us.
WAGNER: Here is how presidential hopeful governor Chris Christie
advocated compromise to a room full of diners in New Hampshire this
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: I`m a Catholic, but I`ve used
birth control, and not just the rhythm method, okay?
So, you know, my church has a teaching against birth control. Does
that make me an awful Catholic?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: And if you`re wondering how the fine folks at Blake`s
Restaurant and Creamery felt hearing that at 9:30 this morning, take a look
at this guy`s reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: I`m a Catholic. But I`ve used birth control, and not just
the rhythm method, okay?
So, you know, my church has a teaching against birth control. Does
that make me an awful Catholic?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGNER: We`ll be right back.
WAGNER: It was 90 degrees in New York City today and like most days
this summer, I was freezing at work. I am not the only woman who tends to
temperatures just on this side of arctic.
And finally, I know why that is. A new study lays out the case that
most office temperatures are based on an outdated model designed to
bodies of men, men from the 1960s, men who may have looked like this.
To help fix this problem, the study suggests that office buildings,
quote, reduce gender discriminating bias in thermal comfort. Or, in other
words, come up with another formula that doesn`t force ladies to wear leg
warmers in August.
Here is NBC`s Jenna Wolfe with more.
JENNA WOLFE, NBC CORREPSONDENT: You need long sleeves, a blanket and
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Just in case.
UNIDENITFIED FEMALE: It can be 100 degrees outside and it feels like
the north pole in here.
WOLFE: This stays at your desk all through out the summer.
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes there`s some shivering going on.
WOLFE: It turns out that an old formula may be to blame for the
tussle over office temperatures. A new study from the nature climate
change journal says the
temperatures in many office buildings are determined by an outdated and
inaccurate model developed in the 1960s and based on the resting metabolic
rate of a 154-pound 40-year-old man.
Fast forward more than a half a century, half of the workforce is
female. But those thermostats haven`t budged.
The study does confirm that the great air conditioning debate isn`t
just in your head finding that in general females prefer a higher room
males in home and office situations. That`s a balmy 77 degrees for a
woman, compared to a cool 71.6 for men.
DR. DEVI NAMIAPARAMPIL, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Women tend to have
basil metabolic rates so they burn off energy a lot slower. They actually
give off less heat than men so they tend to be colder.
WOLFE: Another slightly less scientific factor?
NAMIAPARAMPIL: Women tend to wear skirts, so maybe they have their
and cold, their arms might be out. Men tend to wear more layers. They
tend to wear jackets or suits. If you add all these things together, then
it`s much more likely that that difference between men and women is going
to be more pronounced.
WOLFE: It`s a battle of the sexes that isn`t likely to end any time
WAGNER: That was Jenna Wolfe reporting. We`ll talk more about the
thermostat gender divide. And why setting temperatures at warmer levels is
better for all of us coming up next.
HAYES: Joining me now is Mike Pesca, host of Slate`s daily podcast,
All right, Mike, so we`re talking about gender biases in office
temperature. I have a blanket over my legs right now. This dress is made
of scuba diving material and I`m still cold. Do you think there is a
defense for freezing office temperatures.
MIKE PESCA, THE GIST: I thought that blanket was a tribute to Mr.
Potter and It`s a Wonderful Life. I have no idea.
Yeah, of course there is a defense, which is if someone is cold, they
bundle up, if someone is hot, they`re going to be sweating over your desk.
HAYES: Well, but OK, this is Jonathan Chait makes the point that the
gender that gets colder is able to wear less in the summer while the gender
that generally gets warmer is expected to wear the same business attire
You can take off the jacket.
HAYES: And I`m just saying, the compensation that women need to make
on this point is pretty extreme versus what men would have to do to just
get a little bit more comfortable.
Women are dressed like burritos, quite literally swathing themselves
tightly in woven blankets, leg warmers and the like.
PESCA: It`s like the Shackelton exhibition has washed up in the shore
of the offices of America. The Snuggies are in full force.
PESCA: However, the study that it`s based on is ridiculous because
based on the fact that in 1960 it was a man`s body. But we have all gotten
fatter since 1960, the average weight of an American male is 196, and the
average weight of American female...
WAGNER: You are making the BMI argument.
PESCA: Yeah, it doesn`t matter if it was based in whatever it was
going on in 1960. We`re all a little sweatier now.
Point two, do you think they`re really -- do you really think that
they set the thermostat because of a study in 1960?
WAGNER: I think there`s absolutely metrics that go around thinking
this is the comfortable temperature for a workplace environment.
I would say, I`m not a scientist, though I play one on television, and
feel like it`s not just BMI, metabolic rate, there are various sort of like
scientific metrics in the human body that determine one`s metabolism and
also what temperature at which one is most comfortable.
So, I can`t argue with you on the increasing obesity of the American
workforce. I can argue that in 1950 women made up 29.6 of the American
workforce. In 2014, 46.9 percent.
Given the fact that they`re having the workforce, setting aside
metabolism, shouldn`t their happiness and comfort be taken more into
PESCA: I would nudge that thermostat up half a degree. And I think I
could sell it to all of the sexist men who want coldness by saying, don`t
you just want a little less complaining..
WAGNER: Well, OK, there`s that.
There`s also the benefits to the environment in an age when we`re
trying to be a little bit more...
PESCA: That is overstated.
WAGNER: You don`t think we should each do our own little part?
PESCA: Air conditioning doesn`t really -- heating is actually worse.
So, the other side of this story is that if women like it a little hotter
that means in the winter it should be a little hotter also.
WAGNER: Maybe we can compromise, Pesca.
PESCA: But heating in the winter causes much more environmental
impact than cooling...
WAGNER: Maybe we women can have it a little cooler in the winter and
a little warmer in the summer and we can meet in middle grounds.
PESCA: We can meet over a gas fire and sing do wop songs like in
WAGNER: I will bring in a jacket my friends.
Mike Pesca in a jacket -- yeah, exactly, I have leg warmers on at this
moment. I don`t really, but it`s good for the conversation.
Mike Pesca, always good to see you. Thank you for joining me in
reaching this beautiful compromise.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts now.
Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 NBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>