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All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, August 7th, 2015

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Date: August 7, 2015
Guest: Paula Johnson, McKay Coppins, Tara Dowdell, Dave Weigel, Ezra
Klein, Nina Turner, Josh Zepps, Charles Pierce


THOMAS ROBERTS, MSNBC GUEST HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t, frankly, have time for
total political correctness.

ROBERTS: Record ratings for the Republican debate and Donald Trump was at
the center of it all.

TRUMP: I just wanted to be treated well and with respect.

ROBERTS: But was the treatment of Donald Trump fair and balanced?

TRUMP: I don`t think it`s very professional. I mean, I walked out of that
room and people were saying that was really unfair.

ROBERTS: Tonight, the fallout for the Republican front-runner, including
the New Hampshire group Women for Trump sticking by their man. Ezra Klein
on Donald Trump`s Honey Badger performance and "Esquire`s" Charlie Pierce
with the progressive view of the debate.

And it`s the end of an era.

JON STEWART, DAILY SHOW: Welcome to "The Daily Show". My name is Jon

ROBERTS: Tonight, we`ll look back at Jon Stewart`s last "Daily Show."

STEWART: Hey, Trevor.

TREVOR NOAH: What`s happening?

STEWART: Could you give me like 20 more minutes?

NOAH: Oh, I`m so sorry.

ROBERTS: ALL IN starts right now.


ROBERTS: Hi, everybody. Good evening from New York. I`m Thomas Robertson
for Chris Hayes.

And all eyes were on Donald Trump on FOX News last night. The first debate
of the 2016 cycle, and now, the most watched primary debate in history.
Trump took center stage, the prime spot reserved for the front-runner. And
from the very first question, he set himself apart from the other nine


BRET BAIER, DEBATE MODERATOR: Is there anyone on stage, and can I see
hands, who is unwilling tonight to pledge your support to the eventual
nominee of the Republican Party and pledge to not run an independent
campaign against that person?

Mr. Trump?

TRUMP: I can totally make that pledge if I`m the nominee. I will pledge.
I will not run as an independent. But -- and I am discussing it with
everybody. But I`m talking about a lot of leverage. We want to win. And
we will win.


ROBERTS: So, Trump continued to make waves throughout the debate, starting
with his response to a question from Megyn Kelly about some of the language
that he has used to describe women.


MEGYN KELLY, DEBATE MODERATOR: You call women you don`t like fat pigs,
dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account --

TRUMP: Only Rosie O`Donnell.

KELLY: Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should
elect as president, and how will you answer the charge from Hillary Clinton
who is likely to be the Democratic nominee that you are part of the war on

TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically
correct. Oftentimes it`s fun, it`s kidding, we have a good time. What I
say is what I say.


ROBERTS: And Trump also found himself forced to defend his support for
liberal politicians and policies.


BAIER: Fifteen years ago you called yourself a liberal on health care.
You were for a single-payer system, a Canadian-style system. Why were you
for that then, and why aren`t you for it now?

TRUMP: It works in Canada, it works incredibly well in Scotland. It could
have worked in a different age, which is the age you`re talking about here.
What I`d like to see is a private system without the artificial lines
around every state.

KELLY: In 1999, you said you were, quote, "very pro-choice", even
supporting partial birth abortion. You favored an assault weapons ban as
well. In most cases you identified as a Democrat. When did you actually
become a Republican?

TRUMP: I`ve evolved on many issues over the years. You know who else has?
Ronald Reagan.

What happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and
it was going to be aborted, and it wasn`t aborted, and that child today is
a total superstar, a great, great child. I am very, very proud to say that
I am pro-life.


ROBERTS: In a focus group on FOX, after the debate, some participants told
Republican pollster Frank Luntz they were less than impressed by Trump`s


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I liked him when I came in here, because he wasn`t the
politician. But right now, he skirted around questions better than a life-
long politician ever has.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was mean. He was angry. He had no specifics. He
was bombastic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he runs as an independent, he`s going to be
basically handing the election to Hillary Clinton.


ROBERTS: But for his part, Trump gave marks to the moderators with FOX


JOE SCARBOROUGH, MORNING JOE: Do you think the FOX moderators fair to you
last night?

TRUMP: No, I don`t think so. I`m not sure that FOX is fair necessarily,
but, you know, I`ve been set up before, and I think I handled it well.


ROBERTS: And then get this -- Trump also took to Twitter to vent his
frustrations with the network, tweeting, among other things, that, quote,
"Frank Luntz is a low-class slob who came to my office looking for
consulting work, which I had no interest. Now, he picks anti-Trump

And, "Wow, Megyn Kelly really bombed tonight. People are going live on
Twitter. Funny to watch."

Trump also retweeted a post from a supporter, referring to Kelly as a

I`m joined now by Paula Johnson, a former New Hampshire state rep and a
current member of the state`s Women for Trump coalition.

Paula, it`s good to have you with me.

And after the performance we witnessed last night from Donald Trump, how do
you feel about supporting him and the title of the group you represent
Women for Trump?

me on tonight. I am still a big supporter of Donald Trump. I think he did
a great job last night, given what they handed him.

I think that FOX News was a little bit unfair to him last night.


JOHNSON: And so, I still have great support for him.

ROBERTS: So, you think that they were unfair -- you think this is not the
treatment of front-runner should receive?

JOHNSON: Well, I think if you`re going to be fair, do it to everybody. I
think their questioning was out of line last night. I think everybody
should be asked the same question. It`s about where we`re taking this
country and where we`re taking this economy. I think some of the questions
were out of line last night.

ROBERTS: But not all of the candidates have misogynistic remarks in their
past, as Megyn Kelly alluded to, and tried to craft together in that
question. So, how would you defend the type of language Donald Trump has
used in the past, and also defend how he answered himself to Megyn Kelly?

JOHNSON: Well, I don`t know Mr. Trump personally. I`ve seen him on the
news. I`ve seen him on TV. I was a big fan of "The Apprentice." And I
always thought in "The Apprentice", he was very professional.

And I just think that the questioning was the wrong question last night.
And I think they baited him last night. FOX News.

I mean, let`s take a look at this. He`s a businessman. I don`t think that
there`s -- he has any problem with women. There`s a lot of women that are
supporting him.

I`m supporting him. I`m a former state representative. I`m a former
alderman and board of education members in Nashau.

And I have the highest respect for Mr. Trump.

ROBERTS: Do you think --

JOHNSON: But I think her question was out of line last night.

ROBERTS: Do you think, though, that the questioning being out of line then
in and of itself deserves the type of language of being called a bimbo? Do
you think Donald Trump should support someone and retweet them calling
Megyn Kelly a bimbo?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, there`s this name-calling in this country with
everybody now. You know, we all have to be politically correct in this
country. And if we`re not politically correct, we`re looked down upon, you

Maybe her questioning shouldn`t have been like that. She -- FOX went on
the attack with him last night with nobody else, but him, on the attack
last night. And I am a big supporter of FOX News. I watch "FOX & friends"
in the morning.

But after that, I don`t want to watch Megyn Kelly anymore. I mean, I`m
getting disgusted. As a matter of fact, I`m getting disgusted with all the
news media because of the way they treat people out there. If you`re not
politically correct, if you`re not politically correct, just shunned upon.

And enough is enough. We have more important things in this country than
acting politically correct. We have a big deficit and I think this man is
the only one who`s going to be able to bring this country back to where it
needs to be. He`s a businessman. He knows how to run a business and he`s
not a politician like what we saw on the stage last night.

ROBERTS: Paula, I have about ten seconds left. Yes or no, if he runs as
an independent, will you still support him?

JOHNSON: I`ll support Mr. Trump, I definitely will. I think he`s what
this country finally needs to run this country.

ROBERTS: Paula Johnson, Women for Trump, thank you so much for joining me.
I appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Thank you for having me on.

ROBERTS: Absolutely.

Joining me right now is McKay Coppins, senior political writer for
"BuzzFeed News", NBC News correspondent Katy Tur, and political consultant
Tara Dowdell, who was once a contestant on "The Apprentice."

So, gang, it is great to have you all with me. And as we talk about the
debate last night which gathered together 24 million people around the
tube, this was appointment television last night for this debate.

Katy, let me start with you, though. The reaction people are having from
Megyn Kelly questioning Trump on misogynistic statements, misogynistic
behavior, you sat down with him for a very long interview, and he was terse
to you in a way that seemed demeaning at one point.

Do you think that Megyn Kelly got the Katy Tur treatment?

KATY TUR, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that everybody gets that
treatment. I think he certainly treats anyone who challenges him in a
certain way, he doesn`t like to be challenged, he likes to hit back.

I think that he`s been accused, certainly my interview, of being
unnecessarily tough on women, or condescending, misogynistic, if you will.
But I do think he`s tough on everybody.

That he speaks -- look at the headlines right now, they`re very mixed.
Some are saying Trump ran away with this, that he owned this debate.
Others are saying that he`s going to feel the consequences for these women

But unfortunately or fortunately for him, depending how you`re looking at
it, people who support him already and like his rhetoric and like what he
has to say, will support what he`s doing now. They enjoy he`s a straight
shooter. They enjoy that he`s not politically correct. They enjoy that
he`s not a politician like the politicians they`ve been seeing their whole

They think politicians are double talking to them. They believe that even
if he says something that`s out of line in some ways, that he is still
speaking the truth and he`s speaking to them.

Now, if you don`t support him, then you think what he said is disgusting.
And you think it`s inexcusable. So, I think it just hardened his core of
support. If you like him, you still like him. If you don`t like him, you
don`t like him even more.


And, meanwhile -- and, McKay, we see --we saw that from the interview with
Paula Johnson a couple of moments ago, talking about how now she is
disgusted with Megyn Kelly, feels that this was a total setup. A lot of
people would say this is the craziest thing you could do is take on FOX
News and Megyn Kelly who is their revered primetime host.

Is Donald Trump making a mistake?

MCKAY COPPINS, BUZZFEED NEWS: Yes, I think that a lot of people have been
saying all through this campaign every time Donald Trump does something
wacky or ridiculous, that this is the beginning of the end for Donald
Trump`s campaign. I don`t know if there will be any one moment like that,
but certainly, the case could be made that last night was the beginning of
the end of the Trump bubble, because it was clear on both sides, from FOX
News and from Trump, that there`s no love lost anymore between those two
entities. And that`s important.

FOX News, as much as the right, and as much as conservatives love Donald
Trump, they have loved FOX News longer. And not just with Megyn Kelly, all
these personalities, all these broadcasters on FOX are very influential
opinion makers on the right to the Republican primary voters. And if he`s
going to continue to feud with them, I don`t see that helping him maintain
the support that he needs to succeed.

ROBERTS: Well, everything is only emboldened him. And there seems to be a
common thread here. It begins with M. So, we got Mexico, McCain and now


ROBERTS: Which is nothing but giving him the attention that he craves in
this campaign.

Tara, one thing that last night was brought up, and we saw with Paula`s
reaction that she thought things were very personal against Donald Trump.

But take a listen to how Chris Wallace took him to task for the type of
business person he is. Take a listen to this.


CHRIS WALLACE, DEBATE MODERATOR: Let`s talk about the latest example which
is Trump Entertainment Resorts which went bankrupt in 2009. In that case
alone, lenders, to your company, lost over $1 billion, and more than 1,100
people were laid off.

TRUMP: Well, I --

WALLACE: Is that the way that you`d run the country?

TRUMP: Let me just tell you about the lenders. First of all, these
lenders aren`t babies. These are total babies. They`re not the nice sweet
little people you think, OK?

Seven years ago, I left Atlantic City before it totally cratered. And I
made a lot of money in Atlantic and I`m very proud of it.


ROBERTS: All right. So, he is touting his business experience. You were
inspired by his business experience. And you competed on "The Apprentice."

How do you think it gels to see him questioned about bankruptcies? He says
on paper he`s worth $10 billion. Does that gel his answers about
bankruptcies? Is that fair game?

that were asked of him last night were fair game, because he`s running on
these very topics. He`s running as a successful business person.

So, it is fair game to question him on those bankruptcies which we all know
exists. He`s running as a guy who`s made $10 billion, despite the fact all
the data and reports and studies that have been done saying it`s more like
$2 billion or $3 billion. So, I think for him to be questioned on that is
totally fair.

I would also, when I did participate in the show is when he was a Democrat.

But no, but I think that all the questions were fair game. I think what`s
particularly stunning here is this is one of the areas where he`s most
thin-skinned. But notice the difference in how he conducted himself with
Chris Wallace in response to that question versus Megyn Kelly. There was
much more ire directed at Megyn Kelly when she challenged him versus when
the male anchors challenged him.

ROBERTS: So, your perception is he went to task. Katy said he gives as
good as he gets against everybody.

TUR: I think he`s tough on everybody. I think he will hit anyone. He`s
called Rick Perry dumb and he`s only trying to look smart with his glasses.
He said a lot of negative things about a lot of people.


ROBERTS: -- of the nicer things exactly.

TUR: Yes, well, I`m not going to use total language. But I do think it
resonates more, because he is -- it is -- he`s being perceived as somebody
who doesn`t -- isn`t a fan of women. He said these negative comments about
women. He`s retweeted the bimbo tweet. So, I do think it definitely hit

DOWDELL: I think Megyn Kelly is unquestionably sharp, whether you agree or
disagree with her, she`s sharp. And he attacked her as being not sharp.

ROBERTS: And we also know how much he loves McKay Coppins.

McKay, thank you so much.

Katy Tur, great to see you.

Tara Dowdell, thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

Still ahead, we`re going to have much more analysis of last night`s debate.
Plus, a look at Jon Stewart`s final night on "The Daily Show."


BASSEM YOUSEF: Jon, I knew that they would eventually get you. Who shut
you down? The White House? The secret police? Thanks, Obama.

STEWART: No, no one is shutting the show down, Bassem. I`m leaving
because I want to.

YOUSEF: Whoa! That`s it?





ROBERTS: There was an 18th Republican showcase on the debate stage last




PAUL: Reagan did negotiate with the Soviets.

Reagan if I can find a Tip O`Neill.


RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was a child of Ronald Reagan.

TRUMP: Ronald Reagan.





ROBERTS: After that last mention by Rick Perry, the internet exploded with
"Ronald Raven" memes with the former president superimposed on birds, on a
picture of former Baltimore Raven player, Ray Lewis, and replacing Raven
Simone ,in "Not So Raven."

For the record, Rick Perry`s campaign is denying that he accidently said
"Ronald Raven". His spokesperson telling ABC News that he, quote, "clearly
said Ronald Reagan."

We`ll be right back.


THOMAS: Donald Trump was not the only person responsible for fireworks in
the debate last night. Perhaps the most aggressive candidate on the stage
was Rand Paul who mixed it up with both Trump and Chris Christie, including
one particularly testy exchange with Christie over U.S. surveillance


PAUL: I want to collect more records from terrorists, but less records
from innocent Americans.

ridiculous answer. I want to collect more records from terrorists, but
less records from other people. How are you supposed to know, Megyn? How
are you supposed to --


PAUL: Use the Fourth Amendment. Use the Fourth Amendment. Get a warrant.


CHRISTIE: Let me tell you something --

PAUL: Get a judge to sign a warrant.

You fundamentally misunderstand the Bill of Rights. Every time you did a
case, you got a warrant from a judge. I`m talking about searches without
warrants, indiscriminately of all Americans` records. That`s what I fought
to end.

I don`t trust President Obama with our records. I know you gave him a big
hug, and if you want to give him a big hug again, you go right ahead.

CHRISTIE: Senator Paul, you know, the hugs I remember are the hugs that I
gave to the families who lost their people on September 11th. Those are
the hugs I remember.


ROBERTS: So, joining me now is Dave Weigel, national political
correspondent for "The Washington Post".

And, Dave, what do you make of the back-and-forth that we witnessed last
night? It was pretty intense. Today, we have this follow-up with Rand
Paul tweeting that Christie will fear-monger and violate your
constitutional rights for no reason.

Do you think that they have this engagement now where they can kind of
tease each other along to get higher in the polls?

DAVE WEIGEL, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it gave me deja vu because in
2007, Ron Paul, Rand Paul`s father, was running for president actually in a
much weaker position, I think polling around 1 percent, 2 percent, raising
almost no money, and got into a tete-a-tete with Rudy Giuliani in a debate.
And as I recall, the pundit reaction was that Rudy Giuliani calling out
Rand Paul`s explanation of why 9/11 happened was judged the winner of that

This is very similar. I think most of the commentaries say Chris Christie
got the better of Rand. Keep in mind, Rand was trying to appeal to not 100
percent of Republicans, but maybe 25 percent, 20 percent of libertarians-
minded Republicans --


WEIGEL: -- who feel intensely about this and needed to see Rand Paul fight
about it.

ROBERTS: So, we saw Rand Paul fight about that, and he also went after
Trump, which he had promised that he might do. And it`s totally normal to
see candidates attack the front-runner. You`d expect that. But we really
didn`t see most of the other candidates, Dave, going after Donald Trump.
Why do you think that is?

WEIGEL: Well, Rand Paul is in a position to build back some of his support
after losing it over the last month. Some of that was the fault of member
of his -- I`m sorry, not his super PAC, the super PAC referred by Rand
Paul. Some of that I think was just attrition because of Trump`s role in
the news cycle.

Donald Trump has been vacuuming all voters who want to cast an outsider
vote, an anti-Washington vote. That was Rand Paul`s vote he hoped. That
was Ted Cruz`s vote he hoped. So, I think he most aggressively went after

I think he also realized going in that he was not going to get a ton of
debate time. I don`t know how he intuitively knew this, because FOX News
has interviewed him quite a lot, but he made this strategic decision to
start fights with Donald Trump because that was how he was going to get
into the debate.

And he saw in being aggressive, no down side. Even if everybody looking at
the debate thought he did poorly, that is how he wanted to enter it.

ROBERTS: Well, and meanwhile, doing the calculations of the time of what
everybody got, Trump got the most in terms of speaking, Rand Paul got the

But speaking of who got the least amount of time to actually speak, let`s
talk about the happy hour debate, because these are the seven people
relegated to the 5:00 p.m. hour. They pulled outside of the 10.

But, Dave, a lot of people are talking about the performance, the gravitas
that Carly Fiorina demonstrated. Do you agree with that? Or do you think
that`s some type of setup from other forces at work over at FOX News?

WEIGEL: I wouldn`t say at FOX News. I think one thing that distinguishes
Carly Fiorina`s campaign from everyone else in the undercard, I like happy
hour debate. That`s actually the most pleasant way of putting this so far.

She has a very good, aggressive, press-savvy campaign team. They sort of
tilled the soil for Carly to win this debate. I think they, more than any
other campaign, had no resentment about being in it, and saw it was a place
where they would shine.

So, Carly Fiorina I think for really four months has benefited from
coverage of her as a phenom, not really as a candidate. It`s easy to
imagine all the attack points you could make if she surge into even fifth
place. For example, she had a zinger about Donald Trump that I think
everyone focused on as perfect in what you should say. Donald Trump
getting a phone call from Bill Clinton.

If she was in the higher tier, people might have pointed out that she
actually spoke at a Clinton initiative event. She did not always have this
visceral reaction to everything Hillary Clinton. There are ways she could
be challenged if she actually was in a position to be challenged.

ROBERTS: We shall see if the work she did yesterday actually catapults her
to the main stage coming up next month when the next Republican debate

Dave Weigel -- Dave, great to see you. Thank you.

WEIGEL: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Still to come, how the Democrats are responding to last night`s
debate action.


ROBERTS: Tonight, a Colorado court reached a decision on whether mass
murderer James Holmes will receive the death penalty or life in prison.
Holmes killed 12 people and injured 70 in an Aurora movie theater in July
of 2012. The jury already found him guilty of first-degree murder, and a
little more than an hour ago, a sentence was announced after the jury
stated it could not unanimously agree to life in prison or the death


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, the jury, do not have a unanimous sentencing --
final sentencing verdict on this count. And we, the jury, understand that
as a result, the court will impose a sentence of life imprisonment without
the possibility of parole on this count.


ROBERTS: Joining me now from outside the courthouse, is NBC News
correspondent Scott Cohn. And Scott, how much of a surprise was s this
that the jury could not come to a unanimous verdict?

SCOTT COHN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Thomas, one thing that
we`ve learned over the several weeks is that Colorado law sets a very bar
high for the death penalty, and it only took one juror to dissent, which
apparently happened at least one. No unanimous verdict means an automatic
life sentence in prison.

Members of the courtroom were visibly upset, many of them crying. As you
saw at the defense table,Tamara Brady, the lead defense attorney, bracing
herself, and the defense team also in tears.

Among those who were in the courtroom, the grandparents of the youngest
victim, Veronica Moser Sullivan (ph), who was just 6 years old.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve tried to resolve Veronica`s death, and I can`t.
You know, there`s just something with that, the loss that -- like I said,
it was the gaping wound, okay? That`s not going to go away. This just
makes it worse.


COHN: George Brockler, the Arapahoe County district attorney, began a news
conference a short time ago, reading off each of the names. His voice
breaking when it came to Veronica Moser Sullivan. He said nothing that
happens today affects what happens to them, the victims.

And Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, who is an opponent of the death
penalty out a short time ago with a statement saying that our thoughts
remain with the victims and families. No verdict can bring back what they
have lost but we hope they begin to find peace and healing in the coming
weeks. Thomas, that is going to be a tough time coming.

ROBERTS: Scott Cohn reporting there in Colorado for us. Scott, thank you.

We`ll be right back after this.


ROBERTS: You know, although last night`s primetime debate was meant to be
about the Republican presidential field, there was one Democrat who just
kept popping up.


candidate, which I doubt, that would be a dream come true.

SCOTT WALKER, GOVERNOR OF WISCONSIN: We should be talking about Hillary
Clinton on that last subject, because everywhere in the world that Hillary
Clinton touched is more messed up today than before...

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: I think god has blessed us. He has blessed
the Republican Party with some very good candidates, the Democrats can`t
even find one.


ROBERTS: Well, the Clinton campaign is still responding to the GOP debate
with a steady stream of tweets, including this gif pointing out the number
of times Republicans mentioned the minimum wage, equal pay, voting rights,
Citizens United or child care during the primetime debate. As you see on
the left, the number was zero.

Joining me now, writer at large for Esquire magazine Charles Pierce, and
former Ohio state senator, Nina Turner.

Nice to see both of you.

Senator, let me start with you. Did Hillary Clinton, if you were working
for her, and you were watching with her team, do you think that she saw
anything in the debate last night that would give her pause for concern?
Or instead, is this just
watching 17 people slug it out?

NINA TURNER, FRM. OHIO STATE SENTAOR: Well, for the most part, no, with
the exception of maybe one candidate, and that`s the governor of the state
of Ohio.

But I will tell you, Senator Rubio gave the secretary a rousing endorsement
when he said if this was based on resume, she is indeed the most qualified
candidate. So that is about the only thing that Senator Rubio got right
last night.

ROBERTS: So, one thing we do know is that former Governor Mike Huckabee
tried to use Reagan-esque humor to go after Hillary Clinton. It was a
surprise to some. Take a listen.


election has been a whole lot about a person who`s very high in the polls,
but doesn`t have a clue about how to govern, a person who has been filled
with scandals, and could not lead, and of course, I`m talking about Hillary


ROBERTS: So Charles, that was a big laugh line that the governor was able
to get. Do you think that`s the type of approach that might work best for
Republican candidates than saying angrier attack against the former

CHARLES PIERCE, ESQUIRE: I`m not sure it will work against Former
Secretary Clinton. I`m very sure it`s not going to work for Mike Huckabee,
because he`s not going to be around in the fall. But what struck me about
the debate, and you touched on it a little bit with the series of tweets
you mentioned, is that it looked like it was taking place in an alternate
universe with an alternate universe of issues.

Climate change, to name one, that the Clintons didn`t mention, didn`t come
up at all except in one question in the happy hour debate where Lindsey
Graham was asked if his fairly reasonable assessment of the scientific
evidence would hurt
him on the electorate.

I`m fully of the mind that we`re going to have an election this fall with
two candidates talking past each other because they have such radically
ideas about what`s important to the country.

ROBERTS: Well, yeah, and the deeper policy issue portion of both debates
was really absent. And Nina, let me ask you, because you talked about the
governor of
your state, John Kasich, and he emerged as a star last night, being able to
talk and get people`s attention in a very crowded field, but one thing that
he talked about specifically was Ohio`s expansion of Medicaid. Take a


KASICH: You should know that President Reagan expanded Medicaid three or
four times.

Secondly, I had an opportunity to bring resources back to Ohio, to do
what? To treat the mentally ill. 10,000 of them sit in our prisons.

And finally, the working poor, instead of having them come into the
emergency rooms, where it costs more, where they`re sicker and we end up
paying, we brought a
program in here to make sure that people could get on their feet.


ROBERTS: From what you know as an Ohio politician, do you think that that
is sincere? And how do you think that is going to resonate with

TURNER: I do, Thomas. I was in the legislature at the time that the
governor did that. And while the governor and I don`t agree on most fiscal
policies, we don`t agree in the space of voting, by the way, which none of
candidates mentioned the 50-year anniversary of the voting rights, I do
believe that Democrats would be wise not to take Governor John Kasich for

He is the governor of the most important swing state in the nation, and we
all know the data point that no Republican has ever won the White House
winning the great state of Ohio. The governor will be a force to be
reckoned with.

And I do believe that he is sincere. The governor and I do have a
relationship even though we battle it out from time to time.

But that Medicaid expansion is important for the poor. But we`ve got to
remember, though, for the Republicans as a group -- you know, in Ohio, they
have a campaign that they`ve launched call committed to community. And I
don`t understand how you can be committed to community when you have such a
disdain as a
party for women.

I mean, Thomas, no one stood up and defended women on that stage. And to
treat women as if we`re only carriers, we`re only vessels and not to have
empathy and love because you`re on this witch hunt against Planned
Parenthood that provides services for poor women, you cannot tell me that
you are committed to community when you won`t talk about equal pay. You
can`t tell me that you`re committed to community -- it`s mine -- I read an
article that said that they were going to try to pass a resolution that was
anti-gay. So, you cannot say you`re committed to everybody in the
community when you don`t have empathy and love and compassion for folks.

So most of the rhetoric of the GOP as a group is more of the same. And it
really follows a line of, they really don`t care about people by and large.
And they have policy positions that have shown that throughout the great --
throughout this nation.

But Thomas, that Voting Rights Act was vitally important and they didn`t
say a mumbling word about it. You`ve got people running for office who
don`t even want to give people access to the ballot box which is the
greatest equalizer.

ROBERTS: All right, so there was a real broad brush stroke there about the
Republican Party, Nina. So, we want to be more specific, though, about the
conversation, where it can go.

Because we all know after the RNC had the autopsy from 2012, they were
looking to expand the tent to look at their weaknesses, their
vulnerabilities and try to fix that.

So Charles, based on Nina`s point, do you think in the Republican Party for
a real and deeper discussion about poverty and fair wages, middle class
workers, that if they do strike the right cord, that that could that cut
into the Democrats`
edge on those issue?

PIERCE: Well, I don`t need to paint with a broad brush, but the Republican
Party in its current form is completely demented. So, my answer to you is

I mean, while they were doing their autopsy, their base was running wild,
returned against all possible odds, a worse congress than the one that was
elected in 2010.

No. I mean, I think there are two election cycles away from a genuine
autopsy, a genuine assessment of what`s really gone wrong with them.

And you saw it last night. The idea of giving zygote Americans 5th and
14th amendment rights is just nuts. The idea of putting up -- which Ben
Carson proposed -- putting up a flat tax based on biblical tithing is just

The party tolerates too much of this. And now it`s run away with the
party`s entire function to the point where it`s got a lot more troubles out
there right now
than Donald Trump.

ROBERTS: Charles Pierce and Nina Turner, nice to see you both. Have a
great weekend. Thank you.

TURNER: You, too.

PIERCE: Thanks, Thomas.

ROBERTS: Still ahead, Donald Trump`s comments on buying favors from

Plus, more from Jon Stewart`s star-studded farewell.


STEWART: You know, I`ve got to say, this is, for me, it`s very touching
that you would come back after 12 years and do this.

STEVE CARELL, ACTOR: I never left, Jon. Becoming an international
superstar was just something I did while waiting for my next assignment.



ROBERTS: There were many common themes running through the Republican
debates last night, including this one.


KASICH: Well, let`s start off with my father being a mailman, so I
understand the concerns of all the folks across this country.

RUBIO: My father was bartender.

CRUZ: My father fled Cuba.

SANTORUM: My father was born in Italy.

CRUZ: My father left my mother.

BUSH: I`m proud of my dad.

CHRISTIE: My dad came home from serving in the army after having lost his
father, worked in the Breyers ice cream plant in Newark, New Jersey..

KASICH: My father was a mailman, his father was a coal miner.


ROBERTS: And the Republican 2016 hopefuls weren`t the only ones who brought
up their fathers during a much-watched and much-anticipated cable show last


STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN: Personally, I do not know how this son of a
poor Appalachian turd miner -- I do not know -- I do not know what I would
do if you hadn`t brought me on this show. I`d be back in those hills
mining turds with papi. Jon, you know by now I`d have -- I`d have dung
lung, OK.


ROBERTS: Truly the end of an era. And much more from the last ever Daily
Show with Jon Stewart ahead. Stay with us.


ROBERTS: You know, one of the most candid moments during the debate last
night happened when Donald Trump was asked about his donations to
Democratic politicians.


TRUMP: I will tell you that our system is broken. I gave to many people -
- before this, before two months ago, I was a businessman. I give to
everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what? When I need
something from them, two years later, three years later, i call them, they
are there for me. And that`s a broken system.

BAIER: So, what did you get from Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi?

TRUMP: Well, I`ll tell you what, with Hillary Clinton, I said be at my
wedding and she came to my wedding. You know why? She had no choice
because I


ROBERTS: Trump, the only GOP candidate with a self-financed campaign, has
donated over $1 million to dozens of politicians over the past three

Now, the other nine politicians on the primetime stage last night are for
the most part on the other side of that equation, soliciting money from
donors like a Trump for their campaign.

So does that make them vulnerable to the same types of conflict of interest
Trump talked about?

Joining me now is Ezra Klein, MSNBC policy analyst and editor-in-chief of Ezra, great to see you.

So, does Trump`s boasting about how he gets favors down the line in
exchange for donations square with the way big donors and politicians
interact? Is he exposing a common practice?

EZRA KLEIN, VOX.COM: This is my favorite moment of the night by far.

Number one, I think the first rule of paying people to show up at your
wedding, particularly like important famous people is you don`t tell the
world you
paid them to be there. You want the world to think they were there of
their own

Trump`s kind of honesty is breathtaking here.

But I thought that was actually genuinely a trenchant little discourse on
the corruption of American politics. Trump is right. Something that I
think people all think -- you`ll hear people talk constantly about how big
money polarizes American politics.

And to some degree it does. You have donors like the Koch brothers who are
donating in ideological fashions. But you also have this transactional
money in politics that rises above ideology. People keep, particularly in
the Republican Party, attacking Trump because he donated to Democrats. And
he keeps saying I gave to Democrats. I gave to Republicans. And I gave to
all of them, because I wasn`t supporting them, I was buying them.

And there is something powerful about hearing someone like Trump, someone
who really was on that side of the equation, as you correctly put it, say
that is that I was doing. This was not me supporting them. This is me
trying to bribe them
to do what I wanted them to do.

And in my opinion, it was an excellent investment.

ROBERTS: Yeah, get them on the payroll.

When it comes to weddings, though, we typically all pay our guests with an
open bar and access to top shelf.

KLEIN: There`s some transactionalism there, too.

ROBERTS: You know, and then you`ve got to hope for a good wedding gift.

But Trump taunted the other candidates in this, doing a little pointing out
that he has donated to a lot of their campaigns. I want to show that to
everybody. Take a look.


TRUMP: You know, most of the people on this stage I`ve given to, just so
you understand. A lot of money.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you`re welcome to give...

RUBIO: Actually, to be clear, he supported Charlie Crist. You gave
Charlie Crist...

HUCKABEE: Donald, if you end your campaign I hope you will give to me.

TRUMP: Good. Sounds good. sounds good to me, governor.


ROBERTS: Wow, all right. So Trump has not donated to everyone, Ezra. But
he has donated to Bush, Walker and Huckabee and Cruz`s PACs. And then we
saw the Oliver wants some more porridge on the stage there with people
asking for his money.

But it really is common for big donors to sprinkle their money far and
wide, because they hedge their bets.

KLEIN: Yeah. Listen, you want to invest in an index fund, not just one
stock that could tank. There`s a real grossness to that moment, because of
how true it was. I mean, they really would have taken his money if he had
taken out his checkbook.

Look, and I think something that`s important here is that there are two
kinds of money being accepted right now. You look at Jeb Bush up there,
right. We know who Donald Trump`s donor is, it`s Donald Trump. And we
know why Donald Trump supports Donald Trump, because Donald Trump thinks
Donald Trump is the greatest human being who has ever walked the face of
the Earth.

Jeb Bush, he delayed entering the presidential campaign officially so he
could raise larger amounts of unlimited cash for his super PAC.

He`s raised more than $100 million. You`ve got a bunch of other folks on
that stage with super PACs that have at least one donor giving $1 million
or more.

These are folks who have been -- who really owe someone a lot.

When you`re raising for your own presidential campaign, there`s a pretty
sharp contribution limit. You can`t get a million bucks from someone. But
for the super PAC, and these super PAC are independent, not -- they`re not
even independent in name only. Remember, Carly Fiorina has one basically
named after her.

So, there is a sort of deep corruption. Trump is right about that. And
Trump is at least honest about who`s funding him.

The Super PACs are -- and the other 501(c)4s are much more dangerous.

ROBERTS: Is yet to see if voters are actually paying attention.

Ezra Klein, great seeing you, Ezra. Thank you, sir.

Coming up next, after more than 16 years, Jon Stewart says farewell to the
Daily Show.


COLBERT: Like Frodo, you are leaving us on a voyage to the undying lands.

STEWART: I`m just going to New Jersey.




STEWART: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is everywhere. Now the good news is this,
(EXPLETIVE DELTED) has gotten pretty lazy and their work is easily
detected. And looking for it is kind of a pleasant way to pass the time,
like an eye spy of (EXPLETIVE DELTED). So I say to you tonight, friends,
the best defense against (EXPLETIVE DELETED is vigilance. So, if you smell
something, say something.


ROBERTS: After 16 years, Jon Stewart has officially signed off from the
Daily Show, and in many ways his final show last night was consistent with
the more than 2,000 episodes that preceded it. It was full of wit and
bleeped profanities and very funny, talented people who helped make that
show a success.

But last night`s show also included a moment of genuine, earnest emotion,
courtesy of show alum Steven Colbert.


COLBERT: You are infuriatingly good at your job, okay?


COLBERT: And all of us, all of us who were lucky enough to work with you -
- and you can edit this out later -- all of us who were lucky enough to
work with you for 16 years are better at our jobs because we got to watch
you do yours. And we are better people for having known you.


ROBERTS: We all are.

So joining me now Josh Zepps, host of HuffPost Live`s Point of Inquiry and
the podcast We the People Live.

JOSH ZEPPS, WE THE PEOPLE LIVE: That`s right. We the People Live.

ROBERTS: We the People Live. I was going to say we the people live.

But so how does last night`s finale stand up to the tenure and the quality
of the legacy that Jon Stewart leaves behind?

ZEPPS: It was appropriate. It wasn`t hilarious, I didn`t think, but it
appropriate in tone, because -- I mean, it`s difficult to do these final
shows. How can you possibly encapsulate 16 years of what his legacy is in
a final show, right. But I do think that his main contribution, what we
just saw in the Colbert clip, where Colbert said, you know, you doing what
you have been doing has made us all better at what we`re doing.

I think the same could be said of the country in a certain way. I think
the same thing can be said of the news media in a certain way, that what he
brought to analysis of public events and what he brought in terms of
fearlessly calling BS on
hypocrisy in the media and hypocrisy in government, especially in the era
between, say, 9/11 and the financial crisis, when a lot of media
institutions were playing this game of sort of false equivalency, there
wasn`t a lot of good investigative journalism, he would stand up and kind
of give voice to people.

I think that he did help the rest of the media to realize that that was a
way of doing thing.

ROBERTS: Well, he made learning funny. And by exposing the hypocrisy of
politics as you point out. But then we get this tweet from the president
where he said, you`ve been a great gift to the country.

And then we got this montage of political figures who have been a target of
Jon Stewart in the past over the years, but they showed up to show their


CHRISTIE: I`ll never forget you, Jon. But I will be trying.

RANGEL: Good riddance, smartass.

SCHUMER: Don`t go, come back.

Jon, I`m being sarcastic.

CLINTON: And just when I`m running for president. What a bummer.


EMMANUEL: What has nine-and-a-half fingers and won`t miss you at all?
This guy.

BLITZER: Jon, I just don`t know what to say.

GRAHAM: I`m sure you`ll be missed by somebody.

KERRY: You know, there are a lot of things happening around the world...


ROBERTS: Anyway, the montage goes on and on. And we had all the
making cameos last night. But then we weren`t sure if Wyatt Cenac was
going to show up. He did show up. So he squashed all the beefs.

So, Jon Stewart goes out on a high. What`s next?

ZEPPS: I suspect that he will direct. I mean, he directed Rosewater, his
first feature film. I think that his heart probably lies in doing
something that`s creative, that`s outside of the satirical sphere of
things. One thing is certain, he`s not going to be coming back on
television every evening anymore, which is a shame.

ROBERTS: Josh Zepps, great to see you.

That is going to do it for All In this evening.


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