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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Sunday, August 9th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Sunday show

Date: August 9, 2015
Guest: Caitlyn Huey-Burns, David Avella, Joan Walsh, Karen Tumulty, Arturo
Sarukhan, Ben Cardin


JONATHAN CAPEHART, UP SHOW HOST: The party goes on. Good morning. Thanks
for getting up with us. I`m Jonathan Capehart for Steve Kornacki. A
conservative forum for many of the republican presidential candidates did
take place yesterday without Donald Trump, but that doesn`t mean Donald
Trump`s name didn`t come up. We`ll get to that in a moment.

It was one year ago today. A deadly encounters between an unarmed black
teenager and a police officer in Missouri sparked months of unrest and
started a national conversation about how police and minority communities
can coexist. We`ll be live in Ferguson later on in the show, which brings
us to what happened this weekend in Texas.

An unarmed 19-year-old was shot and killed by the police. An update on
where the investigation stands this morning. But we begin this morning with
what appears to be a building drum beat within the Republican Party. That
it`s time to call in the sandman to pull Donald Trump off the stage.

First, yesterday`s surprise disinvites. The conservative Red State
convention in Atlanta went on without Trump who was told at the 11th hour
that he wouldn`t be welcome. And while Red State organizer Erick Erickson
took some heat for that decision, as they went on a growing chorus of
conservatives seemed suddenly willing to pile on Trump. The tipping point,
Trump`s relentless slams on debate moderator and Fox News host Megyn Kelly,
who he suggested was too hard on him at the debate because she was


DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Get out and she starts asking
me also all sorts of ridiculous questions. You know, you could see there
was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.


CAPEHART: That comment drew a barrage of anger from GOP hard-liners and
hopefuls who used the podium yesterday to take aim at the unfiltered front-


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve got my wife here. I`ve got my daughter here. I`ve
got 800 friends of mine here. It`s a family friendly program. And if he`s
not going to clarify that this isn`t what he meant, I don`t think I want
him at my event.

JEB BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do we want to insult 53 percent of
all voters? What Donald Trump said is wrong. That is not how we win
elections. And worse yet, that is not how you bring people together to
solve problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want somebody that will stand up to the Washington
machine. We want someone who will speak their piece. We want somebody who`s
not bound by political correctness, who else who want him to make sense,
don`t we?

CAPEHART: Trump has still not apologized and doesn`t seem like he will.
Tweeting yesterday, political correctness is killing our country, weakness.
Then came news that Trump`s longtime business ally and campaign adviser
Roger Stone is stepping down or was fired depending on who you ask.

Trump`s people say they cut him loose. Stone tells it differently. Robert
Costa is the national political reporter with The Washington Post and was
at Red State in Atlanta.

Robert, thanks for being here. And I want to talk to you about the
controversy over Stone`s departure. First, what are you hearing? And more
importantly, what did Donald Trump say to you when he called you this very


CAPEHART: Good morning.

COSTA: The Red State ended yesterday. And Donald Trump called me at 7.15
this morning to preview his Sunday show hits. He`s going to be doing a few
shows this morning. And to reflect on the week that`s been -- Trump`s
message was this. He thinks that it`s been a wild week. Not exactly how he
wanted it to unfold in every respect in terms of the debate and the
controversy with Erickson.

But he wanted to reiterate to me and to, I guess the whole press corps that
he`s staying in the race, he`s enjoying what he`s doing, and he kept using
the word "wild and fun." I mean, he`s having fun with this campaign. He
thinks he can continue to move on and run a serious campaign. That`s the
word he also used.

CAPEHART: Interesting. So, when Erick Erickson announced Trump`s
invitation had been revoked, there was a mix of applause and boos. What did
you hear from attendees after the gathering?

COSTA: A lot of attendees at Red State feel that Trump has struck a cord
with the frustrations that has been mounting for years in the republican
base. At the same time, they`d like to see him run a more disciplined
campaign and to really live up to that expectation that he talks about when
he says he`s going to have a serious bid.

And so, I think they are in a wait and see moment, they`re not so sure
Trump`s going to fall on the polls but they`re not so sure he`s going to be
the nominee either.

CAPEHART: So, Robert, stay there. I want to bring in the panel. Caitlyn
Huey-Burns is a political -- political, I`m sorry, political reporter with
Real Clear Politics. David Avella is the chairman of GOPAC. And MSNBC
political analyst, Joan Walsh, is also editor-at-large of Salon.

Thank you all for being here this morning. Caitlyn, let me start with you.
Do you think there`s a cohesive plan or a unified effort within the
Republican Party right now to ice out Donald Trump?

tried that in the past and it hasn`t worked. Remember, the RNC chairman
called Donald Trump. You had some of these rivals going after him directly
and nothing really seems to have taken and back to that actually kind of
helped to propel him.

I do think, though, we`re seeing a little bit of a change in terms of the
supporters of Donald Trump. They want someone that is serious about this.
The frustration is real. He has tapped into that vein. But they want
someone who can, you know, take this all the way.

And I think they`re starting to see, as we saw in the debate last -- the
other night, that he may not be as serious as they want him to be. So, the
question is, which of these candidates sees that -- embraces that opening?
We`ve seen a couple of them kind of competing for that lane. Do these
supporters move on?

CAPEHART: David, Donald Trump has his own money. And he`s got lots of it.
So, what kind of control, if anything, can the party have on someone like
this who has shown, time and time again, he`s willing to go rogue?

DAVID AVELLA, GOPAC CHAIRMAN: Your question to Caitlyn suggested that
we`re more organized and coordinated than we are in the Republican Party.
That said, look, Donald Trump being in that debate on Thursday was helpful
to republicans in general. 24 million people now got to hear the messages
of all of our candidates.

And my thought on this is that the winners of Thursday`s debate were really
Marco Rubio and John Kasich. Both talked in human terms. Both talked in
ways that showed how far we can go. We`re very visionary in their
discussions. And so, for people who didn`t know the other nine candidates
or didn`t know much about the other nine candidates, Donald Trump being on
that debate stage got 24 million people to see them.

CAPEHART: Twenty four million people watched that debate but, I mean,



WALSH: What did they see?

CAPEHART: Exactly.

WALSH: I mean, they saw a mess. You know, I think John Kasich had a very
good night. Marco Rubio is now on record supporting an abortion ban with no
exceptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother. Scott Walker stood on
that stage and looked panel like associate halfway when Megan Kelly asked,
would you really let a woman die instead of letting her have an abortion to
save her life.

I mean, the extent to which these guys have gone to the right with Donald
Trump, the extent to which they`re upstaged by him, I`m glad you thought it
was a good night, and it was certainly a big, big audience, but I think a
lot of people watched it and saw a freak show.

CAPEHART: Joan, if I also heard candidates talk about tax plans. They got
to hear Ben Carson talk about his tax plan. They got to hear how we would
be opposed to the Iran deal. They got to hear republicans talk about how
they would fight ISIS differently than how this administration has done it.

So, you picked that one particular issue but that was a two-hour debate.
They heard far more than just the issue that you suggest that 24 million
people heard about.

WALSH: Right, but what`s lingered is the way Trump has treated Megyn Kelly
and that`s what we`re all talking about. Maybe we`ll get back to these
other issues but that`s what persisted.


HUEY-BURNS: And you`re starting to see these candidates get frustrated.
Some of these candidates get really frustrated with not being able to get
their message out. I do think that, you know, some of these candidates did
stand out Thursday by being on that stage with Trump at the center and
being able to at least get some words in and get some of their messages

So, I think that spoke highly, you know, of the candidates who were able to
kind of present themselves without being totally outshined by Trump. But
this frustration has -- with this -- the rivals, you know, they`ve had to
deal with this for almost two months now. I mean, Donald Trump announced
his campaign the day after Jeb Bush did and has been in the headlines since

CAPEHART: Right. He`s taken up all the oxygen, all the attention. He`s
also proven to be, as I saw a quote somewhere at BulletProof. He has done
things, said things that would have sunk any number of other -- of other
candidacies. I`m just sort of wondering, the battle that he`s in now, will
that only serve to make him stronger still?

WALSH: Well, I think it`s dangerous to take on Fox, right? That is a tough
thing for a republican to do. I`m not saying he`s going to lose. I mean,
and Megan, poor Megyn Kelly, I can`t believe I`m saying this, she`s a tough
woman, she can take it, but the extent to what she has been humiliated. But
also, you know, if you went to her Facebook page the other day, the extent
to which his fans have come on and told her that she was wrong, that she
did the wrong thing.

And then we have the spectacle of Erick Erickson who himself has said such
horrible misogynist things about women. I mean, not just calling Wendy
Davis abortion Barbie. But calling Renee Ellmers, a wonderful conservative
republican woman, the GOP`s abortion Barbie because she fought to get the
rape, incest, life of the mother exception in the 20-week abortion ban.
That`s the man who`s now saying Trump has gone too far.

So, there`s a bit of a Civil War and I don`t know who wins when it`s Fox
versus Trump.

CAPEHART: I heard, Robert, you wanted to get in here. I want your reaction
to what you`ve been hearing. But also, can you explain how -- did Trump say
how he was going to be serious when you talked to him this morning?

COSTA: He did. He talked about it for about 15 minutes. The fascinating
thing about my conversation with Trump this morning and a few of him
yesterday was that Trump is very aware of the public perception and the
perception in Washington and nationwide of his campaign.

He reads articles every day about his campaign. He`s very attuned to
Twitter. This is a politician who`s plugged in with the media for better
and for worse perhaps. But that`s how he operates. And so, he`s hearing all
this talk that he`s had a fumbling week. That he didn`t do as much as he
could at the debate.

And he said his whole job right now is to make sure that his campaign is
prepared in 50 states. He said, his campaign manager Corey Lewandowski has
been dispatched by him to go more to Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina,
get more people on board, to clean house in the Trump organization.

They`ve gotten rid of two top advisers including Stone on parted ways.
There`s different of course, disputed time lines and how this all happened.
But two advisers certainly have left the camp. And Trump says he`s giving
Corey Lewandowski who came from the Koch brother`s network, the Americas
for prosperity more leverage more ability to go make higher to go expand
his network, to try to remain a viable serious contender. We`ll see if it
works, but that`s Trump`s plan and the perception of what he needs to do.

CAPEHART: Your morning started very early and very newsworthy. Robert
Costa, you`ll be back. He`s stating with the panel a little bit longer. But
switching gears, we turn now to Texas. Where the FBI is now helping in the
investigation into the death of an unarmed football player, shot and killed
by a police officer.

Police released this surveillance video from the moments before Christian
Taylor was shot and killed at an auto dealership. The tape appears to show
him vandalizing cars and then crashing through the dealership`s window but
does not show his confrontation with the officer who shot him. MSNBC`s Adam
Reiss is live in Arlington, Texas, this morning.

ADAM REISS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jonathan. The police chief
here in Arlington, as you mentioned, has asked the FBI to join in the
investigation, which he says will be thorough and transparent.

Now, the surveillance video shows Christian Taylor arriving. He`s 19 years
old. Early Friday morning, around 1 a.m. smashes through the front gate of
this dealership. You then see him jumping up and down on a car. He rips out
the windshield of that car. He then drives his jeep through the front of
the dealership.

That`s about the time that police get a 911 call of a burglary in progress.
They arrived, they surround the perimeter. Officer Miller chases Taylor to
the back of the dealership. There`s some sort of a struggle. He asks him to
lie down. According to police, he doesn`t lie down. Officer Miller fires
four times. Taylor was unarmed at the time.


WILL JOHNSON, ARLINGTON POLICE CHIEF: Any police department dealing with
this type of an event, it would, and can, shake the confidence of those
relationships. But it demonstrates the value of why we do community
policing, the value of why we believe in procedural justice, and the
reasons why we invest in our community, so that we can work through very
difficult and concerning issues like this.


REISS: Now, Officer Miller`s 49 years old, he`s a rookie. He joined the
force in September. He graduated the academy in March. He`s in training
technically. An officer in training. He has been placed on desk duty. Just
so you know, Jonathan, about a week ago, Taylor had tweeted, I don`t want
to die too young. Jonathan.

CAPEHART: Adam Reiss in Arlington, Texas. Thank you. Still ahead, Donald
Trump wants Mexico to pay for a wall on the border. We`ll talk to the
former Mexican ambassador to the United States those comments.

And next, the post-debate money race. Who`s winning over the donors? Stay
with us.



TRUMP: You know, most of the people on this stage I`ve given to, just so
you understand, a lot of money.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you`re welcome to give me a check, Donald.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, to be clear...

TRUMP: That`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... he supported Charlie Crist.

TRUMP: Not much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Charlie, I hope you will give to me.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. It sounds good. It sounds good to me, governor.


CAPEHART: That was the scene at Thursday night`s debate of course, when
some of the candidates did something that usually happens behind closed
doors. They started fund-raising. Asking the nearest billionaire in sight,
Donald Trump, to support them when and if he decides to end his campaign.

It was a surprising and revealing exchange because many top republican
donors like the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson have yet to commit their
support to any one republican candidate.

According to a Politico analysis, the federal fundraising reports, only 10
of the top republican donors from the 2014 cycle have contributed at least
$1 million to the candidates in their outside groups.

Did Thursday`s debate help donors decide where to put their money? Or are
the majority of them still waiting on the sidelines? My colleague Robert
Costa is back here with us. So, Robert, what do you think? Are donors
finding candidates to support?

COSTA: At this moment, most of the donors have found their candidate.
They`ve seen a whole -- they`ve gotten their horse and they want to ride it
to the nomination. Some of the bigger ones, they`re still on the sidelines
and they`re watching these debates very closely.

They`re seeing who can maybe endure this Trump phenomenon. Stay into the
race into the fall and emerge as a contender. And a lot of them who, their
representatives have been e-mailing me in the past few days, they thought
Kasich had a strong debate. Rubio had a strong debate. They know Walker,
Bush top tier, but they think some others could come up into that range.

CAPEHART: And a follow up, Robert, where does Trump play into all this? I
mean, he`s the only billionaire on the stage. So, will he have cloud among
donors and does he even need or want their money?

COSTA: Trump believes that if he does continue to ascend and he gets close
to the nomination, eventually he may get some grassroots activists to give
small dollar donations. Who does not believe he needs to have a fundraising
apparatus of any serious nature behind him.

But the donors for the other candidates are worried because they also said
that Trump would fade away. And Trump insists he`s staying in. And so, if
that`s the case, if Trump is not going to this quit in September or
October, you have to have a financial strategy to maybe go after Trump in
ads, to make sure you have the ground game and the money, to make sure you
can survive if Trump is in.

CAPEHART: So, Caitlyn, let me ask you or maybe if you know, or if anyone
at the table knows, the Koch brothers held a big donor gathering last
weekend in California. Between that and this week`s debate, any idea if
they`ve made a decision?

HUEY-BURNS: Well then, I think they said before that they were interested
in Scott Walker.

AVELLA: In Scott Walker.

HUEY-BURNS: I know, you know, Rubio has been impressive and they all went
there last weekend. Why this really matters, though, is because with the
advent of super packs and they`re playing a huge role this cycle because
these candidates can stay in for a longer time.

CAPEHART: A long time.

WALSH: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: And we`ve seen, and with 17 of them this is going to be a
really long primary. So, there is this fight for the donor race. But a
Robert mentioned, pretty much every one of these candidates has a wealth of
-- a financier behind them and they can stay in this for a long time.

CAPEHART: You know, when earlier this year, when I was on this very
program as a guest, I was talking to a republican strategist and I asked,
with all these people getting into the race, how will I know the serious
candidates from the not-so-serious candidates? And the person said, follow
the billionaires. If they have a billionaire, if a billionaire has adopted
him or her, then they`re going to hang in. But you`re shaking your head no.

AVELLA: Two things. One, I wrote in on Real Clear Politics, in fact,
about, look, if the market`s -- not unlike the markets, politics will
follow the same. If you don`t start winning in New Hampshire, Iowa, and
South Carolina, your money is going to dry up. Donors aren`t going to give
to a lost cause. And so, you may have someone right now giving you
financial support. It doesn`t mean you`re always going to.

One of the other things we didn`t mention earlier, about those reports, is
the number of donors who have given to more than one republican candidate.

WALSH: Right.

AVELLA: And so, it`s not as if donors aren`t giving to multiple candidates
that they find impressive. In fact, they are. And the other thing I would
note is Hillary Clinton is certainly rallying her billionaires too. So,
it`s not just one side here that`s rallying billionaires.

WALSH: Although I think she`s raised about 45 million and Jeb Bush is
closer to 140, so.

AVELLA: She`s got to get better at fundraising. She does right, it`s
really different.


WALSH: Well, but, I mean, it`s really different.

HUEY-BURNS: The interesting thing, though, about the primaries and the
caucuses, I mean, with so many candidates running, the threshold for
winning these states or caucuses is very low.

WALSH: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: I mean, you can win New Hampshire with 20 percent of the vote.

AVELLA: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: And 17 candidates you kind of go from there. So, you could
come in, you know, third, fourth, fifth place within, you know, a point or
less than a point, percentage point, of these candidates, and still, you
know, claim that you`ve won. And that signals the donors too.

CAPEHART: Robert, let me end with you. What are your final thoughts on

COSTA: I think money`s going to matter even more because if Trump becomes
this candidate who`s either going to win as an independent or he stays in
the race for the republican nomination. It`s going to be even more
expensive than every single campaign expected and you`re going to need to
have a presence on the airways in these early states to compete with the
media presence of Trump who goes on every single show it seem and gives

And so, that kind of presence really is something no one had predicted and
that`s change in the whole race. It`s go -- as Trump told me this morning,
wild times.

CAPEHART: Yes, wild times. My colleague from The Post, Robert Costa,
thanks so much for getting up and being with us this morning.

COSTA: Thank you.

CAPEHART: Still ahead, have we lost sight of who the real Hillary Clinton
is? And next, new details about the waste wastewater spill that turned this
river yellow, why the crisis may be getting worse.


CAPEHART: I want to update you on a story we first brought you yesterday.
The yellow sludge that polluted a Colorado river has reached New Mexico.
The sludge is really wastewater from an old goldmine. The water contains
heavy metals including lead and arsenic.

The EPA officials don`t yet know how toxic the water is, but they`re
warning people to stay out of the river. Officials in two New Mexico towns
have taken steps to keep river water from reaching their water treatment
plants in order to protect their drinking water supplies. And you know
what? The EPA is the one that actually caused the spill. While it was
investigating a leak at the gold mine.

Still ahead, North Korea takes another dramatic step toward isolating
itself from the rest of the world. And next, the new ads that might make
you look at Hillary Clinton in a whole new light.


doing this, I think about my mother, Dorothy. She was abandoned by her
parents at the age of eight. Sent from Chicago to L.A. to live with
grandparents who didn`t want her.

I think about the Dorothy`s all over America who fight for their families,
who never give up. That`s why I`m doing this. That`s why I`ve always done
this for all the Dorothy`s.


CAPEHART: Dorothy. As that ad is known is one of Hillary Clinton`s first
two television ads of the campaign. They`re airing in the early nominating
states of Iowa and New Hampshire. And while the ads focus on her biography,
as with all things Clinton, they were meant with cynicism.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, Hillary Clinton launching her campaign`s
first TV ads, keeping the focus on her family and not her credentials.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s completely phony, completely cold and calculated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her mother is quite an amazing woman. But they`re not
voting for her mother.


CAPEHART: These criticisms struck a nerve with me because it seems like no
matter what Hillary Clinton does, people accuse her of being a phony. But I
see it differently. Here you have Hillary Clinton telling the story of her
deprivation. A woman she was very close to.

And because of her mother`s perseverance, she can now stand before the
American people and ask for their vote for President of the United States.
I don`t know how you could watch that video and not make that connection.

Her mother`s story is the American story. So, I want to start this
discussion by playing two clips that seem very much alike. One is of
Hillary Clinton, and the other, Marco Rubio.


CLINTON: People showed her kindness, gave her a chance. Like the teacher
who saw my mother had no money for food and started bringing her extra from
home, whispering, you know, Dorothy, I just brought too much food today.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My father was a bartender and
the journey from the back of that bar to this stage tonight, to me, that`s
the essence of the American dream. It makes our nation different. And I`m
running for president because I want that to still be possible for people
trying to do that now.


CAPEHART: Joining the panel for this is Karen Tumulty, national political
reporter at the Washington Post. Thanks for being here, Karen.


CAPEHART: So, Karen, why do those clips of Clinton and Rubio get such
different reactions?

TUMULTY: Well, because Hillary Clinton has been a part of our national
psyche, I think for at least a quarter of century now. So, it really is
pretty extraordinary that she is introducing herself to the American public
now. And the story of her mother is something that she wrote about
extensively in her earlier memoir, living history.

Marco Rubio is somebody who really burst on to the national scene just a
few years ago. And another issue I think is that Hillary Clinton, assuming
she gets the nomination, as we all do, is likely to be running against a
governor or a senator or someone who can point to a lot of very tangible
accomplishments in their career.

And Hillary Clinton, you know, from her time in the Senate there really
were no land park pieces of legislation with her name on them. As Secretary
of State, she was largely involved in strengthening relationships with
people around the world.

But, again, there will be not at a singular accomplishment like, say, this
Iranian arms deal was for John Kerry. When she tried to reform the health
system, she failed. When she ran for president, she failed.

So, again, it`s the extraordinary part of it is that a woman who has been
part of all our lives for this long still feels that she has to introduce

CAPEHART: Well, Joan, what`s her reaction to what Karen said, and also
bring into the discussion, if you could, the question of Hillary Clinton`s
honesty and trustworthiness. I mean, the pole numbers are bad. Only 37
percent of people believed that she is honest and trustworthy.

WALSH: Well, I think one of the problems that she has is that she came
into our lives as the wife of a man running for president and as the First
Lady. So, we weren`t getting to know her family. Nobody talked about her

I think the other thing that`s really smart about these ads, though, is
there`s a very facile comparison ads between the Bush`s and the Clintons.
We don`t want a dynasty. We don`t want two dynasties. When the Bush`s
really are -- they are not a dynasty technically, but they`re well...


CAPEHART: Compared to the Clintons, they are.

WALSH: Compared to the Clintons. Their wealth goes back many generations.
His father was president. His grandfather was in the Senate. Franklin
Pierce, also his mother`s side is a president, you know, they`ve been
central and very wealthy and very privileged. She`s from a very struggling
middle class family. Her mother was below middle class. It`s important to
get those contrasts out there.

HUEY-BURNS: Well, and it`s important because we talk about Hillary Clinton
reintroducing herself this election. But she`s very much introducing
herself to a lot of young voters who...

WALSH: That`s true.

HUEY-BURNS: Who were not around...


AVELLA: Alive...

WALSH: Right.

AVELLA: ... at the time of the Clinton presidency.

HUEY-BURNS: And we`re very also, you know, obviously very young when Bush
was -- when George Bush was president. So, that`s a big part of it. And
what`s interesting about Rubio -- what Rubio is doing and some of the
others have talked about this too, is that he is trying to draw contrasts
within his own party as well with his personal story.


HUEY-BURNS: And I was at his announcement speech in Miami. I followed him
on that campaign trail in various places. And that really resonates with
republicans who want to kind of get back to that kind of message and that
humble beginning story and appeal to, you know...


WALSH: Right. He`s contrasting himself with Jeb Bush as well.

CAPEHART: With Jeb Bush. Yes, and you know, I mean, I watched Marco
Rubio`s announcement speech. And I have to tell you, when he told that line
of, my father worked in the back of the room so that I could stand here at
the front of the room. I get chills just saying it because it`s a
compelling story, but it is the quintessential American story. And that`s
why when I saw the Dorothy ad, I thought, she`s got the quintessential
American story, yet no one talks about it.

WALSH: Right.

AVELLA: Republicans are on dangerous ground if we want to suggest that
Hillary Clinton`s not been successful, that she hasn`t had achievements in
her life. Where we need to focus is on the idea she`s trying to
communicate, where she wants to take America.

And, look, voters are pretty smart. And you referenced it, her very low
trustworthy numbers. In fact, that was in the airport on the way back from
Cleveland, from the debate, talking to this young female democratic voter
who said Hillary Clinton, her hands are dirty.

CAPEHART: Yes, and go ahead, Caitlyn.

HUEY-BURNS: Well, I was going to say, I think a lot of the appeal of
Bernie Sanders beyond, you know, the economic message is that he is
accessible. His events are seen as accessible. His campaign is seen as
accessible to young people. So, I think that`s part of this.

And so, when you`re introducing yourself to people and you have not only a
challenge within the party but also all -- you have 17 republicans for the
past several months directly going after her.


WALSH: Right. And also a generation of republicans who have targeted her
and her husband.

CAPEHART: And her husband.

TUMULTY: So, although...

CAPEHART: Go ahead, Karen.

TUMUTY: The real question, and the one she hasn`t really answered yet or
even begun to answer is, where would she take the country specifically.
What are her policies? Her husband famously said over and over, elections
are about the future.

And at some point, Hillary Clinton is going to have to explain how a
Hillary Clinton presidency would be like and also how it would be different
from the presidencies of both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, for whom she

CAPEHART: And one more thing, Karen, how can -- well, I mean, you probably
just sort of answered this question. I was going to ask, how can Hillary
Clinton bring the conversation back to being a champion of every day
Americans. You say that she needs to say what her plan is.

I would argue that she has been giving speeches over the last several


CAPEHART: ... on many, many topics. Criminal justice.


TUMULTY: They`re thematic.

CAPEHART: Voting rights. She has an economic plan that she just gets
climate change. So, is that not enough?


WALSH: Student debt tomorrow, student card affordability tomorrow.

TUMULTY: Their thematic plans at this point but specifics. And probably
she needs a specific republican to contrast herself from and not just
republican philosophies. But I really don`t think that these have yet added
up to a real rationale for running and a real description of where she
would take the country and a real contrast with, again, the last couple of
democratic presidencies.

CAPEHART: Karen Tumulty, you`re staying with us and staying with the
panel. And still ahead, one country a world away is planning to go back in
time. We`ll tell you where and why. But first, who is the Trump voter and
what happens when Trump disses their favorite female TV news personality?
Stay with us.


CAPEHART: Donald Trump`s attack on Fox News`s Megyn Kelly marks a turning
point for Mr. Trump and the 2016 field. His comments have the potential to
inflict serious damage on his base of support and here`s why.

The republican candidate`s response to Mr. Trump were intended to defend
one person and one person only. Carly Fiorina starting it off tweeting,
quote, "I stand with Megyn Kelly." Lindsey Graham beginning his statement
yesterday with, quote, "Due to Donald Trump`s unrelenting and offensive
attack on Megyn Kelly and others, we are at a crossroads with Mr. Trump."

Then Scott Walker, "I agree with Carly Fiorina, there`s no excuse for
Trump`s comments. Stand with Megyn Kelly." And Mike Huckabee, Kelly`s
former colleague at Fox News, defending her in Atlanta yesterday.


MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Even though I worked with her,
I`ll tell you, she is one of the most beloved people in the building. She
is also one of those people you don`t tangle with.


CAPEHART: Before Thursday`s debate an NBC survey, monthly online survey of
3,000 republican primary voters showed Trump leading the field at 22
percent. Then if you break that down, Trump also leads among white voters
at 23 percent, and among men and seniors at 24 percent each.

In other words, Trump leads among Fox News core audience. The kinds of
voters who watch the network every day. And he just attacked the most
popular woman on that network. Arguably, the most popular woman in
conservative media. A woman beloved by the very theme demographic that
Trump voter represents.

To quote Governor Huckabee, "He attacked the woman you don`t tangle with."
So, Trump called some Mexicans rapists and criminals in his announcement
speech. And said to a crowd that Senator John McCain was not a war hero.
None of those proved to be the breaking point for his supporters. Could
this be it?

Karen Tumulty is back with the panel. Karen, is this the weekend we see the
support disappear for Donald Trump?

TUMULTY: I am not at all sure it is. Because it is true, his comments
about Megyn Kelly were not at all different in tone or substance than a lot
of the comments that he`s been making about women going at least as far
back as I was able to trace in the article this morning`s Washington Post
to 1991.

And you`ve really -- as a thought experiment, imagine if he had said
basically some equivalent comment about Hillary Clinton. Would he have been
disinvited from Red State? No. So, I mean, on the one hand, you do have a
lot of umbrage being expressed by republican presidential candidates where
you haven`t seen before. I`m still not sure that this affects that core of
support that Donald Trump has.

CAPEHART: Do you guys agree with that?

WALSH: Yes, I do. I mean, I was on the show when he made those comments
about Senator John McCain, this show. And I said then, I don`t think this
hurts him. This, I have a little bit more doubt, you know, Karen, it`s
possible because she`s so beloved. But I`m not sure.

I mean, I think that this crowd thinks people have to be tougher. She
should toughen up. And there`s really a sense, and it might actually -- it
might be kind of accurate, that she was hard on him. That Fox was harder on
him than they were on the other nine up there. And so, that he was
justified in striking back. I don`t know.

TUMULTY: Well, by the way, it`s worth pointing out that the polling among
republican primary voters suggests there`s virtually no gender gap at this
point for Donald Trump.

WALSH: Right.

CAPEHART: Incredible.

TUMULTY: That women are as likely to support him nearly as likely as men

AVELLA: Let`s keep this all in perspective.


AVELLA: Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson were our leaders eight years or
seven years. Barack Obama was down 22 points in August of 2007. What we see
in the polls today are not indicative of what`s going to happen. And until
votes actually start getting cast, we`re not going to know who the
republican front-runner is, one.

And Karen mentioned this in her story today that she wrote in The Post, is
that a lot of voters get past celebrity and they don`t know a lot about
Donald Trump. And so, I don`t see how math adds up for Donald Trump when --
get past immigration, you start seeing that he`s pro single payer health
case, he`s pro-choice, he`s for higher taxes, he`s anti-Second Amendment.
Where does the math get him to the number of the votes he needs in a
republican primary amongst republican primary voters to actually get the

WALSH: Well, but I think what he`s saying is that I`ve evolved on all
those issues and I don`t know that republican primary voters are going to
punish him for having held these positions. He says, Ronald Reagan evolved.
That`s true. I mean, I see what you`re saying, David, but I also don`t know
that that`s going to necessarily matter. Because he`s saying all the right
things now.

CAPEHART: Caitlyn, you can try to jump in.

HUEY-BURNS: No. I`ve tried to anticipate what Donald Trump is going to do
totally in vein. And I know we can`t find the answers to that. But I think
where this kind of thing matters in terms of the broader Republican Party
is that really everything that the RNC and generally, the Republican Party
has had, tried to do to kind of change the conversation.

I mean, after the 2012 elections, that autopsy, you know, expanding --
expanding the party base, reaching out to minority voters, especially
Latino voters and being more inclusive to women, changing the language. I
mean, at every turn, Donald Trump really challenges that.

WALSH: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: So, I think it`s going to be incumbent upon these other
candidates. And we`ve seen a little bit of this from some of -- some of
these candidates really try to change the conversation. And again, it`s
going to come from the people that support Trump. If they start to become
offended personally I think by the things that he says, I think that`s when
they might change course.

CAPEHART: Well, let me read you this quote from Joe McQuaid, he`s
publisher of the New Hampshire Union. And he had a great quote; it was in
The New York Times today. Quote, "Trump`s base is more the people who used
to have season tickets to the Roman Coliseum. Not sure that they vote in
great numbers, but they like blood sport." Now sort of gets to what you`ve
been saying, David, that, you know, eventually, the numbers will not be
there for Donald Trump.

AVELLA: The biggest problem he has, more than probably the Megyn Kelly
comment, was the fact that he wouldn`t pledge to support the republican
nominee, while trying to get the republican nomination. And then if you
look at some of the focus group`s post, that was what bothered republicans
the most. And who turns out in republican primaries? Republicans.

HUEY-BURNS: And they want to win. I mean, there is such that feeling of
just we want to win this time.

CAPEHART: And Karen Tumulty, we`re almost out of time. And I`ll give you
the last word. What do you say?

TUMULTY: Well, I think another thing that was telling in the debate was
that when he was pressed on substance, you know, where`s your evidence that
the Mexican government is sending rapists and murderers across the border,
he had none. And I think at some point that also begins to weigh on
people`s minds as they consider how they`re going to vote.

CAPEHART: Well, we`ve got the former Mexican ambassador to the United
States, Arturo Sarukhan. And I`m going to ask him that exact question.
Karen Tumulty of The Washington Post, thanks for coming on this morning.

TUMULTY: Thank you.

CAPEHART: Still ahead in our next hour, our conversation with the key
figure in the debate over the Iran deal. But first, if you like cold
weather, this new job might be for you. We`ll explain. Stay with us.


CAPEHART: There`s a lot going on this morning. Let`s get caught up in some
of the other headlines making the news today with today`s panel. OK. We get
three good ones. I hope we can get to all of them.

The New York Times, a New York islander looking for Zamboni driver. Now,
this is what makes this story hilarious. The hockey teams posting for their
open position as rather interesting because it says, the candidate must be
able to walk, sit, and use hands to finger-handle or feel the objects...

WALSH: That wrote about a dog.

CAPEHART: ... That`s also be able to balance, stoop, kneel, crouch or
crawl, talk or hear, taste or smell. Talk or hear, taste or smell, no need
to have both." What`s both?

AVELLA: Who do I apply? For the last 20 years, I have declared for the
united child of draft and not been drafted, I back can get this.

WALSH: Good for you. Yes. Touch or feel.

HUEY-BURNS: No robots then, right?

WALSH: Right. No dogs, no robots. But other than that, the bar is pretty
low. So, yes.

CAPEHART: And you know, the next story at USA Today, North Korea is
creating its own -- its creating its own time zone. So, the road nation is
going to -- wants to turn back time 30 minutes next week to create
Pyongyang time.

WALSH: I think it`s great. Who doesn`t want their own time zone?

AVELLA: I hope the next thing they create is a system for counting
calories so that I can have this donut and worry.

CAPEHART: But, you know what, you have to eat it.


CAPEHART: You can`t just touch it. You got to eat it.

HUEY-BURNS: Oh, pastry.

WALSH: There you go.

CAPEHART: Now, there you go. There you -- but, I mean, when I read this
story about North Korea wanting to go back in time 30 minutes, I thought,
aren`t they already back in time?

WALSH: This is maybe they`re catching up.

CAPEHART: Maybe. Going back 30 minutes to catch up a couple centuries.
Now, here`s the third story. This is from NPR, David. Michigan lawmaker
reportedly concocted a fake scandal to cover up a real one. The Detroit
News report that a Michigan State representative start to cover up an
affair with a female lawmaker by spreading a rumor that he had engaged in a
public sex act with a male prostitute.

I mean, we`ve gotten to the point where someone concocts a scheme, so, I
mean, it`s twisted. Come on.

WALSH: David, maybe your party is changing. This guy thought he could
survive the rumor of a gay affair. I knew then of kind of counter sexual

AVELLA: You can`t make this stuff up and they`re into something not worthy
of defending.

CAPEHART: And you know what, I`m going to end on a fun note. So, Slate did
something. The Ronald Raven name generally.

WALSH: I love it.

CAPEHART: So, the internet took notice and created a burden
inspired name generator. Mine is Jonathan Cacique, I don`t even know how to
pronounce it, C-A-C-I-Q-U-E.

WALSH: Casique?

CAPEHART: Casique. But it`s not a -- I mean, I don`t know. But we did a
name generator for each of you. Joan, you are Joan Rem.

WALSH: That`s nice.

CAPEHART: David, you are David Appapame (ph) or Appapame.

AVELLA: And so, I`m not adored, I`m sorry.

CAPEHART: That`s all right. And Caitlyn, well...

HUEY-BURNS: What about fascinated, does that include?

CAPEHART: You are Caityn Hummingbird.

HUEY-BURNS: Oh, that`s terrific. Here we go. I`ll go with that.

CAPEHART: That`s nice?


CAPEHART: If anyone knows how to pronounce my raven name, could you please
just tweet me Jay party.

WALSH: Go ahead. Let`s go to Twitter, I`m sure someone will write.

CAPEHART: I know they`re full hour of news and politics coming up with a
live report from Ferguson, Missouri.


CAPEHART: Thanks for staying with us this Sunday morning. I`m Jonathan
Capehart, in for Steve Kornacki who`s off this weekend.

It`s been one year since Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael brown. But
Ferguson Missouri has become so much more than just about those two people.
We`ll take a look back at what`s changed since then.

More controversy surrounding Donald Trump, another feud, this time, it
isn`t another candidate, or even a TV host. One of his top advisers is gone
from the campaign. Details are coming up.

And President Obama`s vacation is off to a pretty, pretty, pretty good
start with the commander-in-chief teeing off with comedian Larry David. But
will lawmaker`s decision on his administration`s Iran deal bring him down?

But we begin this hour with a weekend of memorial marches and protests in
Ferguson, Missouri. One year ago today, Ferguson Police Officer Darren
Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown. A grand jury chose not to indict
Wilson and the Department of Justice cleared him of violating Brown`s civil

But the protests in the aftermath of Brown`s death kicked off a national
conversation about race and the tattered relationship between African-
Americans and law enforcement in a year that saw one unarmed black man
after another killed by a police.

It was also a year that saw some real change. In Ferguson, police officers
now wear body cameras. The interim police chief and city manager there are
African-American. The courts can no longer use traffic tickets to drive
revenue or hold people in jail for minor offenses.

At the national level, President Obama banned the sale of some military
weapons to local police departments, while providing new funding for body
cams. Gun activists say more change is needed. In Missouri, just one of the
more than 60 bills proposed in the aftermath of Ferguson was signed into
law. But more change may be coming.

Polling shows that public opinion about race has changed dramatically in
the last year. A majority of Americans now say the country needs to make
more changes to give blacks and whites equal rights. Support has jumped 13
percent in the last year.

And we`ve already seen the Black Lives Matter movement having an impact on
the presidential campaign. The powerful new video by filmmakers Frank Chee
and Terrence Green pays tribute to the movement with Langston Hughes 1938
poem, "Kids Who Die," read by Danny Glover.


DANNY GLOVER, "KIDS WHO DIE" NARRATOR: Listen, kids who die, maybe now
there will be no monument for you. Except in our hearts. But the day will
come. You are sure yourself that it is coming. And the marching feet of the
masses will raise for you a living monument of love. And joy. And laughter.
And black hands and white hands clasp as one. And a song that reaches the
sky. The song of the life triumphant through the kids who die.


CAPEHART: Wesley Lowery covers race politics and law enforcement for The
Washington Post. And he`s live this morning in Ferguson, Missouri. Wesley,
thanks for coming in. What`s it like back in Ferguson one year later?

me, Jonathan. You know, some things are very similar. Other things are very
different. Even as I got off the plane yesterday, feeling that thick summer
heat, that humidity, that so much reminded me of last August being on these
streets as the protests broke out as we waited for answers on the shooting.

And so, right now, there`s a bit of a solemn mood as the day of vigils and
marches planned. A moment of silence planned at Canfield Drive, the spot
where the shooting took place. Some memorial concerts. But that will likely
give way to another familiar feeling. And that will be a feeling, probably
a bit of anger in a protest on Monday as organizers here plan a day of
civil disobedience.

So, I would expect some arrest and to see some protests. And so, very much
duel feelings here. A day for remembering. A memorial for Michael Brown who
was killed one year ago today. And then secondly, a day of remembering what
he sparked. As we`ll see of that some civil disobedience on Monday.

CAPEHART: And Wesley, one more question, how some Black Lives Matter
movement changed and grown since you`ve been covering it?

LOWERY: You know, I think that, I mean, first of all, when Black Lives
Matter began, which was even prior to Michael Brown being shot and killed,
it still didn`t quite have the national mandate the national reach that we
have now seen it have. What Ferguson changed or what Michael Brown changed
was it really breathed new life into what was a simmering movement that had
begun previously going back to Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, and Austin

What we saw in the last year, though, was a massive expansion from city to
city, here in Ferguson, in New York, in Cleveland, in Madison, Wisconsin.
In fact, in today`s Washington Post in the front page we have the names of
the 24 unarmed black people who have been shot and killed by the police
this year.

There`s now a different understanding of an urgency to issues of policing
and how it interacts with race. And that`s in a way how Black Lives Matter
has both changed and expanded itself this year and how it`s changed the

CAPEHART: Let`s bring in the panel into this. Caitlyn Huey-Burns with Real
Clear Politics is back. GOPAC chairman David Avella, and MSNBC contributor
Joan Walsh with Salon is also here.

So, Wesley was saying that Black Lives Matter movement has breathed new
life into a movement that was already underway. And Wesley made the point
which I made as well that, you know, I think in terms of the national
consciousness about these issues of African-Americans and violence to
African-Americans, you could argue, it goes back to Trayvon Martin.

does go back to Austin Grant. I lived in the bay area at that time. And so,
I think people have been working on these issues very diligently but not
with enough attention. And then Michael Brown happened or Michael Brown was

But then, I mean, I think the leadership has been smart, savvy, wonderful,
hard working. They`ve also gotten and insist from those 24 unarmed black
people who have been shot by police. That`s two a month. It seems like
every morning, we wake up and there`s a new name, there`s a new hash tag on

Christian Taylor. I mean, that`s -- sadly, that`s part of what`s fueling it
but, I think that we`re -- it`s been going on all the time.


WALSH: But now we have hash tags. We have outrage. We name it. We say
their names. I think that`s all Black Lives Matter.

CAPEHART: And the thing that we also have in addition to the hash tags, we
have video for a lot of them.


CAPEHART: And over the last year, particularly this past April, it seemed
like once a week, you had one horrific video after another and I think if
you`re a feeling person, if you`re a thinking person, if you see a video of
someone unarmed being shot and killed, it can`t help but rattle your
consciousness, no?

think that`s why we`ve seen some bipartisan effort on this. I mean, at
least when it comes to some of the things they`ve been trying to do in

DAVID AVELLA, GOPAC CHAIRMAN: That`s from the justice reform.

HUEY-BURNS: Yes, from our justice reform, is going to be a big factor I
think or at least an issue. I`ve seen candidates from both sides of the
aisle talk about this a lot. And so, to your point about, you know, whether
there have been so many cases fueling it, it is obviously unfortunate, but
at least this is one issue that we`re actually seeing some things get done.

AVELLA: The criminal justice reform is something that republican state
legislatures have been taking up for the last couple of years. Big movement
in Georgia. Big movement in Texas. In fact, you even had the U.S. justice
action network pushing to get a criminal justice reform question into the
republican debate. This last cycle I suspect they`re going to continue to
make that push, to make criminal justice something that republicans talk
about during the debate cycle.

And I would also say, the Koch brothers have been big funders of such
efforts that even got the recognition of President Obama and the White
House, and congratulating them on the effort they`re making in this area.

CAPEHART: You know, Cait, Megyn Kelly in the debate, much to my surprise,
actually uttered the words Black Lives Matter, in a question unfortunately,
which came just before a commercial break and given to Governor Walker who
punted. But, David, shouldn`t the GOP talk more about Black Lives Matter?
Why -- I mean, it is a national issue?

AVELLA: There`s a lot of things we should be talking about more. This is a
big issue. As I said, I think you`ve got groups out there and what Holly
Harris is doing at the justice action network is going to continue to push
the republican candidates to talk about it.

We have made strides at the state level. Legislature after legislature is
looking at that. There`s an effort in Virginia. A state senator, Bryce
Reeves, is pushing to do criminal justice reform in Virginia. Do we need to
talk about it more? Sure. To suggest that we`re not doing anything isn`t an
accurate portrayal of what`s happened.

WALSH: I think what`s happening to state level really is important. But on
the national stage right now, you have Jeb Bush who mocked the term Black
Lives Matter. The only -- you have Donald Trump saying we just have to put
the police back in charge. You have to put the police back in charge. And
the only person I can think of who`s saying anything substantive and in my
opinion, correct, is Rand Paul. This is not something that these 17
candidates have flopped to.

CAPEHART: Now on the flip side, on the democratic side, and Larry --
Wesley, I want to bring you into this as well. On the democratic side, the
Black Lives Matter movement is making its presence known very strongly,
where was it, net roots nation. Protesters stormed the stage with Governor
Martin O`Malley and Senator Bernie Sanders. And then something happened
yesterday, as you see in the video here, Senator Sanders was starting to
speak and two members of the Black Lives Matter movement approach the stage
and got on the podium.

And as you can see there, we can`t hear what they`re saying, but you better
believe they`re probably saying things like Black Lives Matter and talked
more about this. But are those protesters making a mistake by yelling at
democrats about this? Wesley.

LOWERY: No, because if they weren`t yelling -- if they yelled to Bernie
Sanders late night, we wouldn`t be having as deep of a conversation
currently and some other people. I mean, and frankly, we wouldn`t be having
this conversation, Jonathan.

But some other people, some other networks might not be having this
conversation about this movement about they`re asking for in this election.
You know, I think that one thing that is different here is very often in
election cycles or be back in 2008, 2012, a lot of outreach to black people
and the black activist goes through very traditional channels.

Who reach out to NAACP, they speak with the Urban League. This is very
different because this is forcing and these activists are attempting to
force these candidates to engage on these issues in a deeper way. Asking
them specific and pointed question and trying to project to them that,
listen, we`re not going to have a behind the scenes meeting in private if
you`re not going to be willing to engage with us in public.

And to use the language we want you to use, to validate our messaging.
Look, at this point, the democratic primary, we`re already seeing the
impact. Martin O`Malley, the first major peace policy who put out with was
a criminal justice for all policy that he allowed them to help him craft.

Hillary Clinton had her campaign reach out multiple times and sit down and
meet with some of these activists. Bernie Sanders reached back out
yesterday, after, after this, to make sure that he could get back into the
good graces of some of these activists.

And so, it`s certainly impacting the democratic race and it`s changing the
way these candidates are interacting with this movement.

CAPEHART: Wesley Lowery, terrific report with The Washington Post. Thanks
for being on with us this morning.

LOWERY: Any time.

CAPEHART: Now to the other big headline this morning, Donald Trump,
proving he can steal the show, even when he`s not at the show. Trump
disinvited to the Red State gathering in Atlanta yesterday, but his name
may have been mentioned more than anyone else in attendance. NBC`s Kelly
O`Donnell was at the event and joins me now from Atlanta. Kelly.

KELLY O`DONNELL, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jonathan. This has been
a three-day convention of really active social conservatives called the Red
State gathering. They are heading home today. And we talked to a number of
them and some were supportive of the decision to say no to Donald Trump, to
disinvite him.

Others thought it would have been beneficial to at least hear him out and
to be able to size him up in person. But he wasn`t here. Yes, he was talked
about. And of course, when it comes to Donald Trump, he`ll always have more
to say. The party went on without Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not sorry that he`s not here.

O`DONNELL: This tailgate bash, part of a conservative convention, would
have been Trump`s place to rail against political correctness. Instead, top
presidential candidate fired a way at him.

JEB BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump ought to apologize.

O`DONNELL: Jeb Bush addressed the controversy directly. Trump`s attack on
debate moderator, Megyn Kelly, after she challenged his comments about


BUSH: Come on, give me a break. I mean, are we -- do we want to win? Do we
want to insult 53 percent of all voters?


O`DONNELL: Trump`s invitation had been revoked. But questions about him
persisted. Other candidates, like Mike Huckabee, were tired of talking


MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m running for president, I`m
not running for the social media critic for somebody else who`s running for


O`DONNELL: Trump`s turmoil turns inward Saturday. A new fight spilled into
public view. Longtime business ally and presidential campaign adviser,
Roger Stone is out. Stone provided his resignation letter, which cited the
current controversies involving personalities and provocative media fights.

Stone wrote, "I no longer can remain involved in your campaign." But more
controversy, the campaign claimed Mr. Trump fired Roger Stone. And the
reason they gave, that Roger wanted to use the campaign for his own
publicity. Trump`s top Iowa campaign and former contestant on his show "The
Apprentice," Tana Goertz, like Trump`s combative style.


TANA GOERTZ, Donald Trump`s CAMPAIGN MANAGER: And when he becomes the
president, of course his tone will change. Right now, if you go after him,
he`s sending in the missiles.


O`DONNELL: And some of the candidates we talked to, and about half of
those running were actually here. Many of them avoid saying Donald Trump`s
name, they don`t want to be drawn into the conversation. You heard how Mike
Huckabee said, "I don`t want to be the social media critic." That`s a
common theme.

Ted Cruz, for example, who is probably the favorite candidate of this
conservative group also tried to avoid it. Not supporting the comments but
also not wanting to get pulled into the conversation. And I think it`s
important to point out, as much as we`re talking about Donald Trump in a
three-day conference like this, much of the time was spent listening to
other candidates, talking about issues.

So, Trump was part of the conversation, but he was certainly not the only
conversation. The people who were here had a lot of interest in knowing
about a whole range of issues from the other candidates. And so, Trump was
only part of the story. He might not like to know that, but that`s really
how I would size it up. Jon.

CAPEHART: That`s right. Kelly O`Donnell, thanks very much. Still ahead,
what impact will Chuck Schumer`s decision to oppose the Iran deal have on
his colleagues in the Senate? We`ll talk to the ranking democrat on the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland.

And next, Donald Trump lashes out at Mexico and a former Mexican official
response. Stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What evidence do you have, specific evidence that the
Mexican government is sending criminals across the border? 30 seconds.

border last week. Border patrol, people that I deal with, that I talk to,
they say this is what`s happening. Because our leaders are stupid, our
politicians are stupid, and the Mexican government is much smarter, much
sharper, much more cunning, and they send the bad ones over because they
don`t want to pay for them.


CAPEHART: That was Donald Trump at the Fox News presidential debate on
Thursday. Trump`s crude commentary on immigration has defined his candidacy
since he entered the race in June, characterizing Mexican immigrants as
criminals and rapists.

Joining us now, Arturo Sarukhan, the former Mexican Ambassador to the
United States. Mr. Ambassador, welcome.

Jonathan. Good morning.

CAPEHART: Thanks for being here. So, I got to ask you, get your response
to that claim from Donald Trump that the Mexican government is sending
criminals across the border.

SARUKHAN: Look, I think his data is as loose as his mouth. Mexico`s loss
is the United States` gain, Jonathan. We`re losing entrepreneurial, bold,
talented women and men that are crossing the border, have been crossing the
border, to look for a better paid job in the United States.

Trump should tell that to the millions of Mexican-Americans who enriched
and strengthen this country. He should tell it to hundreds of employees of
his hotels and his construction sites as preposterous.

And I say this had been the trend, because, again, the facts show, that the
last four or five years, we have reached zero net migration from Mexico.
What does this mean? That more Mexicans are going back to Mexico than those
coming across the border. So, you know, hard data is not a rocket science
thing to follow.

CAPEHART: And why is there a net zero? Is it because the economy is
improving in Mexico? Or is the climate here in the United States so toxic,
that Mexicans are just deciding, I`m going back home?

SARUKHAN: It`s a combination of factors, Jonathan. It`s that the Mexican
economy has been improving steadily over the past 10 decades. Over the past
decade, it`s that organized crime has muscled its way into the business of
human trafficking along the border, so it`s much more dangerous for them to

And it`s also because the U.S. economy, especially in construction, has
been -- has been less muscular than the past. And so, these three factors
combined have had an impact on both people coming across and people who
have decided to go back.

CAPEHART: So, Mr. Ambassador, on Tuesday, Trump was asked how he would get
the Mexican government to pay for a wall along the southern border. Here`s
what he had to say to Bill O`Reilly.


TRUMP: The Great Wall of China built a long time ago is 13,000 miles. I
mean, you`re talking about big stuff. We`re talking about peanuts by
comparison to that. Mexico will pay for the wall. They`re making a fortune.
Mexico is making a fortune in the United States. It`s becoming the new
China in terms of trade. They`re killing us at the border.


CAPEHART: Mr. Ambassador, your response, your reaction to that?

SARUKHAN: Well, again, if you look at history, you can see the Wall of
China or the marginal line observe -- don`t serve their purpose at the end
of the day. What Trump is missing here is that this is a relationship that
is a mutually beneficial one for both countries.

There are 6 million jobs, Jonathan, that depend directly on trade with
Mexico in the United States. Mexico is the second largest buyer of products
from the United States. We trade $1.4 billion a day in both directions.

So, again, I think that what is important to underscore here is that at the
end of the day, Mexico and the United States will either fail or succeed
together and that a rising tide will lift boats on both sides of the
border. These are two countries intimately interconnected in terms of the
future wellbeing, prosperity and security of both nations.

CAPEHART: Mr. Ambassador, two questions. One, what`s the response to
Donald Trump`s candidacy in Mexico? And two, what are you hearing from your
old colleagues in the Mexican government to Donald Trump`s claim that he
can get the Mexican government to pay for the wall?

SARUKHAN: Well, look, I think a lot of people in Mexico take this at face
value. I think that many of them feel that this is an effort to gain
traction in the polls. Obviously, the Mexican government, per the claims
that this will be paid by the current Mexican government, understand that
this is a gimmick.

And again, it`s as if the Mexican government were to tell the U.S.
government you`re going to pay for all those individuals who have been
killed by firearms being illicitly sold in the United States and illicitly
trafficked over the border to feed the organized crime syndicates operating
down there. I think it`s a preposterous claim.

CAPEHART: And on that note, Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan, former Mexican
Ambassador to the United States, thanks so much for getting up and talking
with us this morning.

SARUKHAN: My pleasure, Jonathan. Thank you for having me.

CAPEHART: Still ahead, new video of a Texas college football player
minutes before he was shot and killed by a police officer.

And next, President Obama`s vacation is off to a rousing start. The
decision lawmakers are facing right now, though, could put a damper on his
summer getaway.


CAPEHART: President Obama is taking a break from diplomacy to focus on his
gulf game, playing a round of golf with comedian and Seinfeld co-creator,
Larry David. It was the first full day of the president`s summer -- is
president`s summer and working vacation in Martha`s Vineyard.

NBC senior White House correspondent, Chris Jansing, is traveling with the
Obama`s and is live now right there on your screen from Martha`s Vineyard.

CHRIS JANSING, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jonathan. A windy
Martha`s Vineyard. So, the president doesn`t have any gulf on schedule
today. It`s kind of over cast feel a little drizzly but his senior advisers
obviously are hoping this will be a real vacation. The last six here in
Martha`s Vineyard have not been.

You`ll remember last year the Ferguson, he also had ISIS, and the brutal
murder of James Foley. So, this year, the main thing on his plate will be
the Iran nuclear deal. As you well know, Chuck Schumer just before the
president came here announced that he was against the deal.

So, now, 29 U.S. nuclear scientists including five Nobel Laureates have put
out a letter supporting the president. And just before we came here, Josh
Earnest said that even though he had suggested the president was going to
lay low, there`s a possibility he could be making some calls as they look
toward that September 17 deadline for a vote on the Iran nuclear deal.

They would also like him to get some rest because he has a very busy
September coming up. In addition to that vote on the Iran nuclear deal,
Pope Francis is coming. The President of China is coming. And he also had a
big meeting of the U.N. General Assembly. He`ll be going to New York for
several days, including making a big speech.

So, even though today, he seems to be laying low at least during the day,
as I said, no golf on the schedule. He is never far away from the business
of the world and of course, many of his senior advisers are here with him,
including Susan Rice, who`s been very much involved in that Iran nuclear
deal, and Valerie Jarrett as well. Jonathan.

CAPEHART: The president leaves the White House but the White House never
leaves the president.


CAPEHART: Chris Jansing, thank you very much. While the First Family is on
its summer vacation, Congress is on its summer recess with lawmakers
pondering whether to support the Iran nuclear deal. On this very program,
three weeks ago today, Steve Kornacki asked Senator Chuck Schumer how he
was going to decide where his support for the deal lies.


CHUCK SCHUMER, NEW YORK SENATOR: The importance of it is very, very real
to me. I`m going to read it, you know, go over it with a fine tooth comb,
going to talk to people on all sides, of course, the administration. And
then because it`s such an important decision, I`m going to weigh it really


SCHUMER: That`s all I can say.


CAPEHART: Well, he finally reached that decision, with word coming
Thursday night, smack in the middle of the republican debate, that he would
not support the deal. Releasing a statement that reads in part, "I will
vote to disapprove the agreement, not because I believe war is a viable or
desirable option, nor to challenge the path of diplomacy. It`s because I
believe Iran will not change. And under this agreement, it will be able to
achieve its dual goals of eliminating sanctions while ultimately retaining
its nuclear and non-nuclear power."

Schumer is the first democrat in the Senate to oppose the deal. Will he be
the last? I had a chance to talk with Maryland Senator Ben Cardin, ranking
democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about his thoughts on
the Iran deal.

Senator Cardin, thank you for being with us this morning. Let me ask you,
Senator Schumer, of course, just announced that he opposes the Iran deal.
When do you expect to reach a decision of your own?

BEN CARDIN, MARYLAND SENATOR: Well, I`m analyzing a lot of the
information. I`m going to be meeting with Marylanders during these next few
weeks. So, I expect to take the month of August to review all the facts and
reach a decision before Congress reconvenes in September.

CAPEHART: And, Senator, does Senator Schumer`s decision affect the way
you`re going -- thinking and going about, coming to your own conclusions
about the deal?

CARDIN: Each senator is deciding what he or she thinks is in the best
interest of the country. Each is making that decision based upon the facts
and their interpretation and their analysis. So, no. It`s an individual
decision. This is a matter of conscience. This is a very consequential
vote. One that I take very seriously. I know every member of the Senate
take very seriously and we`re not going to be influenced by how other
people vote.

CAPEHART: But Senator Schumer is, he`s a leader in the democratic caucus.
Everyone has been waiting to hear from him about where he was going to fall
on this deal. I`m just wondering if now that Senator Schumer has come out
against the deal, what kind of impact that`s had on the caucus.

CARDIN: You know, I think each member of the democratic caucus understands
that each member has to make a decision based upon what that person thinks
in the best interest in the country. This is not a matter of loyalty to a
political party. This is a matter of what you think is in the best interest
of America to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear weapon state.

CAPEHART: So, you haven`t heard from any of your democratic colleagues in
the Senate post-Schumer decision expressing concern about where they should
fall on the deal?

CARDIN: No, I haven`t. I`m in contact with my colleagues. I know some are
undecided. That we have conferred just to go over different parts of the
agreement. But, no. I have no inside information on how other members are
going to vote. Spending enough time trying to figure out how I`m going to
come down on this issue.

CAPEHART: Well, one more question about Senator Schumer and his decision.
Do you think it has any kind of impact on the White House`s ability to get
the -- to get Congress to sign off on the deal?

CARDIN: No. I think each senator is going to vote what he or she thinks is
in the best interest in the country. And I know the White House is going to
work very hard so that their position prevails. But right now, I think each
senator will make that judgment and no one`s looking at how someone else is
voting from the point of view of how they`re going to vote.

CAPEHART: Well, Senator, let`s talk about your decision making process.
You said last month when the agreement was first reached that you still had
questions about the timing and the process of the deal. Have those concerns
been addressed?

CARDIN: There are issues that are involved in this agreement that give me
concern. I`ve gotten more information about it. More explanations. In some
parts, I`ve gotten some comfort level. But there still are issues that are
difficult for me to fully understand why the terms are the way that they
are. I understand in negotiations you don`t get everything you want.

CAPEHART: But, Senator, you say issues that give you concern about the
deal. Can you be more specific?

CARDIN: Well, you know, I`ve enumerated that there are issues in regards
to whether the United States will be able to impose sanctions against Iran
for non-nuclear activity such as terrorism. There are concerns as to
whether we can reconfigure the sanction regime, if Iran violates the
agreement in an effective way.

There are certainly concerns after the time limits when Iran is very close
to having the capacity to break out to a nuclear weapon, whether we have
sufficient time and sufficient opportunities to know what Iran is doing in
order to prevent them from becoming a nuclear weapons state.

So, there are some of the concerns that we`re looking at. The 24-day
restriction on some of the inspections, particularly non-declared sites, is
of concern. Having said that, there are a lot of positive parts of the
agreement. I haven`t reach decision yet.

So, I`m trying to weigh the positives and the negatives to decide which way
is the most likely to prevent Iran from ever becoming a nuclear weapon

CAPEHART: Senator, let me get your reaction to the president`s speech on
the Iran deal. On Wednesday, the president compared this deal to the war in
Iraq. And he said many of those who backed that war now want to reject this
agreement and put the Middle East on a path toward another war. Do you
think this is a fair comparison?

CARDIN: No, I think it`s not a fair comparison to compare this to the Iraq
War. I was in Congress during the Iraq at debate. And quite frankly, the
popular vote there would have been to approve the Iraq war. I voted against
it. So, in this case, public opinion, at least I find in Maryland, is
pretty divided on this issue.

So, from a popular point of view, I don`t think there`s a comparison to
Iraq. Secondly, the Iraq vote was a clear vote to send our troops into
harm`s way. And this vote, it is one to prevent Iran from becoming a
nuclear weapon state. And there is no clear path if we are unsuccessful
here or whether this agreement goes forward or not. So, I don`t think it`s
a fair comparison at all.

CAPEHART: Senator Ben Cardin, democrat of Maryland, thank you very much
for being with us.

CARDIN: My pleasure. Good talking to you.

CAPEHART: Up next, we`ll ask our panel what it thinks of Chuck Schumer`s
decision and the influence it will have on his fellow democrats.



announcement that was not -- was not particularly surprising to anybody
here at the White House, even if it was disappointing. But it doesn`t
change our confidence that we`ll be able to mobilize substantial majority
of democrats in both the House and the Senate in support of the deal, and
if necessary, to sustain the president`s veto.


CAPEHART: That was White House Press Secretary, Josh Earnest, reacting on
Friday to Chuck Schumer`s decision to oppose the Iran deal. So, I`ll ask
the question then to the panel. Just how confidence can the White House
really be without one of the most influential members of Congress, one of
the most influential Jewish members of Congress who`s also one of the top
leaders in the Senate? How confident can the white House be?

HUEY-BURNS: Well, if Chuck Schumer started to whip votes against this, I
think there would be a lot of concern. And so, understanding that he`s
getting the party to, you know, roundly reject this, but this was a
personal decision.

But the fact that he is assuming leadership in about a year and a half is
critical. But It`s not only Schumer. You have members in the House
representing prominently Jewish constituencies who serve on the important
panels, you know, that deal with this. So, that`s important to consider

WALSH: Although Nancy Pelosi would be whipping strongly for the deal. So,
I think the thing that was tough with Schumer, you know, when it first came
out on debate night, so clearly he was hoping...

CAPEHART: In the middle of debate night.

WALSH: Yes. He really wanted a lot of attention. But anyway, you know, the
first reassuring things I heard, he`s not going to whip votes, this
probably means they do have the votes. Subsequently, though, you know, he
wrote a post on medium and he really went into detail about his
reservations. What he thinks is wrong with the deal. He`s been a little bit
vocal about what those are. So, he hasn`t faded away, though, he says he`s
not whipping votes. I think there is -- I think there is concern.

CAPEHART: You know, Joan, were we on the show at the same time when Steve
have showed the interview with...

WALSH: Yes, we were.

CAPEHART: And, you know, it`s interesting, because I thought, you know,
hey, maybe Chuck Schumer will come out against it. And I was smacked down
immediately. And Steve Kornacki was the one who predicted what actually
happen, and that Chuck Schumer will come out against the deal, he will do
it in a way that so low key, that it will get no attention.

So, when that tweet came out saying that, you know, Chuck Schumer oppose
the deal, smacked in the middle of one of the most rockiest political
debate we`ve seen in the long time. And, you know, to your point, you know,
clearly, he`s not going to whip votes against it, then he gives at least
some cover to some democrats who want to vote for this deal, but are there
any? With the exception of Bernie Sanders who came out in support of the

HUEY-BURNS: Well, Senator Levin I think was, you know, he came out in
support of it early on. I think...


WALSH: Senator Durbin, Senator Harkin -- New York`s other senator, Senator
Gillibrand. I mean, I don`t know how many votes he takes with him. But, you
know, listening to Ben Cardin talk to you I would have some worries if I
were the White House. He didn`t sound as for the deal as I thought he might

HUEY-BURNS: And you have to think about, you know, these members are now
home on recess. And just the air waves are going to be filled with that as
we`ve already seen them constituent -- this is something that is very, you
know, immediate. And, that constituents have a very visceral reaction to
this. We`ve seen it on the republican debate stage. On the campaign trail,
uniformly opposed to it. So, there is a lot of pressure there I think.

AVELLA: And it`s really more than just this issue. I think it is an
insight into what`s going to happen in the democratic caucus once he
becomes his leaders. That only a big issue that we`re about to face, he`s
going to vote against his caucus but not actually try to lead them. And
then in two years, he`s going to be the democratic leader. What other
issues is he going to be against them, and then not actually be leading his
caucus to try to go his way?

CAPEHART: Well, that`s the interesting question now. So, Chuck Schumer
studies the deal, makes a principle stand against the deal, yet, he`s not
quite the leader in the Senate of the democrats. And now there`s been just
a little bit of chatter as to whether that`s actually going to happen. How
much has Chuck Schumer imperiled his future leadership post by coming out
against the White House on this?

WALSH: There`s talk now. There wasn`t talked about trying to find a
challenger for him. It was seen -- it was kind of a done deal. There`s
talk. The liberal advocacy groups are very upset. The progressive advocacy
groups, the peace groups, are really upset. I don`t know that, you know,
this makes Senator Durbin think, hey, maybe I do want to be leader. I don`t
know that it makes anybody challenge him. But, there`s a conversation now
that had been muted entirely. I don`t know where it goes.

HUEY-BURNS: And think about the composition of the caucus now after the
past election. I mean, you have a lot of moderate democrats who are gone.

WALSH: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: A lot of democrats who had made, you know, foreign policy a
big issue. So, the caucus is, you know, arguably more progressive than it
has been in the past.


HUEY-BURNS: You have several key elections coming up in 2014 -- in 2016,
sorry, that will, you know...

WALSH: Could make it more so.

HUEY-BURNS: Exactly.

CAPEHART: So, the president made a comparison of this deal to the war in
Iraq in a very controversial terms for a lot of people. Was that fair?

WALSH: I -- yes. You gave me -- you gave me the opening. Yes, it was
absolutely fair. In the sense that, first of all, the neocons and the hawks
who pedaled that war to us are very much against this deal. And that
they`re really isn`t a path -- I`m not saying that anyone who opposes the
deal wants war, although some people do.

There is no credible path that really averts war without this deal. So, I
think it`s perfectly fine to say look at the caucus behind -- that`s really
pushing this the hardest. They were in charge of getting us into the Iraq

HUEY-BURNS: Although I don`t think the party -- even though I know more
about this than I do. But I don`t think the party is concerned about that
at all. I mean, there is -- even Rand Paul has come out in opposition to

WALSH: Right.

HUEY-BURNS: So, that kind of speaks to where the party is on this issue. I
mean, they`re not going to -- I think that it more, you know, energizes
them more.

CAPEHART: Well, I want to move on to other happier topics on the other
side of the break. Still ahead, puppy love. A heroic service dog phones for
help. Seriously. Stay with us.


CAPEHART: This morning, we`re getting new details about the deadly police
shooting of a college football player in Texas. Christian Taylor was shot
and killed early Friday morning at an auto dealership in Arlington, near
Dallas. NBC`s Mark Potter has the latest.

MARK POTTER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: in a security camera video from outside a
car dealership in Arlington, Texas, shooting victim Christian Taylor can be
seen jumping on a vehicle and breaking out the windshield, which police say
he did right before his fatal encounter with officers.

Later on the tape, he can be seen driving his vehicle through a locked gate
there, and then in the distance driving through a glass door onto the
showroom floor.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect is still inside on the property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 14, can they give us any description of what type of
vehicle he might be crawling into?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He broke into possibly a gray- colored Ford Mustang.


POTTER: Shortly afterward, police can be seen arriving at the dealership,
with Taylor roaming inside the building, police say, they told him to lie
on the ground, but he refused.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got shots fired.

WILL JOHNSON, ARLINGTON POLICE CHIEF: During this arrest, there was a
confrontation between officers and Mr. Taylor which led Officer Brad Miller
to discharge his weapon striking Mr. Taylor. Four rounds were fired during
this incident.


POTTER: police say 19-year-old Taylor, a football player at Angelo State
University, died at the scene. He was not carrying a weapon. The officer,
49-year-old, Brad Miller, just graduated from the police academy in March
and was still being supervised by a training officer.

Police say, the tales of the confrontation with Taylor and the shooting are
still being gathered. The FBI has been asked to join the investigation.


JOHNSON: Our pledge is to provide these answers in the most thorough and
expeditious manner possible.


POTTER: Taylor`s family, which held a vigil Saturday night, questions
whether he actually had to be killed.


ADRIAN TAYLOR, CHRISTIAN TAYLOR`S BROTHER: He was by himself and unarmed.
I just think there would have been other methods or manners that you could
have done to, you know, take him down or whatever.


POTTER: Police say they await autopsy and toxicology reports, and will be
very public with their findings. For Today, Mark Potter, NBC News.

CAPEHART: Up next, why shopping at Target may soon be a whole new


CAPEHART: There`s a lot going on still this morning. So, let`s get caught
up on some of the other headlines making news with the panels. Do I have
the right thing? OK. So, NBC Philadelphia has this great service dog saves
blind owner`s life during a house fire.

When Maria Cologne woke at the smell of smoke she shouted the emergency
word "danger" to her golden retriever named Yolanda, prompting the dog to
dial 911 on a specialized phone. I mean, this is incredible. I wish we had
a picture of that phone. I wish I`ve seen a picture of the phone, but
that`s just incredible to me. Great story.

WALSH: Yes. Sadie, my dog, if you`re watching, I`ll teach you that when I
get home. So.

CAPEHART: I`m more of a cat person than a dog person.


WALSH: Cats are never going to do that for you. They`re just going to walk

CAPEHART: Our friends, Mark and Brian, have this wonderful golden
retriever named Harry, who is winning me over to dogs because it`s just
like this little man that walks around.

During the break, you know, you notice when we`ve been talking fashion
during the break, and so, this is appropriate from The Huffington Post,
"These jeans will charge your iPhone while it sits in your pocket." I can`t
believe it.

The Los Angeles company Joe`s jeans have a new denim line with special
pockets for your phone, a battery pack and a hidden cord. The jeans will
run $189 plus another 50 bucks for the battery pack. And what you`re
looking at on the screen is a placemat on the dining room table where you
can put your phone.

HUEY-BURNS: What? How do you wash these jeans?

CAPEHART: I mean, that`s a good...

WALSH: What a question.

AVELLA: Well, now the jean shorts or back will be become in baggy and non-
baggy version.

WALSH: Where`s the wire go?

CAPEHART: I`m on records as being against some shorts. I`m on record as
being against these jeans.

HUEY-BURNS: I have to look at that.

CAPEHART: And I`m telling you right now, jeans in the back pocket ruin the
line, just put it out there and we have to get one more in, another sort of
fashion-related topic.

Target is going to phase out gender-based signs. So, signs in the kids
bedding area, for example, will no longer feature suggestions for boys or
girls, just kids, and in the toy aisles there are plans to remove the pink,
blue, yellow, and green paper on the back walls of the stores. Store
shelves that now used to reference gender. I mean, that`s -- I think that`s
a terrific thing.

WALSH: It`s great. Yes. At first I was worried they were talking about
clothes. And I was like, really? I would kind of like to know which
department I`m shopping in. But toys, bedding, these things where girls
have to have the pink and boys get the blue and the girls don`t get the
rough toys -- yes, it`s long past due.



HUEY-BURNS: How many other businesses as well take this approach? I mean,
Target has been...


WALSH: Target is big.

HUEY-BURNS: ... yes, and big, and out there, you know, and publicly
everybody, you know, they`ve been good at advertising and marketing.

CAPEHART: Yes. You hear that at Walmart and Costco?

AVELLA: As a father of a 17-month-old, I want her to get to play with all
the fun toys out there.

WALSH: Definitely.

CAPEHART: That`s great. And on that note, thank you to the panel, Caitlyn
Huey-Burns, David Avella, and Joan Walsh. And thank you for getting up with
us today. Up next is Melissa Harris-Perry, she has an exclusive interview
with Attorney General Loretta Lynch. So, stay tuned. And have a great


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