Skip navigation

'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Monday, August 10th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Monday show

  Most Popular
Most viewed

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: August 10, 2015
Guest: Dorian Warren, Christina Bellantoni, Matt Lewis, Philip Rucker,
Nicholas Confessore

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Good evening Ari, thank you very
much. Tonight, Megyn Kelly had something to say about Donald Trump after
everything that he had to say about her this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I`m not sure I even quite know
where to start with what`s been going on with the Trump campaign.

DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER,
TRUMP ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: She should really be apologizing to me, you
want to know the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a fire storm over Donald Trump`s comments about
Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly.

TRUMP: The fact is, she asked me a very inappropriate question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a man that`s not smart enough to be president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How were the women running for president responding?

CARLY FIORINA, FORMER BUSINESS EXECUTIVE: They were completely
inappropriate and offensive comments, period.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I thought what he said was
offensive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And on yesterday`s "Meet the Press", Trump told Chuck
Todd that it`s hard for women to attack his looks, because, quote --

TRUMP: And of course it`s very hard for them to attack me on looks because
I`m so good-looking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misogyny is a terrible campaign strategy.

TRUMP: I will be phenomenal to the women, I mean I want to help women.

JOHN OLIVER, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: The entire debate was basically a
two-hour circus side show.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: You know, for a lot of us, it`s like
watching a car accident instead of focusing on the direction we should be
heading.

OLIVER: He was the focus of everyone`s attention.

CLINTON: I think he`s having the time of his life, being up on that stage,
saying whatever he wants to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s awfully early to be worried about this
kind of fluff with Donald Trump --

OLIVER: There will be actual babies born on election day 2016 whose
parents haven`t even met yet!

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s version of a peace offering to Megyn Kelly came
today in the form of a starring role in a vying video attacking Jeb Bush
that the Trump campaign released this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE HENRY WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Read my
lips --

(CHEERS)

No new taxes.

GEORGE WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those weapons
of mass destruction, they`ve got to be somewhere.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: Would you have authorized the invasion?

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I would have. You know, my brother did
this wrong, my dad did this wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump has spent days now relentlessly complaining about
this question posed by Megyn Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is, you speak
your mind and you don`t use a politician`s filter. However, that is not
without its down sides in particular when it comes to women.

You call women, you don`t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting
animals. Your Twitter account --

TRUMP: Only Rosie O`Donnell --

(CHEERS)

(APPLAUSE)

KELLY: No, it wasn`t.

(CHEERS)

Your Twitter account --

TRUMP: Thank you.

KELLY: For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O`Donnell --

TRUMP: Yes, I`m sure it was.

KELLY: Your Twitter account has several disparaging comments about women`s
looks. You once told a contestant on "Celebrity Apprentice", it would be a
pretty picture to see her on her knees.

Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as
president? And how will you answer the charge from Hillary Clinton who is
likely to be the Democratic nominee that you are part of the war on women?

TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically
correct. I`ve been --

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Twenty four hours later, Donald Trump offered this description
of what you just saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous
questions, and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, it was --

TRUMP: You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes,
blood coming out of her -- wherever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump then spent the weekend refusing to apologize for
what everyone knew he meant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I wake up and I hear that, you know, somebody took it as something
else. Only a deviant would think that, Chuck, I wouldn`t -- I didn`t even
think that. I -- who would think it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump was still at it this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She got very angry during this question because of that, because
she couldn`t even finish the rest of the question because the crowd went
wild.

And I -- in discussing it later, I said blood was -- she was so angry that
blood was coming out of her eyes, blood was coming out of her -- and then I
didn`t even finish the answer because I wanted to get on to the next point.

But I was referring to -- or if I finish it, I was going to say, is or
does, because that is a common statement --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you would --

TRUMP: Where blood is pouring out of your ears --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes --

TRUMP: It`s a very common statement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me just ask you, just to clarify. If someone
made such a comment about a female journalist, suggesting that they were on
their menstrual cycle --

TRUMP: That would be inappropriate --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would be class list and juvenile and over the --

TRUMP: That would be --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Line, right? --

TRUMP: Inappropriate, but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes --

TRUMP: I didn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: As the media world was relishing a Donald Trump war with his
former friends at "Fox News", Donald Trump tweeted today that the chairman
of "Fox News" called him to make peace.

"Roger Ailes just called, he is a great guy and assures me that Trump will
be treated fairly on "Fox News". His word is always good. Tonight Roger
Ailes released a statement with his version of the phone call.

"Donald Trump and I spoke today, we discussed our concerns and I again
expressed my confidence in Megyn Kelly, she is a brilliant journalist and I
support her 100 percent.

I assured him that we will continue to cover this campaign with fairness
and balance. We had a blunt but cordial conversation and the air has been
cleared."

Joining us now, Matt Lewis, a senior contributor for "The Daily Caller" and
a columnist for "The Week".

Philip Rucker, a national political reporter for "The Washington Post" and
Christina Bellantoni, an assistant managing editor for politics at the "Los
Angeles Times".

Christina, I just want to point out a couple of things, just matters of
fact, that Donald Trump has not been challenged on in any of his rants
against Megyn Kelly.

Fact number one, Megyn Kelly was not even slightly angry, not slightly
angry, and he speeds that description past all of his interviewers when
he`s getting into the blood coming out of her eyes stuff.

With this -- with this thing about her being angry, and you can see in the
video, she wasn`t angry at all in asking that question.

CHRISTINA BELLANTONI, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR FOR POLITICS, LOS ANGELES
TIMES: Yes, I think exactly right. I actually -- I think she did a very
good job at the debate.

And really, the entire exchange, Trump`s answer was clearly well received
by the crowd and probably had that been the end of it we wouldn`t be
talking about it right now, we`d be talking about something else.

But instead, this was allowed to become this weird fight that makes him
look pretty bad in the eyes of not just women but in the eyes of a lot of
people who are going to be voting, and it`s become this multiple story that
as we heard in your intro.

All of the candidates are being forced to respond to, but yes, she didn`t
seem mad at all. She asked a measured question and she kept going after
the crowd was cheering, and he answered it.

And really, what we should be talking about are what the candidates would
do for America, they all want to be president, that`s the more important
story.

O`DONNELL: Well, Megyn Kelly wisely let the whole thing bubble up all
weekend without giving a hint of what she thought about it until her show
went on the air tonight, and here is what she said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Trump who is the frontrunner will not apologize, and I certainly
will not apologize for doing good journalism. So I`ll continue doing my
job without fear or favor.

And Mr. Trump, I expect will continue with what has been a successful
campaign thus far. This is a tough business, and it`s time now to move
forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Matt Lewis, it is pretty easy to take the high road against
Donald Trump. Any road is higher than the road Donald Trump will take.

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY CALLER & COLUMNIST, THE WEEK:
Yes, I think that`s right.

And look, this is a very mutually beneficial relationship. I`m not saying
that Megyn Kelly set this up or wanted it to go down like this.

But this is a win-win I think for now at least. Donald Trump loves
attention, loves publicity, he has dominated the conversation.

Doesn`t really care if it`s good or bad if any, all publicity is good for
Donald Trump. And I think Megyn Kelly, her name is out there, she`s
getting a lot of attention and buzz, and frankly, I think she`s being
regarded deservedly as a really top-notch journalist.

You know, going into a Republican debate, it would have been easy to say
"Fox News" is just going to throw softballs to these Republicans.

Well, they asked a lot of tough questions, not just to Donald Trump, and I
think Megyn Kelly showed that she is really tough and she`s a really good
journalist.

And I think that, you know, frankly, the phone call with Roger Ailes is a
product of the fact that it`s mutually beneficial, "Fox" needs Trump and
Trump needs "Fox News".

O`DONNELL: Yes, they were never going to get that TV audience that they
got Thursday night without Donald Trump in there.

Another thing Donald Trump is very angry about is Frank Luntz focus group
on "Fox News" after the debate. Let`s take a look at that and we can see
why Donald Trump is so upset with him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK LUNTZ, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: When you walked in here, how many of
you had a positive opinion of Donald Trump? Raise your hand, overall. How
many of you have a positive opinion of him now?

Who is negative towards Trump when you walked in here? Who is negative now?
What happened? You were Trump supporter when you walked in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Frank, you know what happened? I liked him when I
came in here because he wasn`t a politician. But right now, he skirted
around questions better than a lifelong politician ever had.

(LAUGHTER)

LUNTZ: Anthony, what was your reaction to Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really expecting him to do a lot better, but he
just crashed and burned. He was mean, he was angry, he had no specifics,
he was bombastic --

LUNTZ: Eli, you walked in here a Trump supporter, what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, he just let me down. I just expected him to
rise to the occasion and look presidential. He didn`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And Philip Rucker, we have some very hastily done surveys that
aren`t calling themselves polls that don`t indicate any real movement for
Trump in the polls, up or down.

As a result of this, it seems like it will take a while before we know what
the effect of that debate is.

PHILLIP RUCKER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: That`s
right, it will. And you know, the key, I think for Donald Trump is
longevity and durability.

Can he take this kind of Summer fling, if you will, where he is really
energized a core part of the Republican Party and translate that over the
next several months into next year into a winning coalition to take the
nomination and ultimately the presidency.

At this point, a lot of people are doubting that he can, and we`re going to
have to see over the next couple of weeks and into the Fall whether he`s
able to do that.

O`DONNELL: Well, he can certainly keep his campaign afloat financially for
as long as he feels like it. But --

RUCKER: That`s right --

O`DONNELL: Philip Rucker, you`re breaking some news tonight on another
Republican candidate who is in serious trouble financially.

RUCKER: That`s right. Former Texas Governor Rick Perry has stopped paying
all of his campaign staff, that`s at national headquarters in Austin as
well as in the early primary and caucus states.

The money is running dry in that campaign. That said, there is a Perry
Super PAC that has about $17 million and they`re prepared to fund that
effort aggressively and try to promote Perry as best as they can, but it
will be very difficult for the Perry campaign going forward.

O`DONNELL: How much money has the Perry campaign burned through? And what
have they used it for? It`s a little too early to be buying TV ads, isn`t
it?

RUCKER: They`re not buying TV ads. But they didn`t raise a lot of money
in that second quarter. This is the period when Jeb Bush was raising, you
know, double digits in the millions.

Rick Perry only had about a million dollars and he had about $800,000 cash
on hand as of the end of June.

At this point, I think they`re spending their money on literally airplanes
and hotel rooms and food, getting the candidate to appearances.

They really want to try to get him on the big debate stage next month at
Simi Valley at the Reagan Foundation Library, it`s unclear if he`ll make
that jump.

He needs a push in the polls, and I think the Super PAC will probably step
up perhaps with some more advertising to try to -- to ensure that he rises
in the polls and makes that debate stage.

O`DONNELL: Philip Rucker, thank you for that breaking news report tonight
--

RUCKER: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Really appreciate it, thank you. Coming up, a little audience
participation game involving you and Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Time for tonight`s episode of questions for Donald Trump. The
next Republican debate is just five weeks or so away.

So let`s all help those debate moderators by coming up with questions for
Donald Trump. You can tweet your questions to me @Lawrence or @the last
word using the hash tag "questions for Trump".

You can also post them onto our Facebook page, @facebook.com/the last word.
Now, here is my suggestion for questions for Donald Trump.

If you`ve watched him handling questions, you should know this, you should
know this by now. Do not ask Donald Trump broad open-ended questions.

The answers will go on forever. Always use a Trump concept and Trump words
in a question to Donald Trump.

That means you actually have to listen to Donald Trump which is something
that many TV interviewers of Donald Trump forget to do.

So when Donald Trump says he wants to make America great again, a good
question for Donald is when was the last time America was great?

You see what that question does? It forces Donald to give us a certain kind
of specificity about America`s greatness like actually attaching dates to
it.

Now Donald is not going to say that America was great at any point during
the Obama administration, so that sets the clock back to at least the
George W. Bush administration.

But that would include the Iraq war which Donald says he was opposed to, so
he is not going to want to pick Bush years.

And he certainly won`t want to pick the 1990s even though the economy was
great because Hillary Clinton`s husband was president then. And so, you
can see it`s a really fun question for Donald Trump.

Will he have to go back to the Eisenhower administration? I don`t know.
So, you get the idea. Now, to tonight`s question for Donald Trump, and it
is based on what he said in the debate when he was asked how he changed his
mind from being a pro-choice supporter of Roe versus Wade to being a
classic Republican opponent of abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was
going to be aborted, and it wasn`t aborted, and that child today is a total
superstar, a great child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: So tonight`s question to Donald Trump is, what if the child did
not become a total superstar? Would you think maybe your friends should
have ended that pregnancy?

Would you still be a supporter of abortion rights?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: A new Royers thing, well, maybe a poll or maybe a survey, it`s
kind of hard to describe, taken after Thursday`s Republican debate, finds
Donald Trump still on top, 24 percent of Republican voters say they would
vote for Donald Trump.

Jeb Bush comes in second with 12 percent, Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, Ben
Carson get 8, Scott Walker 7, Carly Fiorina breaks into the top ten, coming
in at 6 percent.

Ted Cruz gets 5, John Kasich hangs in there with 4 percent and Rand Paul,
Lindsey Graham come in at 3 percent.

An "Nbc News" survey finds that Donald Trump had the worst performance in
the debate with 29 percent saying Trump did the worst, 14 percent say Rand
Paul was worst.

Jeb Bush was worst according to 11 percent in that survey. That same
survey finds Carly Fiorina won the debate with 22 percent, saying she
performed best.

Eighteen percent say Donald Trump performed best, Marco Rubio, 13 percent
say he was best, Ted Cruz, 12 percent say he did the best job.

Joining us now, Nicholas Confessore, a political reporter for the "New York
Times". Nick, we`re watching a lot of messy data come out in these things
that they`re calling surveys and one of them describes not what they call a
margin of error but some other thing that I think they used a physics term
to describe just how wrong --

(LAUGHTER)

It might be. But it seems like this debate, it`s going to take at least a
week to settle into the polling consciousness out there.

NICHOLAS CONFESSORE, POLITICAL REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Or weeks, right -
-

O`DONNELL: Yes, or possibly --

CONFESSORE: I mean --

LEWIS: Yes --

CONFESSORE: It was a spectacle.

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: I mean, it was a lot to take in --

O`DONNELL: Like nothing we`ve ever seen.

CONFESSORE: Yes, and look --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: I think, you know, Trump, he resets the algorithm for this
whole campaign. If your goal was to come in and be the straight-talking
blunt guy like Chris Christie, you can`t do that with Donald Trump on the
same stage.

Because you can`t out blunt him and out-talk him. So, I think everyone is
kind of adjusting and calibrating and some candidates like Rand Paul and
Fiorina are trying to get in there and kind of ride his coattails as the
Trump critic.

So, it will be well.

O`DONNELL: I spent Friday afternoon driving up the Hudson River to the
northwest corner of Massachusetts to Williamstown, which meant I got to
listen to Rush Limbaugh for almost the entire three hours.

And that host and that audience declared all of the Republicans in effect
to be losers of this debate. Let`s listen to one sample.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tuned into the debate and I had to check the channel
because I thought I was watching Msnbc. The moderators methodically
torpedoed each candidate with Donald Trump being the biggest target.

I have lost all respect for Fox News.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: Yes, you know, I -- you`re not the first I`ve
heard this stuff from, beginning last night. And it is frustrating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Matt Lewis, that`s the way the day went in conservative talk-
radio after the debate. They just felt that "Fox News" bombed all of those
candidates.

LEWIS: Well, I tell you, it`s an interesting phenomenon because, you know,
working at "The Daily Caller", I have seen this for years, where there is
an assumption because conservatives have for a long time lived in a hostile
media environment where there is a mainstream media.

The lame stream media and there was this filter and it seemed like
conservatives couldn`t get a fair shake.

Then you have alternative media, new media rise, talk-radio, cable news,
"Fox", and there is an assumption I think that you`re supposed to carry the
water for Republicans.

And you`re supposed to just go easy on them. And I give "Fox News" credit,
I think that they asked some very tough questions, not just of Donald
Trump.

And if there is an expectation that they`re supposed to just be there, you
know, why are you so awesome to Donald Trump? I think that`s just a
misunderstanding of the purpose of journalism.

You know, look, if you work at "The Daily Caller", let`s say, you might say
it`s a center-right journalistic outfit. But it`s not an activist
organization, our job is not to help elect Republicans.

There are other people that do that. We have a world view that`s a
conservative world view. I`m not hostile to people who are pro life or
anti-tax.

But it doesn`t mean that we`re going to throw softballs, and I think that
maybe that`s what some folks were hoping --

BELLANTONI: But --

LEWIS: This would be.

BELLANTONI: These numbers --

O`DONNELL: And Christina, I want to get to a point where what I was
hearing on talk-radio on conservative talk-radio Friday afternoon, I also
listened to the "Howie Carr Show", a Boston show which was also great.

It`s a -- it`s a more reasonable version of Rush, I guess is the way I
describe it. But they all agreed that asking if you would support the
Republican nominee was a tough question in the history of Republican
debates that has never before been considered a tough question.

(LAUGHTER)

BELLANTONI: Yes, you know, part of -- there are two things going on here.
I think all of these numbers really illustrate how difficult it is to have
so many candidates on one stage.

I mean, you can`t say that Carly Fiorina won a debate which she actually
wasn`t there. She was on, you know, I`m out here on the West Coast now,
she was on at 2:00 p.m. out here.

So, that`s a whole bunch of people that didn`t get an opportunity to tune
in and you -- and you can`t measure her against the candidates who played
on the primetime stage.

But then there is also -- think about how many millions of people tuned
into that debate for, you know, Donald Trump reasons, but also because
they`re interested in this.

They`re not watching the post commentary, they`re not watching, you know,
or listening to Rush Limbaugh or kind of following the machinations after
the debate.

They might not check in again for another 37 days or the next debate or
even later. And so that`s one reason why those numbers haven`t been
reflected.

I mean, that is not a tough question at all to ask if you`re going to
support the Republican nominee. Democratic candidates have been asked that
question on debate stage before --

LEWIS: And look --

BELLANTONI: As well.

CONFESSORE: Yes --

LEWIS: Lawrence, I also want to say there`s an assumption that it was just
Donald Trump because he is the one complaining and whining about.

I mean, Jeb Bush had to answer tough questions about common core and
immigration reform, questions that cut against him in a primary.

Marco Rubio was asked -- essentially, he had to come out and say he has no
exceptions on the abortion issue, which I think it really hurt him in the
general election.

So, a lot of them were put to the test, and the fact is, Donald Trump
should be asked tough questions. He -- as Rand Paul has pointed out and
others, Donald Trump is a liberal.

I mean, he supported single payer not that long ago. And in fact, in the
debate said that like 15 years ago, he would have supported it in America.

So, I think it`s --

(CROSSTALK)

O`DONNELL: Come on, Matt, let -- Matt, let bygones be bygones, he was a
liberal. Let`s listen to what Charles --

CONFESSORE: Right --

O`DONNELL: What Charles Krauthammer said tonight on "Fox" to Bret Baier
about why Bret Baier and the moderators are being attacked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, COLUMNIST: And I think one of the reasons that at the
end of the debate, Donald the Trump decided that he would make this into a
war on the moderators, and the wars on "Fox", is because I think he thinks
he lost.

If you win a debate, you don`t start a war attacking the moderators.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Nick, some very -- some very compelling logic there.

CONFESSORE: I mean, I`ve -- you know, I`ve seen this guy`s Twitter feed,
Donald Trump`s --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: Twitter feed. Right, he --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: Attacks everybody all the time for everything.

O`DONNELL: Right --

CONFESSORE: That`s his only mode --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: Attack.

O`DONNELL: Yes --

CONFESSORE: I actually think, look, I think Rush has a small point on this
by the way, that you know, hard questions were asked of all the candidates.

It was a great debate, a great moderation. But the follow ups and the
circling back that I felt like were directed mostly at Trump.

It seemed like they came kind of loaded for a bear with Trump, to box him
in and pin him down on some key things.

It wasn`t wrong to do, but I can see why you would think that there was a
little bit of engender there.

O`DONNELL: Well, Matt Lewis, isn`t that the normal treatment of the
frontrunner? When you have that big group up there that you can direct
questions at.

One reason why the frontrunner is placed in the middle is because that`s
who people want to hear the most from.

LEWIS: That`s exactly what I was going to say. I think that, you know,
when much is given, much is expected, you know. And I think that Donald
Trump is in first place, in a commanding lead in many cases.

So, it makes sense that he would get a lot more questions, and frankly,
because he is spoken in these, you know, generalities, also of course he
would get the follow-up questions -- as you said, Lawrence, earlier,
pinning him down on some specifics.

I think Chris Wallace specifically did a good job on that. Let me also say
something about Rush Limbaugh. Because I`m -- I am, you know, I`m writing
a book right now about the conservative movement.

And, you know, you look back at someone like William F. Buckley for -- who
really sort of policed the far right, he was able to excommunicate fringe
elements behind Rand, the John Birch Society to call them out to write them
out of the movement.

And Eric Erikson, I give him a lot of credit at red state for standing up
and saying that what Donald Trump said is inappropriate. He wasn`t -- he
was, you know, kicked out of the red state gathering.

And I wish that Rush Limbaugh would exercise that same sort of moral
authority. He has a huge audience, a huge megaphone, if Rush Limbaugh
stood up to Donald Trump, it would make a big difference.

But of course, he`s doing the opposite.

O`DONNELL: Yes --

BELLANTONI: And --

O`DONNELL: And before we go, can I just make one point about this, that
Donald Trump got a big cheer in front of that audience when he said, I only
said this about Rosie O`Donnell.

And none of the people who`ve been interviewing Donald Trump when he steam-
rolled past him on this, and he says -- I don`t know what he said about --
and I got a big laugh about Rosie O`Donnell.

You know, when did we decide as a society that it`s OK to use these words
in relation to one person --

BELLANTONI: Yes, there you are --

O`DONNELL: That you can call this one --

BELLANTONI: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Person these words. And Christina, before we go, the truth of
the matter is he did not reserve those words for Rosie O`Donnell.

He used the word dog for someone else and a person we all know, whose name
I won`t drag into this mud.

But the idea that everyone is letting past in these interviews of Donald
Trump that -- well, yes, you can say that about Rosie O`Donnell and you can
laugh about that.

BELLANTONI: Yes -- no, it`s -- you shouldn`t call anyone names. I mean
I`ve said this about Trump before, all right, you know, he -- as Nick
points out, like he goes after people on his Twitter feed all the time.

He`s attacked every D.C. journalist we all know. It`s not a good way to
run a campaign and it`s -- but it`s not what the voters are paying
attention to.

They just look at it in the broad brush of, oh, he`s not politically
correct and that`s why, you know, as they said earlier, had he just left it
there, it might have been a successful debate for him.

O`DONNELL: Yes, and we -- I am just for the record not related to Rosie
O`Donnell as far as I know, and I wish --

(LAUGHTER)

You know, I saw somewhere over the weekend one conservative commentator,
either in a tweet or somewhere say, hey, you can`t say this about Rosie
O`Donnell.

And I wish I knew -- I remembered who that was because I`d like to commend
that person for doing it. Matt Lewis, thank you very much for joining --

LEWIS: Thank you --

O`DONNELL: Us tonight, really appreciate it. Coming up, Donald Trump may
be leading the Republican pack, but he is losing to Hillary Clinton and
he`s losing to Bernie Sanders.

And Bernie Sanders is drawing way bigger crowds than Donald Trump could
ever imagine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL" HOST: Protests,
dozens of arrest and gunfire broke out in Ferguson, Missouri on Sunday
night.

Demonstrations marking one year since Michael Brown`s death turned violent
just before midnight last night. A man was wounded after police say he
open fire on officers.

Today, members of the Black Lives Matter movement occupied a public square
outside the Federal Court House in Saint Louis during a peaceful act of
civil disobedience. Nearly 60 people were arrested and authorities
declared a state of emergency in Saint Louis County.

Protesters also blocked Interstate 70 in both directions for about half an
hour this evening stopping rush hour traffic. Police made several arrests
there as well.

For more, I`m joined by MSNBC`s Tyrmaine Lee with his live in Ferguson
tonight. Tyramine, what`s the situation there?

TYRMAINE LEE, MSNBC REPORTER: I`ll tell you what, Lawrence. It`s almost as
if we`ve lived this day once, we lived it a thousand times. Almost a year
to the day when I was talking to you and there was tear gas in the air and
there was anger and all these passion. Here we are again, a year later,
you`ll see dozens of people already if not a hundred or so gathered on West
Florissant.

There`s this rage of -- there`s range of emotions from coming off of last
night`s violence, which really disrupted what had been, you know, a
peaceful weekend of organizing and protesting.

Folks tell me they are equally sad, and frustrated, and angry because it
seems like every time they take a few steps forward, something happens to
draw them a step or two back. And what sparked what they call, you know,
the Ferguson uprising, was sparked by violence and bloodshed.

And again, more violence and bloodshed disrupted the calm and peace that
they worked so hard to forge. I`m not -- as you mentioned, the county
executive had put in place a state of emergency for tonight. And so, what
will that mean?

Chief Jon Belmar who was the Chief of the County Police was already kind of
behind the scenes pulling the strings anyway because Ferguson as an interim
police chief was only weeks on the job. But what would that mean tonight?

Folks say that they`re concerned that after last night`s shooting that
perhaps they`ll be embolden or empowered. And we`ve seen what happens when
the police come out with a certain show of force. But on the same token,
if last night was illustrated anything at all, it`s again, how tenuous the
situation can be here.

When you see those videos of the repeated gunfire and you see people
running in fear and screaming, then you see the image of that -- the young
man, 18 year old, Tyrone Harris, blooded on the ground. But then, again,
it all began with a skirmish between two groups and the fear. And that`s,
again, for the last year, that`s what we`ve been dealing here in Ferguson.

O`DONNELL: And, Trymaine, in this state of emergency tonight, is there any
curfew there?

LEE: There`s no curfew as of yet and that`s what a lot of people are
talking about. Is this the first step to get us back to that place where
there had been a curfew? As of right now, no, and as the sun is falling,
you know, more people are out there gathering with Florissant.

I was there about 10 minutes ago and there are group of people had climbed
up on top of the Ponderosa building. A bunch of young guys about seven or
eight. Just, you know, half a block down, dozens of officers. So they`re
all kind of preparing for whatever may come.

O`DONNELL: And Trymaine Lee reporting from Ferguson, Missouri tonight.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight, Trymaine.

Coming up, Hillary Clinton explains why she went to Donald Trump`s wedding.
And Bernie Sanders is drawing crowds and on the campaign trail, big crowds
and even bigger poll numbers than Donald Trump in New Hampshire.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump is making the most noise in the presidential
campaign, but Bernie Sanders continues to draw the biggest crowds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Whoa.

We began this campaign over 3.5 months ago and the momentum as you can see
tonight has been nothing less than extraordinary. Thank you for being
here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: That was a crowd of well over 20,000 who gathered to hear
Bernie Sanders yesterday. That set the record for the largest political
audience for the 2016 Presidential Contest.

Senator Sanders broke his own record set just a day earlier when 15,000
people showed up to his rally in Seattle. That event came just hours after
Senator Sanders left another stage in Seattle where protesters from the
Black Lives Matter Movement interrupted his speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARISA JANAE JOHNSON, BLACK LIVES MATTER: I was going to tell Bernie how
racist this city is filled with it`s progressives but already did it for
me. Right now, we are going to honor this space and we are going to honor
the memory of Michael Brown and honor all of the Black lives lost this
year. And we`re going to honor the fact that I`ll have to fight through
all these people to say, "My life matters."

O`DONNELL: Senator Sanders is at a campaign rally in Los Angeles at this
hour, at the 17,000-seat Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena.

Joining us now, Dorian Warren MSNBC Contributor and the host of "Nerding
Out" on shift fly MSNBC. Dorian, your reaction to the moment in Seattle
where Black Lives Matter takes over the stage.

DORIAN WARREN, "NERDING OUT" HOST: My reaction is that the disruption
concerning in that roots and then in Seattle is working and here`s why.
The Sanders campaign just released a new policy platform that talks about
the four kinds of violence inflicted on black and brown communities.
Physical, political, economical and legal I think are the four.

That wasn`t there before the disruption started. So in terms -- and this
is what we know social movements do in American politics, they inject
issues onto the political agenda.

So now O`Malley now -- former Secretary of State Clinton and now Senator
Sanders have all come out each with very strong, bold policy platforms to
deal with what are the central demands of the movement for Black Lives
around the range of issues of racial inequality that affect black people
and specially people of color.

O`DONNELL: And Christina Bellantoni, it doesn`t seem to his--what would we
call them Dorano (ph)? I was going to say clashes with Black Lives Matter?
I`m not sure that`s the right word but run-insurance, whatever we call it.
It doesn`t seem to have hurt the momentum of the Sanders Campaign. There
he is with you out in Los Angeles tonight drawing another huge crowd.

CHRISTINA BELLANTONI, LOS ANGELES TIMES ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR FOR
POLITICS: Yeah. Yeah. You know, we`ve got reporters out of the scene
there and you know, big crowds of people driving from all over to see him.
He was in Oakland earlier and got a pretty big endorsement from a nurse`s
union that has left leaning but, you know, still shows that he has some
momentum.

But I will say just to temper a little bit on this excitement, it`s just
that there`s not a lot to compare it to. Hillary Clinton is not attempting
to do big rallies like this. So her potential to get disrupted in this way
is less. You know, their events are a little bit more structured, a little
bit more controlled, less open to the public than this at this point in the
campaign.

And at the same time, she`s also not trying to draw a contest -- a contrast
with these crowds. So it`s hard to say, we`ll look into this giant crowd,
he`s getting when she`s not when she`s choosing to reveal her student loan
plan, you know, in one of the earlier primary seats.

You know, this is about drawing attention. It is helping with his fund
raising and it`s helping with his name recognition. I`m out here in
California, everyone is talking about him. There`s really energized
volunteer movement here. You know, when I talked to people, they`re asking
me, "Hey, you know, can he win this nomination?"

And the answer I always tell people is, "Anything can happen. You know,
here`s all the reasons Hillary Clinton is well-positioned for it." But,
you know, nothing would surprise me in politics.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. If you try to grab Hillary Clinton`s microphone, you
ain`t going to get near it because you`ve got the Secret Service to deal
with.

Nick, I want to put hole in Trump polling in perspective here, the huge
Donald Trump phenomenon. Donald Trump is polling in New Hampshire at a
level lower than Bernie Sanders, significantly lower, showing much less
support 24 percent of Republicans, Bernie Sanders has 36 percent of
Democrats. That`s a way bigger slice of the electric in New Hampshire that
Bernie Sanders has. And yet, if you ever try to compare, you know, how
much attention we`re giving these people, it all goes to the noisemaker.

NICHOLAS CONFESSORE, THE NEW YORK TIMES: That`s right. I mean, it`s true
and we still think about that for a second. I mean, you know, I think the
Trump phenomenon is real. It`s hard to know how he would do in a smaller
field of candidates in this -- I don`t know, 20, 30, 50 candidates at this
point? So that they`re dividing it up and stealing votes from each other
to some extent.

I would very curious to see how Trump would do in a three person field
against you know, Jeb Bush, Mark Rubio and Scott Walker.

But you`re right, like, you know, because of the bomb-ass and the
confrontation and the fun of it, right, that Donald Trump gets a lot more
attention.

O`DONNELL: Nicholas Confessore, thank you very much for joining us
tonight.

Coming up, Hillary Clinton`s explanation of why she went to Donald Trump`s
wedding and why former Illinois Congressman Aaron Schock faces the
possibility of jail even before facing criminal charges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Here is Chuck Laudner, Donald Trump`s Iowa campaign chairman
yesterday in Waterloo, in an interview with Brent Roske.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK LAUDNER, IOWA CHAIRMAN DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: They`re constantly
complaining that he doesn`t put any meat on the bones, that there`s no
specifics, no specifics to your plan.

Well, he`s been to a lot of events Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina,
Nevada, beyond and beyond. He has been making these policy pronouncements.
He`s been talking about tariffs. He`s been talking about taxes. He`s been
talking about health care, being able to buy across state lines and the
details on that. He`s been talking about it, but they refuse to listen,
because they want to hold on to that line of attack as long as they can,
that he`s not talking about specifics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Donald, if you want to talk about specifics, about health care
or any other the governing policy that you propose, you know you have an
open invitation to do that, right here on "The Last Word".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In out of control congressman news tonight, POLITICO is
reporting that the Department of Justice threatened to hold former Illinois
Republican Congressman Aaron Schock in contempt of court and put him in
jail for not releasing thousands of pages of records from his Congressional
Office.

Schock`s defense team has argues that he has a Fifth Amendment right not to
incriminate himself by handing over those records. Federal investigators
are investigating travel reimbursements that led to the congressman`s
resignation in March.

Up next, if you`re wondering how to get Hillary Clinton to come to your
wedding, you`ve got to make it sound like fun.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: In the Republican debate, Donald Trump was asked exactly what
he got in exchange for his campaign contributions to democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: And what did you get from Hillary Clinton and Nancy
Pelosi?


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We`ll, I tell you what with
Hillary Clinton, I said be at my wedding and she came to my wedding, you
know why? She had no choice, because I gave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Today, Hillary Clinton told her side of the story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn`t know him that well.
I mean, I knew him, I knew him, and I happened to be planning to be in
Florida, and I thought it would be fun to go to his wedding, because it`s
always entertaining. Now, that he`s running for president, it`s a little
more troubling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The Democratic Party has announced they will hold only six
presidential primary debates, far fewer than the Republicans. The
conventional wisdom in politics is of course that fewer debates always
favor front runners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I`m going to show up for the debates as they are scheduled. And
I look forward to having a robust, good opportunity to exchange views with
my, you know, fellow candidates. I`m just going to show up. And when I`m
told to show up, I`ll be there and looking forward to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The other Democratic candidates for president would like to
have a few more debates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like to see us be debating
all over this country. I`d like to see the DNC have more debates. I would
like to see labor union groups. I would like to see environmental groups,
women`s groups, gay groups. Groups of different constituencies, as host
events and have us debates. So I believe the more debates, the better.

GOV. MARTIN O`MALLEY, (D) MARYLAND: I think we should have a robust
debate. The presidency is not a crown to be passed back and forth between
two royal families. And in our party, sadly, we are now being told that
we`re only supposed to have one debate in New Hampshire before the people
of New Hampshire get to vote. I think that`s a big mistake for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Back with us, Dorian Warren and Christina
Bellantoni. I want to listen to something Hillary Clinton said where she`s
basically leveraging Trump against the -- linking him to the other
Republican candidates. Let`s listen to what she said about Marco Rubio
with a veiled reference to Trump here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: When one of their major candidates, a much younger man, the
Senator from Florida, says there should be no exceptions for rape and
incest, that is as offensive and as troubling a comment as you can hear
from a major candidate running for the presidency. What Marco Rubio said
has as much of an impact in terms of where the Republican Party is today as
anybody else on that stage.

O`DONNELL: Christina Bellantoni, there is Hillary Clinton using -- that
was actually a larger discussion about the offensive comments Donald Trump
made both in the debate and after the debate. And then, she takes that
into the policy arena saying what Marco Rubio and others are advocating in
policy is just as offensive.

BELLANTONI: The Democrats all want to make sure the volume isn`t turned up
so loud on Trump that the other candidates aren`t heard when they say
things that they think are going to be beneficial for the Democratic Party
come November 2016. So, you know, they`re doing a really big job of
putting out stuff on Chris Christie and Marco Rubio, and that`s exactly
what she`s doing. She`s trying to turn up the volume a little bit on that
because Hillary Clinton doesn`t think she`s going to be running against
Donald Trump.

And that, by the way, I`m dying to know, did she get him a wedding gift?
And did he send a thank you note after that wedding gift?

O`DONNELL: Yeah. And where was he registered exactly? And, Dorian, this
thing about limiting the debate, obviously, to Hillary Clinton`s advantage,
and it`s -- I wonder how much more noise the other Democrats are going to
make about this?

WARREN: We`ll see and we`ll also learn as more people might jump--might or
might not jump in. We heard rumors about someone last week that this
debating jumping in to the presidential race.

So that dynamic could shift. I mean, obviously, it is to her advantage to
limit the amount of debates. It is to the challengers, particularly
O`Malley and Sanders, to have more debates to get them more exposure,
absolutely. But at this point, I think there`s not much they can do in
terms of influencing the DNC. I don`t think the DNC is...

O`DONNELL: Yeah.

WARREN: ... is going to reverse policy here.

O`DONNELL: And, Christina, by the time they debate, will there be anything
left that they might disagree on? I mean, there`s Hillary Clinton catching
up -- trying to catch up with Bernie Sanders on affordability of college,
for example.

BELLANTONI: One debate is good. You know, I would love to see lots and
lots of debates, but I, frankly, am surprised they even got that far given,
you know, her standing, and I think Bernie Sanders sort of forced that
issue and so that`s good for the other candidates who want these debates.

So we`re going to have plenty to talk about, and I know whoever moderates
those debates are going to do, you know, a very good job on that as well.
You know, we just had reports from our L.A. Times reporters on the scene at
the Bernie Sanders rally. He said from the stage that he had 27,000 people
here in Los Angeles.

O`DONNELL: Wow. So there`s another, I mean...

BELLANTONI: Yeah. I haven`t done the crowd count, but that`s what he
said.

O`DONNELL: And, you know, as Christina can tell you, Dorian, Los Angeles
is actually, people think, "Oh, the big cities." The big cities are the
hardest places...

WARREN: Yes.

O`DONNELL: ... to get big crowds. Here`s Hillary Clinton in New York
City, in Manhattan, she got 5,000 people, and they worked as hard as they
could to get those 5,000 people. It is amazing that he`s turning out
these.

WARREN: It`s amazing, especially in Los Angeles...

O`DONNELL: Yeah.

WARREN: ... which is, as you know, has a car culture, right?

O`DONNELL: Yeah.

WARREN: But Portland, Seattle, all of these places, Phoenix, Texas, these
are places you would not expect huge crowds for any political candidate,
much less someone who is a self-avowed socialist and is on the left.

O`DONNELL: And, Christina, the -- when Bernie Sanders pulls these kinds of
crowds, there is going to be -- there`s this increasing excitement
momentum, and it`s hard to see, in the campaign at this stage, that same
excitement momentum for Hillary Clinton.

BELLANTONI: Yeah. You know, and it does remind me, I covered 2007
extensively, and that`s when you really start to see Barack Obama, you
know, gain a national following. It reminds me of that time.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. And she definitely has this excitement, Dorian. It`s
just that it`s not coming out there, I mean, this big crowd scene.

WARREN: We`re not seeing a crowd visible in the same way, right.

O`DONNELL: It`s really present online.

WARREN: It is.

O`DONNELL: I mean, they`re really there. Dorian Warren and Christina
Bellantoni, thank you both for joining me tonight. Chris Hayes is up next.

END

<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>






Sponsored links

Resource guide