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All In With Chris Hayes, Monday, August 10th, 2015

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Date: August 10, 2015

Guest: Tara Dowdell, Gabriel Sherman, McKay Coppins, Wesley Lowery,

Patricia Bynes, Pramila Jayapal


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC GUEST HOST (voice-over):  Tonight on ALL IN -- 


him.  The Republican Party is going to have to deal with him. 

HAYES:  The Trump show continues with Donald Trump now demanding apologies

from Fox News. 

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  She should really be apologizing

to me, you want to know the truth. 

HAYES:  Tonight, Michael Steele and Gabe Sherman on how Republicans and Fox

News are dealing with the runaway front-runner, as Trump shows no sign of

slowing down. 

Plus, as Bernie-mentum continues across America, can Sanders pull off

something only one other candidate has ever done before? 

And, a state of emergency is declared in St. Louis County, Missouri, as we

return to Ferguson one year later. 

PROTESTERS:  The whole world is watching.  The whole world is watching. 

The whole world is watching.

HAYES:  ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES:  Good evening from New York.  I`m Chris Hayes. 

Even after a full-scale assault on Donald Trump from some of the most

prominent voices across the spectrum of Republican politics, the Grand Old

Party and conservative movement are finding there`s no off switch for the

Frankenstein they have created. 

Following his performance at the first Republican debate last week, many

commentators declared for the second time as many weeks, the beginning of

the end for the Trump phenomenon.  But now, at least three polls show Trump

keeping a firm grip on his front runner status. 

New online poll from Reuters/Ipsos showing him holding strong at 24

percent, followed by Jeb Bush by 12 percent.  While an Iowa poll conducted

by left-leaning Public Policy Polling finding Trump leading at 19 percent

with Ben Carson and Scott Walker tied for second at 12 percent.  An online

NBC News poll shows Trump at 23 points followed by Ted Cruz at 13 percent

and Ben Carson at 11 percent. 

New numbers come after a feud between Trump and the conservative media

establishment exploded into all-out verbal warfare over the weekend,

starting with Trump`s attacks on Fox News and Megyn Kelly in particular

over her questions for him at debate. 

After Trump said of her there was "blood coming out of her eyes, blood

coming out of her wherever", in an interview on Friday, he found himself

uninvited from the RedState gathering, a conservative conference, hosted by

influential blogger and radio host Erick Erickson. 


ERICK ERICKSON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF REDSTATE:  I think it was inappropriate.  I

really think it was inappropriate.  I`ve got my wife here, I`ve got my

daughter here, I`ve got 800 friends of mine here.  It`s a family-friendly



HAYES:  That decision brought to you by the same conservative figure who`s

called Michelle Obama a, quote, "Marxist harpy wife," called Wendy Davis

"abortion Barbie," and a set of feminists called "being too ugly to get a

date does to your brain".

Trump also parted ways over the weekend with key adviser, political

strategist Roger Stone, a man with a tattoo of Nixon`s face on his back

who`s been profiled in "The New Yorker" as a Republican dirty trickster and

referred to CNN commentators Roland Martin and Ana Navarro, both people of

color, as quote-a-hires. 

Stone, too, said Trump`s attacks on Megyn Kelly were a bridge too far. 


ROGER STONE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST:  The presidency and American elections

are decided on big picture issues.  We have an Iranian deal that could

conflagrate this country and we`re going to debate what is or is not

politically correct or exchange personal insults? 


HAYES:  Throughout the Obama years, conservative media and political

leaders have stooped deep sense of grievance and persecution among their

audience, anger at the people who are stealing their jobs, eating their tax

dollars, and the PC police who dictate how they`re supposed to talk about

those people. 

And that`s exactly what Donald Trump is tapping into on the campaign trail. 

As the latest poll numbers show, it`s completely taken on a life of its


There are two other Republican candidates who tend to play to the same kind

of politics of grievance, Ben Carson and Ted Cruz, two of the only 2016

hopefuls who have declined to criticize Trump.  In that new online poll

from NBC News the three of them capture a combined 47 percent of the

Republican vote. 

Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst and former RNC chairman, Michael


Michael, I was away last week during the debates.  So, I`m --


HAYES:  Well, I did.  I did watch. 

If I had asked you after that debate to make a prediction, I`m asking you

to honestly tell me, right after the debate I said, predict four or five

days from now what this does to Trump`s poll numbers?  What would you have

told me? 

STEELE:  After that debate? 

HAYES:  Yes. 

STEELE:  I would have said, and I think I did say, he`ll take a slight hit

but then he`ll keep going.  And that`s exactly what`s happened.  He`s taken

a slight hit from the -- 

HAYES:  Very slight.  Very slight. 

STEELE:  Well, the last poll going in he was like 25, 26.  He`s down to 23. 

So, he took a slight hit.  He`s -- even after the disinvite from RedState,

he seems to be gaining momentum.  It is a political phenomenon that we have

not seen before and I think it really speaks to the fact, Chris, that Trump

has come into this thing and he`s turned the rules on their head.  He`s

saying what he wants to say.  He`s talking about what he wants to talk


I know the RNC is apoplectic at this point, because they know what happens

come September, post-Labor Day.  You are three and a half, four months away

from Iowa.  And they -- those other candidates need to begin to build


HAYES:  Yes.  Rick Perry today saying they`re not paying their South

Carolina stance -- South Carolina staff, Rick Perry is a multi-term

governor of one of the big states of the Union, he was someone who

obviously flamed out in 2012.  People thought he was going to have a


I mean, here he is struggling to fund his campaign.  As you said, Donald

Trump breaking every rule.  I mean, the thing I got to think about here is,

this 47 percent of the electorate, we talk about Carson, Cruz, and Trump in

that polling. 


HAYES:  That`s where the center of gravity is in the Republican primary. 

That doesn`t mean that`s all Republicans.  It doesn`t mean it`s all primary

voters.  It may actually ultimately be a minority of them if you had two

candidates one on one.  But that is right now where all the power, energy

and force of this primary is. 

STEELE:  And it has been building for at least four or five years.  It has

been something that has been growing from within the base for quite some

time.  It is all about big-government Republicanism.  It is all about a

party of activists, group of activists out there, a lot of them, who feel

disenfranchised from their own party, who feel they`ve been lied to, and

who are sick and tired of Republicans saying one thing, coming to

Washington, doing something else. 

So, this voice comes out of the wilderness that says, follow me, I`m going

to keep it real, I`m not going to play by their rules.  I don`t need their

money, I don`t need their organization, I don`t need their people.  You and

me together will do something different. 

And so far, that seems to be working.  You see it also with Bernie Sanders

on the Democrat side.  Hillary Clinton has a growing problem on her watch

as well, because Bernie is tapping into that same thing.  Two sides, you

know, the different side of the same coin of frustration on the ground. 

HAYES:  Let me say I`ve heard this, this is something people have said

about this sort of energy behind Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders who I

think are in no way similar for a variety of reasons.  Aside from the fact

that Bernie Sanders has had an elected office for the better part of three


He is -- you want to call the guy anything, he is a politician`s

politician.  He`s a very good politician, got himself elected a number of

times.  He was a mayor.  He was a congressman.  He`s a sitting U.S.


There is also in the form of Bernie Sanders, this is the thing I think is

fascinating.  The one thing they have in common, Donald Trump and Bernie

Sanders, they both believe in single-payer health care. 

STEELE:  Right. 

HAYES:  Donald Trump, this is fascinating to me, Donald Trump basically

defended single-payer health care in that debate 24 million people watched,

he said it worked for Scotland and England. 

What`s surprising is that no one -- Rick Wilson has been on this program,

you on this program, saying they`re going to hit him on policy.  No one

cares, they don`t care that he`s up there defending single payer, because

it is about affect.  It is about tone.  It is about perspective.  It is

about going after the politically correct. 

And I think in some ways he is essentially titanium on that stuff.  We will

see if that turns around. 


HAYES:  Michael Steele, always a pleasure.  Thank you. 

STEELE:  Tell Sam he was right. 

HAYES:  Yes!  I love that you -- I love that you teed that up, because he`s

sitting here and you must heard in the IPV.  He`s sitting here being, like,

I`ve got to tell Michael!  I`m going to get to that in a second.

The widespread condemnation of Donald Trump`s remarks about Megyn Kelly

comes as Republicans in Congress are considering a shutdown in order to

defund Planned Parenthood and as the rest of the GOP presidential field

moves further to the right on a number of issues, particularly women`s

reproductive issues. 

Case in point: Marco Rubio`s contention at the debate last week that he

never supported an abortion ban exception for victims of rape and incest. 

At a campaign stop in New Hampshire today, Hillary Clinton called out Trump

and some of Trump`s Republican rivals. 


CLINTON:  What a lot of the men on that stage and that debate said was

offensive.  And I want people to understand, if you just focus on maybe the

biggest showman on the stage, you lose the thread here.  I want to point

out there`s really not that much difference in the policies that they are

proposing when it comes to America women. 


HAYES:  Joining me Sam Seder, MSNBC contributor, host of "The Majority

Report" podcast, Democratic political strategist, Tara Dowdell, once a

contestant on "The Apprentice" hosted by Donald Trump. 

I think this is a fascinating point, which is that Trump thing has obscured

the fact that in that debate particularly on this issue, on women`s choice,

you know, Scott Walker and Marco Rubio both adopted stances to the right of

any Republican nominee in recent memory, including George W. Bush.  No

exceptions for rape and incest. 

That is something that we may not be looking at now, but that`s now on the

record, it`s going to be an issue later. 


percent going to be an issue later.  I think one of the things that`s

happening because Donald Trump -- Hillary Clinton made this point very well

-- because Donald Trump is getting all the attention, what`s not being

talked about is not -- Donald Trump may be saying extreme things but

Republicans are doing extreme things. 

So, if you look at -- take Paul Ryan, for instance.  People may forget

this.  He was proposing legislation to redefine rape, to change the way

rape is defined, to make it a looser definition of rape, a violent act. 

So, a lot of what Republicans are doing to me aren`t very different than

what Donald Trump is saying.  And that`s a problem. 

HAYES:  Well, also the fact is, this all sort of -- people keep talking

about policy, right?  They keep talking about Trump`s undoing policy. 

You`ve been saying this forever like that`s not going to work, right? 

SAM SEDER, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR:  No, it`s not going to work, because the

policies are the same.  I mean, what Michael was referring to --

HAYES:  Except for single payer. 

SEDER:  Except for single payer.  That`s right. 

And also Trump pointed out he was the first off the Iraq war train. 

HAYES:  Yes. 

SEDER:  And he also doesn`t want to cut Social Security.  He only shares

that with Huckabee on some level. 

HAYES:  Right. 

SEDER:  This whole attempt to say, this is just about a personality, the

fact is that there is no real policy center to the Republican Party for at

least a decade.  That`s the point.  That`s why all they can do is to go on

the most extreme edges of any type of issue and stake themselves out there

so that they can attract some attention with this sort of death star that

is Donald Trump.  It`s the only way --

HAYES:  But let me push back on that.  I disagree on this, in this

important respect.  2010 was an austerity election.  The Republican Party

ran on austerity in that elected, got elected to office, they imposed

austerity, I think it was a disaster.  But that was what they run, that`s

what they got elected, that`s what they did. 

SEDER:  I`m sorry, that`s not what people voted on.  They voted against the

president in that situation.  And when Ben Carson gets up there and says,

in sort of a veiled way, that President Obama is a Manchurian candidate, no

one`s talking about the fact that he said, essentially, talking about a

hypothetical president. 

HAYES:  Right. 

SEDER:  He came in and did all the things Obama did and walked away,

leaving his country in shambles, as if that was part of his agenda. 

Look, the bottom line is that it`s not about a cult of personality with

Trump.  That has been the way Republicans have been governing and

expressing policy for years.  So, for them, it is policy. 

DOWDELL:  And I think the difference is that Trump has a microphone, a huge

microphone.  So he`s getting more attention for saying what he`s saying. 

But it is not out of step with what everyone else has been and is saying. 

HAYES:  This is particularly true on immigration.  The thing that Michael

was referring to is, you said you guys -- we had an exchange on the show,

talking about the debate comes, they`re going to press him on immigration. 

SEDER:  They`re going to press him on his comments about Mexican people. 

HAYES:  Zero, nothing.  No one went after him for it.  In fact, the

opposite, they all were basically competing --

SEDER:  I said to Michael, the reason they can`t go after him on that is

their policies line up with his perfectly.  And the only thing that was

surprising is that Marco Rubio, and going back and forth on who`s going to

build the biggest wall, said his will be subterranean.  And that`s

basically it.  That was --

HAYES:  The winning bid. 

SEDER:  He`s going to put his wall in the ground, deep, I don`t know how

deep, but that`s the problem is that there`s -- this hasn`t been -- the

Republican voters have been trained that policy is just rhetoric, that you

can get a better deal with Iran just by talking tough, as if that means

something.  That means nothing.  And so, they have been trained to believe

like, this is the CEO president who talks tough, he`s the alpha male,

that`s who we vote for. 

HAYES:  Your experience with the CEO president.  Any light you want to


DOWDELL:  I think Donald Trump, first of all, I`m of the belief, I know

some people have argued that he goes after anyone.  I think he`s been

misogynistic because he specifically focus on the Megyn Kelly, and I said

this before, versus the male panelists or moderators who were also pressing

and attacking him on issues. 

So, I mean, to me this is consistent with who he is. 

HAYES:  Megyn Kelly, we should note in the controversial question that has

-- literally just quoted back things he said about women that are nasty. 

Like that was it.  That was the gotcha.  That was the extent of it. 

DOWDELL:  I also want to raise the point, had Donald Trump said similar

things about Michelle Obama or any Democratic woman, there would not this

be outrage on the right. 

SEDER:  Not at all. 

DOWDELL:  Not at all.

HAYES:  Sam Seder, Tara Dowdell, thank you very much. 

Still to come, Donald Trump squares off with Fox in the war of right-wing

aggression.  We`ll have the latest.

Plus, Bernie Sanders continues to break attendance records at his campaign

events.  What does that mean in the long run? 

And later, protesters shut down a major interstate in the St. Louis metro

area just more than one year after the death of Michael Brown. 

Those stories and more ahead.




McConnell and the rest of the folks in his caucus who oppose this jumped

out and opposed it before they even read it, before it was even posted, is

reflective of an ideological commitment not to get a deal done.  And in

that sense, they do have a lot in common with hardliners who are much more

satisfied with the status quo. 


HAYES:  President Obama there referring to apparently unified Republican

opposition to the Iran nuclear deal.  A lot of attention`s also been paid

to whether the president will have enough support from his own party. 

So, it was very big news when Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer, a member of

leadership, came out against the Iran deal.  Some say Schumer only declared

his formal opposition once he was confident the deal would actually have

the votes to pass. 

For those keeping tabs on the momentum, today, another senator made his

intentions known, someone you may not be as familiar with.  Senator Brian

Schatz of Hawaii announced he is supporting the Iran deal, becoming the

17th Democratic senator to publicly state his intention to vote in favor of

the deal. 

Congress will vote on the Iran deal in September after it returns from

August recess.  Ultimately since it would take an override vote in both

houses of Congress to kill the deal after an expected presidential veto,

only 34 Democratic senators are needed to support the deal to ensure its


So, every single vote of support in the Senate really counts equally to

every other.  In that sense the support of Senator Schatz is as big a get

for the White House as Schumer was a loss. 


HAYES:  To my mind, this is one of the most fascinating subplots in 2016,

and today, after four days of feuding, Donald Trump and Fox News have

apparently made peace, helped it appears by the phone call from the man on


Trump tweeting this afternoon, "Roger Ailes just called, he`s a great guy

and assured me the Trump," that`s Trump`s quotation marks around his own

name, "will be treated fairly on Fox News, his word is always good."

Ailes, of course, the chairman of Fox, and the real estate mogul, are

reportedly a long-time friends.  The two lunched eight days after Trump

announced his presidential bid, according to "Politico".  The GOP front-

runner has appeared frequently on the network that is until all the good

feelings came to an end Thursday night. 


TRUMP (via telephone):  I`m not sure that Fox is fair, necessarily.  But

I`ve been set up before and I think I handled it well. 

If I wasn`t on, they would have had 2 million people.  Certainly I don`t

have a lot of respect for Megyn Kelly.  She`s a light weight. 

I think the question was extremely unfair to me.  Her whole questioning was

unfair to me. 

I said that about Chris Wallace, I said there was blood pouring -- because

he tried to question me and he`s a small shadow of his father Mike, that I

can tell you. 


HAYES:  Over the weekend, he reportedly told Sean Hannity that, quote, "he

was never doing Fox again."  On Sunday, he appeared on CBS, NBC, CNN,

skipping Fox News. 

This morning, he talked to the "Today" show and MSNBC`s "MORNING JOE" where

he refused to say whether or not he`s spoken to anyone at the conservative



JOE SCARBOROUGH, MORNING JOE:  Have you talked to Roger over the weekend,

have you talked to anybody at Fox News over the weekend, about trying to

find common ground with the network? 

TRUMP:  Well, I don`t want to say that but I will tell you that I don`t

think Fox treats me well --

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, hold on a second.  You`re a straight talker, baby, come

on.  Help us out. 

TRUMP:  I don`t want to say.  Why should I say it?  I`m not going to

embarrass anybody. 


HAYES:  A cease-fire seems to have been called.  Trump is said to appear on

"Fox and friends" at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow.  Just hours ago, Ailes confirmed

the call, saying, quote, "I assured him we will continue to cover this

campaign with fairness and balance.  We had a blunt but cordial

conversation, the air`s been cleared."

But the war between the GOP front runner and fox comes amidst a larger

civil war that`s sprung up in the conservative media around the figure of

Trump.  While he spent the last several days going after Fox News, "The

Drudge Report" and "Breitbart", two leading conservative outlets, both

carried pro-Trump, anti-Fox News headlines. 

Over the weekend, "BuzzFeed" reported that some Breitbart staffers believe

Trump has given money to site for favorable coverage, a report Breitbart is

vehemently denying, saying in a statement, "We have no financial

relationship with Donald Trump as an investor, advertiser or in any other

capacity at this time, nor have we ever.  The insinuation we do or did is a


Joining me, McKay Coppins of "BuzzFeed", who wrote that report, which is

adopted from his forthcoming book "The Wilderness", and Gabriel Sherman of

"New York" magazine, who`s done some of the best reporting out there on the


McKay, let me start with you.  Obviously, Breitbart strongly denying this. 

Independent of whatever you reported about the belief of staffers,

Breitbart has been a kind of pro-Trump beachhead in the land of sort of

conservative media, even before this latest weekend civil war. 

MCKAY COPPINS, BUZZFEED:  Yes, as I report in my story, at least since last

year, people inside the company on the editorial staff who are not

necessarily fans of Trump have complained about the ardently pro-Trump

coverage on the site.  And yes, if you look at -- search the archives on

Breitbart.  You find thousands of stories about Donald Trump. 

There are some negative stories.  The vast majority are very positive, even

fawning at times.  And yes, Breitbart has been supportive of Trump since

the debate while a lot of conservative media has seemed to turn on him,

Breitbart has remained very in favor of him as he continued to give him

fawning coverage. 

HAYES:  And this is a key point -- I mean, you have a lot of people -- so

you have a lot of people in the conservative media who have really gone

after Trump.

People of "National Review" and Charles Krauthammer and George Will and all

these people saying this guy`s a hustler, imposter, not a real

conservative, et cetera.  The Ailes/Trump relationship to me is the most

fascinating thing happening in this campaign so far. 

GABRIEL SHERMAN, NEW YORK MAGAZINE:  This to me boils down -- the civil war

that`s taking place inside the Republican Party.  Anyone who wants to

understand the 2016 primary has to just follow the feud between Donald

Trump and Roger Ailes because you see the establishment interest versus the

conservative base interest, which essentially is the Fox News audience. 

Roger Ailes wants to win elections but he also has to run a TV network to

make billions in revenue.  So, what he does is he capitalizes on people

like Donald Trump until they become an electoral liability and Donald Trump


HAYES:  And we`ve seen this with Sarah Palin, right? 


HAYES:  Sarah Palin was this Fox creature in many ways. 

SHERMAN:  Inside -- this is what I learned today.  Inside the Trump

campaign, there is a belief that Roger Ailes was given an order to kill off

Donald Trump in the debate to help Jeb Bush.

Now, we don`t know yet if that`s true.  But that is the belief that`s taken

hold inside the Trump campaign.  Without a doubt Trump did days questions

that were decidedly more pointed than any of the other Republicans --

HAYES:  Although I`ve got to say, they were decidedly more pointed but also

seemed like -- I mean, you`ve got to guy running for president, the front-

runner, pointed questions seem appropriate. 

SHERMAN:  Exactly.  That makes sense.  But that is the belief inside the

Trump campaign.  Roger Ailes needs Donald Trump.  Just look at the ratings,

24 million people. 

HAYES:  That`s the hilarious thing.  I mean, Trump gets up there, McKay,

Trump gets up there and says, it would have been 2 million if not for me. 

I don`t think it would have been 2 million, but Trump owns a significant --

24 million is just a bonkers number for something this early. 

COPPINS:  Yes.  I remember when I was flying into Cleveland, I literally

heard people on the plane saying, "I never watch political debates but I

want to see what the Donald`s going to say."  I mean, it`s absolutely true

that Donald Trump is, as he described himself over the weekend, a ratings

machine.  And as long as he`s in these debates and as long as he`s in the

race and Fox News and other outlets can continue to cover him as a leading

candidate, it`s great for ratings, great for traffic, it`s great for all

the outlets who are covering him. 

HAYES:  Let me quote this back to you from your piece.  Because he`s the

fascinating Frankenstein thing.  This is from your "New York" magazine

piece talking about the reaction to Megyn Kelly`s question, "In the

beginning, virtually, 100 percent of the e-mails were against Megyn Kelly,

Roger was not happy, most of the Fox viewers were taking Trump`s side."

This is the fear, the Frankenstein fear. 

SHERMAN:  Yes, this is incredible.  We`ve seen this since 2012, where the

Fox audience has essentially taken over the Republican Party and has

damaged the party`s ability to win national elections.  Roger Ailes needs

to appeal to these people.  But to win elections, if the party becomes the

face of Donald Trump -- I mean, they are at a loss.  I mean, this is the


HAYES:  So, Ailes, let`s remember, I mean, Roger Ailes comes across in your

biography, which is excellent, he as genius.  I mean, he is a savant at

understanding the kind of emotional level at which politics functions. 

He`s a genius show man. 

SHERMAN:  Yes.  The America electorate is sort of his canvas.  If you see

the numbers, 24 million people, I mean, he was able to engineer this entire

show.  And then the belief is once Trump sort of served his usefulness they

decided to kill him off because they have to transition to the serious


HAYES:  McKay, I am now of the opinion that there`s about 20 percent, 25

percent that are going to stick with this guy -- are kind of there for

Donald Trump.  And that is not enough to win, although, you know, pretty

soon we get into the spitting distance of Iowa.  And you`ve got a real

problem.  I mean, the guy could carry Iowa. 

COPPINS:  He could carry more than Iowa -- he could carry several states. 

I think that as long as the field is as big as it is, I mean, there`s 17

candidates, right?  Twenty-five percent actually would be enough to win if

all 17 candidates stayed in. 

HAYES:  Right. 

COPPINS:  I imagine a lot of them will start dropping out for their own

reasons.  But I also think that if we get close to Iowa and Donald Trump is

leading and looking like he could actually win, I think you`ll see two

things happen.  One that is you`ll see a lot of Republican super PACs start

really tar carpet bombing Iowa and other states with ads about his past

positions and things like that.  I also think that you`ll see some backroom

deal-making trying to get lesser candidates who don`t have a shot out of

the race so that they stop splitting the vote and hopefully can elevate

another candidate.

I think the Republican Party absolutely does not want to see him win any


HAYES:  And the third question mark will be what that coverage on Fox News

looks like. 

SHERMAN:  Exactly.

HAYES:  Which is going to be -- 

SHERMAN:  That will tell you where it`s going. 

HAYES:  Really incredibly fascinating.  McKay Coppins, Gabriele Sherman,

thanks for joining me. 

Coming up, fresh off her jayvee debate success, Carly Fiorina comes out

against paid family leave mandate.  I`ll tell you why she`s wrong, next.


HAYES:  Presidential candidate Carly Fiorina has been doing an extended

victory lap after her perceived triumph in the fox news undercard debate,

also known as the Happy Hour debate, we might call it the also ran or

kiddie table debate in which she knocked the socks off the dozens of

attendees on the Quicken

Loans Arena.

Yesterday Fiorina clearly came out against federally mandated paid parental



FIORINA:  I don`t think it`s the role of government to dictate to the

private sector how to manage their businesses, especially when it`s pretty

clear that the private sector, like Netflix, like the example that you just

gave is doing the right thing because they know it helps them attract the

right talent.

I`m not saying oppose paid maternity leave.  What I`m saying is I oppose

the federal government mandating paid maternity leave to every company out



HAYES:  But what Fiorina points to the glory of free market and the Netflix

example is precisely the problem, because of the lack of federal

regulations regarding leave.  What Netflix giveth, Netflix can taketh away. 

And what Netflix is announced it is doing for some employees, which is to

give them up to a year of paid leave is great for those people. 

But the brand-new extended maternity leave policy does not extend to

Netflix`s DVD division which is composed primarily of hourly wage earners,

including the ones who physically sort and ship all those DVDs across the

country.  They get one month of fully paid leave, plus a longer term leave

at partial pay.

That typifies the problem.  The vast majority of American workers are not

in the upper echelon of highly paid workers of extremely profitable tech

companies.  Only 12 percent of private sector workers get paid family leave

of any kind according to Bureau of Labor Statistics.

So, the people who are doing things like packing DVDs for Netflix or on

their feet all day in a fast food job are almost never getting paid

maternity leave or getting paid leave of any kind.

In fact, forget maternity leave, just 61 percent, just slightly over half

of private sector workers, get paid sick leave, that means 39% do not.  And

39 percent of private sector workers don`t even get sick days.

The market that Fiorina is talking has been operating in America for a very

long time, and as yet it has failed to solve the paid leave problem.


HAYES:  Over the weekend, Bernie Sanders set two more records for campaign

rally attendance for the 2016 cycle, breaking a previous record of 11,000

he set just last month in Phoenix.

But things got off to a rocky start when on Saturday afternoon in Seattle,

protesters identifying as Black Lives Matter, interrupted an event on

Social Security where Sanders was scheduled to speak, demanding

accountability from Sanders on racial justice issues.

The event was ultimately shut down and Sanders didn`t speak.

Later that evening, at University of Washington, Sanders did speak.  He

spoke to what his campaign said was more than 15,000 supporters.

And that number was eclipsed on Sunday in Portland when the campaign said

that 28,000 people filled the seats in the overflow area outside the arena

where the NBA Portland Trailblazers play. 

Now, at this early date in the campaign, large crowds are at some level

just an indicator of how excited people are about a candidate as opposed to

how broadly popular they are.  But reminder, 20,000 people turned up in

February, 2007 in Austin, Texas for a man by the name of Barack Obama.

Yesterday`s rally for Bernie Sanders was the largest turnout for any 2016

presidential candidate thus far.  It was also the first rally for Sanders

since revealing a new racial justice platform.  And after facing protests

from black

activists the day before, the new public face of the Sanders campaign

yesterday, a young black political activist by the name of Symone Sanders,

she prepped the crowd

on what to do in the face of other protests.



disruption tonight, I want everyone in this stadium to respond with a

chant.  Can you all do that for me?  Can you do that for me?

I want you to respond with a chant, "we stand together."

Let`s practice.

CROWD:  We stand together.

SANDERS:  All right.  So in the event that there is a disruption, that is

our respond.


HAYES:  Though Bernie Sanders has a long record for working for civil

rights and racial justice -- he helped Jesse Jackson to a campaign victory

in Vermont in 1988 -- he`s had little direct experience with black voters

as a politician representing a state that is overwhelmingly white.

And question now is whether Sanders can bridge a gap between African-

Americans, a key if not the key voting block in a Democratic primary

contest and the predominantly white liberal activist class that sees

Sanders as a champion of progressive causes.

Joining me now, State Senator Pramila Jayapal who represents Washington`s

37th district, who was at the event on Saturday that was interrupted by

Black Lives Matter and wrote a great piece about that experience titled

"Why Saturday`s Bernie Sander`s rally left me feeling heartbroken."

Senator, do you want to explain why it left you feeling heartbroken?


Thanks so much for having me on, Chris.

You know, I think the thing that made me walk away the most heart broken

was here was a rally of our folks, the most progressive people probably in

Seattle.  It was largely white.  And the veneer of acceptance for and

support for the Black Lives Matter movement broke very quickly. 

And I think it made us realize that there was a lot that has to be done

still to really make sure that our most progressive -- arguably most

progressive presidential candidate is going to put racial justice up front

and center and that we`re going to tie these threads together of racial,

economic and social justice.

And so when people in the crowd immediately started booing and then it got

really nasty with a lot of white and black people in the crowd saying

racist things to each other.  I went over.  There were two sobbing young

African-American girls in the tent, sisters of one of our speakers.  And

they were afraid, Chris.

And I went over and just hugged them and we stood there just hugging each

other as one of them kept saying I`m so afraid.  I`m so afraid.

And so I think we realize that this is a moment for us to both look at

what`s happening, look at our responses to what`s happening and then figure

out how we

take all of that together and bring it back together so we can build a

really strong progressive movement that includes all of us in it.

HAYES:  Well, you know, I had so reactions to that.  I have been watching

with some both interest and dismay at some of the fights that have been

breaking out on social media around precisely this, around sort of Black

Lives Matter activists challenging specifically Bernie Sanders, some of the

response from Sanders`s supports -- and obviously social media isn`t

necessarily the greatest place for these exchanges to happen, because they

tend to be the most vitriolic.  But the dynamic you are describing is

basically what I`ve seen, a real fissure, a real kind of anger that`s sort

of being exchanged back and forth, real resentment coming from Sanders

supporters of these kind of interruptions.

And yet at the same time I think you turn around and you see the release of

a very robust racial justice platform today, you see something from Martin

O`Malley.  You know, this is kind of part of how the political process


JAYAPAL:  Well, that`s right.  And I`ll say that the response to my post,

which I literally wrote in the morning because I couldn`t sleep thinking

about what had happened and the emotions that I was feeling as somebody who

has been a civil and human rights activist for the last 20 years and then

now as an elected office.  And I wrote that piece really to help myself


And so while there has been difficulty and tension on social media, I also

have been amazed at the response to that piece, because I think we have an

opportunity here to help people figure out how to think about this in a way

that`s productive for us, and in a way that pushes the presidential


Because let`s face it, nobody should be calling themselves progressive

unless they really are taking this on. 


This issue of racial justice combined with economic inequality, these are

the two great issues that our nation is facing today.  And if you`re going

to run for president, I think everybody has to be prepared.

I`m really -- you know, I feel very good about how Bernie Sanders and his

campaign has been responding to this. Obviously we`ve still got some ways

to go, but I think that, you know, I met Symone.  She`s fantastic.  I think

she`s a great addition to the campaign.  I talked with Bernie Sanders

himself.  He was extremely gracious.  I think he is thinking -- he does

recognize -- in fact I said to him at one point, if you don`t mind,

senator, I want to say, you know, you`ve been the senator of a -- you`re a

73-year-old white guy who has been the senator of a very white state and

now you`re running for president.

HAYES:  Let me just say this, the most intense energy in the Democratic

Party right now is in two places with Black Lives Matter activists and with

essentially the people coalescing around Bernie Sanders.

So, the question from a descriptive matter whether those two things can be

fused, because that would mean some serious energy.

State Senator Pramila Jayapal, thank you very much.

JAYAPAL:  Thank you, Chris.

HAYES:  Still ahead, amidst arrests, peaceful protests and unnerving gun

violence, Ferguson commemorates the event that transformed the national

discourse on race as we were just talking about.  Stay with us.


HAYES:  One of our first All In America series was about the state of

Kansas, which has become a kind of laboratory for extreme right-wing policy


The New York Times Chris Suellenchop (ph), in a great peace called "The

Kansas Experiment" describes what it`s come to, huge budget deficits,

anemic economic growth, any possible state constitutional crisis over

whether legislatures education cuts are legal.

But one of the oddest stories to out of Kansas is the one about Governor

Sam Brownback`s brother Jim Brownback who has over the years been accused

of, and I`m quoting here, "drive-by shootings, death threats, detonating

explosives on his property, slaying a neighbor`s dog, stealing a neighbor`s

cattle, vandalizing adjacent property, hit-and-run driving and killing a

fawn outside of hunting season and leaving it gutted in a neighbor`s


And questions are now being raised about whether or not he has been

adequately prosecuted because he happens to be the governor`s brother,

which is somewhat amazingly not one of the top 100 problems that Governor

Brownback is now facing.


SAM BROWNBACK, (R) GOVERNOR OF KANSAS:  And we have been able to get...



HAYES:  At this hour, St. Louis County is under a state of Emergency as

declared earlier today in the wake of an outbreak of violence in the city

of Ferguson last night, an outbreak that followed a weekend of peaceful

protests to mark the one year anniversary of police officer Darren Wilson

killing African-American teenager Michael Brown. 

Protesters were back out on the streets today in Ferguson.  And just a

short time ago, a group briefly blocked traffic across all 10 lanes on

Interstate 70 in St. Louis County before it appeared dozens of protesters

were removed and arrested by police.

Earlier today, police say they arrested 56 protesters outside the St. Louis

County courthouse, among them Cornell West, DeRay Mckesson and Janetta Elcy

(ph) and other prominent members of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Protests in Ferguson and across the country to mark the anniversary of

Brown`s death have largely been peaceful.  they have largely been peaceful. 

But after the protests in Ferguson wound down yesterday late in the night,

tensions rose significantly in the early morning hours as the rain began to

fall with looting at a beauty supply store and hair salon and gunfire

breaking out on West Florissant Avenue.

Police say the gunfire resulted from a clash between two rival groups who

opened fire on each other.

Today, prosecutors fired charges against an 18-year-old who they say fired

on plain clothes police officers in an unmarked car and who then, they say,

was shot and critically wounded by St. Louis County police who were

returning fire.

That 18-year-old remains in the hospital in critical condition.  Police

said last night`s violence was unrelated to the peaceful protests.


JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE CHIEF:  There is a small group of

people out there that are intent of making sure that we don`t have peace

that prevails.  I don`t know how else to say that, but that`s just --

that`s just the bottom line on this.


HAYES:  When protests broke out in Ferguson and across the country last

year, it was impossible to know if it marked a strange alchemical moment of

unrest and rebellion that would soon dissipate or it was something new that

was truly being birthed.

One year after Michael Brown`s death, it is pretty clear the movement is

not going anywhere.  Last year`s protests of the inauguration of a new

civil rights movement that has absolutely transformed the national debate

on race and criminal justice.

And when we come back, we will go to Ferguson and speak to a reporter who

was there last year and who we learned today just under the wire of the

statute of limitations has been criminally charged in connection with his

reporting on those protests last year.

Stay with us for that.


HAYES:  Joining me now from Ferguson, Missouri our Washington Post reporter

Wesley Lowery who has now been charged in connection with his reporting on

the protests in Ferguson last year and Patricia Bynes, Democratic committee

woman of Ferguson township.

Wes, let me start with you perhaps, it was I think the second or third

night of protests, you and Ryland Riley (ph) from the Huffington Post were

in a McDonald`s basically charging your phones when police came in, told

you to get out.  You did not get out quickly enough for them.  They

arrested you.  You have now received a summons in connection with that.  Is

that correct?

WESLEY LOWERY, WASHINGTON POST:  Yeah, a court summons arrived in my home

today and so I had people who there sending me text message pictures of it.

But yeah a court summons with two charges, trespassing and interfering with

a police officer.  And so I have a court date later this month here in St.

Louis municipal court again for our detention and our illegal arrests while

we were exercising our first amendment rights to do our job last summer in


HAYES:  You know, this seems kind of a fitting way to for the St. Louis

municipal court system, which has faced a year of tremendous scrutiny for

being one of the most screwed up court systems possibly in the country just

to put the capstone on it to go ahead under the wire for the statute of

limitations and criminally charge a reporter for charging his laptop in a

McDonald`s while reporting.

LOWERY:  You know, essentially, they wanted to make sure just in case you

thought they had learned some lessons last year, just in case you believed

that there have been some types of systemic change, you read all the nice

anniversary pieces we have all done the last few days -- and in case you

were still really wondering what things were like here in Ferguson, here`s

your answer, let`s find a way to dig up something that was relatively

buried from a year ago, our illegal detention of two reporters and let`s

resurface that, let`s relitigate that publicly.  That apparently is the

message of the prosecutors and the court system here in St. Louis County

wanted to send on the anniversary of Michael Brown`s death.

HAYES:  Ms. Bynes, you -- unlike a lot of people have come and gone, people

who have come into Ferguson, done reoporting -- I have been there a number

of times, and obviously I don`t live there.  You live there.  You represent

it in the Democratic Party at least as a committee woman.

What does it look like a year later?


later that the pendulum has moved slightly, very little.  There haven`t

been large

changes, there have been actually more legislation passed in other states

for bills that have come out of Ferguson than actually have been passed

here in Missouri.

There has only been one bill here.  And locally at the Ferguson municipal

level, it`s been a little slow.  We`re still in limbo.  We have an interim

police chief, an interim city manager.  A new municipal court judge for

Ferguson is interim.

So everything is just still in limbo.  And they`re still negotiating.  They

haven`t finished up with the Department of Justice.

HAYES:  Yeah, we know that there was a tremendously scathing report from

the Department of Justice about the operation of the municipal police

department and

also municipal court system.  There are continued negotiations, but

essentially no

resolution am I correct, about how this department is going to change

itself to bring itself into line going forward?

BYNES:  That is correct.  The first initial offer made by the Department of

Justice, it was made public lasted week that the city of Ferguson rejected

it.  And they would like enough time to be able to offer a solution.

So we`re still -- everything is just really up in the air.  There have been

small changes.  Many people in the community still don`t feel like there is

a strong two-way dialogue.  There is a lawsuit going about the recall

effort for the mayor. 

So Ferguson is still pretty much in limbo.  The changes that are made have

been very small and have not made enough difference here to many people in

the community.

HAYES:  Wes, you covered Ferguson and then you have sort of gone on to

cover a kind of national beat for the Washington Post around a lot of the

same issues that were surfaced in Ferguson, what do you think about what

Patricia just said

which strikes me as an interesting point that Ferguson had more effect


Ferguson in some ways than it did in Ferguson?

LOWERY:  Well, it`s an interesting case study.  I remember an old college

professor of mine in a class I took, called history of American injustice. 

And he talked about how you can go to the Japanese interment camps used to

stand and there is barely an acknowledgment.  He talked about how Money,

Mississippi (ph), the town where Emmett Till (ph) was killed, no longer

exists rather than seeing reform there, everyone just moved away and left.

And so there is a real question, what will become of Ferguson?  It`s not

necessarily a question we will be able to answer, and obviously not a year

later, maybe not for a few more years.

HAYES:  Wesley Lowery and Patricia Bynes live Ferguson tonight.  Thank you


That is All In for this evening.




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