All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, August 12th, 2015
Read the transcript from the Wednesday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: August 12, 2015
Guest: Jesse McIntosh, Cornell Belcher, Matt Taibbi, Nate Silver, Jesse
Singal, Emily Witt, Alice Walton
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS NEWS: Do you really think you could beat Hillary
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK, great
question. The answer is yes.
HAYES: Hillary Clinton is officially feeling the burn, as Bernie
takes the lead on Hillary in New Hampshire. Tonight, Nate Silver on what
to make of all the early polling.
Plus, Matt Taibbi on 2016 as a reality show.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Bible!
HAYES: The first Republican finally drops an attack ad on Donald
TRUMP: The economy does better under the Democrats.
HAYES: Then, Planned Parenthood gets some love from the Republican
TRUMP: I cherish women.
HAYES: Plus, "Vanity Fair" in the Twitter fit over Tinder. Tonight,
the raging vote over the hottest dating app.
And California`s revolutionary approach to water conservation --
behold shade balls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one, shade balls go!
HAYES: ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
For the first time ever, Hillary Clinton is trailing in a poll on the
Democratic presidential primary, and almost as remarkable, is just who is
beating her. One Bernard Bernie Sanders.
In a new poll of Democratic voters in New Hampshire, Sanders leads
Clinton -- leads Clinton 44 percent to 37 percent, comfortable 7-point
edge, well outside the margin of error. While Sanders, of course, does
hail from New Hampshire`s next door neighbor at the west of Vermont, the
last time this very same poll was conducted back in March, he got just 8
percent compared to Clinton at 47.
As of now, this is just one poll, very early in the cycle, but it
comes as Bernie Sanders has been drawing biggest crowds of the campaign on
either side so far, nearly 28,000 people in L.A. on a Monday night, and
even more than that, the night before in Portland. It also comes as
questions about the private e-mail system Hillary Clinton used as secretary
of state are back in the news with Clinton now agreeing to turn over her
server to the FBI.
NBC`s Andrea Mitchell spoke on the phone with Bernie Sanders earlier
today, and he passed on an opportunity to attack Clinton over those e-
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: Do you think that the decline -- her
decline in the polls has any -- has any effect, does it reflect the e-mail
SANDERS: All I can tell you -- all I can tell you is we have been
focusing on our issues, which is to create an economy that works for the
middle class of this country and not a handful of billionaires. That`s
what I`ve been focused on.
MITCHELL: You may be the only candidate running for president not
wanting to jump all over her on this. Is that a deliberate strategy?
SANDERS: Well, I`ll tell you. You know, I honestly believe that the
American people are tired of old-fashioned politics where you`re supposed
to be beating up on all your opponents. I like Hillary Clinton, I respect
Hillary Clinton, I disagree with Hillary Clinton on many issues and that`s
what I`ll be talking about.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Jesse McIntosh, spokesperson for Emily`s List,
and Cornell Belcher, Democratic pollster who worked on both of Barack
Obama`s presidential campaigns.
Cornell, let me start with you.
So, one part of me says, oh, my God. I am genuinely shocked. I mean,
I am. I am surprised that Bernie Sanders is 7 points up in a poll in New
Hampshire of Democratic primary voters, a scientific poll, with a perfectly
good sampling size.
The side of me is like, well, it`s August, it`s super early and, you
know, go back and look at it in 2011 or 2007 and Rudy Giuliani is the
president of the United States.
As a pollster, what`s your reaction to this?
CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I`d say curb your enthusiasm
just a little bit. It is awfully early. You still have an electorate
that`s awfully fluid. I mean, I was looking at the number in, in some of
the polling from I think CNN that was out. You have two-thirds of the
caucus electorate or the primary electorate who is still searching, not
certain of their vote.
And this poll could be an outlier. I mean, there are things that
happen when you get polled that`s an outlier, that, you know, if you look
at the trend here, Hillary has been running comfortably ahead in almost
every place. This poll could be an outlier, but also it could be in fact
what you see is Bernie sort of catching on.
Do I think he is going to surge ahead of Clinton in all these places?
No, because I think most voters still don`t know him, and that`s what
campaigns are about. Sort of him building his name identification,
defining who he is and defining a contrast, a strong contrast with Clinton.
I think it was real smart from that interview, but he didn`t take
debate and attack Hillary.
A lot of candidates aren`t disciplined. Clearly, Bernie -- Senator
Sanders is disciplined.
HAYES: He is --
BELCHER: They know not to attack Hillary Clinton. That`s not who he
is. That`s not how they`re going to beat Hillary Clinton.
HAYES: I mean, Bernie Sanders is one of the most disciplined on
message individuals on the face of the earth. I mean, Bernie, what did you
have for breakfast? I had a middle class --
HAYES: I`m not saying -- I mean, I`m saying this with admiration.
Like this is -- it`s not a stunt. It`s not something he just, you know,
put out in the field and poll-tested. He`s been saying this for 40 years,
because every single fiber and cell of his body believes it, right? So,
this is -- you know, it`s not hard to give that message.
Jesse, the question I have is, what do you think the Clinton campaign
does with Bernie Sanders? I think they`re inclined to basically ignore
him. Run their race. Roll out the policy proposals. Get up in the air
with positive ads when they need to as we get closer. And the Sanders
thing will go away. At a certain point, they may not be able to do that.
JESSE MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: I think, I take them at their word,
they welcome him into the race and they`re glad that they`ve got him. I
think that this is a good thing for the Democratic Party. And it`s a good
thing for Hillary Clinton because of that.
I hear a lot of comparisons that I totally disagree with between
Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders, because they both seem like unlikely long
shots who are capturing enthusiasm.
MCINTOSH: Sanders is talking about issues that people want to be
front and center, that Hillary Clinton frankly wants to be front and
The fact that he is able to focus this race around economic populism
is a fantastic thing and I think, frankly, the dialogue going back and
forth between him and black lives matter is only a good thing for the
Democratic Party going forward. I mean, isn`t it kind of fun to be
watching Democratic primary that is issues-focused? That is actually about
a contrast between us and the Republicans, even before we get to the
general, and then take a look on the other side of the aisle? Like this
whole thing is making me proud of our candidates and happy to be a Democrat
HAYES: Well, so here`s -- one important thing. The thing -- the
thing that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have most in common is the way
they pronounce the word that is spelled H-U-G-E --
HAYES: Which is pronounced huge. Look it up. It`s huge. They both
pronounce it huge.
I think you`re right about the speciousness of that comparison. But,
Cornell, here`s the internals. And again, like, I think there is an
anticipation I think in a -- a lot of the media has a vested interest in
competition and would love nothing more than to see Hillary Clinton in a
neck in neck race. Like just a -- if there is a rooting interest in the
media, the rooting interest is uncertainty, surprises, competition, right?
So I am wary of that bias. That said, there is in this polling what
you might call an enthusiasm gap, right? Excited about Hillary Clinton`s
candidacy, 35 percent. Could support her but not enthusiastic, 51 percent.
We have seen kind enthusiasm gaps before in Democratic primaries, one
recalls Howard Dean versus John Kerry and enthusiasm doesn`t get that you
far it turns out in the end. But is that -- is there something there
that`s being measured?
BELCHER: Well, you always -- energy is always good. Particularly
energy is good when you`re going into caucus. Most Americans don`t
understand caucuses because they are a weird, crazy thing that only some
people do in weird crazy places.
But caucuses, you have to really be for a candidate to go through a
caucus process, because it is not hike you`re going to the voting booth and
just push a button and then walk away.
So, enthusiasm and energy of a base group is really good and helpful
in caucuses, but so is organization. I think when you look at the energy
behind Bernie -- Senator Sanders. I think it is a good thing. But I think
he`s got a long way to go in sort of defining himself and drawing a strong
contrast that puts him on one side and Hillary on another side, where he
can really pull through.
One of the things that -- in a way that`s not a hard negative in this
attack, because Hillary does very well when people attack her. I mean, she
can take a punch. One of the things the Obamacare campaign was able to do
in 2007, 2008, was put a hard contrast in a way that wasn`t a negative or
really sort of hard negative.
And part of that was experience, where they put experience on top of
the messaging pyramid. The Obama campaign turned that on its head and said
this kind of experience led us to Iraq, and I think he`s got to find his
hard contrast where he can put Hillary on one side without going hard
negative after her.
HAYES: All right. Jesse McIntosh, Cornell Belcher, thank you both.
HAYES: At Donald Trump`s campaign stop in Michigan last night, his
first since the Republican debate, the candidate shared some of his reading
habits after noticing someone holding his book, "The Art of the Deal".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hold that book up, please. OK, one of the greatest. That`s
my second favorite book of all time. Do you know what my first is? The
Nothing beats the Bible. Nothing beats the Bible. Not even "The Art
of the Deal". Not even close.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Not even close. That, ladies and gentlemen, is your
New polling out today suggests he may actually be consolidating his
lead in Iowa, home to the presidential nominating contest. Trump is now at
22 percent, well ahead of the runner up, Ben Carson at 14 percent.
Although, let`s just pause for a moment that Ben Carson is number two right
now. Followed by Scott Walker at 9 and Ted Cruz at 8.
It`s perfect time for the Donald to travel to Des Moines this weekend
to attend the Iowa state fair.
In every presidential cycle, "Rolling Stone" reporter Mike Taibbi
heads to Iowa to chronicle the carnival-like insanity leading up to the
caucus, all the town halls and the cookouts with the candidates, the voters
trying to get their opinions heard, and the media frenzy surrounding it
all. This year, with Trump leading the race, things are even more insane
Taibbi writes in this issue of "Rolling Stone", "The thing is when you
think about it, it is not funny. Given what`s at stake, it is more like
the opposite. Like the first sign of the collapse of the U.S. as a global
superpower. Twenty years from now when we`re all living in prehistory, as
prehistory hominids and hunting rats with sticks, we`ll probably look back
at this moment as the beginning of the end."
Matt Taibbi back from that trip joins me now.
Matt, whenever I see you, I`ve got to point thumbs up like the bible.
I like the piece.
So, here`s what I want to know. You go every year. Well, every four.
MATT TAIBBI, ROLLING STONE: Every four years.
HAYES: You go every four. There`s a certain -- there is a kind of
pomp and circumstance to the whole thing. And I`ve been out on the
campaign trail. There is something great about how accessible a lot of
people are. I mean, you talk to voters, you talk to the candidates,
they`re all sort of around.
What`s different this time around?
TAIBBI: So, normally, at this time in the campaign, the candidates
are sort of trying stuff out and they`re being very, very conservative.
You know, they will do, they don`t do anything to try to raise a lot of
ripples in the media.
HAYES: It`s the opposite, right? It`s like I am -- it`s like
previews for a Broadway play, right?
HAYES: You`re just, you don`t want the press to come because you`re
ironing out the kinks.
TAIBBI: Right. When I was a student I used to go to comedy clubs in
New York when they were trying stuff out in the afternoons. You know, it`s
very much like that in the campaign trail normally at this time of the
What`s happening with Trump in the race is that -- and the fact there
are so many candidates, is that all these people feel a tremendous pressure
to get into the media and so they`re saying, you know, things that they
know are extremely outlandish in a desperate attempt to create media
headlines. Why was Huckabee doing this crazy thing about maybe sending
troops or the FBI to close abortion clinics, or, you know, Lindsey Graham
going back to Iraq. All of these things.
HAYES: OK. What`s changed that dynamic in the four years since you
were there last?
HAYES: It`s Trump?
TAIBBI: Yes. I mean, I think what`s happening now is that, in the
old days, candidates were very, very afraid of having high negatives, about
doing anything that would sour voters on you. But Trump is completely
flipping that script on its head. What he`s proving is that name
recognition, media recognition, you know, hits on the internet. All of
these things are more important than whether people feel positively or
HAYES: Isn`t that fools gold? I mean, these people have lots of
money behind them, because they`ve all got some sort of, you know, there is
some private equity guy in the background who`s going to write a $10
million check, right?
HAYES: Yes, there are grown-up consultants saying, this may get you a
bump in August. But you will have to live with your oven doors comment,
former Governor Huckabee. That won`t be helpful down the road. It is
fools gold. Don`t go for it.
TAIBBI: Maybe, or maybe this is a new paradigm and this is a new
electorate. Maybe what`s going on with Trump is a real, genuine revolt
against exactly that kind of politics you`re talking about, where the hedge
fund guy is behind the candidate, like Marionette telling him what to say.
Trump represents a rebellion against that. And that`s why people are
supporting him. He is crazy and you wouldn`t want him anywhere near the
nuclear briefcase, but, you know, he is not scripted. And that`s what
voters are responding to.
HAYES: The shtick, the Trump shtick that I like the most is the donor
class trader Trump shtick.
HAYES: Donor class trader Trump shtick is, I used to be a donor. He
said I wrote everybody checks. They want to play golf with me, right?
And, basically, like, your system is bought and paid for. Let me tell
you because I used to be the one doing the purchasing. He loves that line.
TAIBBI: Yes, yes. That went over extremely well I thought in the
debate, the whole thing about Hillary coming to his wedding and all of
that. I mean, it was lifting the veil on the process in a way we don`t see
HAYES: He`s got this response, this feud with Rand Paul. We`re going
to play the ad a little bit later in the program. But he`s got this back
and forth about, you know, basically like, every time someone attacks him,
he is like this person wanted to go play golf with me.
TAIBBI: Right, right, yes.
HAYES: Lindsey Graham, unless his views have changed, you know,
unless you`re a young yielding granite, which is a hilarious phrase.
"Recently, Rand Paul called me and asked me to play golf. I easily beat
him on the golf course and I will even more easily beat him now in the
world in the politics."
TAIBBI: I mean, he is like the Stalin of modern day politics. He`s
like the greatest everything in the world, the greatest golfer, probably
the greatest baseball player, you know? I mean, he`s a piece of art.
TAIBBI: Yes, exactly, exactly.
HAYES: Yes, the big -- the real sort of like concept you`ll bed rock
to me here is, there is this old political science thesis, a book called
"The Party Decides", which is all about the fact that parties, party
establishments choose nominees, right? And there is a question about
whether that is breaking down. And every time we sort of get it, and it`s
like, Bob Dole and then it`s McCain and Romney.
And the question is, is it breaking down now?
TAIBBI: See, that`s the big question. There have been a few moments
where we thought in the past that it was breaking down. Howard Dean was a
HAYES: Right, it snapped right back.
TAIBBI: It snapped right back. This is the book most serious threat
that we`ve seen to this process yet, because whoever those people are who
are controlling the party apparatus, they are completely out to sea with
this Trump thing. They don`t have a backchannel way to get in touch with
And I think, you know, what`s happening is that especially you see
Carson is rising to the polls, too, and Fiorina. That`s a massive
rejection of the party structure, and it`s a really interesting, genuinely
HAYES: Matt Taibbi, thank you very much. Welcome back.
TAIBBI: Thank you.
HAYES: Up next, a quick reminder, the true 2016 battles haven`t even
started yet. FiveThirtyEight`s Nate Silver on why the campaigns are just
And later, a negative "Vanity Fair" profile question, "Love in the age
of Tinder". We will debate the social experiment of dating apps, ahead.
Plus, how Donald Trump slides to the left that some of his fellow
Republican candidates as defender of Planned Parenthood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`ve had many Republican conservative women come up and say,
Planned Parenthood serves a good function other than that one aspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Today, former President Jimmy Carter revealed he has cancer
and will go undergo treatment.
The 39th president in a statement, quote, "Recent liver surgery
revealed that I have cancer that is now in other parts of my body. I will
be rearranging my schedule as necessary so I can undergo treatment by
physicians at Emory Healthcare. More complete public statement will be
made when facts are known, possibly next week."
President Carter, who is 90 years old, had an elective procedure to
remove a small mass from his liver on August 3rd. According to the Carter
Center, it was evidently this procedure which led to the detection of
cancer. Carter has had an active post-presidency, with a long list of
achievements include monitoring the elections of troubled nations, aiding
and vastly expanding the Habitat for Humanity housing organization, and
writing more than two dozen books.
Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his effort to find
peaceful solutions to international conflicts. He has lived longer than
any other U.S. president after leaving the White House. And we, of course,
sincerely wish him well and we`ll keep you posted on his health.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you go back, I mean, it just seems the economy does
better under the Democrats.
TRUMP: Liberal on health care. We have to take care of people that
INTERVIEWER: Universal health coverage?
TRUMP: I love universal.
Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman. I mean, I`m a little
biased because I`ve known her for years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Rand Paul today released a new online ad attacking Donald
Trump by spotlighting many of the less than conservative things Trump has
said in the past. And it`s the sort of thing you can expect to see a lot
more of if he stays in the race much longer.
It may be hard to imagine seeing as we`re already into presidential
debate season, but the general election is 453 days away and the Iowa
caucuses are still 172 days away. That is a long time. In fact, right
now, the candidates and super PACs backing them are largely focused on
raising money, money they can spend to tear down opponents when the time
comes and they will.
In 2012, about $1.92 billion was spent on TV ads alone. A big portion
of them negative.
Think about it this way -- right now, the candidates are drawing
battle lines, amassing their troops and ammo, but no one has really even
begun to fire a single shot. The artillery remains unspent. And when they
do, it will have a huge impact on the race.
You can just ask sitting Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill who today
somewhat strangely revealed that in a 2012 race when she was a long shot
for re-election, she spent $1.7 to engineer victory in the Republican
primary for far right conservative Todd Akin, whose track record, McCaskill
wrote, made him her ideal opponent. McCaskill put out an ad that look like
an attack on Akin but was actually an attempt to boost him in the primary
while disqualifying him with independent voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AD NARRATOR: The most conservative congressman in Missouri as our
Todd Akin, a crusader against bigger government, Akin would completely
eliminate the Departments of Education and Energy and privatize Social
Security. Todd`s pro-family agenda would outlaw many forms of
contraception. And Akin alone says President Obama is a complete menace to
Todd Akin, Missouri`s true conservative is just too conservative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Akin would, of course, go on to win the GOP primary, thanks in large
part to that ad and then lose the general after suggesting the victims of,
quote, "legitimate rape" rarely get pregnant.
McCaskill kept the Senate seat that almost no one thought she would
hang on to.
Joining me now, Nate Silver, editor in chief of FiveThirtyEight, who`s
been chastising the media for overemphasizing polls this early in the
Why you got to be such a bummer, dude?
NATE SILVER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM: It`s August. Not August the
election year but the year before the election. We`ve never seen anything
like this before, there were so much focus on polls so early in the
campaign. As much as we would like to see the drama play itself out, the
fact is you can`t overcome the calendar. We`re half a year until New
Hampshire and Iowa.
If you look back in August of past years, who was winning in this
point in time, it was Rudy Giuliani, Hillary Clinton in 2007.
SILVER: Joe Lieberman, you know, Fred Thompson.
HAYES: OK, let me sort of argue for a second a little bit.
One is that, I do think a lot of rules have been changing. There is a
sort of -- you know, there`s a sort of sense that the future will look like
the past and these are the kinds of rules are. We are not quite -- there
is a lot of things about this that are unprecedented, right? The number of
people on the field, the full flowering of the post-Citizens United primary
with super PACs kind of fully mobilized very early on, meaning that the
kind of money game is very different than it used to be in terms of how
things get decided and whether the money dries up too quickly.
So, there are a lot of ways in which the rules have changed.
SILVER: Well, the fact that there`s 17 candidates in the race is
irrefutable new and unexplored territory, right? If you look at
FiveThirtyEight, I`m really skeptical about Donald Trump`s chances of
winning the nomination, but the fact is there is a likelihood they might
have a very long drawn out nomination process.
Trump we think is probably for now topped out in the polls. But the
people gaining are not the establishment candidates. It`s not Walker, it`s
not Bush, maybe Rubio a bit. But it`s Ben Carson.
HAYES: And Fiorina.
SILVER: Fiorina who is on the fringe of being an establishment or
anti-establishment candidate. But, you know, when the highest a candidate
in a GOP field at 10 percent in the polls, then they have a long way to
sort it out what their nominee is going to be.
HAYES: A big thing to bring it back to ads, I think most people have
a sense, don`t have a real sense, that almost all of what a modern campaign
does is raise money on one side and buy ads on the other. That`s a massive
amount of what --
SILVER: A Republican campaign, Democrats want a turnout operation
like Obama did, or as GOP did in the Bush years.
SILVER: But sometime, you see little bumps in the polls. So, John
Kasich in New Hampshire had a little ad buy. And when you only need to go
from 5 percent to 10 percent to be like second or third place in those
polls, he is buying those ads probably to get a favorable buzz from people
like us, I suppose, who say, look, Kasich has momentum now. You pace for
itself down the road.
HAYES: What do we know about the efficacy of ads? My sense is that,
that effect is not very durable, it doesn`t last very long, but it can
really -- I mean, they really can have an effect. When you start to dump
serious buys into a place, you can really see numbers move.
SILVER: It`s pretty short-lived, right? So, the half life, it
deteriorates really fast, so usually you would conserve your money until
HAYES: This is the key, right?
SILVER: But if you want to create buzz in a 17-cnadidate race and
create momentum. Momentum is usually a fake term when journalists apply
it. But when you want -- you have to make sure people want to volunteer
for your campaign --
HAYES: Or give you money.
SILVER: -- staff for your campaign, give you money, it helps to be on
that primary debate stage and not the jayvee debate.
HAYES: Right. And that`s also made this sort of -- that`s also a new
rule, right? This sort of making this cut-off, the importance of national
polling early on.
But the key thing here is, the normal logic of political ad buys. I
mean, we`re not thinking big multimillion-dollar buys. And we`re not
seeing big negative buys, negative mailers. That will come. And that will
come and that will have a big effect.
SILVER: It will come, you know? People I think should rejoice and
that`s part of the campaign where it is fun and free flowing. Whoever is
the nominee is going to be a very negative campaign next year for the
But, you know, we`re very, very early here. I think there`s more of a
case on the GOP side, we`re in new and fresh territory, than the Democratic
side where, you know, this race looks a lot like 2000, where it was Bradley
versus Al Gore. It`s really boring if you have a candidate seen as
SILVER: But, you know, Clinton has been endorsed by already half the
Democratic Congress. She`s raised lots of money. She has a 30-point lead
in national polls.
Bernie Sanders could win New Hampshire, maybe Iowa.
HAYES: Could win a few states, yes.
SILVER: But the problem then, can he sustain that when you get into
states with a larger minority population?
HAYES: I still do think that there is -- there is a lot about this
that is uncharted. I agree, it`s more uncharted on the GOP side, but I
think it is broadly uncharted. I do think like a lot of the mechanisms of
the past are breaking down in our midst. We saw that a little bit in 2008.
Nate Silver, it`s always a pleasure, man. Great to see you.
SILVER: Thanks, man.
Coming up, in facing the California historic drought, officials have
gotten creative. We will introduce to you shade balls, ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And then the women`s
health issues, I am for that. I will be great on women`s health issues. I
cherish women. And I will be great on women`s health issues. Believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Policy details are possibly forthcoming but Republican
presidential frontrunner Donald Trump has now come out apparently as a
robust defender of women`s health care. His declaration comes amidst the
latest wave of right wing
attacks on Planned Parenthood, a women`s health organization that has a
higher net favorability rating than a number of hopefuls including Donald
A series of undercover videos from an anti-abortion group, have once
again made defunding Planned Parenthood a popular rallying cry among
current batch of
of Republican candidates and many Republican congress members, some
advocating to shut down the entire federal government, the whole thing,
like the shutdown they had before, rather than give federal funding to the
One person who held that position just days ago was one Donald Trump,
but yesterday Trump reversed course suggesting he wouldn`t necessarily
defund the organization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would look at the good aspects of it, and I would also look
-- as I`m sure they do some things properly and good and good for women.
And I would look at that. And I would look at other aspects also. But we
have to take care of women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: All right, and then in front of a troubled Sean Hannity, Trump
went to to defend the organization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, let`s say there are two Planned Parenthoods in a way.
You have it as an abortion clinic, now that is actually a fairly small part
of what they do but it is a brutal part and I`m totally against it. And I
wouldn`t do that.
They also, however, service women. We have to help women. A lot of
women are helped. So, we have to look at the positives also for Planned
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Planned Parenthood, for one, is thrilled it appears for the
Trump support, telling Daily Beast Donald he says banning all abortions,
shutting down the government and defunding Planned Parenthood are extreme
positions that are way too far outside the mainstream for even for him to
Just a reminder, this latest series of statements from Trump puts him
to the left of the other candidates, the establishment main stream
candidates, in the field on the question of whether the government should
defund an organization that provides routine check-ups, cancer screenings
and general health services to millions of women.
HAYES: OK. We`re going to show you something that happened yesterday
in Los Angeles. I want you to take a moment, look at it and try to guess
what is going on here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two, one, shade balls away!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: To really understand what is happening on the video, you need
to understand the severity of California`s historic drought which is
exactly what we tried to get our arms around when we reported extensively
for a week from California for All In American water wars.
The California`s four-year drought has massively depleted the state`s
reservoirs, something we saw firsthand standing in front of Peter`s Canyon
Reservoir in Orange County.
And California officials realized they needed a way to preserve the
state`s diminishing reservoirs, not simply because they provide drinking
water and millions of residents, but because of places that used to be
covered with water have literally turned to dust, and that dust can get
into the air and have a significant impact on air quality.
OK, so officials in Los Angeles decided to fight back with 96 million
shade balls, that is what they are called, they are shade balls, the last
20,000 of which were released into the L.A. reservoir on Monday in that
video you just saw.
City officials say the little black plastic shade balls will reduce
evaporation by shielding the reservoir from the sun and protect the water
light which would help keep the city`s drinking water safe.
Joining me now, Alice Walton, staff writer at The L.A. Times who has
I love when sophisticated adult engineering ideas sound like they were
cooked up by a second grader, like it seems so improbable this is actually
the solution. How did this come about? Whose idea was this? Has this
been tried before?
ALICE WALTON, L.A. TIMES: Right, who knew that you just needed a ball
pit to get people to care about water quality. But this was actually
dreamed up by a biologist for the DWP who was looking for a way to cover
these reservoirs. And he actually took some notes from airports.
He looked at the ponds near air fields and found that they typically
had small plastic balls to keep the birds away. So he saw something
similar and through, hey, we can do this for the reservoirs.
HAYES: OK, so the idea here is this is going on reduce the amount of
evaporation because it will absorb -- it will sort of protect the water
the sun, right? And it will also stop the, you don`t want to get down to
the dust, because there is a real sort of public health risk there?
WALTON: Well, so it does a couple of things. I mean, the biggest
thing that these balls do is help the Department of Water and Power come
into compliance with the EPA`s water quality rules. It will block the sun,
it will stop the spread of algae, and you`re right, it will stop the
evaporation from these reservoirs.
The DWP estimates it will save something like 300 million gallons a
year which is a resource that California really needs right now.
HAYES: So everyone is looking at this and they are saying, I think
same thing which is, what are those made out of? Where were they
manufactured? And is the chemical, the plastic that is in there, going to
stay in there or is it going to leach into the drinking water?
WALTON: That is question that people have. They Department of Water
and Power says that the plastic here is fine. It is actually the same
plastic that you
would find in a one gallon jug of milk at the store. So when you buy milk,
it comes in a plastic jug. It`s the same kind of plastic here.
Now, these 96 million balls actually come from two different
companies. But they do say that the plastic is safe and it`s fine to come
into contact with drinking water.
HAYES: Right, but I mean, the milk jug, I mean I guess I trust them.
I don`t know. But the milk jug you use for a week and then you throw it
away. You don`t leave it outside baking in the hot California sun for
months, years at a time.
WALTON: That`s right. And some people who have seen the coverage of
it has likened it to saying, you know, you wouldn`t a water bottle out in
the sun all day and then think it was safe to drink. And, you know, these
balls will last in the reservoir for up to ten years. But again, the
Department of Water and Power says it is safe. They go through all sorts
of different filtrations and treatments. So, it is not like the water is
going to come straight from the ball pit out into your faucet.
HAYES: How much of a threat, when you say it brought into compliance
with the water quality guidelines of the EPA, what does that mean?
WALTON: So, this is something that actually the Department of Water
and Power has been doing for several years, it just so happens that now
we`re in a drought. But as far back as 2008, the DWP was unleashing these
reservoirs. They`re actually in three other places in Los Angeles.
And so the EPA wants utilities to be covering their reservoirs, and
this was actually a much more effective option. The Los Angeles reservoir
is enormous. It has more than 3 billion gallons of water in it. And DWP
says it actually too large to cover. Their option there would have been to
bifurcate the reservoir and create two covers and that would have been
about ten times the cost as these balls.
So this was kind of seen as the cheaper option if they wanted to cover
HAYES: And can you explain to me why they are black?
WALTON: Yes. So, they have carbon black in them to protect against
the UV rays of the sun. So, it is related to the sunlight. Some people
have asked, well won`t this just capture the sunlight and warm up the
water? DWP says that it does not affect the temperature of the water, it
doesn`t affect the temperature of the air, so that`s why they`re there.
They`re there to protect against the UV rays.
HAYES: There is something kind of like dystopian sci-fi visually
about this that like in all the kind of coverage of the drought, and we
were out there for a week and there are a lot of people who have this kind
of weird kind of Schadenfreude about like the California experiment coming
to an end, but there is something unnerving visually about this image. How
has it gone over in L.A.?
WALTON: Well, it is sort of funny. As I mentioned, they`ve been
doing this for seven years. So, in that sense it was not totally new and
you`ve said, these were the last 20,000 balls of 96 million that went in
there. But it just seems to have exploded on social media, on the web.
And I think it is that visual, you know, there are all sorts of videos and
pictures of the balls. And it does look very funny. It looks like almost
like a ball pit at Chuck E. Cheese.
And so this seem to be what DWP needed to do to get people to care
about water quality and really pay attention to water conservation.
HAYES: I think it is possible people like to say the phrase shade
balls too. Alice Walton, thank you very much.
WALTON: Thank you.
HAYES: Still ahead, Tinder decidedly swiped left. (inaudible)
profile about the dating app this week going on a Twitter tirade. If many
of those words don`t make sense, that`s OK. We will explain it all coming
HAYES: Presidential candidate Jeb Bush and president candidate
Hillary Clinton, perhaps in a state of wishful thinking about still being
their party`s eventual standard bearers, took solid aim at each other on
Twitter apparently with the help of their respective graphics departments
and social media staff.
Hillary Clinton recently unveiled a fairly well reviewed college
education proposal that would make it possible for students to go to a
public college and pay for tuition without incurring student debt, that is
if all of it fell into line.
And she posted this on her campaign`s official Twitter account
indicating the massive amount that 40 million Americans students owe in
student debt to which Jeb responded with this 100 percent the increase in
student debt under this democratic White House.
Oh, no you didn`t.
Hillary camp came back with this. F, the grade given to Florida for
college affordability under Jeb Bush`s leadership.
The Jeb exclamation point campaign then sets its sights elsewhere by
turning the increasingly ubiquitous Hillary Clinton logo into this. And
those little words there are taxes, taxes, taxes, going up, up, up along
with the note @HillaryClinton, fixed your logo for you.
But that online fun and games is nothing compared to Tinder, yes
Tinder, the online dating app that according to Vanity Fair is destroying
the joys of dating as we once knew it. And that`s ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE LEWIS: There are countless places where strangers can meet via
computer, all it takes is a hookup to the internet, or one of the online
The big difference between meeting in person and meeting someone
online is a level of security and anonymity. They might know your logon
name and they might know your email address but they really don`t know you,
and a word of caution, you don`t know them either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It was the 1990s, America didn`t quite know what to do with
online dating. Strangers meeting on message boards and then sometimes in
person. And in the decades since the advent of chat rooms, the country has
mostly come to terms with the practice only to be confronted with a new way
for people to connect smartphone dating apps, the most notorious of those
Downloadable app. You can flip through pictures of dozens of people
at a time, along with some basic bio information like name and age. And if
you aren`t interested you simply swipe to the left, that banishes the
person from your feed. Say you find the person attractive or something
about the profile intriguing you can swipe right. If that person has also
swiped right, it`s a match and you can start talking and maybe meet up.
Now, if that sounds awesome or dystopic to you, the later, well a new
article from Vanity Fair will confirm your worst fears. The piece pants
the picture of a digital meat market where sex, intimacy and dating have
all been destroyed. One young investment banker told a reporter, quote --
and this is by far the best quote in the piece -- it`s like ordering
Seamless but you`re ordering a person.
A marketing executive confessed, quote, sex has become so easy. I can
go on my phone right now and no doubt I can final someone I can have sex
with this evening, probably before midnight.
A young -- someone told the author, quote, they start out with send me
nudes or they say something like I`m looking for something quick, within
the next 10 or 20 minutes. Are you available? It`s straight efficiency.
The folks at Tinder upon reading the article took to Twitter to defend
themselves form what they felt was an unfair article in a series of
increasingly unhinged tweets from their official account, ending with,
quote, it`s not going to dissuade us from building something that is
changing the world #GenerationTinder.
The company later said they had overreacted which sometimes happens on
Twitter or on Tinder.
The bottom line is this, Tinder is part of an actual massive social
experiment that we are running. It is now possible for people to use this
device that you have with at all times right there burning a hole in your
pocket to find romantic and sexual connections whenever, at any time, any
place. And that is having a really profound effect on behavior. Some
good, some bad. And we will debate what it means next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, if you`re single and having trouble finding
a date, you may be looking, as the song says, in all the wrong places.
These days thousands are cruising the internet hoping to find romance in
Jennifer Toure (ph) is a dance instructor who lives in New York City.
A few months ago she joined an internet dating service call Match.com.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I first logged on, it was kind of exciting
to think that maybe I could meet somebody on the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Jesse Singal, he`s editor of New York
Magazine`s Social Science website. Emily Witt, author of the forthcoming
book "Future Sex: A New Kind of Free Love."
OK, I`m going to play the role of grandpa for the next few minutes
here, OK? And tell all the kids to get off my lawn.
Slightly tongue-in-cheek but actually a little bit.
So, let`s just start with Tinder, OK. There`s a little moral panic in
the Vanity Fair, whatever. But like can I just say that I`ve seen
dehumanizing about the mechanism of swipe right and swipe right, like
people are baseball cards that you`re just like tossing around and the fact
that it`s in your phone it`s like a video game but there are people
attached to it.
Am I wrong to feel unnerved by that?
EMILY WITT, AUTHOR: What would you do when you go to a party and
you`re looking to meet somebody? Would you go -- you`re kind of doing the
same process in your head. It`s not sort of...
HAYES: You`re doing the same thing, right.
WITT: Maybe more subconsciously than that.
HAYES: Right, but can you imagine a world in which we evolved the
norms in which like you actually like make a finger swipe X like physically
in front of people.
WITT: It would be too traumatic. Nobody would use that app.
HAYES: Right. OK. So, why is it that. I guess that`s part of the
here, right. Like ultimately, all of this is about matching, right?
So, the question is, like if it is efficiently matching people, is
that a good thing or a bad thing?
JESSE SINGAL, NEW YORK MAGAZINE; Yeah.
I think in her article Sales (ph) only looked at sort of hyperactive,
hyper promiscuous users, like it seemed like she went out of her way to
find frankly the douchiest people possible.
And I think we all know people who use Tinder and grinder and these
other sites in a lot of different ways. Like, I know people who are
married from having met on these sites.
HAYES: Right. But there is also this idea that there is, and this
seem to me a deeper critique. Like, you`re working on a book about sort of
the future of sex.
HAYES: And it does seem to me that like we are running a big social
experiment in which the transaction costs have been dramatically reduced to
economic term. So like it is just all there, constant. And I know people
that use dating websites and say you can fall into this kind of like almost
like video gameesque compulsive searching mentality, because the app is re-
creating some kind of like mental circuitry that you have of like, playing
Tetrus or something. Has that been your experience at all?
WITT: I wouldn`t say that`s my experience. I mean I still think most
people are looking for a connection. It can become a thing that you do
when you`re bored like anything else on the internet. It becomes
But I still think most people are on it because they don`t want to be
sitting at home by themselves looking at Tinder, they want to be out in the
world having a conversation or meeting somebody that they might actually
HAYES: But do you think it is doing anything different than any other
kind of technology, right. So you can say like when the telephone came
along, people, you can imagine being like we`re not going -- no one writes
love letters like they used to. And like love letters are this great art
form and no one does it anymore. Now people just talk on the phone.
Like, is that what`s happening? Or is there something distinct about
the power of the technology?
WITT: I think -- you know, I think part of thing that`s confusing
about Tinder is they actually designed all of these sites so that they
don`t, on Tinder you don`t have to declare what you`re looking for, you
don`t have to declare you`re
sexual orientation. So there`s a way in which people go in with certain
When I was writing it, a lot of people would ask me what they were
supposed to be using it for. So there is a way in which some people might
read an article in Vanity Fair and say oh this is a hook-up app.
HAYES: I see.
Right, there was a little bit of an expectation this was actually just
about sex or physical intimacy as opposed to some broader sense of like
finding the one.
And what`s confusing is there aren`t rituals encoded in the
technologies. When you go on a date, there is like this old-fashioned
thing that you get to do. This, we haven`t figured out those ethics and
those rituals and those habits. And that`s kind of what`s happening now
and people are trying all kinds of things.
HAYES: What do you mean by that? So there`s like norms and
expectations that are set in the world of dating that have not been
established yet here?
WITT: Yeah. I mean, maybe if you talk to a 24-year-old Wall Street
he`ll be using it to rack up casual sex.
HAYES: By midnight like Cinderella.
WITT: Yeah apparently. And I mean, it`s funny, because these people
are not known for their modesty or their honesty. And we never really
heard anything from the people that they met up with.
But you know, on the other hand, I mean, I have so many friends that
use Tinder looking for something more meaningful. They have people in
their life already that if they want to have casual sex, they can go meet
those people. What they`re online to meet, you know, new people.
HAYES: You write in the piece about the sort of idea of moral panic.
And I was reading -- there is some data showing that actually teen sexual
declined recently? And there is some theory that like actually sexting,
which is like the great scourge of news shows, is actually like an outlet
that is actually reducing actual teen sexual activity.
SINGAL: Yeah. I mean, whatever is going on, this isn`t a dating
apocalypse, which is how she described it. Like, Millennials in general
seem -- the number of sex partners is either stable or going down, that`s
what all the best evidence says. This isn`t an Apocalypse.
HAYES: Right, the actual sexual behavior of Millennials and teens is
actually not -- promiscuity is not skyrocketing. In fact there is some
evidence to suggest that actually the number of partners going down and
teen pregnancy rates are going down. So maybe, you know, maybe smartphones
will deliver us all to a bright future of loving monogamy.
Jesse Singal and Emily Witt, thanks for being here.
That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right
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