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All In With Chris Hayes, Friday, August 14th, 2015

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Date: August 14, 2015
Guest: Robert Costa, Dave Weigel, Michelle Goldberg, Charles Pierce, Jason
Bailey, Kierna Mayo, Jennifer Gunter

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris

And you are looking right now at live pictures of two big political
events right now kicking off, what promises to be the biggest, busiest
campaign weekend of the 2016 race so far.

On the right, Hampton, New Hampshire, where Donald Trump is just
wrapping up a big campaign rally speech and press Q&A.

On the left, the Iowa Democratic Wing Ding dinner, where four
presidential candidates are about to take stage. The front runner, Hillary
Clinton, Bernie Sanders, who is nipping at her heels, even leading in a
current poll in New Hampshire, though far behind in Iowa, followed by
Martin O`Malley and Lincoln Chafee. We`re awaiting those remarks. We`ll
bring you some of it live throughout this hour. Don`t go anywhere.

Before Trump`s campaign event tonight in New Hampshire, where he holds
a significant lead in the polls, the candidate talked to the press for the
second time this week, sounding off on Jeb Bush and campaign finance.


Hillary and all these people, they have a lot of money. They raised a lot
of money from my friends. I used to be one of them. I contribute to
everybody. And they`re always there for me.

But that`s not good for the country. That`s not good as a system.
But Jeb has raised $114 million, approximately. Everybody that puts money
up for Jeb Bush, it`s like he`s a puppet. He`s totally controlled by these


HAYES: At the rally moments ago, he told supporters a story about the
impressive infrastructure he once encountered on a trip to Qatar.


TRUMP: I went into an airline terminal that was the most beautiful
terminal I have ever seen, ever, the most magnificent. They had lounges,
they had spas. They had spas before you get on the plane. You can get a
massage. I`m not into that, though. I don`t like people touching me.
It`s true. It`s true.


HAYES: Tomorrow, Trump heads to Iowa, where a major rite of passage
for presidential candidates is already underway in Des Moines, the Iowa
state fair -- political center of gravity this weekend with candidates from
both parties passing through to mingle with voters, eat fried food, enjoy
some free media coverage.

True to form, Trump is planning to make a big entrance, arriving by
helicopter tomorrow afternoon. His campaign tells NBC News they`re
optimistic he`ll be able to give free rides to kids at the fair, a proposal
that was initially quashed by organizers.

The campaign also made sure to note, quote, "he will be seeing the
butter cow," widely held to be the fair`s star attraction.

Trump will not be making an appearance at the soapbox, where
candidates get to make their pitch directly to voters. It`s sponsored to
the "Des Moines Register," with whom Trump has been feuding ever since they
published an editorial calling him to, quote, "pull the plug" on his
bloviating sideshow, even going so far to bar their reporters from campaign
event. That`s Trump.

Joining me now, Robert Costa and Dave Weigel, both national political
reporters for "The Washington Post."

All right. Dave, here`s what I think is fascinating, the further this
goes on. I just tweeted that this campaign is taking shape to be the
platform of Ross Perot in the tone of Rush Limbaugh. It`s got all of the
kind of insult, comic, kind of angry, dismissive tone of right-wing talk
radio. To the extent there`s any ideology, it`s sort of this all over the
map, build up America, I want to do infrastructure, you know, we stayed in
Iraq too long, we want to bring the troops home. You know, we should put
on tariffs on Mexico.

It`s completely outside of the kind of ideological boxes that the rest
of the Republican primary is working in.

DAVE WEIGEL, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think it is. And actually,
before Trump got to Michigan this week and a little while after he left, I
got there and hung around Flynt, Michigan, that has been famous by Michael
Moore`s documentary about what happened to the auto industry there.

I met a lot of voters, who did not go to see Trump, but when I
mentioned Trump`s name, agreed with his protectionism. They wanted
somebody, first of all, to say the things he`s been saying about putting
tariffs on China to talking about the currency flow. I mean, that`s not
something you were hearing that much about this week in politics.

And they also believe that his leadership kills were attuned to the
problems we`ve had. That nobody in office, who`s been bought off by
lobbyists, and I heard that phrase a lot, bought off by lobbyists, would
fight China, Mexico, the rest the way he did. And I heard people who said
they liked Bill Clinton, they liked Ronald Reagan. They also like Donald

HAYES: This is the kind of billionaire populist sale, which is part
of the Ross Perot sale is, because I`m self-funding, no one owns me. And
he keeps talks about campaigning finance, he`s hilariously on his terms
about, they`re all puppets.

This is him talking about this summer. And, Bob, I want you to
respond to this, because you`ve got great reporting about what the campaign
ground game looks like. Take it a listen to Trump talking about the summer
of Trump.


TRUMP: I was called by one of the biggest journalists in the world
the other day. He said, "Mr. Trump, could I ask you a question?" "What?"
"How does it feel? How does it feel?"

I said, "How does what feel?" He said, "You have done something that
nobody else has ever done. You`ve taken over television. You`ve taken
over the airways. It`s the summer of Trump."

You know, they`re calling it the summer of Trump. No. OK.

And I said -- and this is a highly respected guy, an amazing guy. And
I said, I haven`t done anything, because I haven`t won. I mean, if this
all happens and I don`t win, it starts with winning the primaries, getting
the nomination, and then going on and winning. I consider it a total waste
of time.


HAYES: OK, Bob, a lot of people are watching this and thinking this
is some kind of put-on and you`re seeing right now, we`ve got Trump
speaking in New Hampshire, we`ve got that Wing Dings event in I believe
that`s Clear Wayne, Iowa, where we`ll be seeing the Democrats candidates
soon, Clear Lake, Iowa.

Bob, you have some reporting on Trump`s actual campaign
infrastructure, which I found pretty surprising. What did you learn in
reporting about what actually is going on on the ground there in Iowa?

ROBERT COSTA, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, one lesson I`ve learn
covered this campaign is, never assume anything. I got off the phone an
hour ago with Donald Trump, had about a 20-minute interview with him. He
said, in early September, he`s going to be rolling out an immigration
policy paper. He`s talking to Senator Jeff Sessions about it, one of those
arch conservative border hawks. Then he`s going to have a tax plan that
focuses on inversion, making sure that corporations come back to the United
States to pay taxes.

So, he`s going to have policy coming out right before the second
debate. And in Iowa, he has Rick Santorum`s guy, Chuck Launder, building
this elaborate ground game, running this bus, a big blue Trump bus around
the state, going Walmart parking lot by Walmart parking lot to pick up

HAYES: OK, wait, but is this elaborate? Is this a con? So he hired
-- honestly, he hired the Santorum guy. Santorum won Iowa last time. But
is there anything there? Is there a "there" there? Is there an actual

I mean, you can`t win the caucus on, you know, speeches and interviews
given from your hotel lobby.

COSTA: That`s exactly right. You can`t just run a media campaign to
win in Iowa. And Chuck Lauder`s argument is, in the same way that
President Obama was able to bring in new voters in 2007 in the Iowa
caucuses, Trump`s reaching out to voters who are almost apolitical. Those
kind of Ross Perot style voters. A lot of -- the first question a lot of
these people ask when they come to the Trump bus is, what is a caucus?
They`re not even participating in previous cycles.

HAYES: This is Trump from earlier. This is part of the shtick here
too, which has also been the sort of marrying this -- I don`t even know
what you would call it, the extent there`s an ideological vision there with
the kind of insult comic shtick. This is him on the mayor of Boston, Marty
Walsh. Take a listen.


REPORTER: On a lighter note, Boston Mayor Marty Walsh has challenged
you to take the ice bucket challenge. Is that something you`ll do?

TRUMP: Look, he`s a clown, Marty Walsh. I don`t even know who he is.
This guy Marty Walsh, he spends all this time and effort and money on an
Olympic bid and then goes out and is talking about an ice bucket challenge.
Get a real mayor.


HAYES: Dave, I love the fact he`s like, I don`t know who this guy is,
and proceeds to show, of course, he knows who he is and exactly what he`s

WEIGEL: Also, Trump has done the ice bucket challenge. I know this
because I watched the video in which for some reason Trump bottles of water
are added to the ice bucket, even though that is water in a different form
than ice.

You know, actually keying off what Bob was just saying about Chuck
Launder`s organization, when I saw Trump in Michigan, there was not much of
an organization on the ground there. Not as early as it has in the past,
but a fairly early primary state. Trump has been very reactive of the
criticism he gets in the press. And I honestly wonder if the "Wall Street
Journal" piece this week talking about the lack of ground game he has in
some of these states is going to spur more of it, because that is -- he
operates like any predator who`s being threatened.

I would also add that Ross Perot, to continue to comparison, which I
think is apt, he had one of the best ground games in history. He had
people getting him on the ballot in 50 states. You don`t need to start
hiring staff sometimes. You can have people inspired to work to you. And
to the surprise of many, Trump is starting to have that.

HAYES: I also think another area where this shtick is at a kind of
right angle to Republican ideologies on campaign finance -- I mean, the
thing that I find most fascinating about his routine so far is the donor
class trader routine. I was a donor, I know how it works. You give these
people money, they`re puppets for you. I`m the only one independent.

This is him talking about campaign finance and the current Citizens
United regime. Take a listen.


TRUMP: I love the idea of campaign finance reform. And one of the
things you should do is, everybody should be known. If somebody gives $1
million or $2 million or $5 million, it should be known.

And I will tell you this nonsense with PACs, where they have millions
of dollars raised, $100 million raised, and they don`t coordinate with the
other people. I mean, Bush puts his best friend in there, they don`t talk.
You`re not allowed to talk. Do you really believe that that doesn`t


HAYES: Bob, A, he`s completely right. B, this critique, I think, is
a critique that actually has some traction across the political spectrum.
It`s the kind of thing where -- you know, if you talk to someone in a bar
anywhere in the country, you talk about, you know, rich people buying up
the system, that`s not a particularly like lefty idea. And number three,
it is absolutely outside of the ideological mainstream of the Republican
Party currently, which is very much committed to waging war on campaign
finance reform.

COSTA: Trump is not running an ideological campaign. I think that`s
shocking a lot of people, because the Republican Party, for the past five
years, in the Tea Party era, has become fervently ideological. And as you
say, part of his ideological project to move the party to the right, to
commit itself to certain principles, and that`s just not something Trump`s
interested in. He`s running a non-ideological campaign that picks and
chooses based on his personality, based on his career.

And it`s really about someone who`s just going to make a deal. He
constantly talks on the phone today about how he wants to bring Democrats
and Republicans together just to get something done. To people out there
who are frustrated with the press, it seems to be connecting, but it`s
still early.

HAYES: Dave, because this is not an ancillary concern to the Koch
brothers and to the donor class that makes up the kind of center of the
current conservative movement, this anonymous donations, getting rid of
Citizens United, this is actually something they have fought a long war to
achieve and they want to keep fighting.

WEIGEL: Yes, they`ve got the rest of the conservative movement to
argue that free speech equals infinite spending and Trump is challenging
that. I mean, part of this almost reminds me that FDR being a traitor to
his class. That has resonance to people, when someone like Larry Lessig
for all the beauty of the Ted talk, makes the argument, it sounds a bit
more remote, more academic.

I would like to see if Trump keeps saying this, because he`s said for
a while that Jeb Bush will owe favors to everyone who gives him money. If
that connects, that is another thing that completely contradicts where a
lot of the libertarian-leaning money that has been freed up since Citizens
United, that contradicts everything they`ve been programming in the
movement to say.

HAYES: All right. Bob and Dave, I want you to hold on for a second
because joining me now from Clear Lake, Iowa, is Kasie Hunt. That`s the
other big political hot spot tonight. Kasie is MSNBC`s political

And, Kasie, it looks like Hillary has taken the stage there, the first
of the candidates to go. What is the event there tonight?

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Chris, this is the annual
wing ding event that the Democratic Party throws a to the Surf Ballroom,
which, of course, you may know for being the last venue Buddy Holly ever
played before he was killed in that plane crash. And this is a regular
famous stop for Democratic politicians along the way, and this is a rare
opportunity for us to see Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O`Malley
and even Lincoln Chafee all together in the same room at the same time,
talking to the same crowd, a chance to compare them all against each other.

As we were coming in, you had noisy groups, competing groups of
Hillary supporters and O`Malley supporters. The O`Malley supporters were
particularly noisy, I will say, compared to my experience with him
yesterday at the fair, where most people were trailing behind the few
cameras and boom mics that are following him and asking, who is that guy?

So, a little bit -- a little bit of a disconnect there. But I think
it`s going to be interesting to see how this crowd reacts to Bernie Sanders
versus Hillary Clinton. That`s really been the story that`s been going on,
on the ground here in Iowa, is this idea that people are really looking for
someone who`s an outsider. You`re seeing that in the polls on the
Republican side and also on the Democratic side.

We`re going to get a chance to see Bernie Sanders at the fair
tomorrow. Obviously, Donald Trump is planning on touching down in that
helicopter of his. And we`re hearing that he may actually be allowed to
give children rides on the helicopter. We had initially heard that that
was going to be off-limits.

So, I think that what we`re going to see tomorrow is a spectacle
beyond what, frankly, the Iowa state fair has ever seen before, despite the
fact that it`s essentially hallowed ground and that many, many presidents
have trod the fields out here, Chris.

HAYES: All right. Kasie Hunt, let`s take a listen for a second to
see what Hillary`s reception is like inside that Wing Dings dinner in Clear
Lake, Iowa. Take a listen.

a blow to Iran`s economy and gave us the leverage necessary to get to the
negotiating table and begin the first preliminary talks.

Now, thanks to President Obama, Secretary Kerry and Secretary Moniz,
we have an agreement that blocks Iran`s pathways to a bomb and gives us new
tools for verification and inspection.

HAYES: Hillary Clinton touting the Iran deal very early in the speech
before a largely friendly crowd at the Democratic event in Clear Lake,
Iowa. Donald Trump still going with his rally in Hampton, New Hampshire.

And, Dave, you were in Iowa. How do you think the state fair is going
to receive the Donald?

WEIGEL: I think warmly. When you bring up his name to people, at
this point, still, the controversy is that the media has focused on are not
the controversies that people who know Donald Trump have been aware of.
What Kasie just said about Martin O`Malley, you can carry that sentiment
pretty far. You would think that voters at this point might know that
Martin O`Malley is running for president. Most of them don`t.

In the same vein, people do not care very much about Donald Trump`s
gaffes and they are impressed. People, especially in more blue-collar
areas, are incredibly impressed when someone like Donald Trump takes the
time to visit them. So, I`m going to be literally out of the country for
this, and I think I will still be hearing about Trump at the state fair.

HAYES: Robert Costa and Dave Weigel, thank you both for joining us.

Don`t go anywhere. We`ll have much more coverage of the Wing Ding
dinner, coming up.

Plus, I will talk to the woman who exposed Dr. Ben Carson`s hypocrisy
on Planned Parenthood later. And later, a special ALL IN movies edition
with an in-depth look at the cultural phenomenon that is straight out of
Compton. Those stories and more, ahead.


HAYES: Our live coverage of the Democratic dinner in Iowa continues
with Hillary Clinton before attendees.

But first, her successor at the State Department, John Kerry today,
became the first U.S. secretary of state to visit Cuba in 70 years. A flag
of the United States of America rose today at the ceremony to mark the
opening of the American embassy in Cuba. The embassy had officially
reopened last month, but today`s ceremony was notable in part because three
retired marines who lowered the American flag 54 years ago when the embassy
closed in 1961 participated in today`s event.

Secretary Kerry and his Cuban counterpart vowed to expand cooperation
between their two countries. Kerry later meeting with a group of
dissidents, taking some pictures. It`s a testimony to the sheer scope of
the Obama presidency`s historical significance that ending a half century
of failed Cuba policy after so much resistance and when it seems so
impossible for so long, that that policy accomplishment may not even rank
in the ten topmost transformative things this administration has done.



TRUMP: Actually, Carly was a little nasty to me. Be careful, Carly.
Be careful. But I can`t say anything to her, because she`s a woman, and I
don`t want to be accused of being tough on woman. I can`t do that, right?
Can I do that?

Women, am I allowed to fight back? Huh? Am I allowed? She`s been a
little nasty to me.

So, I promised that I wouldn`t say -- and I said to myself. I
promised I wouldn`t say that she ran Hewlett-Packard into the ground. I
said, I will not say it. That her stock value tanked. That she laid off
tens of thousands of people. And she got viciously fired. I said, I will
not say that.


HAYES: That`s Donald Trump just moments ago in Hampton, New
Hampshire, talking about Carly Fiorina. Fact check, largely true,
basically about her record at Hewlett-Packard.

Joining me now, Michelle Goldberg from "The Nation", and from Iowa,
Charles Pierce, who`s politics blogger for, in Iowa tonight, of
course, in Clear Lake, Iowa, about a half hour away from the Des Moines
state fair, there is the Wing Dings Dinner, where Hillary Clinton has been
addressing the crowd. We`re going to hear also from Bernie Sanders, Martin
O`Malley, and Lincoln Chafee.

Michelle, I find the fight that`s happening between Trump supporters
and the rest of the Republican Party about political correctness
fascinating, because they are being devoured by a monster of their own
creation. They have created a belief system whereby any attacks on anyone
for saying offensive, loudish, disgusting things are, by definition,
political correctness, and not legitimate. So, when they try to apply
that, then they are sort of hoisted by their own petard.

MICHELLE GOLDBERG, THE NATION: And I think even more than that, and
Rick Perlstein has written about the extent to which so much of modern
Republicanism is about deflecting guilt or, you know, he talked about
Reagan being -- having this liturgy of absolution, where he`s saying, you
know, all these people are trying to make you feel guilty or trying to make
you --

HAYES: Right.

GOLDBERG: And Trump is saying, you can get rid of that. He`s
unleashed your political id. You know, every kind of -- every sort of like
nativist impulse that you`ve been told to repress, every sort of sexist
impulse that you`ve been told to repress --

HAYES: Embrace it!

GOLDBERG: Yes, exactly.

HAYES: Charlie, what do you make, as Hillary Clinton takes the stage
tonight, as the front runner, she is -- we should put some context here,
right? Again, we should put some context here, right? Nationally, she`s
polling massively ahead. Bernie Sanders has been getting huge crowds, he`s
raising a lot of grassroots money. He is ahead of her in the latest poll
in New Hampshire. There`s significant movement for him.

But in the broad context, if you had to bet money on who would be the
next nominee at this point, there`s Hillary Clinton, what do you make of
the Biden noise that we have heard in the last few weeks, and what that
would do to the race?

CHARLES PIERCE, ESQUIRE.COM: Well, first of all, may I just say,
hello, baby! I`m a little carried away by the ambience here at the Surf

I think what accounts for the -- what accounts for the buzz we`re
getting is that it`s August. And people are bored. And it`s August and
nobody`s returning phone calls, because everybody`s in the Hamptons.

I don`t think Al Gore is going to run. I have no idea what Joe Biden
is doing, as explained to me by whatever anonymous people are talking to
whoever, his idea of being a one-term president sounds like the dumbest
thing he`s ever done in his career, because if you`re a one-term president,
you`re lame duck as soon as your hand is off the bible.

So, you know, I think it`s easy to speculate. You know, Mrs. Clinton
is bedeviled by these leaks about whatever the e-mails is supposed to be
about. And right now, it`s a boring time in history and it`s worth talking
about. That`s my take on it, anyway.

HAYES: See, I think that`s probably true about the Gore speculation.
But the Biden people, look, Josh Alcorn, who is Beau Biden`s staffer, was
in here yesterday. I mean, that is real. Like, those leaks that are
coming from the Biden people aren`t coming unauthorized. That`s from the
Biden people. The Biden people are putting out leaks.

GOLDBERG: Right, and some of them --

HAYES: Running up the flagpole saying this is what we are thinking of

GOLDBERG: And the fact that this is what his son asked him to do on
his deathbed, that`s some emotional hardball, you know? So, yes, I agree
with Charles and I don`t think it`s particularly serious --

HAYES: You don`t think it is?

GOLDBERG: Well, I don`t -- I think --

HAYES: I don`t think it is, but I`m now coming to believe -- I mean,
I don`t understand why they`re going --

GOLDBERG: Here`s what frightens me about it, the fact that they`re
putting out feelers, suggest that there is a greater degree of unease and
panic about Hillary Clinton`s candidacy than maybe we`ve been aware of,
right? Why else would they do it unless they spotted an opening, which
suggests that there is some -- that elites are thinking that we need a plan

HAYES: I don`t -- Charles --

PIERCE: And to be -- to be perfectly fair, though, if there`s one
politician in America, who you could see jumping into a race late with no
money and virtually no staff, just because it`s fun to be in politics, it`s
Joe Biden.

HAYES: That`s true. That is true. And I think this is also someone

PIERCE: I mean, he really -- he really enjoys stuff like this

HAYES: Yes, exactly! I think he -- I absolutely agree that Joe Biden
is looking at the Wing Dings dinner, probably sitting, watching us right
now -- hello, Mr. Vice President -- and thinking to himself, this is --
that looks fun! It looks fun to be out in Clear Lakes, Iowa. It looks fun
to be talking to people.

I think he genuinely loves doing that. He`s been doing it for four
years. The guy has been a politician for the duration of his life, you
know, for his adult life. He`s now contemplating the end of that in, you
know, a year and a half. And I wouldn`t be surprised if he has people
around him saying, hey, go for it.

GOLDBERG: My understanding is that he likes that stuff, but that he
hates raising money. And you know, and that he hates the sort of
muckraking part of the process and he`s got to know that that`s what`s in
front of him.

HAYES: Charlie, the Clinton campaign put out a memo that I thought
was pretty good and persuasive basically about, look, you know, it`s
August, and people are trying to make mountains out of mole hills, as far
as where the state of this race is. We have a plan, we`re sticking to it.

I, so far, from a just sort of tactical standpoint, have been
impressed with the campaign with the fact it really does seem to have a
plan, it does seem to be quite well-run. Do you think -- what do you make
of the sort of Sanders momentum that there is and we`ll probably be hearing
a little bit from Bernie later in the evening?

PIERCE: Yes, well, I think -- I think, obviously, there`s a great and
powerful and not to be ignored progressive wing to the Democratic Party,
for the first time in a very long time. And it`s represented not only by
Bernie Sanders, but by Elizabeth Warren, by Sherrod Brown, by some people
in the House. And I think -- you know, this is something to which some
attention must be paid.

Now, my problem with the Clinton campaign is the same problem I had
with them in 2008, which is that it doesn`t corner very well. It doesn`t
react to the unexpected very well. It`s turning it around is like trying
to turn around that aircraft carrier. They`ve got all this staff and they
seem to be a little bit better at it this time, but still, they seem to get
it wrong footed an awful lot.

HAYES: Let`s take a listen right now to secretary of state -- former
secretary of state, Hillary Clinton.

CLINTON: -- and it`s also economic growth strategy!


You know, this isn`t complicated. When you shortchange women, you
shortchange families, and when you shortchange families, you shortchange

And I know when I talk about this, some people think, there she goes
again, with the women`s issues, like Mitch McConnell said recently, I`m
playing the gender card.

Well, if calling for equal pay and paid leave is playing the gender
card, then deal me in!


And let me add, if helping more working parents find quality,
affordable child care is playing the gender card, then I`m ready to ante
up. Let`s take this fight to them!

If Republicans think they`re going to win this election by demeaning
or dividing women, then they`re the ones not playing with a full deck.


So we all know, we all know we`re going up against some pretty
powerful forces that will say, do, and spend whatever it takes to stop me
and stop you. We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that
is distorting our election, corrupting our political process, drowning out
the voices --

HAYES: Hillary Clinton hitting a note right there, about
unaccountable money, echoed earlier by Donald Trump. The two of them
apparently agree on that. Also doing a riff about paid leave, sick leave,
family leave for families and for women, talking about Mitch McConnell
accusing her of playing the gender card. A very interesting snippet of an
evolving stump speech from candidate Clinton, in which she is centering
issues around family leave and paid leave and women`s leave in this

Michelle Goldberg, Charlie Pierce, thank you both for joining me
tonight. I really appreciate it.

PIERCE: Thank you, Chris, and I apologize, I`m sweating like Nixon.

HAYES: Still ahead, we`ll have more coverage of the Wing Ding Dinner.

And later, a little fast check on Ben Carson`s stance on fetal issue
research, coming up.


HAYES: Hillary Clinton continuing to address the attendees at
the Wing Ding Dinner in Iowa. She`s been unveiling parts of her stump
speech, just went through a riff defending herself from charges of non-
transparency or wrongdoing on Benghazi or emails. We`re expecting Bernie
Sanders to speak in just a little bit.

Now Republican presidential candidates, one of the issues they have
been focusing on, falling all over themselves to attack the women`s health
organization, Planned Parenthood, following the release of a series of
undercover videos that show Planned Parenthood employees discussing the
organization`s role in providing fetal tissue for use in medical research.

This has become an absolutely huge issue on the right, with some
conservatives even threatening to shut down the government, the entire
government, over Planned Parenthood`s federal funding.

And one of the GOP`s leading presidential candidates, neurosurgeon Ben
Carson, has harshly criticized Planned Parenthood and played down the
importance of fetal tissue research, arguing that, quote, "there`s nothing
that can`t be done without fetal tissue when it comes to medical research."

And yet, as we learned two days ago, thanks to OB/GYN Jennifer Gunter,
it turns out Carson himself has done medical research on fetal tissue.

Carson and his colleagues published a paper detailing the research in
1992, which notes that they used tissue from, quote, two fetuses aborted at
the 9th and 17th week of gestation.

Carson appeared on Fox News last month to discuss those undercover
Planned Parenthood videos. And the conversation turned to a fetus at 17
weeks, the same gestational age as the fetal tissue Carson did research on
back in 1992.


have very good ultrasound techniques, even have the ability to
endoscopically look at these little human beings...

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NOEWS: This is a 17-weeker.

CARSON: they`re developing.

At 17 weeks, you know, you`ve got a nice little nose and little
fingers and hands and the heart`s beating and it can respond to
environmental stimulus. I mean, how can you believe that that`s just an
irrelevant mass of cells? And that`s what they want you to believe, when,
in fact, it is a human being.


HAYES: Earlier today, I spoke to Dr. Jennifer Gunter, the OB/GYN who
brought Carson`s fetal tissue research to light. I asked her about the
usefulness of fetal
tissue research.


DR. JENNIFER GUNTER, OB/GYN: Well, first of all, we wouldn`t know
anything about congenital abnormalities, we wouldn`t know -- we would be
very far behind just in medicine in general without it. So when we learn
how to operate on children with birth defects, when we learn how to do
things, we`re informed by a large history of people having studied this
with fetal tissue.

But then there`s also advances for science, for developing vaccines,
for looking at specifically the neuroscientists who sent me the article,
you know, talked about research with Parkinson`s and Alzheimer`s and ALS.

And so it`s very important for that. And just this week in the "New
England Journal of Medicine," the leading medical journal, there was an
impassioned piece
about how important this is.

So, you know, I don`t do this kind of research, but I, like you and
everybody else, you know, benefits from it.

HAYES: Now, Dr. Carson has sort of been confronted with the fact that
he has published research that used fetal tissue samples, and he`s given a
variety of
answers. I`m going to play you one and ask you to respond to it.


HAYES: This is him having a conversation with a reporter about this.
Take a listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you change your decision about whether
to use fetal tissue or not?

CARSON: To not use the tissue that is in the tissue bank, regardless
of where it comes from, would be foolish. Why would anybody not do that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you wan this now if you`re saying that
it`s not essential?

CARSON: That`s a very different thing from killing babies,
manipulating them, taking their tissues, selling them. That`s a very
different thing. To try to equate those two things is absolutely

HAYES: So, doctor, he seems to be saying that what he did was --
there was already tissue in a bank that came from, I don`t know where, that
was independent
of this process, and that`s definitely different than what has sort of
attracted scrutiny vis-a-vis Planned Parenthood. Your response?

GUNTER: Well, I think maybe he should toddle on down to his pathology
lab and ask them where they got the specimens. I mean, seriously, the
specimens come from somewhere. So they don`t just appear.

And since, you know, this isn`t something that is done for profit.
It`s possible those were very old specimens that had been in his pathology
lab for 20 years, 30 years. I mean, people do, you know -- specimens are
kept. And so it`s possible that, you know, when people are retrieving,
they see what`s in a tissue bank, so they don`t need to get new.

Obviously, that saves money with research and it`s always good to use
what you have.

But all of the new donations for fetal tissue are creating that same
thing. They`re creating the same tissue banks that Dr. Carson`s research
team went to. So, again, it`s a bit of a disconnect.

HAYES: Just to be clear, fetal tissue for this purpose, this
important medical purpose, does come from abortions?

GUNTER: Well, I would think, for this purpose, that he worked on, it
would have, because if you want to look at normal tissue, you can`t look at
a miscarriage, because that`s not normal, right? So you have to look at
normal. So, and that`s what his paper did.

I`m not saying he was wrong to do it at all. And it sounds like they
important information about colloid cysts, so that`s a good thing.

But I think the disconnect is that, how can it be okay to get it from
a tissue bank but how is it then getting there?

HAYES: Right. Dr. Jen Gunter, thank you very much.

Coming up, we`ll take you back to the Wing Ding Dinner in Iowa, where
Bernie Sanders is speaking now. Stay tuned for that.


HAYES: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders now addressing the crowd at the
Wing Ding dinner in Iowa. Let`s take a listen.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: And the average contribution is
$31.20. The media often asks me why it is that we seem to be generating so
much enthusiasm and why we have so much energy on this campaign.

And my answer is that the American people are sick and tired with
establishment politics, with establishment economics, and with the
establishment media. They fully understand, and this runs across the
political spectrum, that corporate greed is destroying our economy, that
almost all of the new income and wealth being generated is going to the top
1 percent.

They understand that American politics is now dominated by super PACs
and big money interests. And they understand that the mainstream media is
prepared to discuss everything, except the most important issues facing the
American people.

And now let me tell you something that no other candidate for
president will
tell you, and that is no matter who is elected to be president, that person
will not be able to address the enormous problems facing the working
families of our country. They will not be able to succeed, because the
power of corporate America, the power of Wall Street, the power of campaign
donors is so great that no president alone can stand up to them. That is
the truth people may be uncomfortable about hearing it, but that is the

And that is why what this campaign is about is saying loudly and
clearly, it is not just about electing Bernie Sanders for president, it is
about creating a grassroots political movement in this country.

HAYES: Bernie Sanders touching on some of the same themes we`ve heard
from Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton tonight. You can sense already in
this early stage of this campaign, as candidates are trying out their
messages, there is genuine widespread transpartisan anger at the role big
money is playing in this election. You`re hearing it and will hear it a
lot more.

All right, coming up, the movie that took over a decade to make is out
this weekend. It comes at probably the most culturally relevant time.
We`ll preview "Straight Outta Compton Next."


HAYES: The modern era of the presidency marched onward today as
President Barack Obama released his summer music play list on Spotify.

President Obama`s on Martha`s Vineyard about midway through a the two-
week vacation and his 40-song play list includes some oldies, otherwise
known as standards, such as "The Best is Yet to Come," by Frank Sinatra.
There is a seemingly deliberate wide range of choices, including "Ain`t too
Proud to Beg" by The Temptations, "Tombstone Blues" by Bob Dylan, and
"Until Beck: Sandra Wilson as well as some Van Morrison, Cold Play and
Justin Timberlake.

Now this comes hot on the heels of the release of the president`s
summer reading list of six books, that includes "The Lowland," a book the
president bought back in 2013, according to the "Washington Post," with no
explanation for the administration as to why it`s on this year`s list. Has
he not read it yet?

But also on this year`s list, Ta-Naheisi Coates` remarkable landmark
"Between the World and Me."

Not on the list, perhaps surprisingly Donald Trump`s classic, "The Art
of the Deal," one of the great books.


up, please. OK, one of the great books. That`s my second favorite book of
all time.

Do you know what my first is? The Bible. Nothing beats the bible.
Nothing beats the bible. Not even "The Art of the Deal." Not even close.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got something for this

UNIDENTIFIED ALE: What`s it looking like, Dre? It`s hard?



Let`s go start some (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That`s what we need. Hell

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police coming straight
from the underground. That young (EXPLETIVE DELETED) got it bad `cause I`m

And not the other colors no police state. They have the authority to
kill a minority.


HAYES: The NWA biopic "Straight Outta Compton" open in theaters
nationwide today. The movie, which took more than 10 years to make,
arrives at an incredible cultural moment when the very political Black
Lives Matter movement is forcing a national conversation about police
killings and racial justice.

The movie also takes us back to a time when another version of this
conversation was being had by NWA. When F the Police was raising questions
about how local law enforcement agencies did their work in communities of
color. And all of this was taking place before hip hop dominated pop
mainstream culture, before Dr. Dre and Ice Cube were household names.

And now both men are very rich and very famous.

While Cube is making movies with Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill, Dr.
Dre has joined Apple as part of a $3 billion deal to acquire his company,
Beats Electronics.

Ice Cube and Dr. Dre are about as mainstream as it gets now. So much
so that a Hollywood studio decided to make a movie about their group called
N-words with Attitudes. We`ll talk about the movie and why -- it chose to
shy away from, next.



BOB DOLE, FRM. U.S. SENATOR: Movies, television, and advertising
regularly push the limits of decency and they bombard our children with
destructive messages of casual violence and even more casual sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Senator Dole took on Time Warner, he went
after a company that`s also a big producer of what is called gangsta rap,
that`s the explicitly profane and violent music of black and white artists.

It`s very controversial.


HAYES: 20 years ago when gangsta rap was a huge culture wedge issue
dominating our politics and national conversation, today a movie about
some of the
founders of that genre out in movies. And joining me now to discuss it,
Bailey, film editor at Flavorwire and author of the forthcoming book
Pryor: American Id." And Kierna Mayo, editor-in-chief at Ebony magazine
whose cover this month reads America Loves Black Culture. Isn`t that the

Kierna, this movie now in 2015, why now and did they luck out with the

KIERNA MAYO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF EBONY: They lucked out with the timing.
However, in black America, this was always timely. It was timely in 1991
when NWA
was being covered by "The Source" magazine which was where I was employed
as a 21-year-old and it is timely today.

Unfortunately, because people are being killed...

HAYES: You mean, you mean police -- police violence.

MAYO: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

HAYES: But there is a national moment right now. I mean, it`s
remarkable to watch this national moment, and then remember that the big
song that put them on notice was F the Police, Ice T -- Cop Killer around
the same time. That was like
every -- everything was about that. That was dominating American politics
20 years ago.

MAYO: It was dominating American politics, entirely.

But interestingly for you to say that it`s topical now. I guess I
just reject that inherently, because it`s always topical in black America,
it`s just so happens that there are cameras now and now you guys can be in
on the conversation.

HAYES: OK, but there`s also the fact that, I don`t think you could
have made
this movie, I don`t think Hollywood would have made this movie 20 years ago
or even 10 years ago.

Part of that is about the evolution of the age cohort. The fact that
this music is now kind of dad music and mom music, right? People in their
30s are like, I remember when I was listening to F the Police. And also
the fact that these people, Cube and Dre particularly, these are
multimillion dollar American icons.

JASON BAILEY, FLAVORWIRE: Sure. You know, Dre is an entrepreneur
now, one of -- you know, he`s one of the richest men in the music industry.

Cube is producing, you know, family comedies. And so it`s interesting
to sort of see that juxtaposition of, you know, the angry, anti-
authoritarian young men in the film with the, you know, businessmen who, by
the way, produced this film and were very involved in its messaging and...

MAYO: And the final narrative.

HAYES: And Dre, Dre obviously has his new album out, that`s sort of
tied to the release of it. There has been controversy on a variety of
fronts about the
film, including one thing left out of the film, which is this sort of
awful, horrific incident involving a female journalist.

MAYO: Right.

Dee Barnes, she was a VJ. Remember VJs? She was a really lovely
person who everyone really was interested in and thought was an important
person. She actually was beat down by Dre and it was violent and it was a
huge conversation in hip hop. And we all talked about it.

HAYES: Because she had Cube on, Cube in an interview, Cube said some
things that they did not take well to, the remaining members in the band.
They found her at a party, right?

MAYO: right. This was at, you know, my memory, but, yes, it was at a
party. Long story short, there was an altercation, it was violent, she was
harmed, it was at the hands of Dre.

HAYES: And that was not in the film?

MAYO: And that is absolutely not in the film, and it was clearly a
creative choice that was made by the producers and it was unfortunate,
because it also was a part of their narrative arc that actually could have
made the film better.

HAYES: Right. And that`s part of the difficulty, one of the
interesting trade-offs in making this film is like being authentic about
this, but this being a big film that you want to get millions of people
across every flock of life in America to come to see.

How did they pull it off in terms of the film itself?

BAILEY: In terms of -- I mean, I think the film works. I think, you
know, there are...

HAYES: It does work.

MAYO: It does work, yes.

HAYES: There are troubling exclusions. There are conversations that
we had about the music that now we have about the movie, in terms of the
degree to which it cheers misogyny. There are elements that are
problematic, but overall, it really beautifully captures sort of that
cultural moment that they came from.

HAYES: So, it pulls it off. It gets you back in there.

BAILEY: Absolutely.

Yeah, in a really indelible way like you understand where they were
coming from and you also understand what they created out of that moment.

MAYO: And that`s my point, right, I think it`s really unfortunate
that that was an omission , because not only could that have brought light
to what actually
happened, but it was part of the trajectory and it was rich.

HAYES: I`ve got to say, when I first saw this was dropping, I was
really excited to see this movie.

MAYO: You have to see it.

HAYES: Priority of it.

Jason Bailey and Kierna Mayo, thank you both. I appreciate it.

That is All In for this evening.


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