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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Sunday, August 16th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Sunday show

Show: UP with STEVE KORNACKI
Date: August 16, 2015
Guest: Anthony Roman, Mike Pesca, Robert George, L. Joy Williams, Carol
Rosenberg, Austin Barbour, Sylvia Longmire, James Barnett, Stephen Moore


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: The Donald has landed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Good morning. Thanks for getting up with us this morning. I`m
Michael Eric Dyson. Steve Kornacki has the morning off.

It`s been a wild and crazy weekend in the world of politics, but we want to
start with some breaking news. Let`s go to Dara Brown with the latest on
that.

DARA BROWN, MSNBC NEWS ANCHOR: Thanks, Michael.

An Indonesian airplane carrying 54 people is still missing at this hour.
Aircraft controllers lost contact with the regional carrier aircraft just
nine minutes before it was scheduled to land in Indonesia`s mountainous
eastern province of Papua. The Trigana Air flight was making a short
domestic hop in the remote region. The officials have called off the
search for the evening. And for more, I`m being joined now on the phone by
former Commercial Airline Pilot Anthony Roman.

Anthony, we now have our first photo of the type of aircraft, Trigana Air,
was flying on this route. What`s your experience with this kind of what
appears to be, a propeller aircraft?

ANTHONY ROMAN, FORMER COMMERCIAL AIRLINE PILOT: Well, the ATR 42 is a
French and Italian built twin-turboprop. Simply what that means, Dara, is
that it does have propellers, but those are jet engines, modern jet
engines, and this aircraft has a long, very fave (ph) history of flying
with very few ongoing mechanical problems.

Was originally produced in 1984, and they`re still built today. This
particular sub-model seats approximately 42 to 50 people. It has suffered
approximately 23 hull-lose accidents since 1984. And very interestingly
enough, one in the general vicinity in which the current aircraft had been
lost. During August of 2014, the aircraft was lost in Papua, New Guinea
and had crashed into the mountains with all crew and passengers lost.

But I have to caution everyone. This is a very safe aircraft made for
short-haul flight.

The flight from Jayapura to Oksibil traverses a mountain range with
mountains up to 10,000 feet in height. It was about a 54-, 55-minute
flight, and we understand that there were approximately 54 people on board.
We`ve also learned that the search for the aircraft, after they lost
contact with it, has been suspended as a result of local bad weather,
thunderstorms, heavy rain and night falling.

We also understand that, based on our review of the satellite photographs,
that the terrain in which the aircraft lost contact is extremely remote,
mountainous with very steep slopes and very high mountain peaks. It`s
going to be a very difficult search for this airplane because it`s very
dense jungle there.

BROWN: Commercial airline pilot, Anthony Roman, many thanks to you. And
stay right here on MSNBC as we keep following this breaking news story.

For now, let`s return to "Up" with Steve Kornacki and Michael Eric Dyson.
Michael?

DYSON: Thanks, Dara. We turn now to politics and what has been a wild and
crazy weekend at the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines.

The spectacle of Donald Trump`s arrival into the race for president,
looking very much like his arrival to the fair yesterday, swooping in from
the air to offer local kids a ride on his helicopter. Don`t you wish you
were there? Not even Hillary Clinton eating a pork chop on a stick could
top that.

Both of the candidates bypassed convention, skipping the chance to speak at
the state fair so-called Soapbox. Instead, they held press conferences.
Hillary Clinton had this to say about her ongoing e-mail investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the usual
partisanization, which I may have just made up a word, of anything that
goes on, and I`ve been at this for a really longtime. And I think people
in Iowa, just like people across the country, are going to want to vote for
somebody that they believe will deliver results for them, and I think I`ve
got a very strong case to make on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Meanwhile, Donald Trump answered questions about just how much he`s
willing to spend to finance his own campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had yesterday a lobbyist call
me up. He`s a friend of mine, good guy, smart as hell, he`s -- for his
client. I don`t blame him. He said, "Donald, I want to put $5 million
into your campaign." I said, "I don`t need it. I don`t want it. Because
when you come back to me in two years and you want help for a company that
you`re representing or a country that you`re representing, I`m going to do
the right thing for the people of the United States and I don`t want to
have to insult you."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: MSNBC Political Correspondent Kasie Hunt joins us live from Des
Moines this morning. Kasie, I know you caught up with Trump amongst the
mobs yesterday. I don`t know if you got a helicopter ride or not. But
what did you talked about?

KASIE HUNT, MSNBC Political Correspondent: No helicopter ride for me,
Michael, unfortunately. They were mostly for the kids that Donald, that
heard that -- excuses me, Mr. Trump gather here at the fair. But this was
unlike anything we`ve ever seen at the Iowa state fair and this a place
where presidential candidates have been coming for years and decades,
really to flip pork chops and do a lot of the traditional activities.

Donald Trump dispensed with everything traditional and, you know, it
reflects the fact -- the people were so excited to see him. It reflects
the political mood. And that`s what I asked him about when I caught up
with him as he was driving his golf cart through the fair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Why did you see (inaudible) people are tired of politics and
they`re tried of incompetence so that`s (inaudible)...

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNT: So there you have it. That`s his overall message. He still not
getting too specific although he is releasing elements of his immigration
plan this morning on meet the president interview with Chuck Todd. He does
say that every -- all of the illegal immigrants who are currently, excuse
me, undocumented immigrants were currently in the United States should be
deported immediately. So were starting to get some idea on that front.

But I think, Michael, the question here has been whether or not he can
translate all of this celebrity excitement and its impossible to overstate
how excited people were to see him as he went through this fair
(inaudible). As people start to figure out he was here, the mob grew, and
grew, and grew to the point where he has had to had to divert him from a
plant stop (ph) at the butter cow because there were too many people who
are pact in, waiting to see him there.

They missed the turn off to go to the pork producer`s tent when he was
supposed to be. And then the crowd of people was so thick that they
couldn`t turn him back around. But the question is whether or not he can
actually convert any of that excitement into actual votes at the caucuses.
Its one thing to have people be excited, take a selfie with you at the
fair. It`s entirely another to get them to show up in the dead of winter,
sit in their school, gymnasium and caucus for you.

So I actually caught up with his chief strategist here in Iowa, Chuck
Laudner. He`s the man who helped Rick Santorum win the caucuses, not
necessary on caucus night, but eventually win the caucuses in 2012. Here
is what he had to say about what he`s hearing from Trump supporters on the
ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK LAUDNER, TRUMP`S CHIEF STRATEGIST: The goal of the Republican Party
is to expand the base, add polling, drill this things, stop being
outnumbered. A lot of his campaign doing, and for some reason, their
choking on, they can`t stand it. This is exactly what the Republican Party
needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So this idea that Trump is actually reaching out to new caucus
goers. Laudner says that when people come out to this Trump bus that
they`ve been driving around in tows. A lot of them tell him, what`s a
caucus? How do I, you know, how do I sign up for this, how do I vote? And
again, the question is going to be whether they can actually get those new
people engaged in the process and ultimately get them to vote or whether,
you know, this Trump bubble bursts before we get to February next year
Michael.

DYSON: All right, Kasie. So much thanks for that great report but please
stick around.

Before we talk to Moore (ph), here`s an excerpt of Donald Trump`s interview
with Chuck Todd that you just talked about. The topic, "Immigration", take
a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: You`ll resend that one too?

TRUMP: One good thing that.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: We have to. We have to make a whole new set of standards and when
people come in to have some in to have to some in.

CHUCK TIDE: You`re going to split up families.

TRUMP: Chuck.

TODD: You`re going to deport.

TRUMP: Chuck. No, no, we`re going to keep the families together. We have
to keep the families together...

CHUCK TIDE: But you`re going to keep (inaudible)...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: That exclusive interview (inaudible), airs this morning on "Meet
the Press". And the full conversation will be online at
meetthepressnbc.com.

I want to bring in our panel this morning and get their opinions. Robert
George of the New York Post, Mike Pesca, Sports Commentator for NPR and
host of the Slate podcast "The Gist", L. Joy Williams, Political Strategist
and President of the Brooklyn Chapter of the NAACP. And, of course, we
have Perry Bacon here, Senior Reporter from NBC.

What do you all make of the Donald Trump comment on "Meet the Press". I
mean the surrounding is pretty, you know, not normal for Chuck Todd to be
up in a, looks like a private helicopter there and chatting with the
Donald. What do you make of what he says about immigration in light of the
extraordinary comments about Mexicans and the kind of to leave the -- sort
of (inaudible) phobia that has been apparent in his rhetoric.

L. JOY WILLIAMS, POLITICAL STRATEGIST AND PRESIDENT OF THE BROOKLYN CHAPTER
OF THE NAACP: Well, he is at least consistent in continuing to demonize
and categorize people who are here undocumented as, you know, as evil or
those people or someone separate from who we are. And that`s -- he`s
obviously tapping into a number of people who believed that in this country
and believe that they are the source of everything that`s wrong in this
country, whether it would be the economy or jobs.

So he`s definitely tapping into that. And we see that with his polls and
his people are talking about and speaking for the common man or tell me
that like, it is, people identify with that. But I think it`s overall
dangerous because, you know, we continue to have this conversation about
immigration. It is a complex thing and he`s making it seem so simple...

DYSON: All right.

WILLIAMS: ... if how we have to address them.

DYSON: But that what Trump does...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

DYSON: He`s been credited with authenticity. I don`t think he has that, I
think he`s unambiguous. Even when he self-contradictories unambiguous, and
that statement that we saw in the Iowa state fair. By the way, I think,
the headline is now is a red-hot.

But I think the headline there -- well, I think the important thing is when
he said, I won`t take a millionaire`s money. And that resonates because
our political system is so supremely vulnerable to that sort of critic
people of that. And people in the Republican Party love hearing what he`s
saying about Mexico even if a wall -- a supposed wall would cost billions
of dollars. It doesn`t really matter, it`s unambiguous, they like what he
hear and as far as translating to Iowa.

I mean, that`s exactly the message that they want to hear. He`s giving
them exactly what they want to hear, its 40 staff person state. I don`t
know if it`s going to continue, and go on, and grow. But it might be a
bubble, but I think it`s a bigger bubble or as more likely to get support
in any of his rivals at least in places like Iowa.

Robert George, is it the nightmare of the Republican Party that their
leading figure is Donald Trump with all the baggage, no fund intended on
this helicopter, brings along to the party. I mean, this kind of
xenophobia, this kind of anti-immigrant at least in terms of undocumented
people who are here in United States of America. But it seems to run
against every intent (ph) of the Republican Party to broaden its tent and
bring more people in. Does Donald Trump do that?

ROBERT GEORGE, NEW YORK POST: It`s a big problem. The party definitely
has a major problem in dealing with that. As L. Joy said though, there`s a
bizarre kind of a consistency with Trump.

A number of Republicans have been trying to sort of kind of have it both
ways on immigration because on the one hand they say, we need a boarder.
They also recognize you can`t deport, you know, 11 million people. Trump
basically, he`s saying, you can`t do that or -- But I don`t think it`s
going to -- ultimately, I don`t think it`s going to work but the longer he
stays in the raise that message is going to spreads and it becomes more
problematic for whomever is going to be the eventual nominee, seeming it`s
not going be Donald Trump to deal with going forward.

DYSON: Well, let`s speak of where, Robert, into there. Assuming it`s not
going to be Donald Trump. That might have been the book on him, say, two
months ago. That might have been the book on him a month ago but there`s
pre-Megyn Kelly and there`s post --Megyn Kelly.

And now that Donald Trump by his own reckoning, he`s brought 22 million new
viewers to a debate. There`s no argument with the numbers there. Is
Donald Trump here to stay, Perry Bacon? Does he appear to be a flesh on
the pan which that seems to be quickly fading? It seems that he`s a man
who`s here to stay in the Republican Party has to deal with him?

PERRY BACON, NBC`S SENIOR REPORTER: Exactly. He already has one thing
candidate often at the lead of the race because they don`t have enough
money, Prick Perry is (inaudible) presumably.

But Donald Trump has the money. We now know we have support. I think he`s
going to be hear to the caucuses for sure and maybe (inaudible) beyond that
he is now -- he could be winning. I never thought but I have to say this
but Donald Trump might win the Iowa caucuses, that seems crazy to think.

I still think, "Oh, the Republic Party, a lot of -- we don`t think about
them but there are plenty of modern (ph) Republicans in places like New
Hampshire and places like Florida.

I still think if (inaudible) bit, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker more
likely to win than Donald Trump. But Donald Trump is going to be here and
he`s already making an impact in the sense that you can tell the kids as a
lot of them were talking about how they will be more liberal on immigration
before. But now even Jeb Bush is moving in the right and talking about
sanctuary cities a lot.

I think Donald Trump is already moving the debate, to the right that in a
way...

GEORGE: Historically though, the winner of the Iowa causes does not does
go on to win the Republican nomination...

DYSON: They`re certainly praying for that (inaudible). Look, he`s pulling
them to the right in terms of immigration policy but one "sharp card" (ph)
so to speak that he have is that, "Look I`ve got my own money. And when
you comeback to, you know, Mike was making the point earlier that kind of
points sticks out because he`s unbossed (ph) to borrow the language of
(inaudible) too.

WILLIAMS: Right. So he`s not necessarily going to take money from lots of
millionaires. He`s just taking one -- he`s taking money for fun.

DYSON: It`s a selfie.

WILLIAMS: And, you know, he continually embodied this notion that we talk
about all the time where you can have white middle class and working class
voting against their own interest. Trump embodies that, right? So here`s
this wealthy guy who have all of the privilege and it`s hacking very simply
about hot house (ph), the jobs and the economy, and people are buying into
that. He`s a great salesman. He could probably saw what are the fish,
right? And so he`s...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he would argue once.

WILLIAMS: He`s -- taking on what people want to hear.

(CROSSTALK)

DYSON: Let me get making -- for their interest, because of working job --
in jobs part. Well, get Kasie Hunt in.

Kasie given the kind of (inaudible) conversation we`ve had here which pales
in comparison on what`s going on out there in Iowa, what is the mood of the
people there on the ground? Are they excited about a celebrity or did they
really think that Donald Trump brings them a message that can really redeem
or at least further the interest of the Republican Party?

HUNT: I mean, it`s a mixed of both, Michael. I mean, the crowd yesterday,
there were plenty of people in there who just wanted to see Donald Trump.
I mean he`s a famous billionaire who`s been on the small screen for his
private life and for shows like the "Apprentice" for years.

And so there are plenty of people who are just excited about that. But
there were also plenty of people who we talk to who feel as though his
message is refreshing. And part of it is, the ideas that he`s talking
about whether, you know, undocumented immigrants or some of the other
things you guys were talking about, but in some ways, it simply the way his
delivering it, in his simple straightforward not messing around way.

It`s such a contrast with how many of this other candidates are use to
talking about issues and gain careful in their, you know, political
posturing or talking, you know, around things getting into the specific.
People are just tired of it and when I hear from people who say that they
would consider voting for Trump it`s, you know what he is not politically
correct.

He says what he believes and I trust that he is saying what he believes and
that`s a pretty fundamental thing, I mean that something that often times
people who ultimately win presidential nominations in the White House
that`s a fundamental characteristic.

Now, whether, you know, Trump can really carry this through all the way
obviously remains to be seen but I think that Perry and others on the panel
are right when they say that, you know, he is at this point going to be
likely a factor in the Iowa caucus and could potentially win it.

I mean, I can`t tell you that other Republican campaign operatives and
aides who I talked to, they`re staring the plan for that contingency and
for somebody like Scott Walker for example it`s potentially a really big
interest situation.

DYSON: All right. My thanks to Kasie Hunt for joining us.

Still ahead, the Obama administration opens an embassy in Cuba this week.
But can they close Guantanamo? And next, another week another record for
the Bernie Sanders campaign, that`s next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to wish a happy
birthday to some institution its called "Social Security" 80 years old.
Well, there`s Donald Trump, what we can we do? You know, I apologize we
left the helicopter at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: That was Bernie Sanders yesterday in Iowa. It`s been another big
week for the Vermont Senator. His week began with the rally in Portland,
Oregon that drew a record crowd of 28,000 people. The next day, Senator
spoke to nearly as many supporters, 27,000, in Los Angeles. And by
Wednesday, he had overtaken Hillary Clinton in a new poll of New Hampshire,
surging ahead of the one time front runner by 7 points in this ones survey.

Tomorrow, the Senator`s campaign will expand its field operation in Iowa
opening several new offices, so what`s filling the rise of Bernie Sanders
and can it last?

So, look, when you think about Bernie Sanders here. We were having
interesting conversation during the break, mentioning Mr. Marquez and
"Straight Outta Compton". I don`t want to say anything else about that.

But when you think about Bernie Sanders, two things occurred to me. First
of all, remember all of the interest about Elizabeth, the Senator? Right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

DYSON: Right. Elizabeth Warren, and all of the Warren interest that was
generated and people think I was just going to take in -- Bernie Sanders is
kind of illiterate with all of that, number one. And number two, there`s
been this argument that they are the opposite sides of the same coin Bernie
Sanders and Donald Trump.

So I want you to speak to that, first of all, L. Joy, do you think that
Bernie Sanders has absorbed the progressive energy of the Democratic Party
and those who were even further to the left and now is the kind of emblem
of a real possibility, does he have a real possibility of winning within
Democratic policies?

WILLIAMS: Well, certainly, when he began the campaign it was some --
people were being talking about him to just as the French candidate that
was going to help push the Clinton campaign further to the left. And I
think he`s definitely doing that, and has absorb as he mentions Senator
Warren the excitement of drafting Senator Warren into the race and people
wanted to see an alternative.

You know, and there`s a lack of conversations happening, there`s what
happens within the party to create this candidate that is representative of
all who were in the party -- those who maybe progressive, those who are
sort of right leaning on the left, and finding a candidate who can ride
that middle ground and represent all of the interest.

But at the same time, there`s also what`s going on in the republican Party,
and in both as the conversations we`re having both Trump embodies, and
Bernie Sanders embody, is this anti-Washington, the sort of anti -- against
career politicians, something that I`m always amaze that is the only
profession where we don`t want people to be career, really good at...

DYSON: No exact in experience needed.

WILLIAMS: No experience needed to represent I admitted...

(CROSSTALK)

DYSON: Let me ask you this question tag onto it. So is Bernie Sanders
pulling the country along with Hillary Clinton to the left, is he forcing
Hillary Clinton to come out with her view points that she`s establish
especially in regard to race, number one. But also in terms of college
debt and the like, is she pulling -- is he pulling her to left and his
pulling the country along with him to the left?

BACON: I don`t think he actually doing it yet. I think if you look at
Hillary Clinton`s plan, they`ve been really similar President Obama`s, she`
definitely trying to win the Obama coalition. But, you know, Bernie
Sanders talking about limiting the size of banks. He`s talking about
increase of security benefits. He talking about things Hillary Clinton`s
lay not near yet, I don`t think -- I don`t remember when Obama...

DYSON: The College plans that they put 24th...

BACON: ... the college plan similar but I think she`s...

DYSON: And the kind of racial talk. I mean, Obama....

BACON: I think she would say that anyway...

DYSON: ... said that`s in the fourth quarter, right I mean...

BACON: But...

DYSON: ... Bernie Sanders is Obama in the -- in the first quarter what
about he`s doing in the fourth quarter?

BACON: I think Hillary is trying to follow Obama. But, you know, Hillary
is pretty close to Obamaholic (ph), Bernie...

DYSON: OK.

BACON: ... Sanders (inaudible) minimum wage, Hillary $12, I think...

DYSON: Yeah.

BACON: ... (inaudible) she`s not -- and the Trump and Sanders, I don`t see
there`s many same thing. Trump is a celebrity, kind of running a reality
show campaign but essentially his tamping into something that he`s really
Bernie Sanders has been in Congress a longtime. He`s one -- he`s one of
those had the same idea. Bernie Sanders (inaudible) rest of the thought
that same things for 30 years and now we`re begin the rest is really...

DYSON: Look.

BACON: ... maybe his right about some of it.

WILLIAMS: But...

DYSON: OK. Let me turn to Mike and then I`ll give you. So, his argument
here, appearing (ph) that, look, Bernie Sanders has a reality star
campaign, what that seems to be, what the voter, I mean Trump I`m sorry...

MIKE PESCA, THE GIST HOST: Yeah.

DYSON: ... what the voters really want and it seems that Donald Trump is
taking the challenge to move beyond it. He`s talking about he`s going to
release some position papers on immigration. He`s also thinking about
who`s going to be in his cabinet and who`s going to be his vice president.
Isn`t he kind of wrapping up to, to kind of real demands on the ground
politics?

PESCA: Trump, I think his higher staff. I mean, who`s going to be on his
cabinet the vendor pumps (ph).

I would say that Bernie Sanders...

GEORGE: The Kadashians are?

PESCA: Yeah. Bernie Sanders is not pulling Hillary to the left but his
making it more involve, she`s politic in more and that`s good. I think
when, couple things this one Boston globe poll, I don`t doubt it it`s the
only poll that ever showed his winning anywhere, nationally. She is
favorite 31 points, 40 points in NBC polls and Wall Street Journal polls.

I don`t think voters, Bernie Sanders is like Elizabeth Warren in that, they
hear of using spine into that. I mean, he`s just liberal alternative. Do
voters know about his view? Do voters know his pretty pro-gun? Wouldn`t
have nearly get -- they won`t hurt him in New Hampshire but it probably
will hurt him if it comes to that nationally...

DYSON: Within the general campaign, it certainly will appeal to those
across the isle.

PESCA: I think that -- I think that the other big difference between
Sanders and Trump is that, Trump benefits from a field of 10, 12 people...

WILLIAMS: That`s right.

DYSON: Right.

PESCA: ...right? He has his core and Sanders benefits from the either or,
there`s going to be the one liberal candidate that Sanders. I see Trump is
much more likely to win than Sanders.

DYSON: All right. I`m going to play some of the Sanders, before we go to
break, I want to play some of him speech from yesterday and then we`ll pick
up on the other side of the break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: And I want to thank the people of Iowa for their courage in
voting for Obama in 2008. And what you showed is that a state which is
mostly white could go beyond the color of a candidate`s skin and vote for
somebody based on their character and their ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Fascinating comments by Bernie Sanders.

WILLIAMS: Interesting.

DYSON: Still ahead as we continue, has Bernie Sanders open the door for
Vice President Joe Biden to enter the 2016 race? That`s still ahead, but
first, an update on the search for that missing Indonesian Airliner. Stay
with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: I`m Dara Brown, we`ll be back with more of "Up with Steve Kornacki"
in just a moment.

But first, I want to update you with the latest on this morning`s breaking
news, a missing Indonesian Airliner that lost contact with the ground
control this morning.

Rescuers in Indonesia calling off the search at this hour due to night
fall. The plane was minute for landing in poor weather in a remote
mountainous region of the country. The flight was carrying 54 people.
More details on this story as it develop.

We`ve also learn this morning at civil rights activist Julian Bond has died
after breath illness. Bond wad the long time chairman of the NAACP
organizing the rallies and protest against segregation at public
institutions that led to the nation`s land mark civil rights laws. Bonds
served the majority to say legislature and once a professor at American
University and the University of Virginia. Julian Bond was 75 years old.

More news and politic history to head on "Up with Steve Kornacki", stay
with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: On Friday morning, this was the scene at Havana, Cuba, where the
U.S. Embassy reopen after decades of broken relations. It was a historic
moment for the Obama administration foreign policy team. But 500 miles
away on the Eastern coast of Cuba, 116 detainees sit in the Guantanamo Bay
detention center.

President Obama vow to close Guantanamo on his first week in office that it
remains a top priority. The White House says the administration is in the
final stages of drafting a plan to close Guantanamo. But once again
Obama`s plans are meeting resistance.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter and the Pentagon have so far refused to let go
any of the 52 detainees clear for release. And while the administration is
looking for some place on U.S. soil to move the detainees, doing that we
will require congressional approval, something that`s not likely to happen.

Joining me now is Carol Rosenberg of the Miami Herald.

So, Carol, thanks for joining us here this morning. You`ve got a new piece
out that detail some other places, some (inaudible) spaces for these
detainees to be taken. What are some of the places that are being talked
about?

CAROL ROSENBURG, MIAMI HERALD STAFF: So since 2010, closing Guantanamo has
meant moving it. So Pentagon has been out scouting, they`ve looked already
at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas. This week, they`re going to Charleston in
South Carolina.

And so far, they`re not going to the two new brigs that have been built
since President Obama`s vow close the detention center which as you pointed
out; the problem with this is that, they need Congress to change the law to
allow them to move at least some of these detainees to the United States.

So while the Pentagon is out shopping for locations the question is,
politically, what is the White House going to give Congress to lift the
embargo that prevents the transfer, Michael?

DYSON: Well, look, you know, people will get blinkered here by all of the
facts. We know, you know, people know, the American public knows that,
it`s a detentions center, that it has something to do with Afghanistan and
750 prisoners at the -- Muslim from Muslin countries but some from French,
and British, and other places.

So why is it so difficult? Can you explain this in layman`s kind of
perspective? Why is it so difficult for the president to keep his promise
and close Guantanamo?

ROSENBURG: I think the answer is because congress loves Guantanamo. They
love the messaging of the prison. They`re not interested in giving the
president, this victory by allowing him to close it, make good on the
promise. We`re talking about at this point a 116 people there with the
staff of over 2,000 guards and contractors working at that detention
center.

And there`s seems to be no will or certainly no one in Congress advocating
for closure in effect allowing them to move them to a similar Guantanamo
situation.

You know, we call it Guantanamo North. They want to release 52 of these
men but we`re talking about what they like the White House to call the
irreducible minimum, maybe 60 some of detainees who they would move to the
states.

Now, you should know the civil liberties, people thinks that`s not closing
it. They are, he was not closing it, and they want everybody tried or
freed. They think that this detention regime that the president and the
president before him has setup is not consistent with American due process.

DYSON: So what`s the significance of the U.S. blocking the release of the
hunger-striking detainee there?

ROSENBURG: Tariq Ba Odah, he`s a Yemeni who grew up in Saudi and his been
on the hunger strike. His lawyer says since 2007, he set 56 percent of
this ideal body weight 74.5 pounds. According to his lawyer, five foot,
three five foot four.

The Justice Department, the Defense Department, they -- the man is cleared
for release that`s the irony of this whole things. He`s already been --
it`s been decided by these boards, these panels that he can go if there`s a
safe place to send them. He`s from Yemen. And the Bush administration and
now the Obama administration won`t send detainees to Yemen.

So he`s been on a hunger strike. They are shopping for a country to take
him, just like these other 51 men who were cleared. They don`t want to
acknowledge or to allow a court order to free him because they think that
will encourage more detainees to go hunger strike. The furies that the
detainees will gain some sort of power of Tariq Ba Odah lives and each one
of them tried to starve himself into freedom. I think that`s the fear.

The problem with this is, again, the man has already been cleared and since
at least 2010 that the Obama Administration decided, they don`t need them
at Guantanamo. They don`t want him at Guantanamo. They just need a place
to send him, a county to take him that will take responsibility for him.
The other thing is he`s sound extremely sickly. So, even if -- let`s say
Saudi Arabia where his family lives decides that they`re willing to take
him to their rehabilitation program, it`s not clear at all to me to other
people who looked at this case, if he`s well enough to travel. He`s a sick
man, Michael.

DYSON: All right, thank you so much. My thanks to Carol Rosenburg for
joining us this morning.

Still ahead, the latest on Democrats maybe having some reservations about a
Hillary Clinton nomination. And next, would Rick Perry be the first
candidates out of the race for president? One of his most prominent
supporter`s weight in, that`s next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: We`ve now reach the point in the 2016 race for president where its
time to start talking about who`s likely to be the first person that have
to dropout. Things have been going very well for Rick Perry lately.

The former Texas governor couldn`t pay his campaign workers this week.
Super PAC money stepped in, to the rescue, but will it be enough for him to
breakthrough and the crowded 17 candidate field.

Top political strategies and operatives in the early voting states have
(inaudible) Perry as their pick for the first candidate to go. That`s not
a great list to be the top of. That`s 40 percent of Republicans and nearly
half of all Democrats. Austin Barbour is a senior adviser to three super
PACs supporting Perry. He joins us now, live.

So, Austin, tell us what you think is going on here with Rick Perry in
regard to how he was a handicap initially to break into the race isn`t that
Donald Trump has sucked up of all the oxygen in room and that they kind of
Perry flings have been removed from him because Donald Trump has played
that card well before Rick Perry was able to do so.

AUSTIN BARBOUR, SENIOR ADVISER OF SUPER PACS: Well, Michael, thanks for
having me.

As you know, sometimes politics is really difficult to try to handcuff.
Here`s what I know Governor Perry was not successful probably race in the
kind of money that his campaign wanted to but that`s OK like a lot of
families across the country what do you do when things are tie, you go lane
and maine, (ph) you tight your buckle and you down size your staff to do
the kinds of things that you need to do.

The example that I want to point to, you look at 1979 and what the
(inaudible) Governor Reagan have to do. His campaign was broke, of course,
he was just, you know, a former governor at that point in time. They made
top decisions, low style, won New Hampshire about two to one over President
Bush, future President Bush, and things workout OK.

I think (inaudible) we got to be patient. We`ve got a new ad that we just
went out to talking about issues that matter, resonate with voters in Iowa,
New Hampshire and South Carolina.

DYSON: Now, you said that you plan to takeover responsibilities for a
while. First of all, I want to ask you who long this is going to last but
then I want to ask you a tricky question here because I though there was no
coordination between super PACs and campaigns, so how does that paying out
in terms of the restrictions and rules?

BARBOUR: You`re exactly right. We cannot coordinate with the campaign.
We cannot talk to the Governor. We cannot talk to his staff. We have not
and we cannot. Typically what super PACs will do is they`ll run paid
media, though television ads, though digital media ads and we`ve done that.
We`ve done about 4,500 growth rate and points which is a lot of televisions
in the state of Iowa and even some nationally.

Now, what we can do is we can -- the sooner that we go hire on staff in a
state like Iowa, run our own ground game, precinct organization and that`s
what we started a couple of weeks ago.

We noticed that the campaign had not raised as much money as they probably
would have like to. And we had a raise of a fairly decent amount of money
and decided to go move forward. And those type of activities are self-
diversified what we want to do, to support the governor best as we can.
And it`s going really well so far.

DYSON: Well, let me break in right there. So $17 million by the PACs, $1
million by Perry, that`s not good math, that`s fuzzy math. So, how does
that comfort with your desire to want to support him? Do you begin to say,
"Look, he`s not a worthy investment, we`ve got to figure somebody else out
to invest in."

BARBOUR: No, listen, we believe that Rick Perry is the best candidate. He
has rights to be President. You go back and you look at his record. When
he became Governor, Texas was at right about 27 nationally in education,
they`re number two. Number one, for Hispanics and African-Americans, 5.6
million people have moved to Texas. They`re going there for a reason
because of their hot paying jobs.

And so, listen, voters will have five more months in the state of Iowa to
continue to hear him gets stump speeches, continue to see him perform and
debates in forums. So we`re confident they`re going to like his record,
they like him. You go look at external or internal polls in Iowa or
nationally, and his favorables are very high.

It`s, you know, it`s -- politics is sometimes really hard to figure out and
we`re going to be very patient and support him as best as we can to the
opportunity and freedom super PAC.

DYSON: Stand by your man, my thanks to Austin Barbour for joining us this
morning.

BARBOUR: Thank you.

DYSON: Much more to come as we continue including how realistic are Donald
Trump`s plans to build a wall along much of the U.S. border with Mexico.
But first, where did that Al Gore running in 2016 rumor actually come from?
That`s next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: The biggest names in the race for the Democratic nomination right
now are Bernie, or Lincoln, or Martin, the names actually being talked
about are Joe and Al not Sharpton.

Vice President Joe Biden is reportedly taking a run for president very
seriously. And there are also reports that people close to former Vice
Presidential candidate and Vice President Al Gore are hopingly will do the
same.

Right now, Hillary Clinton leads the pack, but the lingering investigation
over the e-mail service she used as Secretary of State has made everyone
nervous. Even her campaign staff has said to be nervous. Nervous about
whether the scandal will stand in the way of her winning the White House.

NBC`s Perry Bacon has been writing about the will they or won`t day
speculation and he joins us now here again on set.

So, Perry, you`re the man, you`re the guy, you`re the Stephen Curry
throwing the three pointers up in the fourth quarter.

BACON: Wow.

DYSON: So you`re our MVP. Now, you`re the real MVP, a little Kevin Durant
there as well. Give us a sense of why all of this makes sense to talk
about now in light of the troubles and trials that Hillary Clinton is
having vis-a-vis the server that the Joe Biden possibility looms larger.

BACON: So the Biden and Gore stories are really about the fact the Hillary
Clinton has this e-mail problem that continue to be investigated and so on.
And the idea of being -- some Democrats and Hillary Clinton is very popular
right now, but some people in the party are worried if Hillary maybe is not
going to be viable generalist candidate who else can we have.

And their view is Bernie Sanders, be the socialist and cannot win the
general election, we need somebody who a lot of Americans already know
who`s kind of broadly supported, enter Joe Biden, enter Al Gore. My guess
is next week you`ll hear about John Kerry.

Same idea being like somebody who`s viable and well-known because at this
point, like Gillibrand or Cory Booker, or someone like that, those who
couldn`t run earlier but it`s too late for them to get into the race now.

Like if Hillary had some real, there`s some real -- she couldn`t win the
general election, Joe Biden has been voted for by a lot of people already
twice nationally. He`s the kind of person to get in and do pretty well in
a general election and he`s not as liberal as Bernie Sanders is.

DYSON: Well, let me ask you, is Biden going to suck more oxygen, air, and
possibility, and money as well and voter-based from Hillary Clinton or is
he going to suck it more from Bernie Sanders?

BACON: I would suggest he would suck more from Hillary Clinton. Bernie
Sanders people are the Warren people. Those people want a very progressive
person. Biden`s record is pretty much, he`s an established Democrat, he`s
pretty much where Hillary Clinton is, there`s nothing wrong with that, but
that`s where -- you look at the polling what it shows so far is the white
liberals really like Bernie Sanders, minorities and people like that.
Minorities, more Democrats, more conservative Democrats, they like Hillary.
So Biden will be competing with her.

We know that Biden running against Hillary once before in 2008 and he lost
by a very, very large amount to Hillary, so if you think about that.

DYSON: Well, how do you raise doubts about Hillary? I mean -- is this
something in the -- it seemed initially to be something in the weeds.
Something about a server and whether or not they were high -- you know,
whether they were top secret on that. But now, it becomes more real and
more concrete and she`s having a more difficult to explain. How do we.

GEORGE: When the FBI.

DYSON: Exactly.

GEORGE: When the FBI is investigating, it suddenly gets real and that`s
why you`re seeing nervousness, I might say, bordering on panic among
certain Democratic elites. Because once the FBI is in there, you don`t
know where it`s going. You don`t know whether it`s going towards an
indictment of her or some of her staff and so forth. And once that happens
as we saw it going back to the 90s with President Clinton, it can become
literally a federal -- it is literally a federal case and it could -- And
if you`ve got the person that the party, the establishment has put almost
all their -- all the eggs in that one Hillary basket, it`s not surprising
that they`re starting to look around for people like Biden and Gore.

DYSON: But let me ask you this. So could it backfire though? Because if
Hillary Clinton is carrying some of the baggage from her husband, boy the
Clinton`s are always under scrutiny and there`s some of that. And that
fact that she`s a woman being subject to a standard that seems that John
Kerry has not -- well now, he is, but those who perceive her as man -- were
not subject to the same kind of standard, can that really -- well I`m just
asking.

GEORGE: Michael.

DYSON: Let me ask Robert George, you can jump and leave it.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, there are couple of things, right? There is the
first thing, remembering, you know, this is the Clinton`s right, and so
they`ve been under investigation for as long as I`ve known and there`s
always.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the last 30 years.

WILLIAMS: Right. There`s always some investigation, there`s always
something in, so me, in general, I find it hard to think if someone who
would be under investigation all the time that I`m going to do something.

And so, me, in general, I find it hard to think if someone who would be
under investigation all the time that I`m going to do something, you know,
deliberately or universally wrong when someone is always watching me.
Like, that`s, you know, that`s number one. Number two, yes, there is a
number of issues regarding sexes and in terms how she`s covered, or how
she`s in a -- held to a different standard as a woman, all of those things
come together.

And so you can`t -- sometimes, you can separate the arguments out, they`re
talking about age, how she`s dressed, how she, you know, being a
grandmother and things like that, you can kind of separate. And then,
sometimes they are all mangled together as in light (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE: When she`s putting out her own server, she`s putting herself --
she`s creating a different standard for herself. I mean, that`s.

DYSIN: But no, but the question of the server itself is, a subject to
scrutiny because this wasn`t the rule when she was doing what she was
doing.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

DYSON: Right?

GEORGE: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

DYSON: Let Mike jump in.

PESCA: Here`s the problem with the Biden bubble the Gore let (ph). If the
problem with Hillary maybe in the specific is this server, there`s always
going to be something, it generate problem. And she stays -- she`s more of
the same. She`s not a refreshing break that`s why a lot of conservative
Republicans, like anyone but Jeb because everyone is different from
Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

BACON: Biden and Gore are still (inaudible).

DYSON: All right. We`ll have to wrap it up for now. but stay with us for
another full hour of news and politics straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Making their voices heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Thanks for staying with us this Sunday morning. I`m Michael Eric
Dyson sitting in for Steve Kornacki.

Let`s still -- lots still to talk about this morning including some of the
loudest and most influential voices in the race for White House, I`ll get
that right. But first, we`ve been staying on top of this morning`s
breaking news, that missing Indonesian airliner with 54 people on board.
For more, let`s go to Alex Witt. Alex.

ALEX WITT, MSNC ANCHOR: All right, Michael, thank you so much for that.
Well, everyone officials have called off the search for a missing
Indonesian Airliner this for the night again thinking their time. Air
traffic controllers losing contact with the regional carrier aircraft just
about 9 minutes 30 nautical miles before it was scheduled to land in
Indonesia`s mountainous eastern province of Papua. The Trigana Air Flight
was making a very short domestic trip in a very remote region. The flight
was carrying 54 passengers total.

For more on all these, I`m joined on the phone by Captain John Cox, MSNBC
Aviation Analyst and a 30-year veteran of U.S. Airways. OK, John, I want
to know what you think about these planes, an ATR42-300 as a prop plane.
What`s your experience?

CAPT. JOHN COX, MSNBC AVIATION ANALYST: The ATR has been in service for
many years. It`s considered a veteran recourse in the industry. It`s well
regarded by the pilots as being a very solid air plane. So it`s got a good
reputation.

WITT: OK. It`s a prop plane. There were reports of bad weather even one
report suggesting that the pilot said it is going to be able impossible to
land in the bad weather at the destination point which was Oksibil. Talk
about the difficulty of landing a plane like this in bad weather.

COX: Well, they have on board with the radar, so as far as being able to
see in aboard the thunderstorm and something that they can certainly do.
As they approach near, both the pilots are going to have a plan to deal
with the weather which includes an alternate airport if necessary so they
have another place to go land. As this airplane have been in flight about
33 minutes so they were familiar with the developing weather situation. We
don`t know exactly what happened yet, we just know that they did not
respond to air traffic control calls and this is obviously something that
the investigators will look at in some depth.

WITT: Yeah. In terms of detail those 54 people, 44 adults, 5 children,
and 5 crew members. John, we know the area to be very, very remote, it is
jungle-like. In fact, apparently there was not even a weather observation
tower at the destination point. What do you think of that?

COX: Well, there is -- I will be very surprised if there was not some
observer that the pilots could talk to. There may not necessarily be a
formal air traffic control tower there but my experience is someone with
the airline will have qualified as a weather observer and the pilots can
talk to them and get the exact conditions at the landing airport.

WITT: Let`s talk about Trigana Airlines. What we know about it John. I
guess you have to note that from 2007 to 2009, this airline was blacklisted
from flying in Europe. Now, a point could be made that they don`t even
have the kinds of planes that would make it to Europe from this regional
Indonesian area. But what is that tell you?

COX: Well, the Indonesian carriers, they are not the only one that have
this listing with the Europeans. You`re correct in that the -- they don`t
have the aircraft that are capable of reaching Europe so as far as
operationally blacklisting would not affect them but it does say something
that there is concern on the part of the Europeans about the way that this
airline operates.

Unfortunately, this airline has had 14 incidents since 1991 according to
the Aviation Safety Network that have been pretty serious. So I think that
the investigators are going to need to look very carefully at the operation
of this airline to see if there are some culture or systemic problems.

WITT: All right. Captain John Cox, thank you so much. And for all of
you, of course, we`ll stay along this and bring you the very latest as we
get some information on this missing plane.

Also this morning, we have learned of the passing of a civil rights icon,
Julian Bond died yesterday after a breathe illness. He was long time board
chairman of the NAACP. He was also founding president of Southern Poverty
Law Center. That center released a statement that reads in part, "with
Julian`s passing the country has lost one of its most passionate and
eloquent voices for the cause of justice."

He advocated not just for African-Americans but for every group. Indeed,
every person subject to oppression and discrimination because he recognize
the common humanity in us all. Julian Bond was 75 years old.

All right, Michael. I`ll be back in about 10, 15 minutes so there update
on that missing plane. Until that, I`ll send it back to you.

DYSON: Thanks Alex. News of Julian Bond`s death comes as the Black Lives
Matter Movement continues to make its voice heard on the campaign trail.
Here`s what happened in Nevada on Wednesday when Jeb Bush was asked how we
would address racial injustices in policing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody needs to be engaged in
this to recognize that this is a serious problem. Perceptions become
reality and there is racism in American, no one should deny that. The best
way to solve these problems are the -- the way that I believe Charleston
solve it rather that communities that were -- there was denial that there
was not a serious problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: Governor Bush met privately with members of the movement before
that townhall but that didn`t stop activists from breaking into chants of
Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter activists scored another big
meeting the day before in New Hampshire sitting down privately with Hillary
Clinton for 15 minutes. They also had plans to disrupt her event, but they
didn`t make it in. And last weekend, protesters took to the mic at a
Bernie Sanders event in Seattle shutting down his remarks on social
security.

Our panel is back with us: Robert George of The New York Post, Mike Pesca,
Sports Commentator for NPR and host of the Slate Podcast, "The Gist"; L.
Joy Williams, political strategist and President of the Brooklyn chapter of
the NAACP; and NBC News Senior Political Reporter Perry Bacon, Jr.

L. Joy, let me begin with you. Julian Bond was a remarkable figure that
you knew as part of the NAACP that I knew very well in my own circles, but
one of the interesting things about the passing of Julian Bond and the
Black Lives Matter movement is that people don`t recognize he was part of
SNCC, Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, which had its tensions
with SCLC, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was Dr. King`s
group. Diane Nash, John Lewis, James Bevel, and Julian Bond and many
others were for a leaderless movement. They challenged the top-down
hierarchy.

WILLIAMS: Right.

DYSON: . that was put forth by preacher-led movements like SCLC. So Black
Lives Matter had its real first incarnation to some degree and in some
measure with SNCC from the `60s. People don`t often make that link.

WILLIAMS: Well.

DYSON: Can you help us make it?

WILLIAMS: . yeah. Well, you know, often times, we look back at history,
and we have a very fantasized view and very fairy tale view of the
movements for freedom. That could be from freedom for this country
overall, from rule to the civil rights movement. You know, we tell the
story as this fairy tale that this happened and everybody was onboard,
everybody was on the bridge with king, and we.

DYSON: Right, right.

WILLIAMS: . we were all moving the country forward. And so, it`s very
interesting to me, both as a student of that movement and movements before,
because we often forget that there were movements for freedom before then,
and as a current social justice advocate, that we don`t look back in
history and see the similarities from there.

And so, completely with SNCC, you can see the similarities. And, you know,
the criticisms of the organizers and the activists in Black Lives Matter
are so similar.

DYSON: Very much.

WILLIAMS: . you know, the two just moving, criticizing their tactics that
they`re using, why are they interrupting people, why are they being, you
know, where are their manners? Sort of.

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: . all the things are the same language that you can just pick
out from different books in seeing that.

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: But I`m so incredibly proud about the work that they`re doing.
Here`s why: because particularly in presidential elections times next week,
we are.

DYSON: Yeah, link it to what`s going on.

WILLIAMS: . right. We see.

DYSON: . with the Democratic program.

WILLIAMS: . the candidates are in Iowa and New Hampshire. They`re in
early primary States and caucuses and the rest of us have to wait -- sit
and wait for the candidates to come to us to address our issues. Here are
now Black Lives Matter activists, young people, saying, "Don`t just --
don`t forget about us, and I`m not going to wait until you tell me using
polls and using coded language on what issues matter to me. I am pushing
my -- pushing your envelope and pushing your buttons to address my issues
now. Don`t just go to caucuses.

DYSON: All right.

WILLIAMS: Don`t just go to the early States, but address my issues now.

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: . and include that in your presidential list of issues."

DYSON: Very good. And naturally in -- especially in New Hampshire and
Iowa, very important.

WILLIAMS: Right.

GEORGE: Which are rather pale states.

PESCA: That`s a fact. No pun intended.

DYSON: Enforcing their agenda, they are really important.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

GEORGE: Yeah.

DYSON: So kindly recap for us what`s going on with the Republicans. We
see with the Democrats what`s going on, Bernie Sanders and Martin O`Malley,
Hillary Rodham Clinton. But though when you have Secret Service, it`s hard
to have a Black Lives Matter.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

DYSON: . movement moment right there. Tell us what`s happening.

GEORGE: Well, it was -- I thought it.

DYSON: . with the Republicans.

GEORGE: I thought it was rather interesting that the Hillary people seem
to sort of prevent them from interrupting her bright lights, sort of
keeping, you know, kind of keeping them out ahead of time, almost like it`s
sort of a peremptory attack.

DYSON: Right.

GEORGE: But look, we were talking about this a little bit in the break.
We`ve seen actually some folks on the Republican side addressing some of
these issues.

DYSON: Give us an example.

GEORGE: Rick Perry actually had a rather thoughtful speech several weeks
ago talking -- seriously addressing racism and inequality, addressing some
of the things that they`ve done to try to address it in taxes.
Unfortunately, it wasn`t covered that much by the media. Ben Carson
actually was here in New York this past week and he engaged now -- he
engaged in on the question of Black Lives Matter in a way that the Black
Lives Matter`s folks may not like, but he.

DYSON: Is he calling them silly? Would there be a problem with it?

GEORGE: No, not -- well, he said that they were kind of pointing fingers
where it would -- he thought that there need to be more internal discussion
within the black community in terms of the.

DYSON: But doesn`t he think there should be less conversation about race
and not more?

GEORGE: He actually -- he didn`t -- he did not go that far to say that.
What he did say was he did talk about the fact that, you know, the number
one cause of death among young black males is homicide and it`s in the
hands of other young black males. Now he`s obviously.

DYSON: The Rudy Giuliani`s school.

GEORGE: But, wait, I don`t think it`s -- I think it`s.

DYSON: . I think there`s a penal between what they`re saying.

GEORGE: But Ben Carson and Rudy Giuliani have incredibly different
backgrounds and I think Ben Carson has a better understanding than Rudy
Giuliani even had.

DYSON: Fair point.

WILLIAMS: That`s.

DYSON: But let me ask Perry. What`s your assessment of the tactics that
the activists are using so proud because there`s been a quite a bit of
criticism like -- especially with Bernie Sanders. "Why are you attacking
our friends, our allies?" A guy like Bernie Sanders who came out
interestingly enough after the Seattle interruption, disruption with a very
strategic and very, you know, interesting and thickly detailed racial
agenda and hire the black woman on top of it. I mean, he`s like upping the
Annie so to speak.

BACON: I think L. Joy is right. These (inaudible) for and people call him
"The Rude" is kind of relevant. And two, the tactics are working. Bernie
Sanders did not have race issues as quite a few months ago. Now, he does.
Matin O`Maley did, now he does. Jeb Bush was not talking about race few
months ago, now, he is.

It`s hard to argue. Like, think like a dreamer and how they brought
immigration today.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

DYSON: Right.

BACON: The whole point, you know, and the goal is not to be nice. The
goal is to get this candidates talk about issues beyond their preferred
talking points. And the activists are moving. They`re having huge impacts
in this campaign.

DYSON: And we`ve seen this before. Not only with the dreamers but with
gay.

BACON: Gay rights.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

DYSON: . exchanged gender, bisexual people. So Mike, give us your sense
of this notion of rudeness.

PESCA: Yeah.

DYSON: aside the efficacy of, as Perry indicated, of demanding the
candidates, you know, and here right now.

Tell us what you`re going to do right now not that the end goal where you
can avoid us again but you have to integrate it into the very fabric of
your discussions about the issues now.

PESCA: Sure, I think the tactic is smart for them. However, I often think
that mass movements are a reflection of what`s going on and what`s brewing
as opposed to the point to the sphere. So, I think this discussion having
now, we`ve got them anniversary Ferguson and the discussion needs to be --
needed to be had and that`s why you have the mass movement.

You know, I covered the Perry speech. I don`t want to give Perry too much
credit. I covered pretty extensively on "The Gist". If you compare
Sanders to Perry, Sanders interrupted Sanders currently only had about 20
percent name recognition in the black community. When we`re talking about
Bernie Sanders` chances, he`s lack of support in the black community.

DYSON: Very.

PESCA: . lack of recognition is his biggest problem. But, you know, he`s
agenda all along, he got more specific was criticized for putting it up
undercover of darkness on his website. I don`t know. You`re not allowed
to do that at three. Fine.

GEORGE: (Inaudible) release an hour then.

PESCA: But his entire political career has been pretty much, you know, in
lack step with what black activism wanting, whereas Rick Perry -- for
Republican, interestingly said, "We are too much into state`s rights," and
yet his solution about how to help the lives of black people is do away
with government regulations because it help the economy on our state.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

DYSON: But let me ask this question very quickly. Minute left. Why has
Barrack Obama not being interrupted by Black Lives Matter?

PESCA: Social, I mean.

DYSON: Well, put up this way.

WILLIAMS: So, right.

GEORGE: But I mean.

DYSON: (inaudible) right?

WILLIAMS: Number one, you know, to the point that was made lightly about
this. So what is very difficult to interrupt the President and also
Hillary Clinton. When you have secret services with them, there`s only so
far -- you`re not getting up to the mic.

BACON: You`re not getting up -- you`re racial.

WILLIAMS: Well, that`s not, you know, that`s not happening. But there has
been.

DYSON: But there have been.

WILLIAMS: . a very critical, you know, both online and in different --
about the president, about him not addressing these issues. And we talk
about this all the time. That statement when he said, "Make me do it."

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: You know, where people have trying to push, you know, for a very
long time, you know, since the beginning of his presidency to push him to
move on these issues.

BACON: Even doing this.

WILLIAMS: Right. And so.

BACON: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: . towards the end of his presidency, we see him doing more -- I
still think rather not but we see him doing more at that (inaudible). But
it`s been a very critical...

GEORGE: Barack Obama managed to unite the white progressives and the black
base together. With him sort of departing the stage, you`re starting to
see more tensions about that and that`s kind of -- a lot of the Black Lives
Matter fright is actually between sort of the black base of the party and
the more of sort of upper crap -- upper class, upper west side.

WILLIAMS: Right.

DYSON: I don`t want to be Black Lives Matter and interrupt but
(inaudible). Still ahead as we continue, military vets speak up on the
Iran nuclear deal. But first, one president made history with the call to
tear down this wall. Now, a presidential candidate is calling for us to
build one. Those details are next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: Donald Trump is promising to unveil his policy positions on
immigration and tax policy next month. But as of now, one of the few
policies he has expressed is his very expensive desire to build a wall
along the U.S. border with Mexico and to make Mexico pay for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We`re building a wall. It`s going to be a wall that is not --
nobody has through my wall. Trump builds walls, I build walls. We`re
building a wall, it`s going to be strong, it`s going to be solid, it`s
going to be policed.

You know, somebody said they can tunnel under, well that`s true but with
extra equipment they can. All you have to do is fly a drawn over it. They
can see that immediately.

So, nobody can go under it, nobody is going over it. And you know what,
we`re going to have a big door for people to come in legally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DYSON: A spokesperson for the Mexican presidential, Bloomberg News this
week that they would not pay for a wall, instead any suggestion that they
would was irresponsible. So, just how realistic is building a wall between
the two countries? And what would a border wall like this accomplish?

Joining me now is Sylvia Longmire. She`s a former senior intelligence
analyst for the State of California and is now a drug war analyst. Sylvia,
what would a wall really look like? I mean, is it possible even to build a
wall that Donald Trump is speaking about along the southern border?

SYLVIA LONGMIRE, DRUG WAR ANALYST: There`s no way that it`s even remotely
practical. First you have the expense. I mean, just one mile of a border
fence cost anywhere from $1.6 million to $22 million. You have
environmental factors to worry about.

And also, a lot of the territory along the southwest border is privately
owned. So, you have to worry about dealing with all the right hate that
comes with buying up that land in order to put the fence there in the first
place.

DYSON: Well, the Mexican President has already contradicted Donald Trump
there. How does that -- do you think play into his ongoing argument that,
"Hey, I`m going to make it. I`m going to do it. I`m going to make them
pay for it. It won`t cost us anything." And all the stuff he`s, you know,
all the things he`s talking. Does this lower his threshold of expectation
around getting this done effectively or is this a talking point to really
ramp up his base?

LONGMIRE: It`s purely political rhetoric. I mean, you take a look at the
last election during the Republican debate, you had candidates that were
saying that we wanted to build an electrified fence that they were going to
build a 2,000 mile fence, this comes up every time during every election
cycle and it really ponders to viewers who want that border fortified but
that doesn`t necessarily mean that it`s practical.

DYSON: Well, would it be an effective way to reduce illegal immigration?

LONGMIRE: No, absolutely not. Now, there is a use for the border fence.
And even border patrol will tell you that the fence is not designed to stop
anyone. The fence is designed to slow people down to move them into places
away from urban areas and for border patrol to apprehend them in areas that
are -- that make communities safer.

However, we`ve seen time and time again that not only does that not work
because people are still getting across the border, but it`s also more
dangerous for the immigrants that are coming across because it funnels them
into more dangerous parts of the border areas.

DYSON: So, some say the border fences are actually having the impact of
keeping the undocumented in the United States, what`s your thought on that?

LONGMIRE: Well, it`s become very, very dangerous for migrants to come not
just for Mexico for Central America. They pay anywhere from $3,000 to
$10,000 per person to hire human smuggler to bring them across the border
to know which parts of the area are not fenced. And a lot of those areas
are extremely dangerous.

So, it`s not only becoming more expensive, it`s becoming more dangerous.
And honestly, the fence isn`t stopping anyone. Added border patrol agents
aren`t stopping anyone. It`s just a matter of desperation, of lack of
security, of lack of economic opportunities.

DYSON: So, what would be the most effective way in your mind of reducing
illegal immigration?

LONGMIRE: Personally, I`m in favor of a strong immigration reform program.
I wish the answer to that would be also be making a lot more money. But,
by enacting an immigration reform by handling that at a legislative level,
at a policy level and removing that from the sphere of law enforcement,
that reduces the burden on our very hard working men and women and cousins
of border protection and border patrol to go after the real national
security threats, the drug smugglers the criminals, the murders and the
folks that are coming across really harm people in this country.

DYSON: And it`s not just across that border, is it the southern one. What
about eastern European, western European, what about other immigrants from
other parts of the world that get lost in the sauce of this conversation?

LONGMIRE: Absolutely. I mean, I you have a lot of immigrants that are
coming not only from Europe, from Africa, from China, and the immigration
system, the visa system is just absolutely broken.

You have a 300,000 case backlog of people that are supposed to be going in
front of only 236 immigration judges. The way to get a legal visa to come
here from some countries is up to 20 years.

For folks in really desperate economic and security situation, how many of
those people are really going to wait 20 years to come here legally. So,
you`re looking at revamping an entire legal and an entire immigration
system.

DYSON: All right. My thanks to Sylvia Longmire for joining us today.

Still ahead, the latest on that missing Indonesian Airliner. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WITT: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Alex Witt. Indonesian airplane turned
54 people as missing this morning. Let`s to right to NBC`s Kelly Cobiella
who`s standing by in London with the very latest. Kelly, to you.

KELLY COBIELLA, NBC NEWS LONDON CORRESPONDENT : Alex, good morning.
Villagers in this remote part of Papua reportedly saw a plane flying low
then crashed into a mountain. This is the very latest according to the
Associated Press. This crash may have been witnessed. Search and rescue
teams are headed to that area, very remote part of Indonesia, close to the
destination airport, that they plan to begin searching at dawn in about 10
hours.

Now, this was a local carrier Trigana Air Service, a twin turbo prop plane.
44 adult, 5 children, 5 crew members on boarders, all of them Indonesian.
The plane was flying from the Provincial Capitol of Jayupura in Papua to
Oksibil. That` about a 45-minute flight, very much a local carrier.

The pilot had been in contact with the airport officials at the
destination. And the last communication according to Indonesian search and
rescue, the pilot said, the visibility was too poor to land. There`s a
very bad weather in the area at that time, heavy rain, strong winds, fog,
and it`s a difficult place to fly and search, as well, Alex, dense jungle
and mountains.

In fact, some planes that have gone there have never been found. But at
this hour, it does appear that villagers near the destination airport about
15 miles from the destination airport, saw the crash then the plane flew
into a mountain. We`ll keep you up-to-date, Alex.

WITT: Well, at least, that is a bit of at least glimmer under search and
rescue operates they`re be to locate that, as you said, very mountainous.
It`s difficult reason to try find people and the plane. Thank you so much,
Kelly from London.

And now, on the very latest out of Tianjin, China. State media reporting
that the death toll there has risen to 112. This in the wake of the
explosion at the chemical warehouse on Wednesday, nearly 100 people that
were still missing, most of them fire fighters. Authorities are working to
contain contamination that has been detected beyond the site of the blast.

All right, we`ll have more news in politics straight ahead for you on "Up
with Steve Kornacki", Michael Eric Dyson sitting in. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: The only Republican Senator considering supporting the Iran Deal
has come out against it. Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona will not vote for
the deal saying the Benefits Code are outweighed by severe limitations, the
JCPOA places on Congress and future administrations in responding to Iran`s
non nuclear behavior in the region.

When Congress returns in September, the Iran Deal will come up for debate,
and Republican lawmakers have plans to try to block its passage. So it was
a big deal this week when 36 retired generals and admirals signed an open
letter in support of the deal, writing quote, "The international deal
blocks the potential pathways to a nuclear bomb, provides for intrusive
verification and strengthens American national security. America and our
allies in the Middle East and around the World will be safer when this
agreement is fully implemented.

Joining me now is retired Rear Admiral James Barnett, who signed the open
letter. Sir, tells us -- thank you, first of all for joining us. But tell
us why you signed this letter.

JAMES BARNETT, REAR ADMIRAL (RET.) U.S. NAVY: Dr. Dyson, we thought it was
really important to state what this agreement. There seem to be a lot of
false information, misunderstandings about what it is. This is a good
deal. This does what it said it has to do to prevent Iran from getting a
nuclear weapon.

The alternative is probably war, and even for those people who think that a
military solution to be used, this is a good deal because it gathers
together the international community. We have to give diplomacy a chance
to work first. And this is a verifiable deal. It`s not based on trust,
it`s based on inspections and continuos monitoring of their nuclear sites.

DYSON: It does have that especially Reaganite (ph) component of trust but
verify. So.

BARNETT: But actually, it`s not trust. We don`t trust them. And just
that, you know, started the life in uniform during the cold war. We didn`t
trust the Soviets but we`ve had agreements with them to reduce arms. This
is an even more intrusive agreement than that with regard to inspections.

DYSON: If you have a platform before these U.S. Senators who were
undecided, what would you say to them to sway them to your side of this
opinion?

BARNETT: Look at what the agreement does. I mean, there`s monitoring of
their entire nuclear production facilities from the mines, to the storage,
to the refining, the centrifuges, and at last for 25 years. They have to
commit to never having a nuclear weapon. They reduced their current stock
of -- by 98 percent. They`ve had enough visceral material right now to
make eight to 10 bombs right now. And then the other thing I would tell
are our members of Congress is that the alternative is terrible. They can
have these nuclear weapons within a few months, and then we really don`t
have any options after that.

So we really need to go for the International Communities come together on
this, the sanctions that we`re already put on them have worked to bring the
Iranians to the table, and we need to give this a chance to work
particularly when we`ve got such an intrusive inspection regime that has
been set up.

DYSON: A -- first of all, the letters that was sent by several senators
trying to preemptively strike against this deal. Has there been a blow
back from that, number one? And number two, what about Americans who were
concerned about national security, should this make them even more anxious?

BARNETT: Actually, this makes me a lot less concerned about national
security. Because really the Iranians were already -- they had to fore do
nuclear plant that was discovered several years ago, by the way, our
intelligence our allies, the U.S. Intelligent Services discovered that. We
know what they`re doing.

It`s hard to hide nuclear production. It takes tens of thousands of
centrifuges to enrich uranium. And in this particular deal, they`re going
to pour concrete into the Iraq heavy water erector. They`re going to have
to ship out their spent fuel for years and years. They will -- this will
in effect. So that gives me a better feeling not only about the national
security but also the regional security of our allies.

DYSON: All right let me turn to the panel. The president needs 15 votes
to for govern, you know, to protect himself safeguard against a veto, is he
going to get them?

PESCA: Well, I think he`s going to get the votes. Could I ask a question
to the admiral though?

DYSON: Sure.

PESCA: Yeah, I don`t know -- I agree with everything, Admiral. I agree
with everything that you`ve been saying from what I`ve read about the deal
about pushing back breakout time and I also understand why the president
would frame it in this way compare the deal to know deal and just look at
how long it will take Iran to get the bomb. Fine.

But what about the extra aspect that by lifting sanctions this will make
them flux with cash they`re going to be able to fund Hamas they`re going to
be able to fund the Houthis. But let`s talk about Hamas why -- I`m sorry
has Hezbolla.

BARNETT: Hezbolla.

PESCA: Yeah. Why is that not a primary concern? Are you worried that
Hezbollah is going to be able to cause so much more havoc and we have to
weigh that against the benefits of a breakout time that`s a few months
longer.

BARNETT: They just sat down (inaudible). Those are all legitimate
concerns. So here`s the thing it doesn`t make them flux with cash. I mean
because of these sanctions, Iran is about $500 million behind. They have
critical needs.

In other things, all of our other sanctions with regards to terrorism, with
regard to missiles, with regard to human rights, we`re trying to get
Americans out of Iran all of those sanctions still stay in place this
sanctions just have to do with the nuclear deal and they have to perform
first before it need them to go into effect.

They`re not going to be fluxed of cash and really they`re going to be the
money that they do get is going to be oversees, it`s going to be used for
trade and they`ll have to use it in some ways in order to release some of
the tremendous economics problems they`ve have because of this sanctions.

DYSON: Well, President Obama has made the argument that short of this deal
what we are left was either A, going to war the failure of diplomacy, B, to
work, and then, C, that you don`t have any kind of mechanism in place that
hold them to accountability and to foresaw a potential strike of Iran
against its neighbor in Israel and other areas of the region. Does that
make sense to you?

BARNETT: Michael it`s a key point because it`s not just I will get a
better deal if we hold out longer letting this deal laps means to sanction
will start eroding immediately. It means they will get a nuclear weapon
within months maybe a year. And all of the things that have been held them
and check will also start going away and I think there would be much worst
of problems for our allies in the region if we don`t have this deal in
place particularly because this is an historic deal.

Not only have our European allies, we`ve also got Russia and China that
they have signed on it. And the way that this works is if Iran ever cheats
-- and we`ll know if they are -- we can snap those sanctions back in place
without a Chinese or a Russian veto.

DYSON: Let me ask you this question, when people like you decorated in war
those who have obviously represent in our military signed on to a deal like
this. It gives the president its seems to be far more legitimacy then U.S
senators many of home have never darken the corridors of those theaters of
war and more broadly it suggest that they are something powerful to be said
when the U.S military figures come to say this is a big deal.

BARNETT: Well, Michael you`re going to find military officers on both
sides with this particular one but every military officer agrees that we
really cannot allow the Iranians to have nuclear weapons. In every senior
military officer is thought in our military education about the DIME
Principle as Diplomacy Information Military and Economics the instruments
of national security policy. So we`ve view the economics to bring the
Iranian to the table.

We have information out there about that we know about what there nuclear
capabilities are now. We have to use diplomacy particularly when we
already gathered international community together around this deal before
we move to military and if we don`t do this military is about the only
option left.

DYSON: My thanks to James Barnett for joining us this morning.

BARNETT: Thank you.

DYSON: Still ahead as we continue, beyond the helicopter what would Donald
Trumps policy plans look like? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: This was a headline in the Washington Post this past week, "An Iowa
surprise, Donald Trump is actually trying to win". If Trumps campaign
isn`t a joke which seems more, more likely and his actually trying to win
he has to build on actual campaign, that means having a real agenda with
real policies and those real policies maybe in the works with Trump telling
the post he`ll reveal his immigration and text policy plans next month.

We`re joined now by Stephen Moore, Chief Economists at the Heritage
Foundation who plans to meet with Trump next month and talk about his
economic policy. Stephen, are you going to meet with them on the
helicopter or on the, you know, where -- have you figured our where you`re
going to recontoured here with the Donald this coming week?

STEPHEN MOORE, CHIEF ECONOMIST OF THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good morning,
Michael. Well, look, I`ve formed this group committee down leash
prosperity with Steve Forbes, and Art Laffer, and Larry Kaplow and others.
And, you know, our mission is you know how do we increase economic growth,
how do we make this country prosperous again and we meet with, you know,
almost all of the candidates of the Republican side with them actually
extended limitations, Hilary Clinton and other some of Democratic side.

But Donald Trump has agreed to meet with us in September. And, you know,
we`re going to ask him some hard questions about what does he believe on
taxes, on trade, on immigration, and energy policy and all of these others.
And hopefully, you know, having some influence on where is this positions
are.

DYSON: No, but.

MOORE: Right now he has already put out much of a statement. He`s put.

DYSON: Well, I`m going to say that he`s not saying much.

MOORE: Yeah.

DYSON: I don`t want to -- let me ask you this very quickly. So is Donald
Trump going to get away with the kind of generalities and the vague
universalities that he`s been articulating does far, you guys seemed poised
to really, you know, put screws one so to speak and make him.

MOORE: Yeah.

DYSON: . give specific detailed.

MOORE: Right.

DYSON: . you know, analysis and answers.

MOORE: Well, you know, that`s a great question because sometimes
presidential candidates never get really, really specific about what they
want to do. I remember when Bill Clinton run for president in putting
people first. There wasn`t a lot of meat of the bones and sometimes that
can be a successful strategy but I do think, Michael, if Donald Trump is in
this to win and there is no question from -- in my mind that he is in this
to win that he actually thinks he can win the Republican nomination -- that
he`s going to have to convince Republican voters that he`s a conservative.

These are free market guy that he believes in lower taxes, and he believes
in, you know, less regulation and I`d say pro immigration. The thing that
troubles me -- and there`s a lot about Trump that I like, I haven`t -- I
don`t have a dog in this fight right now -- but I would say this that the
thing that`s most concerning is his trade protection that`s a language when
he talks about China eating our lunch and Mexico as that next China.

DYSON: Right.

MOORE: . and China is currency manipulator, you know, Republicans are
generally a free trade party and one of the things I`m going to tell him by
the way, Michael, I was going to say, the last Republican president was a
protectionist was Herbert Hoover.

DYSON: Right.

MOORE: And that didn`t turn out so well for the Republicans.

DYSON: Yeah, that dam didn`t work out. But look when you think about the
fact that Donald Trump brags about his money more than Jay-Z or your
favorite rapper, how is that money issue going to play into this election
and will it make a difference in terms of what Donald Trump ends up doing
vis-a-vis his populous massage?

MOORE: You know, it`s a great question. And I actually think he`s handled
the money question well. He said, "Look, I made billion of dollars and I`m
proud of it." In fact, he`s been hit on the right for the fact that he`s
going bankrupt so many times. So, and, you know, his answered questions
for example the other day was ask about, you know, he said that he want to
pay a little taxes as possible. And, you know, the press came out and how
can you say that, and he said, "Look for two reasons, one is -- look -- I
thought that was a great answer.

He said, "Look, as a businessman, if I pay less taxes, that`s more money I
can use to hire more workers and pay them more money" and he said, "Second
of all, Washington wastes so much money, they don`t need anymore of my
money."

So, you know, those of the kinds of answers that I think are very appealing
to people. Look, he is running as a non-politician. He doesn`t follow any
of the conventional rules. We haven`t seen anything like this I think in
50 years in American politics.

DYSON: All right. 15 seconds. Tell me in your mind, is Donald Trump a
serious candidate? Is he trying to assess the wall, so you think that
there`s no doubt in your mind?

MOORE: There`s no doubt in my mind.

DYSON: Yeah.

MOORE: Look, he`s part of this is the more -- he`s the greatest marketing
person I`ve seen in politics in my lifetime but I think he and his campaign
now believe they can win this race.

DYSON: All right.

MOORE: We`ll see.

DYSON: All right. My thanks to Stephen Moore for joining us this morning.

MOORE: OK, thank you.

DYSON: And this program bring reminded that if you want to hear more from
Donald Trump, you`re going to want to catch check tab exclusive interview
on today`s meet the press airing the this afternoon in 2 P.M. Eastern right
here on MSNBC. You can also catch the full interview on
meetthepressnbc.com.

Up next, the new Blockbuster at the box office that is way more than just a
movie. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DYSON: There`s a lot going on this morning. Let`s get caught up on some
of the other headlines making news with today`s panel.

The admiral talked about the DIME Principle. Let`s link that to this Los
Angeles Times if you were at headline. "Straight Outta Compton` raps to a
big box office opening". It earned $24 million on Friday and it`s on its
way to earning at least $55 million by the end of this weekend. It will be
one of the best August openings ever for a movie. Not a black movie, not a
biopic, not a musical like in any -- explain Ice Cube and Dr. Drake.

GEORGE: You know, last year it was "Guardians of the Galaxy". This year
it`s NWA. Well, first of all it`s a well-done movie just in general. It`s
put together but it`s also compelling. It`s hitting in a cultural moment
why you`re seeing tensions between African-American community and the
police. This is it over the significant scene where they`re told not to
play their song "Blanca Police" and they go ahead and play.

DYSON: In Detroit.

GEORGE: . it in Detroit. And there`s a riot and there is -- and I was
saying this before early on, you know, with Donald Trump out there, where
you have these people who are saying what they feel is their truth and they
don`t want to be held take inventions of political correctness.

DYSON: Right.

GEORGE: It`s heading in an interesting call for a moment.

DYSON: All right, are you in that or.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. I haven`t seen it. I don`t know if I`ll see it in
theaters but it is also interesting to know sort of the frenzy that was
caused by law enforcement. I found that theaters here in the New York they
had a auxiliary cop sitting outside the theater just sitting there.

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: And is that, you know, we`re talking about the movement and how
people of color are treated differently in this country. And so, this
movie somehow is more violent and more prone to violence than all the other
movies that have guns and shooting up and tearing up the world.

BACON: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: .but somehow we need a police car in front of the theater just
in case black people decided to do something.

DYSON: Great. Well, it`s been -- it is been fascinating. I.

GEORGE: And it`s blacks and white at the movie.

PESCA: It`s a -- yeah. It`s across ends of generations. I mean guys in
N.A. are hallow of 46, 47.

DYSON: And billionaires like Donald Trump maybe they can run for a
president.

PESCA: Yeah so, you know, 30 years where the people are going to watch
this movie and it`s also uplifting, I mean, you know, Ice Cube wins at the
end right?

DYSON: I mean.

PESCA: And so, it`s not a downer.

DYSON: Yes.

PESCA: And as great as movie like telling me what -- we know what happens
at the end.

DYSON: Great. Well.

GEORGE: And as Donald Trump said, "It ain`t about the salary it`s a go
about reality."

DYSON: There`s no doubt. I got to tell you, was a seminary professor and
in the Hartford Seminary running an anti property project, teaching ethics
but I had my Bible in one hand and NWA in the other but, you know, blank
the police chemistry from the underground, a young brother got it back
because it brown and not the other color so police think they have the
authority to kill a minority, blank (inaudible) the one for black, white
with the badge and a gun to be beaten on.

How relevant is that to Black Lives Matter now and the movement in the
streets talking about...

WILLIAMS: Right.

DYSON: . police brutality.

WILLIAMS: Right.

DYSON: . mistrust between the police departments and the communities of
other culture?

WILLIAMS: And it`s particularly interesting because our sort of helps to
amplify what.

BACON: All right.

WILLIAMS: . is happening currently and that`s what NWA did and now it was
belief that a perfect time they continue that conversation.

DYSON: All right we`re going to toss right now to Alex Witt with an update
for that Indonesia plane.

PESCA: Maybe we are.

DYSON: OK that`s all right. So let`s look.

GEORGE: How many look?

DYSON: Let`s toss back to me. All right she`s ready now, Alex Witt.

WITT: Hey, I am so sorry. We`ve been monitoring everything from our desk
just so, you know, we`re getting word from the ministry of transportation
official in Indonesia. They say they have found the plane.

This is the plane we`ve been following this ATR42-300. 54 people onboard.
It is a plane that disappeared about 30 nautical miles or so from its
landing destination. That was in Oksibil. The destination point there in
Indonesia had happen -- the disappearance happen around 1 A.M. Eastern
time.

The problem, as you know, Michael has been the fact that it was in a very,
very remote area that it went down. But again, they are just getting word
through the transportation ministry that that plane has been found. They
will look to see if they can provide rescue or recovery operations there
and that is just the very latest. Latest story out of Indonesia. So run
back to studio to bring it to you.

DYSON: All right. Hey Alex, let me ask you one more question. Is there
any fear of any kind of extraneous or external kind of forces on this plane
other than weather?

WITT: You know, that would be very premature to speculate and of course
it`s always a question that is asked given the region or actually any plane
traveling in the world this days, Michael, but the fact is there were
report so some terrible weather, increment weather and we know that the
last communication from the pilot to the control tower is that they were
having trouble landing.

They were worried about the landing because of the bad weather. This is a
very mountainous region. There are reports that plane have never been
found in this remote jungle area so at this point it looks like weather
related but not confirmed.

DYSON: All right Alex, thank you for that update.

WITT: OK.

DYSON: All right. Let`s go back to our headlines. Let`s go to the next
one although we could stay all day of course on NWA. You want to hear
about it though? Our crazy brother named Ice Cube from a game called with
attitude, you two boy if you`re OK. So now the New York Times.

GEORGE: It was actually.

DYSON: Expressed of self is a great one, is a really great thing.

GEORGE: (Inaudible) first thing, I mean with this one

DYSON: It absolutely. Taken from an R&B standard from earlier, New York
Times AT&T help U.S. spy on internet on a vast scale. So there`s
information out there that AT&T somehow at some relationship to spying on.

PESCA: Paging, paging Rand Paul actually. I mean this is.

DYSON: This is a libertarian, right?

GEORGE: No, this is something that certainly in the warehouse of the
center and I think it`s going to -- I think at some minutes going to get
people. I agitated on both sides.

DYSON: And very quickly we have to go after the sporting news, NFL`s first
female coach official take fail together. We can comment on that. I just
want to say amen to the NFL for doing the right thing is not just
politically correct, it`s athletically correct and why do we want to be
correct about everything except politics is besides me.

My thanks to our panel for joining us, Robert George, Mike Pesca, L. Joy
Williams and Perry Bacon Jr. and thank you for getting up with us today.

Up next is Melissa Harris Perry. Joy Reid is sitting in for Melissa today,
stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)






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