updated 8/26/2015 5:48:55 PM ET 2015-08-26T21:48:55

Date: August 25, 2015

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in

Donald Trump, of course, has been taking questions from reporters in
Dubuque, Iowa. Let`s keep listening.

actually gave him quite a bit of money. I liked his fight. I liked his
drive. And he actually came to my office six months ago, gave me a trophy,
gave me a beautiful plaque. And I thought that was very nice.

And in the end, I think people see, though, that what`s happening in
Wisconsin -- I love the people of Wisconsin. I know Wisconsin well. I
have friends that live there. And they`re incredible people.

But if you look at what`s going on in Wisconsin, I think people saw
that they have a $2.2 billion budget deficit. It was supposed to be a
surplus of a billion. That`s a tremendous -- they`re borrowing to a point
that nobody thought possible. They`re ranked number 38 in the states,
which isn`t exactly a good ranking, better than others that are running,
but frankly, not a good ranking. And they have a lot of problems.

And there`s a lot of division in the state, to put it mildly. And I
think people -- I do like Scott, but I think people have seen what`s
happened in the state. And he was -- you know, the first -- when I first
announced, I was second and he was first. I think I was at 10 percent and
he was at 22 percent.

Now I think I`m at 22 or 24 percent, and he`s at 6 percent. I think
what happened is people have really looked seriously at what`s going on in
Wisconsin, and it has not been helpful to him, unfortunately.

QUESTION: Mr. Trump...

Yes, go ahead.


TRUMP: Well, I do read tweets. And I mean, to a certain extent I do,
yes. I think that`s right. You want me to say no? I retweet. You know,
I retweet for a reason, right? Go ahead.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Christian vote during the primaries.


QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) next to "The Art of the Deal," the Bible is
your favorite book. Is there anyone in the Bible that you really relate
to, that you can compare your life to, that you look up to?

TRUMP: Nobody that I would compare to. That is so -- it`s such a --
it`s actually a great question. I love the Bible. I love the Bible. I`m
a Protestant. I`m a Presbyterian. I went to Sunday school. Dr. Norman
Vincent Peale, "The Power of Positive Thinking," was my pastor. He was to
this day one of the great speakers I`ve ever seen. You hated to leave
church. You hated when the sermon was over. That`s how great he was,
Marble Collegiate church.

And I also had a church in Jamaica, Queens, when I grew up in Queens.
And it was wonderful, First Presbyterian church of Jamaica. And I was
there for years. And that`s where I went to Sunday school.

One you know, of the things that`s so incredible about the New
Hampshire numbers is I lead with everybody. I lead with old, with young,
as you saw -- you saw it, everybody.

But one of the groups I lead with substantially, evangelicals. And
I`ve led in Iowa, too, with the evangelicals because they get it. They`re
incredible people that are really smart, and they want to see our country

And -- but the beautiful thing -- because it was such a comprehensive
poll in New Hampshire, and they just went over everything. Tea Party,
like, leading by a lot, moderates leading by a lot -- everybody.

Literally, I think -- I mean, you`ll correct me if I`m wrong, but I
think I led with every single group, and by substantial numbers. So I was
very honored to lead but with the evangelicals. I love the evangelicals.



TRUMP: Yes, good. Absolutely. Good. Absolutely. Good to have you

QUESTION: Thank you very much.


QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) is full of empty promises.


QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) 11 million (INAUDIBLE) You cannot deny
citizenship to the children in this country. You cannot (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Why do you say that?

QUESTION: You cannot do that.

TRUMP: Well, a lot of people think...


TRUMP: No, no. Excuse me.

QUESTION: You have to change the Constitution in this country.

TRUMP: A lot of people -- no, no, but a lot of people think that`s
not right, that an act of Congress can do it. Now, it`s possibly going to
have to be tested in courts, but a lot of people think that if you come and
you`re on the other side of the border -- I`m not talking about Mexico,
somebody on the other side of the border. A woman is getting ready to have
a baby. She crosses the border for one day, has the baby. All of a
sudden, for the next 80 years, hopefully longer, but for the next 80 years,
we have to take care of the people.


TRUMP: I don`t think there`s -- no, no, no, I don`t think so.


TRUMP: Excuse me. Some of the greatest legal scholars -- and I know
some of the television scholars agree with you, but some of the great legal
scholars agree that that`s not true, that if you come across...


TRUMP: Excuse me just one second.


TRUMP: No, no, I am answering. If you come across for one day, one
day, and you have a baby, now the baby is going to be an American citizen.


TRUMP: There are great legal -- excuse me. There are great legal
scholars, the top, that say that`s absolutely wrong. It`s going to be
tested, OK?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) how are you going to build a 1900-mile wall?

TRUMP: Very easy. I`m a builder. That`s easy.


TRUMP: I build buildings that are...


TRUMP: Can I tell you what`s more complicated? What`s more
complicated is building a building that`s 95 stories tall, OK?


TRUMP: You think so? Really? I don`t think so.


TRUMP: A lot of people don`t think so.


TRUMP: I don`t believe that. OK, you`re right. I don`t believe it.
And the drugs come. I see them -- they have pictures, they have
everything, crawling over the fences, which are, by the way, this high. I
mean, you have fences that are not as tall as I am.


TRUMP: Oh, they`re coming by many different ways. But the primary
way they`re coming is being right through, right past our border patrols,
who, by the way, are tremendous people. And they can do the job, but
they`re told not to.

QUESTION: How are you going to deport 11 million (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Here`s what we`re going to do. Ready?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Are you going to bring the Army?

TRUMP: No, no. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. We`re going to do
it in a very humane fashion. Believe me. I have a bigger heart than you
do. We`re going to do it in a very humane fashion. The thing we`re going
to do...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Is there one question (INAUDIBLE) move on

TRUMP: OK. The one thing we`re going to start with immediately are
the gangs, and the real bad ones. And you do agree there are some bad
ones. Do you agree with that, or do you think everyone`s is just perfect?


TRUMP: No, no. I asked you a question.


TRUMP: Do you agree with that?


TRUMP: We have tremendous crime. We have tremendous problems...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) not criminals.

TRUMP: This -- I can`t deal with this.

Listen, we have tremendous crime. We have tremendously -- we have
some very bad ones. And I think you would agree with that, right?


TRUMP: OK, there are a lot of bad ones, real bad ones, because, you
know, they looked at some of the gangs...


TRUMP: Excuse me. They looked at some of the gangs in Baltimore.
They looked at some of the gangs in Chicago. They looked even in Ferguson.
They got some rough illegal immigrants in those gangs.

They`re getting out. You mind if I send them out? Now, if they come
from Mexico, do you mind if I send them back to Mexico?


TRUMP: No, no. Do you mind if I send them back to Mexico?

QUESTION: If they`re criminal (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: OK. Those people are out. They`re going to be out so fast,
your head will spin, all right? The rest, we`re going to do in a --
remember, you used the word "illegal immigrant."

QUESTION: No, I didn`t use the word (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: OK, well, you should use it because that`s what the definition

QUESTION: No human being is illegal.

TRUMP: OK, well, when they cross the border, from a legal standpoint,
they`re illegal immigrant when they don`t have their papers.


TRUMP: And I want to make it possible -- and I think you`ll like
this. This is the part you`re going to like. I want these people, the
good people -- I want them to come back and I want them to get
documentation and get so they become legal.


TRUMP: It`s going to be -- you know what it`s called? Management.
See, you`re not used to good management because you`re always talking about


TRUMP: Government -- let me just tell you. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Government is incompetent. Guys like Bush and some others that I won`t
name, they`re incompetent people. They don`t have it. They don`t have it.

I agree, they can`t do it. But I`m a great manager. I know how to
manage things. I hire unbelievable people. When I look at the vets...


TRUMP: When I look at the VA -- excuse me. When I look at the VA --
we spend billions of dollars, and people are treated horribly, OK?
Horribly. That`ll work great. What we`re doing here will work great. And
we want to get good people back in.

And also...


TRUMP: Let me just tell you...


TRUMP: I`m giving you specifics. I`m giving you -- great management.
And they`re going to, hopefully, come back in very soon.

OK. Another question? Wait.

QUESTION: Mr. Trump?

TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. Yes, sir.

QUESTION: Is there any specific change in the law you`d make to limit
the influence of money in politics?

TRUMP: Money in politics? Well, I think there should be, frankly,
more transparency because I see a guy like Jeb Bush, with $114 million,
which is now higher, and nobody even knows who put the money in. And they
all control him like a little puppet, OK?

I know half of the people. I mean, I don`t know who they are because
I can`t find it out, but as soon as they do, I will know most of them.
They`re friends of mine. I used to be there. I used to be the king of
that, OK? I know the system better than anybody.

The fact is that whether it`s Jeb or Hillary or any of them, they`re
all controlled by these people. And the people that control them are the
special interests, the lobbyists and the donors. And they`re controlling -
- you know what the nice part about me? I don`t need anybody`s money.

I mean, if a woman sends me the $7, I take it because that`s great
because she`s investing in this country in a proper way, not in an improper
way. But I don`t need money. It`s the beautiful thing.

So nobody`s getting -- so if I say that I don`t want Ford building, in
this case in Mexico, or someplace else, in all fairness, China, I want them
to build here, I`m not going to be hit by the Ford lobby and by all the
other lobbies that you know who they are better than I do. They`re not
going to hit me because they didn`t give 10 cents to my campaign because I
don`t want their money. So it`s very important.

QUESTION: But should it be limited legally? Would you favor...

TRUMP: I won`t -- I don`t know about the limits. I think the most
important thing is transparency. You have to know who you`re dealing with.

And right now, you don`t. You don`t. And I`m talking about PACs in
all fairness. I have a lot of good friends, they like to put money into
PACs, many friends -- some enemies, too, by the way. But I have many
friends, they put money into PACs.

And you need transparency. You need to know who`s putting up what, so
when they start making deals in a year or two years or three years, you
know what`s happening.

OK, how about one more question? Go ahead.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) that most of the illegal immigrants in this
country are either criminals or...

TRUMP: No. Not at all! I never said that.


TRUMP: No. I think most of them are good people. I love that
question because, you know, hopefully, maybe somebody -- no, I think most
of them are very good people.

But they are here illegally. And we`re a country of laws and we`re a
country of borders. We have to have a border. And we`ll have a border,
and we`ll have a wall and the wall`s going to have a big beautiful door
where people can come in legally, and also where we can bring talented
people. We need that in the Silicon Valley.

When somebody goes to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, the Wharton School of
Finance, we send them out as soon as they graduate. They can`t stay here.
It`s ridiculous. They want to be here. So then they go to their country,
wherever it may be, whether it`s Asia, Mexico, wherever it may be, and they
compete against us. I don`t want that.


TRUMP: All right, how about one more then? Yes, ma`am, go ahead.


TRUMP: In where?

QUESTION: In Wisconsin. But in the latest poll numbers there,
Governor Walker is leading amongst Republicans at 25 percent and you`re at
9. What do you make of those numbers (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: In Wisconsin? I really don`t know. I mean, I haven`t gotten
there. I would think we`d win...


TRUMP: I would think we`d win Wisconsin. I mean, I have a great
relationship with the people of Wisconsin. But you know, I haven`t
started. I haven`t been thinking about Wisconsin right now, and Governor
Walker certainly has been. I don`t know what the poll is.

I know this. In Florida, they just came out with a poll. And I`m at
28 and Bush is much lower, and Senator Rubio, who`s the sitting senator, is
much, much lower. So I don`t know. I think I`ll do very well in
Wisconsin. I think so.


QUESTION: One more?

TRUMP: Yes. Yes, sir. Go ahead.


TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

QUESTION: Well, you think that you`re going to be able to (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Well, he came up. He wants to support my campaign. But then
I said, Oh, gee, he said some negative things about me. Then he comes up
to my office two, three hours later. He wants to be a part of my campaign.

But you know, he`s a hedge fund guy. And honestly, maybe the hedge
fund guys won`t like me too much. I know a lot about hedge funds. I also
know how they`re taxed better than he does. So maybe they won`t because
maybe they won`t like me. You understand.

But he came up. He came up. He wants to support me. He wanted to
leave Walker to support me. But I didn`t make it so easy for him.

OK, go ahead.

QUESTION: Do you think it matters how Fox News covers you?

TRUMP: I don`t know. Look, I have a lot of respect for Roger. We`ll
see. I mean, you know, maybe, maybe not. I really don`t know.

Look, I think they cover me terribly. Fox News? I think they cover
me terribly, and I`m winning by double digits in every poll. So I don`t
know. Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn`t. I don`t think I get good
treatment by -- from Fox. They certainly cover me a lot.


TRUMP: Well, I`m being covered by everybody.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) influence how you are doing in polls?

TRUMP: I don`t know. I don`t think so because I think they give me
very bad treatment. I think Fox treats me terribly. And a lot of the
people that like me think they treat me terribly.

But I don`t think -- I mean, what, you think I was asked nice, easy
questions? The other guys are saying, What are you going to do about jobs?
Another one saying, Do you love God? Another one says something else.

I get these questions -- like, what`s going on here? And yet I won.
In every single poll of the debate, I won. I won from Drudge. I won in
"Time" magazine. I won all the -- everybody thought I won the debate.

But I certainly had the worst questions, the most unfair questions.
And you know, I like Fox. I like it. But no, I think they treat me very


TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. I`ll do that. I`ll do that.


TRUMP: The which?

QUESTION: The Twitter fights (INAUDIBLE) tweeting about Megyn Kelly

TRUMP: Takes two seconds. You do a couple of tweets...


TRUMP: Because when people treat me unfairly, I don`t let them
forget. And maybe we should do that more in this country and maybe the
country wouldn`t be pushed around so much.

Go ahead, Mr. Jorge.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) you say that you`re going to win the Latino

TRUMP: I think so because I`m going to bring jobs back.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) the Univision polls said 75 percent of

TRUMP: How much am I suing Univision for right now?


TRUMP: No, no, no, no. Do you know the number?


TRUMP: NO, no, no. Tell me.


TRUMP: Tell me. Do you know the number? And you know you`re a part
of the lawsuit. How much am I suing Univision for?


TRUMP: Wait, wait.


TRUMP: It`s $500 million.


TRUMP: And they`re very concerned about it, I have to tell you. I`m
very good at this stuff.

yes, go ahead.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) 75 percent of Latino...

TRUMP: I don`t think I will.


TRUMP: I haven`t even started!

QUESTION: ... Latinos have a negative opinion of you.

TRUMP: Do you know how many Latinos...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) candidate among the (INAUDIBLE) check social

TRUMP: Do you know how many Latinos work for me?


TRUMP: Do you know how many Hispanics are working for me?


TRUMP: OK. They love me. They love me.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Do you know how many Hispanics work for me?
Thousands. Do you know how many have worked for me over the years? Tens
of thousands.


TRUMP: Here`s what happens.


TRUMP: Once I win, you`re going to see things happen. You know what
they want? They want jobs. That`s what they want. In Nevada -- did you
see the poll of the Hispanics in the state of Nevada? Did you see the...


TRUMP: Excuse me. Big Hispanic population. I wiped everybody out.
Hispanic. I won the poll.

QUESTION: No, nationwide (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Excuse me. I`m not talking nation -- I`m talking the only
poll I saw. The one that came out, which was in the state of Nevada, I
wiped everybody out. I wiped them out. With Hispanics. You saw that,
right? Did you see it?


TRUMP: Wait. Did you see it.


TRUMP: OK. He`s an honest guy. Now I like him. OK.


TRUMP: You and I will talk. We`ll have -- we`re going to be talking
a lot over the years.


TRUMP: We will. We will.

OK, thank you, everybody.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) write them yourself?

TRUMP: I think about them myself.

QUESTION: Did you write-

TRUMP: I like -- very interesting because a lot of people have been
asking me because in Alabama, I got very high marks for a speech. And I
honestly feel -- and it`s one of the things I`m going to talk about. I`m
always on live television. And if you`re on television every three or four
days, you got to say things different. Can`t be on the same -- and give
the same stories, right?

I think about my speeches. And I don`t believe in teleprompters,
although it`s very easy. Oh, would I like to go up and stand and read a
speech for a half an hour and just leave. But you know what happens? You
wouldn`t have sold-out crowds like we have outside. You wouldn`t have
30,000 people like we had in Alabama. You wouldn`t have the crowd that we
had the other night in New Hampshire. You just wouldn`t have it. It`s not
the same.

In fact, I jokingly say if you`re running for president, you shouldn`t
be allowed to use teleprompters. So I think about my speeches a lot. I
think about what I`m going to say, but I essentially don`t use notes and I
definitely don`t read the speeches because I think it`s -- it`s much
easier. But you know what happens? You don`t have the same vibrancy. You

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) at night when you`re on Twitter writing tweets,
do you write them yourself or (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: I do a lot of things by myself. People would be surprised.


TRUMP: People are shocked at how smart I am, right?


TRUMP: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: Well, Donald Trump has just finished taking reporters`
questions in Iowa, in Dubuque. He`ll be giving a speech any moment now.
We`ll bring you that live.

But first, I`m joined right now by "The Washington Post`s" Robert
Costa and Salon editor-at-large Joan Walsh. She`s also an MSNBC political

Anyway, Trump`s events today came amid a fight he`s waged against Fox
News. Last night, while Megyn Kelly`s show was airing on Fox, Trump
tweeted, "Megyn Kelly must have had a terrible vacation. She`s really off
her game."

Well, later, he wrote, "I liked `The Kelly File` much better without
Megyn Kelly. Perhaps she can take another 11-day unscheduled vacation."

He also retweeted this attack, "The bimbo back in town. I hope not
for long."

Well, Fox News chairman Roger Ailes put out a statement today calling
on Trump to apologize to his star anchor. In part, he said, quote, "Donald
Trump`s surprise and unprovoked attack on Megyn Kelly during her show last
night is an unacceptable -- is unacceptable -- as unacceptable as it is
disturbing. Megyn Kelly represents the very best of American journalism."

Well, Trump responded a little while later to that, quote, "I totally
disagree with the Fox statement. I do not think Megyn Kelly is a quality
journalist. I think her questioning of me, despite all the polls saying I
won the debate, was very unfair." That`s Donald Trump.

At a press conference just moments ago, he said he would not apologize
to Kelly. Here he goes again.


TRUMP: No, I wouldn`t do that. She actually should be apologizing to
me. But I would not do that, no.

QUESTION: Why should she apologize to you?

TRUMP: Because I thought her questioning and her attitude was totally
inappropriate. So it just...


TRUMP: Well, if you look -- all you have to do is look at the
Internet today, and you`ll see who -- who people favor in that one.

But I wouldn`t -- it`s a very small element in my life, Megyn Kelly.
I don`t care about Megyn Kelly. But no, I would not apologize. She should
probably apologize to me. But I just don`t care.


MATTHEWS: Anyway, Donald Trump versus Megyn Kelly continues to be the
big battle out of the August 6th Fox News debate. And that`s not exactly a
surprise. You could see it coming.


MATTHEWS: And I`m wondering whether it`s going to be a battle maybe
between Megyn and Donald. I`m just trying to think through the drama
tonight, like Roger has already thought through it a hundred times by now.

I think the real debate`s going to be Megyn Kelly against Donald


MATTHEWS: Because she`s going to want to score points professionally,
and she has a way of having the camera look at her while she judges whether
you`re right or not.

By the way, the best matchup tonight -- and I know this is just pure
media chatter, but it may -- I think it`s going to be Donald Trump against
Megyn Kelly. I think she`s going to be tough in her questions. He`s going
to not like to take it from her. He`ll try to stop her from scoring any
points on him, and that`s when he`ll lose.


MATTHEWS: Joan Walsh, let me ask you about how much of this is opera
bouffe and how much of it is real? Are they just trying to build a fight
the P.T. Barnum way, I mean -- sorry -- build a crowd by starting a fight?
What is going on here? Is this a real grudge, public display of anger by

JOAN WALSH, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it`s a real public
display of pique at least by Trump, Chris.

To sit at night and tweet, live-tweet Megyn Kelly`s return from
vacation? It`s incredibly petty. It`s incredibly bullying to say those
things. It`s one thing if he had one it in the heat of after the debate.
He was upset. He kept it up, he`s keeping it up, and he`s winning.

I think the thing that is working out for him that shocked Roger Ailes
is that the FOX viewers really sided with Donald Trump, and they turned on
this woman who had really been a star and who had a lot of fans. She still
has fans, obviously.


WALSH: But the negativity and the hatred and the nasty things that
have been said I think shocked Ailes.

However, I think Trump keeping it up put Ailes in a position today
where he had to do something to defend her. He was perceived as siding
with Trump essentially to try to get him back to his airwaves after the
last go-round. That was really I thought humiliating for Megyn Kelly.

But -- so now he`s not going to let it alone. He gets attention. He
gets attention from the kinds of guys who like seeing him slap down a
woman. And Ailes seemed to have had enough. I don`t know how this ends,
though. I don`t know that Ailes -- he didn`t ask him to do anything. He
said he should apologize. He didn`t say unless he apologizing, he isn`t
coming on our shows. So, we will see.

MATTHEWS: Yes. I think the ball is in his court, though.

What do you think, Robert? What do think of the report here?

ROBERT COSTA, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I got on the phone today with my
sources inside FOX News, and they said Ailes, the people around him
startled by Trump`s Twitter attack, weren`t expecting it.

MATTHEWS: The bimbo thing.

COSTA: Thought it was a cease-fire, thought Ailes and Trump had come
to some kind of an agreement. This came out of left field for them. They
knew Ailes had to get out quick and respond to it, protect Kelly. Joan is
exactly right.

The Trump people, though, I checked in with their campaign today.
They say Trump is the most unpredictable candidate and just because he has
an agreement one week doesn`t mean it lasts another.

MATTHEWS: I get the feeling -- and, Joan, you check me on this --
we`re both in this world of television and journalism together. And they
obviously work against each other. Sometimes, they work with each other.

The drama operation here. It seems to me that what Megyn -- if you
watch Megyn Kelly -- I watch "The File," Megyn Kelly report.

WALSH: Right.

MATTHEWS: What she does is, she sits there -- she`s obviously a very
attractive person, but she sits there and judges with almost no expression
on her face. She looks just like Trump, just like Trump in "The

But she makes Trump the apprentice in this case. She`s judging him.
And you could see it during the debate. It wasn`t that she asked him tough
questions. It was, she`s judging him. And I think he hated being judged.
That`s my hunch.

WALSH: Especially by a woman. I think that`s a really good point.

Look, I consider it professional. She has a thing she does. It`s not
everybody`s thing. But I don`t think it`s unprofessional. I don`t think
it`s wrong. She is a tough interviewer. You were right to predict that
they would -- that they might clash, they might have fireworks.

But now I think he`s -- I think you`re right. I think she got him in
a particular way. Look, Bret Baier asked him the hardest question, by
saying, are you going to support the Republican nominee? Chris Wallace
went after his finances. You could say that those two guys were also very
tough on him. All of FOX was tough on him that night. But it`s Megyn
Kelly that he can`t let alone?


WALSH: There`s something psychological here, that this woman seemed
to put him in his place about other women and he just will not -- he will
not leave it go.

MATTHEWS: And, Joan, she was judging him as a person.


MATTHEWS: She was going after his character, she was going after his
core. And who are you, Ms., to judge me, Donald Trump?

Anyway, I`m joined right now by Kasie Hunt, who is in Dubuque, Iowa,
where Donald Trump is expected to speak very soon.

Kasie, this is quite a show. He had that fight with the guy from
Univision, but then he brought the guy back in and the other guy wouldn`t
stop talking either. This was a battle of whatever, not exactly an
intellectual discussion, from what I could tell.

Your thoughts.

KASIE HUNT, NBC CORRESPONDENT: It was a battle of wills, Chris, for

At first, Ramos, the anchor at Univision and also at Fusion, stood up
and tried to ask a question about immigration. Trump ignored him. And
then one of his security -- members of his security detail came over and
escorted Ramos from the room.

Trump was pressed a little bit on whether he should have done it that

MATTHEWS: Yes, I know.

HUNT: And he ultimately said, you know what? He can come back and
take questions. So, Ramos was eventually led back into the room and did
have a pretty contentious exchange with Trump about immigration, but no
real difference obviously in what he had to say about that particular
subject, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Was that treated as a disruption by the journalist from
Univision or as a legitimate effort to get the attention of the host, Mr.
Trump? What was it, a disruption or was he mishandled?


HUNT: I mean, I think it simply depends on how you normally view
these press conferences.

Trump was calling one by one on reporters in the room. So, from that
perspective, he was interrupted. But the reality was that it felt very
much like the forced removal of a journalist. He`s an anchor on one of the
evening newscasts on a major network. It was definitely a noteworthy and
uncomfortable moment in the room, without question.

MATTHEWS: Robert, it reminded me of the 1964 convention, the
Goldwater convention out in `64, and also other conventions like in `68.
These are a long time ago -- where Dan Rather was manhandled or John
Chancellor, or people are being thrown out of the room, grabbed by security
people. There was an aspect of that.

COSTA: And it`s something that Trump is going to have to deal with
this as his campaign grows, because he`s been one of the most accessible
politicians. He`s gone on almost every show. He`s talking to reporters,
he`s picking up the phone.

At the same time, he kind of likes these combative exchanges. At the
end of that exchange with Ramos, he`s inviting him to lunch, say, we will
talk more in the campaign to come. This is the yin and yang of Trump. He
can go real hard, maybe over the top. At the same time, he`s bringing him

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about the media fight here.

Roger Ailes has put together a hell of a network. We all know that.
The numbers are high. It`s a conservative network. Who is the boss here,
Trump or Ailes? Who is the big daddy here?

COSTA: It`s a battle to be the big daddy.

MATTHEWS: You`re answering my question.


COSTA: I have been covering the conservative movement. It`s unheard
of on the right to go after Ailes. You just don`t do it on the right. If
you`re a Republican politician or you`re an activist...


MATTHEWS: But he`s getting away with it.

COSTA: He is. He`s getting away with it. You`re seeing FOX
reacting. This is an ongoing battle.

MATTHEWS: OK. What side is Rush Limbaugh taking? Because is the
grand vizier.

COSTA: Have you been listening to Limbaugh?

MATTHEWS: Tell me. I haven`t been. I come to work here. OK?


COSTA: Well, you have got to read the transcripts of Limbaugh every
day. He`s all over Trump. He loves that Trump is...


MATTHEWS: So, he`s taking the side of Trump?


COSTA: Oh, he`s rallying to Trump. He likes Trump on immigration.
He`s not endorsing Trump. He`s being a little cagey about that. But he`s
certainly supportive in what he says.

MATTHEWS: We have got a lot of alpha males here, Joan Walsh. You got
three I can think of.

You got Limbaugh, the -- almost the spiritual, what do you call it,
witch doctor of the right, to use an old phrase. And then you have got
Ailes, who has the network which is awesome, and then you have got the
candidate who has got the spotlight right now.

If Limbaugh jumps in on one side, I guess he tilts the table to Trump.

WALSH: Well, I think Trump has seen that there`s nothing to pay. He
doesn`t have to pay for these insults to Megyn Kelly. So, in that sense,
he is the boss.

I also thought that the whole exchange with Jorge Ramos was very
interesting, because, yes, he was being disruptive. He might have thought
that was the only way to get his question answered. But Donald Trump got
the headline, got the sound bite of the night that he wants. Go back to
Univision. It`s like telling somebody, go back to Mexico.



WALSH: His nativist -- his nativist fans loved that moment, even
though he did let the guy in later and seemed a little bit more reasonably.

But I don`t think we have seen anything like this fight between Trump
and Ailes.

MATTHEWS: What happened to the left and the center-left, Joan, where
we`re more comfortable? What happened? Why are they so boring compared to
this? I mean, Bernie gets a good Vaudeville crowd out there where he goes,
but there`s no real competition.

He`s out on the road with college campuses doing a great job at
reminding everybody what the `60s were like. And I do like that. I like
to hear his message, too. We need to hear it. But there`s no real foison.
There`s no real fight going on. There`s no -- even if Joe Biden does get
in this thing, I don`t sense it will have its -- the power of this kind of
argument on the right, right now to grab our attention.

WALSH: Well, no, because I think there`s a lot of agreement on the
left side. There are small differences on tax breaks and on single-payer
vs. the Obamacare model as it exists now.


WALSH: There are definitely disagreements, but it`s not as visceral.
I just don`t -- I don`t see anybody who has even the temperament.

I mean, look, Hillary Clinton did scare a lot of people. We might
have seen a more interesting range of candidates if she hadn`t seemed so
dominant. So, we don`t know what that would have been like. I agree with
you, if Biden gets in, there`s not a lot of daylight between the two of

So, all that can happen is a kind of personal battle that I personally
don`t want to see. But I think that the left is kind of clustered around
solutions and has had a track record.


WALSH: I mean, what Obama done has been blocked.

COSTA: The parties are so different. The parties are so different.

The Democratic Party has a sitting president, it has power centers,
Biden, Obama, Warren. Republican Party, leaderless. Vacuum.

MATTHEWS: Yes. I agree. I don`t think Reince Priebus is holding
this game together.

We`re waiting right now to hear from Donald Trump in Dubuque, when he
talks to the people out there. Tonight, we`re going to bring it to you
live as it happens.

Much more HARDBALL coming up right after this.


MATTHEWS: We`re back awaiting Donald Trump to meet the people out
there in Dubuque.

I`m joined by Robert Costa and Howard Dean here in New York --
actually, in Washington. Up in New York is Joan Walsh. She is also with
us. And I love having her with us. NBC`s Katy Tur is out there with me.

Let me go to Katy Tur.

What did you make, having been a student, I guess? You could write a
book on this guy Trump right now. Maybe a short book. We don`t know how
long it is going to be, but it`s a book. What do you make of the fact of
how he handled the guy from Univision? He seemed to be caught off-guard.
The guy was bothering him. He was reacting negatively. He was causing him
to get off his game. And then he said, wait a minute, I went too far. I
better get him back in here and make nice.

What do you think?

KATY TUR, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I think that`s -- I think that`s
exactly right.

TUR: I think, initially, he was caught off-guard and he did not
handle it well.

Ramos got up and started pretty aggressively throwing questions at
him. But that`s to be expected. Ramos has been trying to get an interview
with Donald Trump since he made those immigration comments two months ago

MATTHEWS: Oh, OK. Who is the big guy?


MATTHEWS: Who is the lug, Katy, that pushed him out the door?

TUR: That`s his body man. That`s his body man. He`s actually a very
nice guy, I should say.


TUR: No, but it`s his body man.

But when it got heated and Trump didn`t want to answer the questions,
didn`t like that he stood up and challenged him, wanted to go to Chip Reid,
who was sitting a couple people down from me, and then he looked at his
body man and said, get this guy out of here.

And he got him out. It was aggressive and it was definitely a moment.
I think he realized pretty quickly though that it was maybe not the best
optics to throw Jorge Ramos out of his press conference. And he was
eventually let back in, where he was able to ask a few questions. Not
necessarily that Trump answered them to Ramos` liking. He wanted to get
more specifics on how he would get those 11 million undocumented immigrants
out, but no word on that from Trump specifically.

MATTHEWS: I think, Katy -- thanks so much, Katy Tur out there in
Dubuque, and Donald Trump`s joining -- you know what reminded me, guys?

Governor, thank you for joining us, Robert for staying, and, of
course, up in New York, Joan.

It reminded me of the old conventions I grew up with, where they beat
up Dan Rather, they beat up John Chancellor in the `64, `68. And Cronkite
would be saying, we have got some thugs out there on the floor.

That`s going to be tied together on links. You watch. Robert, it`s
not your era, but it is going to come back.

COSTA: It`s not my era.

MATTHEWS: They will bring it back now. Those tapes are still

COSTA: The tapes are still available.

But Trump`s got to be careful, right, because the campaign`s only
getting bigger. It`s swelling. He`s hiring all these people.

MATTHEWS: Well, there is a history in this country of this kind of
behavior in press conferences.

HOWARD DEAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the bad thing about this
is Jorge Ramos is probably the best known Hispanic journalist in America.
You do not do -- this is the equivalent of throwing Walter Cronkite out of
a convention with your body guy. This is really -- this is a big deal.

MATTHEWS: He didn`t have a good camera...



MATTHEWS: But that guy was about 8 feet tall that came after him.

DEAN: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Trump acted like he didn`t even know him. It turns out,
according to Katy, who has been covering it, he`s his body man. He`s the
guy that looks out for him. You can`t exactly disown the guy.

DEAN: Yes. This is -- he`s just a showman.

I was watching the conference from the green room. And, oh, my God.
He is unbelievable. I just can`t believe he gets away with it.


MATTHEWS: Well, he may not. I think he got a little nervous there.
He went back and said, I better make nice with the guy.

Anyway, Donald Trump has just begun his speech in Dubuque, Iowa.


MATTHEWS: Not quite. He`s still getting introduced.

I`m going to go back to Joan.

Your bottom line, who won that tussle? Because we are inevitably
going to get back to the real battle, which is Megyn vs. Donald. Who won
between him and Univision? By the way, he`s battling two networks now.


WALSH: Right. He is. He`s taking on two networks.

But, look, remember when Newt Gingrich went after Juan Williams in the
South Carolina debate in 2012? That worked for him. In the Republican --
in a Republican field, going after journalists, it gets you high marks.

MATTHEWS: Minorities.

WALSH: So I think that they both won, because Jorge got to ask some
questions, got to show what a bully Trump can be, got that line, go back to

And Trump showed his supporters that he`s a tough guy. But you`re
right, he did kind of blink. By bringing him back in, he did have a moment
of self-awareness, which we have not yet seen on the trail, where it was
like maybe -- Governor Dean is right -- maybe I have gone too far.

MATTHEWS: Yes. I don`t think Donald Trump make the effort you did to
the Spanish elocution there.



MATTHEWS: It`s like Nicaragua. It`s one of those words that is
really distinguished in Spanish and in English. But obviously Trump just
said Univision, what do you -- take it or not. But go back to Univision,
you`re right, has a certain get back across where you came from aspect to

DEAN: I know.

MATTHEWS: And that has that aspect where...

DEAN: And again this guy is incredibly well-known in the Hispanic


DEAN: For him to say that he`s going to win the Latino vote after you
humiliate one of the most prominent people in the American Latino community
is incredible.

MATTHEWS: OK. One thing about this, Governor, you don`t need a
scorecard to see who is winning and losing. You don`t need a scorecard to
know what side people are on. Trump has a certain point of view here.

DEAN: Yes, he does.

MATTHEWS: You either like it or you don`t.

These people like it. Those who aren`t in the stadium probably won`t
like it.

Here he is, Trump again, for the real-life adventure of Donald Trump.
Oh, wait a minute. We have got music. He`s walking out now to the
lectern. It`s going to be interesting if he gets asked about Megyn and
whether he gets asked about Univision. I bet there will be no questions
about Univision from this crowd, only about Megyn. And I bet they`re all
on Trump`s side.

Look at these signs. By the way, there`s a woman that thought they
saw Donald Trump`s face in her butter the other day, which is the biggest
story tonight, like an apparition, like he`s the Blessed Mother or
something. Excuse me. He ain`t.


MATTHEWS: Anyway, here it goes.


AUDIENCE: Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump!
Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump!
Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump!


TRUMP: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And thank you very much. They
said a record. Now I understand why they have a record in this room, what
a room. What a place. What a place.

Iowa, do we love it.


TRUMP: Great. Great.

You know, we had a big day today, because a lot of polls came out, and
the polls were really nothing short of tremendous. We had -- and it just
came -- in New Hampshire, which is an amazing place, with, like you,
incredible people, they love the country, and they want to see our country
be great again. That`s what they want. They work hard. They love it.

And we had 35 percent, and the second place was so far back, we won`t
even talk about it, because I want to be nice tonight.


TRUMP: I want to be nice.

In South Carolina, we had 30 percent, and that was a tremendous poll,
tremendous energy, tremendous money spent, 30 percent, second place.
Again, we`re going to be so nice. Should we be nice or not? Should we be?
Yes. A little bit, a little bit.

So, we had 30 percent. That`s the Monmouth poll, big one. The Gravis
national poll just came out, 40.1 percent. That`s national, 40.1 percent.


TRUMP: I want the election tomorrow.


TRUMP: Ann Coulter is here.

Ann, can we call for an immediate election, please, OK, like in so
many other countries? I want an immediate election, Ann. All right?

Go out, buy her book, by the way. It`s actually a very good book.
And, oh, is it true.

Now, very importantly for -- for Iowa, anybody ever heard of the corn
kernel? Everybody heard -- the corn kernel poll. We were at 36 percent,
won very easily. And so we had four of them. And that came from the state
fair. And I`ll tell you what. Last week, I came to the state fair. I
came well-equipped in a helicopter. And we took the kids for rides. And
those kids love me. Those kids -- and I love those kids, but we had an
amazing time.

My pilot said, is that enough, Mr. Trump, after going up and down like
a yo-yo. I said, nope, you got to keep doing it.

We had an amazing time. I know it means a lot to the people here and
having gotten that vote is incredible.

So, here`s what`s happening. It`s a little bit of a different
situation. I think maybe than has happened before. A great journalist
called me, somebody that I don`t know but somebody that I have great
respect for, one of the major newspapers.

And he said, "Could I ask you one question, Mr. Trump." "What?" "How
does it feel?" "How does what feel?" He said, "This was the summer of
Trump." Do you believe this? How good is that for my ego? Is that good?


But they said -- he said -- I mean and he`s really one of the -- now
the press is going to say, who is it, who is it, who is it. But one of the
really top people, not even necessarily a fan of mine but I think he`s
becoming a fan rapidly. He said, how does it feel?

So, I said, why do you ask that question, because it doesn`t feel -- I
man, I`ve got to win. It`s one thing to have the summer of Trump. Doesn`t
mean anything unless we win both the nomination and we got to beat Hillary
or whoever is running, whoever is running.


No, otherwise it doesn`t mean anything. I don`t know. If you lose,
like, what does it all matter?

And he said, it doesn`t matter if you win or not. What you`ve done
has never been done -- nobody`s ever really seen what`s happened here.
Nobody has really seen this, with the polls and the enthusiasm and the
press, and the ratings.

And you know why those cameras are all red lighted? Because of
ratings. If I didn`t get ratings, they wouldn`t be here. They wouldn`t be


They`re not nice people. They don`t care about me. They don`t care
about you. They don`t care about anything. The other thing they care
about is ratings.

You know, when I did "The Apprentice" which was a tremendous success,
I was hosting "Saturday Night Live" and Lorne Michaels came up to me. And
it was bedlam. It was bedlam.

The show was number one. It was doing like crazy, and here I am
hosting "Saturday Night Live." My mother and father never would have
believed this. And Lorne Michaels came up to me and said, this is great.

I said, you know, Lorne, it won`t always be like this, some day the
ratings won`t be good and NBC will call me and they`ll say, I`m sorry, Mr.
Trump, but the ratings are no good, we`re going to cancel the show. And he
looked at me and he said -- I never forget it -- he said, no, there`s one
thing wrong. They won`t even bother to call.

It`s true. They won`t even bother to call. And, you know, "The
Apprentice" was a tremendous hit. NBC renewed it. I may be like the only
one or one of certainly like you can count them on your hand that turned
down a major renewal.

In fact, Mark Burnett said, you got to be kidding. You got to be
kidding. You`re turning down a major renewal. He called it is a renewal.
He said, you`re turning down a renewal.

Nobody turns it down. I turned it down for many, many shows. And you
see the kind of money they paid me. You remember you had that certain
anchor who said he didn`t believe it, bah, bah, bah, and then he had to
apologize. A lot of money, a lot of money, it turned out a lot of money,
because I heads of NBC, the head of Comcast, who`s an amazing guys, great

We`ll just call him Steve, but I want to tell you, he`s a great guy.
The head of NBC, the head of reality television. They came to my office
like five months ago. They sat in my chairs.

They said, Donald, we want -- we`ve already renewed. We want you. We
love you. They don`t love me so much any more. I have to be honest.

And I said to them, fellas, I really want to run for president. I
want to make America great again. It`s very simple. I want to do it.


And they didn`t believe me. They didn`t believe me. And I said,
honestly. I`m going to do it. They had the up-fronts. That`s when they
announce all the shows. We`re announcing we`re renewing "The Apprentice"
with Donald Trump. I can`t believe it.

Nobody believed me. My wife said to me, she said, you know nobody
believes your running, because I looked at it serious mostly last time. I
looked at it un-seriously over the years but last year pretty seriously.

I said, what do you mean? She goes, if you ever actually announce,
you`re going to go through -- she knows people like me. Actually I`m a
nice person. Nobody knows that.

It`s true. People don`t -- I tell people, I`m a nice person. In some
ways it`s not good. We`ll talk about China and negotiations. I don`t want
to be a nice person for them. But I am. I love people. I love helping

And my wife to me, Melania, she said to me, she said, if you run,
you`re going to win. But you have to announce because if they take polls
nobody`s going to say you`re running, right? And Ann knows that.

And I said, well, I don`t know. And I`ll tell you why, it takes
courage to run. It really does. You`re really exposing yourself like


The press is honestly a lot of the press is, especially the political
press -- you know the financial press has been pretty good to me over the

In "Businessweek" magazine, they named me a while ago the best in a
people`s poll the best negotiator. Wouldn`t that be nice to have a good
negotiator? I don`t want to brag about it. It`s just -- wouldn`t it be

I mean, look at what`s happening with China. I`ve been predicting
China -- I`ve been saying China`s taking our jobs, our money, our base, our
manufacturing. I just told the press -- and we owe them. Think of it.
They`ve taken our money and our jobs, our manufacturing. But they`ve taken

It`s one of the greatest thefts in the history of the world what
they`ve taken out of our country. They`ve rebuilt China, and we owe them -
- think of it. We owe them. They take everything, $1.4 trillion. How do
you do that? That`s like a magic act.

How good are they as negotiators? They take everything and we owe
them money. We owe Japan $1.4 trillion. Same number. We owe them both
$1.4 trillion, for whatever reason. Same number.

The balance, the deficits, the numbers are crazy. If you look at the
deficit we have with Japan, the deficit we have with China, the deficit we
have with almost everybody, honestly, they`re big abusers.

And by the way, I love them. They buy my apartments. It`s true. I
own a big chunk -- the biggest chunk as you maybe know, the Bank of
America. But a lot of people didn`t know.

Actually most people didn`t know I own the Bank of America building in
San Francisco. Big, big, big chunk. It`s a great building. I got it from
the Chinese. I did great.


They still don`t know what happened. But that`s what we need, right?

I own 1290, big, big chunk, 1290 Avenue of the Americas. Many
building in New York. But I do great with the Chinese, and they`re great
people. The problem is their leaders are too smart for our leaders. Such
very simple.

I`m a free trader. I believe in free trade. I like free trade. I
like free trade.

But free trade`s only good if you have smart representatives. It`s
not good if we have dummies. It`s not good if our leaders are incompetent.
It`s not good if they`ve never read "The Art of the Deal," one of the
greatest books of all time, second to the bible. Way, way, way, deep

You know how far below it is? I said that`s my favorite book of all
time. My second favorite book. What`s your favorite? I said the bible.

It`s not even close. People were shocked. They were shocked that I
actually said that. But it is the greatest book of all time, the bible.
Nothing even close.

So, we have a situation where people that run for political office --
and I`ve heard this for years -- they do really take chances and it is
something that`s not very pleasant.

And you read things about yourself that don`t exist, very little good,
but a lot of bad things that aren`t true. And I have to tell you with that
I`ve met some unbelievable really talented political reporters, but I`ve
also met very bad ones and very dishonest ones. And we have to do
something about our country. We have to take it back.

You know, I`ve been using a term that hasn`t been used in a long time.
It`s called the silent majority. You`re the silent majority. I`m the
silent majority.


And they`re tired of politicians other than -- are there any
politicians in the room? Because we`re excluding you. You`re fabulous.

But politicians are all talk and no action. Talk and no action.
That`s true. They`re tired.


You know, I`ve been watching Bush on the border. He`s in a seersucker
suit talking about, yes, oh, yes, the anchor baby, oh, I shouldn`t say
anchor baby.

You know, he puts out a report saying "do not use the term anchor
baby." Then I used it, my polls go through the roof and now he`s using
anchor baby and he`s taking criticism.

And you know the funniest thing is that he`s taken tremendous
criticism for use the term "anchor baby" and I use it all the time and
nobody cares when I say it because they sort of expect it from me, I think.
Right? Right?


Crazy. Crazy.

But politicians are all talk no action. You know, I saw that at the
debate and I love doing the debate, I was treated very unfairly.


But it was fine because I won every poll. "Time" magazine. We won
the polls. I was so happy. But then I was treated -- I watched the
politicians and the politicians talk. Now I have heard that Jeb Bush was
the mentor to Marco Rubio. Nice -- two nice people.

I think Jeb is a nice person. He`s very low energy. I`m not used to
that kind of a person.


I`m just not used to it. I`m used to dealing with killers. People
that go argh.

I mean, you know, negotiating with Japan, negotiating with China.
When these people walk in the room, they don`t say, "Oh, hello. How`s the
weather? So beautiful outside. Isn`t it lovely? How are the Yankees
doing? Oh, they`re doing wonderful. Great" They say, "We want deal."
They jump out of the seat.

But I watched -- by the way, before I say this, who would you rather
have negotiating against China? Against Iran? What a deal that is, OK?
You talk about incompetent people. Against anybody, Jeb Bush, Hillary
Clinton or Trump?


I think so. I think so. You believe me. Believe me.


Thank you. You know, it`s funny, I was degraded on a speech I made
recently. They gave me all A`s, they said the one mistake he makes is that
he speaks through the applause.

That`s true. You know what? Because I don`t have time. It`s true.
They gave me this great mark. They said his speak -- they love the way I
move my hands. I never even thought of it.

They said they love this, that, but they said he speaks so well, but
hi speaks through his applause and it`s bad for him because he kills a lot
of applause. And I thought about it and I said, you know, "That`s right."
and I tried not doing that. But I want to get going. I want to get things
done. Does everybody here know that, right, you know?


So Jeb Bush was Marco Rubio and Marco Rubio is a nice guy. And so is
Jeb Bush, I think he`s a nice person. But I don`t care. I don`t care if
he`s nice. I want somebody that`s going to make us great deals and make us
rich again and he can`t do it.


So, Marco Rubio was not supposed to run, right? Because he wouldn`t
run because his mentor in Florida, the state of Florida -- which, by the
way, I beat both of them in the polls. Can you believe it? A sitting
senator, a governor and Trump is way the hell up here. It`s crazy.


But -- but Marco Rubio wasn`t supposed to run. All of a sudden he
announced he`s running and people thought it was very disrespect to a
person that brought him along. Slowly brought him along, right?

So beautiful.

So, what happened -- and it was interesting -- I said, oh, now if it
was me, if I were Bush and I brought somebody along and I -- I`m older than
Marco and, all of a sudden, the guy, the young guy that I brought along
says, "I`m running against you and it`s not my turn but I don`t care
because I`m really anxious, I`m really driven. For myself, I`m driven."
And he said "I`m running against him and I don`t care."

I would really go after that guy. I`d say he`s the most disloyal guy.
He`s a terrible person. He`s horrible and I hate him. OK?


I`d that. Or at least I`d say it to myself, OK? Probably not to the
world but believe me I wouldn`t be -- so I saw them on the stage where
recently and Jeb saying, "Oh, Marco`s a dear friend of mine. He`s a dear,
dear friend. He`s such a wonderful person." And Marco saying "Oh, I love

You notice Jeb never uses his last name? Why? Because he`s ashamed
of it! Why? But if I were Marco -- but in particular if I was Jeb I
wouldn`t say, "Marco`s a good friend of mine."

Marco did something that he wasn`t supposed to do. He ran. I`ve
never said this before and I watch these two guys and they`re hugging and
they`re kissing and they`re holding each other.

Very much like actually Chris Christie did with the president.


I`m only kidding.

No, but they`re hugging and they`re kissing. They`re hugging and
they`re kissing and they`re proclaiming their great deep love for each
other and I`m saying politicians -- all talk, no action, it`s all bull,
we`ve got to stop.

We need people in are going to take us to the promised land. We need
people that are going to be great.

So, again, we look at Mexico -- thank you.

You look at Mexico, which is the new China, by the way. They`re doing
great. And what`s come out, you know? A lot of incoming, as Rush Limbaugh
said. He said Trump has taken more incoming when I first announced.

All I did was tell the truth. But you look at Mexico, the new China.
You look at Ford building a massive plant there. You look at other
companies from Europe, from all over.

A plant was going to be built in Tennessee, big, big, billion-dollar
automobile plant. It`s not being built in Tennessee anymore. It`s going
to go to Mexico.

Nabisco -- I have holdings in Chicago, I have a great building in
Chicago. Nabisco, they have a factory, big factory, they make Oreos. I`m
never eating Oreos again, ever, ever.

Yes, maybe. Maybe if I can find some made in the United States, I

But they`re closing their big plant in Chicago and they`re moving it
to Mexico. What`s going on? I mean, how stupid are we?

You`re right.

So where and why are we doing this? Why are we allowing it to happen?

So, what I would do if I were president, I talk to these people.
Somebody has to talk to them. If you don`t talk to them, it`s never going
to change. It`s never going to happen.

And you can get them to stay in Chicago. You can get them to build
someplace else in the country. You can get Ford, believe me, to stay in
this country.

Now, sometimes, it`s so unfair, the trade agreements, if you look at
the amount of business that`s been moves out of our -- whether it`s Mexico
or many other countries -- been moved out. It`s absolutely uncontrollable
by the people that we have currently and we can do something to change it.

Now, let me just tell you -- and I tell people this all the time. I
go to Nabisco or I go to Ford and I said, fellas, I don`t want you. I
don`t want you. I have Carl Icahn ready. Killer, killer.

I have other people already. I have so people that are so nasty, so
mean, so horrible nobody in Iowa will want to have dinner with them.


It`s true. They`re horrible human beings. I admit it. They`re Wall
Street killers. Most of them, a couple of them are nice, like 2 percent.
But they`re the greatest negotiators in the world.

I know the best, I know guys that are overrated. I know guys that are
really good. I know people you`ve never heard of that are better than all
of them.

We`re going to use our best. But I would say to, let`s say, the head
of Ford, and you`ve heard me say this because that`s a big abuse, $2.5
billion for a plant? How many plants do we close to build a new plant in
Mexico? $2.5 billion.

You`re right.

So how many do we do. So I would say very simply, fellas, sorry, you
have to move back. Now, when they build those cars, trucks, and parts,
they send them over. No tax, no nothing.

And they`ve come up with a new scheme. Illegals are going to drive
the cars over -- no, it`s true! It`s true! It`s true!


Because it`s -- it works so nicely. Nobody`s going to check them.
Why just drive beautiful cars, that I`ll probably keep them and just live
happily for the rest of their lives in the United States, you know?

But we have to do something about it. Now let`s say Jeb Bush is
president. He knows it`s wrong. He`s not a stupid person. I don`t think.
I don`t know, what do I know?

But let`s say he`s president and he knows it`s wrong. He`s going say,
"No, no, no, we don`t want that."


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