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'The Rachel Maddow Show' for Wednesday, August 26th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: August 26, 2015
Guest: Dan Rather, Frank Rich



MARIA HINOJOSA, JOURNALIST: Which means that things backfire on you.
You know what, without Latino voters, this could back fire on Donald Trump.

CHRIS HAYES, "ALL IN" HOST: Maria Hinojosa and Josh Barro, thank
you.

That is "ALL IN" for this evening.

THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts now.

Good evening, Rachel.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend.

HAYES: You bet.

MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

Hey, big news -- today, the formal FEC paperwork was filed for
Elizabeth Warren to run for president of the United States, Elizabeth Ann
Warren of Massachusetts for president of the United States. That filing
put in today with the FEC. It`s true. Look, this is the official
paperwork. It was just posted on the FEC website today.

And it was not posted there by Elizabeth Warren herself. So, even
though it may look like she is running for president, there is no
indication that she is running for president. The double take fake
Elizabeth Warren running for president FEC filing today was posted
alongside some new fake Joe Biden is running for president FEC filings
today.

There are also new running for president filings today at the FEC
from Mr. Spiky Porcupine Jr. Spiky R. Porcupine.

Frosty Chicken will be running as an independent. Remo mini
Schnauzer cutest dog ever is running in the DOG party. All caps, D-O-G.

Forrest Gump is running as a Democrat. Bill Clinton is running. I
don`t think it is that Bill Clinton. Marshawn Lynch is running for the
peace and freedom party, which is nice.

I`m not sure if this is a Mr. or a Mrs., but there is a person named
Cranky Pants who has filed with the FEC to run for president. Mister
Wookas is also running. First name Mister. Last name Wookas. And also,
Elizabeth Warren and another Joe Biden.

The poor FEC. This is a daily thing now with all these jokes and
fake filing to run for president. But the FEC has to respond to all of
them just in case the Remo Mini Schnauzer will make a run for it.

The FEC by law has to process all paperwork for all presidential
candidates. They also have to process the paperwork when people create
political action committees, when they create PACs and super PACs.

And just like with candidates, whether or not the PAC is a serious
thing or not, the FEC has to make sure you follow the letter of the law.
So for both candidates and PACs, you should know that the letter of the law
says you can`t include a candidate`s name in the formal name of the
committee that you were registering with the FEC. You can`t have the name
of the candidate in the name of the committee.

Because of that, a political action committee called the Stop Chris
Christie PAC, they just got themselves a stern letter from the FEC telling
them they`re going to have to change their name because the name of the
candidate Chris Christie is right there in the name of their PAC.

Upon receiving that FEC letter complaining about their name, we`ve
now learned the Stop Chris Christie PAC instead decided they would just
shut themselves down. They would cease operations.

And so, if you are New Jersey governor and presidential candidate
Chris Christie, you would think that would be good news, right? If you
were a person named Chris Christie and there`s a political action group
called Stop Chris Christie, that PAC going away should be a good thing.

Except in this case, it`s maybe not, because the Stop Chris Christie
PAC wrote back explaining why exactly they were shutting themselves down.
And their explanation to the FEC is that they are shutting themselves down
because Chris Christie is not worth trying to stop anymore, because Chris
Christie is stopped. He is no longer going as a presidential candidate.

This is from their letter to the FEC, quote, "Our decision to cease
and desist as a PAC is not due to your letter, but it`s instead based on
recent polling, and the miserable candidate in question, Chris Christie.
Our committee believes that Mr. Christie has already performed the service
of stopping his campaign without our aid, even if not by the letter of the
lawful. Therefore, we intend to stop the Stop Chris Christie PAC within
the next 30 days."

The Stop Chris Christie PAC was founded by right wing activists who
believe that Chris Christie is insufficiently conservative, and he should
therefore not win the Republican nomination. That group has now announced
that they are going out of business because they believe there is no risk
of Chris Christie ever winning the Republican nomination for president.

And they are right. At least with the polling, they are right. That
Chris Christie`s polling right now is truly terrible.

Chris Christie, of course, is basically moved to New Hampshire. He
is staking his entire campaign on what he wants to be a strong showing in
New Hampshire. Right now, he is polling in ninth place in New Hampshire
with only 4 percent of the vote. That is his best showing anywhere,
anywhere in the country.

In South Carolina, he is at 12th place, polling at 2 percent. In
Florida and Ohio, he is in 12th place, polling at 1 percent. In
Pennsylvania, he is polling at 2 percent which sounds awesome for him.
That still puts him in 12th place.

Chris Christie is just dead in the water. Weirdly though, he might
still make the stage for the second Republican debate. Even though he is
polling at 12th place in early starts and swing states all around the
country, even though his national polling average is somewhere around 3
percent right now, which not only puts him outside the top ten. It puts
him like at just barely half the support that somebody like Carly Fiorina
is getting. Even though Chris Christie is totally tanking, CNN has set the
criteria for whose going to be allowed into the second Republican
presidential debate and their criteria apparently will still consider Chris
Christie to be a top ten candidate, even though right now he clearly is
not.

The criteria will also exclude from the debate, apparently, a
candidate like Carly Fiorina who is handily beating Chris Christie all over
the country right now. It`s weird. And you know what? CNN does not have
to do it this way. CNN, you don`t have to do it this way.

This formatic (ph) trick where they`re using where ten candidates are
allowed into the debate and the other candidates have to do something else
and separate, that`s a whole new idea. That is something that has never
been done before in major party presidential debating. FOX News did it for
the first time this year, for the first Republican debate, and it was an
embarrassment and it was a huge distraction on lots of different levels.

FOX was the first to ever do it that way. CNN does not have to make
that same mistake. It is not like that`s standard operating procedure and
we`ve always done it like this. FOX News did an experiment and that
failed. Now CNN is going to do the same thing?

I mean, CNN could put all the candidates on stage at once or if
that`s too many podiums, they could randomly assign the candidates to two
different groups that they did want to have two different debates. You
know, just show them both in prime time. It`s doable.

There`s lots of ways around this mess, but apparently CNN is still
planning on going ahead with this bad new kids table format, which is very
upsetting obviously to candidates like Carly Fiorina, who are really going
to be hurt the worse by CNN`s decision.

But all of the candidates should have some level of concern about
this, because this really is -- this isn`t hyperbole -- this is really
media outlet deciding who is allowed to compete for the Republican
nomination and who is not. And that is obviously bad for some candidates.
I think it is bad for the Republican Party as a whole. It`s certainly bad
for the small d democratic process.

Honestly, ultimately, I think it`s really bad for the press.
Politicians love to blame the press for their own troubles, right? They
love to fight with the press to make themselves look tough. Politicians
and candidates love to attack the press and denigrate the press and
encourage cynicism about the press and disrespect for the press by claiming
that the press is somehow rigging the game -- somehow rigging things
against these noble politicians.

Because politicians are already making that case, the press should
not go out of their way to help politicians make case by actually rigging
the game. I mean, doing what CNN is doing, it makes it too easy for
candidates and politicians and presidents to wage these fights against the
press that they really want to wage any way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I`ve never heard such outrageous,
vicious, distorted reporting in 27 years of public life. I`m not blaming
anybody for that. But when people are pounded night after night, with that
kind of frantic, hysterical reporting, it naturally shakes their
confidence.

ROBERT PIERPOINT, CBS: Mr. President, you`ve that lambasted the
television networks pretty well. Could I ask you? At the risk of
reopening an obvious wound, you`ve said after you put on a lot of heat,
that you don`t blame anyone. I find that a little puzzling. What is it
about you and the television coverage that has so aroused your anger?

NIXON: Don`t get impression that you`ve roused my anger.

PIERPOINT: I`m afraid, sir, that I have that impression.

NIXON: One can only be angry with those he respects.

REPORTER: Mr. President --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Richard Nixon, October 1973. That was the press conference
he held right after the Saturday night massacre. Nixon had just fired the
special prosecutor on Watergate. He told the attorney general to fire the
guy. The attorney general said no and resigned in protest.

Then, the deputy attorney general, he told him to fire the guy, the
deputy attorney general said no and resigned in protest. Then, he told the
solicitor general to fire the guy and that solicitor general said, sure,
happy to, boss. That guy incidentally was Robert Bork who Ronald Reagan
later nominated to the Supreme Court as a thank you present for his
behavior in the Saturday night massacre. Joe Biden and Ted Kennedy and
other Democrats in the Senate put a stop to that to Robert Bork getting on
to the Supreme Court.

But in the midst of all that skullduggery, and those darkest days of
Watergate, in the middle of that just incredible drama, who the prison
decided to shoot at was the press -- a tried and true tactic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIXON: Let me say, too, I didn`t want to leave an impression with my
good friend from CBS over here that I don`t respect the reporters. What I
was simply saying was this, that when a commentator takes a bit of news and
then with knowledge of what the facts are, distorts it, viciously, I have
no respect for that individual.

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: Dan Rather with CBS News.

Mr. President, are you running for something?

(APPLAUSE)

RATHER: No, sir, Mr. President, are you? Mr. President, Mr.
President, I believe --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: 1974. President Nixon trying to make sport of CBS reporter
Dan Rather. Dan Rather giving it right back to him.

Richard Nixon was not running for anything at that time except his
political life. Less than six after that exchange, Richard Nixon was gone.
He had to resign the presidency.

Presidents and candidates fighting with the press is as old as
presidents and candidates and the press. That is why we need a First
Amendment, because government officials so often so badly want to throttle
us.

Politically though, fighting with the press, blaming the press,
making a spectacle out of hating the press, politically, it is usually a
good political tactic. Usually, it works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Many in the Pentagon feel you`ve left the chairman of
Joint Chiefs of Staff out to dry. Could you comment?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`ve got to give you
credit, Major, for how you craft those questions. The notion that I am
content, as I celebrate with American citizens languishing in Iranian jails
-- Major, that`s nonsense. And you should know better. I`ve met with the
families of some of those folks. Nobody is content.

JOHN KING, CNN: She said that you came to her in 1999 at a time when
you were having an affair. She said you asked her to be in an open
marriage. Would you like to take time respond to that?

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. But I will.

I think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news
media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract decent
people to run for public office, and I am appalled that you would begin a
presidential debate on a topic like that.

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: And that is how Newt Gingrich for a while, four years ago,
became a front running candidate for the Republican nomination. It was
after that debate in which he got the biggest cheers of any candidate in
any subject on any debate that whole year when he jumped all over the
press. Usually plays great.

But this year, I`m not sure it does. Not at least the way it is
happening this year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION: Mr. Trump, I have a question about
immigration. Your immigration plan --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK, who`s next? Please?

RAMOS: Mr. Trump, I have a question.

TRUMP: Excuse me. Sit down. You weren`t called. Sit down.

Sit down.

Go ahead.

RAMOS: No, no, Mr. Trump. I`m an immigrant, a citizen. Sir, I have
the right to ask a question.

TRUMP: No, you don`t. You haven`t been called.

RAMOS: I have, I have the right to ask a question.

TRUMP: Go back to Univision.

Go ahead. Go ahead.

RAMOS: This is the question: You cannot deport 11 million, Mr.
Trump. You cannot deport 11 million people. You cannot build a 1,900 mile
wall. You cannot deny citizenship to children in this country.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Sit down, please. You weren`t called.

RAMOS: Those ideas. I`m a reporter and I have -- don`t touch me,
sir. Don`t touch me, sir.

TRUMP: Go

RAMOS: I have the right to ask questions. I have the right to ask a
question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, if you`re in order.

RAMOS: I have the right to request ask a question.

TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. Hi, Jeff. Yes.

REPORTER: Roger Ailes says you need to apologize --

MATT LAUER, CBS NEWS: So this confrontation last night, Jorge Ramos
has been an outspoken critic of your immigration policy. Do feuds like
this, Donald, work for you? Do you think this helps you with your
supporters?

TRUMP: Well, I don`t know. Obviously, I have very big support
because I`m leading in every poll by double digits. And, you know, there
is a movement going on. There`s a whole silent majority thing happening
and it is very impressive to see.

I will tell you, he was totally out of line last night. I was asking
and being asked a question from another reporter. I would have gotten to
him very quickly. And he stood up and started ranting and raving like a
madman, and frankly, he was out of line. And most people, most reports
said I handled it very well. He was totally out of line.

REPORTER: Do you think it matters how FOX News covers you?

TRUMP: I don`t know, look. I have a lot of respect for Roger.
We`ll see. I mean, you know, maybe, maybe not. I really don`t know.

Look, I think they cover me terribly. FOX News, I think they cover
me terribly and I`m winning by double digits on every poll. So, I don`t
know, maybe it matters. Maybe it doesn`t. I don`t think I get good
treatment from FOX. They certainly cover me a lot.

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: Well, I`m being covered by everybody.

REPORTER: -- influence how you`re doing in polls?

TRUMP: I don`t know. I don`t think so. I think they give me very
bad treatment. I think FOX treats me terribly.

LAUER: You have said, Donald, when people treat me unfairly, I don`t
let them forget me. That leads me to Megyn Kelly. We all know what
happened after the debate. You thought she was unfair in your questioning
to you.

And then, 19 days later, she comes back from vacation on Monday and
it seemed like in an unprovoked attack you went after her, questioning her
appearance, her performance and then retweeting a very unflattering comment
about her that called her a bimbo.

Why have you let Megyn Kelly get so far under your skin?

TRUMP: Well, I haven`t. I mean, you tweet a few tweets, or retweets
in this case. That`s not getting under your skin.

I personally am not a fan. I don`t think she does a good job. I
don`t think she is a very good professional and I think the show is better
without her. That`s up to them and they can do whatever they want. I
respect Roger Ailes. He can do whatever he wants. I don`t care.

LAUER: It starts to sound a little bit, and take this in the right
way, like you`re a guy with a school yard crush. When we were in
elementary school and junior high school, you know, guys often say the
meanest things about the girls they like the most.

TRUMP: Trust me, Matt, there is no crush, that I can tell you. And
as far as I was concerned, during the debate, she asked me questions that
were totally inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Presidents and politicians of all stripes and candidates,
they`ve always made hay out of attacking the press, always. I mean, just
ask Dan Rather, right?

But with the balkanized press that we`ve got now, is that still a
good idea politically? Does it still play? And not insubstantially, is it
bad for the country? Does it hurt the free press for politicians to put a
target on the free press?

Ask Dan rather. Seriously, ask Dan rather. Let`s. He`s here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RATHER: Take your hands off me. Unless you intend to arrest me,
don`t push me. Don`t push me. Take your hands off me unless you intend to
arrest me. Wait a minute. As you can see --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what`s going on. These are security
people, apparently, around Dan. Obviously getting rough.

RATHER: We got finally pushed out of way. This is the kind of thing
going on outside the hall. This is the first time we`ve had it inside the
hall.

I`m sorry to be out of breath but somebody belted me in the stomach
doing that. What happened is a Georgia delegate, at least he had a Georgia
delegate sign on, is being hauled out of hall. We tried to talk to him to
see why, who he was and what the situation was. And at that instant, the
security people, as you can see, put me on the deck. I didn`t do very
well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: And that is not exactly the same thing as what happened to
Jorge Ramos. The Univision anchor yesterday in his confrontation with
Donald Trump, but it did really make me want to ask Dan Rather how he felt
about the presidential this year and how they are taking aim at the press,
if not actually literally punching them in the stomach like it`s 1968.

Joining us now for the interview is legendary network news anchor,
now the host to AXS TV`s "The Big Interview", Dan, it`s great to see you.
Thank you for being here.

RATHER: Thank you very much for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: Did you really get socked right in the gut in the middle of
your live interview that day?

RATHER: I did. They were trying to escort a delegate out of the
hall. They were so determine to keep strict discipline at the convention.
And that is historic. Why are they taking this man out of hall, this
security people?

So I sought to find out from him. And the security people didn`t
want that. And I kept pressing. Not too aggressively but we might argue
about that. And so, they took me out, hit me in the solar plexus with a
very good short hard punch.

MADDOW: Wow. It is a constant, if not constant, always there
somewhere lurking -- this idea that there is political hey to be made from
pursuing the press as a target. Is the political calculation about that
any different now when politicians attack press? As the press has changed
over the years, is the sort of risk-benefit calculation about attacking the
president, has that changed too?

RATHER: You know, I don`t think it has. Example A, most recent
example was the Trump news conference with Jorge Ramos, that I think --
this is old page from the political playbook. Attack the press and you`re
going to get a certain segment of the population that really likes that.
So, I`d say to answer your question is no, nothing has changed in that
regard.

MADDOW: I think the Republican candidates are banking on being able
to win the nomination without any Latino voters at all, the way they`re
campaigning. But could Donald Trump, or could any of these candidates win
the Republican nomination while also being at war with the FOX News Channel
specifically? Never really had anything like the FOX News Channel in a
previous era in history. Are they -- it seems to me, that I believe there
can`t be a nominee without FOX`s support.

RATHER: I tend to agree with that. However, Trump is raising that
question anew. Now, having said that, and keeping in mind that reporters
such as ourselves get paid not to be cynical, never cynical, but to be
skeptical. I`m a little suspicious, without very much info, a little
suspicious of this battle between Trump and FOX.

What we do know is that Trump is really smart as he said when he
started the run, don`t underestimate him. And Roger Ailes, whether you
agree with his politics or not, another smart guy. Whether they`ve gotten
together and planned this out or not, it works to their mutual benefit
right now.

FOX can argue, listen, we don`t give sweetheart deals over the
Republican candidate and Trump can say, I tell you I`m independent. When I
say I`m independent, I`m really independent, because look at even FOX.

In answer to your question, I do think that someone could get
nominated without FOX`s support. But I don`t think they`ll have to. I
think as the race narrows down, it will come clear what FOX wants.
Basically, and I don`t think Roger Ailes is any apology for this, or he
need to have one, he wants a Republican president.

But Trump has changed the dimension. He`s running an historical line
with Huey Long from Louisiana during the 1930s, who in fiction was
immortalized by the great Robert Penn Warren novel --

MADDOW: My favorite book of all time.

RATHER: Huey Long runs through, Strom Thurmond, Barry Goldwater --
Goldwater was a different personality than Trump. But people tend to
forget that the 1960 Republican convention, Goldwater was considered an
outlier, sort of you will a pre-Trump Trump. But by 1964, he got the
nomination and laid the foundation for what was to become Reagan years.

And also, I think Trump is in line with George Wallace. Again,
people tend to forget George Wallace ran in 1968, tried to run again in
1972.

MADDOW: Segregationist.

RATHER: Same thing.

And in that line I would put Ross Perot. I`m not equating Perot with
Trump but Perot was a businessman. His basic message was, I`m a
businessman. I know how to run the country and how to give you straight
talk.

And this, Trump is in that line. But now in the second decade of the
21st century, with so much coverage, so many channels, Trump is just, he is
taking the field by storm. The rest of the candidates, the rest of the
candidates were sort of like, I don`t know, bird dogs in the dock blind.
They are restless. They don`t know what to do.

And Trump dominates right now, and I`ll say it again as I have
before, I wouldn`t underestimate. He is beginning to say to myself, you
know what? I think I might be able to win this thing.

MADDOW: Right.

RATHER: And that change the dimension for himself.

MADDOW: And him taking all the coverage must feel like a disaster to
all the other candidates. On the other hand, it is early yet. Him taking
all the coverage means they can make their mistakes without anybody
noticing right now and get better at doing --

RATHER: That is a good point. You notice he attacks Jeb Bush more
than any other candidate, because he thinks Jeb Bush has the staying power.
Now, Jeb Bush`s campaign looks like something where the wheels are off and
the axle is dragging. He doesn`t look very good, but he`s playing the long
game and Trump knows it.

MADDOW: That`s right.

Dan Rather, host of AXS TV`s the big interview and just a real honor
to have you here every time you`re here, sir. Thank you for being here.

RATHER: Thank you very much, Rachel.

MADDOW: I`m still mad a that person who punched you, even though I
wasn`t born.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: We`ll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: This is Kimberly McBroom. Kimberly McBroom is one of the
news anchors on a local TV station in Roanoke, Virginia, called WDBJ.

Last winter, Kimberly McBroom`s father died suddenly. He had a heart
attack. When that tragedy struck her family, one of the very first people
to show up at her house with condolences and food and a shoulder to cry on
was one of her colleagues from WDBJ, a young reporter at that station named
Alison Parker. They were that kind of close as friends, right? First one
there after your dad dies, close.

And early this morning when Alison Parker was shot and killed, as she
was reporting a story live on the air at WDBJ, it was her friend Kimberly
McBroom who was in the anchor chair back at the station, watching, shocked,
live, trying to understand what she just saw. What had just happened to a
friend.

I`ll tell you, we are not going to show anything graphic here. We do
not need to broadcast murder, especially one that the murderer wanted to be
broadcast. But this was the live interview that Alison Parker was doing
when she was shot and killed this morning.

And because it was a live shot, her dear friend and colleague who was
anchoring this morning`s broadcast from the studio, and everybody else
watching the newscast at home, everybody saw the crime as it happened.
Confused and stunned and fearing the worst and not understanding.

Alison Parker, 24 years old when she was killed today. Her cameraman
Adam Ward was also killed. He was 27 years old. He`d just gotten engaged.
He was planning his wedding to another employee at WDBJ.

A third victim of the shooting today was the woman who`s being
interviewed on the air. Her name is Vicki Gardner. She is a local
official with the Chamber of Commerce. She has survived. She`s gone
through surgery today. She is expected to recover from her injuries.

We now know that the gunman was a former employee at that news
station. It`s clear he was intent on having his motives for the shooting
not only known but discussed publicly. It is clear that he was intent on
carrying out this attack in a way that made it as made for TV as possible.
He not only committed the murder on live television, he also filmed the
attack himself and posted the resulting video on Facebook.

We will not be showing any of that here tonight. I don`t want him to
help him do what he wanted to do.

This terrible story was the national news story today, understandably
for all the obvious reasons. It is also the national news story that that
local used in station WDBJ had to cover while being at the center of it.
They have had to first report the news here and then grieve publicly, all
in real-time, all on live television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TV ANCHOR: We are following breaking news this morning out of
Franklin County, news that has affected our WDBJ 7 family very deeply. Our
WDBJ 7 morning crew was live this morning at Smith Mountain Lake when shots
were fired at 6:45.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kim, it is my very, very sad duty to report that
we have determined through the help of the police and you were on employees
that Alison and Adam died this morning shortly after 6:45 when the shots
rang out.

JEAN JADHON, WDBJ EVENING ANCHOR: The gunman, state police, the
suspected gunman, the Virginia state police caught up with on Interstate 66
in Fauquier County, a former employee who was let go two years ago whose
legal name is Vester Flanigan, 41 years old. This is the scene in
Interstate 66, in Fauquier County near mile marker 17 where Virginia state
police apparently close in on his rental car.

TV ANCHOR: We realize we cover stories of people being shot all the
time. And so, now, we realize first hand what so many of you have sadly
gone through, that when it is someone you know and someone you love.

JEFF MARKS, WDBJ7 GENERAL MANAGER: All day people have been teary.
They`ve been hugging and they`ve been doing their job as journalists. And
somebody said, how can you reconcile all of that? And I said, well, you
can`t. It`s just, you have to deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Just a horrible tragedy today in Virginia. And the people
closest to it, the people caught in the middle, continue to do their jobs
in reporting it even as it happened to them, to their own colleagues.
Local journalism is always necessary. Some days, it is also heroic. WDBJ
in Roanoke, Virginia, today.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: When presidential candidates act out racist caricatures live
on stage in front of an audience, it`s nice to have someone to talk to
about what the world is coming to, that that`s what the presidential race
is like this year, but also what happened to the guy who just did that live
and on tape.

Luckily, we`ve got smart guy Frank Rich here tonight. That`s next,
along with the aforementioned tape. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: In the 2008 election, Barack Obama and Joe Biden beats John
McCain and Sarah Palin by a lot. They beat them by almost 200 electoral
votes. In the popular vote they beat them by more than 7 points, which is
a lot. But among certain demographic groups, the margin was much, much
bigger than that. Everybody knows that African-Americans and women and
young people supported Obama and Biden over McCain and Palin in 2008 by big
numbers.

But look at the numbers also among Asian-Americans. Obama beat
McCain by 7 points nationally overall, but he beat McCain among Asian-
Americans, not by 7 points but by 27 points. Not he got 27 percent of the
Asian vote. No, a 27-point spread between Obama and McCain among Asian
voters.

Four years later, when it was Obama versus Mitt Romney, it was even a
bigger margin, total wipeout. Barack Obama beat Mitt Romney among Asian-
American voters by 47 points. Obama, 73, Mitt Romney, 26. Just brutal.

And with a history like that from the last two presidential
elections, we can only speculate on how the Asian-American vote is going to
go in this next election, particularly if the current prohibitive front-
runner for the nomination actually ends up becoming the Republican nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I mean, you know, negotiating with Japan, negotiating with
China. When these people walk in the room, they don`t say hello, how is
the weather? It is so beautiful? How are the Yankees doing? Oh they`re
doing wonderful, great. They say, "We want deal".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: We want -- it`s nice the way he opens his eyes really wide
when he says that, right, and does the crazy monster hands. We want deal -
- says Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump.

You can see that clip online today all over the place under headlines
like this. Trump impersonates Asian negotiators.

That happened last night in Dubuque, Iowa, that Mr. Trump`s rally in
Dubuque. That was the rally immediately after his contentious press
conference where he told the most recognizable Latino reporter in the
nation that he should go back to Univision, and then his security grabbed
Jorge Ramos and forced him out of the room.

Last night when we reported that had just happened to Jorge Ramos, I
said at the time as we were reporting it that we were showing that you
footage but we didn`t know what happened to Mr. Ramos once he had been
forced out of that room. We now do know some of that, because Mr. Ramos`
network posted this short exchange, this 15-second exchange which
apparently happened just outside the room where Mr. Trump was speaking to
those reporters and from which Mr. Ramos got thrown out by security.

One of the Mr. Trump`s supporters apparently followed Jorge Ramos out
of the room and then this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP SUPPORTER: You were very rude. It`s not about you. Get out
of my country. Get out. This is not about you.

RAMOS: I`m a U.S. citizen, too.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: Whatever. No, Univision? No. It`s not about you.

RAMOS: It`s not about you. It`s about the United States.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: No, it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Get out of my country, he says to the U.S. citizen.

Gallup this week posted this new polling data on Latino voters
nationwide, their preferences, their perceptions on the various republicans
candidates for president. As you can see up top, the Republican who does
best among Latino voters among all the Republican candidates, Jeb Bush.

But even, Jeb Bush doesn`t do all that well. This is mostly bad news
for the Republican presidential field in terms of how Latino voters feel
about them.

But the worst news for the Republican Party among Latino voters is
that this, oh, is the approval rating for their presidential front-runner.
That line there on the bottom, that`s the guy who`s leading the pack of
Republican candidates for president by a mile. He is so wildly detested by
Latino voters that he basically requires to put a new sheet of payment on
the left side of the piece of paper so you can see how far that axis
actually goes. So, you can capture minus 51 percent approval rating.

But he is their front-runner by a lot. And that is the sort of thing
that makes the Republican establishment freak out that Donald Trump is
their front-runner, not just because they don`t want people to imagine his
face when they imagine the party, because with him as the party standard
bearer, I mean, this is how the party is going to fare, not just in the
presidential race, but all up and down the Republican ticket, with the
fastest growing demographic group in the country.

I mean, that minus 51 there, that is the sort of polling data that
makes the Republican establishment really sure that they need somebody like
Jeb Bush to be their frontrunner instead of somebody like Donald Trump.

For his part, Jeb Bush seems to be focused on making himself not only
increasingly offensive to Latino voters, he is going out of his way to see
if he can upset Asian-Americans as well. This is how Jeb Bush answered the
question this week about his recent decision to start using the phrase
"anchor babies", to describe kids born in the U.S. to immigrant parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you worry that using the term "anchor babies" could
affect your ability to win the Hispanic vote?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As I said in Spanish, my back
ground, my life, the fact that I am immersed in the immigrant experience,
this is ludicrous for the Clinton campaign and others to suggest that
somehow I`m using a derogatory term. What I was talking about was the
specific case of fraud being committed where there`s organized efforts, and
frankly it is more related to Asian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Oh, Asian anchor babies is what he meant, which he is happy
to explain in Spanish.

After the 2012 presidential race which the Republicans thought they
would win, the main do not do this again lesson that the Republican Party
told itself that they needed to learn from that race, was to not alienate
Latino voters. To find some way to stop top tier Republican politicians
from talking about Latinos in ways that offended Latinos.

I mean, picking fluent in Spanish Jeb Bush who is married to a
Mexican-American, who is the father of Hispanic children, right, picking
Jeb Bush was supposed to give the Republican Party not only an instant
frontrunner named Bush, it was also supposed to solve their constantly
offending the Latinos problem. That was the idea. But now, instead,
they`ve got Donald Trump as the party`s front-runner and Jeb Bush duking it
out with him on a daily basis over the relative racial merits of various
different types of anchor babies.

And whether or not Republicans this year can worsen their standing
with Asian-Americans, that`s a question we didn`t even know would be on
deck, right? But can Republicans worsen their standings with Asian-
Americans this year? I mean, historically speaking, they`re already on
track to lose them somewhere in the vicinity of 20, 30, 40, 50 point
points. Can I hear 60 points?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MADDOW: Behold, the latest racist caricature from the race from the
Republican nomination for president of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I mean, you know, negotiating with Japan, negotiating with
China. When these people walk in the room, they don`t say, oh, hello.
How`s the weather it`s so beautiful outside. Is it lovely? How are the
Yankees doing? Oh, they are doing wonderful, great. They say, "We want
deal."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Donald Trump, Republican presidential front runner.

And the Republicans thought offending Latinos was going to be their
problem again this year.

Joining us now is Frank Rich, "New York Magazine" writer-at-large.

Mr. Rich, it is nice to see you. Thanks for being here.

FRANK RICH, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Nice to see you.

MADDOW: I didn`t see this coming.

RICH: It`s amazing. I thought this had been retired with Mickey
Rooney in "Breakfast at Tiffany`s." Remember him doing that still
notorious Asian impersonation.

I feel kind of -- as a Jew I feel left out. I`m waiting for him to
do a Jewish mother joke or whatever he`s going to do that`s going to offend
somebody.

MADDOW: Well, the question -- I mean, at this point, the question is
not whether he will do that, obviously, he will. The question is whether
it will play in Dubuque, right? Whether it will help him, as opposed to
offending people, right? Offending people used to mean you hurt your
chances.

Offending people now seems to redound to his benefit. The more
people get upset with him the more, it helps him. It is especially a troll
candidacy.

RICH: Yes.

MADDOW: So, how does that end?

RICH: Well, it ends I guess with the Republican Party trying to
figure out a way to make him go away. Clearly, they are completely
impotent and as you showed, people like Jeb Bush was supposed to be the
sober more centrist candidate are falling in to trap and filing on about
Asians, Hispanics and everything else.

So, they have a real, real problem. I don`t think he is going away
and it`s helping him. One thing we have to remember is, his opponents are
not profiles of courage. It wasn`t that long ago before Trump got into the
race after the massacre in Charleston, it took a long weekend, at least for
the Republican presidential candidates to come out against the Confederate
flag.

MADDOW: Right.

RICH: And hence come against slavery.

So, they`re not -- the only ones standing up to him are Lindsey
Graham, who Trump points out have no standing in the polls. They are
scared of him.

MADDOW: And come to think of it, Bobby Jindal is now fighting
efforts to take down Confederate memorials in New Orleans, which will be
the way his candidacy comes back.

You know, Dan Rather was here earlier.

RICH: Right.

MADDOW: One of the things we were talking about is FOX News and
Donald Trump fighting. Dan raised the prospect that it`s kind of like a
wrestling heel, scripted fight that it is not a real fight and it`s
supposed to make them look better with people who they most care about
looking good for.

Do -- what do you make about how the conservative media is
functioning in the race right now?

RICH: You know, I feel that Trump has hit in to something that`s
beyond FOX. People forget that there`s a whole conservative media out
there to the right of FOX and has a huge following in the base Republican
Party. The radio host Mark Lemon has a number one "New York Times"
bestseller in the country right now.

That is sort of off the radar of people like us, and I think it is
very much on Ailes` radar and I think he has backed down to Trump. I think
he knows there`s that sort of take back America, Sarah Palin, Levin,
Michael Savage back in the day, that group that is a threat to FOX as well
as the Republican Party.

MADDOW: See, that`s very interesting because when -- so there was
this fight at the debate where Mr. Trump felt he wasn`t well-treated and he
said some offensive things about one of the FOX News hosts and there was a
fight between Donald Trump and FOX News about that. They supposedly came
to some sort of truce and agreement.

There was never an apology from Mr. Trump for any of that. He was
sort of welcomed back in the fold and nothing was said about that. Now
that started up again.

But you are suggesting that part of the fight may not just be
performing for the country. It might be about dragging FOX further to the
right --

RICH: Yes.

MADDOW: -- making them more like the media that`s critical of them
for being too liberal.

RICH: Because that`s -- look, that`s Laura Ingraham, that`s the
people who are, Ann Coulter, who are standing up for Trump. We forget,
that`s on the right flank -- as conservatives, we think FOX News is not the
most conservative force in the base of the Republican Party. So, Ailes has
his own back to watch with, not just Trump.

MADDOW: Amazing. This is such a weird world.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: We`re worried about Roger Ailes` right flank. So weird.

Frank Rich, "New York Magazine" writer at large, you are a very smart
man. Thank you for being here.

RICH: Thanks for having me.

MADDOW: We`ll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What is the purpose of the march?

JOHN LEWIS: We are marching today to dramatize to the nation, to
dramatize to the world, hundreds of thousands of Negro citizens of Alabama,
but particularly here, in the Blight area (ph), deny the right to vote. We
intend to march to Montgomery to present same grievance to Governor George
C. Wallace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: Young John Lewis, now Congressman Lewis, describing to a
reporter why those marchers were there in 1965, what they were trying to
achieve with their march from Selma to Montgomery.

One of those marchers was Amelia Boynton. This is her a couple of
months before that march in Montgomery trying to register to vote, being
hauled off by the collar by a county sheriff named Jim Clark. Amelia
Boynton was one of the organizers of the Selma march. She was a little
older than those young whippersnappers like John Lewis. But she helped
lead that march in Selma in March 1965 that ended up being called Bloody
Sunday.

The footage from that day, Amelia Boynton, that`s her in the white
raincoat being trampled. She was seriously injured that day when police
attacked the bridge. She was beaten senseless that day. She was left
unconscious on the ground, but she lived -- she lived to tell the tale.

This spring, on the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday, she was back
at the bridge with President Obama, side by side, hand in hand. She was
her in the wheelchair there day when police attacked the bridge.

When the great Amelia Boynton died today and the White House released
a statement praising her quiet heroism. She died today at the age of 104.
She was at the White House when President Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting
Rights Act in 1965, something that may have never happened without her.

Amelia Boynton Robinson was already 54 years old when she helped
organize the Selma march, in which she almost lost her life. She was 104
years old today when she passed. Gone today, a hard life well-lived.

That does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again tomorrow.

Now, it`s time for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL."

Good evening, Lawrence.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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