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PoliticsNation, Wednesday, Septembr 2nd, 2015

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Date: September 2, 2015
Guest: Jesse Jackson, Michael Eric Dyson, Nicholas Burns, Ed Rendell, Jess
McIntosh; Susan Del Percio; Dana Milbank

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Right now on "Politics Nation," Donald Trump
is telling Jeb Bush what language he should speak. Seriously!

Also, the Cheney fear-mongering hits a new low as President Obama scores a
big victory on Iran.

New buzz about vice president Biden and his plan for late-night TV.

And Reverend Jesse Jackson weighs in on the new Democratic Party and Donald

Welcome to "Politics Nation."

We begin with the escalating fight between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. This
week, Bush told reporters in Spanish, that Trump isn`t a real conservative.
Today Trump fired back, saying quote "I like Jeb. He is a nice man, but he
should really set the example by speaking English while in the United

Yes, Donald Trump is now attacking Jeb Bush for speaking Spanish. That`s
going to get ugly. But Trump also pushed back on attacks he`s too cozy
with Democrats like Hillary Clinton.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I really was very friendly with
all politicians. If I`m in New York, I was friendly with politicians
throughout the United States. That was my obligation, that was my job to
do as what they turned me a world class businessman, and that`s what I was.
I had to get along with everybody. So I got along with the Clintons. I
got along with everybody and it was important to do so.


SHARPTON: But labeling Trump a Democrat in disguise might be the only
thing that will take him down. And Jeb Bush doesn`t seem likely to stop
saying it in any language.


JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You look at his record of what he
believes, he supports Democrats. You know, while I was campaigning for
Republicans in this state and all across the country, conservative with all
minded candidates, her was supporting Hillary Clinton. And thinks Hillary
Clinton would be a good negotiator as it relates to dealing with Iran. I
mean this is not a guy who is a conservative.


SHARPTON: Jeb Bush and the rest of the GOP elites are terrified of Trump.
They`ll do anything to tear him down. They`ll even say he`s best friends
with me.

Here`s a story on Trump in the conservative "National Review." The
headline, his pal Al. Look, they even ran an old photo of us together.
But I`ll do one better, here`s a picture of Trump with me at an event for
my civil rights group, the National Action Network, in 2006. Its proof
I`ll argue with anybody if they`ll support the right cause. Of course, I
don`t mind reaching across the aisle. I`m a forgiving kind of guy.

But GOP elites are hoping to hurt Trump by linking him to public enemy
number one on the right, Al Sharpton.

Joining me now, Susan Del Percio and of course Jess McIntosh.

How you doing, Susan?


SHARPTON: So, let me say this, it`s now that the Republicans are so afraid
of Republican elites that they`re now trying to make him best friends with
everybody, including me? I mean, I`ve done to dinner with Bill O`Reilly,
George Bush had me to the White House. We hardly agree on much. People
kind in certain areas of influence talk to each other.

DEL PERCIO: I`m here with you today.

SHARPTON: Yes. They`ll use this picture if you run for president.

But is this showing how they`re trying to just stretch anything to try to
stop Trump, and certainly I`m not apologist for Trump, but I mean, when I
look at this, I`m like, you guys are really getting shook up here.

DEL PERCIO: Well, what`s happened is, is that Trump came out and like any
businessman, he decided to take down his competition and he`s gone after
Bush. And he`s done it for a long enough time that Bush now has to push
back. That`s the beginning and end of it for his donors and his
supporters. He needs to show that he has the chops. It`s not what I think
he wants to without the campaign he wants to run, but he`s got to push back
some and by showing and by defining Trump, especially via the television
ads, is a big difference than Trump just calling into a show. That`s for

SHARPTON: Now what really got me, Jess, is this whole "speak English"
thing. Now, I`ve said that Trump has used dog whistles. I`ve said that
what Trump has said on many things is despicable. I think this is very
ugly. I mean, explain to me how you feel about this whole thing like he
should speak only English in this country.

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY`S LIST: I think dog whistle is a really charitable
description for what Trump does vis-a-vis Mexican immigrants.


MCINTOSH: I think - I mean, this is a guy who saw his first rise in the
polls by saying that Mexicans who came across the border were rapists and
criminals, so suggesting that we ought to speak English probably isn`t
going to be a blip for him like it ought to be. I think he has made his
bed with a very dark segment of -- and I`m really hopeful that it`s a small
segment of the electorate that is incredibly nativist and very white
nationalist, and they like this kind of rhetoric, and they want to hear
this kind of thing from him. And he seems really willing to play into

So I think that the "speak English" jib at Jeb is really just about
catering to that own base and kind of trolling Jeb a little bit because
there`s not much Jeb can do about it.

SHARPTON: And it offends a lot more people, Susan, than just Mexicans who
he`s sends most of his barbs at and even more than just Latinos. A lot of
people are offended by that kind of statement.

DEL PERCIO: Absolutely. And here`s the funny part. He was doing the
interview with Spanish media. So it wasn`t like he was decided to do a
press conference, adlib in Spanish, he was meeting with the Spanish press.
Of course, you would do it if you`re fluent in a language, you would do
that, of course. So the attack is just nonsense. But unfortunately, it`s
the nonsense that Trump has been getting away with since day one. So is
this it? No, this won`t be the final thing that pushes them off. For any
other politician, it actually would be, but he gets away with it.

SHARPTON: Jess, you know, Trump`s also comparing himself with another man
who became more conservative over time, Ronald Reagan. He said today, the
quote, "after eight years of the presidency, people will say I`m a great
conservative. Far greater than Jeb Bush will ever have the ability to be."
Now, he`s not backing down at all. Is Jeb going to get more hurt in this
fight than Trump?

MCINTOSH: Yes. I mean, I think we`ve seen -- we have seen Jeb get hurt
every time he`s tussled with Trump. And we`ve seen Trump`s jabs really
land with him, especially this low energy thing, I think seems to really
get under his skin.

But I think it`s also important to remember that before the meteoric rise
of Trump, Jeb actually wasn`t doing all of that well. He was suggesting
that we phase out Medicare. He was saying that American workers just need
to put in a few more hours. Like this wasn`t a guy who was running a
stellar campaign. At the beginning of this year, we would get asked all
the time, who do you think the Republican nominee is? And the answer you
would always hear, I don`t know, I guess Jeb.

Like you look at the field and that`s the guy who kind of seems like the
best, and if not him, then who? Now we know who. But Jeb has never really
been a fantastic national candidate. And I think we`re seeing him being
bested by someone who is just a much better showman, for better or worse,
arguably for worse.

SHARPTON: You know, I think the astounding thing, Susan, is that a lot of
Republicans seem to like what Trump is saying. I think that`s what has
astonished a lot of us. For example, the Des Moines Register put out the
question, do you like what Trump is saying about rounding up 11 million
immigrants that are here illegally, 47 percent said yes, 73 percent of
Trump supporters said it was a good idea.


SHARPTON: I mean, it`s the most impractical and the most heinous idea I`ve
heard about immigration. Just round up 11 million people, I don`t know how
you`re going to do it. Forty seven percent said that yes, 73 percent of
his supporters, almost three-quarters said it`s a good idea. I mean, we`re
talking to a voting group here that we just don`t seem to be understanding.

DEL PERCIO: Well, first of all, that question was written for that
headline, exactly what you said. They wrote, do you favor rounding up,
their language, so you were basically given, what`s your position on
immigration. And we know that Republicans, you know, have really want to
take a strong stance in coming up with serious policies. Not every
American wants to round up, but when you`re only given that option, the way
the question was written, it was simply written to get a great headline and
you`re using it beautifully.

SHARPTON: Well, that`s how they answered. I`m using this because -- but
what does this say about the far right and their ability to dominate the
primary season?

MCINTOSH: I think we`re seeing a Republican electorate that has moved
incredibly far to the right. And I think the primary season is playing out
as the primary season is playing out. But when we get to the general,
America just doesn`t agree with him. They don`t -- America actually
supports a path way to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants that are
currently living in this country. They don`t want to round them up. And
they would be happy to say no, if a pollster asked them whether that was
the strategy that they favored. It`s not just on immigration. This
Republican electorate has moved so far to the right and Trump is just
carrying them even farther afield. I don`t know how they come back.

SHARPTON: Moving to the right also raises -- I have to raise this quickly,
Susan, about also the rise of Dr. Ben Carson, who is very interesting, who
is now tied with Trump in one of the Iowa polls. And here`s what Trump
says about that.


TRUMP: Well, I like Ben a lot. He`s a good guy. And you know, but he`s
been spending a tremendous amount of advertising money out in Iowa. And
the one poll where we have a tie and the other one I`m leading by quite a
bit in Iowa, but one of them came out and a little bit surprisingly there
was a tie and I think that`s great. But Ben is spending money in Iowa and
I`m not.


SHARPTON: But Susan, compared to other candidates, Carson really isn`t
spending a lot of money. In fact, when you look at the fact that he is way
down in spending in Iowa, $184,000, where others have spent -- Jindal has
spent $1.6 million. Is Trump a little nervous about Carson, because this
is totally wrong that he`s getting this because he`s spending a lot of

DEL PERCIO: Yes, I think he`s trying to find some kind of excuse other
than, he could be potential competition, because Trump will have to be
extremely careful taking on Ben Carson. Dr. Carson has a very high
favorable rating and people like him. They like his policies. In fact,
one would argue they like his policies more than they like Donald Trump`s.
And he has to be careful picking a fight with someone who is so well liked,
unlike Bush, who had about a 50/50 rating when this all started.

SHARPTON: Trump trumped by the doctor. That would be huge!

DEL PERCIO: Huge. Tremendous.

SHARPTON: Tremendous! Susan Del Percio and Jess McIntosh, thank you both
for being with me tonight.

MCINTOSH: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, Joe Biden fuels speculation of a possible
presidential run with a trip to the sunshine state.

Plus, it sounds like Scott Walker`s memory could be a bit hazy on what he`s
been doing for the past two decades.

And later, former vice president Dick Cheney criticizes President Obama`s
Iran deal, but he`s still standing behind the invasion of Iraq.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Worth going into Iraq in 2003, the original

was the right thing to do.



SHARPTON: There`s much more ahead, stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, Donald Trump is facing criticism for
refusing to name his favorite bible verse. In terms of offense, it`s hard
to be a fan of the bible when three out of the seven deadly sins helped him
get to where he is today.



SHARPTON: Breaking news in the case against the six Baltimore police
officers charged in connection with Freddie Gray`s death. The officers
charged will each have their own trial. Defense attorneys argue that
trying the officers together would not be fair. The officers do not all
face the same charges. Their lawyers say each officer had a different role
in Gray`s arrest. Gray died one week after his arrest in April.

Investigators say gray`s neck was injured during the van ride to the jail.
Baltimore saw several large protests after his death. Today a group
gathered outside the courthouse in Baltimore, asking for justice. Police
say they arrested one protester. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: It`s the million dollar question in the Democratic Party right
now. Will vice president Joe Biden jump into the 2016 race? Biden`s
schedule and a new speech, as well as a new poll, are adding fuel to the
fire. Just hours ago, he sure sounded like he was on the campaign trail at
a Miami college.


been the constant stream of immigration. Middle class in America means
you`re able to own your home, and not have to rent it. It means you can
send your kid to a park in the neighborhood and know they`ll come home
safely. It means that the school and the neighborhood is good enough, that
if your child does well, they can get to college, and if they make it, you
can get them there financially.


SHARPTON: A new ABC News/"Washington Post" poll says the same number of
people view Biden favorably as unfavorably, 46 percent. It may not sound
great until you look at the numbers for Hillary Clinton. Forty five
percent of people view her favorably, but 53 percent, not so much. So
numbers have some in the party nervous. And hoping Biden will run. In the
coming days, he will spend time in Florida, Georgia, and Pennsylvania. Two
of those are traditional swing states. And he`ll cap off his busy week
with Stephen Colbert on his new late night show. That alone is enough to
have the rumors swirling.

But then this happened. A Boston TV station asked Elizabeth Warren whether
she would consider a vice presidential nod. It says quote "pressed on
whether she would consider joining a democratic ticket, she said the party
isn`t even sure if all potential candidates have declared."

And right now, Warren is taking part in a political happy hour, with the
"Boston Globe." This is a live feed. She was just asked whether she
talked to Biden about running on a joint ticket. She simply answered,
quote, it was a long conversation. She did not elaborate on what that

Joining me now, Dana Milbank of "the Washington Post." Thank you for being

DANA MILBANK, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Good to see you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Good to see you, Dana.

Dana, this is an interesting answer from Senator Warren. What do you make
of it?

MILBANK: Well, if they`re having this happy hour conversation, I think
they need to pour stronger drinks so then can actually get her to say
something more concrete than this. You know, she`s been coy all along,
very clear that she`s not running for president, but also reluctant to get
in, get in on the Hillary bandwagon. So, you know, look. All along, I`ve
thought it unlikely -- desirable, but unlikely that Joe Biden would get
into the race. Certainly, he benefits from all the speculation and the
attention it`s giving him. He wants to be wanted to run. He`d like it to
happen by acclimation, but it doesn`t work that way. And when you actually
look at how a candidacy would go, it`s very difficult to see it, but it is
certainly a lot of fun for him to have the speculation going on. And it`s
not entirely bad for the Democrats.

SHARPTON: And the poll mentioned, it`s clear from that poll that people
like Joe Biden. In the speech today at the college, Joe Biden was being
Joe Biden. Watch.


BIDEN: I am known in every community college in America, and other places
as Dr. Jill Biden`s husband.

With your permission, may I take my coat off? By the way, it`s amazing how
good the school is, look at all the press you`ve attracted.

SHARPTON: Now, is that why people want him to run? He`s so likeable.

MILBANK: Well, I mean, he is seen as that kind of a likeable figure. You
know, "The Washington Post" poll is my favorite poll, but I wouldn`t put
too much credibility into that particular number of favorability because
he`s not in the race and Hillary is in the race getting pummeled every day.
And Joe Biden were in the race, getting pummeled every day, his numbers
will be different.

But the appeal of Biden is that he`s this ordinary every man. He has got
this blue collar appeal, he has some, you know, real sort of gritty
populous nature to him that Hillary Clinton really doesn`t. And you know,
let`s face it. The populism is really what is in demand now and that`s
behind both Bernie Sanders and behind Donald Trump. And Joe Biden could
harness some of that energy.

SHARPTON: You know, going back to your point, because Frank Bruni from
"The New York Times," he`s also not so convinced about a Biden run. He
wrote about how things would change if Biden launched a campaign. Here is
a quote from Bruni. "It`s the difference between a courtship in its dawn,
and a marriage in its dusk. One someone has really moved into the house
and is leaving dirty dishes in the sink, the electricity dims and
everything droops."

What do you think? Will the appeal of Biden fade if he actually jumps in
the race?

MILBANK: Well, certainly it would because then he would be taking shots
not just from Clinton, but from the Republicans and everybody else. That`s
not unique to Biden. You know, every president becomes more popular after
he`s out of office. So it`s when you`re not in the line of fire. Hillary
Clinton was a lot more popular before she got into the race.

But Biden entering the race, he`s very unlikely to win, but he could make
it a very interesting race, make it competitive for the Democrats.
Encourage others to get into the race. Hillary Clinton likely wins in any
event, but it makes it more interesting, and it makes her a sharper
candidate. So it`s something I think the Democrats should be desiring even
if it`s not likely to happen.

SHARPTON: Dana Milbank, thank you for your time tonight.

MILBANK: My pleasure.

SHARPTON: Ahead after a career in politics, Scott Walker says he`s not a
career politician. And he wins a spot in tonight`s gotcha.

Plus, Dick Cheney ramp us up the fear-mongering about President Obama`s
Iran deal and the threat of terror attacks.


CHENEY: I think there is another possibility of 9/11, I think next time it
may involve something far deadlier than airline tickets and box cutters.



SHARPTON: It`s been a rough summer for Republican presidential candidate
Scott Walker. Once considered a clear front-runner, Walker is now way
behind outsiders like Donald Trump and Ben Carson. So Walker is trying for
a makeover.


a guy from -- got a wife and two kids, happen to have a Harley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: But on the other hand, what is aggressively
normal about a career politician, which is what you are?

WALKER: Public servant. I worked my way through college --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Not what Donald Trump says?

WALTER: No. I mean, think about this, a career politician in my mind is
somebody who`s been in Congress for 25 years.


SHARPTON: There`s nothing wrong with calling yourself a public servant,
but for Scott Walker, it seems almost impossible to mistake his political
background. He served nine years in the Wisconsin state assembly. First
elected at the age of 25. He spent eight years as Milwaukee county
executive. And he`s in his fifth year as governor of Wisconsin, that`s
over two decades spent holding public office. Sounds like a career
politician to me.

Did Scott Walker think we wouldn`t notice he`s pretending to be something
he`s not? Nice try, but we Got You.


SHARPTON: Now to a big question in the fight for the democratic
nomination. Who can win the support of the Obama coalition? The diverse
group of voters that swept Barack Obama into office twice. Take one
example. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are both fighting for African-
American voters. Clinton`s favorability among African-Americans remains
strong, at 80 percent. Bernie Sanders is just at 23 percent in the same
group. There`s a long history behind this coalition of building and
broadening. Governor Howard Dean`s candidacy played a role in building in
it, so did Senator Moseley Braun, so did my race in 2004, all of us running
for president, working on rallying a broad coalition in the Democratic
Party. But now Bloomberg news is highlighting the role in this played by
the Reverend Jesse Jackson, in his 1984, and 1988 presidential campaigns.
Quote. "He is the visionary of the current Democratic Party in its
transition out of the 20th Century and into the 21st Century."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The White, Hispanic, the Black, the Arab, the Jew, the
women, the native American, the small farmer, the businessperson, the
environmentalist, the peace activist, the young, the old, the lesbians, the
gay, and the disabled, make up the American quilt.


SHARPTON: Now, is the civil rights icon, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and
MSNBC political analyst Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, thank you both for being



SHARPTON: Reverend Jackson, is the Democratic Party today closer to the
kind of coalition that you were envisioning back in 1984?

JACKSON: On the extent to which it seeks to mold opinion and not just
follow opinion polls, it`s moving in that direction. When Hillary Clinton
says, for example, (INAUDIBLE) could register to vote. That is a huge step
in the right direction in voters` impediments. When Bernie Sanders focus
on bailing out the banks without bailing out the homeowners, is that
inspiration that has drawn such big crowds for him.

SHARPTON: You in your message in 1984, with the Rainbow Coalition, was one
of inclusion. Today the GOP`s front-runner, Donald Trump, is pushing a
message of exclusion. He wants to deport millions of people. Is he
proposing an un-rainbow coalition?

JACKSON: Well, of sorts. I mean, he gained political traction with the
birther movement, challenging Barack Obama`s place of birth. A lot of
anger and fear among people who didn`t want to support the President in the
first place. The idea of deporting 11 million people, it would be the most
massive exodus since the time of Moses. That wouldn`t be a good thing. On
the other hand, when he speaks of the hedge funders paying their fair share
of taxes, that`s appealing. But you cannot -- seem to me, dismiss when you
have 11 people afraid they may be deported. Or when you have that kind of

SHARPTON: Dr. Dyson, what have you observed with the democratic coalition
since Reverend Jackson ran in 1984 and `88?

DYSON: Well, I think Reverend Sharpton, the fact is that there were two
choices as the -- house article makes apparent, the way of Reverend
Jackson, which broadened the Rainbow Coalition, and opened up the tent so
that more bodies could come in, because of the enormous support that
African-American and Latino and gay and lesbian and transgender people and
working class people and workers and unions, those people constituted a
majority of the populist movement that were the wind beneath Reverend
Jackson`s wings when he ran in `84, and especially in `88. Now, what we
see about the Democratic Party, it has regained its vitality in both the
elements of Bernie Sanders that Reverend Jackson spoke about, as well as
Hillary Clinton when she talks about progressive notions of race and racial

SHARPTON: I remember when you --

JACKSON: Al, do let me say that the notion was to try to recover white
males Reagan had captured. And I said the focus should not be on looking
in the rearview mirror, looking back at who was lost, but looking in the
windshield about who was there. And that was across the south, the Blacks
and students and workers in the south and because we put a lot of folks on
the South, Democrats regained the Senate and -- (INAUDIBLE) Reagan`s
popularity and so inclusion is the key to the kingdom.

SHARPTON: And part of what it was, I remember that when you ran the first
time and many of us started getting involved and then you broadened it, and
it was policy based. I was hit -- in my late 20s, but it was always
policy-based. What are the policies that would resonate now to bring in
that inclusion, that is going to be necessary to counter what`s going on in
the right-wing today?

JACKSON: Well, $500 billion trade deficit raised by Trump is real. I
mean, we`re engaged in some rather bad deals that represent threats to the
American workers. In these cities for example, there`s no clear policy.
Jobs, drugs and guns, and jobs out and mayhem. There must be some plan for
urban reconstruction. That may involve a development bank, as opposed to
for example, regular banks. People need access to capital and access to
technology and deal flow.

SHARPTON: Dr. Dyson, what do democratic candidates need to do to appeal to
the coalition to come out in big numbers and to come out and stand in line?
They did it in 2012 with President Obama in `08, what has to happen this

DYSON: Well, I think a combination of what Reverend Jackson is speaking
about in terms of what you spoke eloquently about as well, the broadening
of that tent to allow the most amount of people who are progressive,
looking for a home, not to feel homeless. And in order to do that, we have
to take advantage of the kind of voter energy that Obama generated in both
2008 and 2012. Now, he`s not on the ticket, but the ideas are there, and
the policies must be there. So I think that whoever leads the Democratic
Party, whether it`s Hillary Clinton, or Bernie Sanders, or whoever else,
you know, emerges as the front-runner, has to take decisive advantage of
that coalition.

SHARPTON: You have to turn people on, to turn people out.

JACKSON: Al, can I say, Democrats can no longer be afraid of the south.
The south can be won based upon issues of need. In this state, there are a
million people who are Medicaid eligible, 250,000 have no health insurance,
slightly more than 500,000 whites. We must not be afraid to go after the
white south. We cannot write it all at some unreachable. We must take on
the south based upon, we have a program for the south. HealthCare is a
program for the south. Affordable housing is a program for the south. And
of course opening up Cuba is a gateway to more trade. And so we must not
be afraid of this region where we are today.

SHARPTON: I want in the minute we have left, to move beyond politics. So
much focus in the last year on police-community relations and you`ve been
there. You`ve there years ago, we`ve been arrested together on the Diallo
case and others. They are the barriers of progress with police community.
How do you see that -- where do we need to bring that fight to lead to real
change and you`ve been working in terms of diversity in Silicon Valley.

JACKSON: To see that pain of police man shot in cold blood was awful pain,
to see two journalists shot while doing their reporting was awful. To see
Diallo shot for one time was awful. To see Rodney King beaten and those
who beat him walk free. We must stop the violence so the violence will
stop us. We must go another way. We learn to survive a path. We must now
learn to live together. Silicon Valley is too big and too robust and too
government dependent to be so exclusionary for women and people of color.
Twenty five top criminals, 100 of (INAUDIBLE) -- four Blacks and two
Latinos, unemployment around two percent. We must keep fighting to open up
the gates of opportunity for everybody. When we do that and choose fund
development over fund raising, we`ll all be better off.

SHARPTON: Reverend Jesse Jackson, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, thank you both
for your time tonight.

JACKSON: Thank you, sir.

DYSON: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Ahead, Dick Cheney gets even more extreme in his fight against
President Obama`s Iran deal, even warning of another 9/11. Stay with us.



propositioned that it`s a good deal, and it`s not. Yet, it will directly
lead, I believe, to an arms race in the Middle East. The Saudis, the
emirates, others, are not going to stabbed by and watch Iran acquire nukes
and not have some themselves.


SHARPTON: Dick Cheney this morning hammering the U.S. nuclear deal with
Iran. But while Cheney was fear mongering, President Obama was scoring a
major victory. Today he secured the critical 34th vote in the Senate, to
ensure Republicans can`t block the deal. This morning Secretary of State
John Kerry said that walking away from the deal would trigger dire


JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: President Obama and I are convinced
beyond any reasonable doubt that the framework that we have put forward
will get the job done.

Without this agreement, the Iranians would have several potential path ways
to a bomb. With it, they won`t have any.


SHARPTON: It`s a deal that`s gaining support. But today, former Vice
President Cheney took the scare tactics even further.


CHENEY: I think there is another possibility of 9/11. I think next time
it may involve something far deadlier than airline tickets and box cutters.
And on the agreement itself, you`re going to have, I think, rapidly to deal
with the problem, proliferation of nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
This isn`t just about Iran getting nukes.


SHARPTON: We`ve heard these alarmist warnings before and it led the
country into Iraq with disastrous results. Today the President has the
political support on Iran to move beyond that kind of thinking.

Joining me now are Nicholas Burns, former U.S. ambassador to NATO. He`s
helped rally Democrats to get behind the Iran deal, and Governor Ed
Rendell. Ambassador Burns, let me go to you first. I want to get your
reaction to Secretary Kerry warning of the perils of walking away from this

Secretary Kerry is right. There is really no alternative to this route.
What the republican critics and some of the democratic critics have been
saying is that the U.S. should walk away and sanction Iran and wait for a
better deal. It won`t happen. Because the United States has been leading
these negotiations, every one of our allies thinks this deal is fine to go
forward. If we walked away, we would lose the unity of the international
community, we would see the sanctions dissipate and really lose impact, and
we`ve see Iran without any nuclear restrictions on its nuclear program.

If we have a major step back where the Iranians would be strengthened and
we`d be weakened. So, I think it`s the strongest argument that President
Obama and Secretary Kerry have been using. I`m supporting the deal, not
because it`s perfect, it`s certainly is not. But because we have our
credibility at stake, we have a chance to freeze Iran`s program for the
next 10 to 15 years. And so, I think the deal is worth going forward on
that basis. There are some downsides and we can talk about that.

SHARPTON: Now, Governor, the White House has fought long and hard to get
the votes to secure this deal. How big a victory is this for the

FMR. GOV. ED RENDELL (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it`s a very significant
victory. It`s one of the great achievements of his time in office in
foreign policy. Look, Dick Cheney couldn`t be more wrong, Rev. He says
that this deal will trigger an arms race where the Saudis will get a bomb
et cetera. To the contrary, if we don`t do this deal and the ambassador is
right, there is no better deal to be add, it`s either this deal or no deal.
If we don`t do this deal, Iran will have a bomb within two to three years,
that will trigger an arms race. Here we`ve pretty much precluded Iran from
developing a bomb for the next 10 to 15 years. So the arms race will not
occur if the deal goes through. If the deal craters, the arms race is on,
full speed ahead.

SHARPTON: Ambassador, you know, Dick Cheney said that the President
doesn`t think that America is an exceptional nation. Listen to what he


CHENEY: As these threats grow, our capacity to deal with them is being
diminished because of the cuts to the defense budget. And because frankly
Barack Obama doesn`t believe in an exceptional America, I think he has an
ideology or world view that doesn`t fit reality. The only way to interpret
it and what his motives, he really wanted to boost Iran`s position in that
part of the world and make them the dominant force at the expense of our


SHARPTON: Now, you have said, Ambassador, that there are some shortcomings
in the deal, but don`t you think this kind of extreme statements is what
discredits the right-wing in attacking this deal?

BURNS: Well, I`m sorry to hear that. I`m sorry to hear what former Vice
President Cheney said because it`s completely inaccurate. I mean, to say
that about this president who has upheld the strength of the United States
in so many ways, is just off base. I think what we need to do going
forward, however, is to focus on what happens after the 15 years are up?
The restrictions on Iran will lapse. And so the United States and this is
really the President`s successor and the President`s successor`s successor,
two presidents from now, whether that person is a democrat or republican,
it`s going to have to have a very tough-minded policy in the Middle East.

We can start now by raising our military assistance to Israel and
expediting a new U.S. Israel military assistant agreement by reinforcing
the strength of the Gulf Arabs, I think the President should be more clear
frankly about our willingness to use military force should Iran violate the
deal and get close to a nuclear weapon. We need a container on in the
Middle East, given its activities there. President Obama can start that,
and the next two American presidents can continue it.

SHARPTON: GOP senators, Governor, weighed in on the Iran deal today.
Senator Mitch McConnell said Iran will emerge stronger from this deal.
Senator Ted Cruz said, the greatest national security threat facing America
is a nuclear Iran. And Senator Lindsey Graham said, the only reason the
Ayatollah and his henchmen aren`t dancing in the streets is they don`t
believe in dancing. They can rant all they want, but practically speaking,
is there anything Republicans can do to stop this deal, Governor?

RENDELL: No. Once the President secured the 34th democratic senator
endorsing the deal, no veto could be overridden. So whether they try to
pass legislation, removing the sanctions, the President would veto it, and
his veto would be upheld. So this deal is going to become a reality. But
for all of my friends in APAC and all supporters of Israel, and as you
know, Rev, I`m Jewish, this is a good deal for Israel too. If it wasn`t,
why would the last two heads of Mossad, which is the Israeli CIA, why would
the last two heads of Mossad endorse the deal? These are people who know
what`s going on in Iran. The Israeli intelligence is better than our
intelligence ten ways to Sunday. Why would they endorse the deal if they
didn`t think it was the best thing for Israel`s security? Senator Cruz is
right, a nuclear Iran would be the worst thing for the United States, the
worst thing for Israel. But this deal will prevent a nuclear Iran for at
least 10, maybe 15 years.

SHARPTON: Ambassador Nicholas Burns, and Governor Ed Rendell, thank you
both for your time tonight.

And tomorrow, tune into my radio show, keeping it real with Al Sharpton,
when my guest will be Secretary of State John Kerry. Check out your local
listings for air time.

Still ahead, Attorney General Loretta Lynch talks about stopping the gun
violence in this country.

But first, President Obama has been documenting his historic trip to Alaska
on social media. Check it out.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Hi, everybody, we`re at the Kenai
Fjords National Glacier Parks, and behind me is one of the most visited
glaciers in Alaska. It is spectacular as you can see. Let me give you a
little shot of what we`re looking at all across this incredible valley. It
is beautiful.



SHARPTON: Now to the fight over same-sex marriage in Kentucky. Today the
county clerk making headlines for refusing to issue gay marriage licenses
is getting support. Two other clerks in the state are standing with her.
Refusing to issue licenses to same-sex couples and GOP presidential hopeful
Mike Huckabee said, quote, "She`s showing more courage and humility than
just about any federal office holder in Washington." The clerk, Kim Davis,
has been ordered to a federal hearing tomorrow for defying the Supreme
Court`s ruling legalizing gay marriage. But as I said yesterday, you have
the right to believe what you choose, but you do not have the right to
impose those beliefs on others. We live in a democracy, not a theocracy.
We live that way for a reason. You cannot fight for anyone`s civil rights
unless you fight for everyone`s civil rights.


SHARPTON: Finally gun violence in America, right now the manhunt is on for
three alleged killers, accused of gunning down this Illinois police
officer. It comes just days after this sheriff`s deputy was gunned down at
a Texas gas station. We`ve seen too many of these senseless shootings.
And today Attorney General Loretta Lynch said the violence must end.


LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I strongly condemn these recent and
brutal police shootings in Texas and in Illinois. We have had four more
guardians slain, and frankly our hearts are broken over this. This
violence against all of us, regardless of what uniform any of us wear, has
to end.


SHARPTON: The violence does have to end. And we need to confront this
violence with the facts at hand. So far this year, 25 police officers have
been killed by gunfire. By this same time last year, 34 officers had been
gunned down. But even one death is too many. And we won`t end the
violence by distorting the facts, or playing politics with tragedy. What
we need are stricter gun laws. Today`s National Journal reports on a study
showing states with the most gun laws see the fewest gun-related deaths.
It should come as no surprise, and yet too many in this country continue to
resist change. How much senseless violence do we need to witness before we
can have sensible gun laws?

How many incidents do we have to go through where we scapegoat people that
we disagree with and try and label people that have nothing to do with the
structural change in gun laws and other issues that we need? We should not
use tragedy to score cheap points on political enemies. We ought to use
these tragedies to commit ourselves to stop these tragedies and start real
change. That`s the way we move forward in a country that protects all of
us. All Americans equally and fairly.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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