All In With Chris Hayes, Thursday, September 10th, 2015
Read the transcript from the Thursday show
Show: ALL IN with CHRIS HAYES
Date: September 10, 2015
Guest: Ben Domenech, Tara Dowdell, Bernie Sanders, David Brock>
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R-LA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He`s a narcissist.
He`s an egomaniac. The only thing he believes in is myself.
HAYES: The attacks on Donald Trump are getting louder.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Governor Jindal is
absolutely correct. That he`s not a serious candidate.
HAYES: And he`s getting it from all sides.
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Humility and the fear of the
Lord. I don`t get that impression with him.
HAYES: As the summer of Trump winds down, the growing movement to
hasten the fall of Trump.
JINDAL: It`s clear, Donald Trump`s never read the bible. The reason
we know, he`s not in the bible.
HAYES: Then, another astonishing poll for Bernie Sanders in Iowa.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I can tell
you at this point is we`re feeling pretty good.
HAYES: He joins me here tonight.
Plus, Democrats vote to give peace a chance. Senator Al Franken on
the breaking news in the Iran deal.
And is "The New York Times" out to get Hillary Clinton? That`s the
charge David Brock of Media Matters is making, and he joins me live tonight
when ALL IN starts right now.
HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.
The Republican presidential race has basically turned into a circular
firing squad with the undisputed front runner Donald J. Trump standing
smack dab in the middle -- taking fire and returning it from a growing
number of opponents.
I think it`s safe to say no one expected it to be where it is right
now. At this point, Trump`s candidacy is a run away train, to mix our
metaphors. He`s the first in the field to break 30 percent nationwide in a
new CNN/ORC poll followed by Ben Carson at 19 and Bush at 9.
Today, Bobby Jindal at the 1 percent mark in that same poll became the
latest candidate to try and throw himself across Trump`s track, with a
blistering attack that was less of a campaign speech and more of a roast
minus the booze and good humor. We`ll play you the highlights in just a
But if Jindal is picking a fight with Trump, he`s going to have to
wait in line, you see, because the Donald is already going at it with two
rivals much closer in his rearview mirror.
Yesterday, "Rolling Stone" published its new cover story on Trump
containing the following quote about Republican candidate Fiorina. Quote,
"Look at that face," he cries. "Would anyone vote for that? Can you
imagine that, the face of our next president? I mean, she`s a woman, and
I`m not supposed to say bad things, but really, folks, come on, are we
Fiorina was asked about Trump`s comment in an interview last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: What do you take that to mean? "Look at
that face. Would anyone vote for that?"
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. I have no idea. You
know, obvious -- you know, honestly, Megyn, I`m not going to spend a single
cycle wondering what Donald Trump means. Maybe, just maybe I`m getting
under his skin a little bit because I am climbing in the polls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Calling into FOX News this morning, Trump didn`t deny the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Probably I
did say something like that about Carly. I`m talking about persona, I`m
not talking about look, although when I get criticized for my hair, which
isn`t that bad. You know, you`ve seen, right? it`s not that bad.
But when I get criticized constantly by my hair, nobody does a story
about, oh, isn`t that terrible they criticized Donald Trump`s hair? The
fact is that, I probably did say that about Carly or something about, in a
jocular manner, obviously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Then there`s Trump`s new feud with Ben Carson who right now is
his closest challenger in the polls. Despite only getting a fraction of
the news coverage, taking reporters` questions before a campaign event last
night, Carson was asked about what differentiates him from the front
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARSON: Probably the biggest thing is that, you know, I realize where
my successes come from. And I don`t in any way deny my faith in God. One
of my favorite bible verses, Proverbs 22:4. It says, "My humility and the
fear of the Lord are riches and honor in life." And that`s a very big part
of who I am, humility and the fear of the Lord. I don`t get that
impression with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Responding to Carson in another interview this morning, Trump
did not pull his punches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I only hit back when I get hit. I`m a great counterpuncher.
But Ben Carson, you`re talking about his faith. Excuse me, Chris, please
go back and look at his past, go back and look at his views on abortion and
see where he stands. You talk about abortion. I mean, go back and look at
his views on abortion, where now all of a sudden he gets very low key.
I mean, frankly, he looks like -- he makes Bush look like the
Energizer bunny. He was a doctor, perhaps, you know, an OK doctor, by the
way. You can check that out, too. We did not talk about a great -- he was
an OK doctor.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He was -- I don`t know about OK doctor. He
was the first man to separate conjoined twins.
TRUMP: Now because he`s a doctor and hired one nurse he`s going to
end up being the president of the United States?
But for him to criticize me on my faith is absolutely -- and for him
to read from the Bible in his memory, it looked like he memorized it about
two minutes before he went on stage.
CUOMO: Do you think you`re more a man of faith than he is?
TRUMP: Ben Carson is not going to be the next president, that I can
He doesn`t even know me. You know why I met him, he comes to my club
in Palm Beach, OK? I have a great club Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach. He comes
to my club.
I hardly know Ben Carson. When he questions my faith and I`m a
believer, big league in God, in the Bible, and he questions my faith and
doesn`t know me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There`s so much going on there. Not to mention Chris Cuomo`s
reaction. Big league believer, we`ll talk about that.
Carson later tried to calm things down telling the "Washington Post,"
"The media frequently wants to goad people into the worst", that`s true,
"into gladiator fights, you know, and I`m not going to get into that. I`d
like to say that Trump, that the intention was not to talk to him, but
about what motivates me, if he took that as a personal attack on him, I
apologize. It was certainly not my intent."
And this brings us finally to Bobby Jindal, the current governor of
Louisiana who`s now at 0.3 percent -- 0.3 percent in the Real Clear
Politics national polling average.
Today, Jindal hit on a topic guaranteed to get him attention and a
certain cable news network seemed more than happy to give it to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TV ANCHOR: Here is the governor from Louisiana now. What will he
say? How far will he go?
JINDAL: There`s a hunger to get America back. I see it in the polls.
I like the idea of Donald Trump. And I like the show. I like the Donald
Trump act and show. It`s a lot of fun, it`s entertainment.
But here`s the problem -- Donald Trump is not a serious candidate.
He`s a narcissist. He`s an egomaniac. The only thing he believes in is
Donald Trump is shallow. He has no understanding of policy. He is
full of bluster. He has no substance.
Like all narcissists, Donald Trump is insecure and weak. He`s afraid
of being exposed. That`s why he tells us always and constantly how big and
strong and wealthy he is.
Donald Trump`s never read the Bible. The reason we know he`s never
read the Bible, he`s not in the Bible. The whole thing is set up for us to
win. Now we are flirting with nominating a non-serious, unstable,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist"
and Democratic consultant Tara Dowdell. There`s so much happening here.
So, let`s start with the Jindal thing. Before we get to the Jindal
thing, one of the most fascinating thing to me today was FOX took the whole
thing. And we`ve been trying to game out, like, what`s going on there? Is
that just a news decision? Is that`s like reading the tea leaves of this
back and forth between Trump and Ailes? Do you have opinion on that?
BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: I think my opinion is basically it`s a
balancing act. It`s a tough thing to say. I think there is a faction of
Trump support that does have a point in the sense that they are supporting
him because they believe in the policies he`s supporting or because they
want to send a message to the Republican establishment.
There`s also a portion of his support that`s essentially just, yes,
that`s a guy that`s going to give Putin what for. And I think that`s the
tough, creates a tough balance for a lot of conservative media. Not just
FOX News, but "National Review" and a number of other publications have
dealt with the rage from Trump supporters whenever they break with them.
It`s something that --
HAYES: You dealt with it personally.
DOMENECH: Yes, I have dealt with it.
HAYES: I mean, tell me -- what is that experience like?
DOMENECH: Well, it`s really, you deal with a very enraged and engaged
group of people who don`t seem particularly conservative but do seem very
passionate and anti-immigrant in terms of their priorities. It has a lot
more in common with the kind of experience you see from the Putin
represented trolls that you find on the Internet.
HAYES: That`s fascinating.
DOMENECH: As opposed to anything re resembling the political
discourse you see online or in social media. It`s a very different animal.
It`s an odd thing to see. It`s very weird.
HAYES: You know, I was watching the Jindal today thing, Tara. And
this is the second time this has been attempted. Governor Rick Perry did
it and Bobby Jindal.
And we should know. We have the lineup now for the two events, the
main event and the undercard. The undercard is going to be Pataki,
Santorum, Perry, Jindal and Lindsey graham, right? And everyone else will
be in the main stage.
Perry and Jindal, I mean, I keep thinking of that "SNL" skit with
Lovitz playing Dukakis, where he`s like, I can`t believe I`m losing to this
guy, which was like, which was like David Carvey being this total doofus,
and I`ve got to think that Perry and Jindal in particular, I mean, I don`t
like Bobby Jindal`s politics. I don`t think he`s been a good governor of
But the guy has governed a state. He run a health care system when he
was 28. He`s a freaking Rhodes Scholar.
If you sat down to him and talked about Medicaid reimbursement rates
in the state of Louisiana, he could tell you what the Medicaid rates are.
It has to drive them insane to watch this, right?
TARA DOWDELL, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Well, first of all for Bobby
Jindal, it has to be driving him nuts. The other thing is, you go to his
Web site, he has reams and reams of papers on these topics. I don`t agree
with what those white papers say, but they exist.
HAYES: Yes. That`s right.
DOWDELL: I can imagine this is probably particularly brutal for him.
But I do think this was a calculated strategy. No one`s been talking about
Bobby Jindal. Most people don`t know he`s still running at this point.
DOWDELL: So for him to get into a back and forth with Donald Trump
will actually help Bobby Jindal because he`ll at least get into the news
HAYES: OK, that has been tried before. It was tried with Governor
Perry and sort of worked briefly.
DOWDELL: It was tried with Governor Perry. But Governor Perry said
things like, I`ll challenge you to a pull-up competition. I mean, that`s
just as vacuous as anything Donald Trump said.
Some of the things he said there, he landed serious blows there. And
it was pretty witty, it was funny.
HAYES: It was, it was an insult comic shtick, but it sort of like, it
takes, you know, fight fire with fire.
DOWDELL: And he came across for the first time seemingly having some
fortitude, some, some gravitas, which no one`s ever used those terms to
describe Bobby Jindal.
DOMENECH: I think there`s one thing, and not just that he has white
papers. Unlike Donald Trump`s only white paper, he`s actually read them.
But I think this is also a situation where you`re talking about two
populist southern governors who wanted to appeal to a lot of these people
getting sucked up by Donald Trump right now, to basically trying to send a
message, hey, look, we respect your views a lot more than this guy does.
He`s somebody who is just playing to all of these different games. He`s
not someone who is serious on policy. You should be paying attention to
what we had to say.
HAYES: So Trump then responding, "Of course, Bobby Jindal did not
make the debate stage. Therefore, I`ve never met him." It was tweet one.
And tweet two, which I think it`s just the perfect distillation of
Trumpism. "I only respond to people who register more than 1 percent in
the polls. I never thought he had a chance and I`ve been proven right."
Jindal tweeting at Trump, "Real Donald Trump is having a hard time
lately and doesn`t remember we met. He wrote a check, a fool and his
Which is a good thing, but also kind of cell phone, he doesn`t
remember me and he gave me money.
DOWDELL: But Donald Trump is responding to Bobby Jindal. He`s
tweeting he`s not responding, right? And that`s the thing, no discipline.
He can`t help himself.
HAYES: Right. This is my question to you. This is the other
theoretical question here.
I was saying today as we were talking. The Trump campaign, feuds are
to the Trump campaign as gasoline is to a car. Like, it literally runs on
them. It runs on the media attention.
Someone wrote that the best model to understand Donald Trump is like
the heel in professional wrestling, which is a great point. The heel needs
to be fighting with everyone all the time. That`s part of the character.
And that`s kind of the role he`s playing.
My question is, like, is that actually calculated? Or is it just what
Tara`s saying, he can`t help himself?
DOMENECH: I think he thrives on catching beef from everybody and
getting in there in the ring and always comes out, it seems like, winning
at the end.
I think that the difficulty that Trump actually faces is one that`s a
different kind of attack. You know, Jerry Seinfeld where he talks about
how he would deal with hecklers and he would deal with them differently
than other comics. Instead of sort of getting into it with them and
getting mad, he would be sympathetic with them and sort of say, what`s
wrong? Why is tonight not working out the way you thought? Didn`t you
want to come here and laugh?
And I actually think the one person on this stage who has the
potential to do that to Trump who I think is getting under his skin is
Carly Fiorina. I think she has the ability to go up against him as a
fellow outsider, fellow nonpolitician, and basically make, you know, sort
of an extended olive branch. Donald, why are you saying these sorts of
things about women?
HAYES: That`s a good point. And I think the other thing about
Fiorina, you know, it`s -- Donald Trump said a lot of ugly things about a
lot of people. It`s not hard for him to say ugly things about women in an
ugly way as we saw with Fiorina. And, you know, this question of whether
ultimately is there going to be some straw that breaks a camel`s back in
terms of something he says, or has he shown that`s just not going to be
what ultimately brings down Donald Trump?
DOWDELL: I think that Donald Trump support is so hardened at this
point, the fact that you had to deal with his angry mob coming after you,
right? The fact that so many people have had to --
HAYES: That`s a small, group of people.
DOWDELL: That`s a group -- I think it`s small, but it`s not as small
as we think it is. I think --
HAYES: That`s a fact.
DOWDELL: As someone, who --as you well know, I was on "The
Apprentice." and to have some black women on the apprentice after all the
racist comments he made about black people and some Latinos come to me and
e-mail me about supporting him, it kind of gives me pause.
So I think that people should not discount some of the support he has.
And it has hardened. And there are a number of reasons for that. We don`t
have enough time to get into them.
But I do think when it comes to Carly Fiorina, I think she has an
advantage because she`s a woman, and I think that`s going to continue to
chip away at his -- I think it`s going to continue to push people away from
him. But I don`t think those people were already particularly attracted to
HAYES: I think that`s probably true. I also think it`s interesting,
increasingly, how he deals with Ben Carson who is in temperament literally
HAYES: If you were to take, spin around a Donald Trump personality
description and come up with Ben Carson. And it`ll be interesting to see
how that plays out.
DOMENECH: I loved him passing all sorts of recommendations on his
performance as a doctor. That was rich.
HAYES: Ben Domenech, Tara Dowdell, thank you very much.
Still to come, he`s surging the polls, and I will be joined by the man
himself. My interview with the one, the only Bernie Sanders is next.
Plus, the last attempt to block Obama`s signature Iran deal fails.
Senator Al Franken joins me to talk about the victory.
And later, is the "New York Times" out to get Hillary Clinton? That`s
what David Brock of Media Matters thinks. And he`ll be there to tell me
Those stories and more ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: We watched as refugees like this family from Syria picked
through donated clothing for something warm and dry. Mothers swaddled
their babies. Others, huddled at bus stops. Hungarian volunteers have
come to the border area to give out ponchos, food and clothing, not the
government, though. It`s still treating this as a police problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: As Europe struggles to deal with an ever growing humanitarian
crisis today, the White House announced a change in policy. The Obama
administration says the U.S. will accept at least 10,000 Syrian refugees
over the next year. And while that is a significant increase, the U.S. has
taken in about 1,600 Syrian refugees in total since Syria`s civil war began
four years ago. The effort still lags behind other countries.
Germany has said previously, it would accept about 800,000 refugees.
And part of the reason for the lag in U.S. response is a lengthy screening
process for refugees, designed to identify militants and prevent criminals
from entering the country. An average asylum seeker from Syria can expect
an 18 to 24-month wait before he or she is granted refugee status.
Yet despite those safeguards, Congressman Peter King of New York took
today`s announcement as an opportunity to raise the specter of terrorism,
issuing a statement that reads in part, "I oppose this decision. We do not
want another Boston marathon bombing."
There are so many things wrong with that statement. It`s hard to know
where to start. Not the least of which is the Boston marathon bombers
didn`t grow up anywhere near Syria.
Meanwhile, the refugee crisis is sure to be a prominent issue in the
presidential campaign. And ahead, I`ll ask one of the candidates just how
many refugees should the United States be welcoming here?
Bernie Sanders joins me next.
HAYES: For the first time, Senator Bernie Sanders is statistically
tied with Hillary Clinton in Iowa. A new poll from Quinnipiac University
showing that a 41 percent of likely Democratic Iowa caucus-goers support
Sanders compared to 40 percent who back Clinton. That`s a huge development
considering that as recently as July, the same poll showed Clinton with a
commanding 19 percentage point lead.
And Bernie Sanders isn`t just surging in Iowa. He`s also topping the
polls in New Hampshire. The latest NBC-Marist poll showing his 11
percentage points ahead of Hillary Clinton. Now, New Hampshire and Iowa
are the two states where Bernie Sanders has been concentrating his
resources so far. But today, he announced his campaign is expanding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: What we are now going to be doing is starting to put some
resources into states beyond Iowa, beyond New Hampshire, states that will
be coming up on Super Tuesday. And all I can tell you at this point is
we`re feeling pretty good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Joining me now, Vermont senator and Democratic presidential
candidate Bernie Sanders.
Senator, I`ve got to ask you about this "Times" article about a plan
"B" that various unnamed, I guess, Democratic establishment figures are
floating should Hillary Clinton, you know, crater and obviously, we can`t
have Bernie Sanders, I mean, come on, the guy can`t win in an election.
Is that -- is that a real thing that you`re encountering in any
conversation with anyone? Anything you`re hearing? Do you think that`s
basically not actually a conversation that`s happening. I`m curious.
SANDERS: I have no idea whether it is, or not, but it doesn`t matter.
What matters is that all over this country, not just in Iowa, not just in
New Hampshire, but all over this country, Chris, the message is getting
out. And people are sick and tired of seeing an economy that`s working for
the billionaires while at the same time the middle class continues to
disappear. They can`t afford to send their kids to college. Trade
policies to send our jobs abroad.
And the American people don`t want more establishment politics or
establishment economics. And we`re doing great, and we`re going to
continue to do great.
HAYES: That poll that showed you tied in Iowa, when you, I don`t
know, when you found out, maybe last night, maybe this morning, were you
SANDERS: Yes, I was.
Look, this is what I thought.
HAYES: What`s going on?
SANDERS: Well, yes, what I thought from day one is that we had a
message, which said, you know what, we`ve got to start creating a
government that works for all people, we`ve got to create millions of jobs,
we have to make public colleges and universities tuition-free. We ought to
control the outrageous increases in prescription drug costs. We have to
have pay equity for women, workers, we have to rebuild our infrastructure.
All of those ideas, I knew in my heart were going to resonate with the
American people. But I did not believe they would resonate quite so fast.
HAYES: But do they resonate with the American people? Or do they
resonate with a very small subsection of Democratic primary voters who are
liberals and they share Bernie Sanders and watching right now? Or do they
resonate more broadly?
SANDERS: Chris, don`t become an inside the beltway pundit.
HAYES: I`m not. I ask that partly tongue in cheek, Senator, you know
SANDERS: Come out to our rallies. And you know what you`re going to
find? You`re going to find thousands of working people, thousands of young
people who want to see fundamental changes in the way we do economics and
politics in this country.
And I`ll tell you something else, there is a very profound disgust in
this country at our current campaign finance system, which is allowing
billionaires to buy elections. And I don`t have, you know, I don`t have a
super PAC. And frankly, we`re going to get outspent. But I think people
appreciate we`re raising our money from small, individual contributors.
HAYES: You know, one of the things I`m not sure people recognize or
know about you, particularly knowing you in this context, is that you`re a
really excellent legislator. Whether you hate Bernie Sanders politics or
you love Bernie Sanders, somewhere in between, just as a legislator, I`ve
reported on, seen you close, work the system, get amendments in, forge
coalitions, you`ve got legislation right now to stop a big pension cut that
will be coming because of federal legislation. Legislation on a
prescription drug cut.
I guess my question is, what about executive experience? I mean,
you`re running to manage the most difficult unmanageable entity, perhaps,
in the world. No, it really is. It`s a real management task.
HAYES: Like do you feel ready to do that?
SANDERS: The answer is, I do. To the degree as you point out anybody
feels ready. Look, nobody thinks that running the United States government
today in a dysfunctional political climate with all of the enormous
problems facing us throughout the world where you have Wall Street and
corporate America exercising enormous power over the legislative process.
Nobody in their right mind, Chris, thinks this is an easy job. But I
do have legislative experience, by the way, obviously, a little bit
smaller. It was the city of Burlington. I was mayor there for eight
years. We went a long way to transform that city to make it one of the
more livable and beautiful small cities in America.
But I think the trick of running the United States executive branch is
to bring in good people, and my goal will be to bring in people who are
there to protect the interest of working families, not Wall Street, not
And I think we have the ideas about how we can make government work
for the middle class and working families, not just for the billionaires.
HAYES: You know, as I listen to you and watched your speeches, it`s
occurred to me, I would love just my personal rooting interest, partly
because I cover this and I like listening to this stuff, I love more
Democratic debates. You`re on the record saying you want -- you would be
open to them, as well. Martin O`Malley has called the system rigged that`s
produced the six debates.
Do you agree with him on that?
SANDERS: Look, all I will say is that I think the more debates, the
better. I think when you`ve got over 60 percent of the people not voting
in the last election, when many people are consciousness about what goes on
in Washington is not very strong, the idea that we have a clash of ideas,
the idea we talk about, the real issues facing the American people,
needless to say is something I believe.
You have heard me say this many, many times, Chris. That my concern
about the media, corporate media in this country is too much attention is
paid to political gossip in polls. Not enough attention paid to the needs
of working families. And the different ideas that candidates have to
address these issues.
We`ve got 51 percent of African-American kids today who are unemployed
or underemployed. We have more people living in jail -- more people in
jail than any other country on earth. What are we going to do about that?
HAYES: So, let me -- this is something that hits close to home for
me. OK? I grew up as a lefty, a liberal. I had a critique of corporate
media, of horse race politics and coverage. And now, here I am hosting a
cable news show.
SANDERS: And you think it`s great.
HAYES: No, it`s not that. It`s not that.
But this applies I think in a pretty profound way and certain ways to
your candidacy, right? I`ve discovered there`s all sorts of institutional
incentives. The very incentives that you talk about of big money, there`s
a kind of gravity in the room that pulls you towards certain things and
you`ve got to come up with strategies to avoid that gravity so you don`t
get sucked to the same place everyone else does.
HAYES: But the question for you, is what is your strategy there,
right? If you enter office day one, big money and still has a lot of
power, all of those same forces are still there.
SANDERS: Yes. Absolutely. And Chris, if you ever came out to one of
my speeches and not only would you see working people and low-income people
and people of color and young people, but this is what you would hear -- is
that no president, not Bernie Sanders or anybody else. Not the best
president in the history of the world is going to address the crises facing
the American middle class and working class unless we have a political
revolution. Unless millions of people are engaged in the political process
so that we can stand up to the billionaire class and corporate America.
I happen to have a lot of respect and affection for Barack Obama.
Biggest political mistake that he made is after his brilliant campaign in
2008, he basically said to the millions of people who supported him, thanks
for getting me elected, I will take it from here.
I will not make that mistake. If I`m elected president, trust me,
we`ll be directly involved and working with millions of people who will
tell the billionaire class their day is over, they`re not going to get it
all. They`re going to start paying their fair share off taxes. We are
going to create millions of jobs. We are going to raise the minimum wage.
Wall Street will pay a tax on speculation whether they like it or not
because millions of people now will be involved in the political process.
HAYES: All right. Let me end on this question, which we have been
asking every campaign, Democrat and Republican for president about the
Syrian refugee situation. White House today announced they`re going to
increase the cap to 10,000 Syrian refugees to bring in. We took in about
1,000 last year. Martin O`Malley has asked for 65,000.
Do you -- as a presidential candidate, do you have a number we should
be allowing into the country this year as you watch this humanitarian
SANDERS: You`re right. It is a humanitarian crisis of the worst
kind, people leaving the native homes with the shirts on their back as all
of their possessions.
I don`t think you can come up with a number because we don`t know the
dynamic and the dimension of the problem. What I do believe is Europe has
got to help address that in an equitable way. They`re working on that.
And I`ll tell you something else, I think Saudi Arabia and the United
Arab Emirates. They`ve got address, and the United States does as well --
you`ve got a worldwide problem, we can`t turn our backs and we`ve got to
solve this problem in a fair and equitable way.
HAYES: All right. We will maybe follow up with you for a number or
your office. I want to say happy birthday, my understanding was two days
ago. You don`t look a day over 50.
SANDERS: All right. See you -- you`ve got a career in politics.
Keep that up, Chris.
HAYES: Thank you, senator. I really appreciate it.
HAYES: All right, still to come, a big day for President Obama`s key
policy initiative. I`ll talk to Senator Al Franken who voted against the
Republican-led attempt to kill the Iran deal. Stay with us.
HAYES: Today, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo proposed a $15 an hour
minimum wage statewide for fast food workers. His proposal comes after a
state wage board examines the issue and recommend the higher wage be phased
in for New York City fast food workers by 2018 and across the state by
It also comes after a long campaign of activism to raise the rate.
The significant raise, up from New York`s current minimum wage of $8.75 an
hour also marks a shift for Governor Cuomo who in his state of the state
address earlier this year proposed about $11 an hour.
Today, the governor with the support of Vice President Biden before a
pro-union crowd proposed the wage hike to $15 an hour which would be the
highest statewide wage in the country if adopted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CUOMOR, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: A minimum wage of $8.75 is not a
minimum wage in the state of New York at all. If you work full-time, you
shouldn`t have to choose between paying the rent and buying food.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To make this
resurgent permanent, we need to address the single biggest issue facing not
just individuals but our entire economy, and that`s stagnant wages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: That line there, that will probably do a good job of keeping
the Biden for president speculation spinning. Also, I will say, I have
critical of Governor Cuomo for some of his policies, but this is, this is
impressive and it is not without political risks. And in the ongoing feud
between Governor Cuomo and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, it`s also
something the mayor can
support. And today, he did.
HAYES: Well, today, today became official. Senate Democrats
president his biggest foreign policy victory yet clearing the way for the
historic nuclear Iran deal to go into effect.
As 42 Democrats blocked a bill that would`ve torpedoed the six-nation
nuclear accord the administration says will prevent Iran from acquiring
nuclear weapons. Today`s filibuster essentially ends a years long effort
to kill that agreement and avoids a veto showdown between the president and
congress that many thought was inevitable just a few weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NEVADA: People around the world should know that
today`s outcome was clear, decisive and final. There`s now no doubt
that congress of the United States will allow this historic agreement to go
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: With me now is Senator Al Franken, Democrat from Minnesota,
the 42 Democrats who voted to block the resolution of disapproval earlier
Senator, put this in context, I mean, how big of a deal is what
happened today to finally, essentially, legislatively block efforts to undo
or disrupt the
nuclear deal with Iran?
SEN. AL FRANKEN, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, I think that would have been a
terrible thing to do. And that`s why I voted against the -- what basically
Republicans are trying to do, and a couple of Democrats, as well.
This deal is the most effective and realistic option that we had to
make sure that Iran doesn`t get a nuclear weapon or everything we can do to
make sure they don`t get a nuclear weapon in the next 15 years and beyond.
And I did not hear from the opponents of the bill any real rational
alternative to this deal.
You know, sometimes they would say, well, we could reject it and get a
better deal. But I talked to the ambassadors and other diplomats from the
other P5+1 countries and they all said that we couldn`t go back to the
table and that the sanctions would erode and maybe completely unravel. And
that just wasn`t a realistic option.
HAYES: You are one of a number of Senators who are Jewish. And that
doesn`t seem particularly...
FRANKEN: I am? Yes, I am.
HAYES: ...germane and not something I would usually lead with in a
FRANKEN: Yeah, that`s...
HAYES: ...except for the fact, the coverage of this really has
focused, in a way that I sometimes find a little odd, or bizarre or even
uncomfortable about, you know, Jewish members of congress. The Times today
running a graph with where people were and whether they were Jewish, or
not. Did you feel any like particular spiritual emotional anguish based on
your faith or about your Jewish roots in
trying to make up your mind on this?
FRANKEN: Well, I am Jewish. And, you know, I have a, you know, I`m a
big supporter of the state of Israel. And I felt that this was in the
security interests of Israel. I feel it`s in the security interest of the
And I talked to a lot of people in coming to this decision, including
friends of Israel, who were on both sides of this. And I know that, you
know, the former heads of the security agencies in Israel were -- many of
them were in favor of this
deal. So -- but, you know, a lot, I believe that a large majority of the
Jewish members in both the House and the Senate came to the same conclusion
HAYES: There`s a little bit of a controversy right now about the
debates in the campaign. And it`s something that as a Democrat and someone
who cares about the future of the party seems important, how many debates
will there be and under
what circumstances, do you feel that six is number at the current amount of
debates are enough? Should there be more? Something you`ve been
FRANKEN: Not really.
But, you know, I think that as this campaign go goes on, there will --
you know, we`ll see what the need for debates are. You know, obviously, I
longer primary campaign goes on for the nomination, probably, you would add
debates. If it looks like 2008 or something like that, then probably that
would happen, I would imagine.
HAYES: I have to ask you this question, you have turned away from a
of comedy to be a United States Senator, a very effective one, a thoughtful
and serious one. Is there some part of you that wants to relapse as you
watch the Donald Trump phenomenon unfold? Are you sort of secretly writing
jokes that you`re sending to other comedians? Do you feel the instincts to
FRANKEN: You know, I think it`s -- I think the comedians are going to
do this. And I think that there will be plenty of that. And there already
has been. So, no, I`m really focused on the work before the senate.
That`s my job. And it`s the best job I`ve ever had.
HAYES: all right. Senator Al Franken, it`s really a pleasure, thank
much for joining me.
FRANKEN: Thank you.
HAYES: We should take note The New York Times article I asked Senator
Al Franken about earlier appears to have been changed. The inofgraphic no
longer notes whether or not the Democratic Senators who are against the
Iran deal are Jewish, or not.
Coming up, I`ll talk to David Brock about his new book that alleges he
has proof of a bias in the New York Times against Hillary Clinton. Stay
HAYES: You may recall this moment when presidential candidate Donald
Trump took the stage at yesterday`s anti-Iran deal rally.
Yes, that was Donald Trump entering the stage to a rally filled with
Apocalyptic rhetoric to REM`s "It`s the End of the World as We Know it and
I Feel Fine." And his use of that prompted this response to REM, "while we
do not authorize or condone the use of our music at this political event
and do ask that these candidates cease and desist from doing so, let us
remember, there are things greater of greater importance at stake here.
The media and the American voter should focus on the bigger picture, not
allow grandstanding politicians to distract us from the pressing issues of
the day and of the current presidential campaign."
Oh, but there`s more, the band`s lead singer was quoted as venting a
bit beyond that statement, "go blank yourselves, the lot of you," Stipe
reportedly said in a quote passed along by band member Mike Mills. "You
sad, attention grabbing, power hungry little men. Do not use our music or
my voice for your moronic charade of a campaign."
Mills added in a tweet, "personally, I think the orange clown will do
anything for attention. I hate giving it to him."
Ah, the conundrum.
HAYES: One of the most powerful and influential media outlets in the
United States, perhaps the most powerful and influential, the New York
Times and one of the most prominent advocates for the Democratic
presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton are now engaging in open warfare.
The advocate in question is Media Matters founder, one-time Clinton
antagonist David Brock, who in a book out next week argues The Times, which
has been aggressive in covering Clinton`s use of a private email server as
secretary of state has been turned into, quote, megaphone for conservative
propaganda against Clinton.
Adding that, quote, as it concerns Clinton coverage, The Times will
have a special place in hell.
Brock singles out Times senior politics editor and former Washington
bureau chief Carolyn Ryan for particular criticism citing unnamed newsroom
claim Ryan has skewed coverage out of a desire to take Clinton down.
Times reporters dispute Brock`s claim, including political reporter
Amy Chozick who covers Clinton for The Times and who told Politico that
Ryan is, quote, a fair-minded, inspiring, and brilliant editor who has
never shown even a hint of bias for or against any candidate we cover.
In a statement to All In, The Times, which endorsed Clinton for
president in 2008, had this to say, "David Brock is an opportunist and a
partisan who specializes in personal attacks. His partisanship has led him
to lash out at some of our aggressive coverage of important political
figures, and it`s unsurprising he`s now turned personal. He`s wrong on all
Well, I bet you`d like to know what David Brock has to say to that.
And you`re in luck.
When we come back, my interview with David Brock about his claim, the
paper of record is out to get Hillary Clinton. Stay with us.
HAYES: Joining me now, David Brock, author of Killing the Messenger,
the right wing plot to derail Hillary Clinton hijacked her government, in
which Brock claims the New York Times has become, quote, a megaphone for
conservative propaganda against Hillary Clinton.
All right, as far as I can tell, there are two kinds of statements
issued by the press shop of the New York Times. Statements about everyone
in the world and statements about David Brock.
They`re really, I mean, that is very strong language.
DAVID BROCK, KILLING THE MESSENGER: Sure.
HAYES: They basically think you are a hatchet man, and you`re going
after their people because you have an agenda.
What`s your response to that?
BROCK: Well, my response is, yeah, I`m a Hillary Clinton advocate and
supporter. But that doesn`t mean, at all, that my facts are wrong. And I
lay out a detailed case in this book about an institutional bias against
the Clintons by the
New York Times.
You have to start with Benghazi, okay, a failed investigation. Even
Republicans investigating it find nothing. So Republican operatives collude
with the New York Times to create this e-mail scandal. And let me tell you
why. I think you may have mentioned it. It`s a brilliant stroke because
this is a liberal paper, right? And it`s the gold standard and it`s the
newspaper of record. So it`s the perfect host body for the anti-Clinton
HAYES: A lot of this hinges--
BROCK: Let me just say, I know this is counterintuitive, particularly
HAYES: No, no. It`s not that.
BROCK: I just wanted to get into some examples. Go ahead.
BROCK: Okay, look. Let me take three.
First, the first e-mail story on the personal use of e-mail. It says
that she may have broken rules in the subhead, okay. Now, the relevant
statute cited is passed after the secretary leaves office. It doesn`t,
okay. And the public editor of the Times, not David Brock, says the story`s
HAYES: Right. All right.
BROCK: Number two. Republican operative Peter Schweizer. You remember
him? He has this book out. The Times does some kind of deal with him that a
lot of people, even in their newsroom thinks is unusual. They never
disclose the terms of
it, to piggyback off his reporting.
HAYES: This is the book on the --
BROCK: And they run a big story saying Hillary Clinton did a favor
for a Clinton Foundation donor in the sale of a Uranium company to Russia.
It turns out many federal agencies had to approve this, not just the State
Department. She wasn`t involved. And so, you`ve got another problematic
And three, the big one that people I`m sure are familiar with is the
story where they say they put Hillary Clinton and criminal referral in a
headline. Now, nobody would want that to happen to them. And it turns out
there is no criminal referral. She`s not the subject of any investigation.
They have embarrassing walkback and then, again --
HAYES: Okay. So you`ve -- let`s say, I think, for the sake of
debating time here.
HAYES: I will concede those are three stories with problems. Even
though I think two of them more than one.
HAYES: There seems to be a strong case and a weak case here.
The weak case, which I think is plausible is that there`s an interest
in seeing the front runner being in a competitive race.
There is a special journalistic incentive to someone as high status,
formidable as Hillary Clinton. And that can lead to overreach, it could
lead to mistakes.
HAYES: But, that`s not the case you`re making.
The strong case that you`re making is that there`s actually like an
institutional vendetta against Hillary Clinton that somehow suffuses the
Ethernet network at the New York Times.
That sounds conspiratorial to me. I don`t even understand how that`s
You see what I`m saying?
BROCK: Right. I do. I do.
First of all, you`ve got a pattern. I think you`ve got more than three
I could go back two years to a Clinton Foundation story.
HAYES: But isn`t that part of a larger thing? Like, in the case of
everyone was running nonsense Benghazi stories. I remember networks that--
BROCK: But the New York Times has led this, and it`s been
particularly damaging, it`s led the charge on this. Even in the last month,
70% of their stories and columns have been about this e-mail deal when
Hillary Clinton is out talking
about issues that people really care about. And there`s much less coverage
So let me go back to one point.
BROCK: You raised Carolyn Ryan and I tell the story in the book that
in this first e-mail story, Nick Merrill, the spokesman for Hillary Clinton
gives a very lengthy reply to the paper before it runs that would knock
down, take the wind out of their sails. And the editor, Carolyn Ryan
defends the decision to cut that down to a very short...
HAYES: But we always do that.
BROCK: She knows it`s a lie. That`s a prejudgment. And I think --
yes, she knows the statement`s a lie. And the Clintons are just liars. Now,
I think that`s an unprofessional error in judgment and it does show a bias.
HAYES: And you know this because of sources in the newsroom?
BROCK: That`s right. Yeah.
HAYES: So you`re saying that you have sources in the newsroom that
are coming to you and saying these things are going on?
BROCK: Sure, absolutely. Yeah, that`s right.
HAYES: We should trust that?
BROCK: Yep. I mean look, I`ve talked to some today. And listen,
nobody`s defending the coverage. There`s a lot of finger pointing going on
in the newsroom and one of the reporters, Michael Schmidt who`s led the
charge is now being called a rogue and a cowboy. So there`s a lot of finger
pointing. But nobody`s defending the coverage.
And back to, you know, why this is. So, you`re right that there`s
careerism and opportunism here, and that Hillary is a big target. But,
look, people say, well, Carolyn Ryan and some others are just as tough on
all the candidates. But look, Jeb Bush has an e-mail problem that`s been
discussed in the press. Turning over only a certain number of e-mails.
HAYES: The Times has written about it.
BROCK: On page 814.
HAYES: Pages. We`re in the post-page age.
Let me ask you this, is there a particular way out of this, do you
HAYES: The cynical interpretation is that you`re working the refs.
What do you want to see happen?
BROCK: Well, I`d like to see better coverage in The Times. I don`t
know if that`s going to happen.
From my point of view, it seems to me, and Media Matters has been on
this for months, that they weren`t going to stop. And I don`t know if this
is going to stop them. But I`m just trying to open a conversation and a
dialogue about this and have a real conversation about what the heck is
going on in that place.
HAYES: We should note you started this a year ago before a lot of
these stories came out.
David Brock, thanks for coming.
BROCK: Thanks very much.
HAYES: That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts
Good evening Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
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