Skip navigation

'The Rachel Maddow Show' for Monday, September 14th, 2015

Read the transcript to the Monday show

Date: September 14, 2015
Guest: Katie Packer Gage, Rasheen Aldridge

ARI MELBER, MSNBC GUEST HOST: Good evening. Thank you, Chris.

Rachel has a night off.

Tonight, we`re covering big news in the Bernie Sanders campaign, the
release of the long-awaited report on policing in Ferguson, Missouri.

And the biggest thing, however, happening in presidential politics in
the last hour, as you may know by now, and the biggest crowd for any
Republican this past week was the huge Trump rally in Dallas. We`re
talking 20,000 people at the American Airlines Center. That`s the giant
arena where the NBA`s Mavericks play.

And Trump spoke with his characteristic improvisation. He was
riffing about today`s news that Arnold Schwarzenegger will replace him on
"The Apprentice" and what the scaffolding will even look like at his
inauguration next year.

And he called out his opponents by name. Even sassing Bush and Rubio
about a new Trump lead in some polls in Florida. He also joked about his
penchant for controversial comments.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to say, we`re going
to have so many victories that at some point they`re just going to be
coming out of your ears.


Now, I have to be careful what I say about coming out of somebody`s
ears. I have to be careful!


Nose, ears, eyes, those are the only places I`m talking about. The

We`re winning in Florida. Think of it. You have Jeb Bush, governor
of Florida, you have a sitting senator in Florida, Marco Rubio. And the
poll comes out the other day, Trump is leading in Florida.


Can you imagine? Big lead.

How about this? Have you ever heard of the great state of Texas?


Leading in Texas. How does that happen?

I`m surging with women. Can you believe it?


I have such respect for women. I cherish women. I am going to take
such good care of women`s health care issues, you won`t even believe it.
But I`m surging with women.


MELBER: Now, whether or not you believe that and whether or not you
think Trump gets too much coverage or gets a free pass for too many
questionable statements, there is no denying as a factual matter right now
his polling is only improving as the fall campaign season arrives. He has
a 13-point lead in today`s new national "Washington Post"/ABC poll. Jeb
Bush is officially in non-establishment territory right there down at about
7 percent.

And then there is no national primary, so sometimes the more relevant
metric is the state polls. Trump leads in New Hampshire on that score.
Leads in Iowa according to an Internet poll of Iowa Republicans from CBS
News and YouGov. Also New Hampshire and South Carolina in that same web

Trump always sounds like he is the top dog. But if you look at this,
if you listen tonight, there is a larger share of Republican voters and
leaders who seem to really be treating him now as the frontrunner. That
was evident in tonight`s event in deep-red Texas. That is the Trump show
as it stands.

There is also, though, as we mentioned, big news on the Democratic
side tonight. Hillary Clinton remains still, to many, the presumed
frontrunner. But that new round of polls have brought good news for Trump
have brought some worrying news for her. As she does remain in the number
one spot nationally among Democrats, that`s the same "Washington Post"

But her lead is slipping particularly among women voters. In July,
71 percent of left-leaning female voters said they would vote for Clinton.
It wasn`t seen as a surprise then. Look today, the proportion has dropped
to 42 percent.

Securing the female vote has been one of the lynchpins of her
campaign strategy. Over the last few days she is headlining Women for
Hillary events in New Hampshire, in Wisconsin, and she had one today in
Iowa. But in then in those same polls we mentioned, CBS News web surveys,
you see her losing to Bernie Sanders in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

Now sure, it is early and polls are just one way of determining a
candidate`s status in the race. But the energy in this race, according to
many on the ground, also seems to be moving towards Bernie Sanders.

Tonight, this is just a short time ago, he spoke to a huge crowd in
Manassas, Virginia.




What a great turnout. Four and a half months ago we began this
campaign, and some of the media were saying, well, you know, you got the
senator from a small state. He is a fringe candidate because nobody in
America really thinks that the American people are prepared to take on the
billionaire class.


Well, it turns out that in Virginia, in the West Coast, in the
Midwest, in New England, it turns out people are prepared to take on the
billionaire class.



SANDERS: Bernie Sanders in Virginia tonight sounding confident.
Now, the Bernie Sanders for president campaign is hiring new staff.
They`re actively looking to hire campaign coordinators for when? Well, for
Super Tuesday states. That`s on March 1st. Candidates must have a good
sense of humor and a strong commitment to the ideals of the Bernie 2016

So, Bernie Sanders right now actively bulking up his campaign
infrastructure for a long de delegate hunt out to Super Tuesday and he`s
going to places around the country that Democratic candidates for president
often wouldn`t go, especially this early.

Before that event tonight in Manassas, he spoke to a crowd today of
12,000 people at Liberty University in Virginia. If you follow politics,
you`ll remember that name. That is the university, of course, founded by
the famed televangelist Jerry Falwell.

And Bernie went there today to deliver his message.


SANDERS: I believe in women`s rights.


And the right of a woman to control her own body.


I believe in gay rights and gay marriage.



MELBER: The applause you could hear on that tape came mostly from a
very small group of Bernie Sanders supporters that trekked out to Liberty
and were there in the front of the very large auditorium.

Sanders in his remarks today knew he was reaching out to a
predominantly unreceptive audience. But, nonetheless, he tried to bridge
the gap, positioning his well-known economic populism within a religious


SANDERS: I say this as somebody whose voice is hoarse because I have
given dozens of speeches in the last few months.

It is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. I was in
Greensboro, North Carolina, just last night.

All right. We had 9,000 people out. Mostly they agreed with me.
And tonight, we`re going to be in Manassas and have thousands out and they
agree with me. That`s not hard to do.

But it is harder but not less important for us to try and communicate
with those who do not agree with us on every issue.



MELBER: That is what Bernie Sanders looked like on offense today.

Now, many Clinton backers are worried that she seems something more
like stuck in neutral. Campaign aides calling Iowa backers, reassuring
them that they have a long-term strategy. That`s according to a "BuzzFeed"
news report.

But Clinton herself is striking more asserted notes on the trail.
She even debuted her own SNL style impression of Donald Trump on the trail


Trump is entertaining. I have to tell you. I really do. I really do find
it entertaining.

And, you know, I kind of wish I had that same sort of mentality like,
oh, listen, I don`t need to tell you anything. When I get there, peace
will be breaking out everywhere. Prosperity will be raining down upon you.
We will have the new age.

Well, I would like to do that. But I don`t think that`s how a great
democracy makes its decisions about who is going to lead us.


MELBER: Joining us now is E.J. Dionne, columnist for "The Washington
Post" and MSNBC contributor.

Good evening to you.

And what effect are we seeing in the Trump and Bernie surges on the
rest of the field, particularly Hillary?


I mean, tonight, you saw a really interesting contrast. There are a
lot of people who say, well, Trump and Bernie are both kind of the same.
They`re both outside of protest candidates.

Well, here you had Donald Trump who spent like the first half-hour of
his speech talking about himself, talking about his contract and Arnold
Schwarzenegger taking his old job, all that stuff.

Then you had Bernie Sanders go to Liberty University. He quotes the
Prophet Amos, the Gospel of Matthew, talking about wanting to treat others
the way they treat you. It was a totally different thing.

So, they may both be drawing angry people, people mad about the
status quo, but they`re very different candidates.

And I thought what Bernie did today was really a great thing. I
think the proposition he laid out there that people should talk to those
they disagree with was very good and good for those Liberty University
kids, probably most of whom are staunch Republicans, for giving him a
polite and sometimes enthusiastic response.

And the last thing about what Bernie did is, this is a message --
Bernie is Jewish. This is a message that a lot of progressive Christians
have been giving for a long time, which is -- look, there are disagreements
on abortion and disagreements on gay rights but there ought to be more
consensus on issues of social justice and economic justice and inequality.
I`m not sure he converted any Republicans there, but I suspect he got them
thinking about issues that they didn`t necessarily think about all the

MELBER: Yes. I mean, one of the other things Donald Trump said
today, in somewhat of a critique of the press, was he said he has to keep
revising his speech because he`s always carried live on national television
which none of the other candidates he claims that ever happens to.

Bernie Sanders has a pretty regular economic stump speech. What he
did today, though, was seeded as we showed, with some of that scripture and
some of that moral argument. Do you think that worked for him with this
crowd? Or was he using this opportunity in civil discourse, as you say, to
try to speak to persuadables beyond Liberty University?

DIONNE: Well, first of all, Bernie Sanders knows he doesn`t run
simultaneously on two cable networks the way Donald Trump does. So, this
is a genuinely interesting thing to do that clearly got some news coverage.
I thought he did do some interesting riffs here.

The one that grabbed me the most was when he talked about family
values, noted that he has seven grandkids, that he believes in family
values. But then he said basically, if you believe in family values,
shouldn`t you be for family leave, which every major rich country in the
world has except us?

And that`s a kind of argument that I think more people need to make
to religious audiences. Because I think, you know, as a gut issue, I think
most people think that new parents ought to spend time with their kids.
That`s not a liberal issue. And I think Bernie made it sound not like a
liberal issue but like a consensus and a compassion issue and a family

MELBER: What does it say to you when you think about whatever the
so-called conservative religious vote is, what does it say that Donald
Trump seems to be doing just fine among those voters at this point?

DIONNE: Donald Trump is getting a share of almost every Republican
constituency, including religious people. He is not doing exceptionally
well. He is not doing exceptionally badly.

But I think when you look at Ben Carson and why he has climbed in the
polls, I think he is kind of the alternative for Trump among conservatives
looking for an outsider because he is a genuinely and deeply religious man,
you know, where Trump is flamboyant and full of himself, the Ben Carson is
quiet and thoughtful looking, even though he sometimes says some crazy
things about President Obama and Obamacare. It`s a real contrast.

So, I think as the campaign goes down the road, you`re going to see
Trump doing not as well with religious conservatives and Carson doing
better. I think that`s that competition. Trump knows it`s there which is
why probably he started taking shots at Ben Carson.

MELBER: He certainly has. We`ll actually be covering that more
later tonight in the ramp up to Wednesday. Carson and Trump, of course,
exchanging more words.

E.J. Dionne from MSNBC, as well as "The Washington Post" -- thanks
for your time.

DIONNE: So good to be with you. Thanks.

MELBER: Great. Appreciate it.

And a programming note: Bernie Sanders will be Rachel`s guest right
here on Thursday night. That`s a conversation you don`t want to miss
between the two of them.

We have lots more ahead, including the exclusive interview with a
woman who helped two murderers escape from prison.

And the craziest of the day which I promise has nothing to do, I
promise, has nothing to do with Donald Trump.

We have a big show tonight. So please stay with us.


MELBER: What could actually stop Donald Trump? How do you stop the
seemingly unstoppable Republican frontrunner? That is the question that
his rivals are facing in a debate this week. And we`re going to take a
close look at some real answers. That`s just ahead.



TRUMP: I`m watching television, and they said, Trump is surging with
women. I said, really, that`s amazing. You know, it`s incredible. I make
like statements -- Carly has given me a little bit of a hard time, even
though her poll numbers are horrible.

Look, I like Carly, and I like Ben, and I like many of the people
that I`m running against. I mean, many of these people are terrific

But nobody is going to be able to do the job that I`m going to do.
Nobody. They won`t. They won`t.


MELBER: Donald Trump speaking tonight at that large rally in Dallas.
That was just within the last hour. Trump has been sparring with his
rivals Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson.

And while he says they`re not surging, we do have evidence to the
contrary tonight. More than that in a minute.

Here is the thing about Trump`s insults. Throughout this campaign,
he has found ways to either single out Jeb Bush, his establishment foil, or
punch down at these truly marginal candidates so he`d knock people like
Lindsey Graham and Rick Perry. You could call them sort of the 1
percenters because they`re literally landing at 1 percent in the polls.

But that is changing in terms of Trump`s style. He`s now picking
fights with people who are not only surging but people who, unlike Jeb, are
improving in the polls and appeal to voters in this conservative anti-
Washington lane that Trump wants to own.

So, that`s what`s so politically notable about his new attacks on a
man on Trump`s heels in Iowa there, Dr. Ben Carson, as well as Trump`s
sexist, even withering remarks about the only Republican to move up onto
the main debate stage this week, Carly Fiorina. Trump`s attack on Carly
began last week when "Rolling Stone" published an article quoting him
saying that Fiorina`s face could never be the face of a president.

You have probably heard about that one because Trump faced non-stop
criticism for it since the article was published. And just like his damage
control after attacking Megyn Kelly, Trump is quick to explain that anyone
who thinks these new remarks are sexist is just misinterpreting him.


STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: A story out today in "Rolling Stone,"
apparently a fellow by the name of Paul Solotaroff, followed you around for
a couple of days and said -- he writes that after the rally in New
Hampshire you all were watching the TV around the conference table on the
airplane when you said this looking at Carly Fiorina on the TV, said, "Look
at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face
of our next president? I mean, she`s a woman. I`m not supposed to say bad
things, but really folks, come on. Are we serious?"

So that`s what they`re quoting you as saying. What would you like to
say about that?

TRUMP (via telephone): Probably I did say something like that about
Carly. I`m talking about persona. I`m not talking about look. Although
when I get criticized for my hair, which isn`t that bad, you know, you`ve
seen me, right? It`s not that bad.

But when I get criticized constantly about my hair, nobody does the
story about, oh, isn`t that terrible, they criticized Donald Trump`s hair.

The fact is that I probably did say that about Carly or something
about -- in a jocular manner, obviously.

JOY BEHAR, TV HOST: Don`t hang up when I do this, because you talked
about Carly Fiorina in "Rolling Stone" magazine. You said, "Look at that
face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that the face of our
next president?"

Are you making fun of her looks, Donald, because I know you don`t
like it --

TRUMP: No. I`m talking about the persona.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: "Look at that face. Why would anyone vote
for that? Can you imagine that`s the face of our next president? I mean,
she`s a woman. I`m not supposed to say bad things. But really, folks,
come on, are we serious?"

That`s not about persona.

TRUMP: I`m talking persona.

CUOMO: How? Where is persona in there?


TRUMP: I know that`s OK if you talk about my hair.

CUOMO: That`s tit for tat.

TRUMP: By the way, I think you know me well enough, it is my hair.


MELBER: That was all last week. But this was still an issue as of


TV HOST: Let me ask you as a business question, not a -- not a
political correctness politics question. How would you expect the human
see resources department to handle that if an executive at your company was
heard saying that about a woman employee? What would you --

TRUMP: Well, first of all, I was talking about her persona. She had
tremendously -- you could call it bad luck. You could call it she did a
bad job, but Hewlett-Packard was a disaster. To be honest with you, the
problem we have is we`re so politically correct that we can`t get out of
our way. So, people make statements and all of a sudden the statements,
that`s a big deal.


MELBER: This is, of course, the Trump M.O. We know this. He hurls
attention-grabbing insult potentially demeaning someone`s gender or
identity, who knows what, and then he says people misunderstood him. After
all that he will go in and impugn any remaining critics saying, hey,
everyone is too sensitive nowadays and being nice is overrated.


TRUMP: Number one, I think I am a nice person. I help people. A
woman came up to me, she said to me, are you nice enough to be president?
I said, I hope I am. I think I`m a nice person. I have great

But I think this is going to be an election based on competence and -
- we need competence. Enough with the niceness. This country is in bad
trouble. We need competence.

And I have said it to a lot of people, Monica. This is going to be
an election on competence. It`s enough with the nice.


MELBER: Enough with the nice.

Well, you know who agrees with that today?

Carly Fiorina. Her super PAC just released an ad seizing on Trump`s
remarks and taking him on.


face. And look at all of your faces. The face of leadership. The face of
leadership in our party, the party of women`s suffrage. We are not a
special interest group. We are the majority of the nation.


This is the face of a 61-year-old woman. I am proud of every year
and every wrinkle.


MELBER: Are we seeing a prelude to what is to come this week in the

Well, joining us now is Katie Packer Gage. She was deputy campaign
manager of Mitt Romney`s campaign as a political strategist.

Good evening to you.


MELBER: Doing well.

I got to tell you. That`s a pretty good ad. Your thoughts on the ad
and what Carly is doing going into Wednesday`s debate?

GAGE: Well, I think Carly has struck just the right tone. You know,
I am not in a camp with any of the candidates, but I think Carly`s approach
has been great.

This is a woman who is very, very accomplished by any count. She is
a cancer survivor. She is a woman who lost a child I believe to a drug
overdose. I mean, she has been through some pretty traumatic things in her
life and I think she wears her face pretty well.

And I think the notion that Donald Trump was attacking her persona by
mocking her face I think is laughable. I think Donald Trump is the one
that needs help. You know, the way he reacts to these things is textbook
Donald Trump. It`s to try to push away and try to make like he is the one
that`s being persecuted when really he is the bully in this scenario.

And I think Carly handled herself with a lot of grace and a lot of
dignity, you know, in the face of that kind of bullying.

MELBER: Based on your presentation campaign experience, how does a
campaign try to set up for its own moments in these kind of debates,
especially when there are so many candidates and they know they have
limited time. In that respect, what does Carly and Ben Carson, what`s
going on inside those campaigns?

GAGE: Well, I think Carly is definitely going to be looking for her
moment. You know, she worked very hard to, you know, fight her way into
this prime-time debate. And she found a place. I think she`s going to be
looking to introduce herself to the American people and, you know, sort of
leave a mark. And she is going to, you know, show that she can go toe-to-
toe not only with Donald Trump but with Hillary Clinton or whoever the
Democrats ultimately post up.

You know, I think all of these candidates will be trying to challenge
the very personal attacks that Donald Trump has leveled against them and
try to show that they`ve got the fight, they`ve got the energy. All of
these candidates, virtually all of these candidates are more conservative
on the issues than Donald Trump is, but, you know, right now there is, you
know, a clamoring among voters for an outsider, somebody that`s willing to
take on Washington, willing to take on the status quo.

And these candidates are going to be looking for an opportunity. You
know, but in a debate with such limited time restrictions and so many
candidates, it is going to be very, very hard.

MELBER: Do you think the way this is shaking out, though, that folks
like Carson and Fiorina who are getting some attention that they`re still
at a disadvantage because they want the lane that Trump is in. Romney was
that and he was trailing at this point in the cycle and you guys still got
the nomination. In that respect, do Bush and Rubio and Kasich still have
the natural alternative, whereas no one is going to necessarily take that
from Trump?

GAGE: Well, it`s going to be a challenge for a little while longer
because, you know, you remember, Trump is at 25 percent, 30 percent, which
means 70 percent to 75 percent of primary Republican voters aren`t with
him. But all of that support is being diluted among 15, 16 candidates.

And so, until we start to see the field winnow a little bit, we`re
going to continue to see Donald Trump as the frontrunner. It`s very, very
hard. When TV networks, with all due respect to MSNBC, are breaking --
breaking news for a Trump speech, they`re not really doing that for any of
the other candidates. So, it`s very difficult for these candidates to get
any kind of real exposure without spending millions of dollars for
television advertising, you know, while he is getting all kinds of free
advertising on his own.

So, it`s going to be a challenge for a while yet, until the field
starts to narrow a bit.

MELBER: Right. I mean, it`s something we talk about, that there is
15-odd candidates. But you forget how that makes what in a normal race
would be a tiny portion of the electorate look like the biggest lead ever.
We`ll see what happens if there are more dropouts.

Katy Packer Gage, deputy campaign manager for Romney`s 2012 race,
thank you so much.

GAGE: Thanks for having me.

MELBER: Ahead, a blockbuster report about race just a year after
those Ferguson demonstrations. We`re going to talk to one of the young
commissioners who`s trying to change the future there.

And later, a blunder Down Under?

Stay with us.


MELBER: Ladies and gentlemen, this is an onion. A giant onion, I
know. And you may know it as a fantastic ingredient for soups and main
courses. It can be chopped, diced, grilled, even deep fried. Or you can
dispense with all of that preparation and eat it like this.


MELBER: Now, tonight the act of eating raw onions in public is a big
story in politics. I don`t mean that as a metaphor. I am talking about
straight-up onion-eating.

Please, stay with us for this one.



GOV. JAY NIXON (D), MISSOURI: Today, I am pleased to introduce 16
men and women who I have appointed to serve this region and our state as
members of the Ferguson Commission. They bring to the table a rich
diversity of life experience and points of views. While they are clearly a
diverse group, they are united by the shared passion to promote
understanding, to hasten healing, to ensure equal opportunities in
education and employment and to safeguard the civil rights of all of our


MELBER: Missouri Governor Jay Nixon picked those people in the wake
of the police shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson. He asked them to go
beyond that case and look at the structural problems in policing crime and

Today, that commission released its report and we`re going to report
on its contents in a moment.

But it`s beginning with looking at why this commission was different
in the first place. From the very day of Governor Nixon`s announcement, it
didn`t actually look like a beltway commission of retirees or hacks, the
usual grouping of people who are so decades-deep into the status quo that
they are the least likely people to challenge the root causes of anything.

This was different. And that may partly be because of the grass-
roots pressure and national media scrutiny. It included law enforcement
and formal policy experts but also people beyond the establishment, new
leaders from black churches and emerging street protesters. That may be
why today`s report even introduced itself as, quote, "The People`s Report,
Not a Typical Commission Report."

That`s why the commission was co-chaired by Reverend Starsky Wilson
who spoke about his hope for fundamental change today.


for every citizen who is within the sound of our voices today and everyone
who has clicked through the report to take it seriously, to find their
place, to, sure, disagree with some things but to say that, of 189
recommendations, there are three that will change my life and will change
my child`s life, and so, I will engage in that.

So, you do the work together. You do it with people you disagree
with. You commit to stay around the table. You listen to diverse voices,
and you come to some common ground that is more than the lowest common
denominator, and then you work hard. You work really hard to make it


MELBER: Here are a few of those 189 policy recommendations. They
ask for a revision in what people, what citizens ask of police and what
standards are used for force or incarceration. They also address one of
the controversial parts of Ferguson that drew bipartisan criticism at the
time, the use of military-style weapons and tactics against public protest.
So, the commission calls for only proportional use of such materials.

Now, here are some other big recommendations. They call for
assigning the attorney general as a special prosecutor in these
controversial police use of force cases to establish a new database to
track the use of force, to eliminate incarceration for minor or non-violent
local offenses and to assign public defenders for criminally charged minors
and revise the state law on use of force against fleeing suspects which
doesn`t currently match Supreme Court precedent.

Now, while the media spotlight on Ferguson has certainly dimmed, in
many ways, today`s news, the release of this work over the past year, of
this report, is arguably just as important as anything that`s taken place
in Ferguson over the past year. This is the process, a slower one, sure,
than those protests. But this is a process that many believe can change
the community for years to come, because it includes so many people who
really are the community.

On that list is the youngest member of the Ferguson Commission, 21-
year-old Rasheen Aldridge. He led peaceful protests almost every day
following the killing of Michael Brown and says he applied to be on the
commission because he wanted young people to have their own voice.


tired of seeing themselves on TV laying down in the streets. Mike Brown
could have been any one of us.


MELBER: And joining us now tonight for an interview, Rasheen
Aldridge, Jr. committee organizer and activist, and one of the
commissioners on the Ferguson Commission.

Thanks for being here tonight.

ADRIDGE: Thanks for having me.

MELBER: In your view, what`s the most important thing coming out of
this report that you worked on?

ALDRIDGE: I think the most important thing that is coming out of
this report -- I mean, there are several things, as you know, as we look
back on what happened on August 9th, the death of Michael Brown and the
police reactions and the way the police have responded to communities for
so long. We have -- the commission has looked and seen that it`s bigger
than just that. And we understand that it`s bigger than just police

This is -- we`re talking issues that have been embedded in our
communities for too long. Issues that have been embedded in communities
across this nation, that continues to not see the same opportunity and not
see the same resources that there are in other communities.

Looking at the report, I do see several recommendations that really
excites me, several ones that like consolidating some of these municipal
courts and getting rid of some of these police departments and making them
smaller so they actually can do their job and can police the community and
not have to write tickets all day and be a collection agency, and also
looking at our youth. Our youth must thrive. There is a lot of positive
recommendations around that around looking at the way that we`re suspending
a lot of young people, looking at the way that we are accrediting our
schools, and also looking at the way young people are coming into this
world, and even having a childhood saving account.

So, it`s a lot I could say are my favorite. I mean, honestly, these
recommendations should have happening a long time ago. That`s what the
community has said. And they`re the ones that put the recommendations

MELBER: Well, one of the big takeaways, as you know, is this report
as well as the DOJ report traced the way things that are meaning to be
punishable by jail time, that is to say the government didn`t tended people
go to jail over them end up being a place that minorities end up in jail
time because of the broke arrest warrant system. You guys have proposals
about changing that.

Talk about how some of that`s already started to happen locally in

ALDRIDGE: There has been a lot of work without this Ferguson
Commission, because we understand also as a commission this isn`t the end
all be all solution of change, but a lot of recommendations that have been
put forward have been solutions and change or calling outs that people in
the community have been calling for, for a long time.

So, this recent past year we`ve seen a huge change in the way the
municipal courts in the way that they ran and the way they`re also handling
people. But we still have a long way to go.


ALDRIDGE: But the attention that has been raised around it and the
changes that have changed around Senate Bill 5 and actually digging deep in
even the commission when we first started, the attorney general sued 13
municipalities that was acting out.

So, change is happening but we understand, it`s not happening fast

MELBER: And just briefly, Rasheen, was there a lot of discord and
disagreement on the commission or not?

ALDRIDGE: Several times here and there, there was disagreement, you
know. Some people didn`t believe that this should have been a
recommendation, some people believed that this shouldn`t have been a
recommendation. But at the end of the day we had to remember this wasn`t
about us. We wasn`t called here to have a Rasheen Aldridge commission or a
Tracy Blackmon commission or Reverend Starsky commission.

This was the Ferguson Commission that had to find solutions. I mean,
had to find solutions for the people. So, at the end of the day we had to
remember this wasn`t about us. We made it happen.

It`s been difficult, but we have came a long way. We pushed through.
And with the support of all the community, thousands of volunteer hours, we
got a very healthy and people`s recommendation, I believe.

MELBER: Rasheen, thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

ALDRIDGE: Thank you.

MELBER: Ahead, the powerful NBC exclusive prison interview that
everyone has been talking about.

And later, some global politics that may be even weirder than ours.

Stay with us.


MELBER: NBC`s Matt Lauer got an exclusive one-on-one interview with
the woman at the center of the brazen prison escape in upstate New York
earlier this year. Prison employee Joyce Mitchell who pled guilty to her
role in the prison break sat down with Lauer. An amazing interview and
we`re going to have that for you, next. Don`t go anywhere.


MELBER: This past summer for several weeks in June, America was
transfixed by a manhunt. New York state police, Vermont police, the U.S.
Marshal Service, the FBI and other authorities searching desperately for
these two men, convicted murderers, David Sweat and Richard Matt, who
managed that unlikely escape from a prison in Clinton County, New York.

They used tools smuggled to them by a prison employee we learned, and
then they hacked and dug and sawed and crawled their way to freedom,
tunneling through prison walls and steam pipes. They reached a manhole
cover in the street blocks away from the prison. Now, that Hollywood-esque
escape kicked off the manhunt which lasted nearly three weeks before
Richard Matt was located and killed in a confrontation with authorities.
And two days later, David Sweat caught as well.

The intrigue with this case did not end with the prisoner`s capture
because the question remained, who helped them escape. During the search
we did learn investigators were focusing on a single prison employee in
particular, Joyce Mitchell. She had worked as a tailor at the prison. She
was arrested and now pled guilty to smuggling in the very tools that helped
that escape.

Now, rumors have been swirling in the tabloids as to why she did it?
Why did she help these two convicted murders get out? Were there threats?
Did she fall in love with one of them? Did she plan to run away with one
of them?

So many theories, and all the while, we hadn`t heard from Joyce
Mitchell herself outside of the courtroom. That is until now.

Matt Lauer sat down with Joyce Mitchell for a one-on-one interview as
she awaits her sentence.


MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: As part of the job, how close were you and how
close did you become to the inmates? Is it fair to say you also became a

JOYCE MITCHELL, PRISON EMPLOYEE: It is fair to say that.

LAUER: Was there flirtation as part of the friendship?

MITCHELL: There was.

LAUER: Did you think perhaps you were crossing some sort of a line?

MITCHELL: I was at first, but then I guess I -- I guess I got a
little too comfortable.

LAUER: David Sweat is a guy who shot a sheriff`s deputy 15 times.
So, these are two guys who committed heinous crimes.


LAUER: And these are the guys you allowed yourself to have a
friendship with.

MITCHELL: Yes. Everybody tells me I`m way too nice.

LAUER: When did they start asking you for favors?

MITCHELL: A few months before they decided to get out, they were
asking me for things.

LAUER: So what did you bring them?

MITCHELL: I would bring cookies, brownies, you know, stuff like

LAUER: And then they started asking for other things. When Richard
Matt comes to you and says, Joyce, I need a star-shaped drill bit. That`s
a lot different than cookies and brownies.


LAUER: What did you think?

MITCHELL: At first I`m like, I can`t get you that. But then he`s
like, I need it.

LAUER: For what?

MITCHELL: At first, they didn`t tell me. And then after, they did,
it was because they were going to try to escape.

LAUER: Speculation has run rampant, Joyce, that while Mr. Matt told
you he loved you, that by this point, you loved him as well.

MITCHELL: No. It was -- it started out as flirtation thing, but
that`s all it ever was. There was never any love between myself and Mr.

LAUER: At some point, in addition to bringing food and now starting
to bring the tools they would eventually use to break out of prison, there
was sexual contact between you and Richard Matt.

MITCHELL: There was never any actual sexual intercourse. Mr. Matt
had grabbed me a couple of times and kissed me. And then there was one
point where he had -- I`m sorry. He wanted me to --

LAUER: Would you like a tissue?

MITCHELL: He wanted me to perform oral sex on him, and I said no.
And when I said, no, he grabbed my head and pushed me down.

LAUER: If you can, to the best of your ability, Mrs. Mitchell, tell
me the complete list of things that you gave them.

MITCHELL: I gave them the star bit, four full-sides ax blades. And
I gave them chisel and punch. That`s all that I give them.

LAUER: That`s a lot.



MELBER: A tough discussion but fills in some of the holes in that
story that we were all following. You can see even more Matt Lauer`s
interview with Joyce Mitchell on Friday on the "Today Show".

Now, still ahead for us: the weirdest political story of the day, and
we`re not talking, I promise, about anything that Donald Trump did.

Stay with us. We`ll be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just -- I`m going to grab an outfit.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elaine is afraid of snowball.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little snowball? He runs on batteries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, George, that`s an onion.



MELBER: It is just really weird to eat an onion like an apple.
Weird enough it has been mocked on "Seinfeld."

But in Australia, the country`s top politician, Prime Minister Tony
Abbott, is known for doing just that delightfully chomping into raw onions,
skin be damned.


OFF-CAMERA: Very good?



MELBER: Very good. No tears even on that guy.

In fact, Mr. Abbott said that particular onion was, quote, "better
than any other onions I`ve eaten in a long time." Which makes you wonder,
does he eat onions like apples every day? Maybe he does.

Here he is eating another member of the onion family. This video
looks like it was shot in a weird undercover onion expose. But you can see
on the zoom he`s eating one.

Mr. Abbott`s taste in politics turn out to be as every bit of
embracing as his taste in raw snack food. He described gay marriage as,
quote, "Just a fashion of the moment." He says abortion is, quote, "the
easy way out." He`s taken similarly hard line positions on climate change
to economics.

But even putting policy aside, what has been most strike about his
time in us office is how entirely tone deaf Mr. Abbott has shown himself to
be day in, day out. He`s managed to insult on camera mind you just about
every section of Australian society, including the military.


TV ANCHOR: Tony Abbott has been called out seemingly insulting a
Queensland soldier killed in Afghanistan.

After being told about complications of the firefight, this is Mr.
Abbott`s reaction.

ABBOTT: Nah, it`s pretty obvious that -- well, sometimes (EXPLETIVE
DELETED) happens, doesn`t it?

TV ANCHOR: Mr. Abbott was then lost for words when confronted about
his comments.

ABBOTT: Look, a soldier has died and you shouldn`t be trying to turn
this into a subsequent media circus.

REPORTER: The soldiers -- I shouldn`t? I`m trying to envision of
you, your reaction to his explanation about what happened on the day and
the operation in which McKinney was killed. How does that turn you into a
media circus?

Tell me, what`s the context? If it`s out of context, what`s the
context? You`re not saying anything, Tony.

ABBOTT: I`ve given you the response you deserve.


MELBER: Damage control.

Now, this Australian prime minister is a walking highlight reel.


UINDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just survived on around $400 after I pay my
rent. I work on an adult to make ends meet.

ABBOTT: Canada probably has more involvement. No one, however
smart, however well-educated, however experienced is the suppository of all


MELBER: We`re not sure if that word means what you think it means.

Now, today Australia`s onion-eating suppository wisdom was ousted
from his own role as Australian prime minister by his own party. They
voted to replace him a more moderate leadership, and that is a headline in
and of itself. But so is the way the country reacted.

People are delighting in the end of Abbott`s onion-eating tenure
posting pictures with the hashtag, #putoutyouronions. There had been over
7,000 tweets in the past day, pictures of people putting onions out on
their front steps. Onions tied on their doors. Hanging from bicycles.
Fancy champagne glass onions, some even photoshopping pictures of an onion
head. And part of me thinks he`s going to lay off the onion for a while.

All right. That`s our show. I`m Ari Melber, sitting in for Rachel.
You can always find me on Facebook at, right there.


Good evening, Lawrence.


<Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>

Rachel Maddow Show Section Front
Add Rachel Maddow Show headlines to your news reader:

Sponsored links

Resource guide